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Thread: The Avengers

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    The Avengers has just opened in my city and I'm probably going to see it for the weekend, but I've got a question: there are regular screenings and 3D screenings. I didn't even know The Avengers was in 3D. Is there any point to watching it in 3D or should I just watch the regular version?
    I just saw the regular version (mostly because the 3D glasses hurt) but I couldn't even tell that it was supposed to be in 3D. I definitely don't think I missed out on anything because I only saw the 2D.
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    I saw it in 3D. I don't have have much experience with 3D movies. But it looked very good to me, so I'd recommend seeing it in 3D.

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    I've seen it in both 3D and 2D - Look, i'm not a huge fan of 3D but there is enough in it to warrant wearing the stupid glasses for a couple of hours. Its not like say, Deathly Hallows part 2 or Toy Story 3 where your left wondering where the 3D actually was and why you'd paid so much for your ticket. That being said I enjoyed it more in 2D, just because its a more pure cinema experience and you can watch the film without being conscious of the glasses and effects.

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  6. #24
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    Just got back from seeing it. I'll admit it was good, even though it would have been difficult to make a bad Avengers movie considering all the prep work marvel has been doing with the characters. I do think Hawkeye wound up a bit shortchanged, considering where he was for the majority of the movie, but when he was there they utilized his character well. I think Cap and agent Coulson were my two favorite characters. I saw aspects of Xander in both of them, so that probably has something to do with it. All of the characters were enjoyable though and my favorite scene of the movie I think is one involving the Hulk and a certain evil demi god.

    Like I said, Joss is at his best when he is doing characterization and humor and his more crazy ideas are being reigned in. Avengers proved that and I'm curious to see where they take the sequel. Considering the villain they advertised next, they've certainly got their work cut out for them.

    Now if he would only write Buffy this well...
    Last edited by PointMan; 04-05-12 at 10:40 PM.
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    I thought you would like Coulson. Fury is normally my favorite Avenger's character, but Coulson was definitely great in the movie. Normally I find Cap boring. But in this movies his characterization very well done and he smoothly went into leadership role. IMO all characters were done excellently. Joss showed that he understood their strong points and delivered it well.

  8. #26
    Hellmouth Tourist TaoOfLuxLisbon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    The Avengers has just opened in my city and I'm probably going to see it for the weekend, but I've got a question: there are regular screenings and 3D screenings. I didn't even know The Avengers was in 3D. Is there any point to watching it in 3D or should I just watch the regular version?
    I saw it in 3D and wish I hadn't. I don't have much experience with them and it screwed with my eyes too much getting used to it and I probably missed some good stuff. I don't really think there was any scene that needed 3D. I'll probably go back next week and watch it in 2D.

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    Went to the late showing despite having worked all day and being tired and let me tell you that I was not disappointed. At all.

    Joss does the "balance" act so very very well. I am even a fan of The Hulk now, which I never ever thought would happen. All the characters were allowed to shine, by their own right and nobody took the spotlight (expect maybe that hulk *g*)

    Anyway, I would totally recommend this movie to all action hero fans. It rocked pretty hard. I want to see it again.

    I have seen comments made by various people who were surprised how good this movie is and wishes made that Joss could do Buffy this good. My 2 cents is that he can, he did and he will. Watch season 1-3 of Buffy. Read the last issue of season 8. Joss is the ONLY one who can do Buffy any justice, always has been. The problem isn't that Joss can't do this or that, it's that he isn't there to do this or that. He's been making movies. Great great movies.

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    Indeed. IMO Joss in the only writer who fully understands all characters in BtVS. Which also what showed in Avengers. I'm wondering if this succes increases chances that he will make a Buffy movie. Definitely his credits have increased. But has rhe motivation anf time for it. To mention the actors availability of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koos View Post
    Indeed. IMO Joss in the only writer who fully understands all characters in BtVS.
    Well if that were the case, at least some of the characters would've been OOC some 70% of the time on BtVS, i.e. every time other writers were writing them and Joss didn't bother to rewrite everything. The show would've sucked if Joss had been the only writer to "understand" the characters (whatever that means; they aren't real people to be "understood", they are created by the writers, and some of the other writers have contributed to the creation of the characters as much as Joss did). He wasn't Tom Fontana on Oz, who wrote or co-wrote every single episode of his show (which was easier since there were just 8, admittedly really long, episodes per season).
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  13. #30
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    I haven't watched the movie yet, but wanted to share this:



    Buffy, Xander and Willow watching The Avengers by Jason Welborn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl4ba View Post

    I have seen comments made by various people who were surprised how good this movie is and wishes made that Joss could do Buffy this good. My 2 cents is that he can, he did and he will. Watch season 1-3 of Buffy. Read the last issue of season 8. Joss is the ONLY one who can do Buffy any justice, always has been. The problem isn't that Joss can't do this or that, it's that he isn't there to do this or that. He's been making movies. Great great movies.
    Agree with you on season 1-3, but the last issue of season 8 is, IMO, not a good example. And keep in mind that Joss was 100% responsible for seasons 6 and 7, even if he wasn't directly overseeing everything. I imagine if he had had his way Black Widow would have slept with Loki at some point and Captain America would have been a cameo appearance. Joss is at his best when his more crazy ideas are reigned in.
    Last edited by PointMan; 06-05-12 at 12:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointMan View Post
    Agree with you on season 1-3, but the last issue of season 8 is, IMO, not a good example. And keep in mind that Joss was 100% responsible for seasons 6 and 7, even if he wasn't directly overseeing everything. I imagine if he had had his way Black Widow would have slept with Loki at some point and Captain America would have been a cameo appearance. Joss is at his best when his more crazy ideas are reigned in.
    Is not a good example of what? I suppose that unlike me you may not like it, but I don't see what that has to do with whether Joss "understands" the characters. Is "he understands the characters" the shorthand for "he wrote it the way I liked it"? He's the one who created those characters, so there's nothing to "understand", they're not real people, they're his creations.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl4ba View Post
    Went to the late showing despite having worked all day and being tired and let me tell you that I was not disappointed. At all.

    Joss does the "balance" act so very very well. I am even a fan of The Hulk now, which I never ever thought would happen. All the characters were allowed to shine, by their own right and nobody took the spotlight (expect maybe that hulk *g*)

    Anyway, I would totally recommend this movie to all action hero fans. It rocked pretty hard. I want to see it again.

    I have seen comments made by various people who were surprised how good this movie is and wishes made that Joss could do Buffy this good. My 2 cents is that he can, he did and he will. Watch season 1-3 of Buffy. Read the last issue of season 8. Joss is the ONLY one who can do Buffy any justice, always has been. The problem isn't that Joss can't do this or that, it's that he isn't there to do this or that. He's been making movies. Great great movies.
    Why "season 1-3"? It's not like Joss wrote season 1-3 and then left the show. If he "understood" the characters in season 1-3, then he also "understood" them in 4-7 and 8. If "Joss understands the characters best" then you should certainly be saying we should watch all the episodes and issues he wrote, such as:

    The Freshman
    Hush
    Restless
    Family
    The Body
    The Gift
    Once More, With Feeling
    Conversations with Dead People (for the Buffy scenes, because he wrote them)
    Chosen

    The Long Way Home
    Anywhere But Here
    A Beautiful Sunset
    The Time of Your Life
    Turbulence
    Goddesses and Monsters
    Always Darkest
    Last Gleaming part 1
    Last Gleaming part 2 - the first 7 pages
    Freefall part 1

    City of
    Sanctuary
    Judgment
    Waiting in the Wings
    Spin the Bottle
    Conviction
    A Hole in the World
    Not Fade Away

    Plus, scenes that Joss rewrote, like the Buffy/Spike scene in Hell's Bells or the church scene in Beneath You. And the plot points and moments Joss came up with, like the Buffy/Spike fight/sex in Smashed, or the balcony scene in Dead Things.

    If Joss "understands all the characters best", then we should be able to see it in everything he did. He couldn't have "understood" them all just until the summer of 1999 and then not understood them for the next 11 and half years, until 2011 when he started to understand them again.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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  17. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointMan View Post
    Agree with you on season 1-3, but the last issue of season 8 is, IMO, not a good example. And keep in mind that Joss was 100% responsible for seasons 6 and 7, even if he wasn't directly overseeing everything. I imagine if he had had his way Black Widow would have slept with Loki at some point and Captain America would have been a cameo appearance. Joss is at his best when his more crazy ideas are reigned in.
    You weren't hit in the face with the last issue of 8? With the realization that THAT was Joss? I was. One of the few times that we got to see Buffy all season, imho.

    Yes, I know that Joss is "in charge" and the "buck stops with him" on all of his projects but I think you know what I meant...Joss there everyday and hands on with pen in his hand. Honestly, I never saw any of those tendencies in Joss's shows UNTIL he had other projects going on, sometimes many. So really, again, it is Joss or the lack of Joss to show up and erase some boards? I find after considering everything that I believe it's the latter. No Joss brings a certain suck factor.

    This movie just really did rock super hard didn't it? I am still on cloud nine.

    TTB...it's no big deal, we disagree. It happens.

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    Last edited by cheryl4ba; 06-05-12 at 03:28 AM.

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    Well, we are already off-topic so I will add my two cents and say it drives me crazy when people claim that everything good about Whedon's projects is all Whedon while anything they don't like is someone else's fault.

    Honestly, I never saw any of those tendencies in Joss's shows UNTIL he had other projects going on, sometimes many.
    Personally I think the changes in BTVS after S3 had more to do with David Greenwalt's departure than anything else but it's all guesswork anyway. And in any event I found Angel S5 very boring even with Joss's other projects being cancelled, so the excuse that he had other things on his mind is a little suspect. If anything AtS seemed better to me when it was run mostly by Minear and Greenwalt with little to no Joss-penned episodes.
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  20. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Is not a good example of what? I suppose that unlike me you may not like it, but I don't see what that has to do with whether Joss "understands" the characters. Is "he understands the characters" the shorthand for "he wrote it the way I liked it"? He's the one who created those characters, so there's nothing to "understand", they're not real people, they're his creations.
    If you read the post I was replying to you would see I was referring to the last issue of season 8 not being a great example of "only Joss can do Buffy justice". Theoretically he understands his characters better than anyone else, but if that were true no one could ever accuse a writer of writing their characters poorly.
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    The avengers has made up to 440 million in a few days. If Whedon is not a fool he must have made at least something over 5 million (any idea anyone?) Why would he care about Buffy now? The comic won't make him $2K per month.

    It is just logic the comic will be forgotten if he is anything of a businessman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Shaftoe View Post
    Well, we are already off-topic so I will add my two cents and say it drives me crazy when people claim that everything good about Whedon's projects is all Whedon while anything they don't like is someone else's fault.
    Exactly.

    Personally I think the changes in BTVS after S3 had more to do with David Greenwalt's departure than anything else but it's all guesswork anyway. And in any event I found Angel S5 very boring even with Joss's other projects being cancelled, so the excuse that he had other things on his mind is a little suspect. If anything AtS seemed better to me when it was run mostly by Minear and Greenwalt with little to no Joss-penned episodes.
    If I were to guess, I'd say that any changes in BtVS after S3 were because the characters were out of high school (while any changes in BtVS after S5 were mostly due to the show being in UPN rather than WB), but your theory makes more sense than the idea that it was about Joss, since he was still there as much in seasons 4 and 5 as he was in seasons 1-3.

    I think that AtS was the best when Minear was heavily involved in it. He wasn't for most of season 4 and he wasn't at all in season 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl4ba View Post
    TTB...it's no big deal, we disagree. It happens.
    There are things we can disagree with, such as which episodes or seasons were good or well-written or had good characterizations of this or that character. And then there are facts, such as that Joss was as involved in seasons 4 and 5 as he was in seasons 1-3 and that he was still very involved in seasons 6 and 7 and was directly responsible for a bunch of plot points (like Buffy/Spike, Tara's death or Dark Willow), and that he wrote a bunch of issues in season 8 and was directly responsible for the main arc and for plot points such as Buffy robbing the bank or Buffy sleeping with Satsu.

    So, if you like some of those but dislike some others, I think you should admit that the things you disliked were due to Joss as well, rather than try to blame it on other people. Me and Jack Shaftoe, for instance, disagree pretty much completely when it comes to evaluating the quality of the later seasons and the big plot points and characterization, but he's got the bare facts right.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Slayer cheryl4ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Exactly.


    If I were to guess, I'd say that any changes in BtVS after S3 were because the characters were out of high school (while any changes in BtVS after S5 were mostly due to the show being in UPN rather than WB), but your theory makes more sense than the idea that it was about Joss, since he was still there as much in seasons 4 and 5 as he was in seasons 1-3.

    I think that AtS was the best when Minear was heavily involved in it. He wasn't for most of season 4 and he wasn't at all in season 5.


    There are things we can disagree with, such as which episodes or seasons were good or well-written or had good characterizations of this or that character. And then there are facts, such as that Joss was as involved in seasons 4 and 5 as he was in seasons 1-3 and that he was still very involved in seasons 6 and 7 and was directly responsible for a bunch of plot points (like Buffy/Spike, Tara's death or Dark Willow), and that he wrote a bunch of issues in season 8 and was directly responsible for the main arc and for plot points such as Buffy robbing the bank or Buffy sleeping with Satsu.

    So, if you like some of those but dislike some others, I think you should admit that the things you disliked were due to Joss as well, rather than try to blame it on other people. Me and Jack Shaftoe, for instance, disagree pretty much completely when it comes to evaluating the quality of the later seasons and the big plot points and characterization, but he's got the bare facts right.

    I think maybe we are talking about different things here. My stance is that nobody does it like Joss Whedon. Pen in his hand, on set, giving direction.

    I'm not blaming anyone anything, in this conversation. I am giving kudos to Joss for being the voice and brain behind the brilliance of Buffy. Other showrunners do o.k. but Joss? Brings it. That's my opinion.
    Last edited by cheryl4ba; 06-05-12 at 02:52 PM. Reason: typo

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  24. #39
    Slayer Supporter vampmogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darynthe View Post
    It is just logic the comic will be forgotten if he is anything of a businessman.
    Or a sell-out...

    Joss has been a millionaire for years. The Buffy franchise has made BILLIONS of dollars and Joss got a decent chunk of that. He was never writing the comics for the money which is pittance for him. He was writing them because he still had great affection for the characters and that world (his words) and I can’t see that changing because he’s made a few more million with the Avengers. Honestly, I can sooner see him leaving the comics out of creative exhaustion than I ever could him abandoning them because of money.

    Still haven't had time to see the movie yet but I think it's wonderful that it has done so well. It has done extremely well with critics, audiences seem to have loved it, and it just had an 80 million dollar opening which makes it the 2nd highest grossing opening ever. On top of that it has also broken a boatload of international box office records and is even on set to maybe become the highest grossing film of all time. I'm happy for Joss that it has done so well.
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    I haven't seen the movie. Not sure when I'll get around to that, but I have to say imo Whedons back in an area that he was born to write for.

    Buffy right from the onset was very akin to the type of writing you saw in the best of the comic book medium (often cited was that Buffy had much in common with the Peter Parker set up so to speak) and so I'm not surprised he's got so much positive feedback from this. His trade mark 'Quippy style of humor is a very comic book thing.

    Now If he could only apply that knowledge back to the damn Buffy comics we'd all be happy.

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