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Thread: Buffy # 7 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

  1. #21
    Scooby Gang betta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    I could see Riley siding with the government on it to the point trying to manipulate Buffy to agree. It really might be just dumb writing. Willow's whole argument is similar. Why would the government kill them if they're powerless? How about because they can? Because it's easier to make a hit on someone weak and has a whole slew of people that wants them dead look good?

    There is, frankly, no reason whatsoever for her to be depowered to leave. She went in willingly. The other slayers are free to roam. The only reason it would be an issue is if the ultimate plan is to depower all the slayers, which is probably the case. This issue is draws major attention to the cracks in the overall premise. Why would you give a magic weapon back?
    Buffy is The Slayer, Willow a very powerful witch - and the Government know very well what they represent, so having them neutralized is a good thing (I bet they were thrilled when Buffy went to the camp voluntarily). Now, to kill someone powerless means to make martyrs, and any authority is fond of that. And they totally dismiss their cunning, of course - maybe to the point they think the Scythe is useless in their hands (and they really won't have much time to use it, since the supernatural is about to be wiped out...).

    So I think the whole thing is feasible.
    Last edited by betta; 29-05-17 at 04:19 PM.
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    * I remember Joss Whedon's saying Angel's responsible for everything Angel did in BtVS S8. I remember Joss Whedon's saying that Joss has been involved (to any significant extent) with the comics since the abortion arc in Season 9.

    I'm not invested in Season 11: I simply find it bewildering that anyone who isn't a complete Angel apologist could be okay with how post-BtVS S8 is. Season 11 manages to be worse than Season 10.

    Anyway, this is my last post in this thread: I don't care enough to expend more time and energy posting in this thread.

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    Arbiter of Canon Vampire in Rug's Avatar
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    Mike, your character bias is showing. I'm sure if it was Spike who did the whole Twilight thing you'd be okay with that and/or invent justifications for it.

    In season 8 the writers wanted to have Angel under the mask for the big moment of shock and betrayal for the reveal. They clearly wanted to be able to wipe him clean afterwards and so all the fallout of his apocalypse and the death toll was just kind of glossed over.

    People who are not necessarily Angel apologists are okay with the post season 8 story because we recognize the story for what it is. Twilight was a season long mystery that had an unrewarding payoff for some cheap drama. After it was done the writers barely looked back and neither did the characters. So the audience can just kind of shrug and go with it too. Not everyone has your massive hate-obsession with Angel. He's not the first character to nearly destroy the world and come back from it.

    You keep invoking Joss's name: what do you make of Joss deciding NOT to kill Angel off at the end of the season? Or the fact that Joss cares enough about Angel's character to demand that IDW relinquish the rights to his book?

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    Angel, Angel, Angel. Does every conversation we have have to come around to that freak? Seriously, who cares? Angel's irrelevant, like, let go @MikeB. And if you're shipper, at this point, there's only one thing left that can sink Buffy/Angel deeper than it already has and that is Faith telling Buffy the truth about "I Will Remember You". Then it's game over.

    I simply find it bewildering that anyone who isn't a complete Angel apologist could be okay with how post-BtVS S8 is.
    I'm OK with season 9 and 10 and 11. Sure,there are some things I disliked but it's not like I liked everything in the TV series so whatever. It's Buffy, it's fun - what else do you want? As to Angel - yeah, I don't care.

    Season 11 manages to be worse than Season 10.
    You trippin'. OK, I disliked the latest season 11 issue, I thought it was trash, personally, the worst issue of the season so far but compared to the worst issue of season 10? There's no comparison. And I absolutely loved season 10 but so far, they're at least equal in quality as far as I'm concerned.

    @Vampire in Rug
    In season 8 the writers wanted to have Angel under the mask for the big moment of shock and betrayal for the reveal.
    Did they? Cause', I mean, they kinda completely spoiled it right in the beginning of the season.
    Last edited by a thing of evil; 29-05-17 at 09:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post

    I haven't read it yet. I hate feeling like I'm kinda out of it with the Buffyverse, but lately I am. Needs rejuvenation.
    I'm sorry to hear that man, I'm always interested in your thoughts on the issues.

    I think season 11 has benefited from the shorter format of the season... means less filler (on the Buffy side of things anyway).

    I find the Safe Zone to be an interesting setting.

    Jordan is a pretty awesome antagonist.

    I guess I'm one of the few that likes Caliope.

    I don't think season 11 is a great book, but I think it's at least on par with season 10, and far better than the dogshit that was season 9. I do hope you get back into it, because I do enjoy reading your thoughts.

    I think the book would benefit from a new writer maybe? Someone who isn't afraid to shake things up and not play it so safe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by betta View Post
    Buffy is The Slayer, Willow a very powerful witch - and the Government know very well what they represent, so having them neutralized is a good thing (I bet they were thrilled when Buffy went to the camp voluntarily). Now, to kill someone powerless means to make martyrs, and any authority is fond of that. And they totally dismiss their cunning, of course - maybe to the point they think the Scythe is useless in their hands (and they really won't have much time to use it, since the supernatural is about to be wiped out...).

    So I think the whole thing is feasible.
    Buffy and Willow are people with a lot of enemies, human and non-human, especially Buffy. Depowering (by their own choice) and turning them out into the wild would be a perfect cover for an assassination. Why do you think Maggie tried to use demons instead of just poisoning or putting a slug in her head? If they take them out in-zone, they're martyrs. If they do it outside, it's an accident or revenge. They've already demonstrated using such machinations with the ogre guy.

    The Scythe is a magical artifact. They have to be aware of Faith and other slayers still roaming around along with other beings that could use it to do damage. I'm sure it will be a plot factor so it had to be done, but there is a large element of Comic Villiany in giving the protag everything they need to defeat you later. I mean, they could have at least had her demand it back and them reluctantly give it.

    @mikeb
    * I remember Joss Whedon's saying Angel's responsible for everything Angel did in BtVS S8. I remember Joss Whedon's saying that Joss has been involved (to any significant extent) with the comics since the abortion arc in Season 9.

    I'm not invested in Season 11: I simply find it bewildering that anyone who isn't a complete Angel apologist could be okay with how post-BtVS S8 is. Season 11 manages to be worse than Season 10.
    I think they're all crap for different reasons. If Joss wants people to hold Angel accountable, then have Angel do it. No more "influence" that's up to the reader when and how much it's affecting the character(s). No more soul/no soul crap. No hyena-possession, no magic spells, no thralls. No magic being a drug that makes your eyes go black and wear fetishwear.

    Then I want him to grow up and deal with it and tell us why the character should continue existing when anyone else would be killed. Stop compromising a character's agency and then blaming them for it. It's just a cheap way to get woe-is-me angst without earning it, without putting any work into the build-up.

    @atoe
    And if you're shipper, at this point, there's only one thing left that can sink Buffy/Angel deeper than it already has and that is Faith telling Buffy the truth about "I Will Remember You". Then it's game over.
    Like Connor? Please. I'm sure they talked about IWRY in the same off-screen conversation.
    Last edited by HardlyThere; 30-05-17 at 08:57 AM.

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    I found the talking werewolf to be pretty jarring too. But I have a few fanon theories that could explain it. Firstly, it could be a different strain on lycanthropy. Oz got around on four legs while Nina was bipedal. This was explained as them being two different species. Maybe there is a strain that can talk?

    Or maybe werewolves have been rebooted with the New Magic just like vampires now? If new vampires are immune to sunlight and can turn into bats, maybe new werewolves can talk?

    We've seen a talking werewolf once before, it was one of the unfortunate people that got mutated by Whistler's plague ball in A&F season 9. I think the aunts made some comment about how he'd be popular at a furry convention? That dude might be the origin of this new strain of lycanthropy if it's not just a general New Magic werewolves rule.

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  10. #28
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    The first theory is kind of the one I was suggesting going with, that it was a similar, 'like' species that groups as 'werewolf'. I'd never clocked the four/two leg differences, or I'd at least forgotten. Fair point about the new seed possibly creating variations too, as with the new magic. There are definitely ways to explain around it.

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    There's a talking werewolf in "Retreat" in season 8. It's not new.

    @HardlyThere
    No magic being a drug that makes your eyes go black and wear fetishwear.
    That whole Dark Willow is a separate entity idea has always been mostly fanon and it was completely disproved in Wonderland, so yeah. Also fetish-wear? Nah, come on, it's just Rack cosplay. Vampire Willow? Sure, that leather thing is pure fetish. "Welcome to the Hellmouth" Willow, the white thighs/shirt get-up? Of course, no teenager would ever put something like that on in 1997, I mean, outside of porn. As to Angel - I agree, the possessed?/not-possessed?/kinda-possessed? twilight shit was embarrassing.

    Like Connor? Please. I'm sure they talked about IWRY in the same off-screen conversation.
    Impossible. IMPOSSIBLE! Angel would never, ever come clean about that.

  12. #30
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    I don't recall the talking werewolf in season 8. If it was on of Oz's wolves, they were studying new techniques to shift back and forth from human at will, so they were operating outside of the norm anyhow. If it was mid transformation, maybe they morphed their vocal chords first?

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    Scooby Gang betta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    And if you're shipper, at this point, there's only one thing left that can sink Buffy/Angel deeper than it already has and that is Faith telling Buffy the truth about "I Will Remember You". Then it's game over.
    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Like Connor? Please. I'm sure they talked about IWRY in the same off-screen conversation.
    It's more easy to believe in the supernatural than in Buffy be unware of Connor's existence; but I very much doubt that Angel told her about the erased day. Well, I'm sure he didn't tell, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Buffy and Willow are people with a lot of enemies, human and non-human, especially Buffy. Depowering (by their own choice) and turning them out into the wild would be a perfect cover for an assassination. Why do you think Maggie tried to use demons instead of just poisoning or putting a slug in her head? If they take them out in-zone, they're martyrs. If they do it outside, it's an accident or revenge. They've already demonstrated using such machinations with the ogre guy.
    That's very true; the Government expects to get rid of the problem without having their hands dirty. But Buffy is very aware of that danger, she herself said that disepowered, she would be an easy target for her many enemies.
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    @Vampire in Rug
    I don't recall the talking werewolf in season 8.

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    Yeah, that's the scene. Monroe could transform at will, so I tend to think that he said that line of dialogue either immediately before, or mid-transformation. The timing of dialogue can always be a bit iffy in comic books -there's no way Buffy or Spider-man could spit out some of their long monologues mid-fight the way the panels often depict them doing.

    Here, Monroe went from human to wolf in the space of one panel in the time it took him to finish his sentence. In the show, I think the transformation always took a few minutes. So yeah, my fanon is that he was midway through morphing and his vocal chords were still intact.

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    Just watching End of Days (BtVS 7:21) and I realise the 'shirty' conversation between Spike and Buffy is similar to the 'tell me when we see each other again' scene from this issue. In the show Spike asks 'what does that mean?' and when Buffy doesn't give a definitive answer Spike doesn't push her, instead he cuts the conversation short and tells her to go be a hero. It feels like in the comics he wants her to go be a hero and if she actually says those ILY words out loud, she won't have the strength to leave him, so he cuts the conversation short again.

    Both scenes have a similar feel to me, with Spike putting his own emotional needs on hold for the sake of Buffy and the mission. It feels like he doesn't want to pressure her into saying something that may not be how she truly feels or might put the mission in jeopardy.

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