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Thread: Dollhouse Watch

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    Default Dollhouse Watch

    I have a sparkly brand new copy of Dollhouse and I know basically zero about it. Eliza is definitely in it I know and it might have something to do with identities, that's my lot! Is anyone interested in doing a watch/rewatch and discussing the eps? (making sure any spoilers to future eps are tagged of course, I want it all to be a surprise ).

    I'm thinking of it as a low level chat, probably going through a couple of eps a week. The schedule would be a little ad hoc, rather like we did for the AtS rewatch. Anyone interested?

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    I could give it a go, but I am notoriously salty about the fallacies of several of "Dollhouse"'s central theses and assumptions, so expect some venting about such on any episode I handle. And yes, if we kept a livelier pace with more concise reviews I would be able to participate more fully.

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    Excellent. I wasn't even thinking about doing any formal reviews even, so much as just chatting per episode. But I'm open to either option.

    EDIT: Happy to hear venting as long as it isn't spoilery. As I say, I know jack all about what the themes are, so I may find that I feel the same myself.

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    I'm for it. I'm not sure if I am going to be rewatching it, I've got too little time for that (especially with a ton of other shows I'm watching/have to finish/rewatching at the moment... and work, of course), but I remember enough of the series, at least the important stuff. Though it you go really slowly with your watch, I may try to rewatch episodes with you.

    The series starts a bit slow, the first few episodes may seem a bit disappointing (because the network was insisting on the episodic/standalone format), but from episode 7 of season 1, the show really kicks into gear and it becomes clearer what it's about.

    Apparently FOX didn't even show episode 13 of season 1 (the last episode of season 1) on the show's first broadcast, it was only added on the DVD release, but it's the best episode of season 1.
    Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 18-10-16 at 12:36 PM.
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    Hey TTB. It'll be great if you join us, even if you don't rewatch the specific eps or only rewatch some of them. I was thinking of aiming to watch a couple of eps a week just to keep it a light chat and not go as slow and intense as the BtVS rewatch has become. Plus, it is obviously not possible to get as deeply into the ins/outs of the characters/eps/show when you've zero hindsight, no idea about them or where it's going.

    Odd that they didn't show that episode.

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    While I don't have time for a rewatch proper, I've binge-watched the series twice now, and I'm more than happy to join the discussion. I agree with TimeTravellingBunny that it starts a little bland and formulaic, but picks up soon enough with an intriguing story-line.

    I also love Eliza much more in this series than as Buffy's Faith. She has such a vastly more appealing repertoire of characters to embody instead of the somewhat one-dimensional (eventually reformed) bad girl she got to be on Buffy and Angel. You'll also get to reconnect with Amy Acker in a role that's comparable to Fred, but vastly darker...
    Smile, listen, agree - and then do whatever the f**k you wanted to do anyway... (Robert Downey jr.)

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    That'll be great Clavus.

    I'm looking forward to seeing Eliza in a different role as I can't recall seeing her in anything outside of the Buffyverse. Of course if you want to chat about future plot points with each other during the ep discussions you can always shove it under spoiler tags so I remain as clueless as (always) I currently am! Interesting that you both found it slow going in season 1, I'll stick with it I'm sure but nice to know that it will pick up if I'm finding it bland at first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Hey TTB. It'll be great if you join us, even if you don't rewatch the specific eps or only rewatch some of them. I was thinking of aiming to watch a couple of eps a week just to keep it a light chat and not go as slow and intense as the BtVS rewatch has become. Plus, it is obviously not possible to get as deeply into the ins/outs of the characters/eps/show when you've zero hindsight, no idea about them or where it's going.

    Odd that they didn't show that episode.
    Correction - it's episode 6, called Man in the Street, where the show ditches the standalone format and starts showing what it's really about.

    Episode 13 is... special in a way, so when you see it, you'll see how FOX could air season 1 without it. The writers came up with it because they were scared the show would cancelled. But it's amazing and incredibly important for the series as a whole.

    The series was actually cancelled the following year, but fear not - they knew it in advance, so things get wrapped up in a satisfactory way in season 2, just faster than they would have otherwise.

    I'm a big fan of Faith and I certainly disagree about her being anything close to one-dimensional or two-dimensional, but her role here is also really interesting, and very different. There are also a bunch of other Whedon alumni, unsurprisingly, as well as a few people from Battlestar Galactica, which Joss seems to have been a fan of.

    What other Whedon stuff are you yet to see? I've seen everything except Much Ado (which I've been planning to see for ages and just haven't gotten around to it) and In Your Eyes.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    What other Whedon stuff are you yet to see? I've seen everything except Much Ado (which I've been planning to see for ages and just haven't gotten around to it) and In Your Eyes.
    I've probably not seen much of Whedon's stuff, I'm not even really sure what there is tbh. I saw Cabin in the Woods and was less convinced than everyone else seems to be, so I should probably rewatch that. I've just recently watched Dr Horrible, which I loved and I've seen Firefly/Serenity once years ago and really enjoyed those too. I have seen Much Ado as well. I wasn't too keen on an additional piece of history he inserted for Benedict and Beatrice, (it isn't a play I've actually read, so I'm going on other productions for my belief he had speculated and inserted it), but regardless, it didn't spoil it overall for me. I loved the alternate setting and AD and AA were just excellent. What other work of his do you think is worth picking up? I've never heard of In Your Eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I've probably not seen much of Whedon's stuff, I'm not even really sure what there is tbh. I saw Cabin in the Woods and was less convinced than everyone else seems to be, so I should probably rewatch that. I've just recently watched Dr Horrible, which I loved and I've seen Firefly/Serenity once years ago and really enjoyed those too. I have seen Much Ado as well. I wasn't too keen on an additional piece of history he inserted for Benedict and Beatrice, (it isn't a play I've actually read, so I'm going on other productions for my belief he had speculated and inserted it), but regardless, it didn't spoil it overall for me. I loved the alternate setting and AD and AA were just excellent. What other work of his do you think is worth picking up? I've never heard of In Your Eyes.
    Well, all I know about In Our Eyes is the info on IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes etc. It's a 2014 movie that he wrote and exec. produced (but did not direct), described as a 'paranormal romance'. It has 61% positive reviews by critics on Rotten Tomatoes and 69% positive by audience. It's also the only thing he's done in the last few years other than his Marvel stuff and Much Ado (but the Wikipedia page says it's an old script of his). Has anyone seen it?

    You didn't see The Avengers? I kind of tend to assume everyone has seen at least the first one. The Avengers is a really good superhero movie with a lot of Whedony dialogue and moments in it. The other Marvel movie Joss wrote and directed, the sequel Avengers: Age of Ultron, wasn't that good, but wasn't as bad as people often make it out to be, either.

    I really like Agents of SHIELD. It's a very underrated show, because that's another show that started very slow and then got a bad reputation based on the first part of season 1, because the expectations were so high (because it was the first Marvel TV show). I often see people diss the show and then say something like "I stopped watching halfway through season 1" or "I stopped watching after 5 episodes", which means they stopped just before it would get really good. Season 1 in particular benefits from binge watching (I binge watched seasons 1-3 it relatively recently) and came off much better overall when I rewatched it, knowing where the storyline was going. It's more of a Jed Whedon & Maurissa Tanchareon show, though - and the same is true of Dollhouse, they were/are the showrunners of both shows. Joss came up with the idea for Dollhouse with Eliza, got things going, but Jed and Mo mostly took it from there. For Agents of SHIELD, he was very involved in casting and shaping the overall season 1 storyline and co-wrote the pilot, but I don't think he's had much to do with the show since. Still, it has a lot of Whedony moments and connections - it's not just that several Whedon actors pop up, but as a Buffy fan, there were storylines, characters and moments that make me think: "This reminds me of that thing from Buffy, but at the same time, it's completely different. Like they went the completely opposite route with it".

    I think the only other things Joss has done on TV and movies were his early 1990s episodes of show like Rosanne and various movie script re-writes.

    I've also read most of his comics, other than 'Runaways'. 'The Astonishing X-Men' is fantastic, one of the best things he'd done (that's where my signature comes from). The comic he's written I really dislike is 'Sugarshock'.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Well, all I know about In Our Eyes is the info on IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes etc. It's a 2014 movie that he wrote and exec. produced (but did not direct), described as a 'paranormal romance'. It has 61% positive reviews by critics on Rotten Tomatoes and 69% positive by audience. It's also the only thing he's done in the last few years other than his Marvel stuff and Much Ado (but the Wikipedia page says it's an old script of his). Has anyone seen it?
    Sounds interesting enough to watch, although possibly a little corny.

    I haven't seen The Avengers, either of them. I will add them to my Christmas list. I have seen Iron Man 1&2 and do like superhero movies well enough so I'll probably enjoy them both. Agents of SHIELD sounds interesting too. Another thing I can add to my huge 'I'll-never-get-half-of-this' list. We tend to mostly watch some series or other that we have recorded from Sky and don't keep up to date well with current film/tv releases. The advantage is that I get to discover things like BtVS, AtS, Firefly, Dollhouse etc years after they've been made, not be spoiled on them at all and binge watch them.

    I've also read most of his comics, other than 'Runaways'. 'The Astonishing X-Men' is fantastic, one of the best things he'd done (that's where my signature comes from). The comic he's written I really dislike is 'Sugarshock'.
    The BtVS comics are the only ones I've ever actively bought/read. I'll bear in mind the X-men ones though, whenever PuckRobin covers comics in reviews I always tend to find them interesting so I probably would enjoy reading more. There is always too much to read/watch though.

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    I like Dollhouse a lot and wouldn't mind saying a few words if time allows. It does start off formulaic; the best things about the first few episodes are some thematic parallels, and those make them sort of worth talking about -- but mostly, the show picks up in Man on the Street. Even there, the show is somewhat inconsistent, partly because it's constantly trying to do (probably too many) different things at once. But it has a very devoted following; a few of my friends-from-lj consider it their all-time favourite show, and I think that's appropriate for the show's ambition, even though I think it falls short of that.

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    Excellent, I hope you'll be able to drop in and join us too Max.

    I think we should give it a few more days for anyone else to see what we're discussing/intending and perhaps get going Sunday/Monday? I'm assuming everyone is happy just to keep it to a light general discussion/chat rather than doing full episode reviews. If so, I'll start up a general thread for S1 and would suggest that whoever gets there first just puts up their thoughts on the first ep and we'll give it a handful of days for anyone who wants to add in to get the chance and then move on to the next ep. Just pretty please try to remember to avoid spoilers unless tagged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Sounds interesting enough to watch, although possibly a little corny.

    I haven't seen The Avengers, either of them. I will add them to my Christmas list. I have seen Iron Man 1&2 and do like superhero movies well enough so I'll probably enjoy them both. Agents of SHIELD sounds interesting too. Another thing I can add to my huge 'I'll-never-get-half-of-this' list. We tend to mostly watch some series or other that we have recorded from Sky and don't keep up to date well with current film/tv releases. The advantage is that I get to discover things like BtVS, AtS, Firefly, Dollhouse etc years after they've been made, not be spoiled on them at all and binge watch them.



    The BtVS comics are the only ones I've ever actively bought/read. I'll bear in mind the X-men ones though, whenever PuckRobin covers comics in reviews I always tend to find them interesting so I probably would enjoy reading more. There is always too much to read/watch though.
    Cool, I also like to pick a show and binge watch (and I have a long list of those I should get round to), but unfortunately, I too often get spoiled through Internet - people on Tumblr, media articles, fandom discussions, general pop culture osmosis - no matter how much I try not to! You're very lucky if you can stay unspoiled for most things. Dollhouse and Agents of SHIELD both have some huge twists, so it's really good to remain unspoiled.

    If you decide to watch the Marvel Cinematic Universe stuff, just pay attention to the order (it's not always super important, but it is in some cases). You've already seen Iron Man 1 and 2, then you should watch Captain America: The First Avenger and Thor (doesn't matter in which order) - movies that were all leading to The Avengers, where several superheroes team up - and then of course The Avengers. (Although I actually started with The Avengers, and it didn't hurt at all, it was a great introduction.) After The Avengers, the next movies are Iron Man 3 (a polarizing movie, but I was one of those who really liked it), Thor: The Dark World (not a good movie, so watch it or not depending on whether you happen to like the characters who appear in it) and then Captain America: The Winter Soldier, which I recommend, it is great and the best MCU movie so far.

    If you decide to watch Agents of SHIELD, you can start after The Avengers, because the plot directly follows the movie. The other important thing is to see Captain America: The Winter Soldier before episode 17 of season 1. The show has a really great tie-in with that movie, which was released between eps 16 and 17. Although, if you watch Winter Soldier before you even start the show, that would be somewhat spoilery but would sure make you more interested and change your expectations! The rest of the show isn't that strongly tied in to the movies.

    Then there's Guardians of the Galaxy, which so far hasn't been connected to other movies, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Ant-man (which also doesn't have an awful lot to do with other movies)... and Captain America: Civil War, which came out this year and is fantastic, my second favorite of the movies.

    There is are also the Netflix shows (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage), which are darker and R rated, and they're all fantastic, but really have almost nothing to do with the movies, so they can just be watched independently. And there was Agent Carter, a cool show with a female lead set in the 1940s, right after the war, but it has been sadly cancelled. Although Joss didn't have anything to do with any of these shows, as far as I know (but Whedonverse writers have worked on many of them - Steven S. DeKnight and Drew Goddard have been showrunners for Daredevil, and Jane Espenson did a bit of work for Jessica Jones).
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Thanks for all that info TTB that's really helpful and I'm definitely going to be adding those to my wish list. I have actually seen Guardians of the Galaxy and thought it was a great film, loved Groot! Aren't they making a second of that?

    I manage to stay unspoiled to big shows/films because I don't read around at all, I don't go to other sites much either or look at other fandoms outside BtVS. I watch odd clips or read bits people send me if I'm already watching a show but not really otherwise. If people discuss a show or I see fanart on something I don't know/watch I just don't seem to take in the details at all. I'm a little island of granite that it all just washes around.

    Supernatural is another popular show on my 'must get around to watching it' list that I know basically zero about (other than it has two brother in it and I think one of them is a ghost at some point but I don't know who/when/why etc, if that is even correct). Obviously I'm also expecting there are ties to the supernatural in the plots, ha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Thanks for all that info TTB that's really helpful and I'm definitely going to be adding those to my wish list. I have actually seen Guardians of the Galaxy and thought it was a great film, loved Groot! Aren't they making a second of that?
    Oh yes, it will be out next year. They've just released a teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX0aiMVvnvg It doesn't really reveal almost anything about the plot.
    Groot was great, my favorite part of the movie.

    It sounds like you would enjoy all or most Marvel movies. Especially if you liked Iron Man 2, because that's one of the worst/weakest so far. (I consider IM2, Thor: The Dark World and The Incredible Hulk as the weakest. I didn't mention The Incredible Hulk before - it was one of the first MCU movies, came out around the same time as Iron Man - because it's not good, and it has almost no bearing on other movies, they have been pretty much ignoring it, and a lot of people who watch MCU haven't even seen it. Hulk is in The Avengers, but it's a different actor.)

    There's also a new MCU movie that's just coming out /about to come out - Doctor Strange, with Benedict Cumberbatch. That one is supposedt o be different because dDr Strange is about actually magic, apaprently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSzx-zryEgM
    Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 20-10-16 at 01:54 PM.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Stoney,

    Sounds really interesting - I'm a complete newbie to the show unlike most people here. I know as little about it as you. No rewatch reviews, though! Please!

    Let's just talk about the episodes at set dates (about one a week sounds good) and just chat. As a brand-new viewer, I'll be experiencing it in real time for the first time and so I'll be talking blind about anything that might happen in future episodes (which will no doubt be eye-rollingly silly to those who have seen the entire show and can see how wrong my predictions are!)

    I'm already intrigued by what KingofCretins, Time Travelling Bunny, Clavus and Local Max are saying about the show - so this sounds like a really fun thread to read and participate in. And I agree with KingofCretins - best to make this a free-flowing thread with a much livelier pace than the BtVS rewatch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Oh yes, it will be out next year. They've just released a teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX0aiMVvnvg It doesn't really reveal almost anything about the plot.
    Groot was great, my favorite part of the movie.
    Excellent! And Groot right at the end, perfect.

    It sounds like you would enjoy all or most Marvel movies. Especially if you liked Iron Man 2, because that's one of the worst/weakest so far. (I consider IM2, Thor: The Dark World and The Incredible Hulk as the weakest. I didn't mention The Incredible Hulk before - it was one of the first MCU movies, came out around the same time as Iron Man - because it's not good, and it has almost no bearing on other movies, they have been pretty much ignoring it, and a lot of people who watch MCU haven't even seen it. Hulk is in The Avengers, but it's a different actor.)
    I wasn't keen on Iron Man 2, preferred the first and found Gwyneth Paltrow's character and the romance side pretty dull/tedious. I'll watch 3 if it matters in the overall verse when I start watching through the others, but I wasn't going to bother before. I'll give Hulk a miss too if that doesn't have any impact. Goodness knows when I'll get around to all of these.

    There's also a new MCU movie that's just coming out /about to come out - Doctor Strange, with Benedict Cumberbatch. That one is supposedt o be different because dDr Strange is about actually magic, apaprently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSzx-zryEgM
    Ooo, that looks interesting. The visual geometrics really appeal to me. It could be a bit distracting though, I'm not sure I took much away from the trailer beyond 'ooo pretty visuals' (and thus we see how details pass me by so easily, ha!).

    Quote Originally Posted by American Aurora View Post
    No rewatch reviews, though! Please!

    Let's just talk about the episodes at set dates (about one a week sounds good) and just chat. As a brand-new viewer, I'll be experiencing it in real time for the first time and so I'll be talking blind about anything that might happen in future episodes (which will no doubt be eye-rollingly silly to those who have seen the entire show and can see how wrong my predictions are!)
    Ha definitely no reviews I think, this should just be a light chat about it and, like you, I'll no doubt be making goofy assumptions and incorrect speculations galore.

    I'm already intrigued by what KingofCretins, Time Travelling Bunny, Clavus and Local Max are saying about the show - so this sounds like a really fun thread to read and participate in. And I agree with KingofCretins - best to make this a free-flowing thread with a much livelier pace than the BtVS rewatch.
    I think if we say we'll watch the first Sun/Mon (I'll make sure there is a thread awaiting), then we'll play it by ear a little. If the conversation is still full flow we might wait before moving on to the next ep, but if everyone is ready we may as well move on and see the next within the same week. We'll see how it goes.

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    Maybe rather than assign a principal reviewer, we just post watch dates and have like a rolling, what, 3 days, 4 days discussion time? No rule says more than one person can't just make their first post their first impression and not a reply to someone else, can still also reply to what you are reading. Or assigned reviews works too, but I think that's where we're hitting the gaps, because RL stops people from getting reviews in on time and such.

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    What does everyone think, should we include the unaired pilot in the watch? It's called "Echo" and Wikipedia lists it as the 0 episode of season 1. I'm not sure about its availability. I suggest we include it but only after finishing season 1. It's an excellent episode, much better than the first 5 episodes of season 1, and it would have gotten me to want to watch the show if it had been aired, the way that the actual first episode, "Ghost", did not. If I wanted to convince someone to give Dollhouse a try, I'd show them the unaired pilot. But if you are already committed to the show, you shouldn't watch it first because it spoils about half the season worth of storyline. It's not canon, but it's interesting to see what the show would have been like had it been arc-driven and faster-paced from the start.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Stoney (20-10-16)

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