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Thread: 3.09 "The Rains of Castamere" episode discussion thread

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    Default 3.09 "The Rains of Castamere" episode discussion thread

    Oh man, GRRM and this show sure like to tear our hearts out! Ever since I read somewhere that the title of episode 3.09 would be "The Rains of Castamere", I knew that this episode would feature the Red Wedding and, as a consequence, I have been dreading this episode for weeks now. When I first read ASOS, I did not expect this to happen at all and I was genuinely shocked and upset for a long time after reading it. So being prepared for the Red Wedding may have helped me (and maybe other book readers) a little bit but it was still so gruesome and devastating to see it all play out on screen. It was particularly sad because we saw quite a few instances throughout the episode that showed Robb in a good place. He sorta made up with his mother by asking for her advice. He was visibly happy with Talisa and excited about becoming a father. Talisa wanting to name the unborn child Eddard if it was a son and her talking about Robb teaching little Ned to ride a horse broke my heart, knewing what was coming later on.

    Robb was very graceful and dignified when he apologised to the Frey girls for breaking his oath. Of course evil and petty old Walder Frey was not going to be appeased by this apology or by Edmure agreeing to marry a Frey girl. Speaking of Edmure: the look on his face when he realised that his wife was actually a pretty girl was prizeless! One of the few light moments in an otherwise very dark and sad episode. And I have to say, I'm glad that I don't have to get married in Westeros, that whole bedding tradition is icky and humiliating.

    It was eerie that there was not a single Lannister in this episode but their presence and influence could still be felt so clearly during the Red Wedding. I guess now we know who Tywin was writing his letters to and Roose Bolton showed his true colours, namely that he values money above everything else. I found it a bit strange that Cat was the only one who found it weird and unfitting that they would play THE Lannister song (The Rains of Castamere) at a wedding attended by Lannister enemies (or so the Starks and Tullys thought). Robb at least should have been suspicious instantly. I liked seeing Cat being smart and putting two and two together and then being brave and not giving up without a fight, capturing Walder Frey's wife and threatening to kill her and then actually going through with it after Roose Bolton had killed Robb ("The Lannisters send their regards"). Seeing Talisa being repeatedly stabbed in the stomach and then Robb and Cat's deaths, it was all so gruesome. I just hope that the GoT creators will (book 3 spoiler)
    Spoiler:
    do without the whole sewing Grey Wind's head on Robb's body because I really do not need to see that. It's horrible enough when I picture it in my head.
    I liked that there was no music during the end credits, it made the Red Wedding even more horrifying.

    Arya witnessing Grey Wind's death was very sad. I think they should have explained though why Grey Wind was locked up in the first place, why he wasn't at Robb's side. It would have shown even more clearly how carefully the Red Wedding was planned by the Freys, Boltons and Lannisters. My big hope is that at least the Blackfish made it out alive. Lucky for him, he left the hall just as things went south. I'm also curious if the GoT creators will keep Edmure alive.

    The other big storyline this week (for me at least) was Jon's. I'm glad that Jon did not have to kill another innocent man but that Ygritte spared him from doing that. It's good that he showed his true colours and made it clear to the non-book reading audience that his allegiance still lies with the Night's Watch. I'm just a bit sad that it had to be at the expense of his relationship with Ygritte because I love these two together and now he has betrayed her. She looked devastated when she saw him riding away on that horse he stole. Hopefully, Jon will be just in time to warn the Night's Watch about the wildlings' imminent arrival.

    The Sam and Gilly scenes continue to drag and bore me to tears. At least Bran's scenes were interesting and gripping this week. It was cool to finally see more of Bran's warg powers and even Rickon had a few lines. It's sad that the brothers split up but Bran is right, the land beyond the Wall is not a safe place for little Rickon. Still, seeing them hug each other and say goodbye was very upsetting. I also teared up a bit when Osha said that Bran means the world to her. It was also rather sad that Jon, Bran and Rickon were so close together, yet still so far apart. At least Bran "saw" Jon while he was inside the direwolf so he knows at least for the moment that Jon is alright.

    The Dany storyline was very action-heavy this week and for me that's not always that interesting. They covered a necessary step of her journey (the sacking of Yunkai) though. And poor Jorah, you could see his heart breaking into little pieces when Dany asked after Daario following the battle.

    So on the whole, this was one of the most upsetting episodes of the show to date and thus not one I'm gonna rewatch anytime soon. Damn you, GRRM, for being a cruel bastard and killing off all those Starks!

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    Someone on the TWOP thread called Jorah "Ser Jorah of House Friendzone", which, heh. Gotta admit, I find it a little "eh" that Dany seems charmed by Daario. He's no Drogo, girl.

    Poor Arya is turning into a very bleak little psycho, but I still love her. Oddly enough is that... I'm really starting to like the Hound. I mean, he's despicable in most respects, but I'm not sure there's a more honest man in Westeros than Sandor Clegane. And I can't help but think he probably had to cut his way in to retrieve Arya, and it was downright noble of him to insist on not letting her see what he knew had happened inside. One thing I couldn't help but laugh at is that Sandor probably has no idea that Arya was dead serious about knowing a man who makes Sandor look like nothing when it comes to (pace Tyrion) his facility with murder. Honestly, she should just show the coin to the next Braavosi she sees and say the words, because... what the hell, right?

    I was unfortunately spoiled for the Red Wedding by having read the entry for the title song on a Wiki of Ice and Fire, which is my fault, but it didn't make it any less horrible. In fact, I don't know if I have ever needed any TV show characters to die more than Walder Frey and Roose Bolton since "Lost" went off the air. Walder Frey... you're a pissant! Nobody cares about your anger! You're flat out not important enough to get this over the top mafia movie revenge scene! Ugh.

    Robb screwed up by breaking his oath, sure, but he screwed up more by having the arrogance to think he could or even should try to charm Frey into helping him lay siege to Casterly Rock in the first place. It was his undoing. Also, a good take away here is... there's a reason for Kingsguards and Queensguards, man. There's a reason for secret service. Just saying, if you are having dinner in a hall where a whole crapload of guys with crossbows are just sort of crouching behind the balcony all night, that's as much on you as it is on your treacherous host. And we probably oughtn't bring our pregnant Queen to politically tenuous social events that her mere existence has brought bout the need for. Next time, dude, just go fortify your borders and protect your independence, if you think support for a crusade against the Lannisters is waning.

    It was just terribly gutwrenching. And I loved Catelyn's realization when the doors closed and the Rains of Castamere began playing (also wondering why Robb didn't react to this song, since there are two songs in the whole country) all the way up through her desperate hostage attempt. Didn't mind her following through on her threat at all, frankly, because... what the hell, right? My only real complaint is that this fierce mama bear that's a Tully and a Stark didn't even make a game throw of that dagger at Walder, or try to rush him.

    Poor Bran doesn't even know he's now Lord of Winterfell and King in the North, either. Not that there's much of a North to be King in anymore, with the Karstarks and who knows how many others having basically broken fealty to the Starks, others having fallen to the Ironborn, and who knows how many more slaughtered at the Twins. What North will there be left to take revenge?

    Sansa is the one that I really feel for here. She (very boldly) once voiced the idea that maybe Robb would make her a gift of Joffrey's head. That simpering little shit will all but float down the corridors of the Red Keep in giddiness for a chance to tell Sansa that her mother and brother have been killed (also makes me wonder if she was ever told about Winterfell burning and the presumed deaths of Bran and Rickon? With Arya already probably presumed lost, does she think she's the last?).

    Having not started Book 3, I'm also very curious as to whether or not Edmure was killed, too -- but I assume he's probably a hostage to prevent any reprisal from Riverrun. Don't suppose there's any chance that the crazy lady in the Eyrie will care that her brother is kidnapped and her sister murdered. Which, oh yes, another reminder to thank Catelyn for spontaneously kidnapping Tyrion and really starting about 90% of all this rolling downhill out of control.

    Oh, I was loving Jon Snow in his scenes and loved him killing Orell and rubbing it in his face... but he blew it hard by riding off without Ygritte. Did he not notice that, yes, she killed the guy but then stood with him, bow drawn against her own mates, ready to protect him? And he left her there with Paul Bunyon? Dude, really? YOU KNOW NOTHING JON SNOW.

    Poor Hodor. I can't help but feel bad that he really has no say in getting marched up to zombie land. Of course, if they asked him he would say "hodor", but still.

    I sure hope that in some future books, we see Nymeria again. Having Grey Wind and Lady dead is already bad enough, but now Summer and Shaggy Dog are separated and Ghost is... never really around. The direwolves are nice metaphorical spirit animals. Grey Wind is dead, Lady is dead (and Sansa is kind of broken and disillusioned), Nymeria is lost, which suits Arya to a tee. Ghost is a perpetual outsider, etc.

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    The direwolves are nice metaphorical spirit animals. Grey Wind is dead, Lady is dead (and Sansa is kind of broken and disillusioned), Nymeria is lost, which suits Arya to a tee. Ghost is a perpetual outsider, etc.
    They really are. It struck me in the book. First Sansa's wolf is killed and she's rather promptly sectioned off from her family). Arya's wolf is set loose alone in the wild... as Arya has been. In the books, it was a VERY bad sign when bookJeyne (turned into show Talisa) was fearful of Robb's wolf and so he kept his wolf caged. Ghost continually disappears and wanders alone above the wall (much as Jon does). Shaggy Dog was always the most feral of the wolves and Rickon was always mostly unattended, suffering the loss of all of the adults of his family at the most young age and growingup without much direction. Rickon at least has Osha as a protector, but that kid seems destined to grow up as more Wildling than Northman.

    The only one of the wolves that's a constant companion is Summer. Bran is the most close to and most bound to his wolf (and that has its benefits).
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    Although I haven't read the book, I'm aware of the major plot-points so I knew what was going to happen in the episode. But, it was still hard to watch.

    Book 3 huge spoiler (for upcoming events):

    Spoiler:
    I am looking forward to Joffrey being poisoned though. Although it looks like that won't happen until next season.

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    Wow, I clicked that thinking it was a parallel book spoiler...

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    Sorry about that, but at first I thought that Season 3 was going to cover all of Book 3 but I don't think it can since there's only the one episode left. I didn't realize that Book 3 was going to carry over into Season 4.

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    Season Three is only covering the first half of Book III. All it took was hearing that and most everyone guessed that the Red Wedding would be the climax of this season. Not sure what all will make it into the finale and what will have to wait to next season. I wonder whether the epilogue will be moved up. I still sort of think it might be.

    Next season is the second half of Book III. (though I'm guessing that they will also be adding in some Book IV and even Book V stuff (for Theon. Basically they've been in Book V stuff for Theon all of THIS season so it'll probably continue in Book V territory for him).

    Of course when they get to Book IV things are really in for a mix-up because Book IV and Book V take place simultaneously just with different sets of characters.
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    Dany was great again this week as well. Although I'm kinda torn when it comes to her storyline. On the one hand, I think her endeavour to free every slave she comes across is noble and makes her a great heroine. But on the other hand, I really wanted her to take those ships the Yunkai'i offered her so she can finally sail to Westeros. I loved how she casually fed her dragons to intimidate the ambassador from Yunkai, that was awesome! The dragons are not that cuddly anymore so it was kinda cute when she petted Drogon at the end of that scene and he purred like a cat. I guess Dany's desire to free all slaves must be rather awkward for Ser Jorah, given that he has once traded slaves.

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    First things first, Daario Naharis is terrible. He's so cringey, how is Dany taken in by him? Of course I'm a Jorah fan and I know he's far too old for her, but he truly loves her and he's still a handsome man . . . (his poor sad face when Dany asks after Daario)

    Apart from Daario, this was a stellar epsisode. The wedding was a great way of getting rid of so many threats, and I am only happy that Robb and the terrible Talissa are gone. I'm sorry that Catelyn had to go too, but she did free Jaime and that was so damn stupid. Sorry the wolf had to die.

    Am hopeful that now Jon has ridden off, that Ygritte isn't long for this world.

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    Agree about Daario, I was never a particular fan of the character. I think perhaps it is a realistic sign both of Daenerys' age but also the lack of freedom in her life previously to be taken by this as a light fling/romance?? (if I'm remembering it at all well )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Agree about Daario, I was never a particular fan of the character. I think perhaps it is a realistic sign both of Daenerys' age but also the lack of freedom in her life previously to be taken by this as a light fling/romance?? (if I'm remembering it at all well )
    She was married to Khal Drogo, and by the end it felt like she truly loved him. It seems like a massive step down to fall for this idiot. But I do agree, she hasn't had much fun in her life, so maybe she's ready for another relationship with this cringe-merchant. It also upsets me that Jorah is right there, and he loves her so much.

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