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Thread: 2016 United States Presidential Election.

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    Default 2016 United States Presidential Election.

    So, Donald Trump won the first Republican Primary debates. Carly Fiorina spoke well and is clearly articulate, but apparently she said she'd be willing to shut down the government merely to try to defund Planned Parenthood. And her main accomplishment is making Hewlett Packard worse off than when she became CEO of that company. One of the main reasons she lost in her 2010 Senatorial run is because she embraced the Tea Party. The other 'lower 7' are simply not viable.

    These results are perhaps telling:

    47% Voted Donald Trump.
    The 10 leading Republican presidential candidates took the stage for their first debate Thursday night. Who do you think won?
    Donald Trump
    (32681 Votes)
    47%
    Jeb Bush
    (3447 Votes)
    5%
    Ben Carson
    (7912 Votes)
    11%
    Chris Christie
    (1931 Votes)
    3%
    Ted Cruz
    (3513 Votes)
    5%
    Mike Huckabee
    (1998 Votes)
    3%
    John Kasich
    (6131 Votes)
    9%
    Rand Paul
    (3563 Votes)
    5%
    Marco Rubio
    (7272 Votes)
    10%
    Scott Walker
    (908 Votes)
    1%

    http://time.com/3988073/republican-d...fox-first-gop/

    People seem to know Scott Walker is in the pocket of the Koch Brothers. And his opposition to abortions seems to include -- if I remember correctly -- when the LIFE OF THE MOTHER is at risk. The United States doesn't want the EPA weakened; the US knows Global Warming/Climate Change is a problem. They don't want a Koch Brothers Administration.

    Chris Christie is simply no longer viable. The Bridegate stuff. Begging for and then taking federal money (aka other peoples' tax dollars) after Hurricane Katrina after lowering taxes in New Jersey. Other stuff. Anyway, why have him when the country can have Hilary Clinton. Christie would simply get crushed by her.

    The US now supports gay marriage. The Unites States doesn't support Mike Huckabee's views on how his religious views should shape US policy.

    Ted Cruz throws "red meat", he's Canadian, and he simply isn't respected.

    The United States doesn't want another Bush in the White House. And the United States hasn't forgotten that Jeb Bush perhaps is more responsible for his brother's 'win' in 2000 C.E. than the United States Supreme Court is. The US is also learning that Jeb isn't actually a 'moderate'.

    Anyway, being a 'moderate' is a GOOD THING and is actually a plus for Donald Trump. It's not a jab when he's considered perhaps to be a Democrat and that he gave financially to both parties. Republicans make up around 25% of the voting population http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx . Senator John McCain was too 'conservative' to win. Former Governor Mitt Romney was too 'conservative' to win. Except for perhaps Donald Trump on some issues, it seems all the candidates on the Republican side are even more 'conservative'.

    Of the people on the Republican side, I actually now support Donald Trump. At least we know he's not going to be in the pocket of the any of the following: the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Aldenson, perhaps the big banks. Unlike the other candidates, I remember his saying that the United States should take care of the citizens who can't take care of themselves. The others essentially said, F them and gave the platitude of 'grow the economy'.

    Regarding immigration, the United States should be focusing on getting the creme de la creme of immigrants. And low skilled illegals are exploited by the business community and farmers and used for politics by the Democrats. The only problem with the rhetoric from the Republican candidates is the focus on the Hispanics instead of the total problem of illegal immigration. Anyway, other than Jeb Bush, the other candidates seem to be as anti-illegal immigration or even more anti-illegal immigration than Donald.


    On the Democratic side, Senator Bernie Sanders would be better for the domestic stuff although Social Security and Medicare do need reform. Hilary Clinton probably can negotiate better than President Barack Obama but she lost in 2008 C.E. because of her hawkish ways. Why can't President William Jefferson Clinton run again? He'd win in a landslide.

    The biggest disappointment in the debate was there was zero mention of the student loan debt problem. I want a candidate who will rid of all the 'for-profit' colleges and spend money making more universities. More competition would lower costs for students. And education should be a national priority.

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    http://time.com/4003734/donald-trump...ew-transcript/

    Currently, I'm liking the idea of a Senator Bernie Sanders vs. Donald Trump United States Presidential Election.

    Donald and Senator Sanders actually seem genuine.

    The other Republican Presidential candidates are all terrible and would all be awful if elected President. Hilary Clinton is already having problems and she's kinda Senator Bernie Sander light mixed in with a hawk.

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    http://time.com/4043482/scott-walker-campaign-end/

    YEAH!! All the United States Republican Presidential candidates are terrible and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is arguably the worst. The 2nd Republican Presidential debate was beyond troubling with things such as Jeb Bush saying United States President George W. Bush kept the US safe and NO ONE contradicting that appalling statement (9/11, the war in Iraq, Katrina) and Governor Scott Walker spouting how education is so important and NO ONE contradicting him (Governor Walker took $250MM out of Wisconsin's higher education budget and then essentially gave around $300MM to two billionaires for a basketball stadium for a very crappy basketball team).

    I hope the Democrats keep the Presidency and I hope they regain the United States Senate.

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/29/up...-managers.html

    There goes my support for Donald Trump and there goes a lot of Independent and Democratic support for Mr. Trump.

    Hilary Clinton, United States Vice President Joe Biden, and United States Senator Bernie Sanders each would very likely beat any of the Republican Presidential candidates in the United States Presidential Election.

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    http://time.com/4071956/democratic-d...-poll-who-won/

    The 5 Democratic presidential candidates took to the stage for a debate Tuesday night. Who do you think won?

    Jim Webb 30 %
    Bernie Sanders 56 %
    Hillary Clinton 11 %
    Lincoln Chafee 1 %
    Martin O'Malley 2 %

    162,380 Votes

    These are shocking numbers but perhaps many of those Jim Webb votes are from Republicans given he was far more 'to the right' (at least in tone) of the other candidates.

    I consider Hillary Clinton handily won the debate. United States Senator Bernie Sanders did not do well regarding gun control questions and regarding foreign policy questions.

    Hillary Clinton actually had a good retort regarding her not wanting to reimpose a form of Glass-Steagall.

    Foreign policy is a huge portion of the United States President's job; consequently, Bernie Sanders relatively poor responses and arguments regarding foreign policy considerably hurt him in my estimation.

    Considering how Vladimir Putin is acting and considering how the Chinese are acting, Hillary Clinton's Iraq vote is less of a problem because she would be a stronger world leader than Bernie would.

    EDIT:

    Well, apparently, the 'consensus' is that Hillary Clinton handily won the debate: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/us...ers-biden.html

    Hillary not only effectively 'pushed back' against Senator Bernie Sanders, she effectively ended the 'need' for United States Vice President Joe Biden to enter the race; in addition, the main other candidates (aside from Lincoln Chafee) essentially dismissed the 'Clinton email scandal' and 'Benghazi' would similarly hurt Vice President Biden as well.
    Last edited by MikeB; 14-10-15 at 02:37 PM.

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    Not sure how accurately you are using the word "consensus". Focus groups and such seem pretty split.

    I didn't hear anything from that debate that didn't reinforce how little this country needs any of those five to be President. What I find especially bizarre is that Sanders was apparently "soft" on guns even though this past week he endorsed the comically and entirely radical fringe notion that a product manufacturer should be civilly, even criminally liable for the intentional criminal acts of third parties well down the stream of commerce. Even the ideologically driven "Law & Order" episode that idea got stolen from had the good sense to write the judge as throwing out the claim -- it runs contrary to pretty much every precept of culpability in our justice system. But that was him being "soft" on guns.

    No mystery probably, but I am a pretty forceful 2A advocate and a gun owner, so I looked at that stage and saw at least a couple people that I genuinely think the Constitution was adopted to protect against.

    I digress. Contrary to what you say, there probably has never been more likelihood that Biden gets in than after that debate, because he is probably an immediate frontrunner on that side.

    On the GOP side the non-pols continue to lead because much or most of the center-right and right in the country have cashed out on the party's made men and women as having failed in almost every objective for which they were elected. As ludicrous as it still seems, Trump may end up the nominee, there really isn't much budge in his numbers. I think Carson or Fiorina could overtake him if support from lesser candidates coalesces around one of them, and I still think one or the other has to be on the ticket in the general. Rubio and Cruz are probably the only pols I think can go the distance. Not ruling out that the GOP side turns into a convention fight in Cleveland.

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    KingofCretins

    I didn't hear anything from that debate that didn't reinforce how little this country needs any of those five to be President.
    Do you prefer one or more of the Republican Presidential nominees? And if so, which one(s)?

    the comically and entirely radical fringe notion that a product manufacturer should be civilly, even criminally liable for the intentional criminal acts of third parties well down the stream of commerce.
    Well, certainly the NRA (National Rifle Association) needs to be reigned in.

    Even the ideologically driven "Law & Order"
    Law & Order is a 'conservative' TV series. It is a big part of the problem regarding much of the American public assuming most people get 'fair trials'.

    No mystery probably, but I am a pretty forceful 2A advocate and a gun owner, so I looked at that stage and saw at least a couple people that I genuinely think the Constitution was adopted to protect against.
    Have you read The Federalist Papers and do you know of Shay's Rebellion? Essentially, The Constitution says that Cliven Bundy and the rest who pointed weapons at federal agents probably should have all been killed and at the very least thrown in federal prison. Shay's Rebellion is one of the main reasons for the US Constitution.

    Are you opposed to background checks? I'm a gun owner (5 guns) and have a concealed carry permit. I also have keypad gun safes. I'm very opposed to the 'gun show loophole' and all other type loopholes and I reason that all guns should be registered with the Federal Government and the Government should know who has what guns.

    Contrary to what you say, there probably has never been more likelihood that Biden gets in than after that debate, because he is probably an immediate frontrunner on that side.
    That's silly and I already explained why.

    On the GOP side the non-pols continue to lead because much or most of the center-right and right in the country have cashed out on the party's made men and women as having failed in almost every objective for which they were elected.
    Republicans are a relatively small portion of the voting population. Including the 'leaners', Democrats have around a 9 point advantage. (http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/...y-affiliation/) Those actually registered as Republicans are around 20-25% of the voting population depending on the year.

    Much of the 'center-right' are likely going to vote for Hillary Clinton and she likely got further support after the debate.

    As ludicrous as it still seems, Trump may end up the nominee, there really isn't much budge in his numbers.
    Well, look at the competition; nevertheless, it is still very early and Donald Trump wouldn't win a General Election against any of the following: Hillary Clinton, Senator Bernie Sanders, and Vice President Joe Biden.

    I think Carson or Fiorina could overtake him if support from lesser candidates coalesces around one of them, and I still think one or the other has to be on the ticket in the general.
    The Republicans will certainly lose if Ben Carson is on the ticket.

    Carly Fiorina largely lost in the US Senate race for California because she embraced the Tea Party and voters were made informed of her time at Hewitt Packard. Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin was actually a good Governor of Alaska and she was a good Mayor. Carly Fiorina will hurt the Republican ticket more than Sarah Palin did because Cary Fiorina has zero government experience and she was such a terrible executive that essentially no one hired her after she was fired from Hewitt Packard.

    Rubio and Cruz are probably the only pols I think can go the distance.
    United States Senator Ted Cruz is only continuing in the race because of the support of few billionaires. The Republican Presidential nominee would have 'slaughtered' in the general election if Senator Cruz is on the ticket. Remember that United States Congressperson Paul Ryan hurt the Mitt Romney ticket and Senator Cruz is much worse.

    The Senator Marco Rubio praise in the media has been rather silly. He was terrible in the debate given he seemed nervous, was sweating, lacked confidence, had little poise, and clearly would be terrible as the leader of 'the free world'. Unless he eventually develops the debating skills of Hillary Clinton, he would get creamed in the Presidential debates.

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    http://time.com/4032797/sanders-surg...hire-cbs-poll/

    Also noteworthy is Sanders’s strong support—70%—among independents, a group that is particularly prevalent in New Hampshire.
    So, apparently, George Soros actually owes around $6-7B in back taxes.

    I don't know too many people who are actually excited about Hilary Clinton. It's much more simply, 'She'd be much better than any of the Republican candidates.' The Republican Presidential candidates' policies are so crazy and so out-of-touch with most voters that it actually seems possible United States Senator Bernie Sanders could actually win the United States Presidential Election.

    Medicare for All can be relatively easily sold. His foreign policy seems more in line with what the average voter wants. Even his relative gun support is more in line with the average voter than Hilary Clinton's position.

    But if Democrats in places States that can give won more support Sanders than Clinton, and if Independents can support Sanders over the Republican candidates, he'd be much better for the country than Hilary Clinton.

    Regarding Hilary's supposedly being a better candidate than in 2008 C.E. because of her Secretary of State experience; overall, it seems Secretary of State John Kerry is because doing a better job than she did.

    Given the United States House of Representatives is likely to remain Republican-controlled, a Sanders Presidency would have a check on it. Obama won in 2008 C.E. partly because of excitement among the young and other kinds of people who didn't normally vote in Presidential elections.

    So, if Bernie wins both the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, and wins with sizable leads, that gives him a ton of credibility for the General Election.

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    Here's a decent 'how liberal or conservative are you' quiz: http://www.people-press.org/quiz/political-typology/ . It's by the Pew Research Center.

    I got
    Your best fit is...
    Next Generation Left
    along with 12% of the public.
    http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/...d-red-vs-blue/

    http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/...on-preference/

    The United States Supreme Court's decisions regarding Citizens United and the Voting Rights Act need to be overturned. Abortion needs to continue to be legal. SCOTUS needs to be a little more 'liberal' than it currently is. If Michael Bloomberg would choose at least 'Left of Center' Justices, I'd probably support him over Hilary Clinton. Are young people actually going to vote in Mid-Term Elections during a Bernie Sanders Presidency? Democratic voters didn't even bother to thank President Obama during the Mid-Term Elections. The problem with a 'political revolution' is that it needs to be able to be sustained during non-Presidental Election years.

    The choices on the Republican side are simply horrendous. Hilary Clinton is clearly a better choice than all of them unless one wants the United States National Debt to explode or the social safety net to be dismantled, the United States to be hated again, Roe vs. Wade being overturned and SCOTUS getting even more 'extreme', the environment getting much worse, etc.

    If Democrats and Independents actually vote during Mid-Term Elections, Bernie Sanders would be a better choice than Hilary Clinton.
    Last edited by MikeB; 02-02-16 at 05:21 AM. Reason: had done the quoting incorrectly

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    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...d-results.html

    US Senator Bernie Sanders does better among those under 65 years of age than does Hilary Clinton and he does much better among Independents than does Hilary Clinton. He obviously does much better among those who consider themselves liberal. He does better against Donald Trump and US Senator Ted Cruz than does Hilary Clinton. US Senator Marco Rubio is terrible at debating. US Senator Bernie Sanders would beat him.

    So far, the only way Hilary Clinton beats Senator Sanders is if the superdelegates and black primary voters give the nomination to her.

    The only area in which Hilary Clinton was possibly better than Senator Sanders is in foreign policy. But that was taken away as soon as Senator Sanders seemed to take heed of Bill Maher's position regarding who should be fighting in the Middle East (Muslims), how high taxes should be (top rate well below 70%), and as soon as United States Secretary of State John Kerry seemed to be doing a better job than Hilary Clinton did.

    - Also, I assume Hilary knows that the main reason United States President-elect Barack Obama chose her to be his Secretary of State is to neutralize her chances of running against him in 2012 C.E. If he actually fully trusted her 'judgement' and whatever else, he would have made her his Vice President and given her a lot of power. Instead, he decided to choose US Senator Joseph Biden.


    The Republican Primaries continue to be a mess. Donald Trump remains the frontrunner and only lost in Iowa because he essentially had no 'ground game'. A little 'retail politics' and spending some money and effort on a 'ground game' in New Hampshire had him winning handily.

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    You are profoundly kidding yourself if you don't realize Clinton will be the nominee. The entire Democrat nominating process is political kabuki theatre, she has a sufficient lead in super delegates before it even started that it is already over. That stunning and dominant performance by Sanders in NH? Yeah, no -- Hillary leaves NH with 15 delegates to Sanders' 13.

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    There essentially wasn't anything new from the last Democratic Primary debate.

    It's possible Hilary Clinton is trying to get US President Barack Obama's endorsement. But is being the heir to Barack Obama as good as being the heir to Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin Delano Roosevelt?

    A leader should be inspiring. Hilary Clinton offers 'things will be a little better than before' and 'my Presidency will be much better than the Republican Presidency'. Such is what re-elected US President Barack Obama. And Obama was never the hawk that Clinton is.

    In the last debate (PBS Newshour Wisconsin Debate) Hilary Clinton debated better than Senator Sanders but Senator Sander's overall message resonates better and with more people than does Clinton's message.

    Hilary Clinton largely only won the first Democratic Debate and that's because she did much better on the foreign policy questions and her debate performance resulted in US Vice President Joseph Biden deciding not to run for President. Since then, I remember Senator Sanders doing very well.

    Barack Obama beat US Senator John McCain. Why would the Democratic National Committee and other members of 'the Democratic Establishment' possibly be concerned regarding US Senator Bernie Sanders's chances against any of the Republicans still running for President?

    Finally, it is disappointing that Asian-Americans are so little discussed during the debates and on the campaign trail. And it is disappointing that Asian-Americans hardly ever are listed when one mentions 'minorities'.




    KingofCretins

    You are profoundly kidding yourself if you don't realize Clinton will be the nominee.
    Hilary Clinton lost to then-US Senator Barack Obama in 2008 C.E.

    The entire Democrat nominating process is political kabuki theatre, she has a sufficient lead in super delegates before it even started that it is already over.
    I said this: “So far, the only way Hilary Clinton beats Senator Sanders is if the superdelegates and black primary voters give the nomination to her.”

    Hilary Clinton in 2008 C.E. had huge support among the superdelegates to the point that Barack Obama’s campaign had to essentially shame them into not simply ‘giving’ the nomination to Hilary Clinton. Similar can happen in 2016 C.E.

    That stunning and dominant performance by Sanders in NH? Yeah, no -- Hillary leaves NH with 15 delegates to Sanders' 13.
    I don’t from where you got your ‘information’. On here: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...d-results.html Sanders is listed as getting 15 delegates and Clinton is listed as getting 9.

    Anyway, are you going to say whom you are supporting for the US Presidency?

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    Sounds great in theory, Mike, really does -- but the simple fact is, that despite two near-ties and one royal asskicking by Bernie, Hillary has a delegate lead of 502-70. It's not getting any smaller and in fact conventional wisdom is rising that Sanders is effectively out of the race after the South Carolina primary. The Democrat nomination has been fait accompli since day one, there was never a scenario by which Sanders was going to be allowed by the DNC to be the nominee, no matter what the votes were. The superdelegates were in the bag and it was over last year.

    As for the GOP nomination, also starting to look like a foregone conclusion, just with the satisfaction of knowing that the voters did have a say in the outcome (as proven by it being the person the party probably least wants to be the nominee).

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    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...d-results.html

    It seems the African-Americans have given the Democratic Presidential nomination to Hilary Clinton.

    With the relatively big loss in Ohio, US Senator Bernie Sanders essentially now has no path to the nomination. It's probably unlikely New York is going to support Sanders over Hilary Clinton. And California will probably also support Clinton over Sanders.



    KingofCretins

    Someone like US Senator Bernie Sanders or US Senator Elizabeth Warren is going to have to be Hilary Clinton's Vice Presidential candidate.

    Do you support Donald Trump?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...d-results.html

    It seems the African-Americans have given the Democratic Presidential nomination to Hilary Clinton.

    With the relatively big loss in Ohio, US Senator Bernie Sanders essentially now has no path to the nomination. It's probably unlikely New York is going to support Sanders over Hilary Clinton. And California will probably also support Clinton over Sanders.
    Well, at least the performance piece of the primaries have caught up to the superdelegate reality, but I doubt Bernie is going anywhere any time soon. Someone somehow has to figure out some way to get the enthusiasm for Bernie to transfer over to Hillary, which seems about as dubious as getting people excited about Jeb Bush.

    KingofCretins

    Someone like US Senator Bernie Sanders or US Senator Elizabeth Warren is going to have to be Hilary Clinton's Vice Presidential candidate.
    Can't have enough old white folk, right? Heh.

    Do you support Donald Trump?
    I voted for Cruz in my state's primary. July is a long way off.

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    I'm not one for following politics much but I, like a lot of the world I think, am watching horrified that Trump is even a possibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I'm not one for following politics much but I, like a lot of the world I think, am watching horrified that Trump is even a possibility.
    I think he is a 50/50 toss or better, for good or ill. He has proven 100% immune to all conventional wisdom of political campaigning in the US. He doesn't have nine lives, he has nine cats' worth.

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    I read this the other day which sums up a lot of what I feel about Trump. - http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/loui...us-1201723679/

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    Trump's success just proves that there's a lot of truly hate-filled, racist, ignorant and utterly foolish people in the US. That's all it tells me unfortunately. This man wants to murder terrorist's families because they're guilty by association, he wants to ban all people of the muslim faith from the country, he compared Mexicans to rapists, he has mocked disabled people, he is is brazenly misogynistic, he boasts of stories about killing muslims with pig's blood-soaked bullets, he actually said he'd be dating his daughter if he weren't her father, he blatantly lies, he's a petulant child... and this actually appeals to some people. He is literally feeding on their hatred and their ignorance rather than appeal to their goodness. He is a truly despicable human being and anyone who votes for him is utter trash.

    It's so disheartening to see that he has even made it this far. It's a sad reflection of how many hateful people there truly must be in the country. How anyone could support a man who has said the putrid ignorant things he had is utterly beyond me but it just proves that they're not any better themselves. The real test for America now is whether or not the good, kind and intelligent people outweigh the bad. I guess we'll see.
    "You've got ... a world of strength in your heart. I know you do. You just have to find it again. Believe in yourself."

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    Even if stipulating to everything you said in your first paragraph, that really doesn't leave 'good, kind and intelligent people' anywhere to go in a Trump v. Clinton election, unless that refers to the Gary Johnson voters.

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