View Poll Results: Would you prefer a BtVS cartoon or continuing with the comic book canon?

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • cartoon, abandon all of post-AtS s5

    5 35.71%
  • cartoon, keep BtVS S8, abandon post-BtVS S8

    1 7.14%
  • cartoon, keep BtVS S8 (kill Angel), abandon post-BtVS S8

    1 7.14%
  • cartoon, keep Season 9, abandon post-BtVS S9

    0 0%
  • cartoon, keep Season 10

    5 35.71%
  • keep all of comic book canon, don't do a cartoon

    3 21.43%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: So, apparently a BtVS cartoon isn’t so far-fetched.

  1. #1
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,583
    Thanks
    3,488
    Thanked 637 Times in 377 Posts

    Default So, apparently a BtVS cartoon isn’t so far-fetched.

    Edit: to the mods, perhaps the title should be, So, apparently a post-AtS s5 cartoon isn't so far-fetched.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bnbxP6HHMY

    That was relatively excellent and a lot of detail was put into it.

    More impressive is who likes the video and how much interest it has gotten. https://www.facebook.com/ArtworkOfStephenByrne

    Io9.com, USA Today, and apparently the AV Club have commented on it, and more importantly Sarah Michelle Gellar/Prinze, Anthony Stewart Head, and Nicholas Brendan have liked it.

    I’m all for abandoning all of post-AtS s5 and having an animated series with Joss Whedon involved and voiced by the actors. As-is, my personal canon has Angel being dusted after BtVS 8.39 and stuff happens afterward.

    If Sarah Michelle Gellar/Prinze and the other principal actors are willing to voice the characters, I don’t see why Disney – whom Joss Whedon is contracted – and Fox couldn’t come together and have an animated cartoon happen.
    Last edited by MikeB; 26-09-14 at 10:23 AM. Reason: added the bolded part.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to MikeB For This Useful Post:

    Rihannon (17-01-19)

  3. #2
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,583
    Thanks
    3,488
    Thanked 637 Times in 377 Posts

    Default

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHRvIxw2tsM

    At around 3:45, a questioner said that Alyson Hannigan would be interested in a BtVS revival, specifically an animated show because the cast is a lot older than when the series ended.

    Nowadays, SMG herself would probably sign on and she and other principals such as James Marsters and David Boreanaz have done plenty of voice work. If Juliet Landau is involved, she's also done voice work.

    Eliza Dushku seems to be a regular on the convention circuit and would likely be up for an animated show.

    With Joss Whedon busy with Batwoman and seeming to do at DC what he used to do at Marvel, this could be ripe for Warner Brothers and their fantastic animation arm.

    If David is involved, Angel would need to have been under the control or influence of Twilight the entire time or simply Season 8 would need to be scrapped. If David isn't involved, Angel could be killed after BtVS 8.39.

    Season 9 and after would probably be scrapped.

  4. #3
    Arbiter of Canon Vampire in Rug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,080
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked 1,415 Times in 641 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    As-is, my personal canon has Angel being dusted after BtVS 8.39 and stuff happens afterward.
    To what extent do you believe Joss Whedon recognizes and respects your personal canon?

    Honestly, if an animated series got made it would likely be set during season 1 or 2. The high school setting is the "iconic" Buffy aesthetic, hence why Dark Horse is revisiting it with their High School Years books. That would draw in more casual fans or people who are nostalgic for those years.

    Setting it after the comics or even after the show would make it too confusing to new fans. There is way too much catching up on character relationships etc.

    It would either be during the early years (less continuity baggage, iconic, character dynamics are simple to get across), a complete reboot/alternate continuity, or if it was set after the show, would focus on a group of original characters with cameos by the scoobies so it wouldn't get bogged down by previous continuity or mess with canon.

    The comics would be an all or nothing thing. Either they'd respect it all or scrap it all. There's no way they would, say, follow season 8 but nothing else. Or follow 8 and 9 but nothing else. And they certainly wouldn't follow season 8 right up until 8.39 where they suddenly follow the MikeB canon and kill Angel.

    I think the chances of a Buffy animated series are pretty slim, at this stage I'd say a reboot is more likely at some point in the future. If either happened, they wouldn't be targeted at you or me, they'd be designed to be user friendly for new fans.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vampire in Rug For This Useful Post:

    Lostsoul666 (22-03-18),Stoney (20-07-17)

  6. #4
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,566
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 1,847 Times in 881 Posts

    Default

    I really doubt Sarah or David would do it.

    The only way I could see the comics incorporated would be a vague adaption of a storyline like what the MCU does with Marvel comics.

  7. #5
    Arbiter of Canon Vampire in Rug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,080
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked 1,415 Times in 641 Posts

    Default

    Sarah can be imitated by Giselle Loren who did Buffy in the Xbox games. David has done voice work before and I don't know if he's up to much at the moment? That said, the time for an animated series targeted at the original fans has come and gone. The show's primary audience would be mostly new fans which means "lost episodes" set during season 1, a cast of original characters or a complete reboot of the series ignoring all continuity from the show/comics. And that's if it gets off the ground at all.

  8. #6
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,732
    Thanks
    236
    Thanked 3,959 Times in 1,859 Posts

    Default

    Sarah does voice work pretty regularly, she was a pretty significant villain on Star Wars: Rebels, she of course did Robot Chicken for Seth. And VO works is a lot more forgiving of a schedule that she and her husband have scrupulously kept focused on their family. Could totally see her doing it. If not, there are plenty of talented voice actors. Hell, the iconic Jennifer Hale could be a great Buffy, played a little bit like Leah from D3.

    I think my wish list here would be

    A) Netflix for more mature content as well as flexibility of length. Will depend a good bit on how successful "Castlevania" is.
    B) original cast and canon continuation, flushing much or all of the comics other than the broadest of touches (i.e. the world came after the Slayers and it all went to pretty epic shit; pretty much lop the sentient universe bullshit out of the Twilight arc).
    C) introduction and emphasis on some OCs that form a template for future live-action incarnations of the Whedon-canon Buffyverse.

    That all said, yeah, it would probably be lost adventures of the Buffyverse -- but I would bet more like "early-Season 5" and not the high school years, because that gives you a broader set of characters to work with.

    Banner by LRae12

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to KingofCretins For This Useful Post:

    MikeB (22-07-17)

  10. #7
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,566
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 1,847 Times in 881 Posts

    Default

    Not so much a would they do voicework question. Sarah has done plenty and besides that, a large part of regular acting is ADR, which is essentially the same thing. It's more that neither has shown any real interest in doing more Buffy. Sure, the usual overtures are made, but that's it. Plus there is the Joss factor. He's doing the DCEU. No time.

    I think, given the internet age with netflix and hulu, the original audience is still a very tappable market. Much of the old fandom has dissolved, sure, those people still use the internet. So do the more casual fans. People would probably check it out.

    Not that I think it'll happen. Fox has shown how interested they are in Buffy with those HD remasters and the laughable 20th package they rolled out.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to HardlyThere For This Useful Post:

    Stoney (22-07-17)

  12. #8
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,583
    Thanks
    3,488
    Thanked 637 Times in 377 Posts

    Default

    Vampire in Rug

    To what extent do you believe Joss Whedon recognizes and respects your personal canon?
    Regarding the Buffyverse, aside from my preferring Spike/Drusilla over all other ‘ships in the Buffyverse, I consider Joss Whedon largely agrees with me. I remember Joss Whedon’s saying that he hasn’t been much involved in the comics since BtVS S8 and I remember Joss Whedon’s at that Comic Con implying that post-BtVS S8 has largely been the Dark Horse ‘verse.


    * Such ‘revival’ shows are largely made for the viewers of the original series. The Buffyverse has a larger viewership than many series that get greenlit.


    * The original animated series—if I remember correctly—was only going to be set in Season 1 or whatever because the TV series was still going on and I remember the only reason it wasn’t greenlit is because SMG refused to voice Buffy.

    Honestly, if an animated series got made it would likely be set during season 1 or 2. The high school setting is the "iconic" Buffy aesthetic, hence why Dark Horse is revisiting it with their High School Years books.
    BtVS got MORE iconic through the Seasons. The peak of media attention was in BtVS S6 and the peak of critical acclaim was in BtVS S7. BtVS in BtVS S7 had articles in the New York Times, The Chicago Tribune, The Washington Post, etc. SMG’s leaving BtVS was treated on par and even slightly above Jerry Seinfeld’s leaving Seinfeld and Tim Allen’s leaving Home Improvement .

    Dark Horse is revisiting the High School Years because sales for Season 11 have plummeted so much because of the aftermath of BtVS S8 and how Angel was dealt with.
    Spoiler:
    Faith’s not even in Angel’s comic to boost sales and Buffy, Spike, and Willow were put in a concentration camp while Angel gets to gallivant through time with Illyria.


    That would draw in more casual fans
    People could simply watch the TV series. Viewers of the animated series would want to see something new.

    or people who are nostalgic for those years.
    Same.

    Setting it after the comics or even after the show would make it too confusing to new fans.
    Again, you don’t need new fans and BtVS can be watched on DVD, Amazon, NetFlix, etc.

    There is way too much catching up on character relationships etc.
    Buffy/Spike are together. Illyria got more powerful. Whatever with Angel. Willow got more powerful. There’s not much catching up.

    a complete reboot/alternate continuity, or if it was set after the show, would focus on a group of original characters with cameos by the scoobies so it wouldn't get bogged down by previous continuity or mess with canon.
    There is around 0% chance of that. The Buffyverse actors wouldn’t bother with cameos and Joss Whedon wouldn’t bother with such nonsense. Season 8 and after proved that enough.

    If it wasn’t with the Buffyverse actors, Joss Whedon would simply do Fray , as he owes all the Fray characters and all the intellectual property rights outside of when TV Buffyverse people show up.

    The comics would be an all or nothing thing. Either they'd respect it all or scrap it all. There's no way they would, say, follow season 8 but nothing else. Or follow 8 and 9 but nothing else.
    Season 8 was intended to connect the Buffyverse with the Frayverse. Season 9 Joss Whedon seemed mostly only interested in the abortion storyline.

    And they certainly wouldn't follow season 8 right up until 8.39 where they suddenly follow the MikeB canon and kill Angel.
    If David Boreanaz demands too much money, he’s not needed for the animated series.

    I’ve always said they should have had Angel controlled and/or influenced the whole time. I remember Joss Whedon says Angel’s responsible for all of Angel’s, AngelTwilight, and TwilightAngel’s actions.

    I think the chances of a Buffy animated series are pretty slim
    In terms of writing duties, there’s enough availability from the BtVS writers and Joss Whedon. The series can be done by Time Warner, Disney, Fox, Netflix, etc. The principals showed up to the Entertainment Weekly thing and Eliza Dushku would have gone had she been invited.

    It all depends on money.

    ____________________________________

    The show's primary audience would be mostly new fans
    It seems you assume an animated series is going to have a viewership much higher than Game of Thrones —or you’re severely underestimated the Buffyverse audience. You think the animated series would be exclusively aimed at grade-schoolers? Why would any series abandon its very large built-in audience?



    HardlyThere

    I really doubt Sarah or David would do it.
    Those days are long past. I remember David Boreanaz was trying to separate himself simply because he wanted people to see him as Seeley Booth—that show’s been cancelled. I remember SMG wanted to focus on Freddie and movies. She now has two kids and her post-BtVS career hasn’t exactly been stellar. I remember that in recent years, she at every chance she gets she reminds people she played Buffy.

    ____________________________________

    Much of the old fandom has dissolved,
    That’s simply incorrect; most fans simply don’t want to discuss the comics because most fans simply dismiss the comics. The Entertainment Weekly thing was simply part of a relatively MASSIVE anniversary thing that was done in the media. But the audience knows how much older the cast is now and that Joss Whedon is busy so the chance of a live-action something is slim.

    Fox has shown how interested they are in Buffy with those HD remasters and the laughable 20th package they rolled out.
    Fox would happily make even more money off the Buffyverse. People complain about the BtVS HD remasters but essentially the same thing was done to SEINFELD . That the remasters were done at all shows that Fox is interested in the Buffyverse.



    KingofCretins

    C) introduction and emphasis on some OCs that form a template for future live-action incarnations of the Whedon-canon Buffyverse.
    Joss Whedon doesn’t own the characters who were introduced in the BtVS movie and he doesn’t own the characters who were introduced in the TV series. Joss would far more likely bring the Frayverse to live-action than bother essentially creating ‘another Buffy’ who’s not Buffy and who’s not Fray and who Joss wouldn’t have complete ownership rights of.

  13. #9
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    1,159
    Thanks
    1,464
    Thanked 2,037 Times in 787 Posts

    Default

    I'm fine with every option, more Buffy is always good as far as I'm concerned but honestly, I don't think anybody cares anymore. There's no audience. Plus, vampires are so passe.

  14. #10
    Arbiter of Canon Vampire in Rug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,080
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked 1,415 Times in 641 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    Vampire in Rug

    Regarding the Buffyverse, aside from my preferring Spike/Drusilla over all other ‘ships in the Buffyverse, I consider Joss Whedon largely agrees with me. I remember Joss Whedon’s saying that he hasn’t been much involved in the comics since BtVS S8 and I remember Joss Whedon’s at that Comic Con implying that post-BtVS S8 has largely been the Dark Horse ‘verse.
    Of course Joss Whedon largely agrees with you. Have you ever thought of charging him money to be his spokesman to the fandom instead of doing it for free? You speak on his behalf quite a lot, you really ought to get paid for it.

    What I was asking specifically though, is what Joss thinks of your personal canon issue of 8.40 where Buffy kills Angel instead of the one that was actually published where she, y'know, doesn't.

    For that matter has Joss ever commented on Spike's offscreen moment where he cast a forcefeild spell around Acathla?

    * Such ‘revival’ shows are largely made for the viewers of the original series. The Buffyverse has a larger viewership than many series that get greenlit.
    The show ended almost 15 years ago. For the most part, people who watched it when it originally aired don't give a crap anymore. I recently caught up with a friend who I used to often discuss the show with back in the day, he was into the series probably more than most people, but it's been years since the show was on the air and -like most viewers, when the story switched medium from TV to comic books, he stopped following. I told him about the Buffy/Spike stuff in seasons 10 and 11 and his response was "isn't Spike a ghost now or something?" People like you and me who still give a crap are in the minority. Even a lot of the original fans moved on to other things and haven't kept up with the Buffyverse to the point where they've forgotten some major events from the shows. Us old school fans have been dwindling for years, and we are not a strong enough fanbase for the studios to cater to exclusively. Any new Buffyverse project will need to be user friendly to casual fans and newbies.

    * The original animated series—if I remember correctly—was only going to be set in Season 1 or whatever because the TV series was still going on and I remember the only reason it wasn’t greenlit is because SMG refused to voice Buffy.
    As is often the case, you are not remembering correctly. In 2001 and 2002 the series would have been produced by Fox Kids which ceased operations and then no other network was interested in buying it. The next time the Buffy animated series might have gained traction was in 2004 -after the show had finished, so it could easily have been set at any point during the show -or after the show as a continuation. But no, they still wanted to set in during season 1. IMO season 1 has the more iconic BtVS aesthetic and tone, has less continuity to worry about and is more family friendly.

    SMG not doing the voice would not have been an obstacle. Giselle Loren would have done a fine job. The problem was, that Joss wanted it to be a quality animated show that would have cost money, and none of the studios were willing to fork out the money. Joss wanted it done properly or not at all, he didn't want to half-ass it and end up with a cheap looking product.

    We just couldn't find a home for (it). We had a great animation director, great visuals, six or seven hilarious scripts from our own staff—and nobody wanted it. I was completely baffled. I felt like I was sitting there with bags of money and nobody would take them from me. It was a question of people either not wanting it or not being able to put up the money because it was not a cheap show. One thing I was very hard-line about was, I didn't want people to see it if it looked like crap. I wanted it to be on a level with Animaniacs or Batman: The Animated Series. And that's a little pricier. But I just don't think it's worth doing unless it's beautiful to look at as well as fun.

    BtVS got MORE iconic through the Seasons. The peak of media attention was in BtVS S6 and the peak of critical acclaim was in BtVS S7. BtVS in BtVS S7 had articles in the New York Times, The Chicago Tribune, The Washington Post, etc. SMG’s leaving BtVS was treated on par and even slightly above Jerry Seinfeld’s leaving Seinfeld and Tim Allen’s leaving Home Improvement .
    The most iconic season of a TV show will always be a subjective depending on who you ask. I'd argue that something being iconic depends largely how it's perceived by the general public, which usually means how much casual fans are exposed to it. Gwen Stacy is Spider-Man's iconic love interest alongside Mary-Jane, but Gwen has been dead for decades. Lex Luther has been a good guy for a few years now, but he's more iconic as a villain. The most iconic Robin was Dick Grayson even though he's grown out of being Robin decades ago and there have been at least four Robins after him.

    I'd argue that the most iconic BtVS era was during High School. I'm pretty sure most of the non-canon novels were set during the High School period, and a huge chunk of the non-canon comics were as well. The Master, Angelus and the Mayor often show up in flashbacks, dreams etc way more than say, Adam or Glory. The board game is set during the early seasons. The first Xbox game was set during season 3 and while the second one (Chaos Bleeds)was set during season 5, it featured Sid the dummy as a playable character despite him only ever appearing in one episode of season 1. Has there ever been any other oneshot character to receive that level of attention? I go to conventions pretty often and the only BtVS cosplayers I've seen are Spike from season 2 (red shirt and vamp face), and VampWillow. (From AtS I've seen people cosplay as Illyria, Lorne and Angel. If you include Angel as a BtVS character, he's primarily from seasons 1-3.) One of the products for sale to celebrate the show's 20th anniversary is a Sunnydale Yearbook. The most common BtVS t-shirt I've seen people wear is the Sunnydale Razorbacks shirt. The only other comic that is currently being published alongside the ongoing season 11 books are set during season 1.

    The earlier seasons are iconic. They are an easier sell to casual fans.

    Dark Horse is revisiting the High School Years because sales for Season 11 have plummeted so much because of the aftermath of BtVS S8 and how Angel was dealt with.
    We've been over this a million times Mike. Comic book sales have dropped significantly in the last decade across the entire medium. Marvel and DC are experiencing it too. For BtVS sales to have dropped too is entirely normal. Sales would have continued to drop if they had killed Angel. Sales will continue to drop if they kill Angel tomorrow (only now DH would have one less book to sell). BtVS sales are excellent when you consider (a) the state of the comic book industry as a whole, (b) the fact that BtVS isn't published by either of the Big Two (c) the series has been running a long time (thereby making it less appealing to casuals who weren't reading it earlier), and (d) it's a comic book continuation of a TV show -products like this are usually trash.

    On top of that, I'm pretty sure that sales figures don't include sales outside of the US or digital sales. I switched to digital years ago, and now I'm reading more books than ever. If those sales aren't included in the figures, then the figures are hardly accurate now are they?

    But no, keep blaming Angel for the drop in sales. What use are facts when MikeB has an unprovable opinion?

    Anyway, if you think Dark Horse is revisiting season 1 because Angel is shitting up season 11 or whatever, why wouldn't they revisit 5, 6 or 7? Wouldn't you prefer "lost episodes" that feature Spike? Why would Dark Horse choose to revisit a season where Angel was Buffy's love interest if Angel is the one who is dragging down the main title?

    The simple fact is that season 1 is more accessible to new fans and casuals. The same would be true of an animated series.

    People could simply watch the TV series. Viewers of the animated series would want to see something new.
    Expecting people to do homework and watch 7 seasons of BtVS (and then maybe read 4+ seasons of comics) before they can understand a new animated series is a terrible business plan. Yes, anyone who enjoys the (hypothetical) animated show can then go on to check out the TV series later on regardless of when the animated show is set. But the studio would want the animated show to be accessible to new audiences right off the bat. They wouldn't want to alientate people with too many past references to a show that ended 15 years ago.

    The old Star Wars EU had a bigger fandom than Buffy, yet Disney was willing to flush all of that away to make new entries in the series more accessible for new fans.

    Again, you don’t need new fans and BtVS can be watched on DVD, Amazon, NetFlix, etc.
    An animated Buffy wouldn't need new fans? You are deluded if you think a studio would comfortably finance a new show based on a series that ended 15 years ago and not concern itself with drawing in new fans. You really are kidding yourself if you think that people who watched Buffy way back in the day are enough to keep a new show afloat. Not to mention that an animated series is a different medium to live action TV and would likely be marketed towards a different, younger audience. There are muchbigger fandoms than BtVS out there and drawing new fans to your story is always a priority.

    Again, the Star Wars Legends matierial is all readily available for people who want to consume it. Novels, comics, games, you name it. The Star Wars Legends stuff was running longer then Buffy and was consumed by more people. Do you understand why Disney discarded it all when the time came to make new movies? Hell, even George Lucas wasn't afraid to contradict the EU when it suited him for the prequels and that was when the EU was still supposed to be in continuity.


    Buffy/Spike are together. Illyria got more powerful. Whatever with Angel. Willow got more powerful. There’s not much catching up.
    From the perspective of a new fan: why is Buffy dating a vampire? Why is Spike different from other vampires and he's good somehow? He decided to get his soul back, huh... why was that (try to explain that one to me in a way that would be family friendly), who is Illyria and why would anyone hang out with her? Why is Willow's sexual preference being pushed too much/too little, this offends me. I heard about a guy called Angel, what's his deal? Why is Buffy hanging out with that British 12 year old? Why does the British 12 year old act like an old dude? Why do people and vampires live side by side if vampires are evil and kill people? Where did Buffy get that axe thing?

    Try to explain all that while at the same time running an episodic plot. Do it in a way that won't feel like an exposition dump that will be boring for old fans or confusing for new fans.

    There is around 0% chance of that. The Buffyverse actors wouldn’t bother with cameos and Joss Whedon wouldn’t bother with such nonsense. Season 8 and after proved that enough.

    If it wasn’t with the Buffyverse actors, Joss Whedon would simply do Fray , as he owes all the Fray characters and all the intellectual property rights outside of when TV Buffyverse people show up.
    A reboot/alternate continuity or a series with original characters is plenty more likely than some of the weird shit you've suggested. Star Wars: Rebels is a show that focuses on original characters with the occasional cameo by characters from the movies/Clone Wars. Both Rogue One and The Force Awakens focused mostly on original characters. When it was published, Fray was a story that focused on original characters. The BtVS show was arguably a soft reboot of the movie and you could argue that the canon comics were a (sort of) reboot of the original Dark Horse run. A reboot movie was talked about a few years ago but never got off the ground. It's not a ridiculous idea that it might happen someday. Tales of the Vampires/Slayers focused on original characters for the most part too.

    Season 8 was intended to connect the Buffyverse with the Frayverse. Season 9 Joss Whedon seemed mostly only interested in the abortion storyline.
    You're putting the horse before the cart. Season 8 was a continuation of the show because Joss felt that there were more stories to tell with those characters. Season 8 connected with Fray in one arc. That wasn't the entire reason Joss felt season 8 was worthwhile. If that was his sole reason for doing it, that could have been done in a miniseries. I think it's more likely he wanted to continue Buffy's story first and foremost, and he saw the opportunity to do a fun crossover with Fray while he was at it. The Fray crossover furthered the themes and plot of season 8. Season 8 wasn't one giant prologue to Fray.

    Meanwhile, plenty of other stuff has happened in seasons 9, 10 and 11 that make Fray look pretty unlikely to be the future now.

    If David Boreanaz demands too much money, he’s not needed for the animated series.
    They still wouldn't kill Angel just for the sake of it. They'd either cast someone else to do the voice or they'd leave him out entirely. Why write yourself into a corner and ensure you can't ever use him in the future? Just because you want Angel dead, doesn't mean that the writers of the comics (including Joss) want him dead. The writers of an animated show certainly wouldn't want him dead even if they didn't have plans to use him right away.

    I’ve always said they should have had Angel controlled and/or influenced the whole time.
    Angel was influenced to an unknown and ambiguous degree. He blacked out sometimes while the cat took his body for a ride (like when Nash and Pearl killed all those Slayers) and when the outer-space sex happened Angel was affected by the same horniness glow that Buffy was. That said, he was in control enough times for his actions to still be pretty abhorrent, and even when he wasn't in complete control it was still his own poor choices that led him there.

    Now, if you're saying that Angel should have been a meat puppet for the entirety of season 8 and therefore culpable for none of his actions, that would be a massive cop-out and I'm glad that they didn't go that route. I don't think they dealt with the aftermath of Twilight perfectly and a lot of it was swept under the rug for the sake of making Angel seem heroic again and a lot of that was pretty piss-poor. But what we got was still a hell of a lot better than your idea of "lol, Angel was possessed the whole time."

    Iremember Joss Whedon says Angel’s responsible for all of Angel’s, AngelTwilight, and TwilightAngel’s actions.
    You remember a lot of things you can't prove.

    It seems you assume an animated series is going to have a viewership much higher than Game of Thrones —or you’re severely underestimated the Buffyverse audience. You think the animated series would be exclusively aimed at grade-schoolers? Why would any series abandon its very large built-in audience?
    When did I ever imply that a Buffy Animated show would have a viewership that could be compared to Game of Thrones? I never said or implied that.

    And yes, the animated series would be aimed at a younger audience because that's what the demographic for western action cartoons usually are.
    Last edited by Vampire in Rug; 23-07-17 at 07:08 AM.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Vampire in Rug For This Useful Post:

    Stoney (23-07-17)

  16. #11
    Well Spiked Stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    8,441
    Thanks
    11,792
    Thanked 14,024 Times in 5,805 Posts

    Default

    I would be really disappointed if they ever scrapped the comics' status as canon continuity because I've been following these stories and character developments and I love how BtVS is a show which focusses on progression. Losing that and stepping back to go off at a different tangent would be something that people just can't do in life and kinda against how the show looked to explore people going through different stages in their lives to me. Plus, there is the financial investment. I would be somewhat resentful if I'm honest about all the wasted money and far less likely to spend more on a new project if it trashes a large amount of what came before it.

    It seems far more likely to me if they ever went down this kind of path that they would do more of the early years stuff where people could then choose to go into the original show/comics etc if they liked. Or something that went off on a distinct tangent from the current canon, like following a different slayer as the new books Kiersten White is writing are supposed to be doing. Again, if people then wanted to go to the original show etc they still could and they might get related sales from that, but it would work independently if people didn't choose to. Cameos of characters from the original canon are then still possible too. It would keep the possibilities wider and the value in what they have already done solid too. Sure they could do something set further in the future of the current canon or from a later point in the show, but it would need a heck of a lot of exposition woven in to get people properly up to speed to follow the existing characters and understand their histories. They released the Halloween issue of S10 that returned to Sunnydale as a jumping on point and I can see why they might have when Buffy and Spike were going to be going over a lot of their history before moving onwards again. But you can't keep doing that kind of recap-then-progress constantly, it wouldn't work. They would either just have to expect people to roll with the situations as presented or assume they would catch up on the past canon if they wanted.

    The downside of adding in to the early years is not adding anything in that disrupts canon. I have been enjoying the high school years comics but they do basically cover an existing theme of the show, they aren't introducing new character developments. If a new project was intended to be more extensive I would have thought this could be too restrictive when you could just take a compatible tangent, like following another slayer, and not having to devalue anything past or be tightly bound by checking so much for continuity all the time.

  17. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stoney For This Useful Post:

    debbicles (17-04-18),GoSpuffy (04-01-18),Rihannon (17-01-19),Silver1 (23-07-17)

  18. #12
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,566
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 1,847 Times in 881 Posts

    Default

    This thread went to crap real quick.

    Standard sales in 2016: $1.085 billion (up 55M from 2015)
    Digital: $90 million (static with 90M from 2015, down 10M from 2014)

    Digital sales are not significantly impacting standard sales on new material.

    Unit sales in 2007: 85.27M
    Unit sales in 2016: 89.35M (highest since 1997)

    They've fully recovered from the Great Recession slump where BTVS was still selling 50K/mth. They're selling 10.5K in a boom market.

    If Buffy had no media presence left, they wouldn't do reunion issues. It wouldn't be talked about on gen boards. This means little to Fox, of course. Buffy was never a money maker for them. However, if new palatable material were to come out, there would still be a base there. That base has had no new material for 15 years, so they've moved on, but for what reason would anyone assume they wouldn't give a new show a shot if they were aware of it? You put a suggested viewing tag on it and they'll click. If it's good, they'll stick.

    The story of the comics is pretty simple: If people disliked them, they were told to quit reading. Hell, I was told that on this very board not too long ago. Most of them did. Now, dwindling numbers don't mean anything.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to HardlyThere For This Useful Post:

    Silver1 (23-07-17)

  20. #13
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,583
    Thanks
    3,488
    Thanked 637 Times in 377 Posts

    Default

    Vampire in Rug

    Of course Joss Whedon largely agrees with you. Have you ever thought of charging him money to be his spokesman to the fandom instead of doing it for free? You speak on his behalf quite a lot, you really ought to get paid for it.
    Regarding Buffyverse canon, I don’t see how anyone could find it a negative that Joss Wheodn largely agrees with that someone.

    I remember Joss Whedon did that napkin sketch that seems to depict Buffy’s killing Angel.

    “Largely agrees” doesn’t mean “agrees with everything”.


    * Not caring about the comics and not posting on Boards is not equivalent to not caring about the Buffyverse.

    Anyone who thinks Spike is still “a ghost or something” wasn’t even much aware of what happened in AtS S5 and clearly didn’t view AtS S5.

    Even a lot of the original fans moved on to other things and haven't kept up with the Buffyverse to the point where they've forgotten some major events from the shows.
    People who post on BF and SA—like you—have “forgotten some major events from [BtVS and AtS].”

    Us old school fans have been dwindling for years, and we are not a strong enough fanbase for the studios to cater to exclusively. Any new Buffyverse project will need to be user friendly to casual fans and newbies.
    People have stopped posting on Boards because Season 10 and Season 11—really much of post-BtVS S8—isn’t much worth discussing and recently world events demand more attention.

    The new BtVS movie was axed because the viewers of the Buffyverse objected to the notion that Joss Whedon wasn’t going to be involved with it.


    * I remember Joss Whedon also tried to claim responsibility for BtVS ending in BtVS S7. In my opinion and from what I remember, Joss didn’t like how much power SMG and then later SMG and James Marsters had over the Buffyverse. I remember the BtVS cartoon was going to happen if SMG was willing to voice Buffy; SMG refused; it wasn’t greenlit.


    * There really weren’t many “casual fans” of the Buffyverse when it aired. One pretty much had to see every episode of BtVS to fully understand what was going on.

    Nothing you wrote argued against this: “BtVS got MORE iconic through the Seasons. The peak of media attention was in BtVS S6 and the peak of critical acclaim was in BtVS S7. BtVS in BtVS S7 had articles in the New York Times, The Chicago Tribune, The Washington Post, etc. SMG’s leaving BtVS was treated on par and even slightly above Jerry Seinfeld’s leaving Seinfeld and Tim Allen’s leaving Home Improvement .”


    * BtVS S1 only had 12 episodes—it didn’t even have a Halloween episode, a Christmas episode, a Buffy birthday episode, etc. There were more gaps to fill.


    * Mary Jane Watson is the only iconic love interest of Peter Parker aka Spider Man. Lex Luthor is only iconic as the foe of Superman. Most don’t even know the name “Dick Grayson”.


    * The high school era can’t be more iconic than the later era given that “The peak of media attention was in BtVS S6 and the peak of critical acclaim was in BtVS S7.”


    * The only 2 novels—all the novels aren’t canon—that matter at all are Pretty Maids in a Row and that Faith one. They matter because it gives some backstory for Spike and Dru and Faith, respectively.


    * The comics weren’t supposed to contradict the TV series, so most were set after the Season in which they were placed was already over.

    The Master, Angelus and the Mayor often show up in flashbacks, dreams etc way more than say, Adam or Glory.
    Adam wasn’t important to the Scoobies after he was killed, same with Glory. Angel and Spike had flashbacks to give backstory: those flashbacks included those like the Master, Darla, and Drusilla.


    * Almost zero casual fans is buying Buffyverse merchandise or bought the Buffyverse video game. I remember that at least several people who posted on BF and SA hadn’t even read Fray much less Tales of the Vampires and Tales of the Slayers .


    * A Buffyverse cartoon would be set after BtVS S7 as that makes the most sense.


    * The comic sales of the Buffyverse comics are around 10% of what they used to be. The only valid explanation and reasoning for such a drop is buyers don’t like the contents of the comics.

    If people liked Angel’s treatment post-BtVS 8.40, A&F’s sales would be higher, sales wouldn’t have plummeted further after Angel at the end of A&F S9 considers Buffy/Angel was possible again, sales for Season 10 wouldn’t have been so bad, etc. The readers hadn’t forgotten how Spike was treated in A&F S9 and Season 10 didn’t do any favors by having the comics act as if Buffy/Spike didn’t happen in BtVS S7.

    Anyway, if you think Dark Horse is revisiting season 1 because Angel is shitting up season 11 or whatever, why wouldn't they revisit 5, 6 or 7? Wouldn't you prefer "lost episodes" that feature Spike? Why would Dark Horse choose to revisit a season where Angel was Buffy's love interest if Angel is the one who is dragging down the main title?
    I remember it was Scott Allie’s decision to take Spike out of BtVS S9. I remember that Scott Allie in my opinion was anti-Spike, anti-Buffy/Spike, and pro-Buffy/Angel. I remember the only ‘Spuffy’ things in BtVS S8 after Spike appears were written by Joss Whedon. I remember Scott Allie in a Letters section said Spike was a “bad guy”. Heck, Faith in Season 11 is rather dismissive of Buffy/Spike and seems still pro-Buffy/Angel.


    * Outside of a reboot, BtVS S1 is not going to be more accessible to new viewers and ‘casual viewers’ because nothing can be contradicted. The lore will still be there and the canon will still be there. “Storyteller” (B 7.16) is essentially a full episode of “Previously on BtVS” and it’s one of the best episodes of the Buffyverse. Fray created a whole new ‘world’ of the Buffyverse in one comic Issue. It wouldn’t take much to ‘catch viewers up’. Plus, the DVDs exists.

    The old Star Wars EU had a bigger fandom than Buffy, yet Disney was willing to flush all of that away to make new entries in the series more accessible for new fans.
    The Star Wars Extended Universe never had big sales. Disney decided to mostly copy the Original Trilogy and to ignore stuff from the prequels that viewers didn’t like.

    The comparison would be the animated series scrapping post-AtS S5 or post-BtVS S8.


    * Have you heard of anime? Have you heard of Young Justice ? Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes ? Avatar: The Last Airbender ? Animated shows can be marketed to both kids and adults.


    * There are probably around 10M-25M Buffyverse fans in the world. Any animated series would love to have the worldwide viewership that BtVS had when it aired. And BtVS aired when streaming wasn’t available and then wasn’t widely available. The DVDs didn’t even come out until BtVS S5 was airing.

    Geek culture wasn’t a thing when BtVS aired. Movie studios and TV studios weren’t catering to ‘nerds’ and ‘geeks’.

    Joss Whedon is much more powerful and important in the entertainment industry than he was when BtVS aired. In my opinion, Marvels Agents of SHIELD is mainly only continuing because Disney wants to try to make Joss Whedon at least somewhat happy.

    BTW, Disney may soon own the TV rights to the Buffyverse.


    * I assume post-BtVS S8 would be scrapped for any animated TV series and perhaps BtVS S8 as well.


    * A world can be set up in a Pilot episode.

    Why is Willow's sexual preference being pushed too much/too little, this offends me.
    This is 2018 C.E. Willow/Tara was so popular that I remember a boycott of BtVS S7 happened.


    * If a reboot could happen, it already would. Joss Whedon wouldn’t do a reboot. The viewership wouldn’t accept a reboot. Scrapping post-AtS S5 or post-BtVS S8 makes sense. Rebooting the Buffyverse doesn’t.


    * BtVS S8 connected BtVS with Fray in the opening Issue. Buffy is using a Fray-like weapon.


    * Joss Whedon isn’t as involved with post-BtVS S8 as he was with BtVS S8. Again, Joss Whedon owns the Frayverse outside of the characters created for the BtVS movie and the Buffyverse TV series. He’s almost certain to always keep Fray canon and likely.


    * Joss was doing BtVS S8 when he was at a relative low point in his career. As soon as Dollhouse and The Avengers came along, he wasn’t as involved with the comics.


    * Angel’s saying stuff is simply that. I remember Joss Whedon says Angel is responsible for everything Angel did in Season 8 including when Angel was TwilightAngel.

    There is around zero indication that Angel was influenced outside of when Twilight possessed him and I remember Joss Whedon says Angel is even responsible for TwilightAngel’s actions.


    * Angel in post-BtVS S8 is proven to be more evil than previously understood because Pearl and Nash were introduced and Angel to Willow said that Angel’s actions in Twilight were good, to the benefit of the good people of Earth, and essentially Buffy was evil for wanting to leave Twilight. In addition, Angel seems to consider bringing Giles back makes up for all the evil Angel did in BtVS S8.


    * Relatively, Uncursed Angel is a “cop out” because the Scoobies and the Fang Gang bifurcate “Angel” from “Angelus”. “Inside Out” (A 4.17) is a “cop out” but it explains Angel/Darla, Cordy becoming what she became, etc.

    Post-BtVS S8 handled the Angel situation about the worse way it could possibly be handled.

    Angel was sent to a hell dimension for possibly hundreds of years after BtVS S2 (later established at around 100 years). Spike fought for his soul after attempting to rape Buffy. Willow went to rehab for months after “Grave” (B 6.22). Angel was literally living off of Giles and literally living a jet set lifestyle in A&F S9.


    * My quote: “I remember Joss Whedon says Angel’s responsible for all of Angel’s, AngelTwilight, and TwilightAngel’s actions.”

    https://nerdist.com/joss-whedon-on-b...nd-avengers-2/



    Stoney

    * We still don’t know what from IDW is canon. Most viewers would be happy that Angel wasn’t Twilight if he wasn’t killed after BtVS S8.


    * Joss Whedon would have to be at least somewhat involved with an animated series and he’d likely be willing to scrap post-BtVS S8 as I remember he hasn’t been much involved with post-BtVS S8.



    HardlyThere

    This means little to Fox, of course. Buffy was never a money maker for them.
    The Buffyverse was a significant money marker for 20th Century Fox. Fox made money selling the TV rights to WB, made more money selling the TV rights to UPN, made money off of all the licensing, etc. The BtVS DVDs sold second only to the Family Guy DVDs. The DVDs have been re-issued several times because they still sell.

  21. #14
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,875
    Thanks
    10,492
    Thanked 9,095 Times in 4,390 Posts

    Default

    I voted to save all the comics as canon and carry on from S10, but of course I'd want S11 to be counted too. I think it would be far easier to make a cartoon from AtS, just keeping A&F S9 as canon, because S10 was only ok and S11 was very poor. Plus Angel hasn't advanced, grown or even changed in the intervening years so AtS would be easier to conver to animation and still keep it's essential meaning.

    If they did ever do a cartoon that was set in High School, I really wouldn't watch it, though I think it could bring a new generation into appreciating Buffy, it would be too childish for me to watch now, unless the writers made it appealing to an older audience.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    GoSpuffy (04-01-18),Rihannon (17-01-19)

  23. #15
    Scooby Gang GoSpuffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    884
    Thanks
    2,356
    Thanked 2,235 Times in 1,044 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I voted to save all the comics as canon and carry on from S10, but of course I'd want S11 to be counted too. I think it would be far easier to make a cartoon from AtS, just keeping A&F S9 as canon, because S10 was only ok and S11 was very poor. Plus Angel hasn't advanced, grown or even changed in the intervening years so AtS would be easier to conver to animation and still keep it's essential meaning.

    If they did ever do a cartoon that was set in High School, I really wouldn't watch it, though I think it could bring a new generation into appreciating Buffy, it would be too childish for me to watch now, unless the writers made it appealing to an older audience.
    I agree that it would need something to bring back the original but now older audience. Maybe a marvel's runaway type of thing? Set in the future with dawn/Xander child, Buffy/spike child and Willow/somebody child finding out about what their parents do after they've gone to bed. Their would have to be some adoptions. Or Willow could cast a Spell on her self and it could go all. Tabula rasa on her and get Buffy pregnant too.


    I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GoSpuffy For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (04-01-18),Rihannon (17-01-19)

  25. #16
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,583
    Thanks
    3,488
    Thanked 637 Times in 377 Posts

    Default

    https://geektyrant.com/news/fox-will...cides-its-time

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bgyo8N3j...y=sarahmgellar

    Disney could put a cartoon on their eventual streaming platform, if necessary.

    It's likely both Sarah Michelle Gellar and James Marsters would want post-BtVS S9 erased and likely post-BtVS S8 and even likely post-AtS s5.

    I maintain Angel could be salvaged if it's revealed he was influenced and/or controlled since around before becoming Twilight or before he did anything super negative to Buffy and Co. Willow could still get her magic back. Spike could continue to have the bugship. Morgan's the only great character introduced post-BtVS S9 and she could still be introduced. Joss could decide what from IDW is canon.

    Again, how Angel's dealt with post-BtVS 8.40 has been the hindrance to post-Season 8. That could all be fixed with a cartoon reboot or simply re-doing Season 8.

    I know SMG, James Marsters, David Boreanaz, and Juliet Landau have done voice work.

  26. #17
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,875
    Thanks
    10,492
    Thanked 9,095 Times in 4,390 Posts

    Default

    I think Disney are far more likely to abandon everything from the show and start again at high school. They want a whole new audience, and an updated story. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what S12 The Reckoning is all about, ending the current Buffy and starting all over again.

  27. #18
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,566
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 1,847 Times in 881 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I think Disney are far more likely to abandon everything from the show and start again at high school. They want a whole new audience, and an updated story. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what S12 The Reckoning is all about, ending the current Buffy and starting all over again.
    Disney will own Fox. Fox still exists. It's just owned by another company. At this point the deal isn't even finalized.

    I know we are all fans and love the show and franchise, but it's nothing to Disney. Nothing. It's one of hundreds of IPs that came along with buying Fox. Why do people think there will be a bigger push just because of the Mouse? Nor is there any reason to think Sarah or Joss would be interested.

  28. #19
    Hellmouth Tourist
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 24 Times in 9 Posts

    Default

    Assuming some sort of Buffy continuation is possible, live-action or otherwise, this could potentially explain Whedon's heavy involvement in Season 12, after a few years with limited involvement. We know that time travel will be a heavy plot point in Season 12, and Angel Season 11 introduced the concept of changing the past, and I hope that Angel Season 11 wasn't for nothing, as no major plot developments happened AT ALL, so I wonder if it's possible that Whedon is going to end Season 12 by retconning some of the post-show content. This could keep the comics canon, and keep fans of the comics happy, while having the world in such a state would make more sense for a continuation, such as perhaps undoing Twilight, teenage Giles, new-vampires, and the public's general knowledge of supernatural occurrences, which would definitely alienate and confuse most viewers.

  29. #20
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,875
    Thanks
    10,492
    Thanked 9,095 Times in 4,390 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Disney will own Fox. Fox still exists. It's just owned by another company. At this point the deal isn't even finalized.

    I know we are all fans and love the show and franchise, but it's nothing to Disney. Nothing. It's one of hundreds of IPs that came along with buying Fox. Why do people think there will be a bigger push just because of the Mouse? Nor is there any reason to think Sarah or Joss would be interested.
    You could very well be right. I was just thinking that Buffy is still popular and has name recognition, and that could bring in revenue. Disney is all about making a profit and they may think there is a profit to be had. Look how just a mention of a reboot got in all the entertainment magazines the other week and got people talking, that may have been to test the waters and see if there was an appetite for it, with or without Joss on board.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •