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Thread: The Holy Bible/God/Jesus

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    I got a question Cheryl. I've been thinking and I've come to my own conclusion but I want to hear yours. Would you be upset if Yahweh/YHVH/Jehova didn't exist and there was another God instead?

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    bewitching the mind Mara's Avatar
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    Oh my God I love this question. I know it is not posed for me and I am certainly not going to pretend to speak for anyone other than me but I would like to give you an answer to the question just casue, wow love it.

    So first off, I am a sort of liberal ew, meaning I donít go to synagogue but I do celebrate holidays I donít believe that Jesus is Godís son but I do believe that he was an incredibly important and lightened prophet that is just some background info as the question is not posed to me.

    Then on to the question itself. I canít remember where I heard/read this discription: ĎGod is a mean kid with a magnifying glass and we are all just antsí (could it be bruse almighty?) Now if that is the case then yes I would be upset, just because I try to obey a loving God and I would be upset if turns out that God is not so loving.

    But this is the only scenario where I would be upset. If I die and there is no God, thatís fine couse I lived my life thinking there is one and done good because of that. If I die and am greeted by Allah then that is fine too, as I think Allah is a good God a loving one, so I donít see a problem with that. If I die and Jesus greats me same thing. The thing to me is I choose to believe what I believe and that is there is a God. I do not pretend to understand how to believe or understand religion. (or need relgion for that matter) I hope to interpert Gods word in the best way I can and then act on it in the best way I can and that is it. As this threat starts off with a discussion about gay people I want to say something about that in this context. I interpert the Bible or any tekst talking about God as saying that God loves people this is why I donít see a problem with gay people gay marrige anything. I know that gay people are people I know that God loves people. So I try to love people, believe me not always an easy thing to do. I do not pretend to know why God created people as gay and straight. I do not pretend to know what God thinks, so I do not judge people. It is not my place as it is also not my place to tell people wether or not they should get married. (here is another reason of me being upset actually daying and having God tell me that He loves some people more then othersÖyeah this will be the point I become Atheist)

    So anyway my logic is simple logic donít judge stay curious get to know different people/things chances are you wonít ever get upset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    Oh my God I love this question. I know it is not posed for me and I am certainly not going to pretend to speak for anyone other than me but I would like to give you an answer to the question just casue, wow love it.

    So first off, I am a sort of liberal ew, meaning I donít go to synagogue but I do celebrate holidays I donít believe that Jesus is Godís son but I do believe that he was an incredibly important and lightened prophet that is just some background info as the question is not posed to me.

    Then on to the question itself. I canít remember where I heard/read this discription: ĎGod is a mean kid with a magnifying glass and we are all just antsí (could it be bruse almighty?) Now if that is the case then yes I would be upset, just because I try to obey a loving God and I would be upset if turns out that God is not so loving.

    But this is the only scenario where I would be upset. If I die and there is no God, thatís fine couse I lived my life thinking there is one and done good because of that. If I die and am greeted by Allah then that is fine too, as I think Allah is a good God a loving one, so I donít see a problem with that. If I die and Jesus greats me same thing. The thing to me is I choose to believe what I believe and that is there is a God. I do not pretend to understand how to believe or understand religion. (or need relgion for that matter) I hope to interpert Gods word in the best way I can and then act on it in the best way I can and that is it. As this threat starts off with a discussion about gay people I want to say something about that in this context. I interpert the Bible or any tekst talking about God as saying that God loves people this is why I donít see a problem with gay people gay marrige anything. I know that gay people are people I know that God loves people. So I try to love people, believe me not always an easy thing to do. I do not pretend to know why God created people as gay and straight. I do not pretend to know what God thinks, so I do not judge people. It is not my place as it is also not my place to tell people wether or not they should get married. (here is another reason of me being upset actually daying and having God tell me that He loves some people more then othersÖyeah this will be the point I become Atheist)

    So anyway my logic is simple logic donít judge stay curious get to know different people/things chances are you wonít ever get upset.
    Good answer and yes that description of God is from Bruce Almighty
    I was thinking more of along the lines of us dying and meeting an unknown God. How would we react? We would have no frame of reference for this God.

    Also one of those collective consciousness type Gods would be cool to meet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaddyMan1 View Post
    I got a question Cheryl. I've been thinking and I've come to my own conclusion but I want to hear yours. Would you be upset if Yahweh/YHVH/Jehova didn't exist and there was another God instead?

    So sorry for the delay, I have been working a lot lately and not much board time. Would I be upset to get to Heaven and find a different God?

    I'm not sure that I am going to answer this in the way that you are hoping but I am going to try to answer honestly. I know there isn't another God and that makes it really really hard to try to imagine that there could be. When you say another God do you mean something that totally null and voids "The Bible?" Again, not something that I can really even imagine. When you have found the Living God and have managed to grasp onto a personal relationship, something that I don't think is easy to attain, it makes a question like this seem the same as someone asking..."What if you found out that breathing isn't necessary to live, which is a POOR analogy but the only one that I could think of.

    So, to try to answer this as honestly as I can...no, upset is not the emotion but rather probably confused or baffled because just like I know that breathing keeps me alive, I also know that Jesus hears me and answers my prayers and so much more. Having Faith is something that is always difficult if not impossible to explain. Describing the personal relationship that you have with God is even harder because it's so personal. Anyway, I hope that answered what you wanted to know.

    Wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas and God bless all.

    Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaddyMan1 View Post
    Good answer and yes that description of God is from Bruce Almighty
    I was thinking more of along the lines of us dying and meeting an unknown God. How would we react? We would have no frame of reference for this God.

    Also one of those collective consciousness type Gods would be cool to meet.
    Oh good I got that one right than. I love Bruce Almighty . on the subject of meeting an unknown God, I think, I hope, my reaction would be much thesame as it is on Earth. I would try to get to know this God. Much like I am trying to do that on earth. It is my personal believe however that we all know God. Meaning that God created us and I think that we know God like a child knows its parents. A child strives to get to know their parents and looks up to them. Poor analogy but I try in my believe look at God like sort of parent and spritual teacher in one if you will. So if the God we are to meet when we die is a kind God then yeah gettign to know this God would probably be the way to go for me. The Bible is in my opnion a great blessing as it allows us th get to know God while being on Earth.

    What do you mean by collective consiousness? Becasue in my opnion God is collecitve consiousness He knows our thoughts while I don't think He forms our thoughts or is our thoughts I do think He knows them.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl4ba View Post
    So sorry for the delay, I have been working a lot lately and not much board time. Would I be upset to get to Heaven and find a different God?

    I'm not sure that I am going to answer this in the way that you are hoping but I am going to try to answer honestly. I know there isn't another God and that makes it really really hard to try to imagine that there could be. When you say another God do you mean something that totally null and voids "The Bible?" Again, not something that I can really even imagine. When you have found the Living God and have managed to grasp onto a personal relationship, something that I don't think is easy to attain, it makes a question like this seem the same as someone asking..."What if you found out that breathing isn't necessary to live, which is a POOR analogy but the only one that I could think of.
    I think the analogy is great actually. I feel thesame way and I agree with a lot of what you have said. Personally I am that kind of person that would have stopped breathing in that scenario, out of pure curiosity. I really admire your fatih cheryl.

    Merry Christmas!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post


    I think the analogy is great actually. I feel thesame way and I agree with a lot of what you have said. Personally I am that kind of person that would have stopped breathing in that scenario, out of pure curiosity. I really admire your fatih cheryl.

    Merry Christmas!
    Thanks Mara and Merry Christmas to you too! One of the most surprising things that I learned and have been shown numerous times now, since I began this walk with God, is that it's all about love. Love for God, love for our family, love for our neighbor and even love for our enemy. This is such a simple concept but really hard to practice on more than a superficial level. I can tell you that when I accomplish this, even on a small level? I am filled with so much joy that I can hardly stand it. So while God may challenge me and my way of thinking, I have found that his way fullfills me like nothing I have ever experienced. God is so good.

    Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    Oh good I got that one right than. I love Bruce Almighty . on the subject of meeting an unknown God, I think, I hope, my reaction would be much thesame as it is on Earth. I would try to get to know this God. Much like I am trying to do that on earth. It is my personal believe however that we all know God. Meaning that God created us and I think that we know God like a child knows its parents. A child strives to get to know their parents and looks up to them. Poor analogy but I try in my believe look at God like sort of parent and spritual teacher in one if you will. So if the God we are to meet when we die is a kind God then yeah gettign to know this God would probably be the way to go for me. The Bible is in my opnion a great blessing as it allows us th get to know God while being on Earth.

    What do you mean by collective consiousness? Becasue in my opnion God is collecitve consiousness He knows our thoughts while I don't think He forms our thoughts or is our thoughts I do think He knows them.



    I think the analogy is great actually. I feel thesame way and I agree with a lot of what you have said. Personally I am that kind of person that would have stopped breathing in that scenario, out of pure curiosity. I really admire your fatih cheryl.

    Merry Christmas!
    Well of course he knows our thoughts

    So you wouldn't mind if you met an unknown God in the afterlife then? I think that's what you are saying.

    So sorry for the delay, I have been working a lot lately and not much board time. Would I be upset to get to Heaven and find a different God?

    I'm not sure that I am going to answer this in the way that you are hoping but I am going to try to answer honestly. I know there isn't another God and that makes it really really hard to try to imagine that there could be. When you say another God do you mean something that totally null and voids "The Bible?" Again, not something that I can really even imagine. When you have found the Living God and have managed to grasp onto a personal relationship, something that I don't think is easy to attain, it makes a question like this seem the same as someone asking..."What if you found out that breathing isn't necessary to live, which is a POOR analogy but the only one that I could think of.

    So, to try to answer this as honestly as I can...no, upset is not the emotion but rather probably confused or baffled because just like I know that breathing keeps me alive, I also know that Jesus hears me and answers my prayers and so much more. Having Faith is something that is always difficult if not impossible to explain. Describing the personal relationship that you have with God is even harder because it's so personal. Anyway, I hope that answered what you wanted to know.

    Wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas and God bless all.
    Sorry Cheryl was that ye or a nay? I can't tell.

    See I wouldn't mind if Yahaveh and Yeshua weren't God, as long as the God was respectful of my beliefs I would be cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaddyMan1 View Post
    Well of course he knows our thoughts

    So you wouldn't mind if you met an unknown God in the afterlife then? I think that's what you are saying.



    Sorry Cheryl was that ye or a nay? I can't tell.

    See I wouldn't mind if Yahaveh and Yeshua weren't God, as long as the God was respectful of my beliefs I would be cool.
    I guess that I can't answer any clearer than that. Because I know it is God it has become practically impossible for me to even imagine it. I would have to forget all the personal interactions that I have experienced to even try.

    More than a desire for a god to be respectful to me and my thoughts, I feel more jazzed at meeting God, the one who died to pay for *my* sins.

    Sorry if it seems as if I am being willfully stubborn on this. I will have to stand by my original thoughts. Because of experience dying and finding some other god than *my* God isn't something that I can even fathom but if it happened? I would be confused more than upset.

    Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl4ba View Post
    I guess that I can't answer any clearer than that. Because I know it is God it has become practically impossible for me to even imagine it. I would have to forget all the personal interactions that I have experienced to even try.

    More than a desire for a god to be respectful to me and my thoughts, I feel more jazzed at meeting God, the one who died to pay for *my* sins.

    Sorry if it seems as if I am being willfully stubborn on this. I will have to stand by my original thoughts. Because of experience dying and finding some other god than *my* God isn't something that I can even fathom but if it happened? I would be confused more than upset.
    Hmmm... What denomination are you? Me I'm a Jehova's Witness kind of guy, mostly cause I get along with them so well. You wouldn't happen to be a 7th Day Adventist would you?
    Last edited by ChaddyMan1; 29-12-11 at 02:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaddyMan1 View Post
    Hmmm... What denomination are you? Me I'm a Jehova's Witness kind of guy, mostly cause I get along with them so well. You wouldn't happen to be a 7th Day Adventist would you?
    I go to a Methodist Church and enjoy a number of different preachers; James MacDonald, Joyce Meyer, Joseph Prince, Creflo Dollar, etc...I honestly don't keep up too much with denominations. For me it all started and ended with Jesus, as far as the Bible goes. Meaning that I don't believe we will get another word from God until Jesus returns.

    I don't know anything about Jehova witness.

    Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl4ba View Post
    I go to a Methodist Church and enjoy a number of different preachers; James MacDonald, Joyce Meyer, Joseph Prince, Creflo Dollar, etc...I honestly don't keep up too much with denominations. For me it all started and ended with Jesus, as far as the Bible goes. Meaning that I don't believe we will get another word from God until Jesus returns.

    I don't know anything about Jehova witness.
    Well Revelation did say that it was the final book

    Jehova's Witness are the ones that go to door.

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    I just posted something in the Abortion thread, but maybe it belongs here, I am curious to the question of the soul. When do you think the soul enters the body? Does the Bible say something on that? I really want to keep this threat alive. But this is also something that is interesting to discuss I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    I just posted something in the Abortion thread, but maybe it belongs here, I am curious to the question of the soul. When do you think the soul enters the body? Does the Bible say something on that? I really want to keep this threat alive. But this is also something that is interesting to discuss I think.
    The Bible says that God created us before we were ever in our mothers womb, this is found in Jeremiah 1:5...."ďBefore I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.Ē

    In Psalms it says "For you formed my inward parts, you knitted me together in my mothers womb."

    Aside from getting the impression that God thinks killing children is wrong, I get the impression that he becomes angry when it happens, this is something else from the OT, found in Kings 17:17 "They mutilated their sons and daughters by fireÖtill the Lord, in his great anger against Israel, put them away out of his sight" This sin of child-sacrifice, in fact, is mentioned as one of the major reasons that the Kingdom of Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians and the people taken into exile.

    These are all examples from the OT as to why I believe God is saying Abortion is wrong and how I came to the conclusion that it is not lawful for any people.

    Where there is a clear pattern of unavoidable punishment in the OT for breaking the laws and turing away from God, our God is so incredibly awesome, loving and forgiving that he came himself, being born into a Human body named Jesus, to save us from sin. How incredible is that?

    That was such a lame description of what God did for us with Jesus that I feel inadequate to be the one trying to describe it but I wanted to call attention to what a loving and forgiving God we have.

    Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl4ba View Post
    The Bible says that God created us before we were ever in our mothers womb, this is found in Jeremiah 1:5...."“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

    In Psalms it says "For you formed my inward parts, you knitted me together in my mothers womb."

    Aside from getting the impression that God thinks killing children is wrong, I get the impression that he becomes angry when it happens, this is something else from the OT, found in Kings 17:17 "They mutilated their sons and daughters by fire…till the Lord, in his great anger against Israel, put them away out of his sight" This sin of child-sacrifice, in fact, is mentioned as one of the major reasons that the Kingdom of Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians and the people taken into exile.

    These are all examples from the OT as to why I believe God is saying Abortion is wrong and how I came to the conclusion that it is not lawful for any people.

    Where there is a clear pattern of unavoidable punishment in the OT for breaking the laws and turing away from God, our God is so incredibly awesome, loving and forgiving that he came himself, being born into a Human body named Jesus, to save us from sin. How incredible is that?

    That was such a lame description of what God did for us with Jesus that I feel inadequate to be the one trying to describe it but I wanted to call attention to what a loving and forgiving God we have.

    I don’t think your description is lame at all, f it comes from your heart. Besides some things it is almost not possible to put n words.

    Unfortunately, only own the Torah with rabbinic commentaries and the sources you quote from are considered part of the Tenah but not of the Torah so I will have to look into what the Jewish sources have to say about those passages.

    But on another note, and sorry for asking so many questions but I am wondering. How do you view Jesus then? Because I have heard a lot of descriptions, of Jesus as the son of God and, as part of God but I have never actually heard someone refer to Jesus as God. I was under the impression that God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit (right?) are part of each other and one and the same. I believe that this is one of the main differences with Judaism as it doesn’t accept Jesus as any part of God or as God, because God is greater then Man and can not be seen, nor painted or otherwise described and there can be no man equal to God. This s one of the reasons that Judaism forbids any paintings depicting God, or describing God and even goes as far as to forbid imagining God. I have heard my Christian friends refer to Jesus as part of God, or son of God but never as God

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    My "religion" and I use that term loosely because the deeper into this I get the more I realize that it isn't about a "religion" but rather it's about being in a real relationship or fellowship with God... but growing up with parents and grandparents and even great grandparents that were Methodist and who attended a conservative little small town church, I had always heard about the trinity.

    Father (God), Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit. Despite being taught that they were 3 in 1, I never quite got that description, cause lets face it, it's a tough concept to wrap your mind around. So for me, until my crisis conversion that happened a couple of years ago, God was God, Jesus was his son and the Holy Spirit belonged to God.

    When I had the crisis conversion, which has totally changed my life and actually started reading The Bible myself, both Old Testament and New, I could no longer maintain my ignorant (self induced ignorance from lack of study) way of thinking. God made it clear to me, by reading and studying his word what the Trinity really means. I will try to describe it as it makes sense to me.

    We know from reading scripture that God the father manifests himself as unapproachable light, fire if you will. That no one can look at the father and live. From the beginning that God spoke into existence, the Word, (Jesus) has been there. God begins the story that he reveals to us in the Bible by sharing a conversation he has with his companions to which he says "Let us make man in our image"

    It is now my belief that Jesus, being described as "the word of God" was actually the speaker in that passage. My rational brain leads me to believe this because we are made in the image of "God" and we are not a ball of light or fire but rather human, what Jesus looked like. This is something that I came upon the evidence of after it was revealed to me that Jesus is God in human form, a persona he has always possessed.


    The Holy Spirit is something that is described in the NT as being responsible to lead us into all truth and the thing about the Holy Spirit is that you don't receive it until you invite Jesus into your life as payment for all your sins, past and future. What is truly incredible, when you start reading The Bible, both new and old, the old testament totally starts setting up the arrival of Jesus in all the stories.

    An example of this would be in how Abraham was ordered by God to take Isaac to the region of Moriah and sacrifice him there as an offering, only to be stopped in the eleventh hour by God himself, who supplied the sacrifice (ram) himself. Jesus later becomes that sacrifice in the NT, dying for the sins of the world.

    Another example is seen in the passover, during Moses day in Egypt as God commands the Hebrew people to sacrifice an animal and smear it's blood on the door posts so that when the Angel came to slaughter all first borns, the Hebrew people would be spared and they were.

    Accepting Jesus and his sacrifice, believing that his blood covers your sins
    will be the blood that saves us during the next passover, which is discussed in Revelation, when God the father unleashes Hell on Earth with his wrath for all those who turned away from him.

    There are lots and lots of examples pointing to Jesus in the OT.

    Having said all of that and this is such a huge subject that I don't think I could get across everything that I think if I were to write a 100 page essay, none of those things mentioned above were what led me to the realization that Jesus is God. Those are things that I noticed after being led into the truth.

    What hit me like a ton of bricks one day, as I was watching Joyce Meyers teachings on tv as she read a passage from the NT in which Jesus says "I AM the way, the truth and the life, no-one comes to the father except through me. I AM the light of the world." was that God used the words "I AM" to describe himself. When Moses asks God who to say sent him to the Hebrew people in Egypt this was God's reply "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

    When I saw that on the tv screen it really clicked for me as I was studying in the OT at that time and knew exactly how God described himself as I AM. That took me down a path of trying to learn everything that I could about the relationship between Jesus and God. Which in turn led me to learn a lot about the language of the Hebrew people in association with certain words; First born for example does not mean first born to the Jewish people of that time, it meant to be higher in rank and set apart. The nation of Israel was labeled first born. David, who was like 8th in the line of his siblings is labeled "first born". Etc...

    So, in a nutshell, this is how I see it after all is said and done. God is Holy and Righteous by nature and therefore requires punishment for sin. We are unable not to sin because of the sins of Adam, God who loved the world so much, came and paid the price himself, under the persona of Jesus. The blood of Jesus washes our sin away if we accept the free gift of God's love in sending him, or coming, how ever you want to look at it. After you believe and accept Jesus, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you, revealing all truth a little at a time. Glory to Glory to Glory.

    I have read another passage that helps cement this into my mind as truth from the OT but I can't remember where it is written, I have been trying to find it for you and will keep looking. I really hope this makes some kind of sense while you try to read it. This is such a difficult topic to do any real justice in representing.

    Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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