Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: 9x03 I'm No Angel

  1. #1
    Thread Saviour Francy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    SG Command
    Posts
    1,036
    Thanks
    716
    Thanked 1,630 Times in 1,104 Posts

    Default 9x03 I'm No Angel

    This is going to be kind of rant-y and all over the place; this episode pissed me off, plus Iím sleep-deprived.

    I enjoyed seeing so much Cas; Misha gave a good performance. Another thing the episode did decently was portraying Cas as somewhat competent. Sure, he doesnít know how to use toothpaste, but I thought that the urinating and bathroom jokes would have been worse. Cas was shown as being able to fend for himself for the most part, good enough at fighting for his life, and clever enough to get himself a warding tattoo (where did he get the money for it????? NevermindÖ). Until of course he trusted the wrong person once again, and got himself killed. Luckily there was an angel in Sam at disposal.

    So, in sum: lots of Misha = good. The troubles lie with the writingÖ.

    After last weekís episode, I was hopeful that things were going to turn around, and that season 9 could turn out to be a good, if not great season. But after Iím No Angel, I see clearly that nothing has changed. The same problems that plagued season 8 have already shown up: character assassination/OOCness, canon-destruction, manufactured angst, bending characters to further contrived plot developments, etc.
    I wasnít expecting great things from this episode, knowing the writers behind it, but in some ways it was worse than I feared.

    Russ-Leming and Buckner have to go, the only reason they are still allowed to write is Singer. I blame him for everything, since Iím sure that he wouldnít let Carver fire his wife anyway. And whatís worse, it is rumoured that they are writing 9x09 (the midseason finale), which is supposed to be ďepic and amazingĒ (according to Jared) and thatís going to lead us into the winter hiatus. Why are they giving these talentless "writers" (I've censored myself here) all these important episodes, ffs?? If they have to stay, canít they just be relegated to MotW episodes, at least????

    There were so many problems with this episode.

    The Taxi Driver trend continues. Like that episode, 9x03 felt rushed and crammed. Too much stuff going on, with a weird pacing, a lot of focus on unnecessary things (the sex), and a lack of focus on more important ones (the final sceneÖ WTF???? ).

    Also, I donít get these writing duoís fixation with rogue Reapers, and why they insist in putting them in every episode, messing up the mythology more and more every time. Since when reapers possess people, and when killed project the same kind of white light as angels do??? Reapers get horny and have sex?? What a load of bullshit. Death wouldnít be impressed. Also, now angels possess people like demons do, through smoke in the mouth??

    Since the show decided to ignore the whole Daphne/Emmanuel thing and to make a point of Cas finally losing his virginity, why the hell did they choose to cheapen it in such a way, in an episode in which Cas had more important things going on (not starving or freezing, escaping hoards of angels wanting to kill him, etc), and with a reaper/villain who seduced him just because she had ulterior motives?? The whole thing was creepyÖ the reaper was possessing the poor girl (who ended up an innocent casualty), making the sex non-con on her part. And whatís worse was Casí unbelievable reaction to having just lost his virginity to someone who tortured and killed him, not to mention the fate of the poor girl. No shock, no sadness, no distress, no anythingÖ just Cas bragging to the brothers that he had sex with his murderer, and all of them joking about that. The whole thing was played for laughs and it was so inappropriate. This is kindergarden level writing.

    Why couldnít they leave the sex thing for a later episode, and treat it seriously and with respect? Why couldnít it be a positive, genuine connection for Cas instead of this travesty?

    Also, given that it was sooo important for Cas to experience every single human experience in the span of one week, including sex, I wish they had addressed the Jimmy issue openly on screen. Misha and also Jim Michaels, I think, confirmed on twitter and in interviews that Jimmy is dead and gone (probably has been for a long time), and that Cas is alone in the body. This is important if you have your character engage in sexual activities, and this is the only instance in which Iím missing Sera Gamble. At least she cared for this stuff. The fact that they didnít address it bugs me incredibly, because many of the casual/average/non interview reading viewers are still convinced that Jimmy is alive and cohabitating with human Cas, or worse that fallen Cas has become Jimmy (??). It would take two lines to solve this issue, but then why would they do it if they can joke about urinating insteadÖ.

    Another thing I didnít enjoy is that Cas was going by Clarence. It perpetrates the Megstiel crap, and I hate the Megstiel crap. Ugh.

    Of course, the thing that upset me the most was the final scene, in which Dean tells Cas to leave. I knew it was coming, because Iím a spoiler whore, but I would have never imagined that the scene would have been so badly written and executed. Even the worst case scenario in my head wasn't so horrible. The circumstances suck in any case, with Dean throwing his defenseless, just recently murdered and resuscitated friend to the wolvesÖ. but there were tons of ways to make the thing less obnoxious. Instead of giving us an emotional, powerful and tense scene in which our heart broke for both of them (for Dean having to make this choice, and for Cas being alone again), they gave such a delicate scene a mere 10 seconds of screen time, making it a cliffhanger. We donít get to see the convo that follows. And since we know that Cas/Misha is not supposed to be in the next 2 episodes, Iím going to assume that the whole thing will be dealt with off screen, and at the best it will just be mentioned in passing in the next episode (ďI gave Cas 10 bucks and sent him on his wayĒ). 9x04 is going to be a funny episodeÖ just the most logical thing every time something awful goes on between Dean and Cas. After Torn and Frayed we got jolly Dean larping with Charlie (with not even a mention of Cas, who had departed the previous episode all bloody and ďoffĒ); after this we are going to get Dean merrily Ozzing with Charlie. Iím sensing a disturbing patternÖ. Break Cas in the most horrible ways -> cheerful Dean.

    I donít get it. I donít get why it was necessary to have Dean in the position to have to throw Cas out of the bunker (the safest place in the world) 5 minutes after they brought him there, with the aggravating factor that he had just witnessed his friend being killed earlier. Is it because every single episode has to confirm and reaffirm that Sam comes first, and everyone else Ė no exception Ė can just go to hell? We know it. We know that Dean is allowed to care for people who arenít Sam only intermittently. One minute he seems to care, the next he seems to not give a damn. Itís been going on for seasons, with Cas mostly. Iím sick of it.

    Is it because the writers donít want Cas at the bunker (maybe because they know that the bro-only fans donít want him there?), even if the bunker is totally crowded with the brothers + Zeke, Kevin, and even Crowley? Ok, in that case it would have sufficed not to have Cas in the bunker at all (by his own choice, for example).

    Are they just trying to build up the angst and conflict, because thatís the only way they can write their 3 characters?? OkayÖ but will there be a payoff in the end?? Because Dean and Cas are rarely (never) allowed to have a satisfying resolution to their issues. The writers usually just throw more crap at their relationship, and then donít deal with it.

    If thereís one positive thing about all this, is that it seems that after having had Sam and Cas mess up season after season, this might be Deanís turn. Dean is wrapping himself in a web of lies, and if Zeke turns out to be problematic, it could make a refreshing change, provided that the writers donít brush Deanís actions under the rug. If in the end Deanís morally ambiguous actions are proved right once again, it will be disappointing for me.

    That said, I donít trust Ezekiel (heís made Cas sad, so heís even more in my black list now), but Iím kinda intrigued by what his motivations are.

    In a way, Iím kinda glad this terrible duo episode came this early, at least it made me lower my expectations for the whole season. Edlund, come back!!

    |LiveJournal| | |Tumblr|
    Icon by xiperita

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Francy For This Useful Post:

    Ehlwyen (23-10-13)

  3. #2
    Admin Ehlwyen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,340
    Thanks
    1,583
    Thanked 1,287 Times in 725 Posts

    Default

    Hey Ezekiel, if you dont think Cas should be at the bunker why not say something BEFORE we bring him here!?!!!

    I HATE that Ezekiel can just take over Sam now. It was okay in the first couple episodes when Ezekiel could only come to surface when Sam was unconscoius. I hate how this episode basically made Ezekiel's hiding out like demon possesion as well as angel possession appear as demon possession. So mad! And treating angel's purpose on earth to be businesslike was too similar to the leviathan for me. Boring! And wtf with the reaper stuff? I was soooooooo confused with girl actually being a reaper. Why the hell would a reaper possess someone when they can just get into someone's mind. I dont know how I feel that reapers are so close to angels in nature.

    This episode was mostly boring. Nothing new and very much paint by the numbers. Portraying a possession, just use the demons mythology. Its angels so paint it white and blue. Got a faction of creatures on earth, make them big business. Lets kill a main character for drama. No worries, angels can now bring people back from the dead. Why, they are angels! (Even Charmed was restrained enough to not allow angels to do this). Throw some slashy gore in and voila, it's done! Hang that Picasso on the wall!

    I am also upset to learn Francy that Dean's final words to Cas is all we will get of the scene. I had figured it was going to a cliffhanger where the next ep started with the rest of the conversation.

    I didnt hate the episode as much as I was very disappointed in it not being very interesting or promising for the rest of the season. I hope to find time to come back and say more.

    Lydia made the punch!

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Ehlwyen For This Useful Post:

    Cori (23-10-13)

  5. #3
    Roadie galathea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Offworld
    Posts
    1,232
    Thanks
    333
    Thanked 885 Times in 760 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    Russ-Leming and Buckner have to go, the only reason they are still allowed to write is Singer. I blame him for everything, since Iím sure that he wouldnít let Carver fire his wife anyway.
    I doubt that Singer can single-handedly decide which writers stay and which are fired. I don't think that's how it works. Besides, it's not like Ross-Leming/Buckner are squestered away in a sealed room to write their scripts. Usually, all writers give their input and a script goes through dozens of hands before it is filmed, so the blame for the epic canon failures of this writing team falls on the creative team as a whole, including Carver and Singer. It's a mystery how these things get past the more experienced writers AND the story editors who are responsible for story continuity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    I wish they had addressed the Jimmy issue openly on screen. Misha and also Jim Michaels, I think, confirmed on twitter and in interviews that Jimmy is dead and gone (probably has been for a long time), and that Cas is alone in the body.
    Unfortunately, the opinion of a director and of the actor who plays the character do not count as canon. It's just their interpretation, which isn't really any more valid than the interpretation of any of us. But I really agree on the point that, if they involve Castiel in sex scenes, the Jimmy issue needs to be addressed or it is just extremely bad taste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    We know that Dean is allowed to care for people who arenít Sam only intermittently. One minute he seems to care, the next he seems to not give a damn. Itís been going on for seasons, with Cas mostly. Iím sick of it.
    I think the only characters, where I ever felt that the overall writing truly supported Dean's close, familial relationship with them, were Bobby and John. With most other characters it always feels like he has an 'out of sight, out of mind' kind of relationship. It's not only with Castiel, but also Kevin or Ellen and Jo or Rufus. Dean is very social and makes friends easily, but I don't think he allows himself to get truly close to them, because he knows he will eventually lose them.

  6. #4
    Thread Saviour Francy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    SG Command
    Posts
    1,036
    Thanks
    716
    Thanked 1,630 Times in 1,104 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    I doubt that Singer can single-handedly decide which writers stay and which are fired. I don't think that's how it works. Besides, it's not like Ross-Leming/Buckner are squestered away in a sealed room to write their scripts. Usually, all writers give their input and a script goes through dozens of hands before it is filmed, so the blame for the epic canon failures of this writing team falls on the creative team as a whole, including Carver and Singer. It's a mystery how these things get past the more experienced writers AND the story editors who are responsible for story continuity.
    My theory is that they have stopped caring. They don't give a damn, also become no matter what stupidity they write/film, people will continue watching, and the acritical teenagers will still make and share hundreds of gifs on tumblr.

    They are not even trying anymore, as a team. But if they got rid of that terrible duo, it would be a start.

    But at this point, it's me who's stopped caring!

    Unfortunately, the opinion of a director and of the actor who plays the character do not count as canon. It's just their interpretation, which isn't really any more valid than the interpretation of any of us. But I really agree on the point that, if they involve Castiel in sex scenes, the Jimmy issue needs to be addressed or it is just extremely bad taste.
    It's more than an opinion... Misha had always been of the opinion that Jimmy was still alive, and it used to make me angry to hear him say that, because I supported the opposite interpretation.

    But now he's changed his tune, and he said that Jimmy is gone in an official interview (with tvline, I think), not in a con or a meet and greet. That makes me think that the point was discusses with the writers.

    Sure, if they don't include it in the actual show, it's all moot.

    I think the only characters, where I ever felt that the overall writing truly supported Dean's close, familial relationship with them, were Bobby and John. With most other characters it always feels like he has an 'out of sight, out of mind' kind of relationship. It's not only with Castiel, but also Kevin or Ellen and Jo or Rufus. Dean is very social and makes friends easily, but I don't think he allows himself to get truly close to them, because he knows he will eventually lose them.
    Well, it's gotten old. They had 9 years to change that. The truth is, imo, that the writers are as split as the fandom is, and Dean's attitude changes depending on who's writing the episode and on their views. So you go from Dean being willing to die for Cas in one episode, to Dean showing no concern and not even mentioning him. The fact that the only characters who are present on a regular basis are Sam and Dean doesn't help much.

    Anyway, I'm sick of the whole thing, and at this point I hate every single character and every single repetitive pattern of this show. I'm ready to quit out of exhaustion.
    Last edited by Francy; 23-10-13 at 03:27 PM.

    |LiveJournal| | |Tumblr|
    Icon by xiperita

  7. #5
    Bronze Party-Goer
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    179
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 86 Times in 56 Posts

    Default

    I was surprised that Dean agreed to tell Castiel to leave without being given a good reason as to why he couldn't stay.

    I feel like I mainly watch this show out of habit at this point. There are so many problems with the show at this point - I don't even know where to start.

  8. #6
    Scooby Gang Rosely's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    720
    Thanks
    705
    Thanked 475 Times in 366 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    Also, I don’t get these writing duo’s fixation with rogue Reapers, and why they insist in putting them in every episode, messing up the mythology more and more every time. Since when reapers possess people, and when killed project the same kind of white light as angels do??? Reapers get horny and have sex?? What a load of bullshit. Death wouldn’t be impressed. Also, now angels possess people like demons do, through smoke in the mouth??
    I was pretty sure that she was an angel. Otherwise how did Dean convince Sam and Cas that he made a deal with her and she brought him back?

    (Although the torture thing with the reaper was weird indeed, how could he die that way indeed?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    Why couldn’t they leave the sex thing for a later episode, and treat it seriously and with respect? Why couldn’t it be a positive, genuine connection for Cas instead of this travesty?
    Good point! I have no idea! The whole sex thing had me rolling my eyes. Since it made absolutely NO sense that April would bring a homeless man home?

    Well I suppose it was meant to be a give away that she was actually an angel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    I don’t get it. I don’t get why it was necessary to have Dean in the position to have to throw Cas out of the bunker (the safest place in the world) 5 minutes after they brought him there, with the aggravating factor that he had just witnessed his friend being killed earlier. Is it because every single episode has to confirm and reaffirm that Sam comes first, and everyone else – no exception – can just go to hell? We know it. We know that Dean is allowed to care for people who aren’t Sam only intermittently. One minute he seems to care, the next he seems to not give a damn. It’s been going on for seasons, with Cas mostly. I’m sick of it.
    I don't get it either. Wasn't the bunker the safest place in the world indeed? (Like you said).
    Although they were getting phone reception the last episode, so maybe something happened to it? I don't know?

    But I don't know about the caring claim. Dean truly cares for Cas. Just when it comes to choosing between Sam and Cas, he'll choose Sam. So that makes some sort of sense (the option was Sam would die... which is stupid too )

    Anyway, I really hate they made Ezekiel say that. It made no sense and it would've been nice to have the three of them work on a good base for their family/friendship bond.

    Then if Ezekiel wants Cas out, then why did he bring him back in the first place?

    it's seriously bad writing

  9. #7
    Thread Saviour Francy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    SG Command
    Posts
    1,036
    Thanks
    716
    Thanked 1,630 Times in 1,104 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosely View Post
    I was pretty sure that she was an angel. Otherwise how did Dean convince Sam and Cas that he made a deal with her and she brought him back?

    (Although the torture thing with the reaper was weird indeed, how could he die that way indeed?)
    No, she was a reaper. Some moron (a WB executive that supervises the show) said on twitter that reapers are angels! So basically more canon destroying.

    I guess now I have the answer as to why reapers die the same way angels do... because now apparently they are angels!


    But I don't know about the caring claim. Dean truly cares for Sam. Just when it comes to choosing between Sam and Cas, he'll choose Sam. So that makes some sort of sense (the option was Sam would die... which is stupid too )
    Everyone loves their siblings; most of us would put our siblings before anyone else. Dean and Sam are not special in this regard, they are just more unhealthily codependant because of the life they have lived, and because of Dean's issues.

    We already know that Dean will always put Sam first, they have been telling us and showing us for 8 seasons, the last time in Sacrifice, and in I Think I'm Going To Like It Here. So it was totally superfluous to have a storyline in which Dean openly has to chose between Sam and Cas. It's such a soapy thing, and at this point it's pure fanservice. It felt like a dig to Cas and his fans, to be honest... they could have avoided such an unnecessary and hurtful thing. Oh, well.


    Anyway, I really hate they made Ezekiel say that. It made no sense and it would've been nice to have the three of them work on a good base for their family/friendship bond.
    This is all I ever wanted, even just for a few episodes.. but it will never happen.

    Then if Ezekiel wants Cas out, then why did he bring him back in the first place?

    it's seriously bad writing
    Drama!!!!!!!! Angst!!!!!!!!!!

    |LiveJournal| | |Tumblr|
    Icon by xiperita

  10. #8
    Scooby Gang Rosely's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    720
    Thanks
    705
    Thanked 475 Times in 366 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    No, she was a reaper. Some moron (a WB executive that supervises the show) said on twitter that reapers are angels! So basically more canon destroying.

    I guess now I have the answer as to why reapers die the same way angels do... because now apparently they are angels!
    Oh okay.. that makes no sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    Everyone loves their siblings; most of us would put our siblings before anyone else. Dean and Sam are not special in this regard, they are just more unhealthily codependant because of the life they have lived, and because of Dean's issues.
    Yeah, I thought I had written Cas.. I meant Cas. Dean truly cares for Cas...


    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    We already know that Dean will always put Sam first, they have been telling us and showing us for 8 seasons, the last time in Sacrifice, and in I Think I'm Going To Like It Here. So it was totally superfluous to have a storyline in which Dean openly has to chose between Sam and Cas. It's such a soapy thing, and at this point it's pure fanservice. It felt like a dig to Cas and his fans, to be honest... they could have avoided such an unnecessary and hurtful thing. Oh, well.
    I don't know It annoyed me too.

    The least they could've done was to have Cas stay for an episode and have the angels actually get on their trail before Ezekiel would say that

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •