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Thread: 9x01 I Think I'm Gonna Like it Here

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    Default 9x01 I Think I'm Gonna Like it Here

    And they're back! One of the few good things of summer being over

    First of all, I really liked the new credits. I'm sure the people here that hate the Angel storyline, really didn't. But I thought they were pretty cool.
    The concept of all angels being fallen, but still having some kind of power, is good to me, but I do fear the overuse of it... I hope we will stay centric around our beloved main characters.

    I do hope Tahmoh will be around more often, but I fear the worst, since Ezekiel left his body.
    Still they could make him go back to that body again... lol

    So 'the big secret' that Dean has for Sam is that Sam is actually possessed by an Angel.. And that Dean kinda tricked him into it. Sorta, not really, but still. Ezekiel seems good and friendly enough, but this is Supernatural, so we know something is going to go wrong there. And Sam will doubtlessly be really angry... and all the 'goodness' we ended on in the church, will have to be rebuild again.. hmz

    Crowley in the trunk of the car... that was kinda funny
    I really wonder where they're going to take his character. Is he going to redeem himself?

    Who was the girl playing the Angel with Cas? Was that Willa Holland? She looked like her, but I wasn't sure.
    Cas... I am with Francy on disliking what the writers do with his character. Not sure what to say about him after this episode. I don't understand why he didn't realise he had no powers anymore sooner.

    Anyway, I liked the season opener well enough. It's not the best, but it's okay. And Death was there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosely View Post
    An

    Who was the girl playing the Angel with Cas? Was that Willa Holland? She looked like her, but I wasn't sure.
    No, she is April (that useless character) from The Vampire Diaries!

    All in all, I found this premiere pretty boring and underwhelming. There was really nothing particularly exciting, or that makes me look forward to the next episodes with anticipation.

    Some random and unorganized thoughts:

    The good:
    - The new title card is awesome
    - I like the fallen angels storyline, it brings a lot of possibilities...but there's a risk it might become repetitive soon
    - I loved Ezekiel, and Tahmoh!! I sure hope we see Tahmoh again. He's an angel, and this is SN... so I'm not sure we can fully trust him. Screw that, I'm sure he'll do something dickish along the way... but I hope against hope that he turns out to be good.
    - Naked!Cas LOL Kidding. It's too early to tell how they are going to handle Cas's new humanity, which is a storyline that could be very interesting, if done right (not that I have any trust in these writers. I'm DREADING episode 3 by the nepotism duo. I'm imagining all the possible ways in which they'll humiliate the character for a cheap laugh). In this episode I wasn't exactly blown away, but I'll give it time to unroll. I think it will get more interesting when Cas finally reunites with the brothers. I love Cas with all my heart, brain, guts, and every other organ... but he doesn't work so well for me when he is separated from the Winchesters.
    - The Cas/Dean phone call
    - Crowley in the trunk of the car
    - The tractor-driving angel LMAO
    - ??

    The bad
    Everything else.
    - Beyond bored with sick!dying!Sam and crying!at!his!bedside!Dean. It's trite, and every time it loses some more impact, because we all know that Sam is not going to die, and he'll be ok. Been there, done that a thousand times. At this point my only reaction is rolling my eyes, and playing with my browser.
    - Bobby's and Death's appearances were completely useless and wasted. Bobby wasn't even Bobby, but a figment of Sam's imagination, so I don't know why Jim Beaver was so excited about Bobby being back!
    - Dean violating Sam because he is unable to let him go.... if all people of earth were like Dean, and had the luxury of not accepting a loved one's death, the planet would be in trouble. Anyway, I feel like the show is crossing a dangerous line with Dean, one that may damage his character once and for all; we are not in brotherly/familial love territory anymore. We are in creepy, pathological obsession territory here.

    One could say: but the show is about Sam and Dean, so Sam couldn't die. Well, then the show shouldn't always put Sam in these almost-death situations just for the sake of stupid angst. It's becoming a joke. There was no reason why the last hell trial had to end with the person doing the trial dying, as a last sacrifice. They could have had Sam somehow failing to complete the trial, not even for his own fault but because of external obstacles. The hell gates would still not have been closed; Cas could still have f***** up and the angels could still have fallen, and the set-up for season 9 would have worked the same, or better. But no, they had to have this stupid and trite, "I can't let you die, there's no me if there ain't no you" broangst again, with the "choosing each other" (barf), Dean going to any lenght to save his brother, then lying about it, and the rest follows as per previous seasons. Or at least, if Sam was going to die anyway (to the point where Dean basically has to angel-rape him in order to save him), I wish Sam would have been allowed to finish the trial. How was not completing the trials good, if it didn't save Sam??

    This show sucks.
    - I don't know if it's the writing, or Misha's acting choices.... but I hate how they keep portraying Cas like a dimwit. He speaks like a simpleton!! He wasn't like that... go watch season 4. Where is THAT Cas??? In becoming friends with Dean and becoming more human, he must have lost some intellect along the way. So much frustration.

    Can't think of anything else right now, and I'm also in a rush...so that's it, I guess!
    Last edited by Francy; 09-10-13 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    One could say: but the show is about Sam and Dean, so Sam couldn't die. Well, then the show shouldn't always put Sam in these almost-death situations just for the sake of stupid angst. It's becoming a joke. There was no reason why the last hell trial had to end with the person doing the trial dying, as a last sacrifice. They could have had Sam somehow failing to complete the trial, not even for his own fault but because of external obstacles.
    I think this is the main problem, the constant repetitive writing. Sam didn't even have to fail to complete the trial. The whole point of the church scene at the end of Sacrifice was that Sam aborts the last trial in order to live! So all the writers had to do was to follow through on that plot point. Having Sam die anyway kinda defeats the purpose, and it's obviously only done to add some unnecessary angst and further conflict down the line. I am so sick and tired of Sam getting his agency taking away and being physically and mentally violated. And I am so tired of Dean being reduced to a walking impersonation of guilt, who cannot grow past his abandonment and self-worth issues. There was simply no reason to take this particular turn with the story. Carver may boast about how fresh and shocking this turn of events is, but in fact it's only a repitition of a story that has been done over and over again, only with different means.

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    Screw you, Carver! Not sure if I even want to continue watching this season. Last season they almost destroyed Sam's character for me and it looks like this season it's Dean's turn.

    Words cannot express how sickened and heartbroken I am that the writers felt Dean angel-raping Sam was the way to go this season. Dean was right when Ezekiel first brought up the idea, Sam would never say yes, not after everything he went through with Lucifer. And to make matters even worse Dean had Ezekiel erase Sam's memories! Sam is basically a puppet now. As much as I love (or loved) the brotherly relationship, if the writers continue to write it in such an unhealthy codependent manner, I just get turned off and don't care anymore and since at this point the brotherly relationship is the only thing that I watch this show for and the writers seem hellbent on destroying it, I might as well just stop watching now. If and when Sam finds out what Dean did to him, we will have yet another conflict between the brothers and I'm so sick and tired of this shit.

    It broke my heart that Sam seemed to accept his death and was really dealing with it and then Ezekiel showed up in Dean's body and the two of them tricked Sam into saying yes, into becoming a vessel against his will, into being angel-raped.

    And what exactly is so fresh and new about this storyline, like Carver was going on and on at Comic Con? Sam has been possessed before and he has been possessed by an angel before. Dean making questionable decisions to save his brother has happened time and again on this show. Dean lying to Sam about something and keeping a secret too. So what exactly is fresh and new about any of this? Nothing at all!

    As expected, the fallen angel storyline bored me to tears. I'm sure we will see MOTWs again with the boys working together but it sucks that I don't care about what's apparently the mytharc of this season in the slightest. Nor do I care about human Cas (sorry Cas fans) and how all the fallen angels are out to get him.

    I can honestly say that the only things that I liked in this episode was Tahmoh Penikett's portrayal of Ezekiel and Sam trying to maturely deal with and accept the matter of his own death.

    So I'm very very disappointed by this season premiere and since I don't want to come to hate one of my favourite TV characters ever (aka Dean Winchester), I'm seriously considering dropping the show now to save myself from further harm. I honestly don't see how Carver & co. can turn Dean's decision to have Sam become Ezekiel's vessel into something good. I might just have to come to terms with the fact that my love affair with Supernatural is over, which after all these years is very painful. I might give the show a couple more episodes to see if they can turn this around (they partly managed to do it in season 8) but IMO the season is certainly not off to a promising start.

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    Oh God Adam Glass has just tweeted the following:

    Dean DRIVES the story last night. He's on screen more then anyone.

    What's the pilot story? Dean goes 2 get Sam 2 find dad. My point is what you all fell in luv with still drives the show. Dean's luv 4 Sam.

    The personal sacrifices he makes 4 family. Sam and Dean's story is 4 ever entwined. They are two sides of the same coin. I just don't get it
    If he does not get why some fans have such strong objections to Dean plotting for Sam to be mentally and physically raped then I absolutely despair

    For me this episode was absolutely not about Dean's love for Sam, but about Dean meeting his own selfish needs no matter the cost.
    Last edited by Bittersweettwit; 09-10-13 at 06:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    If he does not get why some fans have such strong objections to Dean plotting for Sam to be mentally and physically raped then I absolutely despair

    For me this episode was absolutely not about Dean's love for Sam, but about Dean meeting his own selfish needs no matter the cost.
    Yeah, I read that tweet as well and was speechless. But then, these writers have never been good with consent issues and rape overtones. It has been a problem in other epsiodes as well (Wishful Thinking, Time for a Wedding), so this really should not surprise me as much as it does. These are not the kind of writers I want to deal with this kind of sensitive subject.

    I am also quite baffled by Glass' statement that this is about what Dean sacrifices for his family. I mean, what? Dean's propensity for self-sacrifice is well know, but this time Dean isn't actually sacrificing himself, he is sacrificing Sam! That is a whole different story. For the first he makes a choice about himself, for the latter he makes a choice for someone else. But apparently that nuance seems to escape these writers.

    You know what gets me? Last season, Sam was crucified by Dean (and fandom) for actually trying to make better choices than in the past and refrain from trying to bring Dean back from the dead. But I have little doubt that, by the end of this season, Dean will be validated for his egregious choice in the S9 opener.

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    Also, I'm pondering about the canonicity of all this....

    How is this thing with Ezekiel and Sam supposed to work, anyway?? So far we have always seen full angelic possession, meaning that when an angel was possessing a vessel, the angel was in total control, until they decided to leave the vessel. So, unless my faulty memory is betraying me, this partial/dormant possession is a first?

    And why would hiding in Sam heal Ezekiel, or Sam for that matter? We have seen before that when an angel is possessing a vessel that is not their true vessel, the vessel tends to not be able to contain the angel properly and deteriorate with the passing of time... Sam was/is Lucifer's designated vessel, so I don't see why a cohabitation with another random angel would be beneficial to either of them.

    And the thing that bugs me the most is the consent thing. It has always been made clear that an angel, unlike demons, needed a clear yes from the potential vessel in order to take possession of a body.

    But apparently any yes (coerced, obtained by manipulation, etc) does the trick, now; if all that it takes is tricking a potential vessel into saying a generic yes (Sam didn't know what he was saying yes to), then Zachariah, Michael and co were real morons, since they spent a year trying to convince Dean to say yes... they should just have appeared to him in a dream, or put an incantation on him or anything, and ask him some stupid question, like "Dean, do you want pie?" and BAM! YES!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    Also, I'm pondering about the canonicity of all this....
    You get extra points for trying to make sense of the angel mythology at this point. Here, have a cookie!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    How is this thing with Ezekiel and Sam supposed to work, anyway?? So far we have always seen full angelic possession, meaning that when an angel was possessing a vessel, the angel was in total control, until they decided to leave the vessel. So, unless my faulty memory is betraying me, this partial/dormant possession is a first?
    Yeah, it is a first. However, there is nothing in previous canon that contradicts the notion of a dormant angel within a host. Demons can do that, so why shouldn't angels? With the exception of the consent issue, I'd say the logistic of an angel possession is the same as a demonic possession. They can choose to let the host take over. Usually, that's not what they want, though, so we've never seen it before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    And why would hiding in Sam heal Ezekiel, or Sam for that matter? We have seen before that when an angel is possessing a vessel that is not their true vessel, the vessel tends to not be able to contain the angel properly and deteriorate with the passing of time... Sam was/is Lucifer's designated vessel, so I don't see why a cohabitation with another random angel would be beneficial to either of them.
    Well, the healing effect on Ezekiel is easy to explain: We know from Frontierland that the energy of a human soul is able to heal a wounded angelic grace. Remember, Castiel used Bobby's soul to heal from the wound Rachel inflicted on him with an angel sword. So, Ezekiel could nurse his own grace by connecting to Sam's soul. However, I am not sure why Sam would heal. In Goodbye Stranger Castiel stated that he cannot heal Sam because the trials changed him on a subatomic level, so I am not sure what Ezekiel can do about that.

    But well, I think it is indeed a bigger canonical problem that we have been told that every angel has a specific vessel bloodline, which implies that only humans from that very bloodline can actually host that specific angel. There are perfect vessels and lesser vessels for any specific angel, but a lesser vessel will eventually perish, because it cannot sustain an angel for a longer time. That's why Hale's (Hail's? The girl that was with Castiel) vessel started to decay only after a couple of hours, or why Nick, Lucifer's lesser vessel in S5 started to rot, even though he drank massive amounts of blood. So, since Sam is a Lucifer vessel and not a vessel from Ezekiel's bloodline, his body should not be able to host Ezekiel for any extended period of time, if at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    And the thing that bugs me the most is the consent thing. It has always been made clear that an angel, unlike demons, needed a clear yes from the potential vessel in order to take possession of a body.

    But apparently any yes (coerced, obtained by manipulation, etc) does the trick, now; if all that it takes is tricking a potential vessel into saying a generic yes (Sam didn't know what he was saying yes to), then Zachariah, Michael and co were real morons, since they spent a year trying to convince Dean to say yes... they should just have appeared to him in a dream, or put an incantation on him or anything, and ask him some stupid question, like "Dean, do you want pie?" and BAM! YES!
    Yeah, that's bugging me, too. However, I think that The Rapture made pretty clear that Castiel's possession of Jimmy involved a measure of manipulation as well, especially the second possession, to which Jimmy only consented to save his daughter. But he still knew what he was consenting to, which Sam clearly did not. So, that one is not quite kosher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    But well, I think it is indeed a bigger canonical problem that we have been told that every angel has a specific vessel bloodline, which implies that only humans from that very bloodline can actually host that specific angel. There are perfect vessels and lesser vessels for any specific angel, but a lesser vessel will eventually perish, because it cannot sustain an angel for a longer time. That's why Hale's (Hail's? The girl that was with Castiel) vessel started to decay only after a couple of hours, or why Nick, Lucifer's lesser vessel in S5 started to rot, even though he drank massive amounts of blood. So, since Sam is a Lucifer vessel and not a vessel from Ezekiel's bloodline, his body should not be able to host Ezekiel for any extended period of time, if at all.
    It seems in typical Jeremy Carver fashion he has changed the laws of canon and so now an angel can possess the perfect host of a higher powered angel as though it were perfect for them also. Remember in this episode Hale also wanted to use Castiel's body as a permanent vessel because his 'vessel was strong'. Presumably she means the fact it is capable of hosting Castiel who as a former seraph was higher in the angelic chain than she was before he lost his grace.

    So in terms of Ezekiel and Sam it makes sense as Sam is one of the most powerful vessels in existence arguably second only to Dean himself as a Michael vessel.

    Also I've long thought this, but can we now safely assume Jimmy is gone and the body is all Castiel's? I mean if it was still Jimmy's and Castiel was already piggybacking how on earth could he a) give consent for her to use a body which is not even his and b) How could the body cope with two angel entities?

    Yeah, that's bugging me, too. However, I think that The Rapture made pretty clear that Castiel's possession of Jimmy involved a measure of manipulation as well, especially the second possession, to which Jimmy only consented to save his daughter. But he still knew what he was consenting to, which Sam clearly did not. So, that one is not quite kosher.
    Of course the point of view is skewered since we don't know how much a regular run of the mill demon would know about the specifics of angelic possession. But In Swap Meat the demon possessing Nora in her attempts to get Gary to say yes while in Sam's body was very vague about what he was going to be saying yes to. Could that not be seen as a precedent to the idea that one does not necessarily have to know exactly what they are consenting to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    You get extra points for trying to make sense of the angel mythology at this point. Here, have a cookie!
    Gratitude!! *crunches*

    Well, the healing effect on Ezekiel is easy to explain: We know from Frontierland that the energy of a human soul is able to heal a wounded angelic grace. Remember, Castiel used Bobby's soul to heal from the wound Rachel inflicted on him with an angel sword. So, Ezekiel could nurse his own grace by connecting to Sam's soul. However, I am not sure why Sam would heal. In Goodbye Stranger Castiel stated that he cannot heal Sam because the trials changed him on a subatomic level, so I am not sure what Ezekiel can do about that.
    Ah, yes, thanks! I forgot about the soul thing!

    We just have to accept the Sam part, I guess!

    But well, I think it is indeed a bigger canonical problem that we have been told that every angel has a specific vessel bloodline, which implies that only humans from that very bloodline can actually host that specific angel. There are perfect vessels and lesser vessels for any specific angel, but a lesser vessel will eventually perish, because it cannot sustain an angel for a longer time. That's why Hale's (Hail's? The girl that was with Castiel) vessel started to decay only after a couple of hours, or why Nick, Lucifer's lesser vessel in S5 started to rot, even though he drank massive amounts of blood. So, since Sam is a Lucifer vessel and not a vessel from Ezekiel's bloodline, his body should not be able to host Ezekiel for any extended period of time, if at all.
    Not only Sam shouldn't be able to host Ezekiel; Hael shouldn't be able to possess Cas either, since Cas (and Jimmy before him, RIP) are very unlikely to be related to the young girl Hael was possessing in this episode.

    Oh, well...technicalities, I guess!! They can't even rememberthe big stuff from two episodes ago, how can we expect to keep track on such things!

    Yeah, that's bugging me, too. However, I think that The Rapture made pretty clear that Castiel's possession of Jimmy involved a measure of manipulation as well, especially the second possession, to which Jimmy only consented to save his daughter. But he still knew what he was consenting to, which Sam clearly did not. So, that one is not quite kosher.
    I don't think it's the same...I don't think Cas manipulated Jimmy, but rather "courted" him. In the end, he told him explicitly what was expected of him, and the decision rested on Jimmy's shoulder. Also the second time it was Jimmy's decision.... okay, he didn't have much choice, he had to save his daughter....but still the situation was clear.

    Ezekiel/Dean, on the other hand, really tricked Sam into saying yes to fake!Dean's vague propositions.... I repeat, if this is really possible for angels, Michael and Zachariah were idiots!

    Or maybe Carver and co should just stop butchering canon and ruining things retroactively... just a suggestion. Sigh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post

    Also I've long thought this, but can we now safely assume Jimmy is gone and the body is all Castiel's? I mean if it was still Jimmy's and Castiel was already piggybacking how on earth could he a) give consent for her to use a body which is not even his and b) How could the body cope with two angel entities?

    Misha said that Jimmy is long dead, but I hope the issue is addressed openly in the show, given what they'll have Cas do in 9x03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    Misha said that Jimmy is long dead, but I hope the issue is addressed openly in the show, given what they'll have Cas do in 9x03.
    Well as you know I've long considered that to be the case But I remember Galathea saying in the past she thought Jimmy was still there so I was just curious had this most recent development with Hael changed her mind.

    The CW released a press release about the episode

    SUPERNATURAL AND THE ORIGINALS SCARE UP THE CWS MOST WATCHED TUESDAY IN FOUR YEARS
    SUPERNATURAL Has Most Watched and Highest-Rated Premiere in Three Years
    SUPERNATURAL Has Best A18-49 Rating For Any Episode Since 2010
    THE ORIGINALS Gives Tuesdays Some Bite, Growing Time Period Double Digits Versus Last Season

    October 9, 2013 (Burbank, CA) The ninth season premiere of SUPERNATURAL and the time period premiere of THE ORIGINALS combined to give The CW its most watched (2.23 million) Tuesday night in more than four years (since 9/8/09), according to preliminary Live Plus Same Day Nielsen ratings forTuesday, October 8, 2013.

    The ninth season premiere of SUPERNATURAL was the series' most watched (2.53 million) and highest-rated premiere since 2010 in all key demos (1.0/3 in adults 18-34, 1.2/3 in adults 18-49).
    It was SUPERNATURAL's best adults 18-49 rating for any episode since 2010 (10/15/10).

    Versus last season's premiere, SUPERNATURAL was up 37% in total viewers, up 25% in adults 18-34, up 33% in women 18-34 (1.2/4), and up 50% in adults 18-49.

    It was The CW's best performance in the time period (Tuesday 9:00-10:00 pm) in more than two years in adults 18-34, adults 18-49 and women 18-49.
    Moving to its new lead-off slot on Tuesday nights, THE ORIGINALS also had some bite, averaging 1.92 million viewers and a 1.1/4 in women 18-34, a 0.8/3 in adults 18-34, and a 0.9/3 in adults 18-49.

    Compared to last season's average in the time period (Tuesday 8:00-9:00 pm), THE ORIGINALS was up 60% in adults 18-34, up 57% in women 18-34, up 80% in adults 18-49 and up 71% in women 18-49, and by 58% in total viewers.

    Versus the equivalent week last year, THE ORIGINALS improved the time period by 26% in total viewers, by 14% in adults 18-34, by 29% in adults 18-49.

    Last night was The CWs highest rated Tuesday night in two years in adults 18-34 (0.9/3, since 11/8/11), women 18-34 (1.2/4, since 11/29/11), adults 18-49 (1.0/3, since 9/13/11) and women 18-49 (1.2/3, since 9/27/11).

    According to data from Trendrr.tv, SUPERNATURAL was the most tweeted-about show on broadcast television last night.

    Last season, SUPERNATURAL averaged a 38% increase in total viewers when Live + 7 Day delayed viewing was added. In adults 18-34, the numbers were even higher, typically jumping 48% in L+7, and in adults 18-49 it increased 48% in L+7.

    Digital streaming of SUPERNATURAL last season averaged a 29% increase in its total audience per episode.

    This week's episode of THE ORIGINALS will repeat Thursday, 9:00-10:00 pm ET, following an original episode of THE VAMPIRE DIARIES.
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    I did not enjoy the scenes inside of Sam's head. They just felt boring and unnecessary.

    I am also so over Dean & Sam always being saved from the brink of death or being resurrected. That story-line has been done to death on this show. They should both have been dead a long time ago and it seemed like Sam was finally accepting that and he was ready to die but Dean just was incapable of letting him go. It seems like it happens every season - either Sam is dying and Dean is trying to save him or Dean is about to die and Sam refuses to let him die.

    The only thing I really care about is how the fallen angels story-line plays out.

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    I Think I’m Gonna Like It Here by Jeremy Carver, is a solid but controversial opening to the season, which immediately picks up where season eight left off. It deals with the consequences of Sam’s decision to abandon the demon trials, the angels fall and follows Castiel as he adjusts to being human for the first time. One of the decisions made in this episode by Dean has proven to be deeply controversial amongst the fandom and I should warn fans of Dean I view it in a very negative light so you may want to avoid reading this review. That said on to the review itself.

    Sam: "But if, you don't have any idea how I’m supposed to fight. Then am I supposed to be fighting at all?"

    As a major Sam fan I really appreciated that this episode provided us with insight into Sam’s attitude towards death. For me his calm acceptance of his fate showed a maturity and self-awareness that I find both understandable and admirable. As the episode shows on a number of occasions through the words of ‘Bobby’ a manifestation of his sub-conscious, while Sam has his self-esteem issues his acceptance was not simply due to a negative perception of himself. Indeed bearing in mind that ‘Bobby’ is in fact Sam this notion is contradicted multiple times such as when ‘Bobby’ highlights the fact that it was Sam not Dean who rescued the real Bobby from hell, or when it is highlighted that Sam has saved people, he has saved the world and can undoubtedly state he is leaving the world a better place. In light of this while Sam still has guilt for letting Dean down as revealed in Sacrifice and certainly has some self-esteem issues we are shown he is not completely lacking in self-worth or suicidal.

    With that established I think it is safe to say that when Sam says to Death “So nobody else can get hurt because of me” he is not talking from the perspective of someone who considers themselves a screw up by their very nature. Rather he is referring to the potential side effects if he were to go with Death only to be brought back by Dean, a view that is supported by his words and actions throughout the episode. First off, there is the fact that any time where the possibility of Sam being healed before he dies comes up Sam is open to the idea, for instance at the beginning of the episode he appears willing to work with ‘Dean’ only starting to seriously consider the possibility of accepting his impending death after, it is established there is no plan to save him. And again at the end of the episode when the real Dean unlike his counterpart has a plan Sam is willing to accept said plan or at least the general idea of being saved. Secondly, there is the reference to Dean selling his soul when Sam died back in All Hell Breaks Loose Part 2 and how well that worked, which shows the consequences of Dean bringing Sam back namely Dean’s time in hell and the apocalypse are still fresh in his mind. Thirdly, there is the manner in which Sam speaks of his impending death, he speaks of it in terms of questioning “Is it supposed to happen, is he supposed to fight” rather than expressing any desire to die, or speaking of himself as a bad person.

    Back in Death’s Door it was established that in the supernatural verse the norm for those dying while comatose is for them to experience memories of the past and even talk to their sub-conscious in the form of those they once knew with the only thing that is real being their reaper. That in mind I have absolutely no doubt that it was the real Death we saw in Sam’s head and not simply a manifestation of Sam’s sub-conscious. Therefore I was positively delighted and happy for Sam when I heard him receive the validation he has long yearned for through the words of Death. Well played indeed Sam! It is therefore unsurprising that making Sam lose his memory of his encounter with Death is one of the many reasons I am absolutely furious with the decisions Dean made in this episode, something I will discuss in more detail in the next section. I hope for Sam’s sake he gets these memories back some day and take comfort from them.

    Dean: "No its Sam’s call. There is no way in hell he would agree to be possessed by anything!"
    Ezekiel: "He would rather die"


    In this episode Dean found himself in a desperate situation, his brother was dying as a consequence of the demon trials and without the aid of Castiel his usual supernatural ally Dean was forced to make a desperate plea to the general angel population, which led us to the introduction of a new ally, Ezekiel. Throughout the episode I found myself being reminded of Ruby and Metatron, which does not bode well for the angel’s true intentions. First off Ezekiel introduced himself to Dean by saving him from more hostile members of his kind, which is the same as Ruby’s introduction to the brothers back in The Magnificent Seven. Secondly the manner in which he deals with Dean is remarkably similar to the way Ruby dealt with Sam, or Metatron with Castiel, as all three slither their way into the role of ally for the respective character by dangling before them the thing they most want. In the case of Sam it was initially Ruby’s promises of being able to save Dean and then when it was clear that could not happen she promised to teach him the skills he needed to get revenge. In the case of Castiel, Metatron seduced him with promises of being able to fix the damage he wrought in heaven back in Meet the New Boss. Now Ezekiel is following this pattern by promising the thing Dean wanted most at that time namely an attractive seemingly fool-proof way of saving Sam from the brink of death.

    The question that remains unanswered is; will Ezekiel’s promise turn out to be as empty as Ruby’s and Metatron’s? There are certainly several troubling issues which suggest that this solution is not as effective as Dean hopes it will be. First off, since when did angelic possession heal the human host? On several occasions there has been evidence to suggest quite the opposite whether it’s the fact that a mortally wounded Jimmy when possessed by Castiel in The Rapture is said to need Castiel to live from then on, or the fact that Raphael’s vessel was left as an empty shell in Free To Be You And Me. On the other hand we know from Frontierland that angels can gather strength from touching a human soul so possessing Sam can definitely prove to be of benefit to Ezekiel not to mention the fact that as Lucifer’s vessel, Sam’s body is strong enough to hold him indefinitely. Another troubling issue is Ezekiel’s claim that Sam cannot know of his presence or he will be ejected from his body if Sam were to withdraw his consent. Again this goes against what we already know of angelic possession if it is so easy for a human to eject the angel possessing them then why did Jimmy not do so back in season four since The Rapture made it clear he was unhappy after a while of Castiel possessing him? Or why was Sam not able to eject Lucifer when he took control and used his body to beat on Dean back in Swan Song and threatened to cause the apocalypse? On top of that there is the fact that like Ruby, Ezekiel is emotionally manipulating Dean into taking actions against his better judgement and worse still keeping them a secret from his brother. Bearing all this in mind for the moment at least I am very suspicious and wary of Ezekiel not trusting him in the slightest.

    Now on to the most controversial aspect of the episode i.e. Dean’s agreement to manipulate Sam into giving consent and then keeping it a secret by allowing Ezekiel to take his memory of his time in the coma away. For this viewer this has to be one of the most despicable and disgusting actions we have ever seen a character take on this show. What Ezekiel and by association Dean did was a violation of Sam at the deepest level. By tricking Sam into consenting they have robbed the character of his basic autonomy and worse still have left an illusion of control as from now any control Sam has over his actions is only present because Ezekiel allows him to have that control. Worse still the two have collaborated to ensure that Sam is never made aware of just how deeply he has been violated.

    What makes it even more disturbing to me is the fact that Dean’s actions were not truly rooted in love, but rather they were selfishly about meeting Dean’s needs and wishes. Even with the knowledge that Sam was ready to die if needs be and that he would never consent to possession due to past experiences such as having demon blood forced on him, his life subtly dictated by Azazel or being possessed by Lucifer instilling a deep-rooted need for control in Sam, Dean went right ahead and collaborated with Ezekiel. Not only were Dean’s actions a deep violation but they were an ultimate betrayal of his brothers trust. What Dean should have done was ensured that Sam was made fully aware of what he would be consenting to and leave it to Sam to decide where he wanted to go from there. Instead he tricks Sam into consenting and even schemes with Ezekiel to make sure that Sam is not allowed the free will to change his mind later. It is a loathsome action and Dean has now effectively made Sam into a puppet, as mentioned earlier he has ensured that Sam has been left with an illusion of free will, but it is a free will that only applies if Sam’s wishes are in line with Dean’s wishes. I sincerely hope that the writers intend to explore this issue with the seriousness that it deserves and highlight how deplorable Dean’s actions really are, as if at any point Sam thanks Dean for what he did, or worse still, apologises for accepting his death then the show will lose this viewer. I sincerely hope for Sam’s sake that my suspicions about Ezekiel are incorrect as I would hate for Sam’s fears about more people being hurt as a result of his resurrection proving to be founded in the end.

    Castiel: “Yes… Good. I would fly but I have no wings. Not anymore.”

    One element of this episode I enjoyed a lot more than I anticipated was how it explored Castiel’s initial journey as a human. I thought that Carver did a fantastic job of portraying the former angel’s gradual understanding and acceptance of his new situation. At the beginning of the episode we are quite clearly shown that he is in shock and unable to truly take in the consequences of losing his grace through things such as his astonished “It hurts” after his first human experience of pain, his proclamations that he doesn’t eat or drink despite knowing such things are an essential aspect of the human condition and the most obvious his attempt to use his powers on the biker. I’ve seen other fans express discontent with these instances feeling they make Castiel look stupid, but I actually loved them. I thought they along with Castiel’s spaced out demeanour in the early parts of the episode clearly highlighted the shock and confusion the former angel was feeling after going through an event as traumatic as being tricked once again and losing his grace in the process. My favourite Castiel scene of the episode was his final one outside the Laundry room. I thought the combination of him losing his trademark trench coat and suit alongside the drinking of water (something he had refused earlier in the episode) was a powerful symbolism of Castiel leaving behind the life he led as an angel and accepting his newfound humanity. Well done Jeremy Carver it is moments like this when I’m reminded of how powerful and subtle a writer he can be.

    In addition to Castiel’s general journey of acceptance I thought he was given several great moments throughout the course of the episode. My absolute favourite had to be his telephone conversation with Dean for the simple fact we were shown that he actually listened to Dean’s advice rather than assuming he knew better. I am hoping that this positive development is a sign that the writers are going to allow Castiel to not only become more human, but to grow as a person this season finally escaping the rut he has been stuck in since season six. I also really appreciated how badass they made him this episode whether it was him using his experiences of humanity wisely for once to put on a seat belt before causing the car crash, or his determination to keep going despite being human. The fact that he not only refuses to get depressed as a result of losing his powers, but remains determined to fix up the mess he caused shows how much Castiel has developed since Hunteri Heroici where he states the fear that even the sight of the damage he wrought in heaven might lead to suicide. I really hope that the writers continue to keep up this developing of the character throughout the season.

    Other Notes
    • It amused me that while comatose and thus completely cut off from the world around him Sam was able to accurately predict that the world at large would rationalise the angel’s fall as a meteor shower. It’s a subtle reminder of how after large scale events such as the apocalypse the people in the world Sam and Dean live in have become pretty good at burying their heads in the sand.

    • As someone deeply invested in the Dean and Castiel friendship the prayer scene at the beginning of the episode really disappointed and upset me. The way the scene is set up with Dean initially talking about working things out only to state “screw it” within seconds and call on other angels makes his prayer to Castiel sound insincere. It makes it sound as though he was simply trying to manipulate Castiel, to butter him up so he can get what he wants out of him. Not only do I dislike it because of my investment in the Dean and Castiel friendship, but it paints a pretty ugly picture of Dean as a person since it portrays him as a manipulative user.

    • I’ve seen a lot of debate amongst fans as to whether it was Ezekiel or Dean speaking to Sam in the final scene in Sam’s head and I am of the opinion that it was Ezekiel that we saw in those scenes. First off there is the fact that the effect used involved him changing forms rather than ‘Dean’ disappearing only for Ezekiel to appear moments later. Secondly, if one pays close attention to exactly what was said by ‘Dean’ in particular “You gotta let me in man, you gotta let me help”, it fits in perfectly with an angel seeking permission from a vessel. Sam quite literally needs to let Ezekiel in if he is going to help Sam to live. Thirdly, there is nothing in canon that explicitly supports the idea that saying yes to a third person is sufficient consent. Now that is not to say that I don’t think the general sentiment comes from Dean, there are parts of that speech such as the reference to their agreement in the church that Ezekiel could not have known about unless told by Dean hence his need for Dean’s agreement in the preceding hospital scene.

    • It seems that another retcon has been added to the angel mythology this season namely that in addition to an angels ‘true vessel’ and their bloodline the vessel of a more powerful angel will also suffice in holding them indefinitely. This is shown clearly in Ezekiel’s ability to possess Sam for a presumably extended period of time safely and Hael’s desire to possess Castiel. While I am generally not a fan of such retcon’s this one at least does not completely smash previously existing canon to pieces. After all the consent focused on in earlier seasons was that of Lucifer and Michael who are the two most powerful angels in existence thus there were no vessels more powerful than Sam and Dean for them to use as alternatives.

    • On a completely superficial last note I just want to point out that the title credits for this season are pretty amazing! They are definitely the prettiest we’ve had in years in my opinion.

    Overall my thoughts on I Think I’m Gonna Like It Here are rather mixed. While the episode does have its moments of brilliance such as its conclusion to Castiel’s episodic journey or the deep insight we gain into Sam’s mind set. My severe disgust and horror with Dean and Ezekiel’s violation of Sam means my biggest emotional response to the episode is anxiety about where the writers intend to take the storyline from here…
    Last edited by Bittersweettwit; 15-10-13 at 05:10 PM.
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    I understand that it does seem repetitive (also with one of them keeping a secret) but this was only one episode. We shouldnt judge how a season is gonna go based on only one episode.

    I liked the episode a lot and it made me excited for more. Especially when it comes to Cas as a human.

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    The Angel/Host mythology is all over the place. I hated it from the beginning so I guess I am not to bothered if it*is changed. But Sam has had his body molecularly changed so perhaps that makes a difference. While Castiel had this spell placed on him to make him human which could account for the host being strong enough for another angel. I think it is all stupid, I dont care what they do.

    I dont know if I believe that Ezekiel can heal Sam. The scene reminded me of Dean selling his soul in S2. Instead of if Dean rejects the deal, if Sam rejects the angel, then Sam will die immediately. I feel like the angel is the only thing keeping him alive similar to how a demon possession can keep a mortally wounded person alive. Only instead of the demon having control and shoving the human consciousness below, the angel has to hide and let the human have control. So I am hoping the angel is just keeping Sam alive to buy him time to heal on his own. I dont think Sam is really possessed like a normal angel possession. I hoping we are going to get Sam and the angel is going to hide out for fear of being discovered and ejected.

    I agree the deals to save each other storyline is ridiculously played out. I wish the show had went in another direction. But they didnt, so I dont feel there would have been honor in Sam choosing to die or Dean giving up and not letting Ezekiel keep him alive. I definitely believe the final plea of Dean to Sam were Dean's words not Ezekiel's. I havent found the angel's to be the most convincing emotionally when lying while this was one of the more compelling speeches of Dean to Sam.

    I dont feel like this episode stood out to me. It wasnt bad, but it wasnt really something to get excited about. It was good to get Death and a joke about being short on time to be able to buy cronuts. I was happy to see Grace Phipps and really enjoyed her performance as Hale. Bobby as Sam's giving up side should have pleased me more. I was surprised that a side of Sam took complete credit of rescuing Bobby when Dean was the one who orchestrated the escape from Purgatory.

    I hope Cas begins acting more human and natural in episodes to come. The clueless angel as comedy is getting old after he has been around the Winchesters for 5 seasons ( heck he even lived most of one pretending to be married and human).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehlwyen View Post
    I definitely believe the final plea of Dean to Sam were Dean's words not Ezekiel's. I havent found the angel's to be the most convincing emotionally when lying while this was one of the more compelling speeches of Dean to Sam.
    Jensen confirmed it was Ezekiel speaking. It was Ezekiel impersonating Dean.

    I hope Cas begins acting more human and natural in episodes to come. The clueless angel as comedy is getting old after he has been around the Winchesters for 5 seasons ( heck he even lived most of one pretending to be married and human).
    Totally agree. I hate how they are making Cas look/behave like an idiot. The writing (dare I say portrayal, at times? Sorry, Misha. Love ya) for him has been mostly atrocious since season 7. Season 6 character-assassinated him, but at least he was still competent/functional, despite being misguided.

    Also, I was thinking about how everything is so arbitrary.... Carver and co confirmed that Cas doesn't know how to drive, and that is one of the hardships he'll have to overcome in trying to get back to the Winchesters. Why was Hael - who's been on Earth 5 minutes - able to drive, then?

    This is seriously bugging me (not that there aren't worst problems in the show...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehlwyen View Post
    The Angel/Host mythology is all over the place. I hated it from the beginning so I guess I am not to bothered if it*is changed. But Sam has had his body molecularly changed so perhaps that makes a difference. While Castiel had this spell placed on him to make him human which could account for the host being strong enough for another angel. I think it is all stupid, I dont care what they do.
    My take on it is that every angel has a vessel / angel that is ideal to them, but while not as ideal the vessel of a stronger angel is able to hold him indefinitely without exploding. So for example if one were to say Michael as the most powerful angel in existence is a 100 power, Lucifer was 98, Cas and Zachariah as Seraphs were 70 etc. Then that would mean Hael as an average ranking angel say 50 could possess Castiel's level 70 vessel body without issues and Sam and Dean can host pretty much every angel in existence.

    As I mentioned in my review this doesn't even have to be seen as going against canon since season five was all about Lucifer and Michael looking for their vessels. And as the most powerful angels in existence they obviously did not have stronger alternatives to the boys they could use

    I feel like the angel is the only thing keeping him alive similar to how a demon possession can keep a mortally wounded person alive.
    That was actually my thoughts also, but then someone replying to my review on Livejournal pointed out we actually do have history of angels healing up their hosts body. For instance Castiel was shot at multiple times in Lazarus Rising and if he did not heal his host while possessing him then Jimmy should have died in a similar manner to Meg when he vacated the body in The Rapture . So Ezekiel could be healing up Sam's body in a similar manner.

    I was surprised that a side of Sam took complete credit of rescuing Bobby when Dean was the one who orchestrated the escape from Purgatory.
    Well I think Sam's conscious was right to point out it was Sam not Dean who physically rescued Bobby from hell

    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    Jensen confirmed it was Ezekiel speaking. It was Ezekiel impersonating Dean.
    Although I personally thought from the start it was Ezekiel. Jensen actually said he acted out the scene as though it was Ezekiel. But from the way he said it my take is that while that's the way he acted the scene out none of the writers actually said that to him. Of course I hope they keep it as Ezekiel because I find the "There ain't no me" line positively cringeworthy

    Totally agree. I hate how they are making Cas look/behave like an idiot. The writing (dare I say portrayal, at times? Sorry, Misha. Love ya) for him has been mostly atrocious since season 7. Season 6 character-assassinated him, but at least he was still competent/functional, despite being misguided.
    As I mention in my review I didn't really mind Castiel's behaviour in this episode. To me for the first half of the episode Castiel was clearly shocked and trying to take in what happened. And if you consider the words of Anna in Heaven and Hell Castiel is supposed to be feeling emotions more intensely than ever and considering the fact he has just went through a traumatic and life changing experience... It makes sense to me it's initial shock. Especially if you compare it to his more quick thinking behaviour in the second half of the episode

    Also, I was thinking about how everything is so arbitrary.... Carver and co confirmed that Cas doesn't know how to drive, and that is one of the hardships he'll have to overcome in trying to get back to the Winchesters. Why was Hael - who's been on Earth 5 minutes - able to drive, then?

    This is seriously bugging me (not that there aren't worst problems in the show...)
    Kinda relevant






    Poor Misha trying to be all deep thinking in his acting choices only to be followed by... Not so deep thinking actors

    Edit: (the actual report on what Jensen said about the end scene.

    Lynn: In the scene where Dean is trying to convince Sam not to go with Death, and says that memorable line, “There ain’t no me if there ain’t no you,” alot of us weren’t sure if that was actually Dean — if Ezekiel sent Dean in to convince Sam and then switched places with him to possess Sam — or if that was Ezekiel looking like Dean. When you were doing that scene, how were you playing it?

    Jensen: I was playing it as Ezekiel.

    Lynn: (gasping rather dramatically) Noooooo, that’s not the answer I want!

    Jensen: (probably rolling his eyes a little at Lynn. Which is totally understandable) Sorry!

    He went on to explain that Ezekiel was, however, expressing Dean’s genuine feelings about Sam, but putting it in words that Dean himself probably would never say out loud.

    Lynn: *looks less traumatized*

    In other words, the line was the truth, but we all know that Dean’s not very good at putting his feelings out there, which even Lynn had to admit was true. Jensen said similar things have happened in other scenes between Dean and Cas and between Dean and Sam.
    Source: http://fangasmthebook.wordpress.com/...t-toronto-con/
    Last edited by Bittersweettwit; 15-10-13 at 06:15 PM.
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