View Poll Results: What should the minimum wage be (per hour)?

Voters
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  • no minimum wage

    2 22.22%
  • $6

    0 0%
  • $7

    1 11.11%
  • $8

    1 11.11%
  • $9

    1 11.11%
  • $10

    1 11.11%
  • $11

    1 11.11%
  • $12

    0 0%
  • $13

    0 0%
  • $14

    0 0%
  • $15

    2 22.22%
  • $ more than 15

    0 0%
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Thread: What should the minimum wage be?

  1. #21
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
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    There has yet to be a business founded for the primary purpose of assuring anyone a living wage (whatever that is, I have never met anyone who would make a pass at quantifying it, seems mostly to be a euphemism for "more than they make"). It just isn't what a business if for. Realize that any business starts as its founder/founders having a goal by which they will make money, earn their own living -- everything that follows, be it types of corporate legal structures, for the purpose of soliciting investment or limiting liability; hiring an extra hand or two or ten thousand and a board of directors because there is more work that needs to be done than the founder/founders can do themselves; all of it, all serves that one master, that the people starting the business did it to provide their *own* livelihood, not anyone else's, at least not as anything to other than an incidental byproduct.

    Even occasional rises in the minimum wage can have collateral effects. For instance, Susie starts her job at MacDowell's when the applicable MW is 7.25, works there for three years, runs shifts as an assistant and makes $11.25. New law raises MW to $12.00. Susie now makes $12.00. Bob is hired the next day and makes $12.00. Not only is Susie out the entire value of her seniority, but maybe hours get cut or more will be asked during the hours she does work, because the business still has to make money, that is its primary function.

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  2. #22
    ninja scientist Ehlwyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    There has yet to be a business founded for the primary purpose of assuring anyone a living wage (whatever that is, I have never met anyone who would make a pass at quantifying it, seems mostly to be a euphemism for "more than they make").
    Rather than surveying random people on the street, there is google and wikipedia. There seem to be plenty of sites about it online. I never looked up a definition before. I was just assuming living wage was loosely a percentage of the poverty level like so many federal services determine low income eligibility upon.

    Cool, I even found a living wage calculator. Lots of interesting data here! ...Jeez! A living wage is well below the amount that would make one ineligible to file bankruptcy.

    It just isn't what a business if for. Realize that any business starts as its founder/founders having a goal by which they will make money, earn their own living -- everything that follows, be it types of corporate legal structures, for the purpose of soliciting investment or limiting liability; hiring an extra hand or two or ten thousand and a board of directors because there is more work that needs to be done than the founder/founders can do themselves; all of it, all serves that one master, that the people starting the business did it to provide their *own* livelihood, not anyone else's, at least not as anything to other than an incidental byproduct.
    The goal of life isn't to make money, it is to make a better life. Businesses are a means to that end. A business can effectuate a better life by many other ways than just making money. Every person has a different definition of their own better life.

    There is a great divide between the motivation and operation of a private business versus a public business company. Lumping all businesses under a single business theory doesn't work for me.

    It's a shame that you have never worked for company that had any concern about the welfare of you or your coworkers. I have and know others who run such small businesses. It makes the working place a much better environment. Being miserable for 8 hours a day isn't worth it.

    There is a disconnect in large businesses. When you are a CEO in another state, what does it matter what the working environment is in the store, as long as the people in your immediate office are all being well paid?



    Even occasional rises in the minimum wage can have collateral effects. For instance, Susie starts her job at MacDowell's when the applicable MW is 7.25, works there for three years, runs shifts as an assistant and makes $11.25. New law raises MW to $12.00. Susie now makes $12.00. Bob is hired the next day and makes $12.00. Not only is Susie out the entire value of her seniority, but maybe hours get cut or more will be asked during the hours she does work, because the business still has to make money, that is its primary function.
    Your example makes an assumption that there is a very narrow profit margin for a company. It also makes the assumption that a business can only make money by cutting hourly wages.

    Honestly, a good company would raise the Susie's wage accordingly above minimum wage because they value her experience and continued employment.

    I use a similar example to disagree with drastic increases of minimum wage because a good business has to struggle with raising its wages back to an amount above minimum wage. However, you also throw in that she would lose her seniority or work hours which are some of the really dehumanizing tricks that companies use. Even without a minimum wage hike, MacDowell's is just as likely to fire Suzie at her $11.25 rate so they can hire a new person to work at $7.25. Or worse, make her reapply for the job at the intro $7 rate. It's cruel.

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