Page 1 of 91 1231151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 1818

Thread: Season 9: spoilery speculations (no spoiler tags)

  1. #1
    Bug #3 Moscow Watcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russian Fede
    Posts
    1,492
    Thanks
    622
    Thanked 409 Times in 167 Posts

    Default Season 9: spoilery speculations (no spoiler tags)

    I think it's okay to open a thread where we could discuss everything in future season 9 without spoiler tags. If mods find this thread unnecessary or inappropriate, please, delete it.

    So, what do we know for sure?

    About mid-season 8 (around issue #28) Joss has abandoned the initial Season 9 plan and created a new one.

    Buffy will stay in SanFrancisco. She'll get new roommates and she'll have her own apartment "a nicer place than she could afford".

    The first issue will feature a big party. It's unclear where the party will take place.

    Xander is her "stalwart buddy".

    Willow has some major trauma ahead of her. She has a lot to get over. It won't be pretty. Willow has "unresolved feelings for Tara".

    Spike won't be on his bug ship for very long. He'll be a part of Buffy's Season 9 life.

    Angel and Faith will stay in London. Their adventures have a darker, more creepy/magic noir vibe.

    There will be flashbacks featuring Giles and everyone will have "to deal with what that means".

    Joss has "very specific plans for Illyria".

    Drusilla will show up.

    We will see more of Whistler.

    A hunky demon who served time in a mystical prison will be introduced. He has "an interesting past shrouded in mystery".

    According to an old Jeanty interview, Angel will try to undo what he has done in season 8.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Specs and questions:

    1) Interestingly, Allie says about Christos Gage: "And Chris is good with women, good with mood, good with the kind of mechanical story structure that works for mysteries, and which Joss himself doesn't gravitate to so much. He adds something to the mix of Joss writers that really fits for this book." Maybe Angel will be investigating Twilight. It bodes well with the promise of Whistler's reappearance.

    2) Buffy's new flat. Could it be a room on Spike's ship? He could crash it or ran out of its magic fuel and then disguise it as a fancy ship and dock it at SF harbour. Buffy could rent a shuttle there. Like Inara on Mal's ship in "Firefly".

    3) On "Fray" vampires are considered not particularty dangerous. They're "street rats". Could the theme of the season be an attempt on domestication of vampires?

    4) The Guys in Glasses is left-handed and blue-eyed. He wears gloves. Could it be time-travelling Ripper, sent to the present by, say, an aftershock of space-frak? Will there be a revelatory moment of him taking off his gloves and Buffy recognising a familiar signet-ring?

  2. #2
    Slayer TimeTravellingBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    5,771
    Thanks
    5,558
    Thanked 4,701 Times in 2,220 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    3) On "Fray" vampires are considered not particularty dangerous. They're "street rats". Could the theme of the season be an attempt on domestication of vampires?
    Definitely, Allie has said that the vampires are now popular and accepted in the mainstream, but Buffy knows they're evil and is taking care of them. It will be interesting to see how many vampires are like Harmony and the blonde girl from "Carpe Noctem" and how many despise the attempts to domesticate them, like the brunette vampire from "Carpe Noctem", how many may be trying to fit in but can't keep it up because the bloodlust gets the better of them, and how many are just putting a good show of being harmless but killing in secret.

    4) The Guys in Glasses is left-handed and blue-eyed. He wears gloves. Could it be time-travelling Ripper, sent to the present by, say, an aftershock of space-frak? Will there be a revelatory moment of him taking off his gloves and Buffy recognising a familiar signet-ring?
    That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how it would work... and it could be seen as just a way to bring Giles back without resurrecting him. If that's the case though, then Andrew Chambliss was lying when he said he's disappointed he won't get to write Giles.

    Other things be know for sure:

    - Buffy will be tormented and pursued by angry Slayers

    - Connor's story will be "mostly told" in Angel & Faith

    - Illyria is appearing in something written by Joss (which I suppose means S9, but may also mean a miniseries?)

    - We'll definitely get to see more of Andrew in Buffy S9 (Chambliss is excited for writing him and letting his inner geek out)

    Possible, but not certain:

    - Lorne may appear in Angel & Faith - Cage said Joss gave him permission to use him
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  3. #3
    Bug #3 Moscow Watcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russian Fede
    Posts
    1,492
    Thanks
    622
    Thanked 409 Times in 167 Posts

    Default

    TimeTravellingBunny
    If that's the case though, then Andrew Chambliss was lying when he said he's disappointed he won't get to write Giles.
    He definitely was lying - because, according to Allie (Assignment X interview), there will be flashbacks featuring Giles. Why he was lying - that's another question. Maybe he was afraid to tell too much.

    Re: Giles. I think of the scene oт the swing in Restless. It would be very Jossian to make Giles and Spike kind of trade roles. As Spike becomes Buffy's Watcher figure, Giled gets the role of a caustic, obnoxious punk.

    We'll definitely get to see more of Andrew in Buffy S9 (Chambliss is excited for writing him and letting his inner geek out)
    Yes! Looks like all the new writers love Andrew because they identify with him. I wonder if Buffy's boss in the cafe could be Andrew's future love interest.

    Lorne may appear in Angel & Faith - Cage said Joss gave him permission to use him
    I'd love to see Lorne. Looks like A&F series will be dark. They could reintroduce Lorne to lighten the mood.

  4. #4
    Slayer TimeTravellingBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    5,771
    Thanks
    5,558
    Thanked 4,701 Times in 2,220 Posts

    Default

    How did your quote get the wrong name in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    He definitely was lying - because, according to Allie (Assignment X interview), there will be flashbacks featuring Giles. Why he was lying - that's another question. Maybe he was afraid to tell too much.
    We know that there will be flashbacks featuring Giles in Angel & Faith. We don't know if there will be any flashbacks featuring Giles in Buffy S9.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    Re: Giles. I think of the scene oт the swing in Restless. It would be very Jossian to make Giles and Spike kind of trade roles. As Spike becomes Buffy's Watcher figure, Giled gets the role of a caustic, obnoxious punk.
    I hope not, Spike needs to remain caustic and at least somewhat obnoxious. (Punk goes without saying.)
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  5. #5
    Bug #3 Moscow Watcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russian Fede
    Posts
    1,492
    Thanks
    622
    Thanked 409 Times in 167 Posts

    Default

    TimeTravellingBunny
    How did your quote get the wrong name in it?
    Oops! Sorry!

    I usually write my posts in notepad and then I copy-paste them in the "reply" box and code them manually. I was thinking about Maggie's post in another section - and, apparently, I typed her name autimatically. I'm a moron!

    Fixed now.

    We know that there will be flashbacks featuring Giles in Angel & Faith. We don't know if there will be any flashbacks featuring Giles in Buffy S9.
    You may be right. Although, in the Assignment X interview there is no clear indication that Allie speaks about A&F:

    How big of an impact will Giles’ death have on Season 9 ?

    “The repercussions of Giles death is in some ways is what Season 9 is all about,” Allie says. “There will be flashbacks featuring Giles and everyone will have to deal with what that means.”


    "Repercussions" is such a sly word. Ripper's arrival could be a repercussion, too. Usually time-travellers must avoid bumping into themselves, to avoid temporal paradoxes. Maybe it was Giles' death that allowed Ripper to land in our timeline.

    I hope not, Spike needs to remain caustic and at least somewhat obnoxious. (Punk goes without saying.)
    Heee!
    I hope that Spike will be caustic with Xander, Dawn and Andrew - but will be gentler with Buffy. Poor girl needs a bit of comfort.

  6. #6
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,712
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked 3,901 Times in 1,841 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    1) Interestingly, Allie says about Christos Gage: "And Chris is good with women, good with mood, good with the kind of mechanical story structure that works for mysteries, and which Joss himself doesn't gravitate to so much. He adds something to the mix of Joss writers that really fits for this book." Maybe Angel will be investigating Twilight. It bodes well with the promise of Whistler's reappearance.
    Going to sound negative, I guess, but if "Twilight" wasn't mentioned by name again in the "Buffy" canon, it would be no loss at all. The focus with Angel should not be on the metaphysics of Twilight or how it worked -- it's all a Jasmine rehash, really. It should be on his falling back into exactly what he claimed to be rejecting in Season 5 of "Angel", but basically decided to run with -- everybody is ants, real power is what matters, that's how you get stuff done, etc. Whistler's best use would be as a guy who can point out to Angel (assuming Whistler was duped and not actually working for Twilight willingly) that anybody can be taken in by a big idea if they lack humility. Whistler could admit to having been so sure he had an inside line to the Powers that he trusted whatever he heard. Angel was so sure he was the figure of heroic destiny that he could carry out what on its face was obviously a deeply immoral, villainous scheme and it would still be "good".

    2) Buffy's new flat. Could it be a room on Spike's ship? He could crash it or ran out of its magic fuel and then disguise it as a fancy ship and dock it at SF harbour. Buffy could rent a shuttle there. Like Inara on Mal's ship in "Firefly".
    Really doubt it. It's aesthetically contrary to everything they've said Season 9 will be, to have even one, let alone two, major characters living on that ship. Besides, the "like Mal and Inara" obviousness makes it trite; it really would be a 'shippy shoehorning whether they admit it or not.

    3) On "Fray" vampires are considered not particularty dangerous. They're "street rats". Could the theme of the season be an attempt on domestication of vampires?
    I'm more thinking Joss probably really loves A) True Blood and B) the end of "The Dark Knight", because now he has the Buffyverse doing both at once. If vampires are socially accepted now, then Buffy is... a villain. She's a vigilante, a racist, a fascist. To the average person in the Buffyverse's social mainstream, she'll be everything that article I despise and reject so thoroughly (Brownskirts) says she could be interpreted as. She'd be the hero the Buffyverse deserves, but not the one it needs.

    The political metaphors I would be coming up with for Season 9 under those conditions are probably the total opposite of what Joss is likely to do, though.

    4) The Guys in Glasses is left-handed and blue-eyed. He wears gloves. Could it be time-travelling Ripper, sent to the present by, say, an aftershock of space-frak? Will there be a revelatory moment of him taking off his gloves and Buffy recognising a familiar signet-ring?
    And, again, knowing I'll sound negative... please no. Just please. I can't even begin to articulate how much better an OC villain would be to any rehash, and especially one that necessarily diminishes Giles' death by bringing back Clone/Time Travel Giles.

    Banner by LRae12

  7. #7
    Bug #3 Moscow Watcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russian Fede
    Posts
    1,492
    Thanks
    622
    Thanked 409 Times in 167 Posts

    Default

    Hey, KoC *waves*

    When you didn't reply me on the banner request thread, I decided that you've put me on your "ignore" list; I couldn't figure out what I did to deserve that! I'm glad I was wrong.

    The focus with Angel should not be on the metaphysics of Twilight or how it worked -- it's all a Jasmine rehash, really. It should be on his falling back into exactly what he claimed to be rejecting in Season 5 of "Angel", but basically decided to run with -- everybody is ants, real power is what matters, that's how you get stuff done, etc. Whistler's best use would be as a guy who can point out to Angel (assuming Whistler was duped and not actually working for Twilight willingly) that anybody can be taken in by a big idea if they lack humility. Whistler could admit to having been so sure he had an inside line to the Powers that he trusted whatever he heard. Angel was so sure he was the figure of heroic destiny that he could carry out what on its face was obviously a deeply immoral, villainous scheme and it would still be "good".
    Yes, it would be great as a character arc, but I was talking about the possible seasonal plot. An investigation is the best way to structure a story, to give it a momentum, to provide cliffhangers.

    It's aesthetically contrary to everything they've said Season 9 will be, to have even one, let alone two, major characters living on that ship. Besides, the "like Mal and Inara" obviousness makes it trite; it really would be a 'shippy shoehorning whether they admit it or not.
    I don't see how it's aesthetically contrary to everything they've said Season 9 will be. Of course, there are other ways to provide Buffy with "a nicer place than she could afford". Joss could replay the Cordelia-and-Dennis story.

    If vampires are socially accepted now, then Buffy is... a villain. She's a vigilante, a racist, a fascist. To the average person in the Buffyverse's social mainstream, she'll be everything that article I despise and reject so thoroughly (Brownskirts) says she could be interpreted as. She'd be the hero the Buffyverse deserves, but not the one it needs.
    Vampires already are socially acceptable, since Harmony is a TV star. Yet Buffy is not a villain. I think it could be an interesting, if a bit controversial arc about failed attempts to live in peace with vampires.

    I can't even begin to articulate how much better an OC villain would be to any rehash, and especially one that necessarily diminishes Giles' death by bringing back Clone/Time Travel Giles.
    I think it depends on execution. We know that Joss has a lot of unrealised ideas about Ripper. The glimpses of him in "Band Candy" were fascinating.

  8. #8
    Scooby Gang cil_domney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    641
    Thanks
    2,677
    Thanked 995 Times in 313 Posts

    Default

    Giles as Ripper, I don't know how this would work post Season 8 - his death was so important to the characters and readers for its emotional impact and life change. Having Giles comes back as a Ripper persona would really have to be an outstanding story. If flashbacks are how he will be presented, that puts him in historical perspective. Wouldn't Season 9 have to combine his history and the emotional impact of his death to the characters and readers?

    I would prefer an OC as well than doing a Ripper for Giles. Plus, why he left his estate to Faith, that is still something that I would like to know. In NFFY Giles and Faith discuss their history of using "lethal force" plus Faith brings in the theme of "other Gigis" - rogue slayers and working in "social worker" role in contrast to using violence. Giles does use Faith, as he did himself, to do the dirty work in this phase - he tells Buffy "no, I don't want you to be any part of this." Did he mean only the dirty work of killing Gigi and dealing with Roden?

    Regarding the Spike as Watcher - with Spike having such specific text about higher learning, calling Buffy & Angel "...morons who never got a higher education..." and being the bringer of much needed information, and fighting right there with her to the end, I came away thinking the set up for a potential Spike version of Watcher/Fighter was left open.

    There are still so many unanswered questions
    Last edited by cil_domney; 16-05-11 at 12:49 AM.

  9. #9
    Hellmouth Tourist
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    34
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    I wouldn't be surprised if Giles/Ripper was the guy at the end of #40. I mean the death of Warren is fundamental to Willow's character development and path in life from late S6 onwards yet Joss and co randomly retconned his death, broke continuity for 'Conversations with Dead People', and undermined said Willow characterisation just for the opportunity to have Warren as some hackneyed evil madman that didn't really contribute all that much to S8 that Amy couldn't have by herself before collapsing into a puddle of bodily goo when magic was eliminated. If they can do that with Warren they can certainly bring back Giles if they think he has a role to play although I would hope they've learned a little by now. This being said I wouldn't surprised if they were comfortable in messing up Giles' death aswell. I'm just waiting for Anya to be resurrected in S9 and to wreck havoc in Xander and Dawn's relationship when it starts to get really serious *rollseyes*
    Last edited by Londinium; 17-05-11 at 12:04 AM.

  10. #10
    Dedicated Spike Fan Maggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,355
    Thanks
    1,700
    Thanked 4,117 Times in 1,068 Posts

    Default

    The difference is that Warren's death wasn't interesting as far as Warren goes -- it was only interesting because of who killed him and how. Giles' death mattered both because of who killed him and how, but also because of who he is. If Willow had murdered Xander and then they resurrected Xander -- then you'd have a comparable case.

    I grant you, Joss is in danger of trivializing death by bringing back one too many characters. But I don't see him doing it this time. He left Jenny and Joyce dead. He's going to leave Giles dead. When something gets played for tragedy the way this does, it doesn't get undone.

    "I don't want to be this good-looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear." Banner Credit: Vampmogs

  11. #11
    Slayer TimeTravellingBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    5,771
    Thanks
    5,558
    Thanked 4,701 Times in 2,220 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Londinium View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if Giles/Ripper was the guy at the end of #40. I mean the death of Warren is fundamental to Willow's character development and path in life from late S6 onwards yet Joss and co randomly retconned his death, broke continuity for 'Conversations with Dead People', and undermined said Willow characterisation just for the opportunity to have Warren as some hackneyed evil madman that didn't really contribute all that much to S8 that Amy couldn't have by herself before collapsing into a puddle of bodily goo when magic was eliminated. If they can do that with Warren they can certainly bring back Giles if they think he has a role to play although I would hope they've learned a little by now. This being said I wouldn't surprised if they were comfortable in messing up Giles' death aswell. I'm just waiting for Anya to be resurrected in S9 and to wreck havoc in Xander and Dawn's relationship when it starts to get really serious *rollseyes*
    I'm not sure if it makes any difference for Willow's characterization. She still tried to murder him, and she made him into a walking inhuman skinless monster and reminder of what she's capable of. Not really that much better. (And since he finally collapsed into a puddle of bloody goo, technically what Willow did to him again became murder - just like it would be if she put him in a coma and he finally died two years later.)

    That said, it was really unnecessary to bring him back, it's one of the more pointless S8 plots. (Though, to me, it was worth it just for the cameo in Always Darkest.)
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  12. #12
    Scooby Gang gregor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    756
    Thanks
    71
    Thanked 306 Times in 149 Posts

    Default

    I totally agree that Warren was SO unnecessary, as was Amy. I did not buy Amy as a villain who suddenly wants to kill everyone and has no problem with a skinless woman-killing boyfriend. Where did that come from? It does kind of seem like no one stays dead. Who's next, Joyce? (Better her than Warren, of course.)

  13. #13
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,712
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked 3,901 Times in 1,841 Posts

    Default

    Bringing back Giles -- which, all rationalization aside, is what that would be -- would honestly come closer than anything so far to pushing me straight out of the story. But, realistically, I don't worry about it. There's just nothing there I can see on which to theorize that's alternate dimension, time-travel Ripper. It's all too "Drusilla is a centaur!" for me, or maybe a bit too "Future Xander (or anyone) is Twilight". That's an original character. The mystery around him, IMO, is what he "is". There's a quality about him that makes me say he's Joss' answer to the Joker. That fits for me because, what I was trying to say before, if vampires are really treated just as a misunderstood minority now in the society of the Buffyverse, Buffy will have become the Dark Knight.

    Banner by LRae12

  14. #14
    Bug #3 Moscow Watcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russian Fede
    Posts
    1,492
    Thanks
    622
    Thanked 409 Times in 167 Posts

    Default

    Cil_Domney
    Giles as Ripper, I don't know how this would work post Season 8 - his death was so important to the characters and readers for its emotional impact and life change. Having Giles comes back as a Ripper persona would really have to be an outstanding story. If flashbacks are how he will be presented, that puts him in historical perspective. Wouldn't Season 9 have to combine his history and the emotional impact of his death to the characters and readers?
    I like your spec on the possibility of historical flashbacks. It's a great wealth of stories to tell - another point in favor of Ripper.

    why he left his estate to Faith, that is still something that I would like to know.
    I always assumed that Giles' will was written long ago, when Buffy had her castle and Faith had nothing, so it was logical to bequeath his possessions to Faith.

    Londinium
    I wouldn't be surprised if Giles/Ripper was the guy at the end of #40. [...] If they can do that with Warren they can certainly bring back Giles if they think he has a role to play although I would hope they've learned a little by now.
    Hey! *waves* I'm glad I'm not alone who thinks it's possible. Although, knowing Joss, I'm almost sure that he'll surprise us and do something nobody of us expects.

    We only know that Joss wanted to make "Ripper" show since 2001. He had a lot of ideas. Maybe he still wants to explore this avenue.

    Maggie
    The difference is that Warren's death wasn't interesting as far as Warren goes -- it was only interesting because of who killed him and how. Giles' death mattered both because of who killed him and how, but also because of who he is. If Willow had murdered Xander and then they resurrected Xander -- then you'd have a comparable case.
    It's a tricky moment. Ripper is not Giles per se. It's a character we know very little about.

    I admit, I'm torn about this idea. I don't want to see death trivialized - but, OTOH, I'd love to see that new, young and punk-ish reincarnation of a well-known character.

    By now, two major characters in Buffyverse had duality in them: Angel/Angelus and Spike/William. As they say, three's a charm.

  15. #15
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,753
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked 78 Times in 71 Posts

    Default

    By now, two major characters in Buffyverse had duality in them: Angel/Angelus and Spike/William. As they say, three's a charm.
    Are you implying if Joss does this assuming it turns out to be Young Giles that he's romance material for Buffy?

  16. #16
    Bug #3 Moscow Watcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russian Fede
    Posts
    1,492
    Thanks
    622
    Thanked 409 Times in 167 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DorothyFan1 View Post
    Are you implying if Joss does this assuming it turns out to be Young Giles that he's romance material for Buffy?
    I didn't imply that - but your idea is very interesting.
    We know that Joss loves to surpass himself. After the space-frak, Joss needs something very sensational and controversial to outdo it.

  17. #17
    Hellmouth Tourist
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    34
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    Young Giles as romance material for Buffy would just be wrong, so wrong and disgusting. Especially considering technically speaking Ripper had Joyce aswell :P

    I'm not sure if it makes any difference for Willow's characterization. She still tried to murder him, and she made him into a walking inhuman skinless monster and reminder of what she's capable of. Not really that much better. (And since he finally collapsed into a puddle of bloody goo, technically what Willow did to him again became murder - just like it would be if she put him in a coma and he finally died two years later.)
    I think it's a thin line but the point was that Willow had killed people when she went all Dark. In S7 she's saying to Giles how she killed people and how she doesn't know whether her friends will take her back. It's a different level of emotional response to killing someone compared to trying to do so but failing. Especially when Willow could explain away Warren's 2nd 'death', which she doesn't know about yet, as occuring because Buffy destroyed the seed. Warren should have stayed dead, it just works better for Willow's character imo. As it stands now her belief in the crimes she committed and how she needs redemption is probably lesser because Warren is still alive (as far as she knows) despite being turned into some horrible skinless monster by her.

  18. #18
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,712
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked 3,901 Times in 1,841 Posts

    Default

    Is the third time a charm, or is the third time just even more incredibly rehashed and over done? Honestly, though, until we have fact one to support even the speculation that that might be a time-travelled, alternate dimension Giles, it's not something I see spending time on. I just can't deal with the potential plot directions of a development that there is next to no chance whatsoever is actually in play; it really is "Future Xander is Twilight" all over again.

    The Warren thing really doesn't matter; Willow did kill him. He did, factually, die, even Joss' retcon "oops" had to acknowledge that. And, couple that with her subjective belief that she had killed him and the failure of Joss to revisit that as though Willow's perspective had been changed, and I just don't see the issue there. Besides, since Warren ultimate still died from the injuries Willow inflicted, nothing has changed at all.

    Banner by LRae12

  19. #19
    Scooby Gang gregor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    756
    Thanks
    71
    Thanked 306 Times in 149 Posts

    Default

    Didn't Willow also kill other people? It looked like she had killed the dark magic guy (Rack?) when she sucked all his mojo out of him. She certainly could have killed some of the cops at the police station. Trying to remember...

  20. #20
    Slayer TimeTravellingBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    5,771
    Thanks
    5,558
    Thanked 4,701 Times in 2,220 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Londinium View Post
    I think it's a thin line but the point was that Willow had killed people when she went all Dark. In S7 she's saying to Giles how she killed people and how she doesn't know whether her friends will take her back. It's a different level of emotional response to killing someone compared to trying to do so but failing. Especially when Willow could explain away Warren's 2nd 'death', which she doesn't know about yet, as occuring because Buffy destroyed the seed. Warren should have stayed dead, it just works better for Willow's character imo. As it stands now her belief in the crimes she committed and how she needs redemption is probably lesser because Warren is still alive (as far as she knows) despite being turned into some horrible skinless monster by her.
    She did murder him. Blaming it on the breaking of the Seed would be like blaming a power cut for the death of the person you shot with the intention of killing but left in a coma, connected to the life-support machines.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregor View Post
    Didn't Willow also kill other people? It looked like she had killed the dark magic guy (Rack?) when she sucked all his mojo out of him. She certainly could have killed some of the cops at the police station. Trying to remember...
    I think it was just Rack and Warren.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    I didn't imply that - but your idea is very interesting.
    We know that Joss loves to surpass himself. After the space-frak, Joss needs something very sensational and controversial to outdo it.
    Joss admitted that they went too OTT in season 8, and the idea of season 9 is "back to the basics", not "let's try to outdo the craziness of season 8".

    As for controversial, meh, I can think of many things that would be even more controversial and shocking... it doesn't mean that they would make any sense or be a good idea or be faithful to the characters. (I was going to write some crazy ideas just as examples, but in the spirit of keeping the conversation on a certain level, I decided not to. )
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •