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Thread: The Season 11 Thread - Discussion, Speculation and News

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    None of those are applicable anymore.
    How so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
    It was supposed to be a stealth mission, a quick in and out. They didn't bring assault rifles because they weren't expecting to run into Jordan. They were caught by surprise.

    Buffy will get her powers back before the season is over. Of course she will. That said, I don't get this DorothyFan1esque obsession with powers -as though a character with powers is just somehow "better". The quality of the story all depends on the writing. There are better characters than Buffy who have no powers, and shit characters with incredible powers. The best Angel comics featured Angel with no powers. Buffy's powers were at their strongest during the weakest part of season 8.
    Not to mention the last time Angel as a character stuck out as particularly heroic, IMO. Since then it was "trying to destroy the world" and "egotistically trying to make myself feel better about trying to destroy the world", although I admit to having not really lifted a finger toward his book since the end of the first go round of "Angel and Faith".

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    Here are the Buffy # 9 preview pages posted out.

    https://horrorpatch.com/2017/07/12/c...-11-9-preview/

    Spoiler:
    Comic Crypt: BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER SEASON 11 #9 Preview

    Posted on July 12, 2017 by Michael Juvinall



    BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER SEASON 11 #9

    The great escape is underway as Buffy, Faith, and Willow infiltrate headquarters at the Safe Zone. Everything and everyone they expected to stop their mission is in the way. The question is, can two powerless girls and one Slayer succeed with these ridiculous odds? Elsewhere: unexpected vampire complications . . .

    * Featuring everyones favorite “bad” Slayer, Faith Lehane!

    “Any Buffy fan is going to be stoked about this new series, Season 11, and a new story arc of awesomeness!” -ComicWow!TV

    CREATORS
    ◾Writer: Christos Gage◾Penciller: Georges Jeanty◾Inker: Dexter Vines◾Colorist: Dan Jackson◾Cover Artist: Steve Morris
    Genre: Superhero, Horror, Action/Adventure

    ◾Publication Date: July 19, 2017◾Format: FC, 32 pages; Ongoing◾Price: $3.99◾UPC: 7 61568 00088 7 00911














    Preview pages for Angel # 7.

    https://horrorpatch.com/2017/07/12/c...-11-7-preview/

    Spoiler:
    Comic Crypt: ANGEL SEASON 11 #7 Preview

    Posted on July 12, 2017 by Michael Juvinall



    ANGEL SEASON 11 #7

    Featuring Angelus and Darla!

    On a ship filled with zombies, pirates, and a plague of zombie-creating beetles, Angel is torn between saving his past evil self–to save his own future–and making sure that the ship he is on never reaches land.

    “If the past is haunting Angel, theres no telling where this story can go, but Im eager to see where. The story is intriguing and the art top notch.”-SciFiPulse

    CREATORS
    ◾Writer: Corinna Bechko◾Artist: Ze Carlos◾Colorist: Michelle Madsen◾Cover Artist: Scott Fischer
    Genre: Superhero, Horror, Action/Adventure

    ◾Publication Date: July 19, 2017◾Format: FC, 32 pages; Ongoing◾Price: $3.99◾UPC: 7 61568 00112 9 00711













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    Kennedy would've brought a gun. Just saying.

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    Haven't we seen Kennedy use a gun a grand total of once, and against vampires at that? And why are you using the least popular character from the show to back up your argument?

    Now Simone? She would have brought a gun for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    How so?
    You can't abandon your value set on whims and then claim to uphold them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
    It was supposed to be a stealth mission, a quick in and out. They didn't bring assault rifles because they weren't expecting to run into Jordan. They were caught by surprise.
    Why'd she bring smoke bombs?

    Buffy will get her powers back before the season is over. Of course she will. That said, I don't get this DorothyFan1esque obsession with powers -as though a character with powers is just somehow "better". The quality of the story all depends on the writing. There are better characters than Buffy who have no powers, and shit characters with incredible powers. The best Angel comics featured Angel with no powers. Buffy's powers were at their strongest during the weakest part of season 8.
    Explain these characters that are better.

    Male characters don't need superpowers, btw. They can slay and magic and do everything a slayer does if they work out a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    You can't abandon your value set on whims and then claim to uphold them.

    - - - Updated - - -
    I'm not too sure what you mean by this?


    Why'd she bring smoke bombs?
    I assume she brought them as a "just in case" -as a precaution if they needed a distraction or getaway. Pretty sure they weren't expecting an actual confrontation with Jordan and her crew. And just because Faith is willing to throw a smoke bomb, that doesn't mean she's willing to gun down a bunch of people with an assault rifle. I'm not sure why that was even suggested?



    Explain these characters that are better.
    I'm not just talking exclusively about the Buffyverse here. A character doesn't need powers to be a worthwhile character, is my point.

    Male characters don't need superpowers, btw. They can slay and magic and do everything a slayer does if they work out a bit.
    Wood, Riley and Gunn are the top three normie human characters in terms of physical strength and fighting skill, and they don't even come close to being on par with a Slayer. They've dedicated countless hours training their bodies to top fighting shape, so to say they "work out a bit" is disingenuous, and it certainly doesn't make them on par with a Slayer. Unless you're talking about Billy, in which case you've got a valid point. As for magic, Giles's stuff is pretty weak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    You can't abandon your value set on whims and then claim to uphold them.
    Any particular value you have in mind?

    Why'd she bring smoke bombs?
    Because they could at least discreetly be secreted about her person? You may recall they were scanned on the way in; they may have had a magic box to protect the Scythe's presence, but I'm gonna guess if Faith had an MP5 or something under her jacket someone might have asked a question about that. I mean, I know it busts up a gratuitous line of complaint, but it's pretty much a total plot justification that bypasses any fussing about whether it's suddenly in character for Slayers on Buffy's side of any fight to carry (spoilers: it isn't. I'm almost certainly the biggest 2nd Amendment supporter and general firearm enthusiast on this forum, and am the first to agree to the logic that firearms have a place on the good guys' side in the Buffyverse, it's not Buffy's idiom and never has been, so it's a genuinely pointless thing to complain about unless you just have a need to find one).



    Male characters don't need superpowers, btw. They can slay and magic and do everything a slayer does if they work out a bit.
    Not only pouty nonsense, but objectively false pouty nonsense. "Badass Normal" in the Buffyverse is no match for a Slayer who isn't knowingly applying the "cardboard world" trope. Nor can you point to a single canonical event to the contrary. Even when Riley was under full enhanced influence of Maggie Walsh, you may recall Buffy was "holding back a little" when she sparred with him while still handly putting him on his ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
    Wood, Riley and Gunn are the top three normie human characters in terms of physical strength and fighting skill, and they don't even come close to being on par with a Slayer. They've dedicated countless hours training their bodies to top fighting shape, so to say they "work out a bit" is disingenuous, and it certainly doesn't make them on par with a Slayer. Unless you're talking about Billy, in which case you've got a valid point. As for magic, Giles's stuff is pretty weak.
    Even Billy is never shown as being literally a physical, martial match for a (ahem) real Slayer, either directly or in terms of countering a Slayer's typical adversaries. Him having been given a bizarre Slayer imprimatur from Sineya didn't give him the actual toolkit. I wouldn't frankly consider him much more proven in that regard than Xander is, and think that Riley or Wood or Gunn would take his head off in a real fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
    And just because Faith is willing to throw a smoke bomb, that doesn't mean she's willing to gun down a bunch of people with an assault rifle.
    And these bunch of people, for better or worse, are fellow Slayers...

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    Last I checked, Buffy and Faith don't mind killing "evil" slayers, do they? And, I mean, if it's OK to kill, say, Caleb, then why isn't it OK to kill Jordan? I thought that magically enhanced humans were a fair game?

    And why are you using the least popular character from the show to back up your argument?
    Because Kenn-doll is awesome! She's, like, the best slayer.

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    Buffy only tried to kill Faith when she found out that Slayer blood was the only thing that could save Angel. She didn't try to gut Faith "because she was evil", she only went for the kill when it was absolutely necessary in order to save Angel's life from a situation that Faith herself created.

    Nobody tried to kill Dana (as far as we know) despite the fact that she's a huge threat to anybody around her. Evil Slayer > crazy Slayer.

    Faith tried to whack Gigi on orders from Giles who told her that she was an apocalyptic threat. In hindsight, Angel wanted her dead too, so it's possible that Gigi was a possible candidate for the Twilight prophecy. At the very least, Gigi wanted to kill Buffy and even then Faith was a bucket of nerves when the time came to actually kill her. The killing blow was an accident and Faith begged Roden to revive her.

    Buffy didn't kill any of Simone's Slayer crew.

    Simone herself was a vampire when Buffy killed her.

    When was it ever established in the show/comics that it's okay to kill "evil" Slayers in non-self-defense situations like it would be with a vampire or demon? And make no mistake, this is not a self-defense situation, Buffy is trespassing.

    When has Buffy ever shown an interest in carrying guns around? How is that in-character for her at all?

    Jordan isn't an "evil" Slayer as far as we are aware. She's antagonistic, sure. She's even a bully. But as far as we know, she hasn't killed anyone or acted even illegally in any way. If the government told her tomorrow to release all the prisoners and shut down the Safe Zone, she'd comply. She's doing her job here. She would argue that her job is necessary for public safety. She's not overthrowing a town, she's not resurrecting Maloker, she's not murdering volcanologists. I don't think Buffy could justify gunning her down with assault rifles.

    When Buffy killed Caleb it was entirely in self defense. Also, he was the most evil person on the planet in addition to being a terrorist and mass murderer.

    In conclusion I don't know why you think Buffy would casually kill "evil" Slayers when she's never really taken that stance before outside of exceptional circumstances, I don't know why you think Buffy would use a gun, and I don't know how Jordan even remotely compares to Caleb.

    It's great that you like Kennedy, but you realize you're in the minority there, right?
    Last edited by Vampire in Rug; 15-07-17 at 06:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    Because Kenn-doll is awesome!
    Yes, she is!



    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
    It's great that you like Kennedy, but you realize you're in the minority there, right?
    I like Kennedy.

    She was good to Willow, she's answered her calling bravely, she is successful running her Deepscan company and she hasn't joined Jordan and Co.

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    I'd just like to say that if the IDW stuff was canon...

    Beck and Spider and Co. would probably break Spike out of the concentration camp and they could be support for Buffy and Co.

    Remember when Buffy was willing to kill Willow to save the world? ("Grave" (B 6.22))

    It seems Buffy never found out Angel ever reverted to 'Angelus'.

    So many things don't follow the canon of TV Buffyverse, Season 8, and even Season 9. Buffy and Willow would never put with losing their power. Riley would prevent such a thing.

    Buffy sent Spike with Wood when the Potentials Slayer became concerned about Triggered Spike. Buffy wouldn't prioritize Angel's well being over keeping Buffy and Co. and the entire Slayer Organization.

    The Initiative supported Buffy and Co. Since when would the US Government put Buffy and Willow in a concentration camp?

    Spike wiped out the Order of Aurelius. Spike beat on Faith for daring to usurp Buffy. Spike would never allow himself to be in a concentration camp.

    Finally, probably all of IDW could be ignored and one doesn't miss much.

    I still consider the possibly canonical IDW stuff to be canon; I also like Spike vs. Dracula given nothing contradicts canon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
    I'm not too sure what you mean by this?
    What's hard to understand? Buffy's real superpower is/was her strength of character, resolve and for lack of a better word, morality. She does not have that anymore after S8. It's one of those character consequences they'd rather not talk about it. An example would be what Willow said last issue while listing her virtues. You can no longer claim she wouldn't leave an innocent behind when she was fine doing just that. That check has been cashed. WWBD no longer applies.

    I assume she brought them as a "just in case" -as a precaution if they needed a distraction or getaway. Pretty sure they weren't expecting an actual confrontation with Jordan and her crew. And just because Faith is willing to throw a smoke bomb, that doesn't mean she's willing to gun down a bunch of people with an assault rifle. I'm not sure why that was even suggested?
    Just because you're carrying a gun doesn't mean you'll use it. She brought smoke bombs meaning she obviously expected the possibility of interaction. I don't believe she'd mow anyone down, either, but the threat is enough, especially with someone with her history.

    I'm not just talking exclusively about the Buffyverse here. A character doesn't need powers to be a worthwhile character, is my point.
    I don't think characters inherently need powers, either. But we ARE talking about the Buffyverse. Which goes into:

    Wood, Riley and Gunn are the top three normie human characters in terms of physical strength and fighting skill, and they don't even come close to being on par with a Slayer. They've dedicated countless hours training their bodies to top fighting shape, so to say they "work out a bit" is disingenuous, and it certainly doesn't make them on par with a Slayer. Unless you're talking about Billy, in which case you've got a valid point. As for magic, Giles's stuff is pretty weak.
    Buffy is not a top three normie character. And yes, I was referencing Billy. S9 is canon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    When has Buffy ever shown an interest in carrying guns around? How is that in-character for her at all?


    Then you have Sam suggesting it. Seems like a sidearm might be something useful to keep slayers back. Or you could just get your face rearranged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    What's hard to understand? Buffy's real superpower is/was her strength of character, resolve and for lack of a better word, morality. She does not have that anymore after S8. It's one of those character consequences they'd rather not talk about it. An example would be what Willow said last issue while listing her virtues. You can no longer claim she wouldn't leave an innocent behind when she was fine doing just that. That check has been cashed. WWBD no longer applies.
    I suppose, if one is making the really marginal choice to presume upon Buffy's perspective there -- her entire purpose was to avert the entirety of that future, and necessarily, the death of those people. It's that motive that is 100% of how she and Melaka came into conflict; Melaka was fighting to protect that which Buffy figured she could rewrite.

    Just because you're carrying a gun doesn't mean you'll use it. She brought smoke bombs meaning she obviously expected the possibility of interaction. I don't believe she'd mow anyone down, either, but the threat is enough, especially with someone with her history.
    Actually, if you wouldn't use it, you shouldn't ever, ever carry one, because you aren't mentally mature enough to do it, you are treating it like an accessory at that point, like it's a swatch. Serious people putting their lives at risk for covert ops don't carry around an extra couple pounds of unflexible weight because they thing... what... it might look cool? The smoke bombs were at least a contingency Faith was willing to carry out.

    Not to mention I pretty much definitively dismissed any argument for her having a firearm unless she had already broken cover to take it off someone on the base.

    Buffy is not a top three normie character. And yes, I was referencing Billy. S9 is canon.
    What is the argument you are trying to advance? Billy is not a 'badass normal' in any context, nor does he handle vampires in a way that could be mistaken for an actual Slayer or with any more proficiency than non-BA chars like Giles or Xander might.

    ... is not a gun. Is no more a firearm than a wisk is a billy club. That same one panel is followed shortly by one other panel in which it was used to disrupt a force-field. Pretty sure it's even covered in exposition as being only for that.

    Buffy has carried a firearm of sorts into a fight depending on it to save her life exactly twice that I can think of. One was the AT4 in "Innocence", their secret weapon against the Judge, and the other was the Initiative disruptor in "The I in Team" -- which was sabotaged. I suppose one could strain and count times she brought the tranq dart loaded rifle for werewolves.

    Again, this is something I'd be all for from a world-building standpoint, but the fact remains -- it is not their idiom. It is not the aesthetic of the Slayer from a Doylist standpoint, and it's not Buffy's own character and inclination. It would have been more believable for Sam to offer her a firearm and her to decline even against logic and her best interests than it would have been for Buffy to take it, let alone think of it on her own.

    EDIT: Buffy did also confiscate a rifle in "Homecoming", but I don't think she ever fired it, that only Cordelia did. I"ve always kinda fancied, justifying a bit from several scenes in Season 3, that Buffy and Slayers in general have a sort of preternatural understanding of weapons. Crossed my mind the way she so confidently handles Jonathan's rifle. But then she also holds the pistol in "Flooded" like it was made of a poop.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 16-07-17 at 08:24 AM.

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    Spoiler:

    I mean, I understand hating TV Kennedy but
    comics Kennedy? Literally flawless!


    Then you have Sam suggesting it. Seems like a sidearm might be something useful to keep slayers back. Or you could just get your face rearranged.


    Yeah and it's not exactly a new issue....

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    * Kennedy comes from a very wealthy family and the only reason the Slayers followed her instead of Buffy is because Buffy uncharacteristically didn't kill Angel after BtVS 8.39.


    * Buffy's clearly accomplished much more than Kennedy has. Buffy will be in history books--literally. Kennedy won't be.


    * Buffy's aversion to guns is because of their relative uselessness against the average demon Buffy faces and kills; Bullets being able to kill New Rules Vampires and bullets being able to kill zompires has always been beyond silly.

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    Here they are posted out.

    Spoiler:





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    This is great! Blood, biting, eye gouging (classic Buffy move!) - Jeanty crushes those dense, violent action scenes and look at the paneling! So awesome! And Willow! It's like, she just made Buffy a slayer again, how cool is that? Hey, maybe she'll be able to restore her coven as well? Wednesday can't come soon enough!
    Last edited by a thing of evil; 18-07-17 at 01:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    This is great! Blood, biting, eye gouging (classic Buffy move!) - Jeanty crushes those dense, violent action scenes and look at the paneling! So awesome! And Willow! It's like, she just made Buffy a slayer again, how cool is that? Hey, maybe she'll be able to restore her coven as well? Wednesday can't come soon enough!
    What's that old axiom? Change the channel and the pain will cease? Sure you can modify it for a print or digital reading format pretty easily. And for message boards, for that matter.

    Actually, the eye gouge is the first thing that leapt out in a positive way, because of course Buffy would know to do all the dirty little-sister cheating moves trying to fight someone who has the powers she all but defined the range of.

    Think the power restoration comes off as a bit too easy, though, unless there are several pages between prior issue and there of harrowing escapes and survival at the very least.

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