View Poll Results: Which Hogwarts House do you think is the best?

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Gryffindor

    11 44.00%
  • Hufflepuff

    7 28.00%
  • Ravenclaw

    5 20.00%
  • Slytherin

    5 20.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 153

Thread: Harry Potter The Sorting Hat Quiz!

  1. #21
    Kisses - A Ahm Shere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Rosewood
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 239 Times in 87 Posts

    Default

    Obviously.

    I never got why he was in Gryffindor. He wasn't brave, he didn't have the qualities required of Slytherin, he wasn't smart so that is Ravenclaw off the list...and I doubt even Hufflepuff would have wanted him. It seems that Pettigrew doesn't really belong anywhere.

    It's not a case of Lily and James trusting Peter more than even Lupin. It is more of a case that Peter is the last person on earth that they expected Voldemort to go after in search of the Potter's. If Peter didn't turn over Lily and James, I'm pretty sure Voldemort would have never found them. I'd expect Voldemort to assume the Secret Keeper would be Sirius, probably Dumbledore, maybe Lupin. Certainly not Peter.

    Also, the fact that it keeps going back to racism.

    When you dig deep into Voldemort's past you kind of realise why he is the way he is. Obviously, we all know he couldn't love because he was conceived under the influence of a love potion. His mother died at birth and young Tom went in search of his father. Obviously thinking that his father would have been magical since his mother had died. What he found was that, not only was Tom Senior a muggle - he obviously wanted nothing to do with his son.

    I'm willing to bet that if Tom's father had somehow taken him in once his mother had died, Tom wouldn't have been even half as bad as he turned out.

    A person like that with extreme racial views always has a warped reason why.

    Look at Hitler. Worlds most evil man. Obviously I am in no way condoning what he did. However, when you research into him you find out that he was rejected from an extremely prestigious art school ran by Jews. As much as I hate to admit it, he was extremely good...and I usually don't like art work.

    I make this point because Voldemort is quite obviously based off Hitler. He's the Führer of the Wizarding World. The Death Eaters are the Nazi army so to speak. The point is - however warped their reason is, these two leaders do have a reason to what they do.

    Can it not be argued that the Death Eaters, (and the Nazi's for that matter) are more racist than the leaders? I mean, they have absolutely no reason to have as much hatred towards the muggle borns as Tom Riddle does, even though Tom's reason is pitiful and both leaders went the absolute wrong way about it.

    (I have far too much knowledge of WWII, it's pretty scary. I really should have taken history, not drama.)

    Peter is the one character that I have absolutely no patience for. He was always the odd one of the Marauders. I'm pretty sure James only kept him around for an ego-boost.


    ♥ He never got out of the cockadoodie car! ♥

  2. #22
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    Well if Peter was only there for an egoboost, James wouldn't put the safety of his family in Peter's hands. So he must've been considered a real friend, at least after a while. Lily also talked dearly about him in that letter to Sirius. He was more than an annoying +1, he was a 100% best friend. I always had the feeling that there were only 4 boys in Gryffindor that year and their big secret (well Remus' secret) kept them together.

    But my problem stays that they trusted Peter more than Remus. James and Lily were aware that one of the three was a traitor. They already trusted Sirius so only 2 options were left; Remus and Peter. And it's not like they weren't sure and just picked Sirius, nope they put their everything in the hands of Peter. Leaving Remus to be their only suspect. We know Sirius made the plan (hence his guilt) and in the fandom there is a lot of talk that James probably refused to believe that any of his friends was a traitor and that it was only Sirius who believed that. But I dunno, they were aware what was going on and their little boy was in danger so I doubt they were not fooling around. And everybody kept Remus out of it, also James.

    And while Remus is a bit tense during a war, I doubt anyone thinks that's weird. And I suspect it was less bad before the whole Tonks/Lupin fail anyway. So why suspect Remus? Would it play a role that he is a werewolf? Or is Sirius really bad with logic and think that Remus must be a DE because Peter isn't cool enough to be one? I don't know... but I'm still confused about their deaths. I mean where were their wands? How is it possible that Lily and James didn't have their wands with them at all time so they could always escape and/or defend themselves. Why did nobody ever try to contact Sirius and ask for his side of the story? They just assumed everything and that's it. And why was James' cloak with Dumbledore when James needed that thing more than ever? Oh well...

    About Peter belonging nowhere, well that's why Hufflepuff rules so much, they accept everybody. So he would've had a place. Also I see some Slytherin in him later on, he is cunning and a survivor. He is a bit like a cheap Malfoy, going with any flow that's right at the moment, trying to save himself etc. And I also don't think that he was a horrible kid, if there was no war and he never had to play on a playfield that was too much for him, he would probably be a nice man with a normal family and a boring job. He wasn't suited for war but followed his friends and got lost. Young Peter is often compared with young Neville, so he was probably a bit of a uncool but nice guy. (Although considering what Peter became I always felt bad for Neville when people compare them, Neville is such a great guy.)

    About the racism issue;

    Well both Voldemort and Hitler are not less racist because they have a (not so really good) reason to be angry with muggles/Jews in general. (and even if it's a good reason to be angy at one of a group, it's a bad reason for genocide.) Actually a person like Voldemort knows better, he is raised all these years by muggles, he knows that there are good people around. Same with Snape, yes is father was awful but he probably also met Lily's parents (or at least heard about them) so he knew that not all muggles were like his father. No idea if that makes you more or less racist, but I don't think it makes you look better than the misguided idiots who hate on people they don't know or understand.

    I think most of them were racists, some more ignorant than others. I do think there is one big difference between DE's and nazis and that's that the DE are more exclusive. It's a pretty small group (I know the movies made it looks more impressive, but I suspect it was 20 DE plus some allies vs 50 hogwarts defenders or something.) and most joined themselves because they agreed with the cause. In contrast to Hitler's soldiers who were often forced to fight for him and probably felt more hate for Hitler himself than for the Jews they arrested.

    I always liked that JKR made Voldemort lie about his origins (at least to his DE's) the same way Hitler always tried to ignore he is from Austria and not Germany.
    Last edited by Nina; 15-08-12 at 10:45 AM.

  3. #23
    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    1,188
    Thanked 304 Times in 155 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I can't agree with you about the racism not being a big deal. "Mudblood" is nothing less than a racial slur, and I refuse to believe that throwing a racial slur to anyones head (not to mention it was his best friend) is normal and forgivable. Especially because it was a time where Lily must have felt like the jewish people felt at the start of WWII. JKR played the "Hitler/Nazi" card and didn't back down; the Death Eaters are magical nazis.

    I disagree, while Snape did use that word, it was not intentional. You are making it sound like he did only to hurt Lily and was in clear mind at the moment he did it. You keep forgetting that in the moment Snape called Lily like that. That he was just hurt, humiliated, angry and embarrassed (both emotionally and psychically) publicly. And in front of a girl he loved. So he simple lashed out because he was in a very emotional state. If he was in a clear mind, he wouldn't have called her that way.
    Also, didn't Lily also insulted Severus here. By using the same nickname James and others used for years to hurt him. Lily's insult was just as bad as Severu's. They were both at fault here. But Severus did apologized for that, yet Lily never forgave him. I find it odd that she forgave James for torturing her best friend for years, yet she couldn't forgive Severus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Hardly "good people"; Snape hates Neville because he wished Voldemort would've hunted down Alice & Frank (innocent and good people) instead of Lily. And if Lily would've lived, Snape would've never turned his back on Voldemort.
    I was talking about Severus in school. Not the grown up Severus. I agree that as a adult Severus was a a little unstable person. Probably the product of years of abuse and manipulation by other people. But I think Severus repayed for that. By sacrificing the rest of his life and in the end giving his own very life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Same with Regulus, if Voldemort abused Winky instead... Regulus wouldn't have a problem with Voldemort at all. It's a theme since the Malfoys also turned on Voldemort because he was hurting their loved ones. We're talking here about a bunch of selfish racists who are 'redeemed' by their love for one of Voldemort's victims. But if Voldemort attacked others instead of Lily/Kreacher/Malfoy family; Snape, Regulus and the Malfoys would happily kill innocents because of their 'blood status'.
    This response also goes for Severus and Lily.
    It's important to remember that Voldermort hasn't show his true colors while Regulus was at School. So it wasn't until Regulus joined him and finally saw what he did to Kreacher. That he saw Voldermort for what he really was. I doubt that he knew that he was joining for torturing and murdering. Also Regulus abandoning Voldermort wasn't simple because of what he did Kreacher. But because he saw for what he really was. I really doubt that Regulus gave his life away simple because Voldermort abused Kreacher.
    You'll find out that both in fictional and real world people usually change because of the people they love or are loved by. That doesn't make their change any less real/good then from other people.
    Also the arguments with ''If'' aren't really good to use in arguments. I can say as well that if Ariana never died, Damblodore wouldn't be the man he was today. He would have joined Grindelwald and tortured and kill innocents. The point is we don't know. They could had change on their own, for all we know. Also when you say Malfoys, you also include Draco. I doubt Draco would be able to kill/torture innocents, since he was never able to do it in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    But back to the original topic; Slytherin. We can't say that "Slytherin = Death Eaters" because that's a logic fail but we can't deny that all -1 were Slytherins. Also we can assume that Crabbe and Goyle didn't make it in Slytherin because they are clever and cunning but probably because they are 'pure'. Just like all known racist/purist families are Slytherins and both Slytherin headmasters were racist. The founder of the house only allowed pure-bloods in his house and created a secret chamber with a basilisk to kill innocent students because of their blood status. In the books none of the Slytherins stay to fight or show up to help (with the exception of Slughorn) and the only member of the Order who was in the house of Slytherin was Snape, and he only joined because Lily died and he wanted revenge. Pottermore learned us that all houses have rotten apples, even Hufflepuff. But Slytherin's dark side is significantly darker. Yes it is JKR's over the top bias, but it's also canon. Slytherin values blood purity as much as cleverness, ambition and being cunning. There are probably waves, some periods Slytherin is more racist than other moments and we probably saw Slytherin in one of their worst periods. But racism is part of it's DNA and as long the families/students/teachers of that house don't make a point and scrap that side of the house, the house will stay the black sheep of the school.
    Severus was not a racist when he was Headmaster. This was proven by him not allowing the use of word 'mudblood' in 7th yera. And by protecting all those students. Severus was usually mean to all students, not simple those with impure blood. And why did he let students from his house use it. Well he could have simple not known what they were doing. Or he was not allowed (would have explain him forbidding it while no one saw him). I doubt they went in front of teachers and used those words.
    But aren't the other houses (with the exception of Hufflepuff) also kinda racist. Allowing only smart or brave people can also be racist. Just different kind of racist.
    Yes, Slytherin has more darker history then others. I think the prejudice increased dramatically since Voldermort came to world. If he was in Ravenclaw (or other house) they would have more dark wizard/s/witches. Slytherin only has so many death eaters since Voldermort was in that house. But while those going to Slytherin (some of them) certainly didn't help the reputation of house. The other houses also have their own share of blame. Even at Harry's time at Hogwarts, it was Slytherin vs all other houses. They also helped create dark people since they were prejudice towards them. If the other houses only learned to accept Slytherin, the prejudice would have been gone years before Tom was even born.
    it's not part of their dna, it was how they were raised. Even Voldermort wouldn't be like this today if he had a loving family. I agree the the prejudice must go. But that also goes for all other houses as well. To be peace at Hogwarts, all houses must give up their prejudice and racism.

    And JK did confirm in her interview that majority of Slytherins returned to fight against Voldermort (I know it was not in books, but it's still canon).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    (And they should allow girls to participate in sports.)
    It could simple be that Slytherin girls aren't interested in sports

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I'm aware that I take the racism issue very serious in a fantasy series for childeren, but JKR banged on our heads with it and made Slytherin the pit of all evil. If we would translate it to our world the house of Slytherin would only allow white people or men (with the spare exceptions we never hear about in the actual books. And we all know, it are the exceptions which establish the rule.), which is wrong no matter how you turn it around. Just because she decides to use something we don't know (magical people vs muggles) doesn't make it less bad.
    I agree, and sometimes she went to far. But she probably didn't figure out that she was also writing other characters (Harry etc etc) as racist as well. I doubt the entire house of Slytherin is stupid, evil, full of bullies or it's students resembles pugs, cows and trolls as we see them through Harry's eyes. In her way of showing us that they were no good she went to far. And probably didn't even realize it, or simple didn't care about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    But I feel we're at the point that we've to agree to disagree because we're walking in circles here.
    Ok! I enjoyed debating with you. Thanks!

  4. #24
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    I know what I said about walking in circles (which we probably still do) but I want to react anyway because I'm annoying that way and I enjoy discussing Harry Potter ;

    Racism is a form of discrimination; it's racist when you discriminate, label or put somebody down because of their race/nationality/skin color etc. In the HP books; muggle borns are a 'race', their origins are a reason to view them differently than others. Smart people are not a race, neither a brave people, loyal people or cunning people. Only picking smart people or brave people can be considered discrimination of dumb people and cowards but never racism.

    That's also why "Snivelus" is in a complete different league than "Mudblood", the latter is a racial slur. It's the magical version of the N-word. Snape could've called Lily a billion things, but he went for the racial slur. One he used already for her friend Mary and probably on all other muggleborns. He didn't simply lash out, he choose that word because it would hurt Lily (remember Hermione's reaction in book 2, that word is heavy.) and it puts her down; it's a way of saying that she should shut up because she is less than him, her blood is wrong.

    Also in that same flashback we see Severus trying to kill James; he uses a beta version of sectumsempra on him but it doesn't work yet. If it worked I want to bet on it that Snape had no clue how to fix it since he was obviously not trained in it yet. It would probably end up like Harry vs Draco in book 6 only perhaps more fatal if there was nobody there to fix it. So Snape was hardly an innocent boy at school, he was worse than James could ever be. (Sirius is another case, but then Sirius is also bonkers... probably the incest. Hogwarts seriously needs to work on it's rules. Harry and Ron are both almost expelled for flying in a car but it's okay to try to murder or maim your classmates.) Snape lost it during his time on Hogwarts, not after it.

    And him not using "mudblood" anymore doesn't mean he changed his views, that word probably became a trauma because it stands for him losing Lily. Lily is all he fights for; he doesn't join Dumbledore because he is against genocide... he joins Dumbledore for Lily, He doesn't help Harry because he is an innocent boy, nope until the very end it's for Lily. He changed his actions but not once he showed he changed it because his views changed. It's likely those changed, but we don't know that for sure. Especially because it's never clear if he does things for a reason (earning Malfoy's trust by exampe) or if he spits out his opinion. Fact remains that even if he changed his views in the last years of his life, he still has a history of a serious form of racism. He joined a group to help kill all muggleborns, that's nothing but genocide. So both Sytherin headmasters have a rather extreme history full of (active) racism.

    Funny fact; Phinneas (Black) shares his name with a biblical priest who killed a couple because they were each from a different race and thus mixing blood (no longer pure). Also it means black.... I love JKR's choice of names.

    Snape is a facinating character and he is surrounded by tragedy, some caused by himself and some of it happened to him. But he did a lot of horrible things during his teens, his early twenties and continues to be cruel in his thirties. That he is ready to fight for Lily and tries to make up for her death (an her death only, he never seems to be slightly bothered by his rol in James' death.) doesn't erase his ugly behavior in the past or present. And while his childhood wasn't easy and probably stoppd him from growing up, he is aware of good and evil and intelligent enough to know that what he did and does is wrong, so it can't be used as an excuse for being in favor of genocide or attempted murder. He crossed the line too often and too far to be forgiven for his crimes.
    Last edited by Nina; 15-08-12 at 02:19 PM.

  5. #25
    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    1,188
    Thanked 304 Times in 155 Posts

    Default

    Then racism works the other way around to then. Slytherins are disliked/hated simple for being there. It's like disliking/hating someone based on their nationality.
    The other kinds of discrimination can be just as bad if not worse imo, disliking someone because of their personality for an example.

    Did Severus insult hurt Lily? Yes. Did Lily's insult hurt Severus? Yes. Just because the other one is not racist, does not mean it hurts any less. I can think of many insults that will hurt someone and they are not racist. If Severus really chose that word to say (instead of being the first thing that came to his mind), we can say the same for Lily. She to chose the word she new it will hurt Severus more. She even had a follow up to hurt him even more (the comment about his pants). Choosing the word, the same word James and others used. It meant she had the same opinion as James, that he was not even worthy of existing. And yes Severus did apologize to her. But Lily never apologized for insulting him. And he did lashed out, that what people do when they are in a very strong emotional state. Can you really tell me Severus would have called her that way if the James incident never happened?

    Severus was not worse then James. Severus reaction upon hearing James was to go for his wand. Which shows that James and others attacking him was very common. And don't forget that in Severus opinion it's been some time since he believed James and others almost killed him. And even after that, they still attacked him. Which shows to Severus they are not sorry for what they have done. And probably wouldn't be sorry if they succeeded in killing him. James spell was even worst imo. Causing someone to choke and being unable to get air is worse then some cut. I have asthma, and I can tell you it's tormenting when you can't breathe. From info we know, the worst Severus has done was calling other names and ignoring what his friends have done. While James actually went around school cursing everybody he wanted calling them names. And who knows what else, probably telling them they are not worthy of living. That's way worse then calling someone names, even racist names. IMO James was even worse bully then Draco was.

    Severus was clearly not racist since he grow up. Yes he is a very bitter old man, but he is no racist anymore. Calling it differently is not understanding character imo. There is not one proof that Snape was racist during books while he is grown up. And he clearly changed his view after switching sides. Him only seeing people get killed that he couldn't save. Lily was what changed him. But him saving people was not simple because of Lily, but because it was the right thing to do. Dumblodore was the same (changed by the death of a loved one). The same way Snape is. That doesn't mean the all good they did was simple because of the loved one/s they lost. And yes he has history of racism. But I think him dieing in the end showed that he was not the same boy who joined death eaters. I don't believe in condemning someone simple because of their mistakes they made while young, if they changed later on.

    He didn't say it's all about Lily. He just said always as in he will love her always. And I think it's wrong to condemn someone for a short mistake, when he spend the rest of his life repaying for it. He was not racists when he grow up, and he did helped people because it was the right thing. He was a bitter man, and the past experiences made him unfit to teach. But he did not have a choice, he did the best he could. In the end he was a good man.
    Being abused by parents while growing up. Being hated and abused at Hogwarts by James and others. Nearly getting killed by James and others. Loosing his best friend, the girl he loved to the man who abused him and tried to kill him. Making a mistake of joining Voldermort. Regretting that choice for the rest of his life> Putting him self under Dumblodore manipulations. It's no wander he was bitter as grown up. He had his own mistakes, but in the end he has proven that he was a good man (actions speak louder then words).

  6. #26
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    Then racism works the other way around to then. Slytherins are disliked/hated simple for being there. It's like disliking/hating someone based on their nationality.
    The other kinds of discrimination can be just as bad if not worse imo, disliking someone because of their personality for an example.
    But Slytherins are no race, so it's not racism. And are they really hatred just because they were Slytherins? Did we see characters discriminate Slytherins because they were Slytherins anyway? I don't think we did.

    I also fail to see how racism is less bad than disliking somebody for being dislikable. People can't help what skincolor they have or where they or their parents come from. That's like saying that you can hate somebody for being black but you are not allowed to hate somebody for being really dislikable. Disagree with you on this one.

    Did Severus insult hurt Lily? Yes. Did Lily's insult hurt Severus? Yes. Just because the other one is not racist, does not mean it hurts any less. I can think of many insults that will hurt someone and they are not racist. If Severus really chose that word to say (instead of being the first thing that came to his mind), we can say the same for Lily. She to chose the word she new it will hurt Severus more. She even had a follow up to hurt him even more (the comment about his pants). Choosing the word, the same word James and others used. It meant she had the same opinion as James, that he was not even worthy of existing. And yes Severus did apologize to her. But Lily never apologized for insulting him. And he did lashed out, that what people do when they are in a very strong emotional state. Can you really tell me Severus would have called her that way if the James incident never happened?
    I'm sorry but we're really on different sides here because I see racial slurs (and sexist remarks) as the lowest low there is because you attack people on their race/gender (something that shouldn't matter in the first place) instead of what they do. Severus' remark was him saying that Lily was less of a human being than he is. Besides she was helping him, standing up for him and he threw a racial slur to her head. Only after that she called him "Snivelus". Which is nothing but a nasty nickname, not a way of saying that he is an unworthy human being, like "Mudblood" is.


    About your take on Snape, that we disagree about the interpretation of the character is obvious. And I think that a character like Snape gives that space (to a certain degree at least). It would probably end in an "assumptions vs assumptions" discussion which are pretty pointless.

    But about James vs Snape, you assumed some things which don't fit in canon. We know that it was a two-sided war, Snape tried to hex James in the back quite often according to Remus and also Dumbledore mentioned it being from two sides. James never tried to kill Snape, ever. He even saved Snape's life while risking his own. And sectumsempra is not just a cut, it's a spell that slashes somebody open, with fatal outcome if you don't know what you're doing (like by example Harry when he used it on Draco). James' spells were mean but not dangerous. Just like his remarks were low, but not racist.
    Last edited by Nina; 15-08-12 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #27
    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    1,188
    Thanked 304 Times in 155 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    But Slytherins are no race, so it's not racism. And are they really hatred just because they were Slytherins? Did we see characters discriminate Slytherins because they were Slytherins anyway? I don't think we did.
    Disliking someone because of what they are is a form of racism. Racism isn't all about skin color. There are different kinds of racism. Racism towards certain religion/s, against homosexuals etc.
    Hagrid says in book one that every dark wizard/witch came from Slytherin. He then goes and says every other house is better, as long as it's not Slytherin. L.Jordan saying in book two, that all Slytherins should be expelled, simple because the are Slytherins. Harry thinking how it's outrages to have Slythering as a tri-wizard champion. All three houses being against Slytherin in quidich, no matter who Slytherin plays against. Harry, Ron and Hermione not even thinking about asking Slytherin (anyone from that house) to join them in DA, simple because they think Slytherins are 'evil'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I also fail to see how racism is less bad than disliking somebody for being dislikable. People can't help what skincolor they have or where they or their parents come from. That's like saying that you can hate somebody for being black but you are not allowed to hate somebody for being really dislikable. Disagree with you on this one.
    Just as people can't help in what house they are put on. Yet there are facts (listed above) throughout the books that Slytherins were disliked simple because in what house they are (Fred and George booing that kid the moment the hat said Slytherin). Something that they couldn't change. James line toward Severus that he simple existed is also racist. Since he was being attacked simple for who he was (his personality and the house he was sorted in).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I'm sorry but we're really on different sides here because I see racial slurs (and sexist remarks) as the lowest low there is because you attack people on their race/gender (something that shouldn't matter in the first place) instead of what they do. Severus' remark was him saying that Lily was less of a human being than he is. Besides she was helping him, standing up for him and he threw a racial slur to her head. Only after that she called him "Snivelus". Which is nothing but a nasty nickname, not a way of saying that he is an unworthy human being, like "Mudblood" is.
    But as his friend for so many years Lily knew that that word will hurt him. She was also being nasty. As I already said, there many insults that sound worst without being racist. I can understand Snape, here among others stuff, he was also humiliated by needing a girl to save him (something almost all teenage boys are to), and simple lashed out. He did apologized, and admitted he was wrong to say that. But Lily did not. Yet she did forgive James for torturing her best friend for years, simple for existing (which as I said is also a form of racism). I am sure that Severuas felt awful seeing James and Lily together and probably thought that she never cared about him at all. Both were at faults. But I find it hard to believe Lily was this amazingly forgiving girl (described in books by Lupin etc) yet she never gave Severus a second chance, but did give one to James. That must have felt like a slap in the face for Severus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    About your take on Snape, that we disagree about the interpretation of the character is obvious. And I think that a character like Snape gives that space (to a certain degree at least). It would probably end in an "assumptions vs assumptions" discussion which are pretty pointless.
    I agree. I guess that JK did a good job with the character when there are so many different interpretation of the character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    But about James vs Snape, you assumed some things which don't fit in canon. We know that it was a two-sided war, Snape tried to hex James in the back quite often according to Remus and also Dumbledore mentioned it being from two sides. James never tried to kill Snape, ever. He even saved Snape's life while risking his own. And sectumsempra is not just a cut, it's a spell that slashes somebody open, with fatal outcome if you don't know what you're doing (like by example Harry when he used it on Draco). James' spells were mean but not dangerous. Just like his remarks were low, but not racist.
    Yes Severus was not innocent, he gave as good as he could. But Severus was never racist towards James. While James was racist towards Severus. IMO there is no greater from of racism, then simple hating someone cause they exist. From Snape's reaction of going for his wand the moment he heard James. We can conclude that James and other were usually the ones who started the fights (especially since Severus ignored James and others, and didn't react until they attacked him). And I can't blame Snape for defending himself. Also I am sure I can believe what Remus said. It was an information from biased source. Especially since Remus and others still thought that locking someone into a room with a werewolf as a joke. This is also a guy who sat and did nothing while James was abusing Snape and others. You need to remember that from Severus point of view, James did try to kill him. And then the same guy who in his opinion was trying to kill him was attacking him again. If I was in his place I to wouldn't be nice towards James. I seriously doubt Dunblodore even knew what was happening. He did not know that James and other were animagi and were visiting Remus every full moon. They were actually risking the lives of all the people in castle, by releasing a werewolf to run with him. They risked the lives of so many people. Something that imo is much worse then racist slur. But apparently you can be forgiven for the first and not the second.
    I am not sure that the kids James was calling names and was cursing were grateful to him for not using racist slurs while doing it. Constant abuse of someone can really cause some great trauma in later life.

    I never did like that outlook, that James spells were 'good' while Snape's were evil. Both spells were wrong. But from personal experience I find not being able to breathe much more awful then having cut/s.

    I fell like are are Rita Skeeter, writing book 'Snape: Scoundrel or Saint?'.
    Last edited by Sky; 15-08-12 at 09:44 PM.

  8. #28
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    I'm sorry because you took the time to answer everything, but I'm only going to repeat myself if I reply. So agree to disagree?

  9. #29
    bewitching the mind Mara's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    490
    Thanks
    932
    Thanked 943 Times in 287 Posts

    Default

    Ok butting in on the discussion, I will do the quizzes later if thatīs ok, I am Huffelpuff on Pottermore and I think rightly so because I really am a mixture of Huffelpuff and Slytherin in my personality and thus almost always get Huffelpuff followed by Slytherin as quiz result, although I am really difficult to place. So quizzes later I hope you donīt mind.

    Ok so now on to the interesting discussion where I really donīt want to offend anyone of course just putting my two cents in.

    fist of favorite house, this has to be Slytherin for me and yes partly for the completely biased reason that the Head of House happens to be my favorite character ever but I have more reasons to like Slytherin as a house. I am a person who is drawn to that dark side and I feel that sometimes it is the people who are letīs say a bit more dark then others who find it difficult to fit in. Frankly apart from the racial issue which I will get to in a moment Slytherin seems to me to be the only house who is not all fluffy in a field of pretty little daisies. I like the darkness of that house , the fact that people are drawn to darkness does not necessarily mean they are bad or evil and this is where I think JKR messed up when it comes to Slytherins. Furthermore determination and cunning in itself are not bad qualities actually none of the house qualities are bad it is how you use the qualities you possess that make them either bad or good, so in that sense the fact that īsly Slytherin chose cunningī does not to me immediately suggest evil. Another thing is that we see Slytherin in a time of war or pre war both in the time of harry as in the time of the Maurauders they are always shown as the house that is closest to Voldermort, the house with the most amount of evil wizards favoring pure bloods and so on. But this is a bias that is partially correct of course, but non the less a bias that Slytheirn house has to deal with during the time that It is shown to us in the book. To me the most Slytherin carachter in the books is Slughorn the person who likes the good life and knows ways to get it and is determined above all to keep it, slughron is even flawed in the way most Slytherins are shown he is looking after his own hide before anyone elseīs. But Slughorn I think we can agree is far from evil. So as far as Slytherin is the evil house I donīt agree with that notion, Slytheirn is the house for those who can appreciate a good sence of sarcasm (kidding) but siirusly though I think it is good to if you have houses, to have a house for the less fluffy cuddly kind.

    On to the racism issue I can see where you are coming from Nina, I really can and I think it is even a good argument to point out that Salazar Slytherin was racist to an extend but I still donīt see how racism is part of the house. We see the house in time of one or the other of Voldermorts risings, and yes the fact that most death eaters are from slytherin is not a good thing but lets look at it another way. Why was Voldie placed in Slytherin? Because he was really really evil at 11 years old already, I donīt think so he was placed in Slytherin because he desperately wanted to prove himself and becasue of his pride in being a wizard, which later became obsessive pride in being a pure blood wizard (or so he wanted to seem) same goes for Snape in a way coming from a broken and abusive home he wanted to prove himself to belong somewhere didnīt the hat detect a strong desire to prove himself in Harry too and considered to place him in Slytherin on that reason? Could Voldie not be placed in some other house? I think he could I mean you do need some courage to take over the world and he obviously wanted to learn as much as he could so he could have been placed in Ravenclaw as well what would have happened if Voldie was placed in another house, naturally he would have started gathering followers in that house and by the time Harry arrived at school the house Voldie was in would have been probably the house that produced the most evil wizards Voldie and his followers. I donīt think I am making my point clear but anyway I think that when it comes to racism essentially Volderort is racist and his drath eaters not the house in itself.

    Now to the Snape/Lily part of the discussion. Now I love Snape to bits and more bits but he is a sarcastic bastard with anger management issues and the emotional maturity of less then a tea spoon. Hence why I love him so much. I think that I am the only Snape fan in the world probably that will answer the question of did Lily need to forgive him for calling her a Mudblood with No, no way not in a million years no.

    Consider Lilyīs perspective, Snape to her is her first introduction to the wizarding world, the first person who does not find her weird but on the contrary finds her fascinating. He is to her I think sort of her brother her confidant in those years prior to Hogwarts, the conversation that we see in Snapeīs memory clearly shows Lily relying on the information Snape gives her and show Snape already having tendencies towards the pure blood are better way of thinking. What does he tell her? I canīt believe you are a mugleborn you are so good with magic or something to that extend, he softens his views for her sake but he doesn’t change them. Then Hogwarts comes along and of course surrounded by other wizards an withes Lily makes other friends that is (sadly at times) what happens in high school you can consider our self extremely lucky if you walk into high school with the same friends that you walk out of high school with. Especially in that age, still she obviously cares enough for Snape to continue the friendship they have anyway. She defends him to her other friends and tries to make him see where he is going, the conversation they are having right before the Mudblood incident is to me very telling, he is only thinking about how to get her as far away from James as possible, probably seeing the same behavior in James as he would have liked to display had he had the nerves for it, and she on the other hand is trying almost desperately to make him see where he is going the funny jokes of his friends are going out of line and are not the same as what the Maurauders do. But he canīt or wonīt see that.

    Now the Mudblood incident I think to her it is a shock that he calls her Mudblood and she in an attempt to hurt him right back revers to calling him Snivelus. I donīt think Lily Evans has heard the word Mudblood directed to her for the first time during her school years, consider the time in which they go to school she must have been called mudblood before. But this is Severus, her friend someone she clearly cares about calling her a Mudblood while she comes to his defense, yes to him it slipped out in a moment of pretty extreme bullying, I think sometimes the extend of James’s bullying is overlooked as well, but that is another issue. To Lily she comes to his defense and gets Mudblood thrown in her face. Now I donīt even think it is the fact that she has been called a mudblood that upsets her so much but the fact that Severus calls her that. What does she say later on when he comes begging for forgivness, she names different reasons for not forgiving him she canīt defend this friendship to her girlfriends anymore ok I agree not the best of reasons but still I can understand that she is tired of defending him while he is still doing things that to her seem wrong and escalating in there, and then what to me is probably the most important part of the converstion when she says that he uses the word mudblood for others like her, (But you call all others mudblood what makes me special? Of course he canīt answer that question.., see emotional range of a teaspoon part…) I think to her that is it, he canīt explain why he is sorry and the fact that he goes as far as calling her a mudblood prooably poves to her that it is a lost cause and she gives up, as people do. Next we donīt know what happened how she got involved with James what happened to Severus after that incident , so it is difficult to say wheter she could have forgiven him in the long run but at that moment when he comes begging for forgiveness no, no way should she forgive him

    I know I just picked out a random point in the discussion here, there is a lot more I would like to comment on because I agree and disagree in equal amount with points being made here, but the question of should Lily forgive him really stood out to me so I grabbed that. Secondly I know I am discussing Lilyīs POV as I see it only, and leaving Snapeīs POV out but this post will become unreadable if I add my thoughts on that. I just wanted to get my two cents in on some points of the discussion may add more later

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Mara For This Useful Post:

    Ahm Shere (16-08-12)

  11. #30
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    On to the racism issue I can see where you are coming from Nina, I really can and I think it is even a good argument to point out that Salazar Slytherin was racist to an extend but I still donīt see how racism is part of the house. We see the house in time of one or the other of Voldermorts risings, and yes the fact that most death eaters are from slytherin is not a good thing but lets look at it another way. Why was Voldie placed in Slytherin? Because he was really really evil at 11 years old already, I donīt think so he was placed in Slytherin because he desperately wanted to prove himself and becasue of his pride in being a wizard, which later became obsessive pride in being a pure blood wizard (or so he wanted to seem) same goes for Snape in a way coming from a broken and abusive home he wanted to prove himself to belong somewhere didnīt the hat detect a strong desire to prove himself in Harry too and considered to place him in Slytherin on that reason? Could Voldie not be placed in some other house? I think he could I mean you do need some courage to take over the world and he obviously wanted to learn as much as he could so he could have been placed in Ravenclaw as well what would have happened if Voldie was placed in another house, naturally he would have started gathering followers in that house and by the time Harry arrived at school the house Voldie was in would have been probably the house that produced the most evil wizards Voldie and his followers. I donīt think I am making my point clear but anyway I think that when it comes to racism essentially Volderort is racist and his drath eaters not the house in itself.
    In the 5th books the sorting hat sings;

    Said Slytherin, "We'll teach just those whose ancestry is purest."
    Said Ravenclaw, "We'll teach those whose intelligence is surest."
    Said Gryffindor, "We'll teach all those with brave deeds to their name,"
    Said Hufflepuff, "I'll teach the lot, and treat them just the same."


    &

    For instance, Slytherin took only pure-blood wizards of great cunning, just like him,
    and only those of sharpest mind were taught by Ravenclaw,
    while the bravest and the boldest went to daring Gryffindor.
    Good Hufflepuff, she took the rest, and taught them all she knew.


    The founder of each house (except Helga Hufflepuff) based the qualification for their house on their own character. Salazar Slytherin found his racist views important enough to make it part of the qualification according to the hat.

    That's also the only explanation I can think of why there are no (or almost no*) muggleborns in the house of Slytherin. Or you should think that muggleborns can't be cunning/clever/ambitious. And it's the only qualification I can think of to explain how two idiots like Crabbe and Goyle got into Slytherin, they are certainly not clever or cunning.

    (*. Sky mentioned that JKR once said in an interviews that there were some muggleborns in Slytherin, in the past. -But it's very rare- But she also said that Voldemort asked Lily to become a Death Eater, which is absurd, so I don't treat her interviews as canon usually. For me only the books and Pottermore are canon, and in the books there was no mention of a muggleborns in Slytherin. But if you do... there were a few in 1000 years.)

    So I miss how the house of Slytherin is not racist, even if most Slytherin students aren't racist. It's an obvious large part of that house, and it's not just bad luck that all the blood purists end up in that house, that's not logical.



    I also disagree that the other houses are only positive and cute, it's quite obvious that all houses have a darker side. Hufflepuffs gang up against people who threaten one of their own, even if it's not fair. (Their behavior to Harry in both book 2 and book 4 come to mind.) Also they have charming students like Zacharias Smith in their house. Ravenclaw is obviously the house of the snobs, the rather obnoxious know-it-alls and the over-archievers who can't play nice with others, not even other Ravenclaws. (There is a reason that the hat wanted to place Hermione in Ravenclaw) and by example Lockhart was a Ravenclaw, hardly a fluffy and cute alumni. While the Gryffindors are show-offs, feel the need to take over control, are rather arrogant and pretty small-minded. Cormac McLaggan was a very obvious Gryffindor student, only he showed the uglier side of Gryffindor.

    Also it's mentioned before, but Gryffindor and Slytherin are not so different, according to the Slytherin letter at Pottermore both founders were trying to get the same students. It's a fact that most great wizards we heard about, came from one of these two houses. They look for the same "greatness". So if Slytherin is edgy, so is Gryffindor. (Or you should find the "no muggleborn" rule edgy, in that case...)

    Also all houses produced dark wizards, Hufflepuff less than others... but even Hufflepuff had a few. All the positive traits can be twisted in something more negative also loyalty. And a person like Lockhart is a great example of what happens when a rational Ravenclaw goes too far and forgets the heart/morality.
    Last edited by Nina; 16-08-12 at 04:49 PM.

  12. #31
    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    1,188
    Thanked 304 Times in 155 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I'm sorry because you took the time to answer everything, but I'm only going to repeat myself if I reply. So agree to disagree?
    No problem. Thank you for the enjoyable discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    (*. Sky mentioned that JKR once said in an interviews that there were some muggleborns in Slytherin, in the past. -But it's very rare- But she also said that Voldemort asked Lily to become a Death Eater, which is absurd, so I don't treat her interviews as canon usually. For me only the books and Pottermore are canon, and in the books there was no mention of a muggleborns in Slytherin. But if you do... there were a few in 1000 years.)
    Not starting another discussion. Just wanted to point out that muggleborns in Slytherin is also mentioned in the books.

    Chapter 23
    "So you aren't wanted, then, Vernon? Or are you on that list under a different name? What house were you in at Hogwarts?"

    "Slytherin," said Harry automatically.

    "Funny 'ow they all thinks we wants to 'ear that." leered Scabior out of the shadows. "But none of 'em can tell us where the common room is."

    "It's in the dungeons." said Harry clearly. "You enter through the wall. It's full of skulls and stuff and its under the lake, so the light's all green,"

    There was a short pause.

    "Well, well, looks like we really 'ave caught a little Slytherin." said Scabior. "Good for you, Vernon, 'cause there ain't a lot of Mudblood Slytherins. Who's your father?"

  13. #32
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    Okay thanks, I stand corrected ,

    but it does't change my original point because it's obvious that Slytherin still filters on muggleborns/blood purity even if they have some exceptions.
    Last edited by Nina; 16-08-12 at 04:29 PM.

  14. #33
    Scooby Gang watcher1006's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    406
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 13 Times in 9 Posts

    Default

    Anyway Voldemort himself started his life as Tom Riddle and was not a pureblood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Also it's mentioned before, but Gryffindor and Slytherin are not so different, according to the Slytherin letter at Pottermore both founders were trying to get the same students. It's a fact that most great wizards we heard about, came from one of these two houses. They look for the same "greatness". So if Slytherin is edgy, so is Gryffindor. (Or you should find the "no muggleborn" rule edgy, in that case...)

    Also all houses produced dark wizards, Hufflepuff less than others... but even Hufflepuff had a few. All the positive traits can be twisted in something more negative also loyalty. And a person like Lockhart is a great example of what happens when a rational Ravenclaw goes too far and forgets the heart/morality.
    My biggest regret about the Harry Potter series is that J.K. Rowling didn't do more with Slytherin House. Severus Snape and Draco Malfoy are well-conceived and multi-dimensional characters, and Sirius Black's family has long and complicated ties to Slytherin, but I feel that she used the house too much as a repository for bad guys. For example she could have made things so much more interesting if she'd created at least some wavering, doubtful Slytherin students who might not have towed the anti-Dumbledore line and who might have enrolled in Harry's Defense Against the Dark Arts class in Book 5 and stood with the students of the other three houses in the Battle of Hogwarts in Book 7.

    At the very beginning when he arrives at Hogwarts in Book 1 the Sorting Hat very seriously considers putting Harry into Slytherin House and tells him he could achieve greatness there. But why? And how? We never get the answers to those questions.

  15. #34
    Kisses - A Ahm Shere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Rosewood
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 239 Times in 87 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by watcher1006 View Post

    At the very beginning when he arrives at Hogwarts in Book 1 the Sorting Hat very seriously considers putting Harry into Slytherin House and tells him he could achieve greatness there. But why? And how? We never get the answers to those questions.
    Because Harry has qualities that Slytherin looked for. Also the fact that Voldemort had transferred some of himself into Harry; the sorting hat saw this in him. He said that Harry could do "great things" in Slytherin. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Obviously we will never know what these great things this could be because Harry was sorted into Gryffindor. Our only hope of finding out is if JK writes something about it on Pottermore.

    He was also a parselmouth; a talent which Salazar Slytherin himself had. If Ron had not told Harry about Slytherin or if he had not asked the Sorting Hat to not place him there...chances are he'd have ended up there.

    I was reading an entry on Pottermore yesterday and JK's new information about Malfoy's childhood which was interesting and relevant.

    Can we really blame Malfoy or the Slytherins for their views? Well...yes, partially. However they grew up with those views, views which are drummed into them from birth. "Pure-blood is by far the best", "Mudbloods are evil/scum of the world", etc. I mean, how many of us have a certain view because of our parents? I know I do, I vote Conservative because my mother does. I was told I had to vote for something because if I didn't, I wouldn't have the right to complain about the country. However I was always given a choice with religion, I wasn't forced to believe in God if I didn't want to. So that's the point - if Malfoy and co. had the choice, if their parents allowed them to make their own decisions about muggle-borns, perhaps they wouldn't be so racist towards them. In this case, I do blame the parents.

    Edit:

    I also like the idea that Draco actually liked Hermione but because of his bigoted father and upbringing...couldn't do anything about it. After Harry/Hermione I'm a Dramione.
    Last edited by Ahm Shere; 16-08-12 at 07:45 PM.


    ♥ He never got out of the cockadoodie car! ♥

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Ahm Shere For This Useful Post:

    Sky (16-08-12)

  17. #35
    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    1,188
    Thanked 304 Times in 155 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by watcher1006 View Post
    Anyway Voldemort himself started his life as Tom Riddle and was not a pureblood.
    My biggest regret about the Harry Potter series is that J.K. Rowling didn't do more with Slytherin House. Severus Snape and Draco Malfoy are well-conceived and multi-dimensional characters, and Sirius Black's family has long and complicated ties to Slytherin, but I feel that she used the house too much as a repository for bad guys. For example she could have made things so much more interesting if she'd created at least some wavering, doubtful Slytherin students who might not have towed the anti-Dumbledore line and who might have enrolled in Harry's Defense Against the Dark Arts class in Book 5 and stood with the students of the other three houses in the Battle of Hogwarts in Book 7.
    Yeah. It would have helped so much if JK put at least one more grown up person (professor etc) from Slytherin to be at least close to Harry, beside Snape. Someone Harry actually liked... Dumblodore for an example...

    Quote Originally Posted by watcher1006 View Post
    At the very beginning when he arrives at Hogwarts in Book 1 the Sorting Hat very seriously considers putting Harry into Slytherin House and tells him he could achieve greatness there. But why? And how? We never get the answers to those questions.
    I agree, I always wanted to hear why would Harry become so great if he was sorted in Slytherin. Especially since JK made it sound that only 'evil' people go there.

  18. #36
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    I can only guess, but I think that Slytherin had to change their "only pure-bloods" policy when most wizard and witches became halfbloods. I don't remember which character or book, but somebody told Harry that most wizards and witches have muggle family these days. If they wanted to stay as big as the other houses*, they had to adjust. It seems very normal for Slytherin students to be halfbloods these days, and it looks like Tom Riddle was no strange exception either, so it was also normal 50 years ago.

    *How do they do that anyway, all houses (almost) the same size? Especially because the small number of students at Hogwarts.


    I echo the need for non-evil/racist Slytherin students in the books, I think it's a pity that Andromeda gets almost no time to balance out her sisters. And while I'm happy Slughorn returned, I would've liked it if he never thought about leaving in the first place. And perhaps some Slytherins in the order.

    Personaly I'm not a big fan of Draco as a character, while he had his moments he wasn't strong enough to be a real rival for Harry beyond the first two books. I wished he had a bit more oomph. Where I have the feeling that James & Severus are real rivals, both intelligent and strong, is Harry pretty much owning Draco in every way possible. Draco was more a tool to show Harry's awesomeness than a real rival. The 6th book being the only exception, only after book 6 came book 7 where Draco didn't do much more than being saved by everybody while his classmates were saving the country. And he was so pathetic that they didn't punish him afterwards, that's no good sign for the rival of the main character. (I still don't get how Lucius escaped punishment, his crimes were a lot worse.)

  19. #37
    Kisses - A Ahm Shere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Rosewood
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 239 Times in 87 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    (I still don't get how Lucius escaped punishment, his crimes were a lot worse.)
    That was actually answered on Pottermore. Lucius is an enormously wealthy man, his whole family for ten generations have been. No Malfoy needs to work. He is also highly influential with the Ministry, I think JK wrote that there was no need for any of the Malfoy's to become Minister of Magic because of how influential they are and how corrupt the Ministry is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pottermore
    The substantial wealth at their disposal ensured them considerable (and much resented) influence at the Ministry for generations to come, though no Malfoy has ever aspired to the role of Minister for Magic. It is often said of the Malfoy family that you will never find one at the scene of the crime, though their fingerprints might be all over the guilty wand. Independently wealthy, with no need to work for a living, they have generally preferred the role of power behind the throne, happy for others to do the donkey work and to take the responsibility for failure. They have helped finance many of their preferred candidates’ election campaigns, which have (it is alleged) included paying for dirty work such as hexing the opposition.
    It also says that Malfoy claims he was under the Imperious curse and he gave names of Death Eaters. If it were anybody else but Malfoy, he'd have ended up in Azkaban. It would have been his name and influence...as well as his lies and help that saved him.

    Abraxas’s son, Lucius, achieved notoriety as one of Lord Voldemort's Death Eaters, though he successfully evaded prison after both Lord Voldemort's attempted coups. On the first occasion, he claimed to have been acting under the Imperius Curse (though many claimed he called in favours from high-placed Ministry officials); on the second occasion, he provided evidence against fellow Death Eaters and helped ensure the capture of many of Lord Voldemort's followers who had fled into hiding.


    ♥ He never got out of the cockadoodie car! ♥

  20. #38
    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    1,188
    Thanked 304 Times in 155 Posts

    Default

    Nina I agree. As I said I would have loved to see at least one character from Slytherin. Who was, you know... nice to others.
    Also agree about Draco. Beside books 1,2 and 6. It seams he only existed so we can know how Harry is awesome and good compared to him.

    Ever since the first book, I always imagined Harry and Draco joining forces in the end. At the end of HBP, when Damblodore tells Draco to chose the right side. I totally expected him to join Harry in book 7. But JK didn't even seam to make them friends even 19 years later. So imo that was one big potential waste of good characterization.

  21. #39
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    Well friends is perhaps a bit too much to ask, but indeed I expected a bit more than what we got. Which is also the reason why I find the epilogue so stupid, everything is sugarcoated in JKR's future. Harry and Dudley visit eachother, Harry and Draco are kind of nice to eachother, Harry names his kid after Snape, everybody dates a Weasley, everybody is still with their first real love and there are plenty of healthy childeren etc. *gag* Most of these things are not even earned, they are just added to make it a super happy ending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahm Shere View Post
    That was actually answered on Pottermore. Lucius is an enormously wealthy man, his whole family for ten generations have been. No Malfoy needs to work. He is also highly influential with the Ministry, I think JK wrote that there was no need for any of the Malfoy's to become Minister of Magic because of how influential they are and how corrupt the Ministry is.

    It also says that Malfoy claims he was under the Imperious curse and he gave names of Death Eaters. If it were anybody else but Malfoy, he'd have ended up in Azkaban. It would have been his name and influence...as well as his lies and help that saved him.
    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about him escaping punishment again after the second war. It's not really canon (JKR interview material) but Harry bailed all three Malfoys out. Draco and Narcissa I understand, both kind of saved him in the last book and they were not very active as Death Eaters, but Lucius? Two wars full of murder and torture, and Harry bails him out as well? WTF dude.

    Also why is that possible? JKR says that the ministry becomes a better place and Kingsley becomes minister after the second war... and one person can still bail out murderers?

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Nina For This Useful Post:

    Ahm Shere (16-08-12)

  23. #40
    Kisses - A Ahm Shere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Rosewood
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 239 Times in 87 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about him escaping punishment again after the second war. It's not really canon (JKR interview material) but Harry bailed all three Malfoys out. Draco and Narcissa I understand, both kind of saved him in the last book and they were not very active as Death Eaters, but Lucius? Two wars full of murder and torture, and Harry bails him out as well? WTF dude.

    Also why is that possible? JKR says that the ministry becomes a better place and Kingsley becomes minister after the second war... and one person can still bail out murderers?
    Ah, right, I get you. Yeah, I can't think of any reason why Harry would bail Lucius out after the second war. I, too, understand Draco and Narcissa. I've never thought about that.


    ♥ He never got out of the cockadoodie car! ♥

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •