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Thread: Buffy s8 Comic Section Removed

  1. #21
    ninja scientist Ehlwyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie
    I'm glad to hear you say you understand that -- because sometimes the announcements and warnings have sounded like you think we are just bad people. I wasn't in the fandom when the show was on the air, but my understanding is that acrimony was very, very common.
    Hi Maggie! Thanks for posting your thoughts!

    I do not think anyone is a bad person. I also think for the most part, people get along well here.

    I dislike having to enforce rules, because I know everyone here is a good person and has just let their emotions get out of hand. I adore this forum and want everyone to have as much fun discussing fandom topics as I do. I have shy tendencies and if I had come to this forum in the past couple years, I would have been too intimidated to post.

    Yes, there has always been arguments, but in recent years, this forum has taken a turn to more rude and sarcastic comments. Maybe it is because people forget which forum they are on. However, I feel more likely that once one person acts aggressive then other people think it is acceptable or that they feel they have to defend themselves by striking back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie
    This I haven't been aware of. I don't know if I have VIP status or even what it is. I've been around for years now, but maybe it takes some special recognition or something. I wasn't aware of forum parties or open houses. To be clear, I haven't been seeking out that stuff - but mostly because it never occurred to me that it exists. I'm not sure where your advertisements have been placed. It's possible I missed them because I find I spend enough time as it is on the one section I frequent most often.
    That's a shame to know, but thanks for sharing that you didn't realize there were events. I made Announcements (these appear at the top of every section) and created a section in the Misc Section with several threads labeled so they would appear in the New Posts. For Halloween, I changed the forum banner. The other was our annual birthday celebration in February. They are fairly informal things to just say hi and spam with others.

    BF has always been about the community and the members. I was hoping that maybe the various shippers might come out and meet each other and realize that even if you ship opposing couples that maybe you have other things in common. Knowing a person beyond just opinions on Buffy can sometimes make you better understand why they have those opinions on Buffy.

    The VIP is a section available to anyone who has more than 400 posts. It is located just above this section. Mostly it is just a place to introduce yourself and take a break from the rest of the forum. I'm always looking for new people to pop into the section.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa Lola
    I can understand why S8 includes rude posts, it's new canon, new developments are happening, emotions ought to run high. I was there when the show was still on air (S6 and S7) and it was scarier than now. Wow, the rudeness! It's a must with new canon. People become frustrated with new storylines and lash out.
    Thank for posting Sosa Lola! I think you make a very good point that it is probably mostly related to ship discussions. Your description of new "canon" making S* so volatile is so well put and definitely also how I feel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa Lola
    I don't like when someone's opinion is belittled and laughed at just because people have a different opinion. I know I must have lost my temper a lot and said inappropriate things that I wanna beat myself over. The best solution is to take a step back from a discussion, cool down, and then return with a rational reply. Actually replying objectively without sarcastic comments makes your post more plausible.
    Well said. We all lose our temper, I understand that. I just want people to think before we post. Sometimes just writing out what I think cools me down. Then as I read through it, I realize that if I post it, all I am going to do perpetuate negativity. And worse, weaken any strong points I have in my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny
    I don't think that there has been any more rudeness in the S8 section than in the other sections where there's a debate going on. If there are more rude posts in S8, it's because there are a lot more posts in general.
    Thanks for posting TTB! I appreciate the observation about the evolution of the Spuffy threads.

    I agree, S8 has the most arguments because there is the most debating. I haven't been trying to pick on S8, but most people who are in other heated Jossverse discussions are also posting the S8 section.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sienna
    Well, as mods you have to do what you feel is in the best interest for the kind of forum you want to run. For the record though, I was also in the Harry Potter fandom for a few years, and the level of discussion on the Season 8 comic threads was incredibly tame compared to that and relatively mature. However, I can understand if you want to keep it that way. I think though that sometimes people will need to understand that when you're debating something, things will get heated and as long as people commit to playing the ball instead of the man, things discussions should be allowed to evolve.
    Hi Sienna! Thanks for posting!

    Fandoms in general are hostile places and get a bad rep. It's a shame because there are a lot of calm insightful people that are equally devoted to shows. I absolutely agree people need be able to see the difference between being attacked and someone just passionately giving an opinion. It works both ways. And I don't want to curb anyone's opinion, I just want members to consider if how they are saying it is the calmest way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    I'm a Mod on another Buffy Forum, so I get why the Mods here are fed up with member behaviour; However, I've just got to tell you that you've got a great discussion forum here! It actually has discussions (not just a series of short comments as so many forums do) - This is THE place to come for in-depth, thoughtful, intellegent Buffy conversation and most of that takes place in the season 8 threads. I have never found things particularly bad or offensive here. Most people seem quite well behaved even when things get tense or argumentative. I really hope you bring the season 8 threads back soon because I have a real affection for this place
    Hi Tranquility! Thank you for your comments, I'm glad you feel that way because I feel much the same about the quality of discussions.

    It might not be prominent in my announcement, but I am only taking the section down for three days. Everything is there and everything will return.

    I have some prep work to do before I will return the section so I am going to focus on it rather than reply to everyone in the section. I really appreciate all the comments and observations by everyone.

    Lydia made the punch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainOats View Post
    All of the posts above have summarized many of my feelings quite well. I agree with Mogs that there was definitely a feeling of being unwanted lately. I sympathize with you for having to take such extreme measures, but I feel when you’re never seen or heard from except to hand out punishments--it doesn’t always send out a nice message. Obviously a mod cannot be expected to participate in every discussion or be involved with all aspects of the forum, but if there was at least one of you keeping things in check, posting often, and spreading happiness there might not be so many issues. With that said, I do think more members should actively be trying to post outside of the S8 section though. The parties you set up were a great chance to make new friends and keep everyone happy.
    I'm not sure about speaking my mind about this for various reasons but I'm afraid also agree with this observation.

    Yes, I'm sure certain mods on here are wonderful people, but for some of us all they've ever seen of some people are them sweeping down to issues penalties and warnings and then disappearing again and that has a tendency to not only destroy an ongoing debate stone dead but create bad feeling in the way in which it's been handled. Not a popular opinion I'm sure, but you want honest answers, well thats how It come across to me at least.

    I've been on many many fanboards for all sorts of fandoms and seen far, far worse behavior, which has been handled extremely well by forums mods long before things went too far and without resorting to bans or lifting entire sections out of use.

    Having a board take out an entire section for a few days is a new one on me I'm afraid and what kind of feelings thats going to induce in people If/when they return is anyones guess.

    Also I agree with those who say that heated debates just aren't confined to season 8 as I've also seen stuff going on in both the Xander themed threads as well as shipper threads, but If you visit any other fan board I think thats par for the corse. Things get heated because people are passionate about what they're writing. Of course you cant let people tear verbal chucks off each other, but at the same time I have to say things could have been handled a tad differently in some cases. But I know thats probably just me as I've seem to have fallen foul of certain mods quite a few times in the past.

    I'm speaking for myself here, but I'd rather have heated debates then stagnation and silence, but then this place isn't my board nor is it a democracy. It's more a kinda 'Your house, your rules' kinda thing.
    Last edited by sueworld; 13-05-11 at 10:42 AM.

  3. #23
    Detective Veverka's Avatar
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    I've long avoided the season eight section, but it's been a long time since I've been a member here for the Buffy discussion- these days I pop in and out for the genuine friendship I have with people here, and it makes me sorry to think that people are so busy arguing/insulting on a section of the forum that they forget to make friends with people. I love this place, and I hope when season 8 section is put up again, I can join it as I re-read the comics.

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    Library Researcher Amber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainOats View Post
    Oh I didn't mean that at all honey! I'm fully aware of how helpful, kind, and loving she is. My comments were in no way intended to be nasty, so I apologize if they came across that way.
    Okie dokie, just doing my duty as a friend to protect her lol

  5. #25
    ninja scientist Ehlwyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainOats
    I sympathize with you for having to take such extreme measures, but I feel when you’re never seen or heard from except to hand out punishments--it doesn’t always send out a nice message. Obviously a mod cannot be expected to participate in every discussion or be involved with all aspects of the forum, but if there was at least one of you keeping things in check, posting often, and spreading happiness there might not be so many issues. With that said, I do think more members should actively be trying to post outside of the S8 section though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sueworld
    Yes, I'm sure certain mods on here are wonderful people, but for some of us all they've ever seen of some people are them sweeping down to issues penalties and warnings and then disappearing again and that has a tendency to not only destroy an ongoing debate stone dead but create bad feeling in the way in which it's been handled. Not a popular opinion I'm sure, but you want honest answers, well thats how It come across to me at least.
    It's not an unpopular opinion, I agree that mods and other members should be getting out into the forums to create a more round image of themselves! It's my goal every day to try to find a topic to post in. Thank you each for posting.

    Sadly real life always comes into play and sometimes real life events far outweigh any duty to the forum. This goes for everyone. I'm not making excuses, because I agree with both of you and want to be out there in all the sections more. I was actually making very good headway just a couple weeks ago when things took a turn for the worse in some members' behaviors.

    This is my continual conundrum. My main goal is to promote activity in sections that are waning. I am also someone who prefers to say something only if it is new to the discussion. I regularly browse the Jossverse threads. I make posts when I have free time on the forum. Also, it is not uncommon for me to be disappointed with the tone of a thread I was going to post in, and instead of living with it, making pms or warning people, I just walk away and let the posting members enjoy what they are doing. If I was to post ignoring something serious, then it would be perceived the same as endorsing it.

    Even if the mods were more active posters in Buffy or S8, I feel it would create new problems. Instead of a neutral position, our modding warnings might be interpreted as favoritism, siding with our ships, and throwing our power around because someone dared to question our interpretation. Not that I think most of the members would feel that way and obviously I don't think the mods are spiteful as that. However, I feel it is hard for anyone to receive any type of notice requesting a change in behavior.

    When mods make an authoritative post in threads, it is because we are trying to stop the conversation dead rather than let a bad post continue to be quoted and responded too. We also will have notified the parties who made the comment giving them some explanation of why it isn't acceptable. Usually the discussion starts back up in a more appropriate tone.

    Mods could just delete comments, but that is really something the mods don't believe in. We believe members have the right to give their opinions in the way they want, and then be judged by the members for those posts. However, I feel that this mechanism isn't working and requires a reset.

    I took the section down in order to create a cool off period. I gave an announcement with an explanation and a specific time of three days in which it would be returned. The removal of the forum was not done in response to any specific incident. This is a planned moved by me in order to reboot the section, hopefully in a manner which will give the section a fresh start in attitude. Consequentially leading to me and other mods having more time to devote to posting and other fun forum things.

    Lydia made the punch!

  6. #26
    Scooby Gang Kiera's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity, is the Angel comics section having the same problems and if so, are they going to be removed too? Moreso asking for a friend than myself, but it seems like the Buffy-centric ones were a little more on the intense side.

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    Agent 1.3 Llywela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiera View Post
    Just out of curiosity, is the Angel comics section having the same problems and if so, are they going to be removed too? Moreso asking for a friend than myself, but it seems like the Buffy-centric ones were a little more on the intense side.
    The Angel comics don't seem to attract the same levels of aggression as the Buffy comics, no. Like I said, more than 90% of the posts reported to the moderators come from the Season 8 subforum, and that's a statistic that tells it's own story, unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiera View Post
    Just out of curiosity, is the Angel comics section having the same problems and if so, are they going to be removed too? Moreso asking for a friend than myself, but it seems like the Buffy-centric ones were a little more on the intense side.
    Personally I think thats because the interest/traffic in that section is very low rather then anything else.

  9. #29
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
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    I think the "Angel" forum draws less contention because it draws less attention. To me, that's most of the effect we're seeing on Season 8 compared to the forum at large. We have very literate and sophisticated fans, especially for a forum this large, but in, for instance, the detailed discussion threads of shows like "The Vampire Diaries" and "Supernatural", the posters there have known each other so well and so long that the conversations are more like a seminar, a study group. Those forums are a community of contemplative friends; Season 8 has drawn a pile of opinionated strangers. The level of courtesy shown is necessarily different, and it follows that the moderating work is more intensive than other forums. I don't think that it's because Season 8 has drawn a different caliber of poster, just A) more of them, and B) less familiar ones, who people feel less obliged to show deference.

    I think it might have to do with the name on the door -- people see Buffyforums, and they think "this is the place to go talk about Buffy". If it were Supernaturalforums, maybe it would be the Supernatural forum that caught passers by who had no connection to the regular posters and started getting up to a ruckus.

    That all aside, Season 8 isn't like some sort of cesspool of discussion, it's just where all the action is. I'm not surprised that most of the reports come from there; most of the posts do.

    I would join with those hopeful of the mods actively indulging in Season 8 threads, fearless of perceived bias. Intelligent people can tell the difference between "I like Spuffy, and I'm infracting you, BangelusUberfan12, because you don't like Spuffy" and "I like Spuffy, and I'm infracting you, BangelusUberfan12, because you suggested another Spuffy fan perform an anatomically impossible act". Alas, I think general disinterest in Season 8 is as big a problem as any in that regard. I've read mods' discussions of other shows; I would love that level of enthusiasm for Season 8, but if it doesn't do it for ya, it doesn't do it for ya.

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    I think it might have to do with the name on the door -- people see Buffyforums, and they think "this is the place to go talk about Buffy". If it were Supernaturalforums, maybe it would be the Supernatural forum that caught passers by who had no connection to the regular posters and started getting up to a ruckus.

    That all aside, Season 8 isn't like some sort of cesspool of discussion, it's just where all the action is. I'm not surprised that most of the reports come from there; most of the posts do.
    Exactly. Well said.

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    Slayer Supporter vampmogs's Avatar
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    I do think the section would run more smoothly if any of the mods participated more in the discussions, but the problem is that none of the mods are S8 fans (or up to date with it) so how could they possibly join in? That's the problem, and it's a hard one to get around because the mods can't be forced to read something they dislike and/or are uninterested in but at the same time it does make you feel pretty isolated. That’s what I was talking about earlier when I said how the other BtVS boards (such as Slayalive etc) have started focusing almost completely on the comics now and the mods are all fans/readers and join in on the discussions. Whereas, Buffyforums has really started shifting to other TV shows/fandoms over the past few years and a lot of the mods have moved on from Buffy (in the sense that they’re not heavily involved in BtVS fandom now) so this place has a very different atmosphere.

    When you’re posting in the S8 section it almost feels like you’re posting on a completely different board than when you go into, say, the VIP section or the Supernatural section etc. However, I have to agree with Ehlwyen that it’s a two way street and a lot of the S8 fans never venture into other sections of the forum as well. There’s just been a real splintering on the boards and I actually wonder if that’s one of the reasons a lot of people have been ignoring the mods and their repeated warnings. I’m not trying to excuse that behaviour, I’m just saying that it might be a contributing factor as it really feels like you’re out on your own in the S8 section away from the rest of the board and if people felt the mods presence more than maybe things would change.


    I'm sorry to hear that a lot of members read S8 but aren't participating in the discussions because of all the negativity. Quite frankly, I'm sick of it too and it's a bit depressing to know it's driving away other people. It's bad enough now that the forum is set on private (and I know why it is and it can't be helped so please don't think I'm taking a dig 'cause I'm not) because now there's going to be even less chance of getting new members joining in. People used to join the forum because they'd lurk and read the discussions, which now they can't do, so we're not going to get a lot of new blood into the discussions. I really hope that once the section does come back that the tone of the conversations change because I'd really love for more people to join in on the discussions and offer different opinions into the mix. I love discussing the comics with the group we have here but I'd certainly welcome some fresh blood.
    Last edited by vampmogs; 14-05-11 at 04:29 AM.

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    When you’re posting in the S8 section it almost feels like you’re posting on a completely different board than when you go into, say, the VIP section or the Supernatural section etc. However, I have to agree with Ehlwyen that it’s a two way street and a lot of the S8 fans never venture into other sections of the forum as well.
    Well (and I'm only speaking for myself here) In the past I've gone and posted in other areas of the board. I post in the art sections (for what it's worth) as well as the 'other show' sections and and I also tried going in the VIP section in the distant past, but I didn't feel comfortable there really. It felt to me like most people who post in there have their own little tight circle of friends (which is totally fine of course) and that It's quite difficult to fit in. But again maybe thats just me.

    People used to join the forum because they'd lurk and read the discussions, which now they can't do, so we're not going to get a lot of new blood into the discussions.
    And yes, I also can't but help feel locking the board down won't exactly encourage new members. I also couldn't help but notice Enisy inquired about that very subject ages ago in this section and nobody even bothered to answer her for some weird reason.
    Last edited by sueworld; 14-05-11 at 08:06 PM.

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    ninja scientist Ehlwyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    When you’re posting in the S8 section it almost feels like you’re posting on a completely different board than when you go into, say, the VIP section or the Supernatural section etc. However, I have to agree with Ehlwyen that it’s a two way street and a lot of the S8 fans never venture into other sections of the forum as well. There’s just been a real splintering on the boards and I actually wonder if that’s one of the reasons a lot of people have been ignoring the mods and their repeated warnings. I’m not trying to excuse that behaviour, I’m just saying that it might be a contributing factor as it really feels like you’re out on your own in the S8 section away from the rest of the board and if people felt the mods presence more than maybe things would change.
    For the most part, no one has been ignoring the mods. It is mostly that as soon as we put out a fire with one person, it starts up with another person. This is why I feel it is an atmosphere problem as opposed to something from arising from members. I think it is a case of people seeing others act in a way and then they follow suit.

    I really don't have any suggestion right now of motivating people to venture out if they only want to focus on one area. I'm open to any though.

    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs
    I'm sorry to hear that a lot of members read S8 but aren't participating in the discussions because of all the negativity. Quite frankly, I'm sick of it too and it's a bit depressing to know it's driving away other people. It's bad enough now that the forum is set on private (and I know why it is and it can't be helped so please don't think I'm taking a dig 'cause I'm not) because now there's going to be even less chance of getting new members joining in. People used to join the forum because they'd lurk and read the discussions, which now they can't do, so we're not going to get a lot of new blood into the discussions. I really hope that once the section does come back that the tone of the conversations change because I'd really love for more people to join in on the discussions and offer different opinions into the mix. I love discussing the comics with the group we have here but I'd certainly welcome some fresh blood.
    I feel so bad about the forum being on private as a whole. I am really hoping we get to change that back soon. I don't know about any of the specs of our server. Anyway, I know I hate to join a forum without being able to see what it is about first.

    Yeah, quickly off the top of my head, I can think of 9 long time members that have read the comics and mentioned to me that they don't like to venture into the S8 because it is too negative. We actually have several people making art for the comics because it is easier to express an opinion about the show in that manner than to get caught up in a lot of drama. Obviously it takes courage to post in a discussion thread, but I wish the S8 threads felt a little more welcoming.

    I too love fresh blood! I get so excited to see new faces posting in the other shows section. I know whenever a new person posts in the VIP, I welcome them and try to start a conversation. Most of the members are equally welcoming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sueworld
    I also tried going in the VIP section in the distant past, but I didn't feel comfortable there really. It felt to me like most people who post in there have their own little tight circle of friends (which is totally fine of course) and that It's quite difficult to fit in. But again maybe thats just me.
    It agree, it is so hard to go up to a group of people and just start a conversation without feeling like you are intruding.

    It's really not a tight circle though. There are some people that are more reserved. Or maybe you just hit the thread on a bad day or an unfamiliar topic?

    Mostly though, the VIP is just people posting randomly while at work and then checking back later to see if anyone replied to them or posted a topic they had something to add too. It used to be people who had lots of free time to hang out and spam. So the place has changed over time.

    Lydia made the punch!

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    Slayer Supporter vampmogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehlwyen View Post
    Yeah, quickly off the top of my head, I can think of 9 long time members that have read the comics and mentioned to me that they don't like to venture into the S8 because it is too negative. We actually have several people making art for the comics because it is easier to express an opinion about the show in that manner than to get caught up in a lot of drama. Obviously it takes courage to post in a discussion thread, but I wish the S8 threads felt a little more welcoming.
    Well that just sucks. I knew of a few people that read S8 but don't want to post in the discussions, but I had no idea there was at least 9 of them. That's a huge number and if all of those people felt comfortable enough to post it would add a lot to the discussions. I actually think of the reasons there's so much friction in that section is because it's always the same people posting and we can all get a little fed up with each other, so it's a little ironic that's also pushing new people away *sigh*

    Hopefully once the section opens up again and we all agree to the rules, then some of those people will want to post again. Maybe when S9 starts in August/September the mods could organize an announcement celebrating the day and inviting people to participate?
    Last edited by vampmogs; 14-05-11 at 08:37 AM.

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    Hi Ehlwyen

    I am new to this forum, so I don't know how bad the situation was before I came. But after that the only place I found having some problems was 'Buffy/Angel moving forward (I hope I got the name of the thread correctly)' thread (trough I haven't checked some other section yet (supernatural)). And even then there wasn't some great personal insulting (flaming, trolling etc). Some members were very passionate about their views. And grew even more passionate after some other member(s) ignore some part(s) of their post(s). This only made them try even harder to prove their point(s).
    Now While I understand why you did this. I can't but feel that it's a little unfair to those members who didn't break rules but are still denied the access to the S8 section. Trough in your case this will be a wake up call for everyone to don't even try to break rules . So yes I agree with what you did but I still find this situation a little unfair.

    You (admins and mods) do an amazing job at this forum. And I know that it's hard for you to check (re-check) every thread to fix problems. So you don't have enough time (especially when you add real life into it) to post in every sub-forum. I know from personal experience that sometimes new members are afraid to have debates with other mods about the subjects those forum(s) are dealing with (like I am). I know of some other forums where mods will give infraction and even ban you if you don't agree with them. But luckily this isn't case here
    So when you mods come into some section/thread and post a warning (in some section where you haven't been posting or it was some time since you posted, which I completely understand on why you can't) with bold and red fonts, some members get scared and feel like they are unwelcome.

    Don't take like I am insulting you or the other mods, I just wanted to post some of this problems. Which may seam like small problems to some, but are infect much bigger.

    Thanks for reading my rambling

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    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    When youíre posting in the S8 section it almost feels like youíre posting on a completely different board than when you go into, say, the VIP section or the Supernatural section etc. However, I have to agree with Ehlwyen that itís a two way street and a lot of the S8 fans never venture into other sections of the forum as well.
    For my part, I haven't tried to venture into the VIP forum - I might try that later. But I've regularly posting (and starting threads) in all Buffy and Angel-themed sections: General discussions, Buffy, Angel, Games, Character and ships (when there's something going on there, which happens rarely), Outside the shows, even IDW Angel comics which I'm mostly indifferent to, plus Other shows and Miscellaneous, I lurk in the Fan Art forum since I haven't tried making any art, and I've even ventured at times in Fan Fiction (though it happens rarely because I'm generally not a big fanfic reader).

    I don't go to Supernatural or Vampire Diaries forum because I don't watch these shows, I've seen a few seasons of Smallville but I've lost interest years ago, and I'm far behind with True Blood so I don't want to be spoiled.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  17. #37
    Bug #3 Moscow Watcher's Avatar
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    I watch other shows, but I don't have the urge to talk about them. Jossverse has something magical about it - it attracts me like no other show does (although I regularly lurk at Fanart thread, enjoy all the eye-candies it has. )

    Here's something I want the mods to know about. Right now the arguments on season 8 section are the most interesting, deep and thought-provoking debates I currently see online. Every time I read an especially interesting post, I regret that the board is private and only its members are aware of this wealth of ideas.

  18. #38
    Scooby Gang BloodyHell's Avatar
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    I've mostly given up venturing into the season 8 section, but only because I don't own the comics and haven't even seen the newer ones...so I never understand what is even going on in the discussions. I hate being out of the loop, but RL seems to have taken over the time I used to have to get really invested in a 'verse.

    Anyway, I just wanted to comment that I support whatever the mods feel they need to do to maintain this boards high quality of posting and curtesy. For the most part, this forum is friendly, intelligent, and worth taking the time to post in. I want it to stay this way...I really, REALLY appreciate that spam, cattyness and one liners are not allowed. I appreciate the comic section being here, because I want this forum to stay alive and vital, even if I'm not in it myself.
    I have loved you. - Ser Jorah Mormont

  19. #39
    ninja scientist Ehlwyen's Avatar
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    I'm closing this thread now since the section is going back up. Any comments can go in the new announcement thread.

    Lydia made the punch!

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