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Thread: Marvel's Agents Of SHIELD

  1. #181
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    I get what you're saying TTB but I will stand by Fitz and Simmons no matter what, and I'm well aware what Fitz did to Daisy was immoral (so was he) but it also saved everyone. After that they just did what they had to do by escaping and then delaying the use of the machine. (Which also saved everyone) The whole invincible thing is insane but I think they've now accepted that may not be true. I can concede that I also dislike the way the writers have written some characters lately, but for me that's absolutely been Daisy. She used to be one of my favorites and now probably doesn't crack the top 5. FitzSimmons on the other hand are still heroes in my book, and the fact that Fitz is clearly more flawed than we originally thought makes him an ever better character, while the fact that Simmons continues to stand by him makes their relationship (the best aspect of the show) even better.
    Hello cutie

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    It never occurred to me that characters should remain the same throughout a series. Their experiences can't ever cause them to change?

  3. #183
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    Why the hell is Elena hating on Daisy now? "We didn’t choose you" - well, you didn't choose Coulson, either. He's made plenty of stupid mistakes, but I guess being a middle aged man rather than a young woman means people won't blatantly disrespect you or ignore you. Yelling at her that she should have stayed in the future?! Well, gee, if you have a problem with that, YoYo, take it up with Coulson! Now Daisy is at fault for his decisions, too?! Then yelling at her that it's somehow her fault that aliens killed people (what bull) and yelling at her for trying to save Coulson - whe Daisy is the one person she's never told about her "you should let Coulson die" prophecy/warning? And for that matter, why has she stayed silent about it for so long?
    Had Daisy been there and not defying Coulson's orders trying to save him, (with the support of May whom does know about Future Elena), the casualties of the aliens would have been much lower. Elena sees Daisy as a hypocrite for being angry Elena defied her orders; but she and May are both defying Coulson's-whom Daisy and Elena both still consider the true leader of the team. Elena killed Ruby to save the world but May and now Daisy are barreling towards saving him despite knowing Future Elena says that will kill the world and not just a Hydra agent.
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 07-05-18 at 04:30 PM.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula1400 View Post
    It never occurred to me that characters should remain the same throughout a series. Their experiences can't ever cause them to change?
    The characters on AoS have changed a lot as a result of their experiences, and this has been one of the best aspects of the show, so I'm unsure what you're trying to say here.

    It's, however, very different when characters change from episode to episode in ways that don't make sense. That's character inconsistency. Is Fitz mentally ill and suffering from dissociative disorder or not? Did he become more like Framework Fitz, or is he still the o!d Fitz? What is going on with him? The writing has been all over the place since 5.14

    Why is Elena hating on Daisy now - they used to be friendly in season 4 - and taking out her frustrations on her in this episode by yelling at her for the decision that Coulson made against Daisy's will (to knock her out and take her to the present) and for Daisy's decision to save Coulson - without bothering to even tell her about what she heard from her future self? But she has no problem with May making the exact same decision, standing by it after Elena told her about her future self and what she said, and insisting she fell into line? Elena has always been portrayed as a rebel who bucks authority, but now apparently the only authority she is able to go against is Daisy, but not May or Coulson?

    It's almost like, in the attempt to create conflict, they're writing Elena to react in ways that don't reflect her established personality as much as they reflect the fandom prejudices - where Daisy, as a young woman who is "emotional", cannot be seen as a credible authority figure or decision maker (and is also annoying, because she gets in your face, gets screentime almost as much as Coulson, and isn't the girlfriend of a popular male character) - unlike Coulson, the middle aged man / father figure who makes emotional decisions all the time, but that's OK, or May, the stoic mother figure.

    (As a rule in the AoS fandom:
    - Fury takes extreme measures to save/resurrect Coulson: cool.
    - Coulson takes extreme measures to save Daisy: Daisy is annoying! Why is everything about her!
    - May and Daisy take extreme measures to save Coulson: Daisy is so annoying!
    - Fitz takes extreme measures to save Simmons: Awww, how romantic! He is the best!)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DanSlayer View Post
    Had Daisy been there and not defying Coulson's orders trying to save him, (with the support of May whom does know about Future Elena), the casualties of the aliens would have been much lower. Elena sees Daisy as a hypocrite for being angry Elena defied her orders; but she and May are both defying Coulson's-whom Daisy and Elena both still consider the true leader of the team. Elena killed Ruby to save the world but May and now Daisy are barreling towards saving him despite knowing Future Elena says that will kill the world and not just a Hydra agent.
    So why isn't she up in May's face then? Coulson appointed Daisy the leader in his absence, she said so herself - so if she really believed that much in his authority, shouldn't she have been accepting that decision as well? She also seems to have a problem with Coulson's decision to bring Daisy into the present, but is yelling at Daisy over it, even though that doesn't make sense. Is Coulson even in charge now? May insisted in 5.19 that he wasn't and that Daisy was to make decisions in the field now. She also sent her in the mission, told Elena to get in line, and broke up the fight between her and Daisy, and Elena so far is neither yelling at her nor trying to fight her.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  5. #185
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    So why isn't she up in May's face then? Coulson appointed Daisy the leader in his absence, she said so herself - so if she really believed that much in his authority, shouldn't she have been accepting that decision as well? She also seems to have a problem with Coulson's decision to bring Daisy into the present, but is yelling at Daisy over it, even though that doesn't make sense. Is Coulson even in charge now? May insisted in 5.19 that he wasn't and that Daisy was to make decisions in the field now. She also sent her in the mission, told Elena to get in line, and broke up the fight between her and Daisy, and Elena so far is neither yelling at her nor trying to fight her.
    I'm not saying she's totally rational though I think she sees Daisy as the root of the problem as she's the only one they know is apparently involved directly with the destruction of the world. Coulson wasn't there when Elena snapped at Daisy being brought to the present. Had he, she may have snapped at him too. The most direct way for her to break the loop would be to either kill him herself or commit suicide, or even take out Fitz or Simmons but she's not going to straight up betray her friends. She and Fitzsimmons are open to taking bigger risks because if it can't really be changed, they'll survive no matter what. If it can be changed, maybe one of those risks might actually save the world in their minds.

    May at the very least reached out to Elena sympathetically, despite standing by killing Ruby she does have some kind of trauma from it. I suspect Elena has a slightly different view of Daisy then most do. The newest members to SHIELD and the only Inhumans on the team. Daisy started before her but also abandoned the team for a number of months. Would have heard about Daisy's parents almost killing the team, was accused of being brainwashed by Hive when it actually was Daisy, Daisy left Mack in the Framework, and got herself captured in the future. Elena might very well see Daisy as the reckless one.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanSlayer View Post
    I'm not saying she's totally rational though I think she sees Daisy as the root of the problem as she's the only one they know is apparently involved directly with the destruction of the world. Coulson wasn't there when Elena snapped at Daisy being brought to the present. Had he, she may have snapped at him too. The most direct way for her to break the loop would be to either kill him herself or commit suicide, or even take out Fitz or Simmons but she's not going to straight up betray her friends. She and Fitzsimmons are open to taking bigger risks because if it can't really be changed, they'll survive no matter what. If it can be changed, maybe one of those risks might actually save the world in their minds.

    May at the very least reached out to Elena sympathetically, despite standing by killing Ruby she does have some kind of trauma from it. I suspect Elena has a slightly different view of Daisy then most do. The newest members to SHIELD and the only Inhumans on the team. Daisy started before her but also abandoned the team for a number of months. Would have heard about Daisy's parents almost killing the team, was accused of being brainwashed by Hive when it actually was Daisy, Daisy left Mack in the Framework, and got herself captured in the future. Elena might very well see Daisy as the reckless one.
    Elena certainly didn't have a problem with Daisy leaving the team at the end of season 3, since she was the one who was in touch with her and getting her meds in season 4 (when she still wasn't a part of the team). Later they seemed pretty close in the Slingshot series.
    She couldn't have had a problem then with Daisy for having been brainwashed by Hive, since she already knew about it - and it would be incredibly crappy anyway to blame someone for being mind-controlled, or for what their parents did.

    Daisy left Mack in the Framework because Mack was refusing to go, and she respected his decision. Elena was then arguing that she should have forced him and knocked him out, "broke his legs" etc. if needed (pretty much what Coulson did to Daisy in 5.10) - and then she went in on her own and immediately found herself tied up in Hydra's prison/experimentation facility. That was pretty reckless, because she was desperate to save Mack and bring him back. If anyone should understand Daisy recklessly going in to save Simmons, or being desperate to save Coulson, it's Elena, since that's exactly how she acts when it comes to Mack.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  7. #187
    Scooby Gang DanSlayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Elena certainly didn't have a problem with Daisy leaving the team at the end of season 3, since she was the one who was in touch with her and getting her meds in season 4 (when she still wasn't a part of the team). Later they seemed pretty close in the Slingshot series.
    She couldn't have had a problem then with Daisy for having been brainwashed by Hive, since she already knew about it - and it would be incredibly crappy anyway to blame someone for being mind-controlled, or for what their parents did.

    Daisy left Mack in the Framework because Mack was refusing to go, and she respected his decision. Elena was then arguing that she should have forced him and knocked him out, "broke his legs" etc. if needed (pretty much what Coulson did to Daisy in 5.10) - and then she went in on her own and immediately found herself tied up in Hydra's prison/experimentation facility. That was pretty reckless, because she was desperate to save Mack and bring him back. If anyone should understand Daisy recklessly going in to save Simmons, or being desperate to save Coulson, it's Elena, since that's exactly how she acts when it comes to Mack.
    As friends sure, but if you look into reasons why she could doubt Daisy's ability to lead, she has a flawed track record. (As does Coulson but he was already established by the time Elena joined). It's not her fault her parents were unstable or that Hive wanted to control her but it does show she's susceptible to being somehow related or used as a weapon. I don't think Elena believes for a second that Daisy is a bad person or would willingly destroy the world, but she has been manipulated before. Now Elena might see her attachment to her pseudo-father as another liability. In her head, Mack isn't possibly responsible for killing most of humanity and was overly attached to a "video game" so I doubt she sees many parallels.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh side note: We should know sometime this week if we get Season 6 or not. Upfronts are next week with ABC's on the 15th. The networks typically renew/cancel/order new shows the week beforehand so they can hype up as much as possible and deflect attention from the failures.

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    Scooby Gang DanSlayer's Avatar
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    OK, to get this out of the way:

    ABC renewed or cancelled literally every other show they have except AoS apparently it's a big fight right now. Rumor is it might even end up on the Disney streamer but that won't launch until late 2019 at best! Hope for the best! (Inhumans is also dead and if AoS does go on I worry slightly about them being forced to work in those plot threads but I digress).

    Good setup throughout the season with the Oduim and Future Elena's warning although Main Protagonist Plot Armour tells me Coulson will be fine I do want to see how it happens and who if anyone else bites it in his place.

    Nice little callbacks, the first meeting of Talbot, Hartley etc. Brutal way for Creel to go out and I wasn't even that attached to him.

    I did enjoy Deke and Daisy's faces during the Philinda kiss. Gallant as ever hot lips.

    Bumbling Deke during the sword fight actually worked.

    This should resolve before the Big Snap I cant see that being the ending note of the show. And if we get a S6 before Avengers 4 technically this and possibly Cloak & Dagger would be our only in-between points for the films. Netflix shows are still technically before Iw and Ant-Man & Wasp, Captain Marvel are both confirmed to both be priors as well.

  9. #189
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    I know I'm lagging behind, but just watched ep 20 and loved it. Talbot is great, so much fun. Really enjoyed Daisy and YoYo going at it physically while the men Fitz and Mack kept their sparring verbal, a nice change of gender role which I appreciated. I must say I'm pretty much on Mack and Daisy's side, Ruby was a lunatic, but she didn't deserve that and it was more about revenge than anything I think.

    How in gods name is Daisy still in love with Lincoln?? What the hell! Poor Deke is such a sweetie, he'd have laughed his ass off if he'd ever actually met Lincoln. The 20 lemons on the bed was such a nice visual.

    I'm sorry Hale was killed, I really liked her character. I wonder if Thanos and the situation on Earth will have further impact on the team?

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  11. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I know I'm lagging behind, but just watched ep 20 and loved it. Talbot is great, so much fun. Really enjoyed Daisy and YoYo going at it physically while the men Fitz and Mack kept their sparring verbal, a nice change of gender role which I appreciated. I must say I'm pretty much on Mack and Daisy's side, Ruby was a lunatic, but she didn't deserve that and it was more about revenge than anything I think.

    How in gods name is Daisy still in love with Lincoln?? What the hell! Poor Deke is such a sweetie, he'd have laughed his ass off if he'd ever actually met Lincoln. The 20 lemons on the bed was such a nice visual.

    I'm sorry Hale was killed, I really liked her character. I wonder if Thanos and the situation on Earth will have further impact on the team?
    Daisy being still in love in Lincoln isn't that strange (that is, if you can buy that she was in love with him in the first place) - it's only been about 8 months in-universe since he died. Clearly the show wanted us to think throughout season 4 that she was still grieving for him, and the entirety of season 5 has taken up just a few weeks (from the protagonists' POV, other than Fitz, who spent 6 months in the past before he got frozen for 70 years).

    Now, I can only wish that the show had ever bothered making that relationship remotely convincing or compelling while he was still alive and they were together. But it is what it is. I try to fanwank it with an explanation that she’s been in love with the memory of him from the season 3 finale as the hero who died for her, more than she was in love with him when he was alive, because that’s what would make most sense, because I'd have much more trouble believing that she was supposedly in love with him in season 3 while he was still alive (Hive telling Lincoln "Daisy loved you, or she thought she loved you" was the only thing that even suggests we were meant to think that), going by what we actually saw on screen.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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  13. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Daisy being still in love in Lincoln isn't that strange (that is, if you can buy that she was in love with him in the first place) - it's only been about 8 months in-universe since he died. Clearly the show wanted us to think throughout season 4 that she was still grieving for him, and the entirety of season 5 has taken up just a few weeks (from the protagonists' POV, other than Fitz, who spent 6 months in the past before he got frozen for 70 years).

    Now, I can only wish that the show had ever bothered making that relationship remotely convincing or compelling while he was still alive and they were together. But it is what it is. I try to fanwank it with an explanation that she’s been in love with the memory of him from the season 3 finale as the hero who died for her, more than she was in love with him when he was alive, because that’s what would make most sense, because I'd have much more trouble believing that she was supposedly in love with him in season 3 while he was still alive (Hive telling Lincoln "Daisy loved you, or she thought she loved you" was the only thing that even suggests we were meant to think that), going by what we actually saw on screen.
    I hadn't thought of the length of time in-universe TTB, you are quite right, it hasn't been that long since Lincoln's death and Daisy must still be mourning his loss. Like you, I didn't believe the relationship for one minute and found it eye-rolling, it was so cringey.

  14. #192
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    I hope AoS gets at least one more season. Maybe one more chance to make a decent season. Haven't been big fan (overall) of the last few.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowiMetdaSlayer View Post
    I hope AoS gets at least one more season. Maybe one more chance to make a decent season. Haven't been big fan (overall) of the last few.
    Season 4 was their best, but season 5 has had issues and I'm not sure how much I like it overall. I think at the moment it's probably my least favorite alongside season 2.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowiMetdaSlayer View Post
    I hope AoS gets at least one more season. Maybe one more chance to make a decent season. Haven't been big fan (overall) of the last few.
    I think season 5 is my 3rd favorite, season 2 is second and then season 4 is the best by a mile. But I have really enjoyed this season overall- granted the first half was better than the second, but it's picked up the pace and looks like it could have a hell of an ending.



    As far as episode 21, Talbot with his family was a really great scene, May and Deke interacting while May kicks ass was pretty entertaining, and they finally killed off that weird Confederacy guy which I appreciated. Mack and Yoyo seem to be on better terms, which was sweet. I really enjoy all the full circle work they've done- especially now with the centipede syrum. Plus, Daisy thinks that's the last of it, but doesn't Deathlok still have some in him? Time. For. Another. Dramatic. J. August. Richards. Entrance.

    Most importantly, PHILINDA!!! Plus Daisy's reaction was my favorite thing she's done in a while.
    Hello cutie

  17. #195
    Scooby Gang DanSlayer's Avatar
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    And we're coming back, though only for 13 episodes: http://tvline.com/2018/05/14/agents-...ewed-season-6/

    I assume this will make it premiere in 2019, though we'll know the full plan by Tuesday. Close out the character arcs, resolve Vjay Nadeer and Felix Blake and I'm happy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On mobile so can't link but it's confirmed S6 is held for midseason so 2019.
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 14-05-18 at 08:56 PM.

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  19. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanSlayer View Post
    And we're coming back, though only for 13 episodes: http://tvline.com/2018/05/14/agents-...ewed-season-6/

    I assume this will make it premiere in 2019, though we'll know the full plan by Tuesday. Close out the character arcs, resolve Vjay Nadeer and Felix Blake and I'm happy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On mobile so can't link but it's confirmed S6 is held for midseason so 2019.
    So what is the premiere date going to be? I'm wondering how it falls re: the release date of Infinity War 2 (20 May 2019).
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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  21. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    So what is the premiere date going to be? I'm wondering how it falls re: the release date of Infinity War 2 (20 May 2019).
    Still can't link but TVLine says the ABC President has put it out for Summer 2019 so totally after A4. Don't think any of the shows will deal with The Snap. Unless Cloak & Dagger goes left field but I highly doubt that.

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    I don't post here about it but I do watch the show.

    http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/94...il-summer-2019

    Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD Season 6 Won’t Premiere Until Summer 2019
    The new season will also be shortened

    By Spencer Perry ON May 15, 2018

    Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD Season 6 won’t premiere until summer 2019

    Yesterday, it was announced that ABC had renewed Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD for a sixth (and shortened) season. Now, there are new details on the next installment of the series, including that it won’t air until Summer 2019 on ABC, putting it well after the release of the impending Avengers 4. Some fans might think of the move as a negative thing, but the network says that it will be for the betterment of the show.

    “What we’ve discovered is that we have a very loyal and passionate fan base for S.H.I.E.L.D. The show does incredibly well for us in delayed viewing,” ABC president Channing Dungey told TVLine. “By putting it in the summer, we’re going to be able to super-serve the fan base that loves that show and hopefully give it an opportunity to continue on longer than we would if it was [scheduled] in-season.”

    The season five finale of Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD, titled “The End,” is set to air this Friday, May 18, on ABC.

    http://tvline.com/2018/05/15/agents-...6-summer-2019/

    Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 6 Set for Summer 2019 Premiere

    By Matt Webb Mitovich / May 15 2018



    The Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. better hope the Lighthouse is stocked up on sunblock.

    ABC’s Marvel drama, which over the weekend was renewed for a shortened, 13-episode Season 6 to air at midseason, in fact will not return until Summer 2019, ABC president Channing Dungey announced on Tuesday during an Upfronts Week press call.

    Dungey told TVLine that the summertime scheduling was strictly ABC’s decision, and not necessarily out of deference to any of the larger Marvel Cinematic Universe’s plans. (Avengers 4 — the follow-up to Avengers: Infinity War, the end of which would seem to have significant implications for the characters on TV’s S.H.I.E.L.D. — hits theaters next May.) “Whatever they [at Marvel Studios] have planned, I cannot say,” she hedged.

    As for speculation that Season 6, being S.H.I.E.L.D.‘s first-ever shortened run, will serve as the show’s swan song, Dungey told me, “I feel like Season 5 was their creatively strongest yet, so I don’t at the moment have any plans to think of Season 6 as the last season.”

    In fact, the summertime schedule could extend the show’s life span.

    “What we’ve discovered is that we have a very loyal and passionate fan base for S.H.I.E.L.D. The show does incredibly well for us in delayed viewing,” Dungey explained. “By putting it in the summer, we’re going to be able to ‘super-serve’ the fan base that loves that show and hopefully give it an opportunity to continue on longer than we would if it was [scheduled] in-season.”

    Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. airs its Season 5 finale this Friday at 9/8c.


    Sucks that we'll have to wait a whole year for season 6.On the flip side,this means season 6 will begin after Avengers 4 comes out meaning
    Spoiler:
    I'm now really thinking this week's finale will show some of the characters dusting due to Infinity War by the end of the episode and by waiting until next summer for season 6,they don't don't have to force themselves to work a new season around the Infinity War cliffhanger.They can just pick up after Avengers 4 and deal with the fallout of it in the season 6 premiere.

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    They wrote this finale with the possibility there would be no S6 at all. I don't see any dusting in that.

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    I wonder if we'll finally see these events happen.


    The second one's important since the season opened with that image.

    Spoilers for IW
    Spoiler:
    Giving that "The End" was written to act as both a season finale and as a series finale I can't see any of the characters getting dusted due to the events of the movie. Let's be honest it would be really bad storytelling if the characters got killed off due to an outside story element.

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