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Thread: Spoilers & Speculations Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    I am quite unclear how this whole 'angels falling' thing is supposed to work anyway. I mean, we know that angels need vessels, so what? Are we supposed to believe that all the angels we saw falling at the end of 'Sacrifice' just got consent from their respective vessels? Or will they be reborn as human babies, like Anna?
    I am under the impression that the angels fall will be the same as Lucifer as someone stated during the episode (Naomi? I need to rewatch to be sure of who). Therefore, I'd assume that the angels will be stuck on earth in a non-corporal form depending on getting the consent of their vessels by communicating with them via means similar to Lucifer with Nick in Sympathy for the Devil or Castiel with Jimmy in The Rapture. Unless Carver & Co opt for saying something to the contrary while discussing season nine during interviews or at cons I'm going to assume thanks to the Lucifer comparison that the angels will have their powers but simply be banned from going to heaven. Castiel on the other hand lost his angelic abilities due to Metatron taking his grace as apart of the spell he used to banish the angels from heaven
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    I am under the impression that the angels fall will be the same as Lucifer as someone stated during the episode (Naomi? I need to rewatch to be sure of who). Therefore, I'd assume that the angels will be stuck on earth in a non-corporal form depending on getting the consent of their vessels by communicating with them via means similar to Lucifer with Nick in Sympathy for the Devil or Castiel with Jimmy in The Rapture. Unless Carver & Co opt for saying something to the contrary while discussing season nine during interviews or at cons I'm going to assume thanks to the Lucifer comparison that the angels will have their powers but simply be banned from going to heaven. Castiel on the other hand lost his angelic abilities due to Metatron taking his grace as apart of the spell he used to banish the angels from heaven
    Ah, thanks! That makes considerably more sense. See, that's what you get for discussing an episode you haven't actually seen yet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Ah, thanks! That makes considerably more sense. See, that's what you get for discussing an episode you haven't actually seen yet!
    Haha your welcome! Of course I've only seen it once and as you know from our other discussion on this episode it takes me a couple of watches before fully deciding on things But that's how I understand it as of now anyway. Plus it makes a lot more sense to me for the show to explore the consequences of the angels falling from grace by letting them keep their power and cause trouble next season than making them disappear quietly into the background never to be heard from again.
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    An older spoiler for next season I forgot to post in here for some reason till I stumbled across it again this morning!

    In Season 9, fans can expect a much more in-depth look at Castiel's life, his relationships, and his choices. We'll come to understand him on a different level than we've seen before. ~ Jeremy Carver
    Source: http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethe...g-charact.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    An older spoiler for next season I forgot to post in here for some reason till I stumbled across it again this morning!



    Source: http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethe...g-charact.html
    I was so excited when I read that interview... it was really quite evident that Cas was going to fall. Then the last 3 episodes of season 8 happened and I lost all my remaining faith in the showrunners LOL

    Will Cas finally be allowed to do something right, for once?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    I was so excited when I read that interview... it was really quite evident that Cas was going to fall. Then the last 3 episodes of season 8 happened and I lost all my remaining faith in the showrunners LOL

    Will Cas finally be allowed to do something right, for once?
    I remember being quite excited by it thinking that Cas would be treated like a real character again, but now even with him fallen and the writers no longer having the "too powerful" obstacle I just dread to think what they'll do with a human Cas. Probably a season filled with comedic bumbling baffoon Cas
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    Ben Edlund is leaving SN. He's going to work with Kripke on Revolution (blah, so much hate).

    https://twitter.com/mfluder_42/statu...08812661063680

    This doesn't bode well at all. Who are we left with in season 9? Thompson, Glass, and 20 episodes given to the awful duo Ross-Leming/Bruckner?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post
    Ben Edlund is leaving SN. He's going to work with Kripke on Revolution (blah, so much hate).

    https://twitter.com/mfluder_42/statu...08812661063680

    This doesn't bode well at all. Who are we left with in season 9? Thompson, Glass, and 20 episodes given to the awful duo Ross-Leming/Bruckner?

    Considering the fact that one of his episodes this season managed to upset me beyond belief (The Great Escapist), and another was a mild annoyance (Blood Brothers) leaving only one that I enjoyed (Everybody Hates Hitler, I'm not exactly sorry to see him go. Still I know there are plenty of fans on here included who are disappointed by the news so I'm sorry for them And I wish Edlund the best of luck with Revolution
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    Considering the fact that one of his episodes this season managed to upset me beyond belief (The Great Escapist), and another was a mild annoyance (Blood Brothers) leaving only one that I enjoyed (Everybody Hates Hitler, I'm not exactly sorry to see him go. Still I know there are plenty of fans on here included who are disappointed by the news so I'm sorry for them And I wish Edlund the best of luck with Revolution
    Well, sometimes writers deliver a script that angers/bores us for personal reasons, but that doesn't lessen their value for the show for me. I mean, man, I was furious with Thompson after Goodbye Stranger, but he still remains my favourite current writer for the show. No matter how much I hate that Dean&Castiel scene he wrote, I still value his talent for pacing, characterisation and balance above everything else. Similarly, Ben Edlund has written quite a few episodes that I really dislike, but I still admire his ability to write poignant and well structured scrips. Really outstanding writers don't come along often and I think it's a blow for the show to lose any of them. A show is only as good as its writers and if I look at the writing team for S9, I despair.

    With Jenny Klein, who wrote the awful Torn and Frayed, promoted to staff writer and Ross-Leming/Buckner as a permanent fixture we have 3 really sucky writers. Dabb/Loflin and Glass are mostly solid, but they don't stand out either. That leaves us with Thompson and Carver, and Carver doesn't seem inclined to write a lot of episodes. With this set-up we really couldn't afford to lose Edlund as well, no matter how much we liked (or disliked) his S8 scripts. Besides, Everybody Hates Hitler was brilliant and easily the best episode of the season. And Blood Brother may have not appealed to you because of its Benny centricity, but it was by no means a badly written script.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    And Blood Brother may have not appealed to you because of its Benny centricity, but it was by no means a badly written script.
    Well actually there's a Castiel related scene I disliked in that episode which proved to be of annoyance. The Benny centricity just meant that I was switched off for portions of the episode as I was bored, but not a real reason to dislike or hold it against Edlund

    Well, sometimes writers deliver a script that angers/bores us for personal reasons, but that doesn't lessen their value for the show for me. I mean, man, I was furious with Thompson after Goodbye Stranger, but he still remains my favourite current writer for the show. No matter how much I hate that Dean&Castiel scene he wrote, I still value his talent for pacing, characterisation and balance above everything else. Similarly, Ben Edlund has written quite a few episodes that I really dislike, but I still admire his ability to write poignant and well structured scrips. Really outstanding writers don't come along often and I think it's a blow for the show to lose any of them. A show is only as good as its writers and if I look at the writing team for S9, I despair.

    With Jenny Klein, who wrote the awful Torn and Frayed, promoted to staff writer and Ross-Leming/Buckner as a permanent fixture we have 3 really sucky writers. Dabb/Loflin and Glass are mostly solid, but they don't stand out either. That leaves us with Thompson and Carver, and Carver doesn't seem inclined to write a lot of episodes. With this set-up we really couldn't afford to lose Edlund as well, no matter how much we liked (or disliked) his S8 scripts. Besides, Everybody Hates Hitler was brilliant and easily the best episode of the season.
    We'll have to agree to disagree I much preferred episodes such as Hunteri Heroici, Goodbye Stranger and A Little Slice of Kevin none of which were written by Edlund to Everybody Hates Hitler. Still like I said while I'm not personally sorry to see him go as his last episode put me off him completely I know there are plenty of you who are and I feel bad for you guys

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    For those who are interested there is an unconfirmed rumour going around that Misha / Castiel will appear in at least 14 episodes this season as Misha is said to have signed for that many episodes in his recurring character contract

    Since I said all along that I thought he'd be in 12 - 14 episodes and that those fans who thought he'd be in practically every episode were blowing things out of proportion I personally am not really surprised by this figure! In fact it's better than I could have hoped for as I was mostly expecting them to go for the 12 end of that scale
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    https://twitter.com/TheJimMichaels/s...97580890337281

    Eric Charmelo & Nicole Snyder wrote three season 6 episodes: My Heart Will Go On, Mannequin 3: The Reckoning, and You Can't Handle the Truth. And then they created Ringer... I think we cannot expect them to really raise the bar, writing-wise (although I do like My Heart Will Go On).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francy View Post




    Eric Charmelo & Nicole Snyder wrote three season 6 episodes: My Heart Will Go On, Mannequin 3: The Reckoning, and You Can't Handle the Truth. And then they created Ringer... I think we cannot expect them to really raise the bar, writing-wise (although I do like My Heart Will Go On).
    While I actually loved Ringer and regret it not getting a second season The fact these two have only written episodes for my least favourite season of the show to date does not bode well for season nine. Damn the writers for making Cas human and thus making me feel compelled to watch S9 just as I thought I was finally getting out
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    Season 9 will have 23 episodes again.

    https://twitter.com/TheJimMichaels/s...43511466508288

    Let's prepare for the usual filler episode abundance and pacing issues. A shortened season would do this show lots of good, but the CW apparently don't agree.

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    Since I actually prefer 'filler' episodes by far over mytharc episodes, I am not one to complain about this. A season full of Taxi Drivers certainly would not improve the show. Shorter seasons do not protect us from bad writing, and former seasons have proven that, with a good writing team, a 22 episode structure can actually work very nicely for the show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Since I actually prefer 'filler' episodes by far over mytharc episodes, I am not one to complain about this. A season full of Taxi Drivers certainly would not improve the show. Shorter seasons do not protect us from bad writing, and former seasons have proven that, with a good writing team, a 22 episode structure can actually work very nicely for the show.
    Well as you know I have a tendency to prefer myth-arc episodes although I certainly have nothing against 'filler' episodes if they provide us with character insights, which are much needed at that point in the season. However, I think the issue for many fans at least it's mine is the way the show has a tendency to jump from the mytharc to a 'filler' episode without any mention of what came before the worst offender of season eight (although the show has done it before this season) in my eyes for this being LARP and the Real Girl. I much prefer the Grimm approach to stand-alones and the long term arc in that even during 'filler' episodes there tends to be a scene or two that lets the viewer know that things are still bubbling in the background instead of completely ignoring the big picture...

    Plus on top of this Supernaturals tendency to just ignore the mytharc during the MOTWs or 'fillers' means we end up getting episodes like Taxi Driver or The Born Again Identity, which do not work half as well as they could have because the writers are trying to cram a bunch of stuff into one episode when they could have had some of it as a scene or two within previous episodes...

    I doubt we'll agree on this, but yeah I definitely agree with Francy the structuring of this show is a big problem and a shorter season might help in this regard!
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    See, I think the biggest structuring/pacing problems the show ever had occurred in S5 and S8 and the rest of the seasons worked well enough. Sure, some were better than others, but overall I always thought the mytharc/standalone mixture worked pretty well for the show. I don't really mind if the overarching storylines are not mentioned in a standalone episode, mostly because the majority of them actually have some sort of character continuity from the previous episodes, which is all I ever ask for, really. I don't need to know what the angels and demons are up to at all times. Besides, I am convinced that narrative disasters like Taxi Driver or Born-Again Identity would happen, no matter if the seasons have 13 or 23 episodes, because if the writers/showrunners are bad at planning/structuring, the number of episodes really doesn't matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    See, I think the biggest structuring/pacing problems the show ever had occurred in S5 and S8 and the rest of the seasons worked well enough. Sure, some were better than others, but overall I always thought the mytharc/standalone mixture worked pretty well for the show. I don't really mind if the overarching storylines are not mentioned in a standalone episode, mostly because the majority of them actually have some sort of character continuity from the previous episodes, which is all I ever ask for, really. I don't need to know what the angels and demons are up to at all times. Besides, I am convinced that narrative disasters like Taxi Driver or Born-Again Identity would happen, no matter if the seasons have 13 or 23 episodes, because if the writers/showrunners are bad at planning/structuring, the number of episodes really doesn't matter.
    Nah I think it's a pretty consistent problem with this show especially in the later years and in some cases it works and others it doesn't... For both seasons seven and eight the middle of the season has been filled with stand-alone episodes (usually episodes 11-16) with the show then jumping back into the mytharc and trying to cram alot of things into episode 17. For me it would work much better if they made maybe three of those six episode stand-alones to really get into the characters head and then used the other three for more mytharc related purposes rather than cramming. For instance season seven would have served better had they used some of the fillers so there was an episode where

    a) The consequences of Sam's wall was the core of the episode rather than just one part of the episode.

    b) The consequence of Castiel's return and what it means is the core of the episode rather than just apart.

    Sure of course that would mean you'd probably hate episode b, but on the flipside I imagine you'd also get much more enjoyment from watching episode A than you did watching The Born Again Identity. This is just my opinion of course *shrug*
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    I am not arguing that the mytharc elements shouldn't be spread out more, but that could very well be achieved in 22 episodes as well, you don't need to cut down to 13 episodes for that. It really is a matter of planning and not of season length. The episodes right after the mid-season resolution point have always been more standalone in nature. Personally, I love that stretch of episodes in every season and wouldn't want to miss it. Besides, many of the problems could be avoided if they would make mytharc heavy episodes 2 or 3 parters!

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