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Thread: 5 x 11 500 Years of Solitude

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    Default 5 x 11 500 Years of Solitude

    OK, I'm starting this thread specifically so I can squeal delightedly about Klaus/Caroline. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! I am so pleased that they made a point of doing that, although I certainly wish that they hadn't then brought Tyler back. Let the poor girl have a whole day to enjoy the afterglow of sex with Klaus!

    I must say, I'm disappointed in Elijah for NOT coming to see Katherine on her deathbed, since he obviously must know about it if Klaus and Rebekah both did. Really deep feelings he must have had for her, right? Sheesh.

    I am still processing the twist ending with Katherine.

    It was SOOOOOO awesome to see all the characters from seasons past. Jenna! Alaric! It was even nice to see Vicky.

    I can't believe that Caroline was gloating over Elena's breakup just because she disapproves of Damon so much. That was very insensitive. And it is really, really weird that she 1) didn't just assume Jeremy and Bonnie would have had sex by now, and 2) felt that they should have told her about it. I know these girls are young, but I don't remember feeling the need to obsessively tell my friends every last detail of my love/sex life at that age, especially considering how snotty Caroline has been about Damon. Maybe now Caroline has had a little roll in the hay with Klaus she'll climb down off of her high horse!

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    I really liked Stefan in this episode. I really enjoyed his scenes with Katherine and how he wanted her to just be able to find peace. Sadly I think all Stefan’s goodwill towards here will vanish once he finds out she’s in Elena. If Katherine is going to die, I think this was the episode to do it. Putting her in Elena (only to kill her later in the season) kind of ruins the story arc that she’s had this season.

    I really disliked Damon in this episode. I could not believe that he decided to blame every horrible thing he’s ever done on Katherine. He needs to start taking responsibility for his own actions. If memory serves Damon wanted to be a vampire and asked Katherine to turn him. Bonnie’s grandmother died because Damon, Stefan & Anna were forcing them to open the tomb (that they didn’t have sufficient power to open – since the Martin witches needed a full moon to drop the seal). It was not Katherine’s fault in the least. I also could not believe that Matt blamed Katherine for Vicki’s death. Damon turned Vicki into a vampire for no apparent reason and then Stefan staked her – Katherine was not at all involved in any of that. I also was totally baffled as to how Alaric’s death was Katherine’s fault. It was Alaric’s multiple deaths (two of them caused by Damon) that gave him an evil alter-ego and it was Esther who turned him into a vampire (because Damon & Stefan insisted that Bonnie free her from the coffin).

    I knew Elena would be all in a huff about Stefan & Katherine. She always acts this way – when she found he slept with Rebekah she was like this (Oddly she seems to forget that Stefan actually used to date her). When she was afraid that Stefan might be with Tessa she marched over to put an end to it. So she actually ended up taking the news better than I thought she was going to.

    I also liked the Klaus/Caroline interaction. They have good chemistry and are fun to watch. Does anyone else even know Klaus was in town? He said he showed up to see Katherine but it didn’t look like he actually did. I did like that Caroline really was just honest with him about how she felt because I think that really needed to happen and she already knows how he feels. I kind of knew that they would probably kiss from the spoilers but I was kind of surprised that they had sex in the middle of the woods. For some reason I always thought that Klaus would actually get her in bed. In a way they’re still sort of where they were before – it’s up to Caroline what happens now (which is where they left things in Graduation). Although I expect this will be it for now since Klaus will be busy in NO and Caroline will stay in MF.

    I also find Caroline more tolerable when she's with Klaus. In most of her other scenes she's staring to grate on my nerves. I think she really needs to stop getting so involved in everyone else's love lives. I don't think Elena needs to hear about her brother's sex life and it was obvious that Bonnie & Jeremy had zero interest in discussing Stefan & Katherine's sex life. I just want Caroline to actually get a story-line of her own so she can stop injecting herself into other people's business all the time.

    I felt like Rebekah’s appearance was slightly wasted. She and Matt didn’t get much screen time at all.

    I did kind of like seeing Jenna, John, Vicki & Alaric back. Tyler really had the worst time in coming back to town.

    Why couldn’t Jeremy see Vicki? He used to be able to see her.

    I also knew that Katherine was going to possess Elena weeks ago so I wasn’t the least bit surprised by that. There was a spoiler about some sort of body-swap and a lot of people started speculating that Katherine & Elena would either switch bodies or share one.

    Still not sure what the Travellers want with doppelganger blood but I’m guessing that will be the storyline for the next half of the season.

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    Klaus was in town to "gloat" over Katherine's decaying body. He did not see her, however, as he promised Caroline that he would disregard his revenge-y feelings about her if Caroline would tell him the truth. And she told him the truth. So he simply left town. After banging her, of course.

    Jeremy and seeing ghosts has bothered me all this season. I mean, he should be able to see anyone on the "other side" but it seems like too often Bonnie sees someone and he does not, even if they are both in the same room. It's weird.

    I think it was super cool how they got all those people to do quick cameos. I mean, sheesh, John said like three words and poof! he was gone. Pretty cool of all those actors to show up. Also...Alaric! Of all our deary departed characters I miss him the most. And all his scenes with Damon. Loved them together!

    I really enjoyed it. The twist at the end was unsurprising, and this coming from someone who hasn't been reading many spoilers this season. I do wish the show could still surprise me like it used to. But hey, it's still fun!

    And I love Caroline but OMG, girl. Shut up about Damon. You hate him. We get it. And she has every right to. Of course she does. Completely justified. But now that's she's slept with Klaus she has relinquished her right to judge anyone else about who they sleep with. Still, it was nice to see her be honest with herself. I bet she feels like Elena used to when she hated herself for having feelings for Damon.

    Not sure what the deal is with the doppelganger blood, but surely it can't be good. Is there some new big bad on the way? We haven't had one in awhile.

    And excuse me while I at Tyler. Such a nomad. He just disappears for extended stretches and then shows back up. And then he leaves again. Perhaps the writers just need to kill him and off be done with it already.

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    I was thinking that they needed the doppleganger blood for power for a spell (like Tessa did); maybe they need it to remove Elena from the body so Katherine can have it. I also was disappointed by her decision to avoid dying by stealing Elena's body. They always do this with Katherine- they get you to like her in spite of everything she'd done in the past and just when you start to feel good about her, they pull some kind of O'Henry ending to show that she really hasn't changed at all. They do it with Damon, too. They'll show him being more mature and committed to not being who he used to be, and then BAM! He's sneaking off to murder Whitmore descendants even though he's with Elena and should presumably be focused on that.

    I was pretty appalled with Damon, taunting her on her death bed like that. Although considering what she did in the end, maybe he was more justified in it than it seemed at the time. I also don't understand how everyone can say Katherine is to blame for everything that has ever happened, although some of them actually do go back to her more than it seemed at the time. It is true that if Damon had not believed Katherine to be in the tomb, he would not have been in town to set her free and therefore would not have turned Vicky and etc., but it's not as if him turning her had anything to do with Katherine. And really, if anyone is to blame (under the theory he gave) for Damon's conduct as a vampire, it's Stefan. Damon didn't want to turn after he thought Katherine was dead and was going to just die, and Stefan more or less forced him to drink blood and become a vampire. But it's not like Stefan forced Damon to become the kind of vampire he became. Although honestly, the more they retcon his character the less he seems like a monster. First he was the more responsible one, telling Lexi to help Stefan because he needed it. Then they show him (twice!) trying to reconnect with Stefan as brothers. Now with the Enzo story line, they have provided a very sympathetic and plausible way to explain why he had to shut off his emotions, and who knows how long they were shut off. The more they write, the less actual badness is in Damon's past. Which I guess they had to do, but every time it makes me roll my eyes because it makes the story from season 1 so inconsistent.

    It was nice to see Liz for a change!

    I think with Jeremy, the reason he doesn't always see ghosts the way Bonnie does is because he has to be thinking about them at the same time they're thinking of him for that to happen. He said something like that to Anna. But of course then I don't really understand why he was able to see Rose, since it's doubtful she would have ever been thinking of him. Bonnie can always see them because they're physically present on the Other Side, and she can see both sides at once.

    Tyler... I really don't know what they're going to do with him at this point. If Caroline goes back to him, I will vomit. Nothing has really changed except that his plan for revenge was an abject failure. He still picked revenge over Caroline. I hope Caroline will keep the tryst with Klaus a secret, because it should be, but I'm sure she'll blab about it in the next episode because that's what always happens.

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    If Tyler wanted Caroline back, it would be pretty horrible. My respect for Caroline seriously took a hit from that episode. Call it slut-shaming if one must, but damn. Klaus murdered Jenna. Murdered Tyler's mother. Murdered, in point of fact, Tyler. Intended to murder Caroline herself as his vampire sacrifice, the failure of which is why he murdered Jenna. Has never repented any of these things even a fraction as contritely as Damon did killing Vicki back in Season 1. While Candice and Joseph Morgan have lovely chemistry snarking at each other, the good and proper order of the universe was for that to always end with her shutting him down.

    And of course, the hypocrisy of every word she has ever said to Elena about Damon. Maybe she'll rationalize that she'd have been okay with Elena taking the same "hit it and quit it" attitude with him she had toward Klaus, but it's still made a fraud of most of her lectures.

    Overall, I think the end was a little too telegraphed for it to be a surprise -- this seemed obvious from the time Nadia first brought it up before this episode. The only surprise to it was the thing that, by no coincidence, seems to be completely unjustified in the plot, that Nadia was in it with her to take over Elena. But I did love seeing a look inside Katherine's mind and her pathos. I am not even particularly mad that she did what she did -- why not? They failed utterly to imply earlier in the year that the host is somehow immediately endangered by having a passenger, not as though Elena is going to be "erased", and going from the preview
    Spoiler:
    it seems that the plan, at least, is for this to be a temporary arrangement, what with the fascination with getting Katherine's body.
    She was true to her nature to the very last and I respect that. It's why she's probably still my favorite female character on the show.

    Loved the short and slightly cheap cameos. Sara Canning and Matt Davis in particular... this show got worse each time one of them left it as regulars.

    This season has been pretty astoundingly disappointing so far, and I'm starting to feel a bit "Heroes"-ish about TVD in general, but this episode at least advanced the ball a bit. My hope/speculation is that whatever ongoing plot they have with the Augustines will result in a restored Katherine being the subject of the serum, and her niche will be as the vampire that's into diablerie (there's my "Vampire: The Masquerade" geek bona fides. Not sure if the term ever came up in "Kindred: the Embraced", but the gist is it's the White Wolf word for "vampires feedin' on vampires"). Well, the first since Klaus' dad anyway.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 25-01-14 at 06:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    If Tyler wanted Caroline back, it would be pretty horrible. My respect for Caroline seriously took a hit from that episode. Call it slut-shaming if one must, but damn. Klaus murdered Jenna. Murdered Tyler's mother. Murdered, in point of fact, Tyler. Intended to murder Caroline herself as his vampire sacrifice, the failure of which is why he murdered Jenna. Has never repented any of these things even a fraction as contritely as Damon did killing Vicki back in Season 1. While Candice and Joseph Morgan have lovely chemistry snarking at each other, the good and proper order of the universe was for that to always end with her shutting him down.
    And Damon killed Elena's brother, murdered her guardian, tried to kill all her friends at some point, brainwashed and raped her best friend for weeks, turned and f*cked her biological mother (ewww), he's the brother of her ex (eww), and yet Delena is one of the two main relationships the show is centered around, with millions of shippers. And the show's "pure" heroine is involved.

    This show is ALL ABOUT moral relativism and very gross all around.

    So all the Caroline hate and slut shaming I'm seeing on the internet right now is sickening me.

    It's not like she wants to be in a relationship with Klaus and to marry him... she HATES that she has any sorts of feelings for him (the sorts of feelings you can't control... ask Elena), but she does. She gave in to the lust as closure, for both of them. The Klaroline thing that Plec started (and maybe regretted, since A LOT of people jumped onto that bandwagon) was a loose thread hanging around that needed resolution, and it was resolved... I think the whole thing is over and done with now. They (and the fans) can move on. She had a one night stand (hate sex, almost?) with a very dubious partner, she's not above making mistakes... that's hardly the worst thing people on this show have done.

    And of course, the hypocrisy of every word she has ever said to Elena about Damon. Maybe she'll rationalize that she'd have been okay with Elena taking the same "hit it and quit it" attitude with him she had toward Klaus, but it's still made a fraud of most of her lectures.
    Yes, this is an issue, but I think it's explainable, and it all depends on HOW they follow up in the next episodes.

    Caroline has valid reasons to hate Damon, and as a friend, to be concerned about Elena. But her attitude towards Elena wrt her relationship with Damon crossed the line into being very annoying when she kept bashing Damon at every occasion and letting Elena know much she disapproved of her being woth Damon at every turn...even celebrating their breakup to Elena's face.... dude, rude!!!! It was never her place to judge, and lately she hasn't been a very supportive friend to Elena.

    I think part of Caroline's problem with this are her issues with Damon, but I also think that she was majorly projecting her own thing with Klaus onto Delena.

    If from now on her attitude doesn't change and she keeps giving Damon and Delena grief, then yes, she will be a major hypocrite, and her character will be very ruined. But if her sleeping with Klaus helps her change her outlook on things and understand Elena better, mature a little and be less judgemental and self-righteous, then it will not be character assassination, but character development.

    As for the rest of the episode, I didn't want Katherine to die because she's my favourite.... but i'm disappointed, very disappointed because I was rooting for some sort of redemption for her. I would have preferred her to die peacefully rather than this hijacking Elena business... because the only thing that will come from that is that Katherine will mess with both brothers again, de facto restarting the lame triangle. And when the others find out what's going on, they'll use the travellers dagger and they will kill Katherine to free Elena. And all the beautiful Katherine/Stefan stuff in this season will be destroyed because she harmed special Elena.

    I'm not happy.
    Last edited by Francy; 25-01-14 at 08:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    If Tyler wanted Caroline back, it would be pretty horrible. My respect for Caroline seriously took a hit from that episode. Call it slut-shaming if one must, but damn. Klaus murdered Jenna. Murdered Tyler's mother. Murdered, in point of fact, Tyler. Intended to murder Caroline herself as his vampire sacrifice, the failure of which is why he murdered Jenna. Has never repented any of these things even a fraction as contritely as Damon did killing Vicki back in Season 1. While Candice and Joseph Morgan have lovely chemistry snarking at each other, the good and proper order of the universe was for that to always end with her shutting him down.
    Caroline has killed 15 people in the span of this show (a carnival worker, two of her mother's deputies & 12 witches). Last season Caroline actually asked Klaus to let Jeremy kill one of his hybrids - so she was partly responsible for that murder as well. I can't remember for sure but I think she may have actually known that Damon was going to kill Mason Lockwood and just stood aside and allowed it to happen. Everyone on this show is pretty much guilty of murder so it's all very morally ambiguous. They only really seem to care if the person who was murdered was part of their little group. They've sort of had a tribal mentality for a while now.

    I certainly don't think Tyler and Caroline should ever get back together. I liked their friendship in Season 2 but once they actually got together it didn't feel like much of a relationship - just a string of hook-ups. After the way Tyler behaved earlier this season I don't think Caroline should ever get back together with him. He ignored all of her phone calls for months and then when he comes back he allowed her to believe that he was back and they'd be together and he actually slept with her knowing the entire time that he had zero plans to stay and was planning to go off on a suicide mission. It just felt like he was stringing her along and I was glad she decided not to put up with it anymore.

    I also feel like Klaus wasn't just going around killing people for the hell of it - the way Damon was. Klaus was completely determined to break the hybrid curse (sort of like Damon was determined to get that tomb open and made that his life goal) and I don't think killing three strangers to do it was an issue for him. Klaus didn't actually meet Caroline until Season 3. I guess Katherine mentioned Caroline to him but it seemed like he knew Damon or Stefan would try to stop him so he used them as decoys and knew one of the Salvatores would save them. Damon killed Klaus' witch and so forth so Klaus it seemed like used Jenna to get back at him. In hind-sight the curse breaking could have been handled better. I think Klaus would have been fine with Elena surviving (Bonnie could do a protection spell like she did for Professor Shane and she would have survived) and I think any werewolf or vampire would have been fine with him.

    Yes, Klaus turned Tyler into a vampire but that doesn't really seem to bother anyone on this show. Caroline doesn't seem upset with Katherine for turning her into a vampire. And wasn't Tyler uninterested in the cure because he didn't want to go back to being a werewolf and having to turn on every full moon? As far as Carol Lockwood goes I really think Tyler sort of brought that on himself to an extent. I'm not sure how he was expecting Klaus to respond - but he should have seen that coming (in fact Katherine warned everyone that doing things like that was his MO back in Season 2). Had Tyler not been trying to bury Klaus in concrete (when he wasn't even doing anything other than working with Stefan to find the cure for Elena and doing things like going as Caroline's date to town events) Klaus would not have felt forced to retaliate and he wouldn't have killed Tyler's mother. Yeah, he didn't have to kill Carol but Tyler plotting against him just seemed be the final straw for him (after having been dessicated - which he didn't retaliate for).

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    Maybe I am missing the point with slut-shaming - I thought it was the unfair/disproportionate condemnation of women for... having sex. But that has never been an issue with me or anyone else with Caroline that I know of. Don't know if she did or didn't with Matt, but she certainly seems to serial date from Matt to Tyler to at least liking Jesse, and she could have had sex with any or all of them, fair enough. The Klaus thing isn't about sexual impropriety, but ethical impropriety. Maybe the idea is old fashioned, but sex is still a pretty fundamental sharing of oneself, of opening, and kind of an endorsement of the partner as a likely or worthy sort for it. So it is pretty glaring when someone sleeps with someone so awful as Klaus. One might say we get a little of our sexual partners on us, figuratively as well as literally.

    Caroline has killed... a carnival worker, when she had no clue whatsoever what was happening to her or fully understood the danger she posed. The witches she killed defending the life of a third party, which is when you or I or anyone else would typically be legally and morally privileged to do so -- that the rest were linked was not her fault. I don't remember the deputy. But all things considered, Caroline has a pretty clean history of violence.

    Klaus murders for convenience, murders in fits of pique, murders for the lulz (like when he has Stefan kill those two women), murders for experimental purposes (trying to make hybrids). I agree totally I'm glad she put Tyler on the curb, he didn't deserve her if he was just bent on Klaus Klaus Klaus. I find Klaus a more interesting character by far than Tyler and better acted, but I think Hannibal Lector is a helluva character, too -- doesn't mean they are anybody a self-respecting and ethical person should ever sleep with. Is that slut-shaming? When the issue isn't that Caroline needed to get a leg over in the woods at that given moment, but rather who she chose to indulge that with? Or, if that's slut-shaming, is slut-shaming itself still bad when the thing is objectively shameful?

    I wasn't defending Damon above, btw, just pointing out as frame of reference what a contrite apology for idle vampire murder looks like to demonstrate we've never seen anything like it from Klaus. I don't want to get into a murder by murder breakdown for him, but he's a bad dude, he's a murderous awful bad dude. Lines like that are the ones we have fanfic for if we need to have them crossed.

    I'm not on Caroline's side with her Stefan is awesome and Damon is horrible, either, because... Stefan is also horrible (I refer again to the aforementioned pulling people apart and putting them back together). I don't play Angel/Angelus games over these vampire characters and their humanity switches, and Elena pretty much lost me with that poor waitress. Caroline, though, should probably just shut the front door on the subject of Vampire Ethics and Dating now.

    All in all, Caroline is still my favorite vampire on the show, even, but that was pretty much her low point as a character for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    The Klaus thing isn't about sexual impropriety, but ethical impropriety. Maybe the idea is old fashioned, but sex is still a pretty fundamental sharing of oneself, of opening, and kind of an endorsement of the partner as a likely or worthy sort for it. So it is pretty glaring when someone sleeps with someone so awful as Klaus.
    I am surprised how easy it is to forget all the violence and victimization Caroline has endured and how that must shape her. Damon abused and tried to kill her, Matt turned on her and along with her mother tried to kill her, her father strapped her to a chair and tortured her because he couldnt accept his daughter was a vampire, while her relationship with Tyler was born out of the violence of her murder and his wolf transformation both caused by Katherine.

    When compared to this list, Klaus has been pretty decent to Caroline. It is debatable if he ever had any intent to kill her when she was werewolf poisoned. Ultimately he saved her each time rather than someone else rescuing her like she had to be from the others on the list. Klaus also went out of his way to rescue her from outside threats multiple times. Klaus forgave her for all the times she took advantage of his trust and affection to distract him while others plotted his demise. Klaus has indulged her childhood whimsy while encouraging her to become her own independent person not held down by the small town and its opinions.

    Yes, Klaus is horrible, but he has been kind to her largely in a way she has not been treated. Or at least it has been unconditional on who she is.

    Tyler was affectionate and a good boyfriend when in town. It is why she repeatedly chose him. But he was always leaving, often by his own choice. Being repeatedly abandoned isnt the most healthy of relationships. Tyler ultimately choosing revenge over his love for Caroline was a cruel blow.

    I dont find it unreasonable for Caroline to have an attraction to someone who has rescued her repeatedly, said he would wait for her, respected her wishes, and encouraged her to be independent. Klaus might think it is darkness, but he has actually done a lot of things a good boyfriend might do. Her mind might know all the things Klaus has done, but her id craves that kindness and affection that Klaus has shown her.

    So if you believe sex must relect oneself and endorsement of partner, then you should not ignore these aspects.

    There are plenty other issues at hand with why Caroline might have chosen to sleep with Klaus that have nothing to with her accepting Klaus for all his horrible deeds.

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    Also, if one is seeking morality and ethic, this is not the show for that. I am not able to take anything on this show seriously anymore, with all the killing and then becoming best friends with your murderer, the stealing family members' partners and then having said family member play couple counsellor for the new couple, the caring about murder only when someone in your close circle is killed but not giving a damn about anyone else (see Elena and friends killing Kol and his thousands of vampire descendants without a second thought), and I could go on forever. In a show where everything is gross and f***** up on a regular basis, I don't get why Klaus/Caroline has to be singled out as this atrocious thing.

    But to each their own!
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    My thoughts on this episode:

    I LOVED all the old characters that got to visit, even if only for a couple of seconds. I literally gasped at getting to see Alaric, Jena, Vicki, and even Jon again... I thought their appearances were absolutely awesome and written well into the plot of the episode.

    I have always hated Katherine, but I was deeply touched by Stefan reaching out to comfort her inside her mind. I thought that scene was beautiful and true testament to who Stefan is at his heart. However, that twist at the end left me PISSED. I'm so freaking over the whole doppelganger storyline, and it felt like a cop out to the whole Silas/Stefan thing that happened earlier in the season. WTF. And if we're going to get a Traveler storyline, they should have let it be Matt. He deserves a great storyline on the show.

    Can I just say that my vagina freaking EXPLODED over the Klaroline goodness?! I've shipped them since Day 1. They are absolutely delicious together. I love how Klaus makes Caroline question everything in her life, and I love that she brings out the best in him.

    I agree with Francy. If you're looking for a show where all the characters are upstanding moral citizens, TVD is definitely not for you. I have been a Klaroline shipper since Day 1. I don't think it's out of character at all that she chose to sleep with Klaus. Caroline obvious has cared for Klaus for a while, or else she wouldn't have done certain things. She has pretended to hate him all this time, and yes, she probably should if you want to base it off the things Klaus has done to her and her friends. But Klaus is no more evil than Damon or even Stefan when he was in his Ripper days. Not many of the characters on the show are clean of blood on their hands...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisMRS View Post
    And if we're going to get a Traveler storyline, they should have let it be Matt. He deserves a great storyline on the show.
    With Silas, Amara & Tessa dead and the Augustine thing kinda wrapping up (I hope) I think that the Travellers may be the antagonist for the rest of the season (or at least it looks to me like that's what's going to happen). Hopefully we'll find out more about them and what their agenda is and why they needed buckets of doppelganger blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by HisMRS View Post
    I agree with Francy. If you're looking for a show where all the characters are upstanding moral citizens, TVD is definitely not for you. I have been a Klaroline shipper since Day 1. I don't think it's out of character at all that she chose to sleep with Klaus. Caroline obvious has cared for Klaus for a while, or else she wouldn't have done certain things. She has pretended to hate him all this time, and yes, she probably should if you want to base it off the things Klaus has done to her and her friends. But Klaus is no more evil than Damon or even Stefan when he was in his Ripper days. Not many of the characters on the show are clean of blood on their hands...
    Same here. Matt was hanging out in this episode with the guy who turned his sister into a vampire because he was bored and that guy's brother who drove a stake into her heart. Jeremy was also hanging out with Matt & Damon despite the fact that Damon once killed Jeremy (without the knowledge that he was wearing the Gilbert Ring). Caroline was also hanging around Damon as well - who used and abused her back in Season 1.

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    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
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    I don't care for Matt sleeping with Rebekah, either -- although I think in the context of this episode, they were merely civil with each other, and I am all for characters being civil to each other. It is probably easier to laugh off with Matt because him having a torrid affair with threesomes was a) largely off screen, and b) almost character fan service. I think one takes these things as seriously as the show takes the character, and it a good while since the show has taken Matt very seriously at all. Caroline doesn't have that problem.

    I watch any genre show through an ethical lens, always looking for the triumph of good over evil and virtue over vice. Part of the fun of TVD (GOT too) is just how little grip on true north the characters have. But it never just all becomes "okay", the awful things they do. I think the show suffers in the absence of Jenna and Alaric in particular for that. I think my favorite Alaric moment was him elbowing his way onto the Council because someone actually had to protect the town and the people in it.

    Anywho, Caroline and Klaus schtupping earned hotness points but little else good to say for it, other than to be relieved its out of hers (and her writers') system.

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    I think the reason Klaroline is appealing and not completely incomprehensible is because it was handled the way that it was. (Blatant fan-servicing notwithstanding.) I like their chemistry, but it would be completely unbelievable for Caroline to have an actual relationship with Klaus (at least any time in the next century) precisely because he has done so many horrible things to her and to people she cares about. But honestly, I like the complexity the show allows in acknowledging that someone as basically good as Caroline is can actually feel drawn to the good things about Klaus regardless of what she knows of his past- but only in a one on one setting. I don't agree that it's the dark side of her character responding to him, quite the opposite in fact. Her experience is the same as the viewers experience; if we as an audience hadn't been able to empathize with Klaus, he never would have become likable enough as a character to get a spin-off. It's like an acknowledgment that we don't always get to choose who we have a spark of attraction with.

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    Call me crazy, but something tells me we have not seen the last of Klaroline, and not just because I hope to hell we don't. LOL The writers have basically tied up all of Caroline's "loose ends" on TVD. As someone else said earlier in the thread, she basically has no storylines of her own right now, and she's just been "injected" in others' because she's there. I have a theory that the reason Caroline has no storylines of her own is because she's going to end up moving to "The Originals" as Klaus' love interest. Think about it... All her ties to Mystic Falls have been severed (aside from her mother living there). She said herself she has all the plans to go to college and go try new things... Why couldn't she do those new things in New Orleans?
    I know that she hates herself for feeling something for Klaus. I don't think what she feels is just pure lust that can be resolved in one episode, though. Think about all the times she was there for Klaus, even when she pretended to hate it. She cares about him more than sexually...

    I think the writers on TVD put these "detestable" characters who have done so many heinous things into romantic storylines because they are making a statement about the duality in people; that even the most horrible people who are capable of the most horrible things are also capable of being loved and being saved. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it's just something I've thought about over the past couple years with TVD.

    Anyway, I never thought about the ghost thing with Jeremy, but it makes sense that he wouldn't always be able to see them if they weren't thinking about each other at the same time. Isn't that kinda how it works with him?

    And I agree with whoever said that the Katherine ending was unsurprising. And the fact that it was SO predictable just tells me how tired the storylines on this show are. :\ I used to be soooo excited for The Vampire Diaries, but this season it just feels like they're reusing bits and pieces from previous storylines and it's gotten old.

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    Scooby Gang gregor's Avatar
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    I agree. Honestly, I think it was kind of inevitable that once Elena chose Damon the show would get stale because that question was the central tension in the show since it's inception. And they really haven't replaced it with anything else (that doesn't feel totally contrived for the sake of lengthening the run of the show). On Buffy there was always an implied question of Spuffy vs. Bangel, but it was not the central tension of the show. Buffy's love life was always a side issue that complicated things but did not dictate them. TVD, however, set itself up with two central tensions- the love triangle and the hate/love relationship between Damon and Stefan. In my opinion, they could have done themselves a favor by emphasizing the brother relationship over the love triangle if they wanted to make the tension last realistically. They shouldn't have made it all about who Elena would choose, because once she's chosen each of them once, what else is there to do?

    I also believe that Klaroline is probably not done, particularly if TVD gets cancelled before the Originals does (like the way that Spike ended up on Angel). TVD seems to have this issue with many of their characters right now. Tyler has nothing left on that show really. Bonnie and Jeremy, now that they have each other, don't have much new business either. Matt's storylines feel very forced, like they're not really sure how to keep him in the show. (Why is Matt not in college? He's never heard of a student loan?) It just feels like they've doubled down on Damon/Elena/Stefan, tossing Katherine in because fans like her, and the other characters are just filler. I couldn't care less about the Augustine story (except that it's appalling and makes me hate Elena's father), and the Enzo stuff seems like it's there just so that Damon and Elena can't be happy for more than half a season.

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    This episode made me angry because essentially, it was an episode devoted to characters celebrating the death of Katherine and mainly Damon was being stupid. Blaming everything on Katherine?
    I donīt know these characters anymore and the plots are just uninteresting and it seems "dumbed down".

    btw, I gave up watching it and Iīm gonna stick with the first three seasons.

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