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Thread: Discussing the Hiroshima

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    Moderator Sosa lola's Avatar
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    Default Discussing the Hiroshima

    Discussion brought over from the Angel & Faith # 24 Discussion Thread.(Spoilers) at the Buffy comics section.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorotea View Post
    You really under appreciate the amount of ambiguity they attach to nuclear bombings of Japan here in US. Like seriously , really under appreciate.When my son was in 6th grade , I think , they had a class discussion they had 'chosen champions' of condemning that event - vs majorly accepted 'historical truth' of it being the 'greater good' choice at the time. I do remember being totally stumped at the time - as he came back from school seriously arguing with me that it was controversial but probably 'lesser evil'. I am not joking. And in my observation Gage is somewhat of a straight-laced 'politically correct' , somewhat on the conservative side - if it is possible to be 'somewhat conservative' fellow. Look at his GI Joe comics if you want to get the idea. So, him putting the Hiroshima on the list - coming from that purely 'American experience' perspective was meant to be gray area and 'keeper of balance' vs 'evil psychopath'. But yes, to a European it sounds pretty awful. (I can also point you out to the 'Cold War' style stand off Whistler was proposing in sharing half of the Earth with Eyghon.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    Re: Hiroshima. Since my childhood I was taught that it was one of the biggest crimes against humanity. I didn't know about a different POV across the Atlantics.

    I still think it was a crime - but maybe it's a result of my upbringing.
    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    As for the historical event itself, can we agree that no cross-debate on the subject? Everybody says their peace but if we want to actually debate it, it goes to Boiler Room? On the event itself, as reluctant as I ever am to embrace utilitarian arguments, I can defend that bombing on the basis that it probably meant that the Pacific War ended not only in fewer American lives lost, but probably fewer Japanese lives as well. The inevitable alternative to the bombings were a ground invasion of the Japanese main on a scale greater than D-Day, and there would have been no surrender by the Japanese until Tokyo had fallen as well. The US warned Japan with leaflet drops prior to both bombings that explicitly warned of the nature of the threat, the conditions under which it could be averted, and urged evacuation of the 35 potential target cities. Demonstrating an insurmountable advantage in strength forced a surrender that saved lives in the high hundreds of thousands if not millions on both sides.
    Quote Originally Posted by zianna View Post
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both war crimes.
    Even Americans admit that (many of them, at least)

    The Japan was ready to surrender, Japan was already losing in the Pacific War.

    The drop of the atomic bombs was an act of the Cold War, in order for the Americans to show their strength against the Soviet Union. I don't live in the States or in Russia or any of the ex soviet countries, and that was what I was taught in school and university in the UK.
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    Graveyard Patrol Rihannon's Avatar
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    My grandpa was in the Navy during WWII. I grew up hearing my grandma's half hearted arguments of the "lesser evil" sort (knowing that she never hated the Japanese even if my grandpa probably did), against my mother's heated declarations about how Japan was about to surrender anyway and no possible reason can ever justify what probably was the most horrible crime ever committed.

    And, to say the truth... someone may say there had been worse ones, but I'm having a hard time thinking of one that could meet the standards of horror reached by what happened there.

    So, I was shocked by the mention in A&F, because to me, this is a subject that has to be addressed with the highest respect. I decided to let it go because it was Whistler's line, and this kind of thoughts are understandable from the character's perspective. I like to think it was meant to be a manifest that would solidify the readers' opinions on where Whistler's morals and motivations are grounded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rihannon View Post
    And, to say the truth... someone may say there had been worse ones, but I'm having a hard time thinking of one that could meet the standards of horror reached by what happened there.
    IMO, you can look in the same war. I think it's difficult to argue that the atomic bomb was worse than the Holocaust, the Nazi invasion of Europe and Russia or the Japanese invasion of China, Korea, etc.

    Heck, I'd argue that the atomic bomb wasn't as horrifying as even the Blitzkreig or the US's internment of the Japanese if you look at intent or necessity.

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