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Thread: Buffy Season 10 Issue 1 Discussion

  1. #121
    Arbiter of Canon Vampire in Rug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post

    * To be on topic, it’s obvious by this Issue that Buffy and Spike want to be together.
    Good thing you brought us back on topic for that sterling contribution to this thread. :rolling

    Vampire in Rug

    * Xander isn’t a warlock. Given Xander never intentionally performed a spell, comparing Xander’s magical abilities to Spike’s magical abilities is silly.
    Little known fact: the spell that Spike used to shut down Acathla was actually taught to him by Xander. Sure, Xander never intentionally performed a spell that we saw *onscreen*, but offscreen, Xander was actually the inventor of that spell. Joss Whedon actually confirmed this in an interview one time, but I can't find the quote so you'll just have to take my word on it.

    Jack Shaftoe

    * Traditionally, “one-on-one fights” refers to fights without additional weapons being used. If one gives Xander “a flamethrower or Molotov cocktails, or crossbow or whatever”, give a non-chipped Spike a shotgun and Xander is toast.
    If no additional weapons are allowed to be used then I guess Buffy can't beat a vampire in a one-on-one fight because bringing a stake would be considered cheating. I did notice in another thread when you were weighing the power ranking of Spike to other characters, you assume that Spike would be wearing protective chest and neck armour. Why are you allowed to randomly give Spike defensive gear in one-on-one fights but nobody else is allowed to bring a weapon?

    One-on-one fights depend entirely on the whims of the writers because these characters are not real.

    Obviously, even if Xander had such weapons and Spike was unarmed, unless Xander attacked Spike when Spike was sleeping and Spike didn’t awake in time, Spike would easily kill Xander.
    Or, if the writer wanted Xander to kill Spike with a Molotov cocktail or a flamethrower, then Spike would simply be engulfed in flames until he turned to ash. Or if the writer wanted to reveal that Xander has been a metahuman with laser eyes this whole time, he'd zap Spike in half. Or if the writer wanted the entire series to be a dream Xander was having back when he fell asleep in class, that could happen too.

    * Are you pretending that Spike doesn’t have super-speed?
    His "super-speed" depends entirely on the whims of the writers, and is entirely situational.

    Just because you and others aren’t aware of things doesn’t mean your ignorance makes you correct.
    You claimed that Spike and Dru: Paint the Town Red was listed as canonical on the cover of the issues. Skippcommet owns the issues and bought them when they first came out and he says you are wrong. I've looked up the covers and there is nothing whatsoever on the covers that list them as being canonical. I'm not ignorant, but you sir, are a liar.

    The canon is [Buffy] couldn’t [beat Glory]. The canon is that it seems Ben was preventing Glory from killing Buffy. Without Ben influencing Glory, Glory would have easily killed Buffy.
    That is your personal fanon, it's not something the rest of us have to accept. Glory has better stats than Buffy on paper, but Buffy was able to create a situation where she could prevent Glory from accessing the Key. Glory's goal was to bleed all the dimensions together and Buffy's goal was to stop her. Buffy won.

    If Xander had a crossbow or whatever, Spike would simply either catch the arrow or duck it and then kill Xander. 1970s Spike easily caught a stake that Nikki Wood hurls at his heart.
    Just out of interest, I googled how fast a crossbow can fire. Here was the top answer on Yahoo answers:

    The crossbow arrow speeds are measured in feet per second. The FPS depends on make and model of each crossbow and the draw weight of the individual crossbow. An average crossbow will have a draw weight of 125 lbs to 200 lbs of draw weight.

    The FPS will run from a low of about 275 FPS to the fastest crossbow on the market that has a 405 FPS velocity. The fastest crossbow on the market at the present time is the Stryker made by Bow-Tech.

    Could Spike catch an arrow travelling an average of 300 feet per second? Who knows. I don't think we've seen Spike in that situation before. We've seen Buffy catch an arrow once, but that was fired from a booby trap, not a person who is aiming, and just because Buffy can do it, doesn't necessarily mean Spike can do it.

    We did see Spike catch the stake thrown by Nikki. Interestingly, the non-canon novel Blackout suggested that throwing a stake was Nikki's trademark way of killing vampires from a distance after she was unable to stop Darla from escaping in a boat one time. Spike studied Nikki before confronting her, so he was already prepared to catch a stake thrown at his chest. Obviously, Blackout is a non-canon book, but it was an interesting take on the situation and I think it would be quite in character for Spike to study Nikki before their first confrontation, so it's entirely possible that he knew that the stake-throw was one of her moves. Anticipating a thrown stake is a hell of a lot easier than anticipating an arrow from a crossbow.

    How fast can a stake be thrown? I have no idea and I can't find an answer on google, but I imagine a stake thrown by a Slayer might travel at a similar speed as a fastball thrown by a "power pitcher." According to wikipedia: "Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens, have thrown fastballs at speeds of 95–106 mph (152.9–170.59 km/h) (officially) and up to 108.1 mph (174 km/h) (unofficially), relying purely on speed to prevent the ball from being hit."

    Yahoo answers told me that a crossbow can fire from a low end of 275 fps. Wikipedia tells me that one of the fastest official fastballs was 106 mph. A conversion between mph and fps puts the 275 fps from the crossbow at 187.5 mph. An arrow from the slowest crossbow can travel much, much faster than the fastest thrown ball (which is more aerodynamic than a stake to begin with). Not to mention that a thrown stake gives your opponent more warning time when you drawn your arm back to throw, as opposed to a loaded crossbow which gives your opponent very little warning time since you could pull the trigger at a moment's notice. Could Spike catch a crossbow arrow? Maybe, if the plot demands it. But just because he can catch a thrown stake -which he may or may not have anticipated before the battle even started, does not mean that he can necessarily catch a crossbow round.

    And, yes, a non-chipped Spike would have more easily beaten Riley Finn than Cursed Angel did in “The Yoko Factor” (B 4.20).
    Care to back that up with anything other than your own opinion?

    Frankly, anyone who thinks that Xander or Gunn or Wood or BtVS S1 Darla could beat Spike in a one-on-one fight if isn’t being at all objective or rational.
    Depends entirely on the situation. Who says it has to be a fair fight? What is a "fair" fight anyway when one person has superpowers and the other does not? Wood damn near killed Spike by exploiting his trigger in a room full of crosses. Angel trusts Gunn to take him out if he ever goes evil again. Darla's power level has been all over the place.

    Oh, so you now agree with me that the only reason Cursed Angel did so well against Spike in “Destiny” (A 5.08) is because Spike wasn’t close to 100% and that Spike’s sparring sessions with full-powered Illyria is an actual indicator of Spike’s abilities?
    No, your idea that Spike was in a weakened state in Destiny when he fought Angel is your own personal canon that I happen to think is a load of bullshit. Nothing in the actual episode suggested that turning Spike solid weakened him in any way, that's merely your take on things.

    Illyria was toying with Spike in her sparring sessions. I believe that if she'd wanted to, she could have torn his head off with her bare hands.

    Billy was doing better against zompires than about all the actual Slayers were. Billy likely can easily beat Xander up; otherwise, Billy’s fighting ability against zompires makes even less sense than it already does.
    Billy's fighting abilities are what some in comic book fandom like to call PIS: Plot Induced Stupidity. There is no way Billy should be able to take Slayers, Zompires or Xander. He can only do so because he's a special snowflake character.

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  3. #122
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
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    KingofCretins and Vampire in Rug , Spike vs. Xander isn’t relevant to BtVS 10.01 and I’d feel silly actually creating a “Spike vs. Xander” thread. If you want, you can copy and paste whatever in this thread: and I’ll respond to such ‘Spike vs. Xander’ stuff in that thread if you first create your own ‘rankings list’.

  4. #123
    Slayer Jack Shaftoe's Avatar
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    Traditionally, “one-on-one fights” refers to fights without additional weapons being used. If one gives Xander “a flamethrower or Molotov cocktails, or crossbow or whatever”, give a non-chipped Spike a shotgun and Xander is toast.
    What the hell are you talking about? Additional weapons? I guess Buffy vs Angel in Becoming wasn't a one-on-one fight either, because neither of them uses swords usually. You frequently come up with this type of "clarifications" and try to move the goal posts when people refute your claims.

    Obviously, even if Xander had such weapons and Spike was unarmed, unless Xander attacked Spike when Spike was sleeping and Spike didn’t awake in time, Spike would easily kill Xander.
    I love how you use the word obviously when you obviously mean "in my opinion" but as usual, you try to present it as a fact.

    Little known fact: the spell that Spike used to shut down Acathla was actually taught to him by Xander. Sure, Xander never intentionally performed a spell that we saw *onscreen*, but offscreen, Xander was actually the inventor of that spell. Joss Whedon actually confirmed this in an interview one time, but I can't find the quote so you'll just have to take my word on it.
    Xander: "Willow, you are the best human ever! I adore you! Well, that's the cookies talking, but you rock!"

  5. #124
    Library Researcher PuckRobin's Avatar
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    I just have to ask - Spike vs. Xander? Is this a sarcastic-quips-at-twenty-paces kind of thing?

  6. #125
    Moderator Sosa lola's Avatar
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    Buffy Season 10 #1 Review

    “Sometimes it’s good to get back to the basics.” I’ve been told this season is too heavy on meta and so far the first line of the very first issue proves that right. S10 is trying to get that familiar feeling of the show back after two seasons packed with:
    a) out there storylines and situations (S8: space frak. S9: Fake pregnancy/robot),
    b) promoting liberal ideas instead of offering solid storylines (S8: Buffy/Satsu. S9: Abortion),
    c) silly and ludicrous new inventions (S8: Seed of Wonder. S9: Billy the Vampire Slayer),
    d) character assassinations (S8: poor Angel. S9: almost every slayer hating on Buffy because she broke the Seed of Wonder – Joss just can’t help but revert to his old lazy and unimaginative sacrificing characterizations of other characters in order to woobify Buffy.)

    I’m a bit fuzzy on the details of S9, but I don’t remember this redheaded vampire helping Buffy slay. Their dynamic reminds me of early S5 Spuffy. So, her name is Vick and Buffy doesn’t want to get attached to her because she knows she’s going to stake her eventually – after they finish off all the zompires. This does feel a bit “ooky,” not only do they know her, but she’s helping them slaying.

    I gotta admit this new Scooby slayage business is so awesome and refreshing after seasons of watching Buffy slay alone. Everyone has a cool and suitable job. Though so far no Xander. Loving Dawn as wheel girl!

    “Poor Willow. She was lost when magic went away.” S9’s most wasted opportunity was Willow. I would have loved to be shown Willow adjusting to life without magic and then realizing she doesn’t really need it in order to make a useful and accomplished woman of herself. I just can’t really relate to Willow anymore. I miss when I did back when Willow wasn’t all about magic.

    “I got our father figure killed.” So much wrong with this line I don’t even know where to begin! FATHER FIGURE!! It’s okay for the writers and fans to be referring to Giles by that, but NOT the Scoobies!

    I’m liking Spike as one of the Scoobies. It’s long overdue to be honest. This could have happened in S7 if the writers weren’t so adamant on separating characters into pairs: Buffy/Spike, Xander/Anya, Willow/Kennedy.

    Can’t get enough of Andrew’s crush on Spike. Also, joining the sighs of awe at the coolness that is Spike. Cute.

    And finally, my boy shows up! Or at least, his voice. Dawn calls Xander to warn him about the zompires – he asks her if she’s okay, which really isn’t the time as wheel woman is driving for her life. What I remember from S9, Xander betrayed his friends to save Dawn’s life – as she gradually started to disappear due to the lack of magic and along with her the memories of her – and after they have saved her life, Dawn didn’t really come back the way she was. Emotionally she’s back to the beginning: S5 Ep 1. Which kinda doesn’t make sense, shouldn’t she be having the feelings and desires of a 14 year old? Seems it was only done to make her not love Xander anymore – which appears to be the only side effect as she acts like a true 19/20 year old. The writers could have just had her break up with Xander because of his betrayal.

    Poor Xander looks extremely sad with his stubble of pain. Talking to Ghost Anya about his relationship troubles. Anya is still blaming Xander for everything that went wrong in her life: losing her vengeance demon powers, being left at the altar, and then killed. I’ll give her the first two, but being KILLED? Anya chose to fight in Chosen free willingly, that’s not Xander’s fault.

    I really hate Xander’s “Being normal doesn’t mean being helpless” and Dawn’s “We’re all super in our own way. Or so the super people keep telling me.” This is too preachy for my taste. Xander and Dawn can prove their worth with their actions as shown in the issue. No need to hammer that point.

    I personally don’t mind Billy pretending to be a slayer. I find it so refreshing for a boy to be so influenced by a strong woman and wanting to be just like her.

    LOL at Andrew admiring Billy choosing the life he wanted and to hell with convention, Dawn mistaking what he said for coming out, but he was talking about being a male Slayer.

    Okay, my ooky feelings about Vick? Gone. Kill her, Buffy!

    I love how Dawn and Andrew are dragging Xander inside to safety and away from the fight – while I love supporto-accepting his limits-okay with being in the sidelines Xander, I just can’t help but being more attracted to “stand up to danger, even when his hands had no weapons” Xander.

    “I’ve got body image issues.” Andrew, dude, that’s one hell of a chest! You’re hot. Embrace it.

    Team B for the win! So is Spike and Xander’s protectiveness of Dawn. So is Dawn standing up to herself!

    Faith to the rescue! And I can’t describe how happy I am to see Leah, she’s one of S8’s original characters that I wish got more development and panel time. In fact, I’d love to see more of Leah, Satsu and Rowena in future issues.

    “Kennedy, this is great! And also awkward!” It’s been a long time since Willow’s break up with Kennedy, unless they haven’t talked since then. I don’t remember S9 well.

    I did NOT know the Scoobies haven’t met Kid Giles yet. This woman needs to reread S9 and A&F S9.

    The Buffy/Giles hug! The Buffy/Giles hug! Aw!

    The letters section mentions Xander brining up Jesse! That was one of the highlights of S9. Jesse should have been a major plot point to develop Xander’s character in S1. Shame on you, Joss.

    So, final thoughts. Great issue! And an exciting beginning to S10. I can’t wait to read #2.
    Made by Trickyboxes
    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

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