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Thread: Buffy # 30 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

  1. #21
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    Any of the TV seasons are beyond superior to the comic book seasons - the comic book season, IMHO, have always had that quality of writing for a younger readership than the TV series
    Well as long time comics reader I know that writing for a comic can be incredibly complex and adult, it's just sadly the BUffy comics decided (either consciously or unconsciously) decided not to go down that root. Imo the pattern was set by season 8 and has just staggered on from there.

    But it's incredibly unfair I suppose to compare the writing in the comics to the show, as they had the benefit of the input by the cast, and that contribution can never be overlooked imo.

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    I've also had a chance yesterday to read my digital edition of #30 and have unfortunately little to add to the issues that were raised above about the story being fairly predictable, somewhat repetitive and probably directed at a somewhat younger audience without the layered subtexts that made the TV show open to interpretation on many levels and therefore interesting for an older crowd.

    I can also understand some of the arguments back and forth where the point was raised that if we had so many complaints about the comics and were constantly bashing the story, why would we still come back to them and even spend money on them month after month.

    Well, some of us may be masochists (you know how you can't help poking the tip of your tongue in that hole in your tooth that you know you should get fixed even though you know it'll give you a jolt of pain...)

    For me I know exactly why I keep coming back: at this point the story be damned, but Rebekah Isaacs is a goddess and her art is awesome!



    I look at her characters and the drawings truly bring back the faces of the people on the show for me.



    She goes back to the show, does her visual research, has a lot of respect for the amazing cinematography that went into making it and then makes it come to life again. I love that combination of mastery and humility.



    Sometimes she just gives me something that's freaking beautiful. I love the way the three frames blend into each other and the elegant ornamentation that underlines the flow between them. Every line has its place and feels incredibly dynamic and alive!



    And yes, I confess I'm a sucker for it. She does draw some pretty sweet Spuffy - who cares about the drivel in the bubbles. Look at the artwork around them, and I think there is a lot to love about Season 10.

    I'll keep buying Season 11 provided they can retain her as an artist!
    Last edited by Clavus; 25-08-16 at 04:24 PM.
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    Yeah I vastly prefer her as the artist then previous ones. She has a really elegant style and on the whole does the characters justice. *shudders at the memory of Jeanty's 'kidults'.

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    Let me get this straight - do you people seriously believe that season 10 has more simplistic storytelling or is aimed at a younger audience than, for example, season four? For goodness' sake this is nonsense.

    As to the art - I too vastly prefer Isaacs's work but credit where credit is due - I feel like Jeanty's depiction of movement and action scenes were superior. Not by much obviously, but still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    Let me get this straight - do you people seriously believe that season 10 has more simplistic storytelling or is aimed at a younger audience than, for example, season four? For goodness' sake this is nonsense.
    Well, there are some episodes in Season 4 that are pretty grotty: "Beer Bad", comes to mind, but I'd have to thumb through a lot of comics (from all seasons) to find stuff that's as well-crafted, subtle and multi-layered as "Pangs", "Hush", "Superstar" or "Restless", to name just a few.

    As for the Season 10 story being vastly inferior to Seasons 8 or 9, that's not necessarily the point I was trying to make. I've had my share of facepalms over Centaur-Dawn and "pregnant" RoboBuffy. I've just generally kept reading more for the sake of the artwork (Paul Lee/ Andy Owens were a decent pencil and inks team in my opinion, Cliff Richards had good contributions or you were able to hit on gems like Gene Colan's short tale of Nikki Woods).
    Last edited by Clavus; 26-08-16 at 01:19 PM.
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    The Full Christos Gage Slayalive Q/A for Buffy # 30 is up.

    http://slayalive.com/showthread.php/...ason-10-finale

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    Let me get this straight - do you people seriously believe that season 10 has more simplistic storytelling or is aimed at a younger audience than, for example, season four? For goodness' sake this is nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clavus View Post
    Well, there are some episodes in Season 4 that are pretty grotty: "Beer Bad", comes to mind, but I'd have to thumb through a lot of comics (from all seasons) to find stuff that's as well-crafted, subtle and multi-layered layered as "Pangs", "Hush", "Superstar" or "Restless", to name just a few.
    I don't think we can compare a TV show with comics; unless the show (or movie) is very crappy, the real action is always better: there are the production, the acting etc.

    And Season 4 had great episodes, like you mentioned, but I don't think the main plot is so much better: Maggie Walsh playing Dr. Frankenstein?
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    Read it. Decent and enjoyable for being the story that it is. Long ago accepted comics can't be show level if only because the actors aren't here. The plot is coherent and an entertaining enough read, if sledgehammered in terms of theme and emotion. Little surprised their was no big cliffhanger like the New Vamps last year. W & H being back on Earth could be the new problem or the antagonist in whatever 'Angel' story we get, though from the sounds of it they are nerfed by New magic and just trying to lobby and cling to some form of power.

    Target audience is obviously show fans but it lets new people come in basically at the start of every 'season'. They seem to be trying for younger people with the manga stories which may translate, though it gets pretty bloody for a book that's not actually Rated M.

    I read WicDiv #22 today as well. Its not the f-bombs or the (beautiful) gore and fight scenes, you can just tell its creators are allowed to be more ballsy. Without spoilers #13 was a gut punch to the readers over a character we never met before and the hate-tweet downside of fame. #14 literally reused art from old issues from a new perspective and made fun of itself but still had us understanding yet still hating one of the jackass, cruel, misogynistic characters. The issue I just read today had just enough depth for me to question whether our main protagonist might actually turn out to be some kind of villain in the end, even as we understand her motives and have wanted her to have vengeance for months. Contrasted with these books that let Drusilla get away for the 9000th time. I enjoy the books for the fluff they are, and I'll probably read S11, though if you wanted to drop off-now would be a good time since both books actually got pretty happy endings.

    (I'm still bothered Angel never told Spike about Fred/Illyria though).
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 25-08-16 at 10:58 PM.

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    Great Post - and I totally agree with you particularly regarding the Mind Trip - IMO, the best artwork of the entire season. Her renditions of the women are especially good especially Ghost Anya, Buffy and Willow and of the males she does a wonderful Andrew - he is my favorite of all her male studies. I wish that she could do all of the issues. Her work on Buffy and Spike in the Dream Trip and the finale issue, for me are the ones that I have enjoyed the most. Agree with you about the historical studies of Spike - they are outstanding.

    I loved the last season ending covers and the contrast of styles - Steve Morris, IMO, has done beautiful covers all through the season. His portrait of Buffy for issue 30 I think is awesome. I sure hope that he will return for season 11.

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointMan View Post
    I've read the issue, so I'll recap.


    I think people can probably guess how things unfold here. Right after Buffy gives her speech that was in the preview, the one that ended with a wish, Fake Anya says "wish granted" and suddenly D-man isn't all powerful anymore. She then restores Xander, who wasn't dead, only rendered incorporeal and unable to be seen or heard. D'Hoffryn mortally wounds Anya after this, and she dies in Xander's arms. The other vengeance demons turn on D'Hoffryn, so he runs away back to his home office, where Buffy slices his head off. The team decide to reform the magic council, with Buffy, Willow and Giles as some of the new members. Also included is Dracula, who refers to Dawn as Xander's child bride(yes hey are dating again) The issue ends on a super upbeat note.

    I'm sure plenty of people will enjoy the issue. I was left with a feeling of 'meh'. I'm disappointed that they wasted what I saw as such a good opportunity with what happened to Xander, either by actually killing the character and leaving him that way, or having th scoobies bring him back and paving the way for a post-resurrection story line. I understand the reason for the deception, but I found the twist to be entirely too predictable. As for everything else; it just felt to neatly wrapped up for my tastes. There's nothing that leaved me wanting to see what happends next, no hint of troubles ahead. Everyone is happy, healthy and together. Such developments may sound good, but happy charactrs rarely make for interesting stories. I'm sure I'll get plenty of disagreement here.
    I admit I logged back in and even paid attention to the comics for the first time in years because I heard Xander had died. And I was for a time, truly hopeful he had because it would have represented an opportunity for growth and change in the B-Verse.

    I wasn't expecting him to go down like a hero in Varian, in a romantic sense like Tidus or even an introspective but important prophetic way like Vol'jin. Just in a way that fit his character and what he meant.

    So of course they didn't so they can continue to the game of musical deck chairs on the Titanic as the franchise drops further and further behind. I mean there are Inuyasha story arcs that wrap up faster and have more development/symbolism/emotion in them then the Buffy comics do. Really the only message I get from the comics is that someone thinks the license still has value so let's keep printing these stories rehashing every major or minor plot point from the TV series.

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    Really the only message I get from the comics is that someone thinks the license still has value so let's keep printing these stories rehashing every major or minor plot point from the TV series.
    Is that a bad thing? Clearly there are people who enjoy the comics so...?

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    Well I suppose for some it's because some might see the 'inferior' story telling has tainting the memory of the TV show?

    Sadly in the early days of the comics thats how they effected me. In fact it made me see Whedon's story telling ability in a completely new light...

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    I'm afraid that's a self-centered way of thinking. Memories of entertainment of some people are not more important than the present entertainment of others. The show still exists, unchanged, the comics didn't alter it in any way. Watch it again, refresh your memories, let others enjoy what they enjoy.

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    Remember, though, folks, Charles thinks Power Rangers is better than Buffy. A kid's show not known for any degree of complexity, nuance, or depth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    Well I suppose for some it's because some might see the 'inferior' story telling has tainting the memory of the TV show?
    I, for one, am re-watching the show (I've just begun Season 4), and nothing has changed for me - still like the later seasons more (and think they are much better), and I'm sure I will love Season 5 all over again when I start rewathing it!

    I like the comics, and think they have good writing, since the beginning - even Season 8; it can be a hard pill to swallow at first, but it's good.

    And I've been reading a lot of good reviews, from sites and people who are into comics; while the bad things are mostly said by fans, and some of them we have to take with a grain of salt, like the ones coming from haters: as soon as Spuffy happened, Season 10 was considered garbage, for instance - not the case of none of you, who really have one reason or other for criticism, or simply don't like the thing at all.
    Last edited by betta; 29-08-16 at 10:48 PM.
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    Full Rebekah Isaacs Slayalive Q/A for Buffy # 30.

    http://slayalive.com/showthread.php/...064#post124064

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippcomet View Post
    Remember, though, folks, Charles thinks Power Rangers is better than Buffy. A kid's show not known for any degree of complexity, nuance, or depth.
    Power Rangers is still on the air, celebrating 25 years plus in this country with a new movie on the way. In Japan it's closer 50 years and is widely accepted, acknowledged part of their culture.

    I ask you sir, to tell where the Buffy verse is in relation to those two properties.

    Hint: Off a cliff and going lower.

    The Whedonverse just isn't very good or entertaining anymore. There's a percentage of the fans that are still loyal enough to buy the books, read and comment on them. But its very low and getting lower. There's no real growth or change for the characters, they're trapped in an endless cycle of melodramas that would put Days of Our Lives to shame, for reasons that one really wants to talk about.

    Power Rangers at the very least has a beginning, a middle and an end where the plot gets resolved, the guy gets the girl and the evil whatever blows up and is dead, real good.

    Once upon a time, BtVS managed to do that. Just not since S3 have they managed to do it regularly or well.

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    There's no real growth or change for the characters
    Honestly, do you even read the comics? Because there's been a lot of growth and character development in the comic seasons.

    Remember when Buffy used to be obsessed with the idea of normal life, of being like other girls? Well, guess what, Buffy doesn't give a shit anymore! She wants to be the slayer, full time, full stop. Or remember the no ancient prophecy about a chosen one and her friends nonsense, the complexes and whatnot? It's gone! Buffy doesn't think like that anymore. It's all teamwork and trust these days. This is exactly the growth and the change you imply doesn't exist.

    Or Willow! Remember when, in season seven, Willow used to be afraid of using magic, of going dark? Well, she's not afraid anymore. The Willow you saw back then doesn't even exist anymore, she's not the same person so much character development was piled on her.

    Or Spike! Spike used to be an outsider, always in the shadows and whatnot, but now he belongs. Scoobies are his home basically, his family, he's one of them and not just in a Buffy's new boyfriend way. He sees Buffy in a completely different way as well.

    Xander had an interesting arc about dealing with his traumas. Dawn became this incredibly cool, charismatic young woman - seriously, Dawn's awesome in the comics! Faith is basically unrecognizable and in a good way - she's level-headed and responsible now. Giles is a teenager and although I'm not a huge fan of this particular development I can't say that he didn't change. Angel? OK, Angel's still Angel.

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  33. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    Honestly, do you even read the comics? Because there's been a lot of growth and character development in the comic seasons.

    Remember when Buffy used to be obsessed with the idea of normal life, of being like other girls? Well, guess what, Buffy doesn't give a shit anymore! She wants to be the slayer, full time, full stop. Or remember the no ancient prophecy about a chosen one and her friends nonsense, the complexes and whatnot? It's gone! Buffy doesn't think like that anymore. It's all teamwork and trust these days. This is exactly the growth and the change you imply doesn't exist.

    Or Willow! Remember when, in season seven, Willow used to be afraid of using magic, of going dark? Well, she's not afraid anymore. The Willow you saw back then doesn't even exist anymore, she's not the same person so much character development was piled on her.

    Or Spike! Spike used to be an outsider, always in the shadows and whatnot, but now he belongs. Scoobies are his home basically, his family, he's one of them and not just in a Buffy's new boyfriend way. He sees Buffy in a completely different way as well.

    Xander had an interesting arc about dealing with his traumas. Dawn became this incredibly cool, charismatic young woman - seriously, Dawn's awesome in the comics! Faith is basically unrecognizable and in a good way - she's level-headed and responsible now. Giles is a teenager and although I'm not a huge fan of this particular development I can't say that he didn't change. Angel? OK, Angel's still Angel.
    And none of the changes or 'growth' as you put it will actually matter since can and will be tossed at a moment's notice for the sake of the plot.

    Oh Buffy wants to be a slayer 24/7 now? Give it 4 issues into S11 and she'll be right back moping about people living normal life. See Seven 8 at the beginning where she was a badass leading an army of slayers and watched it all fall apart because of Angel.

    Willow isn't afraid of dark magic anymore? Give it 6 issues and she'll be back afraid of herself yet again because she'll see herself from Fray's timeline or something else equally traumatizing.

    Xander is in a loving relationship? Good except they keep saying he isn't by saying Dawn doesn't love him and him having confidence issues. That's when he's in the story at all because we have to have Andrew or Spike in there somehow.

    You're painting false images of the characters that everyone here knows will be torn down and rent asunder in the name of story-telling. It happens every season and every season starts with the same hope that maybe everyone has moved passed it. And maybe the characters have but the creators haven't, so back to the see-saw we go again.

    History repeats itself over and over again.

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    I don't know what will happen in the future. I'm not a fortune teller. What I do know is that, so far, the idea that characters don't change in the comics is a complete nonsense. Just ask anybody who actually enjoys them.
    Last edited by a thing of evil; 01-09-16 at 12:01 AM.

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