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Thread: The Road So Far: All Seasons Discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehlwyen View Post
    But still I can understand that Sam was in a recognizeable human state of grief. There is so much talk of Dean having PTSD, why doesnt it get applied to Sam in this case?
    Actually, PTSD/grief is applied to Sam in this case, at least by the faction of fandom that cares enough about Sam to try and make his case for him. It's even fleetingly mentioned in canon, when Sam states that his world imploded and he ran. It's easy to make a very compelling case for Sam's actions. Only the writers didn't make it. All they had to do was to show Sam's grief, his trauma, to explore the aftermath of Dean's disappearance and allow the audience - and Dean - to see and understand and sympathise with Sam's point of view and his choices. Instead the writers emphasised Dean's hurt and disappointment without giving Sam's perspective the same weight. The writers deliberately chose to start Sam's story after he made his choices in regard to Dean.
    Last edited by galathea; 20-08-13 at 09:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Actually, PTSD/grief is applied to Sam in this case. It's fleetingly mentioned when Sam states that his world imploded and he ran. It's easy to make a very compelling case for Sam's actions. Only the writers didn't make it. All they had to do was to show Sam's grief, his trauma, to explore the aftermath of Dean's disappearance and allow the audience - and Dean - to see and understand and sympathise with Sam's point of view and his choices. Instead the writers emphasised Dean's hurt and disappointment without giving Sam's perspective the same weight. The writers deliberately chose to start Sam's story after he made his choices in regard to Dean.
    As I pointed out in my last post I actually do think they attempt to link PTSD and a mental break with Sam's decision in Hunteri Heroici through both the flashbacks and Sam's speech. It just seems to have been done in such a manner that most of the audience sadly did not grasp the writers intention
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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Actually, PTSD/grief is applied to Sam in this case. It's fleetingly mentioned when Sam states that his world imploded and he ran. It's easy to make a very compelling case for Sam's actions. Only the writers didn't make it. All they had to do was to show Sam's grief, his trauma, to explore the aftermath of Dean's disappearance and allow the audience - and Dean - to see and understand and sympathise with Sam's point of view and his choices. Instead the writers emphasised Dean's hurt and disappointment without giving Sam's perspective the same weight. The writers deliberately chose to start Sam's story after he made his choices in regard to Dean.
    I totally agree with you here! My biggest issue with Sam's flashback story is that it wasn't explored enough so we don't understand/care about Amelia

    See we can agree on some things Season 8 related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    As I pointed out in my last post I actually do think they attempt to link PTSD and a mental break with Sam's decision in Hunteri Heroici through both the flashbacks and Sam's speech. It just seems to have been done in such a manner that most of the audience sadly did not grasp the writers intention
    It's just too abstract and fleeting and can easily waved away, because it's not made explicit in canon. And it's also made more difficult because the writers undermined Sam's own few words about the emotional trauma he suffered by suddenly calling that stupid non-agreement into existence. The latter just allows for a more negative reading on Sam's actions. 'Hey, we had that agreement, so I didn't look for you' is just not the same as 'I had a mental breakdown and was unable look for you'. All that just makes me doubt that the writers actually had the intention to link PTSD to Sam's decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    It's just too abstract and fleeting and can easily waved away, because it's not made explicit in canon. And it's also made more difficult because the writers undermined Sam's own few words about the emotional trauma he suffered by suddenly calling that stupid non-agreement into existence. The latter just allows for a more negative reading on Sam's actions. 'Hey, we had that agreement, so I didn't look for you' is just not the same as 'I had a mental breakdown and was unable look for you'. All that just makes me doubt that the writers actually had the intention to link PTSD to Sam's decision.
    Hmm, was it the absolute best way to handle the situation? No I don't think it was. But at the same time Supernatural is a show which is filled with parallels and has the MOTW often link back to the boys in one way or the other. I don't really see it as completely unrealistic when between his speech and the flashbacks to think this was the intended case for Hunteri Heroici.

    As I said it just severely bugs me how often people refer to Dean's PTSD and yet they never ever give the same allowances to Sam. Instead of considering Sam as a broken man who has been through so much in the past few years and now found himself without his brother who he genuinely considered dead and broke as a result. Fans are all to happy to just paint him as this callous and cold b*stard who waltzed off and forget about Dean completely and I'm sorry but even if it was not handled brilliantly the show did show that was not the case.
    Last edited by Bittersweettwit; 20-08-13 at 09:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    Hmm, was it the absolute best way to handle the situation? No I don't think it was. But at the same time Supernatural is a show which is filled with parallels and has the MOTW often link back to the boys in one way or the other. I don't really see it as completely unrealistic when between his speech and the flashbacks to think this was the intended case for Hunteri Heroici.
    Well, given the writers treatment of Sam in the past and the general dislike for Sam in fandom, it was not only not the absolute best way to handle Sam's story, it was actually the worst way to handle his story. You don't need to convince me, as you know. I appreciate what Hunteri Heroici tried to do for Sam's storyline, but unfortunately it was too little, too late, and the effect was kind of undermined by the ugly soap-opera turn Sam's flashback story with Amelia took at the end of the episode, as well as by the uneven tone of the episode. Oh, and by the fact that it was never mentioned again. /sigh

    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    As I said it just severely bugs me how often people refer to Dean's PTSD and yet they never ever give the same allowances to Sam. Instead of considering Sam as a broken man who has been through so much in the past few years and now found himself without his brother who he genuinely considered dead and broke as a result. Fans are all to happy to just paint him as this callous and cold b*stard who waltzed off and forget about Dean completely and I'm sorry but even if it was not handled brilliantly the show did show that was not the case.
    I am in complete agreement, of course.
    Last edited by galathea; 20-08-13 at 10:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Well, given the writers treatment of Sam in the past and the general dislike for Sam in fandom, it was not only not the absolute best way to handle Sam's story, it was actually the worst way to handle his story. You don't need to convince me, as you know. I appreciate what Hunteri Heroici tried to do for Sam's storyline, but unfortunately it was too little, too late, and the effect was kind of undermined by the ugly soap-opera turn Sam's flashback story with Amelia took at the end of the episode, as well as by the uneven tone of the episode. /sigh
    I actually think with hindsight we were supposed to sympathise with both brothers. We were supposed to sympathise with Dean and his feeling of abandonment and we were supposed to sympathise with Sam for not only breaking, but for having to deal with his brothers dismissal of both his wishes and dreams. Partially the failure to achieve this balance was down to bad writing, but sadly it is also partially owing to the fandom's general tendency to sweep Dean's faults under the carpet and hold Sam's against him. A predisposition that has sadly dominated this fandom long before Carver and Co came anywhere near running the show
    Last edited by Bittersweettwit; 20-08-13 at 10:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalMindy View Post
    Here's my theory and it's probably not very popular. Sam decided this was his way out. He said "eff this, I'm starting over." IMO he's always resented Dean bringing him into the Family Business and here's his chance out. But I'm a relatively new fan and probably not as insightful as others. It's just my opinion.
    See, this is exactly the kind of statement that I find disrespectful towards Sam's character. In every instance in the past seven seasons where Dean was hurt/died/disappeared, Sam was the one to go completely off the deep end. He didn't rest until he had his brother back and he was willing to go to any length to do so. So Sam turning around and just walking away when Dean is in trouble is just not in his character. As for Sam's supposed resentment for Dean pulling him back into the family business, it's just not true. In Defending Your Life Sam explicitly stated that he doesn't blame Dean for anything, that it was his choice to go back to the family business when Jessica died. Dean's belief that Sam resents him for pulling him back into the life was clearly revealed as a projection of guilt on Dean's part. So your statement could not be more wrong.

    Look, I know I said this before, but I guess it bears repeating: There is only one explanation for Sam's choices in the aftermath of Dean's disappearance that makes sense AND is supported by canon, and that explanation is that Sam thought Dean had died in the blast that killed Dick Roman. Sam's surprised 'you're alive' when he is reunited with Dean at the beginning of S8, as well as his statement that 'nothing says family quite like the whole family being dead', clearly suggest that the possibility of Dean being alive didn't even cross Sam's mind. Moreover, in the flashbacks, whenever Sam talks about Dean, his tone and choice of words convey grief over losing Dean. If he had abandoned Dean to an unknown fate, I'd say his grief would have been tinged with guilt, but he never comes off like that to me. Lastly, Sam's situation with Dean was clearly set up as a parallel to Amelia's situation with Don. Just like Amelia thought that Don had died in the war, Sam thought Dean had died in his war against the supernatural. Theirs was a story of two people grieving their partner and being completely thrown by the revelation that their dead partners had survived.

    Now, I know it is often brought up that when Dean disappeared in Time After Time, Sam threw himself into finding him, so why wouldn't he do the same after Dean's disappearance in Survival of the Fittest? In my opinion the situations are just not the same. In Time After Time, Sam saw his very much alive brother fall into a 'time portal'. There was no reason for him to believe that Dean was dead. In Survival of the Fittest, however, he saw a supernatural explosion that disintegrated Dick Roman, so the conclusion that said explosion disintegrated Dean and Castiel as well was not unreasonable. Granted, it was not the only conclusion Sam could have drawn, but I think we have to factor in Sam's state of mind here. Just weeks before, Sam was paralysed at the thought of Dean dying and leaving him alone (The Slice Girls). Moreover, in a small scene in Survival of the Fittest that was unfortunately cut for time reasons - I really, really wished they had kept the scene in the episode - Sam and Dean say their goodbyes before they head off to do their parts in bringing Dick Roman down, and they tell each other: "Don't die!" So, the fear that Dean could die in his confrontation with Dick Roman was clearly not far from Sam's mind. Taking all this into consideration, it is not that surprising that Sam's mind leapt to the worst possible conclusion.

    So, if Sam truly thought that Dean was dead, there was simply no reason for him to even try and look for him, because Sam knew for a fact that when Dean dies he goes to heaven (Dark Side of the Moon). All he could do was pick up the pieces of his life and try to move on. This is the version of events I conclude from what we have seen of Sam's story in S8, and I stand by it as the most reasonable one. Granted, Sam's stuipd statement about the agreement between him and Dean still doesn't make much sense, but it is easily re-interpreted as their agreement to not bring each other back from the dead. Can you even imagine the guilt and self-loathing Sam must have experienced when he found out just how wrong he had been about what happened to Dean? It must have been crippling, and Dean's hurt and disappointment must have been salt on an open wound.
    Last edited by galathea; 22-08-13 at 03:56 PM.

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    I saw the following link on the SPN Newsletter this morning http://www.buddytv.com/slideshows/su...n-8-92145.aspx which discusses buddytv's favourite moments from season eight. With just under a month left until the season nine premier I thought it'd be nice for us all to outline our best and even worst scenes of season 8.

    I'll start us off unsurprisingly most are Dean and Cas scenes

    Best Scenes of Season 8
    1. The hug Between the brothers when they reunite in We Need To Talk About Kevin and Sam's "Your frigging alive". Their absolute joy to be reunited was touching
    2. The reunion between Dean and Castiel in purgatory. I absolutely adore that scene whether it's the sheer delight on Dean's face to see him again as they hug or the affectionate "Nice peach fuzz", or the fact Dean prayed to him every night and the admission of needing Cas . It's a Cas/Dean fan delight
    3. The Cas and Dean scene at the end of A Little Slice of Kevin. Jensen and Misha's acting was superb and I loved how Castiel could see Dean's pain over leaving him behind in purgatory and tried his best to free him of it by teaching him he can't save everyone. Then there's the character development we got to see from Castiel where for the first time he truly takes responsibilities for his own actions.
    4. The motel room scene between Dean and Cas in Hunteri Heroici. I love that it is Dean who reaches out to Cas to talk about how he is feeling and Castiel's admission that he is suicidal breaks my heart
    5. The LARP final scene of LARP and the Real Girl. It was great to see the brothers getting to have fun for once and Dean giving the braveheart speech was brilliant
    6. The 'pick up' scene with Aaron in Everybody Hates Hitler. I'm not generally much of a fan of Jensen and Jared's comedy acting, but I have to say he pulled off Dean's awkwardness about Aaron's flirtatious behaviour pretty well.
    7. Sam's speech to Dean in Trial and Error. I loved the on screen acknowledgement of how great a hunter Dean truly is and Jared acting is fantastic
    8. The prayer scene at the end of Remember the Titans. It was a pretty nice way to highlight Dean's care and trust in both Sam and Cas in my opinion.
    9. The crypt scene in Goodbye Stranger while it is difficult to watch as Cas beats on Dean hearing him reaffirming the fact that he needs Cas and seeing their bond allow Cas to beat Naomi's influence makes it worth it.


    The Worst Scenes of Season 8
    1. The vast majority of Dean's scenes with Benny. I have nothing against Ty Olsson as an actor, but the way the story was told meant I could never buy into the Dean and Benny friendship and without that emotional investment their scenes bore me.
    2. The market scene (at the beginning of Blood Brothers?) seeing Dean be so selfish and dismissive of Sam's wishes really irked me.
    3. The reunion scene at the end of Torn and Frayed. The fact that they had to give up a person they cared for (Benny and Amelia) in order to come back together and be miserable was horrendous. It is an immature and insulting way to portray the brothers and their relationship.
    4. Not so much a scene but the tonal backlash of LARP and the Real Girl strongly affected my enjoyment of the episode. The previous episode ends with them discovering a person they both care for is clearly not right at the moment and the brothers are understandably worried. Then all of a sudden they're all about fun and games Cas be damned
    5. The scene between Bobby and Sam in purgatory. I already had issues with the ghost story-line and found it out of character, but Bobby's attitude during this scene makes the story-line even more redundant. Didn't he learn what is dead should stay dead?
    6. Not so much a scene but I think I have to add along the characterisation I mention above the general bending of the mytharc in Taxi Driver was a low point of the season.
    7. The retcon revealed in The Great Escapist about Naomi mind raping Castiel for a millenia. It just makes me look at him in previous seasons in an uneasy light
    8. The reveal Charlie is an excellent shot and hacked big companies at a very young age. They're making her feel very Mary Sue to me now.
    9. The scene outside the church where Dean once more lays into Sam and blames him for being a victim (his soulless state). That was not cool and really undermines the brothers relationship for the last few years
    10. The scene in Sacrifice where Castiel once more has been tricked and forced into causing some sort of catastrophe.


    What about everyone else?
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    Okay, here is my list. It's probably not a complete list, but is has to suffice!

    Favourite moments of S8
    1. Sam and Dean's joyous hug when they are reunited, and Sam buying Dean a burger (We Need To Talk About Kevin)
    2. Dean calling Sam whilst in the middle of cleaning a vampire nest, because apparently he cannot wait to talk to him, and then using the active cell phone as a decoy for the vampires (Blood Brother)
    3. Garth telling Sam and Dean that Bobby didn't just belong to them and that other people grieve for him, too (Southern Comfort)
    4. Sam and Dean’s intimate nightly conversation about Dean’s feelings of guilt where saving Castiel from purgatory is concerned (A Little Slice of Kevin)
    5. Sam and Dean participating in the Battle of Moondoor (LARP and The Real Girl)
    6. Everybody Hates Hitler is one long favourite moment of the season for me. In particular a) Sam and Dean acting like two kids in the candy store when they find the Batcave b) Dean acknowledging that Sam has found his vocation in his heritage as a Man of Letters and c) every single scene involving Aaron and his Golem
    7. Dean nesting and cooking burgers for Sam (Trial and Error)
    8. Sam's speech to Dean about leading him towards the light (Trial and Error)
    9. Dean telling Sam that he cannot carry the burden of the trials, but that he can carry him (Remember The Titans)
    10. Dean hugging Sam in an unprompted gesture of affection, and Charlie reading The Hobbit to her mum for the last time (Pac-Man Fever)
    11. Each and every hurt/comfort moment between the brothers when Sam is suffering from the trial-related sickness
    12. The final scene between Sam and Dean in Sacrifice. I may have my issues with it, but the rare insight it offers into Sam’s deep feelings of guilt and inadequacy makes it worthwhile in any case.

    Worst Moments of S8
    1. Dean telling Sam that Benny has been a better brother to him, because he has never let him down (Citizen Fang). It's completely out of line and retroactively dismisses every sacrifice Sam has ever made for Dean.
    2. Dean sending Sam a fake distress call from Amelia to lure him away from Benny (Citizen Fang)
    3. The opening scene between the brothers in Torn and Frayed, where Sam and Dean both act like petty, petulant children, who stubbornly argue from positions they criticised in the past. The scene illustrates everything that is wrong with the first half of the season for me.
    4. Dean inexplicably returning to his unconditional John hero-worship (As Time Goes By)
    5. Dean telling Sam that his perfect ending is for Sam to have a normal life (Trial and Error). In and of itself that is not a bad scene, but it feels extremely jarring in light of the fact that throughout the first half of the season Dean is coming down hard on Sam for actually pursuing that 'perfect ending'. The contrast just makes Dean’s statement in Trial and Error look dishonest.
    6. The crypt scene between Dean and Castiel in Goodbye Stranger. I have written about that scene in some length and I don’t want to go into it again. Let’s just say it was one of the most hurtful moments of the season for me.
    7. Dean refusing to answer Sam's simple, concerned question about his emotional well-being in Freaks and Geeks. It’s not only entirely out of character at this point, but also makes Dean look really hypocritical because, just one episode prior, he asked Sam to be honest with him about his health issues. Apparently he is unable to extend the same courtesy to Sam, though.
    8. Taxi Driver is one long worst moment of the show for me. ‘Nuff said!
    9. Castiel behaving like a bumbling idiot in a grocery store and bullying the poor cashier when he is out of pie (The Great Escapist). It's supposed to be funny, I guess, but I find it really cringe-worthy. Not to mention that the fact that Castiel apparently thinks he can buy Dean's friendship back makes him look completely clueless about what makes Dean tick.
    10. Dean listing Sam’s sins just before his brother is walking into his third trial for no apparent reason and without being provoked into it. It makes him look really callous. (Sacrifice)
    11. Not one moment per se, but the utter and complete lack of an active reconciliation process between Dean and Castiel made a mockery of their relationship for me
    12. Every moment Linda Tran was on my TV screen. Sorry, I hated her.
    Last edited by galathea; 11-09-13 at 10:24 AM.

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    One moment I hated that Tumblr just reminded me of was the boys discovery of the dungeon in Clip Show. Considering Dean's history with torture to see him smile excitedly and utter "finally" at the prospect of having somewhere to do so was rather chilling. It felt out of character to me while Dean may now torture as necessary it is certainy not in my opinion something he relishes in especially after hell the way this scene suggests.

    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Garth telling Sam and Dean that Bobby didn't just belong to them and that other people grieve for him, too (Southern Comfort)
    Ooh this for me too! I had totally forgotten about it, but you are right it was a wonderful scene highlighting just how much of a hero and inspiration Bobby was

    The final scene between Sam and Dean in Sacrifice. I may have my issues with it, but the rare insight it offers into Samís deep feelings of guilt and inadequacy makes it worthwhile in any case.
    I had considered including this moment as there are parts I really appreciate the importance of. But due to my issues with the angle the conversation was spoken I left it out.

    Dean telling Sam that Benny has been a better brother to him, because he has never let him down. It's completely out of line and retroactively dismisses every sacrifice Sam has ever made for Dean (Citizen Fang)
    Oh yeah this one totally! It was scenes like this that helped fuelled the resentment I had towards Benny for most of the season

    Dean sending Sam a fake distress call from Amelia to lure him away from Benny (Citizen Fang)
    Ugh another thing I had managed to repress. Considering he knows what Sam has been through with Jess to worry him like that was despicable. I get angry at Dean just thinking about it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    One moment I hated that Tumblr just reminded me of was the boys discovery of the dungeon in Clip Show. Considering Dean's history with torture to see him smile excitedly and utter "finally" at the prospect of having somewhere to do so was rather chilling. It felt out of character to me while Dean may now torture as necessary it is certainy not in my opinion something he relishes in especially after hell the way this scene suggests.
    Yes, absolutely. Dean's excitement seems entirely out of place. Especially given the anguish Dean displayed in On The Head of A Pin when he was ordered to torture Alistair. His own inner darkness is something Dean fears, not something he enjoys. He made that very clear on several occasions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    Ugh another thing I had managed to repress. Considering he knows what Sam has been through with Jess to worry him like that was despicable. I get angry at Dean just thinking about it
    It's was not only a very hurtful move on Dean's part, but also a very reckless one. Only moments before, Dean told Benny how dangerous his brother is. Just imagine a seriously distressed Sam arriving at Amelia's and, instead of Amelia and Don cuddling, he witnesses a scene that could be construed as Amelia in danger. Sam wouldn't think twice to strike out. Dean placed anyone who was with Amelia in serious danger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Yes, absolutely. Dean's excitement seems entirely out of place. Especially given the anguish Dean displayed in On The Head of A Pin when he was ordered to torture Alistair. His own inner darkness is something Dean fears, not something he enjoys. He made that very clear on several occasions.
    Exactly, while he has come along away from The End where he showed disgust at the very idea of going back to torture. It is for me something that Dean does because it is needed not because he relishes it. As you said he fears his inner darkness and this scene just does not work!

    It's was not only a very hurtful move on Dean's part, but also a very reckless one. Only moments before, Dean told Benny how dangerous his brother is. Just imagine a seriously distressed Sam arriving at Amelia's and, instead of Amelia and Don cuddling, he witnesses a scene that could be construed as Amelia in danger. Sam wouldn't think twice to strike out. Dean placed anyone who was with Amelia in serious danger.
    You're absolutely right! You know I think we have discusse this before but moments like this and others I mention in my hated scenes made me come this close to hating Dean. If it weren't for the fact we have seven previous seasons I loved him in I probably would hate him
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    Hey

    So I am nearly done with a S5 rewatch and have a quick question. Why in later seasons did Crowley want Meg so badly? The only reason I can remember is that she is a Lucifer loyalist, but then Crowley was quite alone in his anti-Lucifer agenda in S5 and yet he still took control of the other demons. So why did he want to kill Meg in particular so badly?
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    So I saw a discussion on Livejournal about which writers they preferred and why! I then of course was curious to see which writers you all preferred from the current writing team. For those like myself who don't know all of their episodes off the top of their head here's a list, feel free to let me know if there are any I've missed.

    Jeremy Carver: Sin City, A Very Supernatural Christmas, Mystery Spot, Long Distance Phone Call, In the Beginning, Family Remains, Death Takes a Holiday, The Rapture, Free To Be You and Me, Changing Channels, Dead Man Wears Plaid, Point of No Return, We Need To Talk about Kevin and Sacrifice.

    Andrew Dabb: Yellow Fever, After School Special, Jump the Shark, I Believe the Children Are Our Future, Sam, Interrupted, Dark Side of the Moon, Hammer of the Gods, Weekend At Bobby's, Family Matters, Unforgiven, Frontierland, The Girl Next Door, Time For A Wedding, Plucky Pennywhistle's Magic Menagerie, There Will Be Blood, What's Up, Tiger Mommy?, (All Co-Written with Daniel Loflin), Hunteri Heroici, Trial and Error, Clip Show.

    Daniel Loflin: Yellow Fever, After School Special, Jump the Shark, I Believe the Children Are Our Future, Sam, Interrupted, Dark Side of the Moon, Hammer of the Gods, Weekend At Bobby's, Family Matters, Unforgiven, Frontierland, The Girl Next Door, Time For A Wedding, Plucky Pennywhistle's Magic Menagerie, There Will Be Blood, What's Up, Tiger Mommy?, (All Co-Written with Andrew Dabb), Citizen Fang, Remember the Titans.

    Eugenie Ross Leming and Brad Bruckner: Route 666, Shut Up, Dr.Phil, The Slice Girls, Of Grave Importance, Heartache, A Little Slice of Kevin, Man's Best Friend With Benefits, Taxi Driver.

    Robbie Thompson: Slash Fiction, Time After Time, The Girl With The Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo, Bitten, LARP and the Real Girl, Goodbye Stranger, Pac-Man Fever.

    Adam Glass: Two And A Half Men, All Dogs Go To Heaven, Like A Virgin, Mommy Dearest, Defending Your Life, Adventures In Babysitting, Southern Comfort, As Time Goes By, Freaks and Geeks.

    Jenny Klein: The Curious Case of Dean Winchester (co-written with Sera Gamble), Caged Heat (co-written with Brett Matthews), Out With The Old (co-written with Robert Singer), Torn and Frayed.

    Eric Charmelo & Nicole Synder: You Can't Handle The Truth, Mannequin 3: The Reckoning, My Heart Will Go On.
    Personally I would say that I would consider Robbie Thompson to be the most technically proficient of the current writing team. The pace of his episodes is generally excellent and I think for the most part his characterisation of the boys and the general dialogue is mostly spot on. Looking at that episode list I would also say that I like Eugenie Russ Leming and Brad Bruckner while far from the most proficient writers I have enjoyed episodes of theirs like the excellent Of Grave Importance, A Little Slice of Kevin and Man's Best Friends with Benefits. The only real exception would be Taxi Driver which I absolutely hate, but I don't think there are any writers on the current team who haven't written at least one episode I've hated

    Based on the list Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin are probably my least favourite writers on the current team. They do have some excellent episodes like After School Special and Dark Side of the Moon under their belts, but with the exception of Hunteri Heroici I haven't really enjoyed any of their work the last few seasons.

    What about the rest of you?
    Last edited by Bittersweettwit; 02-10-13 at 10:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    So I am nearly done with a S5 rewatch and have a quick question. Why in later seasons did Crowley want Meg so badly? The only reason I can remember is that she is a Lucifer loyalist, but then Crowley was quite alone in his anti-Lucifer agenda in S5 and yet he still took control of the other demons. So why did he want to kill Meg in particular so badly?
    Well, as you may remember, Meg tried to kill Crowley back in Caged Heat, because he made it his agenda to hunt down all Lucifer loyalists to secure his position as king of hell. She made a deal with Sam and Dean, who helped her capture him; she then tortured Crowley for information and he only narrowly escaped her attempt to kill him. Unsurprisingly, Crowley didn't take Meg's attempt on his life kindly and put a bounty on her head, as we learned in The Born-Again Identity. I hope that answers your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    So I saw a discussion on Livejournal about which writers they preferred and why! I then of course was curious to see which writers you all preferred from the current writing team.
    I think it's not a secret that I consider Robbie Thompson the best writer we have left in the current creative team. His episodes are very well paced and always have a very nice balance between action, humour and emotion. He also has a keen grasp on Sam and Dean's characterisation, which I appreciate a lot. He really is the only stand-out writer for me at the moment.

    I really want to say that Jeremy Carver is my second favourite writer, because he wrote some of my absolute favourite episodes in the past, but ever since he took over as a showrunner I seriously doubt that he has any true understanding of the characters and the mythology. I actually have a hard time reconciling his work as a showrunner with episodes like A Very Supernatural Christmas, Mystery Spot or Point of No Return - and his most recent episodes are really not even in the same league as the aforementioned ones. I really don't know what to make of it.

    I like Adam Glass, Daniel Loflin and Andrew Dabb well enough. They have occasional glimpses of brilliance, but their writing can occasionally be pretty dull, too. I haven't seen enough of Jenny Klein's work or Charmelo/Snyder's work to really have an informed opinion about them, and my dislike for Ross-Leming/Buckner is well known, so I won't go into it again. I rant enough about them as it is.
    Last edited by galathea; 02-10-13 at 11:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Well, as you may remember, Meg tried to kill Crowley back in Caged Heat, because he made it his agenda to hunt down all Lucifer loyalists to secure his position as king of hell. She made a deal with Sam and Dean, who helped her capture him; she then tortured Crowley for information and he only narrowly escaped her attempt to kill him. Unsurprisingly, Crowley didn't take Meg's attempt on his life kindly and put a bounty on her head, as we learned in The Born-Again Identity. I hope that answers your question.
    Ah that explains it Damn my inability to muster up the courage to rewatch season six again

    I actually have a hard time reconciling his work as a showrunner with episodes like A Very Supernatural Christmas, Mystery Spot or Point of No Return - and his most recent episodes are really not even in the same league as the aforementioned ones. I really don't know what to make of it.
    I think it is either a case of Carver has himself stretched far too thin (apparently he still helps out with Being Human) and it is affecting the quality of his work, or his Kripke era episodes underwent alot more scrutiny and editing than we actually realise.

    I like Adam Glass, Daniel Loflin and Andrew Dabb well enough. They have occasional glimpses of brilliance, but their writing can occasionally be pretty dull, too.
    This is my biggest issue with them I find with several of their episodes (Trial and Error springs to mind) a brilliant and interesting concept is present but the way it is written comes across as flat and positively bores me!
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