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Thread: The Season 11 Thread - Discussion, Speculation and News

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    "It's lit." ~ William "Spike" Pratt. Too soon?

    I actually like the big bad a lot! I am, however, a lover of all things camp, trash and B-movie so a press secretary slash cyborg witch is basically my shit. And I don't know, she seems to fit right in with all the other wacky Buffy villains as far as I'm concerned.

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    Well at the start of the season, I figured Angel and Illyria would be chasing someone/something through time, or perhaps following clues like a scavenger hunt, in which case, why can't the road lead to LA? I didnt think they'd be hopping into random time periods centuries past for literally no reason. Like, we still have no in-story reason for this adventure. Angel had a vision of a flower with teeth, so the solution is to visit the Primordial Era?

    And if we are just going to gratuitously screw with the timeline with no in-story justification, again, why not visit LA?

    In one of the Q&As, the writer said we'd be seein dead characters return (if I'm remembering correctly), which I guess we technically have, with Darla and Angel's dad. But I was expecting to see cameos from dead members of his cast since, y'know, time-travel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    "It's lit." ~ William "Spike" Pratt. Too soon?

    I actually like the big bad a lot! I am, however, a lover of all things camp, trash and B-movie so a press secretary slash cyborg witch is basically my shit. And I don't know, she seems to fit right in with all the other wacky Buffy villains as far as I'm concerned.
    I love camp and B-movies as much as the next guy. But the design for this villian is about as lazy as it gets. She's a magic cyborg, so wacky, right? Why not give her laser eyes, adimantium claws and make her a half-vampire/half-werewolf ninja while we are at it? I've got a lot of love for some of the over-the-top characters that came from the 90s, but there still has to be some charm, and Ms Wise has none. She's too ridiculous and goofy to take seriously as a threat, unlike say, Doomsday, and she's too bland to find endearing/entertaining like, say Deadpool.


    Camp has its place, but I don't think it works well as the big bad of a season that has spent a year patting itself on the back for being so grown-up and politically relevant. It's generally accepted that Adam was the lamest big bad from the show for much the same reason. He looked ridiculous, his motivation was weak and yet we were still supposed to regard him as a big threat to take seriously.

    Until she showed up as the final boss this season, I'd completely forgotten Ms Wise even existed, she was just that unimportant until this point. They should have telegraphed her as the big bad early on instead of building her up to be a mystery, because who really cares? Did anyone react like all "*gasp* it was her all along!" like they did with Angel and Twilight? No. I think Jordan was a more entertaining (and more three dimensional) villian than Ms Wise.

    It's pretty obvious Ms. Wise is gonna die a Disney death too. She'll overload her power or get eaten by the dragon or something where it's not really Buffy's fault she died.

    I can't help but feel there will be zero payoff for Buffy draining all the Slayers. I kinda need to see Buffy doing something to justify this that she couldn't have been written to do as a "normal" Slayer.
    Last edited by Vampire in Rug; 21-10-17 at 12:17 AM.

  3. #563
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    First look at Season 11 Giles miniseries.

    https://www.cbr.com/buffy-the-vampir...es-first-look/

    Spoiler:
    Giles Heads To School in Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Giles First Look

    Check out the first look at John Lam and Dan Jackson's art for the Joss Whedon and Erika Alexander co-scripted series

    by Stephen Gerding



    CBR has the exclusive first look at art from the upcoming Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Giles by artist Jon Lam (Gotham Academy: Second Semester) and colorist Dan Jackson (Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 11). The four-issue Dark Horse Comics miniseries, scripted by Joss Whedon and Erika Alexander (Concrete Park), kicks off Feb. 28



    “Sunnydale was, apart from being on a hellmouth, a pretty privileged place,” Whedon said when the miniseries was first announced. “Giles has never really dealt with the public school system as it exists for most kids. He’s never been to the city. Giles has always had the advantage of being a part of the system that educated him. He was taught to be a watcher in a family of watchers. His education was, in the grand British public school tradition, both expansive and parochial. In-depth views of tiny portions of the world. Of course, he walked over the awkward hormonal coals of adolescence—but now he knows more, and expects better of himself. His once-more 15-year-old body, however, is oblivious to his wisdom/cynicism/impatience.”

    “Giles will meet characters he’s familiar with,” Alexander added. “Characters loafing around at any high school: shy girls, bullies, crazy principals, mysterious janitors, loony students posing as a teachers’ aides, as well as a few surprises. But the most important character he’ll meet is himself. A version of himself he thought, hoped, he left long ago, will be there to greet him. And that Giles gives our Giles anxiety.”

    Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Giles arrives in stores Feb. 28.
    .
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    I'm really going to love to see how they might try to coherently justify Giles ever considering it "wrong" to date while in school without retroactively throwing vampire romance under the bus. I mean, at least G-man is alive

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    I'm really going to love to see how they might try to coherently justify Giles ever considering it "wrong" to date while in school without retroactively throwing vampire romance under the bus. I mean, at least G-man is alive
    I wonder if you support Roy Moore for the United States Senate...

    Angel first saw Buffy and fell in love with her when she was perhaps 14-years-old. Angel first starting dating Buffy and kissing her when she was 16-years-old. It seems Angel FIRST brings up the subject of sex when Buffy is going to turn 17-years-old. Before Buffy turned 17-years-old, Buffy/Angel at-most were 'making out'; there is zero indication that they before the end of "Surprise" (B 2.13) ever moved beyond 'first base'.

    While Spike was probably sexually attracted to Buffy since "School Hard" (B 2.03), he doesn't even own to being in love with her until the end of "Out of My Mind" (B 5.04) when Buffy is a sophomore in college and 19-years-old. Spike doesn't first move to make Buffy/Spike 'physical' until "Fool For Love" (B 5.07).


    On a wider note, men 'being with' 'underage' girls was not common outside of royalty and the nobility. It was mostly regarding trying to ensure heirs (have issue) and the family line and with that largely because of the death rates for children and the death rates during child birth. Someone like Liam and someone like Giles would have not grown up considering it was okay to have sex with 'underage' girls.

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    Angel first saw Buffy and fell in love with her when she was perhaps 14-years-old.
    Yeah, and the show absolutely portrays it as creepy, in "Becoming". It's that one thing Buffy/Angel shippers can't wank away no matter how much they try. That one scene, you know which one - Buffy walking out of school, Angel in a car etc. It shows that Angel fell in love with a kid! Buffy's a kid, OK? She acts like a kid. She looks like a kid, like, look at her:


    I think they even bandaged Sarah's chest to, like, hide her boobs! It's crazy. And Angel! Angel looks like a total creep:


    Make no mistake, it's totally intentional and they knew what they were doing!
    Last edited by a thing of evil; 16-11-17 at 01:28 AM.

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    Angel Season 11 # 11 preview pages.

    https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/300...l-Season-11-11

    Spoiler:






    - - - Updated - - -

    DARK HORSE COMICS February 2018 Solicitations

    https://www.newsarama.com/37424-dark...citations.html

    Spoiler:
    Joss Whedon! Erika Alexander!

    Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Giles #1 (of 4)

    Joss Whedon (W), Erika Alexander (W), Jon Lam (A), Dan Jackson (C), Steve Morris (Cover), Arielle Jovellanos (Variant cover), and Jenny Frison (Ultra variant)

    On sale Feb 28
    FC, 32 pages
    $3.99
    Miniseries

    From Joss Whedon and Erika Alexander comes a series that returns Buffy’s Rupert Giles to high school! But this time—as a grown man living in a teenage body—Giles will be a student instead of a teacher. At an inner-city LA-area school, when a mystical influence is detected and teachers start to go missing, Giles enrolls to investigate. What he finds is more than vampires and demons; something unusual and frightening is happening here. If Giles can get through one day as a student, he’ll have a chance to find out who, what, and where—but high school is still hell, y’all.





    Angel Season 11 Volume 3: Dark Reflections TPB

    Corinna Bechko (W), Geraldo Borges (A), Michelle Madsen (C), and Scott Fischer (Cover)

    On sale Apr 4
    FC, 112 pages
    $17.99
    TPB, 7" x 10"

    On a time-traveling mission to prevent an impending disaster, Joss Whedon’s ensouled vampire is confronted by the opportunity to challenge his very existence in the concluding arc of Season 11. Will his companions be able to convince him that changing the past is not, after all, the solution to the future? Or will Angel finally find the key in the past to the shadow over his present? Collects Season 11 #9–#12.

    “They have created a satisfying adventure for Buffy and Angel fans to get behind, but also a solid comic for comic book fans in general to enjoy.”—Comic Crusaders




    ETA

    The third cover is for another book so I removed it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    More Angel Season 11 # 11 preview pages.

    https://horrorpatch.com/2017/11/14/c...11-11-preview/

    Spoiler:








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    Here's the final correct Giles # 1 variant.

    https://www.cbr.com/dark-horse-comic...solicitations/

    Spoiler:

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    Giles went from



    to




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    The SlayAlive Q&A with Rebekah has been completed - here.

    I was interested in her comment that Joss okayed the new hair style for Buffy as an implication of how things still have to be run by him and an ongoing involvement as there seems to be so often doubt over his presence in decisions post the writers' summit which plans out the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    The SlayAlive Q&A with Rebekah has been completed - here.

    I was interested in her comment that Joss okayed the new hair style for Buffy as an implication of how things still have to be run by him and an ongoing involvement as there seems to be so often doubt over his presence in decisions post the writers' summit which plans out the season.
    Are you implying that Joss Whedon is Executive Producing BtVS S11? Are you implying that Joss Whedon is "Showrunning" BtVS S11?

    All we get from that quote is Joss approved Buffy's new hairstyle. We don't even know how Rebekah Isaacs got that approval. She could have simply emailed him as a courtesy or she wanted to and he approved of the hairstyle. The quote doesn't even imply that he looks over the art for the Issues.

    I tend to reason that Joss Whedon wants Buffy/Spike to continue and perhaps he'd want to approve any drastic changes in characters' appearances (such as missing body parts, radically different hairstyle and/or clothing changes, etc.).

    I'm still not aware that Joss Whedon approved Christos Gage for BtVS S10 much less for BtVS S11.

    Anyway, Buffy told Spike in "Chosen" (B 7.22) that she loves him and I remember Joss Whedon, David Boreanaz, Sarah Michelle Gellar, and James Marsters all telling that Buffy loves--meaning 'in love', as Buffy wants to have sex with Spike--Spike. Yet the finale of BtVS S11 has something said that was already canon by "First Date" (B 7.14) at-latest. It seems Gage continues to write the Buffyverse as if Buffy/Spike never existed in BtVS S7 and perhaps even that Buffy and Spike didn't even see each other in BtVS S7.

    In addition, Buffy in BtVS S11 seemed so in love with Spike that it makes around zero sense that Buffy and Spike weren't engaged already during the Season and the finale probably would have been better with their having a wedding. At the very least, Buffy's ending quote should be "Let's get married." or "Sire me" or something.

    Post-BtVS S8 has been a mess. The only good parts are BtVS S9: Willow: Wonderland , BtVS S9: Spike : "A Dark Place", and the Drusilla Issues of A&F S9. Oh, and "In Space, No One Can Hear You Slay" or whatever that title is. The abortion storyline had problems because it made little sense that Spike would leave Buffy in her room risking her getting possibly raped, drugged, killed, etc.


    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    Yeah, and the show absolutely portrays it as creepy, in "Becoming". It's that one thing Buffy/Angel shippers can't wank away no matter how much they try. That one scene, you know which one - Buffy walking out of school, Angel in a car etc. It shows that Angel fell in love with a kid! Buffy's a kid, OK? She acts like a kid. She looks like a kid, like, look at her:


    I think they even bandaged Sarah's chest to, like, hide her boobs! It's crazy. And Angel! Angel looks like a total creep:


    Make no mistake, it's totally intentional and they knew what they were doing!
    More than Buffy/Angel 'shippers dismiss the fact that Angel statutorily raped Buffy. The "Becoming Part II" (B 2.22) flashback's main problem regarding Buffy/Angel is actually there's zero hint that Angel ever helped Buffy in any way before "Welcome to the Hellmouth" (B 1.01). No flashbacks suggest Angel ever helped Buffy before BtVS S1.

    Some Buffy/Angel 'shippers wanted Buffy/Angel to continue in Season 9. Some wanted it to continue in Season 10. Some wanted it to continue in Season 11. Some want it to continue in Season 12.

    Some Buffy/Angel 'shippers fully defend what Angel did in BtVS S8; some try to contend that Angel was a good guy in BtVS S8. Some say Angel was going to bring all the good people into Twilight even though later in A&F S9, Angel says that never was his plan.

    I'm fine with Buffy/Angel 'shippers who want to dismiss BtVS S8.

    After "Not Fade Away" (A 5.22), Spike and Angel both perhaps have a decent chance of being 'endgame' for Buffy. AtF has Cordelia as Angel's love of his life but it also has Spike's having a girlfriend, having feelings for both Fred and Illyria, and Spike's having sex with his subordinates. The IDW Drusilla Issues clearly show Dru is in love with Spike. IDW's Spike brings in Beck and retroactively makes Spike: Asylum canon. IDW's Illyria: Haunted makes Spike/Illyria even more possible. So, Angel could be with Buffy and Spike could be with probably Drusilla or Illyria or Beck.

    Nevertheless, considering BtVS S8 canon one should conclude that Angel should have been dusted after BtVS 8.39; Buffy/Angel must never be possible after BtVS S8.
    Last edited by MikeB; 27-11-17 at 04:54 PM. Reason: replied to another post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    Are you implying that Joss Whedon is Executive Producing BtVS S11? Are you implying that Joss Whedon is "Showrunning" BtVS S11?
    I'm not implying that Joss is Executive Producing BtVS S11, his name on the front as the Executive Producer clearly and outrightly states that. His level of involvement during the season, beyond the initial writers summit, is relatively unknown. Rebekah's answer states that Joss had to give the go ahead on the change to Buffy's hairstyle. So either it was something that they planned at the writers' summit, which seems unlikely that far in advance, or he is contacted and gives approval for things in an ongoing sense. As some people debate and doubt that he stays involved I was merely saying that I personally think it implies that they do consult him on some decisions during. I wasn't speculating on it beyond that. That Joss is Exec Producer however is just a fact.

    I'm still not aware that Joss Whedon approved Christos Gage for BtVS S10 much less for BtVS S11.
    Joss was at the writers' summits with him, so clearly he approved Christos being the main writer.

    Anyway, Buffy told Spike in "Chosen" (B 7.22) that she loves him and I remember Joss Whedon, David Boreanaz, Sarah Michelle Gellar, and James Marsters all telling that Buffy loves--meaning 'in love', as Buffy wants to have sex with Spike--Spike. Yet the finale of BtVS S11 has something said that was already canon by "First Date" (B 7.14) at-latest. It seems Gage continues to write the Buffyverse as if Buffy/Spike never existed in BtVS S7 and perhaps even that Buffy and Spike didn't even see each other in BtVS S7.
    Buffy told Spike in Chosen and he denied that she did love him, this followed that moment specifically. This occasion shows it finally said and accepted between them and the contrast highlights the comfort/certainty in the relationship that they have these days. Gage has written S10 and S11 with a great deal of reference to Seasons 6 & 7 and I think where Buffy and Spike are now is a very thoughtful and realistic continuation of their relationship from where they have been and where they had come to individually personally. But we've established many times that we simply don't see the relationship in the same light.

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    Season 12 practically confirmed!!!

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    I saw this tweet, replied to it and Gage liked my reply I am really hoping it is Buffy they are working on and not something else

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I'm not implying that Joss is Executive Producing BtVS S11, his name on the front as the Executive Producer clearly and outrightly states that.
    Rules say if Mike doesn't like it Joss must not be involved and it isn't canon.

    Buffy told Spike in Chosen and he denied that she did love him, this followed that moment specifically. This occasion shows it finally said and accepted between them and the contrast highlights the comfort/certainty in the relationship that they have these days. Gage has written S10 and S11 with a great deal of reference to Seasons 6 & 7 and I think where Buffy and Spike are now is a very thoughtful and realistic continuation of their relationship from where they have been and where they had come to individually personally. But we've established many times that we simply don't see the relationship in the same light.
    Funny thing is when I read that I actually had to do a sort of mental double take. I was like "okay, why did she make such a point of sayin ohhhhhhhhh". Which honestly makes it feel a bit on the nose, the way that Hulk catching any given Asgardian by the heel is a bit on the nose. I could have half-expected them to both turn and shoot finger guns at the 4th wall in the following panel

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I saw this tweet, replied to it and Gage liked my reply I am really hoping it is Buffy they are working on and not something else
    I honestly take Joss working on anything in popular fiction with truly measured caution, especially his own most beloved works. He isn't Jordan with the Wizards; he's Jordan with the White Sox.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    In addition, Buffy in BtVS S11 seemed so in love with Spike that it makes around zero sense that Buffy and Spike weren't engaged already during the Season and the finale probably would have been better with their having a wedding. At the very least, Buffy's ending quote should be "Let's get married." or "Sire me" or something.
    Contrary to what you think, there are plenty of people out there who don't feel that being in love and in a committed and happy relationship with someone means that you MUST get engaged and married. Some people don't feel like you need to do it after a year or two of dating, some people don't think they have to do it after multiple years, some people don't think they need to do it EVER. So it absolutely makes sense to a lot of people.

    And I'm definitely sure that there are even more people who feel that they don't need to change themselves fundamentally to be more similar to the person they're in a relationship with... and that percentage would be even higher if it meant dying and becoming an undead demonic soulless creature.

    But while some may opt for that, there is exactly 0% chance that Buffy Summers would ever contemplate wanting to become a vampire. I'm also sure that Spike would be pretty horrified of the idea of Buffy becoming a vampire. In fact, if she was sired, he'd probably have to dust her (that is, if he could - a Slayer vampire would probably be incredibly strong!), since she'd be soulless and likely evil, as most vampires tend to be.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    Funny thing is when I read that I actually had to do a sort of mental double take. I was like "okay, why did she make such a point of sayin ohhhhhhhhh". Which honestly makes it feel a bit on the nose, the way that Hulk catching any given Asgardian by the heel is a bit on the nose. I could have half-expected them to both turn and shoot finger guns at the 4th wall in the following panel
    Ha. I'm surprised at you though for wondering even for a moment why they made such a point of it when they set up for it being a 'thing' later when he stopped her saying it when she left the camp. There was a good chance they'd tease that it might come and then not do it, but because of Chosen I think it was always going to feel to some degree aimed at the audience. I still think it was better with the casual tone though because of that than for a clichéd moment of angst or drama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Ha. I'm surprised at you though for wondering even for a moment why they made such a point of it when they set up for it being a 'thing' later when he stopped her saying it when she left the camp. There was a good chance they'd tease that it might come and then not do it, but because of Chosen I think it was always going to feel to some degree aimed at the audience. I still think it was better with the casual tone though because of that than for a clichéd moment of angst or drama.
    Well, why? It didn't register with me because I was not in need of such anvilicious fanservice -- that she loves him has been self-evident in her actions and choices for a good number of (real) years. I think there was a specific and possibly a smiiiiidge insecure vocal corner of the audience that needed to have the ball spiked in the endzone (no pun intended), but it was not really an earth-shattering revelation, was it?

    Do agree it was better that it come in an undramatic, relieved kind of moment and not at the crux of the plot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    Well, why? It didn't register with me because I was not in need of such anvilicious fanservice -- that she loves him has been self-evident in her actions and choices for a good number of (real) years. I think there was a specific and possibly a smiiiiidge insecure vocal corner of the audience that needed to have the ball spiked in the endzone (no pun intended), but it was not really an earth-shattering revelation, was it?

    Do agree it was better that it come in an undramatic, relieved kind of moment and not at the crux of the plot.
    No I completely agree that it has been very self-evident and didn't need to be a 'thing' at all but it's not really a crime for the writing to have gone there. Romance or other relationship beats often do seem to cover arguably unnecessary ground where things are said aloud for the audience to 'ooo' at and to draw clear lines/boundaries before moving onwards. This was made such a one in the relationship by what had passed between them before in a previous very key moment/scene in the past. Which was kind of the point, what had passed in Chosen raised the potential for a continuation the audience would gather the related relevance of and see/understand the contrast in. So very much in reference to what had gone before in the relationship, and very specifically within the show, which was actually what it was being suggested it lacked.

    You could argue it was being pointedly used as much to a section of the audience who were, probably still are, inclined to write off the relationship and dismiss it from Buffy's pov than those that feel more positive and more inclined/able to see what was shown. Buffy directly comparing her ability to see the distinction of the soul and somewhat separate the past from Spike as she could with Angel's nun obsession felt the same in S10. It is a relationship that gathers enough vitriolic reactions that Gage often endures venomous messages in social media, so wanting to address the audience at times and draw those lines is somewhat understandable I think.
    Last edited by Stoney; 01-12-17 at 06:19 AM.

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