View Poll Results: Which Hogwarts House do you think is the best?

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  • Gryffindor

    11 44.00%
  • Hufflepuff

    7 28.00%
  • Ravenclaw

    5 20.00%
  • Slytherin

    5 20.00%
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Thread: Harry Potter The Sorting Hat Quiz!

  1. #41
    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Well friends is perhaps a bit too much to ask, but indeed I expected a bit more than what we got. Which is also the reason why I find the epilogue so stupid, everything is sugarcoated in JKR's future. Harry and Dudley visit eachother, Harry and Draco are kind of nice to eachother, Harry names his kid after Snape, everybody dates a Weasley, everybody is still with their first real love and there are plenty of healthy childeren etc. *gag* Most of these things are not even earned, they are just added to make it a super happy ending.
    Lol Even though there are a lot dark aspects of Harry Potter. It's still books meant for children, so I expected fairy tail kind of ending.

    Second. I always felt that Harry and Draco joining in the end would finally break the racism. having someone as Draco with his kind of history join Harry. It would have sent a powerful message that people can change.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahm Shere View Post
    Because Harry has qualities that Slytherin looked for. Also the fact that Voldemort had transferred some of himself into Harry; the sorting hat saw this in him. He said that Harry could do "great things" in Slytherin. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Obviously we will never know what these great things this could be because Harry was sorted into Gryffindor. Our only hope of finding out is if JK writes something about it on Pottermore.

    He was also a parselmouth; a talent which Salazar Slytherin himself had. If Ron had not told Harry about Slytherin or if he had not asked the Sorting Hat to not place him there...chances are he'd have ended up there.
    Getting all of that but it remains somewhat beside the point - Harry certainly had qualities that may have have suited him for Slytherin, but how and why Slytherin House could have given him greatness, that remains the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    Ever since the first book, I always imagined Harry and Draco joining forces in the end. At the end of HBP, when Damblodore tells Draco to chose the right side. I totally expected him to join Harry in book 7. But JK didn't even seam to make them friends even 19 years later. So imo that was one big potential waste of good characterization.
    And yet one of the most intriguing things happens in Book 7 when Harry and Co. are trapped by the Death Eaters in the house and Draco Malfoy is asked to identify Harry Potter. He turns away and says he can't tell if it's him or not.

    Even though he's Harry's "enemy" I always thought he was Draco was one of J.K. Rowling's most interesting characters.

  3. #43
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    For me it's Gryffindor

    Gryffindor - 14
    Ravenclaw - 10
    Slytherin - 10
    Hufflepuff - 8

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by watcher1006 View Post
    Getting all of that but it remains somewhat beside the point - Harry certainly had qualities that may have have suited him for Slytherin, but how and why Slytherin House could have given him greatness, that remains the question.
    What I always loved about Slughorn was that he was a total Slytherin but without being evil (very rare in the books! ), he gains power and knowledge by pleasing the rich and famous and a lot of networking. Slytherin is the house for the rich and powerful because of all the old families and the old money. And they would be willing to be friends with the famous Harry Potter, so perhaps that's wat the hat means? Having the right friends can get you very far in this world.


    And yet one of the most intriguing things happens in Book 7 when Harry and Co. are trapped by the Death Eaters in the house and Draco Malfoy is asked to identify Harry Potter. He turns away and says he can't tell if it's him or not.

    Even though he's Harry's "enemy" I always thought he was Draco was one of J.K. Rowling's most interesting characters.
    I'm the opposite, I found that very disappointing. Draco refused to make a choice, he was passive and let others decide and take responsibility. If he could, he would've ran away. Besides I suspect he did it mostly with selfish motivations; he was obviously done with Voldemort and wished he would leave and never come back. Harry was the last soldier in the game to defeat Voldemort and get the whole DE circus out of the Malfoy house. Draco never really showed backbone or picked sides, he was pretty much a slightly smarter and less evil version of his pathetic father. I wished he had more of his mother's side of the family, the Black family was perhaps mad but they stood for something and were ready to die for that.

    Now if that moment was followed by Draco finally standing up and making a choice later on in the book, it would be a nice lead in. But this was the highpoint of his arc, which is just sad. He remained the same loser he always was, and that after the promising arc in the 6th book. There is no real growth besides being humbled down after all the humiliation, but that's hardly a great arc.
    Last edited by Nina; 16-08-12 at 11:49 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I'm the opposite, I found that very disappointing. Draco refused to make a choice, he was passive and let others decide and take responsibility. If he could, he would've ran away. Besides I suspect he did it mostly with selfish motivations; he was obviously done with Voldemort and wished he would leave and never come back. Harry was the last soldier in the game to defeat Voldemort and get the whole DE circus out of the Malfoy house. Draco never really showed backbone or picked sides, he was pretty much a slightly smarter and less evil version of his pathetic father. I wished he had more of his mother's side of the family, the Black family was perhaps mad but they stood for something and were ready to die for that.

    Now if that moment was followed by Draco finally standing up and making a choice later on in the book, it would be a nice lead in. But this was the highpoint of his arc, which is just sad. He remained the same loser he always was, and that after the promising arc in the 6th book. There is no real growth besides being humbled down after all the humiliation, but that's hardly a great arc.
    Quick statement...

    While I agree that Draco's character had great potential. I disagree about him being pathetic. He was basically put between two stones, with no way out. He wanted to sell Harry out to save his family, but on the other hand he didn't want to sell Harry out. He was sixteen/seventeen years old. If he sells Harry out, then that means harry and others will be killed. And he didn't want that. But if he didn't sell Harry out, there were great chances Voldermort would kill him and his parents. So under heavy stress, he chose the best he could. That is play passive.

    I agree that his character is mostly shown for laughs (book 3,4 and 5 mostly). I don't think JK every thought that much about his character. The Malfoy manor arc was a perfect opportunity for JK to show us some layers for his character. Him saving the trio, would have been much more impressive. Then him bagging deatheater and Ron punching him.

    But alas his character only existed to show how much Harry is better and more amazing/awesome then him.
    Tho lets admit it, at least he got some redemption arc (even if sucks). Unlike some other characters...

    ps: Happy (late) birthday to Helen McCrory!
    Last edited by Sky; 19-08-12 at 04:00 PM.

  6. #46
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    Draco Malfoy had an important part in J.K. Rowling's scheme although she didn't develop him as well as she may have. In the way he was somewhat like Neville Longbottom - While Neville is a minor character in the early books it always seemed that he was going to have a prominent part later on.

    The reluctance that Draco shows in the basement is akin to that he has in his final confrontation with Dumbledore in Half Blood Prince. In spite of the harm that he's done and his opening the portal for the Death Eaters, he still hasn't succumbed to evil as the Death Eaters have, and Dumbledore knows he can't allow Draco to cross the line by murdering under Voldemort's extortive threats. Dumbledore holds him off by appealing to his doubts just long enough so that Snape can do the killing instead. And of course Harry being witness to the whole encounter from the beginning picks up a key secret that he will use in defeating Voldemort - the it's Draco Malfoy of all people who becomes the master of the Elder Wand by disarming Dumbledore. Indeed, Draco Malfoy had a role to play.

  7. #47
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    I disagree that he was like Neville, Neville had a very obvious role; he was the other kid who could become the Chosen One and indeed it was just waiting for him to grow up and be awesome and we saw little glimps of that in earlier books. Draco had no true role beyond being that annoying kid that Harry has testosteron fights with on school for some extra tension.

    Book 6 gave us all the idea that Draco would become more, but I don't believe that Draco being the master of the elder wand is a big thing. Especially because he never knew he was the master of anything, I suspect that it was for the ~twist~ and because Harry can't beat Snape in a fight, so JKR used an weaker character as the middle person. Which is my opinion only makes Draco look more stupid as a character. He never managed to do anything, the things he did do were often unintentional or he was a passive force in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    Quick statement...

    While I agree that Draco's character had great potential. I disagree about him being pathetic. He was basically put between two stones, with no way out. He wanted to sell Harry out to save his family, but on the other hand he didn't want to sell Harry out. He was sixteen/seventeen years old. If he sells Harry out, then that means harry and others will be killed. And he didn't want that. But if he didn't sell Harry out, there were great chances Voldermort would kill him and his parents. So under heavy stress, he chose the best he could. That is play passive.
    I understand that and I would agree if Draco was a real person, but he is not and the Harry Potter series is not very subtle. I can only think of three characters who grow beyond the stereotypical version of their roles (Harry, Snape & Dumbledore). Even Hermione and Ron are more stereotypical sidekicks than real people. In a series that's more about the characters than the story, his behavior in those scenes would be great. But in the HP series Draco is Harry's rival and not much more than that, and as a rival he fails which makes him look pathetic. His realistic behavior is not there for true realism but as a mirror to show how awesome Harry and his uber cool friends are in the books.

    Especially because;

    The choice doesn't really matter as a statement about his character because that moment is not the final act of Draco Malfoy. After that we get his rather sad attempt to regain his old 'cool' status during the battle of Hogwarts, followed by his BFF Crabbe almost killing them all (read: picking stupid friends is biting him in the butt) and Harry and Ron saving Malfoy while Malfoy clings to Harry. And after that he gets saved by mommy and daddy while his classmates duel DEs to save the country. That's how we say goodbye to Draco, and that's why I call him pathetic. His passive choice in the Malfoy Manor is not followed up by him making a choice or standing up, it's followed by Draco being the biggest loser on the grounds of Hogwarts. And with that JKR swept all attempts to make Draco a realistic kid in the war off the table and made him the opposite of all those heroic kids fighting.


    The strange thing about this all is that JKR wrote Draco into this corner, gave him no real redeeming qualities or a moment to shine, but she did decide to marry him off to another girl because he is too good for Pansy Parkinson. So she must feel something positive for the boy, so why not show it? (Or it's the unintentional sexism showing up again, just like when typical teenage behavior is okay for boys (see: Ron) but awful for girls (see: Lavender).)
    Last edited by Nina; 21-08-12 at 03:43 PM.

  8. #48
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    Nina, will respond to you soon

    Everyone you should really check this out! XD

    EPIC HARRY POTTER SONG

    Hilarious!!! XD

    J.K. Rowling’s Confession Moves the Web
    J.K.Rowling has a confession: The Harry Potter series author wanted Ron Weasley dead.
    Last edited by Sky; 21-08-12 at 03:37 PM.

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  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    Nina, will respond to you soon

    Everyone you should really check this out! XD

    EPIC HARRY POTTER SONG

    Hilarious!!! XD

    J.K. Rowling’s Confession Moves the Web
    J.K.Rowling has a confession: The Harry Potter series author wanted Ron Weasley dead.
    I absolutely love Potter songs. Subscriber to Potter Puppet Pals.

    But I think this one is amazing, Harry Potter in 99 Seconds... Harry Potter in 99 Seconds


    ♥ He never got out of the cockadoodie car! ♥

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  12. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahm Shere View Post
    I absolutely love Potter songs. Subscriber to Potter Puppet Pals.

    But I think this one is amazing, Harry Potter in 99 Seconds... Harry Potter in 99 Seconds
    Lol Priceless I love this things. I never did know that so many things from HP can rhyme. I really like the part when they sang about horcruxes, and the music in the background was great.

  13. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post

    J.K. Rowling’s Confession Moves the Web
    J.K.Rowling has a confession: The Harry Potter series author wanted Ron Weasley dead.
    I wish she killed Ron, most useless character ever. He is like ginger!Harry but less cool and with 6 siblings and no money. And I always thought she did set-up his death in book 1 when he sacrifices himself for Hermione and Harry. And he never really grew, sure when he returned and killed the Voldemort in the amulet that was probably his "growth" but Ron was pretty much the same kid for 7 books; annoying, insecure, bad jokes, less than Harry in everything etc.

    And I'm still mad with him for leaving Harry and Hermione in book 7 after he whined about being hungry the whole time despite Hermione doing her best and him doing nothing. And it was not the first time he let his friends down.

    Also if he died, Hermione could've married somebody who does fit her, or at least respect her completely. I don't believe in "they really like to fight all the time.", he made her cry in pretty much every book. And I dislike JKR's idea that Ron became an auror and helped George in the shop, that would make him a Fred-replacement and since Harry leads the Auror department he would work for Harry. Way to never be anything but second-choice and mediocore.


    I don't really hate him by the way, he is just so blah and I like the Hermione/Harry friendship much more without Ron.


    edit:
    Woops I sound sour, sorry for that! I just really think the series would've been better if he died in book 5, 6 or 7.

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  15. #52
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    I found a new quiz everyone! It's rather long, but still fun

    http://www.personalitylab.org/tests/ccq_hogwarts.htm

    Nina I agree. Draco was supposed to be Harry's arch rival. But he never lived up to that. Instead we get the scenes where Harry (and others) get to humiliate him (Book 4 and 5 ending etc). If JK was going for some kind of parallel here between those two, I never saw that.

    In book 6 we see he is more then just your average bully. But that development was never followed up in the book 7 (in second part mostly). I just wish that JK had him at least say one thing that wasn't ambiguous. Would it be to hard to have him agree with Dumblodore moment before they were interrupted. All we got was Draco being scared and doesn't know what to do.
    This is JK fault since she never allowed Draco to develop on his own. Every moment of his 'development' was out shined by other characters development. In the end of book 6, it was more about Dumblodore, Snape and Harry's emotional state then about Draco. I mean even the sectumsempra incident was more about Harry then Draco.
    While Draco does posses his own personality, unlike some other characters that were/are just fodder. His character was still only used to drive the plot. Every time Harry was feeling bad and/or was shunned by his classmates, we had Draco to insult him. And the other way around.
    Sometimes what characters do in HP doesn't make sense. Like Dumblodore's speech to Draco in book 6. I always found it weird and even disgusting that Dumblodore knew about Draco, yet didn't even lift one finger to help him. His whole plan to save in the end to save Draco, was good. But why the hell didn't he use that plan in the first part of school year. That way Draco wouldn't need to face Voldermort and there was no chance of him reading Draco's mind. And Draco wouldn't have to suffer. But JK needed a character for such a role and she decided to use Draco since he didn't have anything else to do, expect drive a plot forward when needed. While I do understand his behavior in Malfoy manor. I fell like his whole development from book 6 and the first part of book 7 was forgotten. Since we have Draco again going after Harry with Crab and Goyle. For not other reason then to capture Harry to get in Voldermort good side. Which doesn't make sense since he didn't want to have anything to do with Voldermort since book 6. His whole development forgotten, once again because JK needed to show Harry as being this great person who even saves his enemies. I also think JK maybe thought this was symbolic to have Draco, Crab and Goyle vs Harry, Ron and Hermione. And if that is not enough we have once again Draco who gets humiliated. While every student (even younger then Draco) are fighting in the war, we have Draco pleading a death eather. IMO JK is telling us that being a bully is a bad thing and karma will reach them eventually.

    Imo JK never did give much thought about Draco beyond what he needed to do to drive the plot. I don't think she ever out herself in his shoes. Since the some things he has done don't make much sense.
    I do like Draco, we do know more about his personality. But his whole character got trashed, for no other reason then to show us that bad things come to bad people. And show us how Harry is good. Even through imo Draco wasn't bad. If he was, what that make James then. While he does have redeeming qualities, they were never explored. Thus as you said making him completely unrealistic. The only reason why she didn't marry Draco of to Pansy is that she hated Pansy much more then Draco. In one of the interviews she said she based Pansy's character from mean girls from her own school she hated. She also said that she knew what will happen to Daco from the beginning. Makes me wander why she didn't write his character a little better then.

    This is her interview that made a little angry...

    http://mizbean.livejournal.com/67513.html

    JKR: It amuses me. It honestly amuses me. People have been waxing lyrical [in letters] about Draco Malfoy, and I think that's the only time when it stopped amusing me and started almost worrying me. I'm trying to clearly distinguish between Tom Felton, who is a good-looking young boy, and Draco, who, whatever he looks like, is not a nice man. It's a romantic, but unhealthy, and unfortunately all too common delusion of - delusion, "there you go - of girls,a and you [nods to Melissa] will know this, that they are going to change someone. And that persists through many women's lives, 'til their deathbed, and it is uncomfortable and unhealthy and it actually worried me a little bit, to see young girls swearing undying devotion to this really imperfect character, because there must be an element in there, that "I'd be the one who [changes him]." I mean, I understand the psychology of it, but it is pretty unhealthy. So, a couple of times I have written back, possibly quite sharply, saying [Laughter], "You want to rethink your priorities here."
    She never planed to redeem Draco. Maybe the only reason we got him in the epilog was because he has much fans.

    Also I found her info from Pottermore on Draco and Malfoy family quite laughable. Draco thinking about death eaters and their goals at the age of eleven. Trying to see if harry is a new dark wizard who will lead death eaters in the future is absurd imo. Especially for a kid who was scared of dark (first book. JK is showing us that even back then Draco was a coward while Harry was brave). So many generations and JK showed us that every ancestor of Malfoy was ''bad''. It's telling that she considers them all evil since she chose to reveal only bad characters. Why not show us some good if they are there.
    The info of so many generation being bad/evil is simple hilarious and absurd. I get it, evil is in their genes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    (Or it's the unintentional sexism showing up again, just like when typical teenage behavior is okay for boys (see: Ron) but awful for girls (see: Lavender).)
    I agree here as well. I always hated it that Harry always chose Ron side while in school. I also hated how Hermiona was (for some parts) portrayed in book 7. I rally dislike her being suddenly so emotional. Now I wouldn't dislike this so much if it weren't that Ron was always there to comfort her with his big manly hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I wish she killed Ron, most useless character ever. He is like ginger!Harry but less cool and with 6 siblings and no money. And I always thought she did set-up his death in book 1 when he sacrifices himself for Hermione and Harry. And he never really grew, sure when he returned and killed the Voldemort in the amulet that was probably his "growth" but Ron was pretty much the same kid for 7 books; annoying, insecure, bad jokes, less than Harry in everything etc.

    And I'm still mad with him for leaving Harry and Hermione in book 7 after he whined about being hungry the whole time despite Hermione doing her best and him doing nothing. And it was not the first time he let his friends down.

    Also if he died, Hermione could've married somebody who does fit her, or at least respect her completely. I don't believe in "they really like to fight all the time.", he made her cry in pretty much every book. And I dislike JKR's idea that Ron became an auror and helped George in the shop, that would make him a Fred-replacement and since Harry leads the Auror department he would work for Harry. Way to never be anything but second-choice and mediocore.


    I don't really hate him by the way, he is just so blah and I like the Hermione/Harry friendship much more without Ron.


    edit:
    Woops I sound sour, sorry for that! I just really think the series would've been better if he died in book 5, 6 or 7.
    I completely agree with you here. Ron hasn't changed one bit. Even in epilog we see him acting just the same. Ok we get that he is insecure, has a low selfeastem and is jealous. I would be fine with this if it's not the same in every book. Heck it's even in the epilog. I really hated his treatment of Hermione. Him whining about food in book 7 was just disgusting, and if I was there I would had punched him in the face.

    I still have no idea why a girl like Hermione would go for someone like Ron. While it's true that sometimes opposites attract, that kind attraction doesn't lost very long. The only reason why they became and continued to be friends, is because Harry. How they remained together later in life without Harry is a mystery for me. In epilog we see that their relationship remained the same as it was while in school. Which is just not realistic. And once again shows that JK never thought beyond Harry is with Ginny and Hermione is with Ron. I would have rather have Hermione married someone who will respect her and show interest in her work etc. I am with Joss on this, there is no way in hell that couple like this would have ended in anything but a divorce in the real world.

    It also send a bad message to young girls who are reading the books. It's ok to be together with the guy who doesn't respect you.
    I also wander how Harry and Ron even became Aurors without finishing Hogwarts. I can understand Harry why harry became. But Ron as an Auror doesn't make sense. Since firstly, he was never academically on the necessary level. The only way he could became an Auror is in the same way he got into the team in book 6, via Harry. Which is not ok, but it's treated as such since they are ''good''.

    And don't even start me on their children names. I find it very disturbing that they named almost all of them after dead people. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Especially since James Siruis has the same personality as the original James and Sirius.
    Last edited by Sky; 22-08-12 at 10:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    I found a new quiz everyone! It's rather long, but still fun

    http://www.personalitylab.org/tests/ccq_hogwarts.htm
    I think I've done that one before, it said I was a Hufflepuff I think.

    Nina I agree. Draco was supposed to be Harry's arch rival. But he never lived up to that. Instead we get the scenes where Harry (and others) get to humiliate him (Book 4 and 5 ending etc). If JK was going for some kind of parallel here between those two, I never saw that.

    In book 6 we see he is more then just your average bully. But that development was never followed up in the book 7 (in second part mostly). I just wish that JK had him at least say one thing that wasn't ambiguous. Would it be to hard to have him agree with Dumblodore moment before they were interrupted. All we got was Draco being scared and doesn't know what to do.
    Totally agree, I wouldn't even mind if he made the choice to be evil. As long he did something more than hide and look the other way.

    This is JK fault since she never allowed Draco to develop on his own. Every moment of his 'development' was out shined by other characters development. In the end of book 6, it was more about Dumblodore, Snape and Harry's emotional state then about Draco. I mean even the sectumsempra incident was more about Harry then Draco.
    While Draco does posses his own personality, unlike some other characters that were/are just fodder. His character was still only used to drive the plot. Every time Harry was feeling bad and/or was shunned by his classmates, we had Draco to insult him. And the other way around.
    I believe this is one of the real faults of JKR's writing, because it's not only Draco. Most of her character don't develop, or make huge growth off-screen, change because she wants to tell a certain story etc. Even important characters like indeed Draco but also Remus. She decided that she wanted another orphan and *bam* there goes Remus' (and Dora Tonks') character and arc. After building up Remus as a reliable and calm person (to contrast the wolf within) she decides that Harry needs to be alone (without anyone to lean on) and a godchild, so Remus marries somebody he doesn't want to marry (why??? no idea), gets a child during wartime despite not wanting a child (you would expect a smart guy who really doesn't want a kid, would be a bit more careful. Same for a female auror in times of war.), fails to be there for Harry in both book 6 and 7 without a really good reason ... and he dies off screen, just like his wife so the kid could be an orphan. (Most childeren survive but the female auror and the well trained order member die.)

    Sometimes what characters do in HP doesn't make sense. Like Dumblodore's speech to Draco in book 6. I always found it weird and even disgusting that Dumblodore knew about Draco, yet didn't even lift one finger to help him. His whole plan to save in the end to save Draco, was good. But why the hell didn't he use that plan in the first part of school year. That way Draco wouldn't need to face Voldermort and there was no chance of him reading Draco's mind. And Draco wouldn't have to suffer.
    I agree that characters are often acting OOC, just to get the plot in a certain direction. But I understand why Dumbledore didn't contact Draco before in the book, that actually makes sense. It's a huge risk, what if Draco can't be trusted or snaps under pressure? Or what if his control over his mind isn't waterproof? It would blow Snape's cover if the DE found out that Dumbledore knew about the plan. We do see Snape try to contact and guide Draco during the year, so Dumbledore and Snape tried to help.

    But JK needed a character for such a role and she decided to use Draco since he didn't have anything else to do, expect drive a plot forward when needed. While I do understand his behavior in Malfoy manor. I fell like his whole development from book 6 and the first part of book 7 was forgotten. Since we have Draco again going after Harry with Crab and Goyle. For not other reason then to capture Harry to get in Voldermort good side. Which doesn't make sense since he didn't want to have anything to do with Voldermort since book 6. His whole development forgotten, once again because JK needed to show Harry as being this great person who even saves his enemies. I also think JK maybe thought this was symbolic to have Draco, Crab and Goyle vs Harry, Ron and Hermione. And if that is not enough we have once again Draco who gets humiliated. While every student (even younger then Draco) are fighting in the war, we have Draco pleading a death eather. IMO JK is telling us that being a bully is a bad thing and karma will reach them eventually.
    I wonder if it's her own bias/ideas or perhaps she tried to keep it black & white for childeren. It's a series for childeren after all. But indeed, I wonder why she even bothered with the more ambigious side of Draco if she never used it later on?

    Imo JK never did give much thought about Draco beyond what he needed to do to drive the plot. I don't think she ever out herself in his shoes. Since the some things he has done don't make much sense.
    I do like Draco, we do know more about his personality. But his whole character got trashed, for no other reason then to show us that bad things come to bad people. And show us how Harry is good. Even through imo Draco wasn't bad. If he was, what that make James then. While he does have redeeming qualities, they were never explored. Thus as you said making him completely unrealistic. The only reason why she didn't marry Draco of to Pansy is that she hated Pansy much more then Draco. In one of the interviews she said she based Pansy's character from mean girls from her own school she hated. She also said that she knew what will happen to Daco from the beginning. Makes me wander why she didn't write his character a little better then.
    Much more positive traits than his love for his parents, not being able to kill somebody when it's face to face (but he tried to do it in a indirect way) and being pretty smart, she didn't give Draco, so I'm not sure if I agree he isn't bad, he isn't unredeemable evil like Bella or Fenrir but I think he does have a lot of the classic 'bad' characteristics. He bullies, he is a spoiled brat, he is racist, he is extremely vain and selfish, he attempted murder and torture, he is classist, he lacks courage, he stands for nothing except his own family etc. He is a badly written and incomplete character, but what JKR did give us is extremely negative. I understand that fanon!Draco is different from canon!Draco because fans felt the desire to complete this character, but that doesn't change that canon!Draco is a horrible boy (sure, with humanity in him), so the books don't give us any reason to love/like this boy.

    This is her interview that made a little angry...
    I do understand this interview with her, she obviously intended Draco to be everything a good person isn't. She created him to play the role of bad guy, but failed to make him a well rounded character and with that she left the door open for "Draco in Leather Pants", his very own trope. Fanon!Draco stands so far from what she intended the character to be. And her version of Draco is still the real version, no matter how much better he is written in some fanfics.

    Also I found her info from Pottermore on Draco and Malfoy family quite laughable. Draco thinking about death eaters and their goals at the age of eleven. Trying to see if harry is a new dark wizard who will lead death eaters in the future is absurd imo. Especially for a kid who was scared of dark (first book. JK is showing us that even back then Draco was a coward while Harry was brave). So many generations and JK showed us that every ancestor of Malfoy was ''bad''. It's telling that she considers them all evil since she chose to reveal only bad characters. Why not show us some good if they are there.
    The info of so many generation being bad/evil is simple hilarious and absurd. I get it, evil is in their genes
    I didn't really read it as 'evil' but that the Malfoys do have a long history of going with any flow that suits them. Where the Lestranges and most of the Black family members seem to be downright evil, the Malfoys are mostly selfish and self-serving.

    It's not very realistic that a whole family is like that, but it does fit JKR's world where names and families tell more about somebody than his or her own character. I mean the fact that Remus is called Remus Lupin by his parents also makes you wonder if these parents wanted him to be bitten by a werewolf. I can't really be bothered by this, it's a funny bit of extra info/little joke.

    I agree here as well. I always hated it that Harry always chose Ron side while in school. I also hated how Hermiona was (for some parts) portrayed in book 7. I rally dislike her being suddenly so emotional. Now I wouldn't dislike this so much if it weren't that Ron was always there to comfort her with his big manly hands.
    It's wasn't Hermione's emotional moments that bothered me, I can't imagine not crying sometimes when you are hunted down because you have wrong blood, lost, cold, hungry, semi-boyfriend just left, best friend is in a bad mood etc. It's the shaming that bothered me, the same happened before with Cho. Like crying is a bad thing; Cho was a girl who just lost her boyfriend and everybody thinks he just failed at the tournament instead of being murdered. The fact that Harry can't stomach crying girls (who have all the right to cry) bothers me, especially because instead of teaching Harry that other people also have emotions and pain, JKR gives him a girlfriend who doesn't cry (probably because she did spend the war with her parents and most brothers in a safe-house and if something horrible happens to her, Harry is not there for her.).

    I still have no idea why a girl like Hermione would go for someone like Ron. While it's true that sometimes opposites attract, that kind attraction doesn't lost very long. The only reason why they became and continued to be friends, is because Harry. How they remained together later in life without Harry is a mystery for me. In epilog we see that their relationship remained the same as it was while in school. Which is just not realistic. And once again shows that JK never thought beyond Harry is with Ginny and Hermione is with Ron. I would have rather have Hermione married someone who will respect her and show interest in her work etc. I am with Joss on this, there is no way in hell that couple like this would have ended in anything but a divorce in the real world.
    I start to wonder if the magic world knows divorce, all these characters marry so quickly and stay together forever (or die). Also Fleur & Bill didn't live together before their wedding, is the magical world so conservative?

    But yes, free Hermione!

    It also send a bad message to young girls who are reading the books. It's ok to be together with the guy who doesn't respect you.
    I also wander how Harry and Ron even became Aurors without finishing Hogwarts. I can understand Harry why harry became. But Ron as an Auror doesn't make sense. Since firstly, he was never academically on the necessary level. The only way he could became an Auror is in the same way he got into the team in book 6, via Harry. Which is not ok, but it's treated as such since they are ''good''.
    Ron had pretty much the same grades as Harry at school, so if Harry is smart enough, so is Ron. Neville also became an auror (before going to Hogwarts to teach) so I suspect that the kids who did fight in the war and wanted, were allowed to become aurors, no matter the grades at school.

    I agree about the bad message though, that's my major problem with the character Hermione. She seems to live to help Harry and Ron through life but beyond that there is little about her. By example her parents? Wy did she never spend time with them (minus some vacations in the early books)? Why did Harry never go and visit the Grangers? Why the lack of interest in Hermione from the side of the boys? She should've been friends with characters like Ernie or a Ravenclaw, just so she can have some friends who enjoy talking about books and schoolwork with her.

    And don't even start me on their children names. I find it very disturbing that they named almost all of them after dead people. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Especially since James Siruis has the same personality as the original James and Sirius.
    I think Albus Severus is even worse, And the fact that Ginny lost her brother but that none of her kids were named after him but one of her kids is named after a headmaster who despised Harry because he couldn't get over the fact that Lily married James. It's just sad, especially after JKR told us that Luna doesn't stand for Luna Lovegood but it's a "smart" way of naming a daughter after Remus.... Really, Lily Luna is named after Lily Potter and Remus Lupin. Not one name comes from Ginny, every child is named after Harry's loved ones, mentor and Snape (for some unexplained reason). Ron/Hermione is probably a bad couple, but Ginny/Harry doesn't work for sure. It's right in our faces, Ron at least tries to suit Hermione sometimes. Harry doesn't even try, it's all about him in that relation. It's so tragic. This is the happy ending of the hero of the story people, he doesn't have to learn or grow up, nope he just got himself a wife without a backbone.
    Last edited by Nina; 22-08-12 at 01:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Totally agree, I wouldn't even mind if he made the choice to be evil. As long he did something more than hide and look the other way.
    Yes, anything would be better then staying mute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I believe this is one of the real faults of JKR's writing, because it's not only Draco. Most of her character don't develop, or make huge growth off-screen, change because she wants to tell a certain story etc. Even important characters like indeed Draco but also Remus. She decided that she wanted another orphan and *bam* there goes Remus' (and Dora Tonks') character and arc. After building up Remus as a reliable and calm person (to contrast the wolf within) she decides that Harry needs to be alone (without anyone to lean on) and a godchild, so Remus marries somebody he doesn't want to marry (why??? no idea), gets a child during wartime despite not wanting a child (you would expect a smart guy who really doesn't want a kid, would be a bit more careful. Same for a female auror in times of war.), fails to be there for Harry in both book 6 and 7 without a really good reason ... and he dies off screen, just like his wife so the kid could be an orphan. (Most childeren survive but the female auror and the well trained order member die.)
    Poor Remus and Tonks. They got killed for no other reason then to have Harry look sad. I think this are the things we are meant to ignore . Like how did they even fall in love. We have book 5 where there are not even one single hint about this. Then suddenly in book 6, we have depressed Tonks who is head over heals in loved in Lupin

    This is what happens when the author cares more about the plot of story then it's characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I agree that characters are often acting OOC, just to get the plot in a certain direction. But I understand why Dumbledore didn't contact Draco before in the book, that actually makes sense. It's a huge risk, what if Draco can't be trusted or snaps under pressure? Or what if his control over his mind isn't waterproof? It would blow Snape's cover if the DE found out that Dumbledore knew about the plan. We do see Snape try to contact and guide Draco during the year, so Dumbledore and Snape tried to help.
    Yes that all sounds nice and all, but was that the only way. Both Dumblodore and Snape are very intelligent people. When put together, I don't think you can find anyone who is smarter then those two working together. I don' think this was the best they can do. I rather think that Dumlodore had a plan and that there were some unplanned collateral damage. Dumblodore has shown he can and will do bad things when he must.
    He could have simple removed Draco from school at a safe house at the beginning/middle (especially after his first plan almost killed someone), and later brought his parents there two. Draco wouldn't be in danger of snapping under a pressure or have his mind invaded by Voldermort. He also wouldn't try to escape if Dumblodore explained the situation to him and later brought his parents there two. Maybe even putting some spells on the house so he can't escape just in case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I wonder if it's her own bias/ideas or perhaps she tried to keep it black & white for childeren. It's a series for childeren after all. But indeed, I wonder why she even bothered with the more ambigious side of Draco if she never used it later on?
    Yes, and then she ask herself why he has so many fans. If she wanted us to all hate Draco, then why did she gave us book 6, where many people started sympathizing with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Much more positive traits than his love for his parents, not being able to kill somebody when it's face to face (but he tried to do it in a indirect way) and being pretty smart, she didn't give Draco, so I'm not sure if I agree he isn't bad, he isn't unredeemable evil like Bella or Fenrir but I think he does have a lot of the classic 'bad' characteristics. He bullies, he is a spoiled brat, he is racist, he is extremely vain and selfish, he attempted murder and torture, he is classist, he lacks courage, he stands for nothing except his own family etc. He is a badly written and incomplete character, but what JKR did give us is extremely negative.
    Never said he was a good person. I said that he has some reading qualities that were never explored. Qualities that were never fully explored. I tend to give him some (little) free space in book 6, since he was under a lot stress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I understand that fanon!Draco is different from canon!Draco because fans felt the desire to complete this character, but that doesn't change that canon!Draco is a horrible boy (sure, with humanity in him), so the books don't give us any reason to love/like this boy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I do understand this interview with her, she obviously intended Draco to be everything a good person isn't. She created him to play the role of bad guy, but failed to make him a well rounded character and with that she left the door open for "Draco in Leather Pants", his very own trope. Fanon!Draco stands so far from what she intended the character to be. And her version of Draco is still the real version, no matter how much better he is written in some fanfics.
    Never did pay attention to tv tropes. To me that's nonsense, especially since nowadays we have a trope for almost anything.
    It's her own fault. If you create a character that was meant to be disliked. Then why putting him an a situations where people can sympathize with him. Also I think JK went to far in trying to make him bad that it was simple funny to me. Draco before book 6, was a simple bully. He remaindered me of bully's from my own school. And while I didn't like them (I hated them actually ), I never thought they were evil. I know that you can't be accurate when comparing real world people to a fictional characters. But imo Draco always looked to me like standard high school/collage bully. Rich, smart and thinks everyone's are below them. The worst things Draco did before book 6 are calling people names and trying to hex someone. He was no better then James.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I didn't really read it as 'evil' but that the Malfoys do have a long history of going with any flow that suits them. Where the Lestranges and most of the Black family members seem to be downright evil, the Malfoys are mostly selfish and self-serving.
    Yes that's true, but it's important to know that JK only gave info on 'bad' characters. Was it that hard to give us at least one person from Malfoy history who wasn't bad. It's not very realistic at all imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    It's not very realistic that a whole family is like that, but it does fit JKR's world where names and families tell more about somebody than his or her own character. I mean the fact that Remus is called Remus Lupin by his parents also makes you wonder if these parents wanted him to be bitten by a werewolf. I can't really be bothered by this, it's a funny bit of extra info/little joke.
    But that's ridiculous. If Jk was really going with this. Then Snape had every right to judge Harry based on James.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    It's wasn't Hermione's emotional moments that bothered me, I can't imagine not crying sometimes when you are hunted down because you have wrong blood, lost, cold, hungry, semi-boyfriend just left, best friend is in a bad mood etc. It's the shaming that bothered me, the same happened before with Cho. Like crying is a bad thing; Cho was a girl who just lost her boyfriend and everybody thinks he just failed at the tournament instead of being murdered. The fact that Harry can't stomach crying girls (who have all the right to cry) bothers me, especially because instead of teaching Harry that other people also have emotions and pain, JKR gives him a girlfriend who doesn't cry (probably because she did spend the war with her parents and most brothers in a safe-house and if something horrible happens to her, Harry is not there for her.).
    I didn't mean her crying when Ron left. But her acting imo very ooc when she starts saying ''don't say that'' it's not true'' ''it's not true'' after they got back from Luna's father. IMO Hermiona never acted before like that, even when put in difficult situations.
    Totally agree with you. I know Harry didn't know a lot about girls in fifth year. But all he needed was a common sense to know you can't accuse a girl of crying after she recently had her boyfriend killed. And why should harry worry when he found a wife that basically doesn't have her own personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I start to wonder if the magic world knows divorce, all these characters marry so quickly and stay together forever (or die). Also Fleur & Bill didn't live together before their wedding, is the magical world so conservative?

    But yes, free Hermione!
    If that's true, then I can only imagine looks on muggle borns faces when they discover this. You got drunk and married, but can never divorce. The plot used by some dramione fanfiction writers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Ron had pretty much the same grades as Harry at school, so if Harry is smart enough, so is Ron. Neville also became an auror (before going to Hogwarts to teach) so I suspect that the kids who did fight in the war and wanted, were allowed to become aurors, no matter the grades at school.
    Yes while their grades were almost always the same. Harry was almost always portrayed to be better. Plus he killed Voldermort, that probably gets you at the top of the list for jobs. But others, I don't know. They were doing the same thing that was done in ministry while it was corrupted imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I agree about the bad message though, that's my major problem with the character Hermione. She seems to live to help Harry and Ron through life but beyond that there is little about her. By example her parents? Wy did she never spend time with them (minus some vacations in the early books)? Why did Harry never go and visit the Grangers? Why the lack of interest in Hermione from the side of the boys? She should've been friends with characters like Ernie or a Ravenclaw, just so she can have some friends who enjoy talking about books and schoolwork with her.
    That always bugged me to. Thanks heavens for the movies, otherwise I would never know how her parents looked.

    Slightly of-topic. But those images in Hermione's home in movie, are they really pictures of Emma while being little. Or is it some movie trick. I know many actor/actress don't allow to have their personal pictures used for movies.

    Yes it always felt weird that Hermiona basically had no friends beyond Harry and Ron. It seamed that she only existed (especially in earlier books) just to help Harry. But that is JK's fault for writing books in pov. Where we see everything form someone else's eyes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I think Albus Severus is even worse, And the fact that Ginny lost her brother but that none of her kids were named after him but one of her kids is named after a headmaster who despised Harry because he couldn't get over the fact that Lily married James. It's just sad, especially after JKR told us that Luna doesn't stand for Luna Lovegood but it's a "smart" way of naming a daughter after Remus.... Really, Lily Luna is named after Lily Potter and Remus Lupin. Not one name comes from Ginny, every child is named after Harry's loved ones, mentor and Snape (for some unexplained reason). Ron/Hermione is probably a bad couple, but Ginny/Harry doesn't work for sure. It's right in our faces, Ron at least tries to suit Hermione sometimes. Harry doesn't even try, it's all about him in that relation. It's so tragic. This is the happy ending of the hero of the story people, he doesn't have to learn or grow up, nope he just got himself a wife without a backbone.
    Lol I did not know Lily got names after Remus. I always presumed it was after Luna. Ginny never had much of personality. Harry doesn't have to worry about her crying or not understanding quidich. Both Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione don't make any sense. JK probably decided the parings earlier on. So it was pointless to get character development, when the outcome is just the same.

    Only true Ginny haters would agree with this article tho...
    http://toastypineapple.blogspot.com/...h-fire-of.html

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    Beware, Ginny/Harry makes me rage.

    But I do have to say that the "Ginny is a slut" argument makes me rage even more; the girl dated 3 boys in her whole life (she married the 3rd), she never cheated on one and as far as we know she never went further than hand holding and kissing during her time at school. Oh noes, a girl dares to date more than 1 boy in her life.

    I do agree with pretty much all the other critical notes though, her character is without a doubt the biggest victim of JKR's lazy romantic writing. (And that says a lot if you remember Dora Tonks and Remus.) It was so obvious she was created to be Harry's wife since book 2 and to be nothing but his wife. And it gets really horrible in book 6 where she becomes little more than Harry's perfect girlfriend to end with the catastrophic epilogue where we learn that Harry named all their childeren after people who were important to him. She is a trophy for the hero, like Harry was allowed to design a woman and God created Ginny for him.

    -Accepts all his behavior without questions. check.
    -Loves the same sports as him, but he is better in it. check.
    -Is so pretty that every boy wants to date her? check.
    -Makes him a Weasley? check.
    -Never bothers him with silly things like her feelings and dreams? check.
    -Has no friends he doesn't like so he doesn't have to go to birthdays of people he dislikes? check.
    -Does never cry, because girls who cry suck? check.
    -Actualy she can't be girly at all (besides being stunning of course). check.
    -Says always what he wants to hear, even when it's not true? check.
    -Sacrifices her career as an athlete to have childeren in her early twenties? check.
    -And finds a job she can do at home so Harry can live his dream as an auror? check.
    -Always loved him and only him, no other guy ever really crossed her mind. check.
    -Always waits for him? check.

    *shudder*

    And the birth of Ginny Sue is equally bad, how many times did we hear random people worship her without a real reason. Oh look Harry happens to spy on a bunch of Slytherin, what are they talking about? Oh how beautiful Ginny is of course.
    And how she gets away with everything, she shames Hermione for not knowing a lot about quidditch (that's a crime you know!), hates on Fleur without good reasons and hexes people just bcause she can... but that's fierce of course. She is the only bully who gets away with all her behavior, she is never judged by anyone. Actually she is caught and invited for the Slugclub.

    Thankfully she tells very funny jokes..... we never actually hear.


    *sails away in her -very random- Parvati/Harry ship*
    Last edited by Nina; 06-09-12 at 12:41 PM.

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    Sorry for the late replay Nina!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Beware, Ginny/Harry makes me rage.
    LOL, me to Tho not so much since I liked Bonnie Wright in the movies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    But I do have to say that the "Ginny is a slut" argument makes me rage even more; the girl dated 3 boys in her whole life (she married the 3rd), she never cheated on one and as far as we know she never went further than hand holding and kissing during her time at school. Oh noes, a girl dares to date more than 1 boy in her life.
    I agree. Big to this. It's really annoying when certain fans allows their dislike for a character to affect their views to the point of being ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I do agree with pretty much all the other critical notes though, her character is without a doubt the biggest victim of JKR's lazy romantic writing. (And that says a lot if you remember Dora Tonks and Remus.) It was so obvious she was created to be Harry's wife since book 2 and to be nothing but his wife. And it gets really horrible in book 6 where she becomes little more than Harry's perfect girlfriend to end with the catastrophic epilogue where we learn that Harry named all their childeren after people who were important to him. She is a trophy for the hero, like Harry was allowed to design a woman and God created Ginny for him.

    -Accepts all his behavior without questions. check.
    -Loves the same sports as him, but he is better in it. check.
    -Is so pretty that every boy wants to date her? check.
    -Makes him a Weasley? check.
    -Never bothers him with silly things like her feelings and dreams? check.
    -Has no friends he doesn't like so he doesn't have to go to birthdays of people he dislikes? check.
    -Does never cry, because girls who cry suck? check.
    -Actualy she can't be girly at all (besides being stunning of course). check.
    -Says always what he wants to hear, even when it's not true? check.
    -Sacrifices her career as an athlete to have childeren in her early twenties? check.
    -And finds a job she can do at home so Harry can dream his dreams as an auror? check.
    -Always loved him and only him, no other guy ever really crossed her mind. check.
    -Always waits for him? check.

    *shudder*
    It's because Ginny does not have her own personality. She only existed in story to be Harry's ''wife''. Tho I agree that JK messed up big time with this. As you said, Ginny like/dislikes/etc everything Harry does. With this there is never going to be any conflict between them even after they are married.
    It all boils down to JK not knowing how to write good romance. Just look at the other parings. Ron/Hermione still makes me bite my own tongue. Tho I agree that Harry/Ginny is the worse.
    And yes the children names were just horrible. I find it very unrealistic that Ginny would accept to name their child after Snape, but not Fred.
    Lol, maybe she was still out all three time after giving birth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    And the birth of Ginny Sue is equally bad, how many times did we hear random people worship her without a real reason. Oh look Harry happens to spy on a bunch of Slytherin, what are they talking about? Oh how beautiful Ginny is of course.
    And how she gets away with everything, she shames Hermione for not knowing a lot about quidditch (that's a crime you know!), hates on Fleur without good reasons and hexes people just bcause she can... but that's fierce of course. She is the only bully who gets away with all her behavior, she is never judged by anyone. Actually she is caught and invited for the Slugclub.

    Thankfully she tells very funny jokes..... we never actually hear.
    Lol. It's because she wasn't important until book 6. She only get to be important then, because Harry decided he wanted her to be his girlfriend. The reason Ginny is so popular is because Harry's girlfriend needs to be cool. That's why I laughed when I watched the scene between Harry and Hermione in HBP movie. When Harry discuss with Hermione who should he take to slughorn's party, he says he'll find someone 'cool'.
    It's not just Ginny who shames Hermione here. Harry does it as well. And I wanted to scream at him, treating Hermione like that because of stupid sport.
    Lol you see Ginny ''attractiveness'' is so strong, even prejudice Slytherins can help but be attracted to her. She is just that awesome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    *sails away in her -very random- Parvati/Harry ship*
    I am more Harry/Luna fan

    Overall if JK planned from book 1 (probably book 2) to have Ginny as Harry's main love interest. She should have developed Ginny much better. But as I said already, I think it's her not knowing how to write romance is why the this sucks. In book 6, I felt that both Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione were shoved down our throats. Especially harry/Ginny, that came basically out of nowhere. I laughed myself silly every time I read the line where Harry feels great best in his stomach wanting to come outside.

    At least there is some excuse for this, she never did bother to develop Ginny beyond this. But she did try to develop Ron/Hermione, and imo it was just horribly done.
    Nobody can convince me that in the real world a girl like Hermione would marry someone like Ron. The whole opposites attract doesn't work as well. Hermione and Ron were never opposites in the first place imho. That is if you don't count that the only opposite between Hermione and Ron was that Hermione was more mature then Ron. And certainly not in the sense good girl/bad boy opposites attract.
    Ron has treated Hermione horribly trough out the years. He was even the first person who made her cry when she came to Hogwarts. Yet for some unknown reasons Hermione still liked him. And even in the epilog their relationship is still the same. Which is just not logical, but it is also very unrealistic.
    I also have a big problem about not knowing anything about Hermione's parents. What does she do while she is not at Hogwarts. Did she had/has any muggle friends/boyfriends. I also find weird that Hermione would abandon her parents every time just so she can be in the burrow.

    Ron/Hermione pisses me of greatly. I would rather have Hermione married to some random muggle then Ron. Who based on epilog (and his treatment of Hermione during school) will emotionally abuse her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    LOL, me to Tho not so much since I liked Bonnie Wright in the movies.
    Are you an unicorn? I think you are the first (non-G/H shipper) person I met on the webs who does like her in the movies.

    There was so much bad acting in the movies, Emma's eyebrows in the movies 4 and 5 and "HE WAS THEIR FRIEND!!!11!!!1!:" by example. But Bonnie was in a complete different league; no expression, no emotion in the voice, no chemistry with anyone... nada. (IMO at least. )


    I do agree with pretty much everything else, except Luna/Harry because while he did learn to appreciate her and her wisdom, I also had the feeling she made him uncomfortable. Luna deserves somebody who is as open-minded and free as she is, and Harry is certainly not guy. I actually like that she is married to Rolf Scamander and travels all over the world to discover new species. That fits her much better than having a conservative family-situation with Harry, who looks more for a baby-maker who doesn't bother him too much than a real fun wife who challenges him.


    And you're right, Harry also shamed Hermione for her lacking knowledge of quidditch. In the same book he even shamed her for for going to the party with Cormac, when she was hiding from Cormac because he tried to force himself upon her. That's so not cool, Harry often sucks as a friend.

    Harry needs somebody to wake him up, get him out of his own little box. Somebody who doesn't let him get away with his ego and sometimes awful behavior. And while Ginny is a "strong woman" in the books, who picks fights with anyone who crosses her path, she never kicks Harry's butt when they are together. She did in book 5, just like Tonks was great in book 5 but no longer when she got together with Remus.

    I wish pretty much all canon couples were different, while some problems are bigger than others... pretty much all major couples have some nasty issues.

    Fleur/Bill; Love the couple, but it's another version of Beauty and the Beast. And she had to show she was worthy, you could easily twist it and wonder if Bill really loves her since she is from a fancy family and is super stunning. But nope, for a whole book we had to question Fleur's love because she is the "shallow woman".

    Molly/Arthur; so stereotypical, which isn't that bad. But they were the "perfect family" in the books (and pretty much the only featured family), despite the fact that Molly doesn't accept his hobbies and that she does not work even when all her childeren are at school/out of the house and they are poor.

    Remus/Tonks: It's a mystery how JKR messed this one up; but she did it. And it's aweful. Can you imagine the awesomeness if they were written IC and survived (no baby!) and Harry would live with them? They would be a family. Which would give Harry some space as well I think, no need to get the girlfriend pregnant at 22. And if he did, I like to think that Remus and Dora would make fun of Harry's suggestions for the name of the baby, so the baby would end up having a normal name.
    (Also way to go, let's kill the only working mom in the series...)

    Ron/Hermione: True Ron can certainly be considered emotionally abusive. Also Ron doesn't bother to learn anything about Hermione's life. We never see him take Mugglestudies so he can 'get' Hermione better or something. I'm afraid that Hermione's old life with her parents will be ignored, also in the future and she will spend all her family-time with the Weasleys. And there is no way Ron will be happy with being the role as "stay-at-home-dad", not that there is anything wrong with it but Ron is not the type. At least they came up with decent names?

    Harry/Ginny; everything is wrong... every single thing is wrong about them. Such a sad way to say goodbye to my childhood hero.
    Last edited by Nina; 26-08-12 at 09:08 PM.

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    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Are you an unicorn? I think you are the first (non-G/H shipper) person I met on the webs who does like her in the movies.
    Lol, Unicorn at what? It's because I like the actress, I seen her interviews. And she is a really cool person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    There was so much bad acting in the movies, Emma's eyebrows in the movies 4 and 5 and "HE WAS THEIR FRIEND!!!11!!!1!:" by example. But Bonnie was in a complete different league; no expression, no emotion in the voice, no chemistry with anyone... nada. (IMO at least. )
    I agree Bonnie's performance wasn't perfect, but I already liked the actress, so to me it wasn't so bad. Also I think you confused Bonnie with Kristin Stewart Check this out. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll...vkt2o1_500.jpg

    And yeah, it seams Emma's eyebrows in fifth movie were magically enhanced. Why, I have no idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I do agree with pretty much everything else, except Luna/Harry because while he did learn to appreciate her and her wisdom, I also had the feeling she made him uncomfortable. Luna deserves somebody who is as open-minded and free as she is, and Harry is certainly not guy. I actually like that she is married to Rolf Scamander and travels all over the world to discover new species. That fits her much better than having a conservative family-situation with Harry, who looks more for a baby-maker who doesn't bother him too much than a real fun wife who challenges him.
    I agree. Tho I always loved Luna's character and thought she would influence Harry for the better. But you are right, she wouldn't work well with Harry. And probably wouldn't be happy with him after some time.
    I did laughed when movies paired Luna with Neville

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    And you're right, Harry also shamed Hermione for her lacking knowledge of quidditch. In the same book he even shamed her for for going to the party with Cormac, when she was hiding from Cormac because he tried to force himself upon her. That's so not cool, Harry often sucks as a friend.

    Harry needs somebody to wake him up, get him out of his own little box. Somebody who doesn't let him get away with his ego and sometimes awful behavior. And while Ginny is a "strong woman" in the books, who picks fights with anyone who crosses her path, she never kicks Harry's butt when they are together. She did in book 5, just like Tonks was great in book 5 but no longer when she got together with Remus.
    To me at least, I think Harry always was closer to Ron then Hermione. Probably because they were guys. There are many points in story when Harry chose Ron over Hermione. And I don't remember if Harry and Ron ever apologized for treating Hermione that way. At slugs party he also said she deserved that Cormac follow her around trying to kiss her. I think Harry is very arrogant and can sometimes be very self involved. Sometimes he is just so focused at himself, that he doesn't ''see'' those around him. And no matter what he says, I think Harry did think his problems were much more important. He can also be very arrogant, believing everything revolves around him (book 5 etc). Ginny does act 'tough' towards others. But when she is with Harry it's like all her independence floes right out of window. I really hated it when when it was revealed Ginny always loved harry, and was probably never emotionally involved in her past relationships. What JK probably didn't understand is that this doesn't picture Ginny very nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I wish pretty much all canon couples were different, while some problems are bigger than others... pretty much all major couples have some nasty issues.

    Fleur/Bill; Love the couple, but it's another version of Beauty and the Beast. And she had to show she was worthy, you could easily twist it and wonder if Bill really loves her since she is from a fancy family and is super stunning. But nope, for a whole book we had to question Fleur's love because she is the "shallow woman".
    I agree. It's like she has to ''prove'' that she really loves Bill. Which she really had to do in the end of book 6. I also really dislike Molly's treatment of Fleur. I guess Molly would have preferred Fleur to be old fashion. Sit at home cleaning and cooking, like she is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Molly/Arthur; so stereotypical, which isn't that bad. But they were the "perfect family" in the books (and pretty much the only featured family), despite the fact that Molly doesn't accept his hobbies and that she does not work even when all her childeren are at school/out of the house and they are poor.
    My biggest complain is that Molly treats Arthur sometimes very horrible. But still they are introduced as perfect parents (family). I dislike how Arthur looked like a wimp several times because of her. On why didn't she worked. Well maybe she didn't get enough OWLS at school (which if this is true, begs the question how she was able to kill Belatrix? With cooking spells? lol). Or more better explanation is that we were meant to feel sorry for them, since they were poor. JK certainly did a parallel between them and Malfoys in book 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Remus/Tonks: It's a mystery how JKR messed this one up; but she did it. And it's aweful. Can you imagine the awesomeness if they were written IC and survived (no baby!) and Harry would live with them? They would be a family. Which would give Harry some space as well I think, no need to get the girlfriend pregnant at 22. And if he did, I like to think that Remus and Dora would make fun of Harry's suggestions for the name of the baby, so the baby would end up having a normal name.
    (Also way to go, let's kill the only working mom in the series...)
    I hate it that they all had to die, just so we can have another orphan, which Harry can sympathize with. Their relationship also had time skips. We find out they are in love. We find they are married. We find out she is pregnant. Then the baby is born and they are dead. There is nothing between, it's like we were privy only to the big moments, and the rest didn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Ron/Hermione: True Ron can certainly be considered emotionally abusive. Also Ron doesn't bother to learn anything about Hermione's life. We never see him take Mugglestudies so he can 'get' Hermione better or something. I'm afraid that Hermione's old life with her parents will be ignored, also in the future and she will spend all her family-time with the Weasleys. And there is no way Ron will be happy with being the role as "stay-at-home-dad", not that there is anything wrong with it but Ron is not the type. At least they came up with decent names?
    I wouldn't be really surprised if Ron expected/expects Hermione to be home mum. He never did express any interests about Hermione's life at home, and other things. I just find their romance unbelievable. I hate it how JK had everyone marry their school sweetheart. And probably very fast after school has ended. I always pictured Hermione dedicating a few years after school to her carrier. And later having children. That would certainly be in her character.
    But in her hurry to create perfect fairy tail ending. Where they all became one BIG happy family. JK once again sends the message that girls not only should accept emotional abuse, but should also when married sacrifice their carries.

    Did JK ever had some character state why Hermione liked Ron? I don't remember Hermione ever explaining why she fell for Ron. Lol she probably didn't know herself. She loved just because JK wanted her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Harry/Ginny; everything is wrong... every single thing is wrong about them. Such a sad way to say goodbye to my childhood hero.
    I would be more accepting of their crappy romance, if only Ginny was developed more.

    I am not trying to bash JK, she certainly has done an amazing job. But she didn't develop characters very well (probably because she was much older when she decided to write about teenagers).
    Also this was always meant to be the children book/s. So I understand why they lack certain dept. Children don't usually look for such things while reading. I know I didn't the first time I read/watched Harry Potter.
    Last edited by Sky; 27-08-12 at 03:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky View Post
    Lol, Unicorn at what? It's because I like the actress, I seen her interviews. And she is a really cool person.
    I was only talking about her acting, not if she was a nice person. Most HP kids seem super nice, but I won't be upset if I saw some of them never again on the silver screen.

    I agree. Tho I always loved Luna's character and thought she would influence Harry for the better. But you are right, she wouldn't work well with Harry. And probably wouldn't be happy with him after some time.
    I did laughed when movies paired Luna with Neville
    It felt like they were just pairing up the the single ones. It's rather tragic that I have more faith in the marriages of Neville (with Hannah) and Luna (with Rolf) than in the relations of the main characters.


    To me at least, I think Harry always was closer to Ron then Hermione. Probably because they were guys. There are many points in story when Harry chose Ron over Hermione. And I don't remember if Harry and Ron ever apologized for treating Hermione that way. At slugs party he also said she deserved that Cormac follow her around trying to kiss her. I think Harry is very arrogant and can sometimes be very self involved. Sometimes he is just so focused at himself, that he doesn't ''see'' those around him. And no matter what he says, I think Harry did think his problems were much more important. He can also be very arrogant, believing everything revolves around him (book 5 etc). Ginny does act 'tough' towards others. But when she is with Harry it's like all her independence floes right out of window. I really hated it when when it was revealed Ginny always loved harry, and was probably never emotionally involved in her past relationships. What JK probably didn't understand is that this doesn't picture Ginny very nicely.
    I don't think Harry is very arrogant, but he does fail to be empathic because his life is all about him. It's why I think that Harry is so well written, his character makes so much sense. Petunia and Vernon never taught him how to love properly, since he is 11 he is super famous and always in mortal danger... people who usually don't bother with students are very interested in him etc. He lives a complete different life than others, he is more important than others in a way. Also the fact that he doesn't trust adults (not very strange if you look at his home-situation and some of his crazy teachers) an his behavior inbook 5 after a traumatic event are super well thought out.

    Doesn't change that these are flaws and that Harry has to learn to change after his life became more normal, which he obviously didn't do in the epilogue. Although I had the feeling his relation with Hermione did change in the last book when it was just them. But before that, oh yes he was very difficult for Hermione and she so deserved a better friend than either Harry or Ron was.


    I agree. It's like she has to ''prove'' that she really loves Bill. Which she really had to do in the end of book 6. I also really dislike Molly's treatment of Fleur. I guess Molly would have preferred Fleur to be old fashion. Sit at home cleaning and cooking, like she is.
    But Fleur is old fashioned, she has no job after the wedding, when we see her again she is taking care of everybody in her house and she has her first child when she is 20. And since Molly was in favor of Bill/Tonks, I doubt Molly wanted a housewife for her sons. I think Molly had trouble with Fleur being a tad more fancy than the Weasleys are and with the fact that Bill (her first child) would get married. Doesn't change that she was aweful in book 6 (same with Ginny and Hermione by the way), realistic but terrible and I wish the three ladies got judged for their behavior. (And not just by Ron who can't resist Fleur's powers.)

    My biggest complain is that Molly treats Arthur sometimes very horrible. But still they are introduced as perfect parents (family). I dislike how Arthur looked like a wimp several times because of her. On why didn't she worked. Well maybe she didn't get enough OWLS at school (which if this is true, begs the question how she was able to kill Belatrix? With cooking spells? lol). Or more better explanation is that we were meant to feel sorry for them, since they were poor. JK certainly did a parallel between them and Malfoys in book 2.
    I never had the feeling that Molly was stupid or lacked talent, her brothers and childeren are all talented, and Molly is a real member of the Order of the Phoenix, although less well trained than the people who didn't spend the last 25 years cooking and cleaning but working and fighting. She can work, but I've the feeling that JKR tried to make a rather conservative point; mothers stay at home! There are three working mothers mentioned, all shown in a negative way. The mother of Cho's friend worked, which was blackmail material for Umbridge in book 5. Neville's mum worked and got tortured till she was insane when Neville was only 1 and Tonks who died doing her job whn her kid was only a couple of weeks old. All the other mothers stay with their childeren.

    I wouldn't be really surprised if Ron expected/expects Hermione to be home mum. He never did express any interests about Hermione's life at home, and other things. I just find their romance unbelievable. I hate it how JK had everyone marry their school sweetheart. And probably very fast after school has ended. I always pictured Hermione dedicating a few years after school to her carrier. And later having children. That would certainly be in her character.
    But in her hurry to create perfect fairy tail ending. Where they all became one BIG happy family. JK once again sends the message that girls not only should accept emotional abuse, but should also when married sacrifice their carries.
    Agreed, Harry wanting a family quick makes sense but it's hard to imagine that somebody like Hermione wouldn't wait some extra years. Hermione seems to have a decent job and all according to JKR, but the focus on childeren and family was too heavy. She made the magical society really conservative. Especially because JKR seems to shame women who don't take care of childeren 24/7. All the positive female characters are teachers or stay-at-home mothers, while the working mums die and the childless women are evil/nasty. Also I feel bad that Ginny had to quit quidditch when she was 21/22 and had to find another job after the birth of her childeren while Harry was allowed to become the youngest head of the auror department.

    Did JK ever had some character state why Hermione liked Ron? I don't remember Hermione ever explaining why she fell for Ron. Lol she probably didn't know herself. She loved just because JK wanted her.
    JKR seems to believe that they like fighting 24/7.

    I would be more accepting of their crappy romance, if only Ginny was developed more.
    Certainly, that would fix the biggest problems.

    I am not trying to bash JK, she certainly has done an amazing job. But she didn't develop characters very well (probably because she was much older when she decided to write about teenagers).
    Also this was always meant to be the children book/s. So I understand why they lack certain dept. Children don't usually look for such things while reading. I know I didn't the first time I read/watched Harry Potter.
    Well I obviously love the HP books so I'll always love JKR for sharing her magical world with us. And she can write, like I already said; she made Harry a realistic and flawed boy who is despite his humanity a real hero. But she got carried away with some ideas and stories, which caused some really bad writing and worse; horrible messages for young girls. And that only gets highlighted by the high amount of OTT praise the HP story sometimes get. I'm tired of hearing that Hermione is a fantastic example for young girls, she could be one but in the end she wasn't one.

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    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I was only talking about her acting, not if she was a nice person. Most HP kids seem super nice, but I won't be upset if I saw some of them never again on the silver screen.
    What I meant was, that my view of her was already colorized. And as such I was biased while watching her acting. I agree she didn't do the best she could, but her overall mistakes were overlooked by me do to my bias. Lets be honest, the character who got the most fans from having a movie counterpart was Draco Malfoy. Tom Felton has a very huge fanbase. And imo he did a good job portraying a bully, looser and a morally conflicting character. His role in Rise of the Apes was also very good imo. Reminded me a little of Draco.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I don't think Harry is very arrogant, but he does fail to be empathic because his life is all about him. It's why I think that Harry is so well written, his character makes so much sense. Petunia and Vernon never taught him how to love properly, since he is 11 he is super famous and always in mortal danger... people who usually don't bother with students are very interested in him etc. He lives a complete different life than others, he is more important than others in a way. Also the fact that he doesn't trust adults (not very strange if you look at his home-situation and some of his crazy teachers) an his behavior inbook 5 after a traumatic event are super well thought out.

    Doesn't change that these are flaws and that Harry has to learn to change after his life became more normal, which he obviously didn't do in the epilogue. Although I had the feeling his relation with Hermione did change in the last book when it was just them. But before that, oh yes he was very difficult for Hermione and she so deserved a better friend than either Harry or Ron was.
    From what I remember even Daniel said in one of his interviews that Harry was a little arrogant. yes JK did good job in portraying him. We know he had a shity childhood. And that those experiences affected him later on. But there were some hints that he was slightly arrogant. Him in book 5 ranting at Hermione and Ron. Which is of course completely understandably, but still little arrogant of him.

    Jk her self also said that Harry is a little arrogant...
    http://web.archive.org/web/200712302...p?sec=3&sec2=1
    Rowling also said that Harry's two worst character flaws are "anger and occasional arrogance"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    But Fleur is old fashioned, she has no job after the wedding, when we see her again she is taking care of everybody in her house and she has her first child when she is 20. And since Molly was in favor of Bill/Tonks, I doubt Molly wanted a housewife for her sons. I think Molly had trouble with Fleur being a tad more fancy than the Weasleys are and with the fact that Bill (her first child) would get married. Doesn't change that she was aweful in book 6 (same with Ginny and Hermione by the way), realistic but terrible and I wish the three ladies got judged for their behavior. (And not just by Ron who can't resist Fleur's powers.)
    But Fleur wasn't like that when she was introduced (book 4). She wasn't even like that in book 6. But later her character was portrayed as such. As if the women who are not old fashioned (stay home mums), are in the wrong.
    Also Molly never pushed Bill towards Tonks and vica versa. That was misdirect JK made. Harry and other presumed she was doing that. While in fact Molly was comforting Tonks about her situation with Remus.

    I agree with the rest. I hated Hermione's, Ginny's and Molly's attitude towards Fleur in book 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    I never had the feeling that Molly was stupid or lacked talent, her brothers and childeren are all talented, and Molly is a real member of the Order of the Phoenix, although less well trained than the people who didn't spend the last 25 years cooking and cleaning but working and fighting. She can work, but I've the feeling that JKR tried to make a rather conservative point; mothers stay at home! There are three working mothers mentioned, all shown in a negative way. The mother of Cho's friend worked, which was blackmail material for Umbridge in book 5. Neville's mum worked and got tortured till she was insane when Neville was only 1 and Tonks who died doing her job whn her kid was only a couple of weeks old. All the other mothers stay with their childeren.
    Never said she was. I just have a slight problem with that. Belatrix was said to be powerful and evil just as Voldermort and was probably second next to him. I find the whole Molly killing Belatrix a little cheesy with all ''Not my daughter you bitch''.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Agreed, Harry wanting a family quick makes sense but it's hard to imagine that somebody like Hermione wouldn't wait some extra years. Hermione seems to have a decent job and all according to JKR, but the focus on childeren and family was too heavy. She made the magical society really conservative. Especially because JKR seems to shame women who don't take care of childeren 24/7. All the positive female characters are teachers or stay-at-home mothers, while the working mums die and the childless women are evil/nasty. Also I feel bad that Ginny had to quit quidditch when she was 21/22 and had to find another job after the birth of her childeren while Harry was allowed to become the youngest head of the auror department.
    Makes you question in what century JK was when writing this. I found the wholy idea of Women needing to be 24 hours next to their children absurd. And I had a problem with JK bias here.
    It's also a little strange with them marrying/having children while being 20/22 years old. Especially when you think about how wizards live much longer then muggles. Making a decision as a 20 years old to spend next 100? years with someone a little illogical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    JKR seems to believe that they like fighting 24/7.
    But that doesn't make a good romance, it doesn't make romance at all. If this is JK's idea of perfect love, then I simple have no words to describe how I feel right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nina View Post
    Well I obviously love the HP books so I'll always love JKR for sharing her magical world with us. And she can write, like I already said; she made Harry a realistic and flawed boy who is despite his humanity a real hero. But she got carried away with some ideas and stories, which caused some really bad writing and worse; horrible messages for young girls. And that only gets highlighted by the high amount of OTT praise the HP story sometimes get. I'm tired of hearing that Hermione is a fantastic example for young girls, she could be one but in the end she wasn't one.
    I agree with you. She did an amazing job and I am grateful for it. I just think sometimes in trying to tell a certain story she went to far without realizing how that will affect certain characters.
    And yes, while Hermione is a very nice girl, I wouldn't really call her a role model for young girls.
    Last edited by Sky; 30-08-12 at 05:05 PM.

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