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Thread: Marvel's Agents Of SHIELD

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    Lost Season 5 would be Whatever, Happened Happened. Fitz now knows the machine was finished by Deke's father. If it's WHH then Flashback-Fitz shouldn't be wondering who would carry on after they are gone; as it seems they spent their lives making the plans before they could actually create it.

    Flashback-Elena was tired of Robin babbling about Flint; like they didn't know who she was talking about. Again if it's WHH then she should already know and this plan Old Robin told May would have failed but it seems like this is the first time Robin's ever put it all together.

    The only way it could work is if "the aftermath" is not related to the future at all. Something bad must have happened that they evacuated a town for Daisy to quake, knowing the possible "afterrmath" of destroying the world; but willing to chance it because the threat near the town was worse.
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 21-01-18 at 12:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanSlayer View Post
    Lost Season 5 would be Whatever, Happened Happened. Fitz now knows the machine was finished by Deke's father. If it's WHH then Flashback-Fitz shouldn't be wondering who would carry on after they are gone; as it seems they spent their lives making the plans before they could actually create it.

    Flashback-Elena was tired of Robin babbling about Flint; like they didn't know who she was talking about. Again if it's WHH then she should already know and this plan Old Robin told May would have failed but it seems like this is the first time Robin's ever put it all together.

    The only way it could work is if "the aftermath" is not related to the future at all. Something bad must have happened that they evacuated a town for Daisy to quake, knowing the possible "afterrmath" of destroying the world; but willing to chance it because the threat near the town was worse.
    Flashback Elena knew who Flint was. She shouted: "There is no Flint! Seriously, she needs to stop talking about people who won't be born for another 50 years." How would she know Flint was someone from the future (and even his approximate age when they meet him in the future) if she hadn't remembered who he was?

    Flashback Fitz and May clearly had been to the future and knew what would happen. Fitz shouted that they were in a "time loop" and that they have tried to save the world already, and failed. "We couldn't change it, Voss couldn't change it, even Daisy couldn't change it. She saw the aftermath, and she still destroyed the world." He's referring to Voss, the guy who would try to kill/has tried to kill Daisy in this episode in order to prevent her from going back to 2017/18 and destroying the world. And flashback Fitz also clearly implied that Daisy had been to the future, seen the ruined Earth, came back to prevent it and still destroyed it.

    Their problem is exactly that, at the moment, it seems that "Whatever happened, happened" is the rule. That's why Flashback Fitz was so frustrated. He was yelling that they can't change the time and can't break from the time loop. But for the storyline to be resolved somehow (and not be totally depressing, as well as in contradiction to the rest of the MCU), they will have to find a way to somehow 'change time' - the exact same thing Fitz is saying can't be done.

    ETA: And here's another diagram, by Suzana on SpoilerTV. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images...22bf545a5b.png
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Flashback Elena knew who Flint was. She shouted: "There is no Flint! Seriously, she needs to stop talking about people who won't be born for another 50 years." How would she know Flint was someone from the future (and even his approximate age when they meet him in the future) if she hadn't remembered who he was?

    Flashback Fitz and May clearly had been to the future and knew what would happen. Fitz shouted that they were in a "time loop" and that they have tried to save the world already, and failed. "We couldn't change it, Voss couldn't change it, even Daisy couldn't change it. She saw the aftermath, and she still destroyed the world." He's referring to Voss, the guy who would try to kill/has tried to kill Daisy in this episode in order to prevent her from going back to 2017/18 and destroying the world. And flashback Fitz also clearly implied that Daisy had been to the future, seen the ruined Earth, came back to prevent it and still destroyed it.

    Their problem is exactly that, at the moment, it seems that "Whatever happened, happened" is the rule. That's why Flashback Fitz was so frustrated. He was yelling that they can't change the time and can't break from the time loop. But for the storyline to be resolved somehow (and not be totally depressing, as well as in contradiction to the rest of the MCU), they will have to find a way to somehow 'change time' - the exact same thing Fitz is saying can't be done.

    ETA: And here's another diagram, by Suzana on SpoilerTV. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images...22bf545a5b.png
    OK you have me with Voss but the "Who will carry on after us?" bit still doesn't make sense because Voss told Fitz about Deke's father. You would think if Fitz could leave weapons in place for around 70 years then the team could have somehow left themselves a note about how the first plan failed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    OK the VFX guy says this is an alternate timeline after all. And as pointed out, why would May, Simmons etc be flying with Robin to the Lighthouse when last we saw Robin was already there with Hunter? https://www.reddit.com/r/shield/comments/7rvxs4/vfx_supervisor_of_aos_says_flashback_is_what/

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanSlayer View Post
    OK you have me with Voss but the "Who will carry on after us?" bit still doesn't make sense because Voss told Fitz about Deke's father. You would think if Fitz could leave weapons in place for around 70 years then the team could have somehow left themselves a note about how the first plan failed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    OK the VFX guy says this is an alternate timeline after all. And as pointed out, why would May, Simmons etc be flying with Robin to the Lighthouse when last we saw Robin was already there with Hunter? https://www.reddit.com/r/shield/comm...hback_is_what/
    What he says doesn't make any sense. Not buying it, as it contradicts what's actually on screen.

    Sorry, I don't think Mark Kolpack is a credible source of info on what is going on. He's not a writer. He doesn't even need to understand what's going on to do his job. That's if he even paid attention to/understood what he was asked in the first place.

    And that's not the first time he's talked to fans on Twitter about the storylines and seemed clueless. During season 4, he was arguing with some fans and said Fitz' father wasn' abusive, it was just how parent/child relationships were back in the old days.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  5. #105
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    Episode 8 lost a bit of impetus for me. I guess several timelines running at once and then looping, just slowed the whole thing down. The time-loops just felt like exposition, which of course we need, but it was like wading through treacle and not dynamic enough in storytelling terms. I did enjoy Robin coming to see May as 'mom', I think that had real emotional impact, the only thing that did in the whole episode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Episode 8 lost a bit of impetus for me. I guess several timelines running at once and then looping, just slowed the whole thing down. The time-loops just felt like exposition, which of course we need, but it was like wading through treacle and not dynamic enough in storytelling terms. I did enjoy Robin coming to see May as 'mom', I think that had real emotional impact, the only thing that did in the whole episode.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "exposition"?
    There were just two timelines in this episode, the 2091 one and the flashforwardbacks/flashbackforwards in 2018-2022 (they are obviously flashbacks for Robin, but flashforwards for the team).
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by "exposition"?
    There were just two timelines in this episode, the 2091 one and the flashforwardbacks/flashbackforwards in 2018-2022 (they are obviously flashbacks for Robin, but flashforwards for the team).
    The time-lines and flashbacks were all to explain what's happened, not what is happening, and to me that's exposition. It's like Giles in the library explaining the history of demons, when I just want to see Buffy go out and kill the demon (and learn something in the process of course)

    I couldn't honestly tell you how many timelines there were, or how May and Fitz seem seem to remember they've lived through previous timelines . . . but I am easily confused

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    The time-lines and flashbacks were all to explain what's happened, not what is happening, and to me that's exposition. It's like Giles in the library explaining the history of demons, when I just want to see Buffy go out and kill the demon (and learn something in the process of course)

    I couldn't honestly tell you how many timelines there were, or how May and Fitz seem seem to remember they've lived through previous timelines . . . but I am easily confused
    I'm not sure what you mean by that - May and Fitz in 2022? They remember it because they came back to their own time, from 2091.

    The "flashbacks" are actually there to show what will happen to May, Fitz, Simmons and the rest of them, after they go back to their own time (2017/2018). At least under the assumption that the loop is fixed and that you can't change time.
    For Robin, it's something that has already happened to her, it's already happened to Earth and the rest of the people, but not to May, Fitz, Elena etc.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    A good bit of action though with Sinara as strong as she is I'm not 100% convinced she's dead.

    Another good early callback with the Kree blood resurrecting Tess; does this mean she'll go insane unless she can see an outline of a Kree city like S2 Coulson?

    Episode 12 is going to be the 100th overall so it's all probably foreshadowing somehow. Was pretty sure Deke wasn't going to do it as they'd already had him betray the team before.

    As Fitz and Simmons say they believe it's all WHH which matches with the "loop" comment made by Flashback Fitz. Though how they break it and whether there was ever a timeline where they weren't taken from the diner is still unclear. How Robin's plan helps them break or create the loop and the "who carries on after us" still doesn't jibe.

    We now seem to know they evacuate a town and Daisy goes to stop an alien invasion which seems to have led to her destroying the world.

    Could the other Seer be Franklin Hall? Somehow aware of all the plans SHIELD made/will make while still in the gravity ooze? ETA: I just read a really cool theory it's a tortured Elena from after she went to kill the Kree in the flashback, kept alive with Kree blood. Though if it were true he should have gone after Elena once he knew Daisy was there in the first place.

    We have an episode next week on Feb 2 but are on break after until March 2nd; the 100th will air March 9th. Not really sure if they end the space arc next week or carry it on. It would seem strange to set up a new arc on the 100th but stranger things have happened.

    "I've been worse, but I've also been better."
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 27-01-18 at 03:30 AM.

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  13. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanSlayer View Post
    A good bit of action though with Sinara as strong as she is I'm not 100% convinced she's dead.

    Another good early callback with the Kree blood resurrecting Tess; does this mean she'll go insane unless she can see an outline of a Kree city like S2 Coulson?

    Episode 12 is going to be the 100th overall so it's all probably foreshadowing somehow. Was pretty sure Deke wasn't going to do it as they'd already had him betray the team before.

    As Fitz and Simmons say they believe it's all WHH which matches with the "loop" comment made by Flashback Fitz. Though how they break it and whether there was ever a timeline where they weren't taken from the diner is still unclear. How Robin's plan helps them break or create the loop and the "who carries on after us" still doesn't jibe.

    We now seem to know they evacuate a town and Daisy goes to stop an alien invasion which seems to have led to her destroying the world.

    Could the other Seer be Franklin Hall? Somehow aware of all the plans SHIELD made/will make while still in the gravity ooze? ETA: I just read a really cool theory it's a tortured Elena from after she went to kill the Kree in the flashback, kept alive with Kree blood. Though if it were true he should have gone after Elena once he knew Daisy was there in the first place.

    We have an episode next week on Feb 2 but are on break after until March 2nd; the 100th will air March 9th. Not really sure if they end the space arc next week or carry it on. It would seem strange to set up a new arc on the 100th but stranger things have happened.

    "I've been worse, but I've also been better."
    So, the next week will be mid-season finale, similar to seasons 1, 2 and 3. This fits with what the writers/producers have said, that season 5 has two arcs or 'pods' rather than 3 as the last year.

    I think that the next episode they will manage to go back to the past, so this will be the end of the first 'pod', which takes place in the future on a Kree-ruled station and the surface of the destroyed Earth with Kasius as the main villain, and then the next 'pod' - which will encompass the rest of season 5 - will be about going back and trying to change the past and break the time loop. Sinara is already dead (I don't see how she could not be, unless the Kree can also resurrect the Kree rather than just humans), and Kasius will probably be killed or otherwise removed as a threat in the mid-season finale, and then maybe the next threat - and probably the Big Bad of the season - will be revealed in a cliffhanger ending. It will certainly have something to do with the "Seer" Kasius is talking about.

    I don't know if Franklin Hall will return, it depends on whether they were able to get Ian Hart to return, although Gravitonium is obviously crucial for the story. I hope they at least get David Conrad to come back as Ian Quinn - both because that's a loose end since season 1 (he was one of the show's first villains, worked for Garrett and almost killed Daisy, and had Gravitonium in his possession the last time we saw him, but as far as we know, he is still at large), and to explain how Gravitonium ended up where it ended up.

    We're also yet to see a rather publicized announced guest star whose role everyone has been hush-hush about.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    So, the next week will be mid-season finale, similar to seasons 1, 2 and 3. This fits with what the writers/producers have said, that season 5 has two arcs or 'pods' rather than 3 as the last year.

    I think that the next episode they will manage to go back to the past, so this will be the end of the first 'pod', which takes place in the future on a Kree-ruled station and the surface of the destroyed Earth with Kasius as the main villain, and then the next 'pod' - which will encompass the rest of season 5 - will be about going back and trying to change the past and break the time loop. Sinara is already dead (I don't see how she could not be, unless the Kree can also resurrect the Kree rather than just humans), and Kasius will probably be killed or otherwise removed as a threat in the mid-season finale, and then maybe the next threat - and probably the Big Bad of the season - will be revealed in a cliffhanger ending. It will certainly have something to do with the "Seer" Kasius is talking about.

    I don't know if Franklin Hall will return, it depends on whether they were able to get Ian Hart to return, although Gravitonium is obviously crucial for the story. I hope they at least get David Conrad to come back as Ian Quinn - both because that's a loose end since season 1 (he was one of the show's first villains, worked for Garrett and almost killed Daisy, and had Gravitonium in his possession the last time we saw him, but as far as we know, he is still at large), and to explain how Gravitonium ended up where it ended up.

    We're also yet to see a rather publicized announced guest star whose role everyone has been hush-hush about.
    We can add Felix Blake, VJ Nadeer and Ivanov Head to the loose end column. There's also evil Lady General from the end of the Fitz episode that should be after kid Robin and Lance. As far as the guest star I've seen speculation she's
    Spoiler:
    Deke's mother and Fitzsimmons daughter
    .

    There's also the question of who built the Lighthouse in the first place so maybe we go to the past to break the loop?

    ETA: Dove Cameron's character revealed, not who I thought but the setup was there: http://ew.com/tv/2018/01/28/agents-s...cameron-photo/
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 29-01-18 at 08:46 PM.

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    Sunnydale High Student Nebula1400's Avatar
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    Frankly, I only care about what happened with VJ Nadeer. Maybe he comes back as a woman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula1400 View Post
    Frankly, I only care about what happened with VJ Nadeer. Maybe he comes back as a woman.
    Could you elaborate on that...?
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Could you elaborate on that...?
    Merely a passing thought about the possibilities. His was the one loose end I've wanted to see followed up more than any other. There is a cousin of Black Bolt called "The Unspoken," because he was banished from Atilan who could transform himself into whatever he wished. The last we saw VJ Nadeer, he was changing over and over again, so we don't know what the end result was. What if VJ became a shapeshifter? He could appear as male or female or a coffee table. He may not be The Unspoken, but he could appear to be anyone or anything he wants. That could lead to all sorts of twisty storytelling.

    Plus, Marvel has had a number of gender-fluid characters like Courier, Katy and Timothy Bashir, and Loki.
    Last edited by Nebula1400; 02-02-18 at 08:20 PM.

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    A decent midseason ender. It was Elena who subscribes to WHH. Lost never had them meet themselves but they were involved with key events that did/will impact everything they went through before they time travelled. Sort of a wimpy cliffhanger since we just had Future Elena say they all make it home; and even if Flint can rebuild land they can't exactly create and atmosphere or food.

    So it is a Kree invasion Daisy stops and apparently destroys everything afterwards. Potential Inhumans tie I suppose but they probably wrote this arc well before that reception went down.

    Knew they'd probably give Simmons revenge.

    Coulson's dying because of the deal he made with The Rider most likely. ETA: Now some are saying he got infected with odium from fighting the Inhuman trainer but I didn't see it myself.
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 03-02-18 at 03:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanSlayer View Post
    A decent midseason ender. It was Elena who subscribes to WHH. Lost never had them meet themselves but they were involved with key events that did/will impact everything they went through before they time travelled. Sort of a wimpy cliffhanger since we just had Future Elena say they all make it home; and even if Flint can rebuild land they can't exactly create and atmosphere or food.

    So it is a Kree invasion Daisy stops and apparently destroys everything afterwards. Potential Inhumans tie I suppose but they probably wrote this arc well before that reception went down.

    Knew they'd probably give Simmons revenge.

    Coulson's dying because of the deal he made with The Rider most likely. ETA: Now some are saying he got infected with odium from fighting the Inhuman trainer but I didn't see it myself.
    Flint shouldn't be able to literally rebuild anything, if we mean the Earth literally, since Earth is not just rocks. I'm hoping that was just Tess joking.

    I thought Coulson was dying because the Kree blood as a means of resurrection has an expiration date, after all. That would tie it all up (resurrection was brought up a lot in these episodes) and also answer the question "why don't humans just solve the problem of death by constantly reviving the dead with Kree blood" (well, there's also the issue of people going crazy from it, but Coulson and one other guy with wiped memories and maybe Tess seemed OK... I think people would still do it to revive themselves and their loved ones if they could, even with the risks).
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Flint shouldn't be able to literally rebuild anything, if we mean the Earth literally, since Earth is not just rocks. I'm hoping that was just Tess joking.

    I thought Coulson was dying because the Kree blood as a means of resurrection has an expiration date, after all. That would tie it all up (resurrection was brought up a lot in these episodes) and also answer the question "why don't humans just solve the problem of death by constantly reviving the dead with Kree blood" (well, there's also the issue of people going crazy from it, but Coulson and one other guy with wiped memories and maybe Tess seemed OK... I think people would still do it to revive themselves and their loved ones if they could, even with the risks).
    There's also the matter of The Father coming back in the future. Okay he didn't like Kasius but he still considers The Lighthouse his little pet project. Or what about the slaver that bought Abbey? If Flint is the most powerful Inhuman they have, plus a handful of SHIELD and Kree weapons, they wouldn't last long.

    Tess' sanity is probably alright since they never drove Future Elena mad. Daisy was healed from the gun shots with Kree blood too; though Inhumans are apparently spared the insanity even if they haven't transformed yet. I'd imagine Coulson would be willing to die to save the world from the Kree; though if they pull a Supernatural and say his soul belongs to The Rider after the end of S4 I could see the team wanting to save him regardless.

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    I know y’all are way ahead so I am not reading this thread but I have watched the first 6 episodes and am hooked. FitzSimmons is more adorable than my little sister. And I don’t think I’ve ever said that about anyone.
    Hello cutie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fool for Buffy View Post
    I know y’all are way ahead so I am not reading this thread but I have watched the first 6 episodes and am hooked. FitzSimmons is more adorable than my little sister. And I don’t think I’ve ever said that about anyone.
    I'd love to know your thoughts as you go along. I hope you haven't been spoiled!
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Glad you're watching FFB! I'm a huge FitzSimmons fan! ♥ them! I really like this show. To be fair wasn't thrilled with season 4 Hive or last season's Framework story lines. Hopefully things will improve when the team get's back.

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