View Poll Results: What has your preference

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  • All challenges should end with feedback

    1 16.67%
  • Only standard challenges should end with feedback

    1 16.67%
  • Only throwback challenges should end with feedback

    0 0%
  • All challenges should end with awards

    2 33.33%
  • Only standard challenges should end with awards

    2 33.33%
  • All challenges should end with a poll

    1 16.67%
  • Only standard challenges should end with a poll

    0 0%
  • Only throwback challenges should end with a poll

    1 16.67%
  • All challenges should be closed directly after the deadline

    0 0%
  • Only standard challenges should be closed directly after the deadline

    0 0%
  • Only throwback challenges should be closed directly after the deadline

    0 0%
  • All challenges should end with a discussion only

    1 16.67%
  • Only standard challenges should end with a discussion only

    0 0%
  • Only throwback challenges should end with a discussion only

    2 33.33%
  • I've another idea!

    0 0%
  • "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. "

    1 16.67%
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Thread: What should the host do at the end of a challenge?

  1. #1
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    Default What should the host do at the end of a challenge?

    Since we had the big BF renaissance last year some things changed. We used to have awards at the end of every challenge but members voted in big numbers for less (or no) awards and the return of feedback. Almost a year full of feedback later we have to conclude that the amazing hosts wrote hours of feedback but that most members show little to no interest in the written feedback. Also the list with members who want to host has only three people on it at the moment. So it's not like a lot of people enjoy hosting more now they have to write loads of feedback either. And to make the throwback challenges less of a burden for the moderators we wanted to introduce the poll at the end of every throwback challenge and hope that people will discuss/explain their vote to have some sort of ending. Thanks to Cil we also have a thread with prompts but no elements of a challenge (ranking, polling, etc.) only that one isn't super popular either.

    So we're kind of stuck. What is the best way to end a challenge according to you?

    Feedback FTW!
    Yes it's quiet at the moment but it's easily the most helpful way of ending a challenge. Nobody is demotivated by ending last, people learn a lot of writing and reading feedback and it's nice to know that somebody is going to take the time to study your entry and perhaps catch all the symbolism and deeper ideas. Problem is that it takes hours to write feedback and only a few people care about it. It's no fun doing it when you are a host because it feels like you are wasting your time because of the lack of reaction to it.

    Bring back the awards!
    The awards should return, perhaps an updated version where not everybody gets one and where there is more attention for different aspects of making fanart? Or just old-school.... a lot of awards, just like before because it's fun. Only it's not as helpful as feedback and nobody has time for awards and feedback.

    And my vote goes to...a poll!
    Recently people came up with the idea to do a poll because it does not require a lot of work for the host and there is still something to officially end a challenge. Perhaps it kicks off a discussion, or at least invites people to post about why they voted for [insert name]. Negative thing about the poll is that somebody will end last, and perhaps the same people end up last every single time. And that is not all that funny and it certainly doesn't help people motivate themselves to post more stuff. Plus nobody learns anything in contrast to feedback.

    Oh let's talk about it in a discussion!
    We don't need awards, feedback or a poll... let's just talk abut the entries and give eachother feedback. It costs less time and we can end up having great conversations. Only issue is that most people prefer to press the 'Thanks' button and not the 'Reply' button. These discussions can end up being really short.... like zero posts.

    Nothing, nada...
    Challenges are fun because it's a prompt and you can show your wallpapers to the world. But let's leave it at that... no winner, no feedback. It's not needed and only costs time, the fun is all about entering a challenge. After the deadline the mods should close the thread and move it to dead threads. The only problem is that we already have something like that around here, so what is the whole point of the challenges?

    A brand new idea!
    The option for creative people who thought of something else and who want to share this with us!


    Your vote (and/or post) is very much appreciated.

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  3. #2
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    I like the idea of everyone giving feedback. Everyone knows how scared I am of giving feedback, so it would take the pressure of the host a little. But I also like the host giving back in some way, not necessarily awards, but I liked the little things that a host would take time to make for me, it felt almost like a 'thank you', which is why I still make something, even if it's not awards with numbers on 'em.

    I agree that a poll might not be the best solution. It's not a nice feeling when you're overlooked, even though it's happened to use all, and a poll just shines a spotlight on that.

    Didn't we use to have something where you weren't allowed to post a piece of art unless you gave feedback to a certain number of people who posted before you? I never posted in it because, like I said, scared, but what if we had something like that? Maybe for the throwback challenges, if it was a moderator hosted challenge, the moderator in question would post the first piece of art made for that challenge, the next person to post their art, gave feedback to the host, then the next person gave feedback to the person above them and so on and so on. Or even if you wanted to cut the moderator out, it might still be an idea - if you're entering a challenge, you must give feedback to the person who posted directly before you. Just a thought.
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  5. #3
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    That is an interesting idea, I think that could be truly a good solution for the Throwback Challenges (and if it works there, we could even think about introducing it in the regular challenges as well in case more people want the awards back). Is it an idea to have a seperate thread for feedback? So people can talk about the feedback without using the challenge thread for conversations? Or would that increase the risk that some people do not post feedback before they enter an entry?


    Personally I went with awards and/or feedback for the regular challenges and a poll/discussion for the throwback challenges. Mostly because I think throwback challenges shouldn't be a lot of work otherwise nobody wants to host those nor do I think it should stop a host from entering in that challenge. But yes in general I still think that feedback > Awards >>> Poll/Discussion. If your plan is popular and works it's a great way of making sure that entries gets feedback but without the host having to sit down for hours to write it all.

  6. #4
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    I really don't know what to vote because I don't really differentiate between any of the challenges. I suppose if you are wanting the throwback ones to be lighter on the admin then removing feedback is a must. I think the downside of providing feedback to the one before when you post is that people might try to avoid posting until one they like is posted (so feedback is easier) or they might be put off posting at all because an extra task is involved. There are likely to be downsides, mixed reactions, to anything we think of of course! The problem is that with virtually noone speaking up about what they prefer as a host or an entrant we are left just guessing what will work the best overall.

    Maybe a set of standard questions could be used for feedback/discussion at the end, asking people for their favourite use of colour, use of text, use of images, use of textures, best challenge fit and people would also be free to add other comments too. It would be a softer way of doing it rather than a poll which starkly tallies up your popularity! The issue as always is whether people come back on and do it and, as it is always the same tiny group of us discussing this, I suspect most won't. Something else is worth a try of course to at the very least get a low admin option that works a bit differently, if people respond well that would be a bonus.

    As for the main challenges I do think you need something directly from the host as they set the challenge. Feedback is the best way to avoid people feeling unappreciated, but it unavoidable does take time. If people don't want to discuss the feedback afterwards they don't have to but I'm not even sure people go on and read the feedback if they don't even thank the host for doing it. And that is the problem with all of this, the two way interactiveness, or quite obviously, the lack thereof. The entrants want to feel that their efforts were noticed even if their piece isn't the most popular and the host wants to feel that people enjoyed the challenge and appreciated their efforts to judge awards and/or respond to each entry. My gut reaction is that it should be up to the host what time they put in for either rewards or feedback, or to do both if they like. What we can't do is make people come on after and say thanks to the host or discuss the entries. If people started doing it then others might join in, but at some point it simply boils down to the fact of whether people want to or not.
    Last edited by Stoney; 29-05-15 at 07:16 PM.

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  8. #5
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    I am ok with any options, I just like the challenge itself. But I guess the most logical for me is Nina's suggestion about poll for throwbacks and feedback/awards for regular ones.

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    That is an interesting idea, I think that could be truly a good solution for the Throwback Challenges (and if it works there, we could even think about introducing it in the regular challenges as well in case more people want the awards back). Is it an idea to have a seperate thread for feedback? So people can talk about the feedback without using the challenge thread for conversations? Or would that increase the risk that some people do not post feedback before they enter an entry?


    Personally I went with awards and/or feedback for the regular challenges and a poll/discussion for the throwback challenges. Mostly because I think throwback challenges shouldn't be a lot of work otherwise nobody wants to host those nor do I think it should stop a host from entering in that challenge. But yes in general I still think that feedback > Awards >>> Poll/Discussion. If your plan is popular and works it's a great way of making sure that entries gets feedback but without the host having to sit down for hours to write it all.

    Would it be possible for anyone who wants to enter a challenge also have the option of not being listed in the poll? It's a way of allowing members like myself who would like to enter a challenge but want nothing to do with polls or awards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I really don't know what to vote because I don't really differentiate between any of the challenges. I suppose if you are wanting the throwback ones to be lighter on the admin then removing feedback is a must. I think the downside of providing feedback to the one before when you post is that people might try to avoid posting until one they like is posted (so feedback is easier) or they might be put off posting at all because an extra task is involved. There are likely to be downsides, mixed reactions, to anything we think of of course! The problem is that with virtually noone speaking up about what they prefer as a host or an entrant we are left just guessing what will work the best overall.

    Maybe a set of standard questions could be used for feedback/discussion at the end, asking people for their favourite use of colour, use of text, use of images, use of textures, best challenge fit and people would also be free to add other comments too. It would be a softer way of doing it rather than a poll which starkly tallies up your popularity! The issue as always is whether people come back on and do it and, as it is always the same tiny group of us discussing this, I suspect most won't. Something else is worth a try of course to at the very least get a low admin option that works a bit differently, if people respond well that would be a bonus.

    As for the main challenges I do think you need something directly from the host as they set the challenge. Feedback is the best way to avoid people feeling unappreciated, but it unavoidable does take time. If people don't want to discuss the feedback afterwards they don't have to but I'm not even sure people go on and read the feedback if they don't even thank the host for doing it. And that is the problem with all of this, the two way interactiveness, or quite obviously, the lack thereof. The entrants want to feel that their efforts were noticed even if their piece isn't the most popular and the host wants to feel that people enjoyed the challenge and appreciated their efforts to judge awards and/or respond to each entry. My gut reaction is that it should be up to the host what time they put in for either rewards or feedback, or to do both if they like. What we can't do is make people come on after and say thanks to the host or discuss the entries. If people started doing it then others might join in, but at some point it simply boils down to the fact of whether people want to or not.
    I think a list of questions is a very good way to go - it would make it easier for people to join the discussions and give feed back - and people who want to add more to the discussion can go beyond the prompt questions.

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cil_domney View Post
    Would it be possible for anyone who wants to enter a challenge also have the option of not being listed in the poll? It's a way of allowing members like myself who would like to enter a challenge but want nothing to do with polls or awards.
    I don't know, if more people like this idea we can do it. But I do not like it, a challenge should end with something that involves all entries IMO. What's the point of a poll or awards for the best entries when some entries can't be awarded or voted for? I do understand that a poll can be problematic in this sense because you can see the whole ranking and I do think people should consider that before they choose a poll over something else to end. In the case of awards it's less of a problem because many end up without any award. Nobody ends last and it's always the opinion of only one person. Big chance that the next person would award different entries. We had awards for years and almost everybody had to go through that phase of not winning anything because you had to compete with people who had a lot more experience, I think I waited more than a year for my first award and years before my first victory. Winning an award was a kick and not winning one was not a big deal because many people barely ever won anything, at least that's how I remember it. Not saying that it feels great when you never win anything but it's not nearly as confronting as ending last in a poll.


    If we go with questions to get a discussion going, what would be question people would love to see in the standard list?

    Stoney already opted for:
    • Favourite use of colour
    • Favorite use of text
    • Favorite use of images
    • Favorite use of textures
    • Best challenge fit


    Personally I like these ones and I would like to add 'use of composition' to the list. And perhaps also a question about the subject or the ideas behind the wallpaper, the concept.

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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I think I waited more than a year for my first award and years before my first victory. Winning an award was a kick and not winning one was not a big deal because many people barely ever won anything, at least that's how I remember it. Not saying that it feels great when you never win anything but it's not nearly as confronting as ending last in a poll.
    This. Winning was a nice little pat on the back, but not winning an award never really made me feel discouraged. It just meant that the host didn't like what I did and that I should try something different next time.

    In fact, the only time I ever felt a little anxious about awards was when I was the one who was hosting, lol. It always made me feel bad if I left people out when it came to awards, because I didn't want them to think that I didn't like what they did.

    What if, when it comes to awards, the host hands out awards for first, second and third? I've seen awards going on into 5th, 10th, 15th place, of course this was when the challenges created more interest, but there would have still been people left out like there are now, which I think made that feeling out rejection even worse. I think, if we are doing awards, it needs to have a firm outline. 1st, 2nd and 3rd places only.


    If we go with questions to get a discussion going, what would be question people would love to see in the standard list?

    Stoney already opted for:
    • Favourite use of colour
    • Favorite use of text
    • Favorite use of images
    • Favorite use of textures
    • Best challenge fit


    Personally I like these ones and I would like to add 'use of composition' to the list. And perhaps also a question about the subject or the ideas behind the wallpaper, the concept.
    I like these questions. I think it opens up the floor and gets some new perspective into hosted challenges.

    The problem will be making sure people actually answer them, lol.
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    I think we should drop the idea of the poll. There are very few of us regularly entering challenges and if there are people who would rather not entering at all just because we are doing a poll at the end I just think that means it is a negative thing to do and should be avoided. I still think feedback is the fairest way to show appreciation for everyone who enters but equally, if the host wants to do awards on their own or as well as, I can't see why that shouldn't be their choice. I agree with Lyri that it should be strictly limited to top three if awards are done though, I agree not getting an award isn't harsh if there are only top three places.

    If we try finishing the next throwback with the questions we'll just have to see if people come on and do it. If it works well and people enjoy it then the host of a main challenge could perhaps choose to start a discussion as well as giving overall awards rather than doing feedback for everyone as another option. But we need to give it a go.

    I like the idea of adding composition and concept to the questions.

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    Agreed about awarding only a few entries, either a top 3 or perhaps 3 (or another small number) awards for aspects a host like to award. ^^

    Is anyone against trying out starting a discussion with the questions we listed above when it's time to close the current Throwback Challenge?

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  20. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I don't know, if more people like this idea we can do it. But I do not like it, a challenge should end with something that involves all entries IMO. What's the point of a poll or awards for the best entries when some entries can't be awarded or voted for? I do understand that a poll can be problematic in this sense because you can see the whole ranking and I do think people should consider that before they choose a poll over something else to end. In the case of awards it's less of a problem because many end up without any award. Nobody ends last and it's always the opinion of only one person. Big chance that the next person would award different entries. We had awards for years and almost everybody had to go through that phase of not winning anything because you had to compete with people who had a lot more experience, I think I waited more than a year for my first award and years before my first victory. Winning an award was a kick and not winning one was not a big deal because many people barely ever won anything, at least that's how I remember it. Not saying that it feels great when you never win anything but it's not nearly as confronting as ending last in a poll.


    If we go with questions to get a discussion going, what would be question people would love to see in the standard list?

    Stoney already opted for:
    • Favourite use of colour
    • Favorite use of text
    • Favorite use of images
    • Favorite use of textures
    • Best challenge fit


    Personally I like these ones and I would like to add 'use of composition' to the list. And perhaps also a question about the subject or the ideas behind the wallpaper, the concept.
    This is a great list - You could add the composition and as a separate question what about "which is your favorite and why" - this makes it about personal choice and taste.

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