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Thread: Buffy 9.25 "The Core, Part V" SPOILER Discussion Thread

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointMan View Post
    Maybe it's like Harry Potter in that the simpler spells can be done with a wave and a command but the bigger, more complicated ones require a point of focus in order to channel all that power. Or maybe Jeanty just thought it looked cool.
    I thought that Willow didn't have any magic until the seed exploded. This is why she needed the wand to get them out of there. When the seed exploded and magic came back, they were already out and she didn't need it anymore.

    Also, the first thought I had with the two last pages was that the girl who turned into a vampire looked like Willow a lot. She obviously knows about vampires (hence the 'you turned me?' comment) so I don't know... Hmm.

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    Ha, yes, chronologically the seed had not given magic back when they started trying to get out, good point.

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    BtVS 9.25 bullet points and analysis



    * The artwork is atrocious. It’s the worst artwork I ever remember from Georges Jeanty.


    * Slaypire Simone just beat Buffy and yet somehow a powerless Willow and Xander threaten to kill Vampire Simone.


    * Maybe Simone made a deal with Maloker that Maloker would get to kill Buffy?


    * It seems Slaypire Simone stabbed Buffy below the shoulder. Buffy’s immediately recovering from that isn’t as impressive as her immediately recovering from the gut wound she received in “Chosen” (7.22). Also, Willow made a makeshift tourniquet for Buffy out of Buffy’s coat.


    * Maloker knows what Slayer blood is and seems to know its power.

    This seems extremely odd unless Simone told it about Slayer blood. Maloker would have been created before Slayers existed.


    * Maloker ate The Council but D’Hoffyrn is still alive.


    * With magic back, Illyria could have gotten her powers back from Severin (or whatever power). So, she’s possibly still alive.


    * Buffy’s suddenly a lot stronger than Slaypire Simone and then survives a massive explosion that obliterates the Deeper Well tree.

    Essentially, with one hand she outmatches Slaypire Simone’s two hands in terms of strength and then stakes Slaypire Simone with the Scythe.

    Buffy doesn’t even have burn marks on her.

    What does this mean? Is Buffy a SuperBuffy now?


    * Andrew Wells has a penthouse San Francisco apartment.


    * Dawn being made from Buffy’s blood still doesn’t make full sense.

    The blood should mean Dawn would have Buffy’s DNA and yet Dawn doesn’t look like Hank, Joyce, or Buffy. So, essentially, Buffy’s blood simply provided something like human DNA.


    * Buffy obviously wants to be with Spike. She’s touching his chest again, etc. Yet Spike is perhaps actually acting offended that Buffy thanks him?

    Spike’s more affectionate with Dawn than he is with Buffy. And seems happier to be around Dawn than he is with Buffy. Does this make any sense? Spike kisses Morgan and yet later turns her down, then begs to have sex with either Faith or Giles’ great aunts, settles for sex with Harmony and comes back and perhaps seems possibly annoyed with Buffy.

    And what from IDW is canon? Does Spike even care that Illyria may be dead? If the stuff from IDW is canon, Spike should be shedding tears over Illyria’s demise. If canon, does Spike even know that Drusilla at least for a time was no longer in Mosiac?


    * WHAT?! Buffy instantly forgives Xander simply because his betrayal ultimately resulted in the Seed being back which ultimately resulted in Dawn being back?

    I have the sick feeling that Buffy’s going to forgive Angel for BtVS S8 merely because ultimately that resulted in Giles being saved from his soul having been tied to Eyghon.

    And why would Buffy tell Xander to forgive himself for betraying her yet again?


    * The Vampr book being empty and Willow saying, “something feels different” when doing the spell to ‘cure’ Dawn means that the rules for magic have changed.

    I’m not sure how much I want to speculate about the ‘New Normal’ for new vampire sires.

    This new vampire seems resistant to sunlight and is able to turn into a bat. Well, the Gem of Amarra was a magical object and magic is what allowed Dracula to turn into a bat. So, this new vampire now simply has magical powers vampires before her didn’t have.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post

    * It seems Slaypire Simone stabbed Buffy below the shoulder. Buffy’s immediately recovering from that isn’t as impressive as her immediately recovering from the gut wound she received in “Chosen” (7.22).


    Glad I'm not the only one whose mind kept returning to that. All the questions of "how will Buffy recover from a shoulder wound?!"... I just kept thinking "Same way she magically will-power recovered from a gut wound in Chosen..." People, it's just there to amp momentary drama not to be dealt with logically.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    * WHAT?! Buffy instantly forgives Xander simply because his betrayal ultimately resulted in the Seed being back which ultimately resulted in Dawn being back?
    While, both within story and without (aka meta), I have no problem with Buffy's insta-forgiveness of Xander based on their long history, the fact his 'betrayal' never actually cost anyone anything, and the fact that she screwed up pretty massively herself last year (plus it spares us needless --you know this will inevitably blow-over-- melodrama), her expressed logic for it is... odd.

    Forgiveness based on history and humility -- great! But her expressed 'rationale', if taken remotely seriously, would have the ludicrous effect of her needing to thank Simone and Severin for their dumb@ss plan and decision to involve Xander. Seriously, Buffster, go with the history and humility reasoning, it makes a hell of a lot more sense.
    Last edited by shipperx; 11-09-13 at 11:11 PM.
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    I'm really annoyed that Illyria (allegedly??) died without a Joss send-off, considering the mediocre writing for this entire season. It seems to me, from news way back when, that her death was plotted out in the beginning because Joss wanted to write her.

    I'd been looking forward to his writing her character again and I've been disappointed with how Chambliss wrote her. Just... sigh.

    Sucks. Universal suckage for the title, frankly.

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    So apparently it's still unclear if Willow can do magic without magical objects. Maybe that's why the book was blank...symbolizing that with the new Seed comes new rules that they'll have to stumble through to learn about. As for the girl looking like Willow...please don't give the writers ideas.

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    See what I meant about the brief caesura befure DorothyFan lost it about Willow's magic and began acting line any part of this issue was bad news regarding Willow and magic?

    Mike, Buffy isn't SuperBuffy. She is just a Determinator and as Strong as She Needs to Be. Why you drive yourself batty trying to act like the entire mythology has jumped with the invocation of every trope, I have no idea. There is no Buffy Technical Manual that is going to have definite answers for these things.

    Buffy can forgive Xander because Buffy doesn't despise him as you do, by the way. She can forgive him because she has been through the fire with him and because they love each other. And she is right that, whether by fate or good luck, his betrayal is actually why Severin was there and therefore the only reason Dawn survived.

    Good catch on zompire dusting. So we just have two vampire populations.

    EDIT: shipper, the only fair and reasonable interpretation of Buffy's forgiveness is that it does obviously come from the history and emotion -- which, as for real people, doesn't need to be spelled out in conversation. That it also had some practical logic behind it is just ancillary; that is the thing Xander probably needed to be told by someone else so that if he ever came to it it wouldn't just sound like rationalization. It is factually true.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 11-09-13 at 07:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmie View Post
    I'm really annoyed that Illyria (allegedly??) died without a Joss send-off, considering the mediocre writing for this entire season. It seems to me, from news way back when, that her death was plotted out in the beginning because Joss wanted to write her.

    I'd been looking forward to his writing her character again and I've been disappointed with how Chambliss wrote her. Just... sigh.

    Sucks. Universal suckage for the title, frankly.

    It makes me sad to see Illyria go as well. I really liked her, but like king pointed out, this shows how far she has grown in her humanity. She sacrificed herself to bring back magic and to save Don. She knew she was going to die, but chose to go along with the plan anyways.
    Last edited by illyriafan; 11-09-13 at 07:43 PM.

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    Well.

    OK, I guess a few points:

    1. No time reset, which I had forgotten about worrying about until now, but at least it didn't happen, so, that's good.

    2. I like the blank Vampyr book as a metaphor, to a degree, because a) the mythology has reset, and thus the contents of the book no longer matter, and b) *Giles* has reset, and thus Giles' gift to Buffy of the book no longer matters.

    3. I guess the major lesson of Buffy's this season is that she failed to rein in the excesses of the evil parts of her slayer army, like Simone. Which...well, on some level that is what her mistakes in season eight were about, I guess. I think that good writing could have tied this all together -- Buffy's mistakes with the slayer army are represented by Simone => Buffy did the spacefrak and had to smash the Seed due to her mistakes with the slayer army indirectly => Xander sides with Simone because of Buffy's spacefrak & seed smashing. Buffy defeating Simone is resolving the issues Xander was mad at her about. Maybe. I don't even really mind that season eight has a distorted chain of responsibility and cause and effect -- that Buffy's arguable mistakes for the slayer army come down thematically later on -- but jeez, Simone-the-Vampire is the most obviously straightforwardly killable threat possible. Simone the slayer represented a real moral dilemma. All Buffy had to do was wait around for Simone to make herself a vampire so that she could resolve that dilemma. Golly.

    4. Dawn's alive, so, yay I guess?

    Anyway yeah, sadly this comic has lost me, probably for good. I do think that Willow did actually have an arc, which is cool; and it wasn't great, but it was at least recognizably a story. But no one else really did, so. Uh.

    Midway through the season, I thought that for its flaws the Buffy comic was still better than A&F. At the end, I think I'm going to reverse on that. I don't like A&F, and thought that it failed in many crucial respects. But it was recognizably a story, and only one arc ("Family Reunion") was genuinely terrible. BtVS season nine actually wasn't terrible all the way through, but the ending just petered out and there's nothing left to show for it.
    Last edited by Local Maximum; 11-09-13 at 08:16 PM.

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    So, what happens to Koah? Did he ever find out who imprisoned himk in his times?

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    Quote Originally Posted by illyriafan View Post
    So, what happens to Koah? Did he ever find out who imprisoned himk in his times?
    No, he did not.

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    Can someone describe what Koh looks like? Did he survive?
    Last edited by illyriafan; 11-09-13 at 10:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shipperx View Post
    I've been wondering that too. WTH?

    In fact that's the only thing I've wondered about. Other than that I'm bored into snoozeville.
    I just got my copy of the issue.Will post my thoughts later but after reading the issue.I'm pretty sure Georges was referring to the Vampyr book being blank and Buffy and Willow's reaction .

    Right up until the last page, of Issue 25, you're going to be asking, 'OK, so what is that?'… I can only tell you that the last shot is of Buffy and Willow and they have a very big dilemma.

    That panel is the last shot of Buffy and Willow in the issue and the last two pages with the new form of vampire is related to that.That's the big dilemma.

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    I think the changes to the vampire mythology side are potentially really interesting, particularly/mainly with Giles coming back into the fold. But not much else feels like it went anywhere since the beginning of the season except magic is back and Spike wants to stop wandering. That the only notable things that happened did so in the minis is really damning of what season 9 is offering the verse. I really have to join those wondering what happened with Buffy this season. I don't even really see the slayer army mistake as being explored/resolved through Simone. I mean is Buffy going to go around checking there are no rogue slayers next season or is it just going to link through to whatever Faith/Kennedy end up doing which, again, means the story is following someone else.

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    That was the most unsatisfying finale and the season of BtVS ever. Really, Simone's death was just stupid (as well as Maloker's).

    As for the whole season, it didn’t have interesting story arcs and what’s more important any character development. A lot of plot lines were just left dangling and their purpose is vague (Heinrich the mysterious neighbor anyone?) Instead of developing core characters (or at least giving them some screen time) the pages of the comic were spent on:

    - Dowling. What was his role in the story exactly? He was a potential love interest for Buffy, was starting to get development but then was just dropped.

    - Koh. Again, why was he ever needed in the story? The plot with his revenge was also dropped, and, frankly, if they needed supernatural character to help Buffy in fights why couldn’t Spike do it? Only because they wanted him to move on? Ok, but why waste pages on another new bland character?

    - Billy the Perfect Slayer. I don’t even want to start ranting about him.

    Maybe if the writing were better it all wouldn’t look so bad but it sadly was really flat. And I thought that Season 8 was bad. Now I can appreciate it at least.

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    I'll post a seasonal analysis later, and am wondering if the new vampire girl is supposed to be Vi?

    But for Buffy, on a personal level it looks like the writers gave her Peter Parker Syndrome. They can't be successful financially or in any major relationship for too long before angst ruins it to connect to the audience.

    She was a passenger in the season's mythology too, carried by Willow (mostly in other books), and Illyria and Severin in the last two arcs.

    Buffy became a chess peice plot device. She goes here, goes there, says this, dusts a monster. Emotional beats have almost been non-existent for her. I have to assume they are there but the writing hasn't carried them through. They shouldn't have to spoon-feed us this stuff, but can anyone honestly say when has Buffy said anything like: " I feel..., I wonder..." Or "I like..." I guess they wanted to show her redfining what Slayerdom means to her but it was either ham-fisted in (Billy) or so vague it seems like a loose end (rejecting Kennedy's company).

    Angel & Faith I have felt the emotional beats and even if both books were transitional in tone, A & F carried it through, you know what the arc was for Angel and Faith, I could feel for Nadira who was an OC! Buffy's OCs are just forgotten about!

    Illyria...I have no words- or rather, no kind words. I don't want to be rude so I'll come back later when I'm less angry.

    Where was the pay-off for Spike's emotional journey?

    So Dawn was just the last arc damsel, huh? No use for a myth-arc for her beyond S5 even when portals have gone out of whack?

    So Xander's justified anger is moot now because he sort of made one slip up and made more problems, none of which he fixed, and most of which Buffy didn't solve either?

    OK, the "convenient magical item nearby" should be over now, and I guess making cannon fodder out of the would-be vamps is over, but what purpose did zomps serve besides killing time and starting Severin's batteries?
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 12-09-13 at 01:12 AM.

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  23. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by illyriafan View Post
    Can someone describe what Koah looks like? Did he survive?

    Eldre Koh has red/orange skin with tribal looking marks on his face, hair is in what appears to be dreadlocks, red eyes, muscular build and tends to wear leather and armour. And yeah, he survived.

    I thought this issue was ok, not great. Will post more thoughts when I'm not on my phone.

    The magic staff was kind of an ass-pull. I wish the story had focused on it a little more in previous issues and drawn more attention to it. As is, it seems like a McGuffin pulled out of nowhere to save the scoobies. A little bit of establishing would have gone a long way. I wonder if the scoobies will keep the staff to use again or if it will be discarded like so many other McGuffins?

    Why did they even bother saving D'Hoffryn and Koh? Would it really have been terrible of the scoobies to just kinda leave those two to die? I mean, if the Master was protecting the Seed like in season 8, would they have taken him to safety too?

    Is nobody guarding the Seed and the Deeper Well? Can't remember who suggested it, but I liked the idea of Maloker sticking around as guardian.

    Simone seemed to fall for so many dumb bad-guy tropes.

    Pretty sad about Illyria. I don't like that an AtS character died in BtVS. How would it be if Xander or Willow crossed over into Angel's title and died there? Kinda sad that we didn't see any interaction with Illyria and Spike, Angel, Gunn or Connor. I kinda feel like Illyria was wasted interacting only with characters she had no history or connection with. I wanted to see Willow and Giles look at the face of the girl they chose not to save too.

    Severin didn't get much explanation as to what the syphon was or where his powers came from.

    I guess maybe we'll find out about Koh's captor next season?

    Now we've got three types of vamps: original flavor, zompires and now daywalkers. Turning into bats is pretty cheesy though. I'm glad they kept zomps, I'm one of the few fans that liked them. This daywalker girl was sired by a zomp, so it looks like all new sirings result in the day walkers. Regular vamps and zomps are now endangered I guess.

    Now that Dawn is back, should we add her to the massive list of people who have been resurected?

    I found the Xander stuff to be incredibly lame. Will elaborate later.
    Last edited by Vampire in Rug; 11-09-13 at 10:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAF View Post
    I just got my copy of the issue.Will post my thoughts later but after reading the issue.I'm pretty sure Georges was referring to the Vampyr book being blank and Buffy and Willow's reaction .

    Right up until the last page, of Issue 25, you're going to be asking, 'OK, so what is that?'… I can only tell you that the last shot is of Buffy and Willow and they have a very big dilemma.

    That panel is the last shot of Buffy and Willow in the issue and the last two pages with the new form of vampire is related to that.That's the big dilemma.
    Let's see how Dark Horse tries to spin the criticism on not only the last issue but also all of Buffy as compared to how the Angel comic was critiqued. It's clear to me now that Angel had the superior storyline and writing. Say what you will about the plotline but at least they had consistency in the Angel comic. There was nothing consistent about Buffy this season. I stand by my earlier conclusion that Buffy has been completely missing this season. That party she hosted in the first issue is the metaphor for the entire season...a complete wipeout.

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    I'm pretty sad about Illyria too. I would have liked to seen her interact with spike as well. And, she was the only one who knew about Koh's imprisonment. So, we will never know who imprison him.
    So, from what I am gathering, Spike did not shed a tear when hearing about her death? That seems very odd. Considering the fact that they bonded and after the fall, and and hunted. You would think he would at least show something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    shipper, the only fair and reasonable interpretation of Buffy's forgiveness is that it does obviously come from the history and emotion -- which, as for real people, doesn't need to be spelled out in conversation. That it also had some practical logic behind it is just ancillary; that is the thing Xander probably needed to be told by someone else so that if he ever came to it it wouldn't just sound like rationalization.
    Eh. It didn't actually bother me any. It had seemed pretty clear last issue that Buffy had no lingering Xander issues. The only reason I took any note of it at all was that it was amusing to me that she had arrived at a rationale where she would basically have had to have thanked the villains for their stupid plan if they hadn't died in the process.
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