Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: The Dark Knight Rises

  1. #21
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,729
    Thanks
    236
    Thanked 3,950 Times in 1,856 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyHell View Post
    Heh..King, I was never disagreeing that I believe Bruce to be alive. I've also agreed there is lots of evidence to lead us to that conclusion. All I was arguing was that I think Nolan meant to leave the choice up to the viewer. Bruce was shown to be still in the Bat 5 seconds before the bomb detonated. Since the blast radius was 6 miles, I find it requires some suspension of reality to believe he somehow got away soon enough. Hence, it does cast some doubt on the situation, when combined with how desperately Alfred wants to see Bruce alive and happy and free of being Batman.

    I'm not saying that extinguishes all the other evidence. Just saying that there is a seed of doubt in there, and that is typical Nolan style.
    I think there's more than evidence to lead us to that conclusion; there's no evidence to lead us away from it. What's more, I think Nolan would look at us like we had a cat sticking out of our ears were we to ask him if Bruce was really alive at the end or if Alfred was fantasizing it. It's just not on the table. He did that movie already. Again, if nothing else convinces you, let Hans Zimmer convinces you. No way does a professional filmmaker who deserves to get paid for his work request a score that triumphantly heralds the dawn of a new age of Supporting Character Hallucinations. There would be something clearly melancholy about the whole thing if Nolan were going to, inexplicably, divert into something to maudlin. I'd push all-in on the gross for the entire Nolan trilogy betting that the face value ending was exactly what it appeared to be -- Bruce having escaped into retirement with Selina, leaving Gotham to rebuild and a new Dark Knight to... rise.

    Or put another way, I have to suspend a lot more than mere disbelief to think it's even on the table that there was a 'Bruce fantasy' ending than what modest disbelief I need to accept movie magic timing for Bruce to safely escape the blast. I mean, it took longer than 90 seconds from when the truck crashed, substantially, for the bomb to actually go off on screen, but that's about all the time that was left on it.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 05-08-12 at 05:24 AM.

    Banner by LRae12

  2. #22
    Scooby Gang BloodyHell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    The Great North
    Posts
    513
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 44 Times in 42 Posts

    Default

    So...we've come to the conclusion that there is a whole lot of unbelievable stuff going on in this movie...and that we both believe Bruce to be alive.

    I know what you want is confirmation that either a)everyone who thinks otherwise is delusional and looking too much into things or b)Nolan never intended for it to be up for discussion.

    While I may agree with the first one, I can't agree with the second one. While Inception is "the" movie with the obviously open-ended conclusion, Nolan DOES like showing how our perspective can completely change our reality..we choose what we believe, what we think we see, whether it is truth or not. That has been a theme of every movie I have seen of his. And I think I've seen all of them. So when the last scene with Bruce is seen entirely from the perspective of grief-stricken and guilt-ridden Alfred, along with some other iffy details(including A Tale of Two Cities parallels in which Sydney Carton does indeed die)...I can at least nod to those who see the ending differently than I do. I don't think CN would look at them like they are crazy.
    Last edited by BloodyHell; 05-08-12 at 06:19 AM.
    I have loved you. - Ser Jorah Mormont

  3. #23
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    I know nobody will ever continue Nolan's franchise, sans Nolan, and that the next Batman movie will be a relaunch, but I would watch the John Blake as Batman movie. I don't worry about his finances, though -- remember, the trades that were executed were fraudulent, and proving it was going to take time, and while that might not benefit Bruce's estate directly, it certainly benefits Wayne Enterprises, and I suspect Blake and Fox would manage to connect. I'd be more worried about Blake's actual skill. Comic-Bruce is one of, if not the, greatest hand to hand fighter in the world, trained at various points by Ra's, by Lady Shiva, etc. Movie-Bruce is an initiated member of the League of Shadows and a literal ninja. Both Bruces are among the smartest men in the world as well. John Blake is... not these things. He has a lot of work to do to get caught up.
    Well he needs to train a lot, that's obvious. But if we take the comics as an example, Dick Grayson was a really good Batman. And he is not a ninja or as smart and structured as Bruce. Dick is still an acrobat and became a much more flexible Batman, he used his own style instead of copying Bruce. And I suspect that Blake will do that to, he needs to train himself in what he can do well and create his own style. It will take time and training (and I hope he will indeed get some gadgets and money through Wayne Enterprises eventually.) but he can be a good Batman.


    That said, I don't have to see it. I've little interest in seeing a character Nolan made up because he isn't fond of the Robins being Batman for a movie, despite liking Blake just fine and thinking that it was a smart move to call him 'Robin' and insert him in de movie.

    I prefer to see a Dick as Nightwing movie to be honest, a new Batman movie will be made anyway (rumor is 2016) because DC wants a JLA movie and if the Man of Steel movie doesn't flop completely, JLA will come to the big screen. Which hopefully also brings us a Wonderwoman movie, a well done WW movie to be exact. Just bring the whole DC universe to life; The big three, Birds of Prey, Batfamily members, a much better movie for Green Lantern etc.

    Of course knowing DC, this will end badly.

  4. #24
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,729
    Thanks
    236
    Thanked 3,950 Times in 1,856 Posts

    Default

    I don't think Man of Steel is going to flop. The teaser about had me vibrating through my chair. What they need to do is just marry themselves to Syncopy, where by they I mean Warner/DC Comics. Just work with Legendary and Syncopy on everything, make Nolan the DCCU puppetmaster.

    Banner by LRae12

  5. #25
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    Hmm, I want to see Men of Steel before I can say if I agree with you. I want to know if they manage to capture Superman's tone in that movie. Making a good Batman movie is easier than making a good Superman movie I think. And I fear a bit that they want to copy the atmosphere of Nolan's Batman and use it for the other characters as well. Not sure how well that works with less ambigious characters and if the man who stripped Batman of all cheesy and supernatural features can deal properly with a god-like alien in blue spandex. If Men of Steel is awesome and a real Superman movie and not some Batman movie with Clark Kent instead of Bruce, I'm all for Nolan guiding the DC movie universe.
    Last edited by Nina; 06-08-12 at 01:09 AM.

  6. #26
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,729
    Thanks
    236
    Thanked 3,950 Times in 1,856 Posts

    Default

    Actually, I hope that it has the same "this is happening in the real world" texture of the Nolan "Batman" movies, and I think it can be pulled off after having seen "Chronicle". Besides, there's no spandex -- they are going the New 52 route. In fact, the movie may have determined the New 52 route (it's a form-fitting Kryptonian battle armor now).

    Banner by LRae12

  7. #27
    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,298
    Thanks
    2,280
    Thanked 3,705 Times in 1,276 Posts

    Default

    I stopped reading Morrison's Action Comics after 3 issues, I liked it but it didn't interest me enough to continue. So I missed the "form-fitting Kryptonian battle armor".


    But I'm not sure how well the DC universe fits the realism Nolan brought to Batman. I fear for the forced "dark & gritty = good movie" mentality, because most DC heroes aren't dark like Batman, they are hopeful creatures and true superheroes to the core. And while they shouldn't be a Stu/Sue, am I not in favor of changing these characters just to make them "one of us". I agree with Linkara (the comic reviewer); Marvel heroes are like us, DC heroes (minus crazy Bruce) are like we want to be.

    Though I'm in favor to use Superman to ask questions about morality, involving our world. By example what is the place of a superhero in the system. Superman doesn't have to listen to anyone, can't be caught, can't be punished... he can play God in a world without one. But should he? And where does he stop himself? That's the kind of realism I want to see.
    Last edited by Nina; 06-08-12 at 03:03 PM.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Nina For This Useful Post:

    BloodyHell (06-08-12)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •