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Thread: Buffy Season 9 Issue 4 Discussion ( SPOILERS )

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    Default Buffy Season 9 Issue 4 Discussion ( SPOILERS )

    This is the thread to discuss #4 of S9. No need to use spoiler tags.
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    Yay!

    I hope It's Anita could answer our questions if she reads this thread.

    Does Severin's flashback comfirm 100% that he is the red-glasses guy from #40?

    Does the moment when he touches Buffy and Spike has something that suggests that he "connected" them in some way?

    What do Xander, Willow, Dawn and Andrew do in this issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Its Anita View Post
    I just downloaded the issue!!!

    Spoiler:
    OMG Sev touches both Buffy and Spike at the same time! He gets shot before he could finish though. Nothing happened to both of them just yet, but you know there will be consciences later on. Apart from that, it was the only Spuffy interaction
    Buffy's having dreams/ nightmare in the next issue isn't she. It could be from being touched by Sev, or from being pregnant? Pregnancy does that sort of thing doesn't it?

    I was reading the letters and answers thing at the end of the comic, it had a few interesting points.
    Spoiler:
    Apparently next issuse we 'say goodby to a key character'.
    And in two issues time the buildup for the season starts. The issue Nikki Wood appears. Hmmmmmmmm.
    By saying goodbye to a key character in the next issue, do they mean vampire Dawn from the cover? I'm guessing a character will die in Buffy's nightmare. Because I don't think they'll kill Willow or Xander or Dawn in #5. I don't think it's Andrew either. Unless it's Simone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    Does Severin's flashback comfirm 100% that he is the red-glasses guy from #40?
    Yes, he looks almost the same, I'll scan the pic in a while.
    Does the moment when he touches Buffy and Spike has something that suggests that he "connected" them in some way?
    He almost killed both of them. Actually it's a nice Spuffy moment, Buffy says "Spike...don't" and Spike says her name as well and then we see a teardrop in his eye. The detective saved their lives right before the end.

    What do Xander, Willow, Dawn and Andrew do in this issue?
    Andrew, nothing, we don't know.
    Xander and Dawn watch the news on TV, Xander wanders if he has enough cash for the bail.
    Willow goes and picks up Buffy at the end. Spike was group texting while on boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post
    By saying goodbye to a key character in the next issue, do they mean vampire Dawn from the cover? I'm guessing a character will die in Buffy's nightmare. Because I don't think they'll kill Willow or Xander or Dawn in #5. I don't think it's Andrew either. Unless it's Simone.
    Well on Jeanty's cover for #5 Willow is going away. And issue #5 "harks back" to S8 #5 (everybody's guess - the faerie)
    ~~~

    Severin did something to Spike: one panel Spike's in vamp-face, next panel normal face. They can play the mythology now how they want with Spike: turn human completely or in partially need to recover through internal magic all his vampire aspects . Buffy said she's still a slayer
    Last edited by ubi4soft; 14-12-11 at 12:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubi4soft View Post
    Well on Jeanty's cover for #5 Willow is going away.
    *smacks head* I forgot about that. Would that mean that Willow will be absent from #6 and #7 and then come back in #8?
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    Summary

    The issue begins with a flashback 3 months ago. Severin is killing a vampire while asking it to tell him where Alessandra (the one who sired his girlfriend) is.



    Right when he kills the vampire, Simone comes and tells him to stop looking for vampires and start seeking for a slayer who is responsible for that. Her name is Buffy Summers.



    Then we go back to the present. Severin attacks Buffy while she still can't understand what's happening and why he became the bad guy all of a sudden. He tells her that she destroyed the seed and that's the reason that he had to kill all those vampires and then informs her that she doesn't deserve her power and he's going to take it while Buffy surprised wonders if he can do that.

    Severin continues telling her that when the cops find her amongst all those bodies they will blame her and we see a flashback at the police station receiving an anonymous call about where Buffy Summers was last seen and that she has killed hundreds of vampires.

    The scene changes to the preview pages with Spike and Koh, trying to get to Buffy before it's too late. Koh understands there's a connection between Spike and the slayer and he wants to know more, but Spike refuses to say anything, only that they go way back and that he would do anything to keep her safe. He also admits to himself that after everything that Buffy went through, all she needs is normal which is something he's not. When they reach the land, they see the police cars and Spike understands that probably that is the reason why Buffy wasn't replying to his texts and we see the detective deciding to enter the warehouse where Buffy is.

    We continue with Buffy and Severin who keep on fighting. Severin tells her that he'll take her mojo, something that will make his stronger that hundreds of vampires could make him. Buffy grabs a stake and stakes him but he gets self-healed. Nevertheless, Buffy understands that he healed because he was all charged up, so all she has to do is keep on fighting and hurting him until he uses all the power he has stored inside of him. But the floor breaks and both of them fall in the basement, where Severin has kept there alive dozens of alive vampires/zompires. So he can still charge up himself more to kill her.

    We then see Dawn and Xander into their apartment watching the news that that police is at the warehouse trying to capture Buffy. Xander wonders how much the bail will be and Dawn decides to call Willow. In the meantime, Buffy's roommate (the guy) watches the news as well, while Anaheed(?) searches Buffy's rooms and finds all her weapons. At the same time, the detective enters into the warehouse while Severin and Buffy fight downstairs not with each other, but with the vampires. Buffy outnumbered comments that Severin won't be able to take her powers if she's dead so he decides to "present" his powers at her and how he can kill. While he touches a vampire's head killing him, he is still able to kill others by distance.



    Spike and Koh enter the warehouse finding the detective. Spike tells him that he should go outside letting them handle the thing. They both hear the noise from downstairs and rush to help Buffy. Buffy is in a very bad position, Severin is already sucking her power commenting that "that sparks different".



    Koh and Spike attack, but Severin repels them easily and knocks unconscious Koh. Spike turns his head and looks at Koh so Severin takes the opportunity and grabs Spike as well with his other hand. Right before he kills them, the detective comes and saves the day by shooting Severin 3 times in his chest.




    Next we find Buffy and the detective outside of the warehouse. Ambulances have arrived collecting the corpses. The detective tells Buffy that she won't get a public apology, but they are not after her anymore and Buffy thanks him for shooting Severin. We then see Spike and Koh, both of them still akive. Koh says that Buffy would want to speak to Spike, since he risked his life to save her, but Spike doesn't want to. Next scene Buffy and the detective again and while he offers to give her a ride Willow shows up. She informs Buffy that Spike send group messages telling them about the warehouse, the fireworks and Siphon so Willow decided to go to the scene in case Buffy needed a shoulder to cry on when she would join the power-free club but Buffy says she's still a slayer. (On the other hand, I guess they can go whichever direction they want with Spike, since it seemed like Severin sucked his powers, his vampirism, and "made him human" and just before he killed him the detective saved him..so it can go whichever direction they want from there). Willow also tells Buffy that she was never mad at her because he had still her powers and Willow not, and Buffy promises her that they will find a way to get her magic back.

    The issue and the arc finishes with Severin at the hospital. Simone is also there. She is mad at him because he failed. Severin asks her to charge him a little bit so he can get healed, but Simone refuses saying that now that he has failed, she will need all the power in order to kill Buffy.

    End of issue.
    Last edited by zianna; 14-12-11 at 12:51 PM.

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    So, judging by these pics Spike could be human. He's in the gameface when Severin first touches him but then turns to his human face... Though I doubt it, but it's a possibility. Maybe he's turned human but doesn't want Buffy to know?

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    The tear in Spike's eye broke my heart. I wanna read this issue! And yay for the possibility of having human Spike! I think Buffy is gonna be weaker but not completely normal, and Spike will be someone between a human and a vampire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post
    The tear in Spike's eye broke my heart. I wanna read this issue! And yay for the possibility of having human Spike! I think Buffy is gonna be weaker but not completely normal, and Spike will be someone between a human and a vampire.
    It's not only Spike's teardrop, it's also Buffy's "don't". She talks to Severin, obviously "don't kill him". Like I said, it's a very sweet Spuffy moment.

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    Zianna - Thank you so much!!!

    This is HUGE. If Spike has really turned human, it means that Severin has the ability to turn vamps back into humans. It would be such a big shift in mythology - it would shift the whole paradigm.

    And - it works perfectly on the metaphoric level. If young people "slay" their problems and frustrations, adult people find a way to reinvent them, to find a more collaborative way to deal.

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    someone between a human and a vampire.
    Humpire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zianna View Post
    It's not only Spike's teardrop, it's also Buffy's "don't". She talks to Severin, obviously "don't kill him". Like I said, it's a very sweet Spuffy moment.
    I thought she was talking to Spike. That's heartbreaking. I love that Buffy loves Spike. It makes my tummy all tingly.



    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    Humpire?
    More than ten MPreg Spander fics rushed to my mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    Zianna - Thank you so much!!!

    This is HUGE. If Spike has really turned human, it means that Severin has the ability to turn vamps back into humans. It would be such a big shift in mythology - it would shift the whole paradigm.

    And - it works perfectly on the metaphoric level. If young people "slay" their problems and frustrations, adult people find a way to reinvent them, to find a more collaborative way to deal.



    Humpire?
    I don't think Spike is human. Look at the panel.



    Like I said, they can go whichever direction they want, but they have ruled out becoming human with this panel.
    Last edited by zianna; 14-12-11 at 01:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zianna View Post
    It's not only Spike's teardrop, it's also Buffy's "don't". She talks to Severin, obviously "don't kill him". Like I said, it's a very sweet Spuffy moment.
    I hate to be a negative Nelly here, but just because she didn't want him killed doesn't actually mean anything more then just that imo. Maybe when I've read the issue there will be more, but on the face of it It doesn't seem 'Spuffy' to me.

    This is HUGE. If Spike has really turned human, it means that Severin has the ability to turn vamps back into humans. It would be such a big shift in mythology - it would shift the whole paradigm.
    If and thats a big If he's been turned human I imagine It's only because he's got soul. An ordinary unsouled vamp would just die like the others imo.
    Last edited by sueworld; 14-12-11 at 01:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sueworld View Post
    I hate to be a negative Nelly here, but just because she didn't want him killed doesn't actually mean anything more then just that imo. Maybe when I've read the issue there will be more, but on the face of it It doesn't seem 'Spuffy' to me.
    I'm not a Spuffy, but it seems very Spuffy to me. And sweet.



    If and thats a big If he's been turned human I imagine It's only because he's got soul. An ordinary unsouled vamp would just die like the others imo.
    Spike doesn't feel normal, so he's not a human.


    I thought she was talking to Spike. That's heartbreaking. I love that Buffy loves Spike. It makes my tummy all tingly.
    Nope, she's talking to Severin. Severin had already grabbed both of them, and he was telling Buffy that soon her vampire friend would be dead and she would be powerless. The "don't" is for Severin, don't do it, don't kill him, don't whatever.. Right afterwards Severin tells her "that's right, in 2 seconds this one'll be a corpse".
    Last edited by zianna; 14-12-11 at 01:41 PM.

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    Imo just not letting another character die doesn't automatically equate with romance, sadly.

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    Spike is definitely still a vampire at the end of this issue.

    This was a pretty bad-ass issue, I downloaded it so I didn't have to avoid discussion. I'm glad we basically got straightforward answers early on -- Severin really is glasses guy, he's working for Simone, we have a general idea why (although... that can't last for very long. He is much more powerful than she is).

    As far as the inevitable 'shippy component -- the Dowling/Buffy/Spike love triangle is launched, paint-by-numbers, complete with exactly the early signs of Dowling/Spike bromance I pull out of thin air a few days ago. It's basically like "First Date" all over again, without more than even superficial variation. Spike again nobly supports the idea of Buffy with someone else, albeit it talking to Eldre this time instead of her. And we may actually get Dowling and Buffy having a connection for a little while before the paint-by-numbers sequence gets back to her preferring Spike. Completely obvious romantic story arc is completely obvious. Not recognizing this issue's Spuffy implication would be a great way of diagnosing a concussion.

    Xander and Dawn were -- unfortunately -- in the issue. I say unfortunately because the only purpose (and therefore, presumably, intended purpose) was to make them come across as complete douchebags. Total, total ambivalence to Buffy being cornered in a warehouse by the police, or any suspicion over that because of the fact that she was fine when they left her.

    Buffy and Willow have some reconciliation, and Willow confirms that the power thing is not what she's upset about.

    It's a good and informative issue, but at the same time is predictable in all the big points.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 14-12-11 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sueworld View Post
    Imo just not letting another character die doesn't automatically equate with romance, sadly.
    Look, I know your pessimism about the matter, but the thing is that at that point Severin had grabbed both of them. At that point, Buffy wasn't thinking about herself, wasn't thinking about her powers, didn't care about what will happen to her and she asked Severin not to kill Spike.

    If you don't believe that it's a sweet Spuffy moment, I believe the opposite. She cares for him, deep enough to think about him and about him dying while she's in jeopardy of her powers and, who knows, maybe even of her life.
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    I havent read the issue yet, but judging by the posted panel, Joss promotes Spuffy so heavily that it's time to be very afraid for them. Joss doesn't give so much unless he plans to take away even more.
    [/paranoid]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    I havent read the issue yet, but judging by the posted panel, Joss promotes Spuffy so heavily that it's time to be very afraid for them. Joss doesn't give so much unless he plans to take away even more.
    [/paranoid]
    Short of them actually having sex already, I'm not sure the issue could have been a bigger win for Spuffy's long term prospects. If you can sit through whatever extent they are going to play out her and Dowling, you pretty much are going to win the internets.

    Looking at the tease for 9.05, and ignoring the "key character" reference, I'm thinking that next month they are killing off (in order of probability, although not ruling out combinations) 1) Xander, 2) Dawn, 3) Willow. In short, I'm inclined to believe that the dream images on the cover are going to be in some sense pretty literal. Saying a "key character" brings the mind straight to Dawn, which is why it only might be instead of will be. Right around the time they have us convinced Dawn will die, Xander will.

    Xander and Dawn are being written completely beside the point, and not even sympathetically. They are perfect candidates for every trope about an ancillary but still emotionally meaningful character being killed off to advance the story. This may be the only value left that Joss sees with them, which explains the circumspect answers we get (particularly about Xander).

    Between the two of them, Xander already has an effective replacement standing by in the story -- Dowling. Such rich irony that people were mistaking Dowling for Xander on a cover when it now seems completely plausible that Dowling exists to be Xander 2.0.

    Dawn could still be fodder, but I just find it less likely. A bunch of reasons, most of them unimportant.

    Willow I could see as a long shot to get killed off, but only because it would bring the pain for Buffy and the audience since they just had this nice moment with Willow. But I doubt it.

    Of course, "saying goodbye" could just mean they are going to put a character on the bus, which would be preferable to actually dropping the bus on them, but I'd say that's fourth most likely.

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