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Thread: 4.04 "Oathkeeper" episode discussion thread

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    Bad Boy Lover Cori's Avatar
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    Default 4.04 "Oathkeeper" episode discussion thread

    So that was a very uneven episode for me. I enjoyed all of the King's Landing, Sansa and Littlefinger and Jon Snow parts but the stuff that happened north of the Wall was not my cup of tea. I have never really been that interested in the Others (or White Walkers on the show), even if they have a pretty big role to play. As supernatural creatures they are just not as interesting as say the dragons so any episode that focuses so deeply on the Others/north of the Wall stuff will not be my favourite. I'm also not sure if I like the departure from the books when it comes to Bran's storyline (Bran, Hodor and the Reeds being captured by the mutineers at Craster's Keep is not in the books). Of course I always maintained that Bran's storyline in the books is pretty boring and maybe Weiss and Benioff thought that as well and decided to make Bran's storyline more exciting and more action-packed. One thing I like about Bran being captured at Craster's Keep though is that there might be a possibility for a Stark family reunion in next week's episode, what with Jon Snow being on his way there. However, I'm not sure if the writers/producers will actually let that happen because in the books Stark family members are never allowed to meet up, they are sometimes close (like Arya was almost at the Twins to meet up with her mother and Robb or Bran saw Jon Snow while he was inside Summer's head) but they never actually meet up. In this instance I would prefer it if the show deviated from the books because all those near misses are so damn frustrating and this world is dark and cruel as it is so we could use some joy in the form of a Bran and Jon Snow reunion. So I'm hoping this will happen in next week's episode but I'm not counting on it.

    I have to say, I really enjoy Jon Snow's storyline this season. He is turning into quite the leader and it's no wonder that he is popular and unsurprising that Ser Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt are not too pleased about that. I loved how pissed off they looked after Jon's speech and when more brothers joined him on his mission to Craster's Keep than they expected. (Book 3 spoilers for unaired events)
    Spoiler:
    I wonder if the writers are including such scenes as foreshadowing for Jon becoming Lord Commander. He certainly has an authority about him in this episode and the men (or at least some of them) seem to like and trust him.


    It was also nice to finally see a Jon and Sam friendship scene again. I enjoy Sam so much more when he is not with Gilly! And I have to say, I absolutely love that the show deviated from the books by having Sam tell Jon that he saw Bran! I never understood in the books why Bran made Sam swear to keep it a secret that they met. Maybe Jon knowing that Bran is alive and north of the Wall points in the direction of the reunion I discussed above. I'm keeping all my fingers and toes crossed!

    I really cringed when Locke tried to worm his way into Jon Snow's good graces. Don't trust him, Jon Snow, he is an evil, evil man who wants to kill your brothers!

    As I feared, there was no follow-up to the rape (if it it even was rape, the writers/producers/director are saying something different) and Jaime's redemptive arc continued as if nothing had happened. Sure Cersei was drinking lots of wine and looking distraught but since the rape was not addressed in the writing you could also put that down to her grieving for Joffrey. Since the writers' decision to turn a consensual sex scene from the books into rape on the show became such a mess and nobody seems to be on the same page when it comes to this scene and this scene was completely out of character for Jaime, I'm gonna pretend it didn't happen and will stick with the scene as it was written in the books. This way Jaime's journey to redemption does not get unnecessarily disrupted and actually makes sense going forward.

    As a big Jaime/Brienne shipper, this episode was of course a joy to watch. I loved all their moments together, Jaime giving her the sword which had been reforged from Ned Stark's sword, tasking Brienne with upholding both of their oaths to keep Catelyn Stark's daughters (or in this instance at least Sansa) safe, having an armour fashioned for Brienne, giving her Podrick as a squire, etc. I loved how moved Jaime was when Brienne named the sword "Oathkeeper" and it was clearly implied that she was not only talking about the sword but about Jaime himself. I loved that Jaime went against his sister and his father's wishes and did the honourable thing. It beautifully shows how he slowly but surely turns against his evil family and does what he thinks is right. When Jaime and Brienne said goodbye, that made me tear up a bit because they will clearly not see each other again for a while. There was so much suppressed emotion in both actors' faces, it was just a thing of beauty to watch. I also loved how Jaime walked after Brienne and Pod and how Brienne turned around to get one last look at him. I'm excited about seeing Brienne and Pod's adventures but I'm definitely gonna miss seeing Jaime and Brienne together, the two characters who meant most to me throughout season 3.

    Jaime's redemptive arc also involved finally going to see his brother in his cell, after Bronn guilt tripped him into it. You go, Bronn! He might be a sellsword with no honour but he does seem to care about Tyrion. I loved how both Jaime and Tyrion were insulted by the other's lack of trust ("Do you really think I would kill your son?" and "Do you really think I would kill my brother?", respectively). I'm glad that talking to Tyrion convinced Jaime of his innocence and he said as much to Cersei. Of course, like Tyrion said, Cersei would never listen to reason because she hates Tyrion so much and wants him dead at any cost.

    I also thought that it was great that both Tyrion and Sansa believe the other is innocent of Joffrey's murder. I wondered about Tyrion's line about Sansa not being a killer, at least not yet anway. (Book 3 and beyond spoilers)
    Spoiler:
    Could that be foreshadowing to Sansa possibly killing Littlefinger? Or Sweetrobin? Has GRRM maybe told the producers how he plans to continue Sansa's storyline? I'm very curious what's in store for her next in books 6 and 7.


    I admit I was surprised that the show spelled it out so clearly as to who had murdered Joffrey because the books never stated it this explicitly, only heavily implied it. However, I think that was a good move on Weiss and Benioff's part. I like that they didn't drag the murder mystery out but made it clear once and for all that it was Littlefinger and Lady Oleanna Tyrell being in cahoots together. I loved Littlefinger saying that his relationship with his new friends (aka the Tyrells) was "growing strong", which are of course the words of House Tyrell. I also loved how Lady Olenna was touching Margaery's necklace in their scene together, a clear reference back to the Purple Wedding. Margaery seemed to be a bit too naive in the scene with her grandmother, she clearly still has a great deal to learn from the Queen of Thorns. In contrast, I thought Sansa's questions to Littlefinger were rather smart. It's high time for Sansa to become smarter and less naive about the game of thrones and I think she is catching up now. Littlefinger is so creepy though, the way he keeps touching Sansa, eww! Plus when she asked him what he wanted and he said "everything" it was clearly implied that that included Sansa. So it looks like they are sailing straight for the Vale of Arryn and are not gonna stop by the Fingers first. I can live with that. I'm really curious to see Lady Arryn again and how she will welcome (or not) Sansa.

    Speaking of icky scenes: I'm glad that they made Tommen older but his nightly scene with Margaery still felt a bit icky to me because of the age difference. At least she didn't kiss him on the mouth, that was a smart move. Poor Tommen gets manipulated by all the people in his life! At least Margaery is not evil like Cersei and Tywin. And oh yay, they included Ser Pounce! I didn't expect them to since they aged up Tommen but of course they solved this problem by aging up the cat as well. I'm sad not to see the cute kitten on the show but I'm happy that Ser Pounce is part of the show. Smart Margaery makes sure that Tommen understands that this nightly visit must remain their little secret because if Cersei were to find out, she would go bonkers.

    Did we really need to see more rape on this show? The mutineers at Craster's Keep are bad men, we get it, Show, must the violence against women be shown so graphically? Poor Craster's wives/daughters, they went from being raped and abused by one man to being raped and abused by a whole gang of men. I hate all those mutineers with a fiery passion, they are a despicable excuse for human beings and I hope they will get their comeuppance in next week's episode when Jon Snow and his volunteers hopefully reach Craster's Keep. And hopefully Ghost will play a part in this as well. Speaking of Ghost: Why did the mutineers have him locked up in a cage? Wouldn't they have killed and eaten him by now? Food is scarse and he is another mouth to feed. Or do the mutineers think that Ghost will be useful if the White Walkers attack? Anway I'm glad that we got confirmation that Ghost is still alive but I thought it made no sense for them to lock him up and not kill him.

    The scenes with the baby were very hard to watch, I felt so bad for him. At least now we know what happened to all of Craster's sons. I always assumed that the White Walkers would kill and eat them, but no they are turning those baby boys into White Walkers. Seeing the baby's eyes turn clear blue was beyond creepy!

    So what did you guys think of "Oathkeeper"?

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    Mighty Power Nikki's Avatar
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    Oh my god the ending of that episode with the baby being turned into a Walker was really creepy! I could hardly watch that scene when the baby was left and carried away. It was just so horrible.. I just kept telling myself 'it's just a story'!!

    I really like that they closed the mystery of Joffrey's murder, it was kind of hinted at in the books that it was Little Finger and Lady Olenna but it was good they told us straight and the nice twist with Sansa's involvement. I'm really interested to see how Sansa's storyline continues when they get to the Eyrie, interesting they are going straight there and not stopping at the Fingers but I guess that can be cut without too many implications.

    I'm loving Jon's story at the moment. Can't wait for what's to come on the Wall! Hopefully he'll be re-united with Ghost soon and they'll kill all the ex-brothers who are at Crasters. Hopefully this will make them realise what happens when you force bad men into situations like this. The wall used to be manned by knights but now it's most thieves and rapists and they don't care about protecting the realm.

    I really enjoyed Jamie giving Brienne Oathkeeper..
    Spoiler:
    although Brienne and Pod's story in the books are so dull.. I hope they make that more interesting on the show!


    Interesting to see that Bran's storyline has gone a bit differently to the books, hopefully that'll turn out interesting. Maybe he'll meet up with Jon when he comes to kill the mutineers..

    Must catch up, being 2 episodes behind is not good!!

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    So Lady Tyrell took one of the stones from Sansa's necklace and put it in Joffrey's drink? Is that what happened?

    Bran's capture was nerve wracking. The leader of the deserters at Castors Keep was actually quite menacing and unhinged. I hope Jon can rescue them, or they can escape somehow. Great scene when men stood up for Jon and wanted to help him. I'm actually liking Jon more and more, though he's nowhere near one of my favourites, he's starting to become more interesting.

    The image of the White Walker on horseback, with the baby in his arms, was so creepy. I'm assuming that if the baby has been turned into a walker it will still grow normally, or what is the point. A baby is no use to the White Walkers is it?

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    Re: the stone on Sansa's necklace, yes.

    I can't remember the details of the babies thing. Weren't they some supposed sacrifice? I don't understand why that would work to be honest, why wouldn't the white walkers just come and kill them all. The only use for a baby that I can see is to horrify people and/or to set a trap for them. It's what I'd use one for if I was a white walker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Re: the stone on Sansa's necklace, yes.

    I can't remember the details of the babies thing. Weren't they some supposed sacrifice? I don't understand why that would work to be honest, why wouldn't the white walkers just come and kill them all. The only use for a baby that I can see is to horrify people and/or to set a trap for them. It's what I'd use one for if I was a white walker.
    Thanks, yes the stone thing seems to be explained later on, though I can't see how Lady Tyrell or The Fool got the stone out of the necklace. I'm sure I just wasn't paying enough attention and it'd be obvious if I went back to check.

    I agree, taking the babies is just to horrify the audience because I can't see any other reason to do it. I assume the White Walkers don't eat, as they are dead. Why would they need dead babies? It makes no sense, other than it looked really good and was quite scary.

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