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Thread: Season 9: spoilery speculations (no spoiler tags)

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    Willow certainly could have killed some of those cops, but I assume she did not. She has only two victims that we can say for certain, and I really doubt Joss would have been fool enough to saddle Willow with the copkiller label. I don't know if that has quite the electric effect in other parts of the world (not that it's ever "good" anywhere), but in the US that is a perfect way to have a character "rape the dog", to borrow from an old thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Joss admitted that they went too OTT in season 8, and the idea of season 9 is "back to the basics", not "let's try to outdo the craziness of season 8".

    As for controversial, meh, I can think of many things that would be even more controversial and shocking... it doesn't mean that they would make any sense or be a good idea or be faithful to the characters. (I was going to write some crazy ideas just as examples, but in the spirit of keeping the conversation on a certain level, I decided not to. )
    Well, if - a very big IF - the Ripper happens, I don't expect him and Buffy to have space-frak!

    I think Riffy could be comparable to Spuffy in season 4 - there wouldl be snark, mutual hate (until Buffy realizes who he actually is) and a lot of innuendos. Nothing sexual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    Well, if - a very big IF - the Ripper happens, I don't expect him and Buffy to have space-frak!

    I think Riffy could be comparable to Spuffy in season 4 - there wouldl be snark, mutual hate (until Buffy realizes who he actually is) and a lot of innuendos. Nothing sexual.
    If it were really Ripper, Buffy should be able to recognize him straight away. Or maybe, after a couple of minutes. People normally don't change their physical appearance that much between their late teens and their 40s to be unrecognizable, barring a disfiguring accident, cosmetic surgery or huge weight loss/gain. Not to mention their voice. And she's already seen Giles acting as Ripper, so she shouldn't be too surprised by his personality, either.

    (Sure, we're used to movies and TV shows casting different actors as the same person young and middle-aged, but that's where you have to suspend disbelief.)
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    If it were really Ripper, Buffy should be able to recognize him straight away. Or maybe, after a couple of minutes. People normally don't change their physical appearance that much between their late teens and their 40s to be unrecognizable, barring a disfiguring accident, cosmetic surgery or huge weight loss/gain. Not to mention their voice. And she's already seen Giles acting as Ripper, so she shouldn't be too surprised by his personality, either.

    (Sure, we're used to movies and TV shows casting different actors as the same person young and middle-aged, but that's where you have to suspend disbelief.)
    You're most likely right. Maybe I'm clutching at straws, hoping to get Giles back. (If Joss won't do it, I'll write a fic about time-travelling Ripper! )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    You're most likely right. Maybe I'm clutching at straws, hoping to get Giles back. (If Joss won't do it, I'll write a fic about time-travelling Ripper! )
    Pretty sure that's your best option. I just can't comprehend that Joss would render Giles' death so meaningless, which is exactly what it would do.

    Could someone walk me through the origin of this theory? I just don't get where it comes from at all. We've seen one panel of a man, at an age where we've never seen Giles, wearing apparel we've never seen him in, an accessory (red-tinted wire-rim glasses) we've never seen him in, no immediate visual clues that link the two. Further, we have no exemplar for Giles with which to even compare, and even if we did, it would be from a different visual medium. I'm struggling to come up with so much as one fact that sets us on a path to being able to predict that RRG is some version of Giles, or even a relation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    Pretty sure that's your best option. I just can't comprehend that Joss would render Giles' death so meaningless, which is exactly what it would do.

    Could someone walk me through the origin of this theory? I just don't get where it comes from at all. We've seen one panel of a man, at an age where we've never seen Giles, wearing apparel we've never seen him in, an accessory (red-tinted wire-rim glasses) we've never seen him in, no immediate visual clues that link the two. Further, we have no exemplar for Giles with which to even compare, and even if we did, it would be from a different visual medium. I'm struggling to come up with so much as one fact that sets us on a path to being able to predict that RRG is some version of Giles, or even a relation.
    Nothing concrete, just specs. On one hand, he's left-handed, blue-eyed, wears gloves (a potential twist of Buffy recognizing him by his signet ring), wears tinted glasses so that Buffy can't see his eyes (in "A New Man" Buffy recognized Giles by his eyes) in a punk-ish garb.

    On the other hand, Joss wanted to make "Ripper" for 10 years. Apparently, he still has ideas for Giles.

    I agree, it doesn't prove anything. But it's just an idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    Nothing concrete, just specs. On one hand, he's left-handed, blue-eyed, wears gloves (a potential twist of Buffy recognizing him by his signet ring), wears tinted glasses so that Buffy can't see his eyes (in "A New Man" Buffy recognized Giles by his eyes) in a punk-ish garb.
    Some googling is telling me, though, that 27% of the world population is left-handed, and 19% of it is blue-eyed. And the gloves and glasses are both features which you tacitly acknowledge differentiate RRG from Giles. I guess I'm just going with a different process.

    On the other hand, Joss wanted to make "Ripper" for 10 years. Apparently, he still has ideas for Giles.
    But he also made a personal call to Tony Head to let him know Giles was dying. If it was something where Giles was basically just going to get "reinvented", would he have bothered? Personally, I don't think so.

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    I've always thought that Whedon's ideas for "Ripper" are inspiring the "Angel & Faith" title -- that's why it's set in London and why Allie has said that Angel is inheriting Giles' mission, also that there will be Giles flashbacks.

    So considering Giles is going to be a prominent figure in "Angel & Faith", a guiding figure, I don't see Joss doubling down on Giles as a youthful Ripper in Buffy Season 9. It's diluting the power of the narrative juice, both in the effect of Giles' death and in how Giles will be posthumously influencing the "Angel & Faith" title.

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    Left-handed and blue-eyed also codes for Spike, fwiw. Though I'm no keener on a time-travelling William than I am a time-travelling Ripper.

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    I've always thought that Whedon's ideas for "Ripper" are inspiring the "Angel & Faith" title -- that's why it's set in London and why Allie has said that Angel is inheriting Giles' mission, also that there will be Giles flashbacks.
    Pretty disturbing that Angel is going to be living in Giles' home when you consider that Angel (albeit Twilight!Angel) is the one who killed Giles. I hope they don't just blithely ignore the irony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregor View Post
    Pretty disturbing that Angel is going to be living in Giles' home when you consider that Angel (albeit Twilight!Angel) is the one who killed Giles. I hope they don't just blithely ignore the irony.
    The creepiness seems deliberate to me. Angel living in the home of the man he killed and taking up his mission is a more personal form of redemption, similar to what he did in the AtS Season 2 premiere. The irony is built into the concept.

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    For the Fray vampires, Iíve always assumed that they simply tried to blend in. People were made into mutants or whatever from the radiation of the sun and so people simply thought of lurks as a kind of mutant.

    ___________

    Ripper without magic I donít think would be much of a threat.

    And why would he be a danger to Buffy?

    And Iíd agree that Buffy would be able to recognize Ripper as being Giles.

    And anyway, Ripper was a punk who was rebelling against his destiny of being a Watcher. Ripper wasnít described as being evil or anything like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmie View Post
    The creepiness seems deliberate to me. Angel living in the home of the man he killed and taking up his mission is a more personal form of redemption, similar to what he did in the AtS Season 2 premiere. The irony is built into the concept.
    So Angel is the Watcher now?!

    Edit: I just thought of something. This may not mean anything but go back to that panel in issue 40 showing the various people who may cause Buffy problems. It showed Willow, the Fairy, Simone and John Lennon glasses guy. Look at John Lennon glasses man. This is something I haven't seen anyone notice...but is he wearing a hat?! Specifically a top hat?

    I ask this question because I can only think of one character in the comic book world who wears top hats like this and it specifically means something. And this character is Zatanna...who is a witch in the DC universe.

    But there's also the panel in Goddesses and Monsters when Willow went to see Saga Vasuki. That first large panel showed a little kid...with a top hat. So when I'm asking the question about John Lennon glasses guy...then this accessory could be a clue to his nature...he's a wizard! This suggests he has access to magic powers...in the post Twilight non magical world.
    Last edited by DorothyFan1; 18-05-11 at 01:52 PM.

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    I'm not sure where that's coming from in Emmie's post. Angel would no more be "the Watcher" than taking the Hyperion made him a hotel manager. Less so, really, because Angel isn't taking Giles' home. Angel is a guest in Faith's. Angel is at square one again, he has regressed past "City of..." and arguably past "Welcome to the Hellmouth". He is no longer qualified to play Yoda to Faith or anyone else. He doesn't give wise insights, he gets them. Or this whole book will be a waste of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DorothyFan1 View Post
    So Angel is the Watcher now?!
    No. The premise for "Ripper" had nothing to do with being an active Watcher.

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    I just thought of something pretty wild. Remember that scene when Willow "saw" Tara in Goddesses and Monsters? Is it possible that motion that Willow did...when she "wiped" Tara from view Willow was wiping Tara from her memory?! Because it suddenly makes what Scott Allie said with that bizarre comment about Tara more understandable. This would explain that puzzling scene in issue 40 when we saw Willow pining after Saga Vasuki claiming she'd never see *her* again...because Willow was either tricked into forgetting about Tara...or Willow chose to wipe her memory of Tara from her mind.

    If that's the case here...then we're staring at a big clue when Scott Allie talked about what to do about Tara.

    Edit: There's more. If you recall that scene in Goddesses and Monsters - we see Willow kissing Kennedy goodbye as she's supposed to see Saga as part of her "training" or something like this. The very next panel we see the voice over from Saga Vasuki say..."Forget her." You can be forgiven for thinking it's meant for us to suggest Willow is supposed to forget about Kennedy or at least giving her up. But what if Saga Vasuki was really referring to *Tara* that Willow had to forget about?

    I wouldn't be surprised if we get a shocking moment in issue 1 of Season 9 when Buffy is having her party and Willow is there. One of the people there mention Tara's name and Willow says "Who's Tara?" The minute Buffy finds out about this she'll know something is very wrong.
    Last edited by DorothyFan1; 19-05-11 at 12:29 AM.

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    A page and a script from ANGEL& FAITH #1: The Artistic Process.




    More here:
    http://www.newsarama.com/php/multime...id=3327&page=2

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So... From vegetable to badass overnight, huh?
    Apparently, somebody attacked them at Giles' apartment and Angel woke up to protect Faith and her place.

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    Well I don't know what to think about the dialog, but the artwork is lovely.

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    @Sueworld - Agree, the art is nice. Although I'm a bit surprised that Faith is practically flying in the air on the last panel.

    I wonder if that Hannah is a demon or a witch. A demon with a pink flower on her t-shirt is quite funny.

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    Although I'm a bit surprised that Faith is practically flying in the air on the last panel.
    Oh thats just artistic license. A typical comic book 'thing' when it comes to characters fighting.

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