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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    No, I don't think we are supposed to believe that those charred corpses have been Bran and Rickon. Those have most certainly been the kids of the family that lived on the farm. Of course, Theon wants the people of Winterfell to believe that the corspes are the Stark boys in order to make them compliant. That's why he sent Maester Luwin back to Winterfell before they had even found the kids, so he couldn't witness the deception. If Luwin believes the kids to be dead, everyone else will follow without question.

    Exactly. But anyway, Theon is a killer and coward . He killed those children and even then, when they are not Bran and Rickon , his crime is not less awfull. I hate him on the second place after "king" Joff.


    And, just for the reckord - if they follow the canon , Tywin has nothing to do with Arya , so even if he trys to prtetend to be good with her, he has no idea who she really is.
    Last edited by _Buffy_; 15-05-12 at 07:33 PM.
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    Where has Varys dissapeared to? I like Varys, he is funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Buffy_ View Post
    Exactly. But anyway, Theon is a killer and coward . He killed those children and even then, when they are not Bran and Rickon , his crime is not less awfull. I hate him on the second place after "king" Joff.


    And, just for the reckord - if they follow the canon , Tywin has nothing to do with Arya , so even if he trys to prtetend to be good with her, he has no idea who she really is.
    Just because something is slightly different in the books and show, doesn't make it not canon, it makes it canon to one but not the other. So they may choose to not follow the books in every aspect, but I think that's smart- different mediums need different focuses in some cases. I enjoy having as much screen time of Tywin as we do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veverka View Post
    Just because something is slightly different in the books and show, doesn't make it not canon, it makes it canon to one but not the other. So they may choose to not follow the books in every aspect, but I think that's smart- different mediums need different focuses in some cases. I enjoy having as much screen time of Tywin as we do.

    But in the way how he is shown he is not Tywin for me anymore. The "original" Tywin is cruel and mean and evil . This one on screen is like his pale copy.The "original" Tywin would never interseted if his servent is hungry, for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Well, I happen to like the slow pacing of the first season. With a show as complex as GoT I always find that a slow pacing and a careful introduction/exploration of the characters and a gradual world building is the right way to go if you want to make sure your viewers don't get lost. They may move quicker this season, but as a result I feel some of the depth is lost. I find myself checking up on story details/character backgrounds/location history way more often this season than the last, only to have a better grasp on what's happening, and I think that's not something I should need to do. The TV show should be able to stand on its own.
    I agree with you - I much prefer the development of the story and characters of the first season - IMO, unless you read the books with this season you are missing a lot of important elements of the novels. I can certainly understand that the novels must be condensed and make changes made if they are going to follow the amount of episodes.

    Personally, I felt that there was a huge amount of screen time wasted on the Jon-Ygrite scenes in the last episode. I don't see much benefit for advancing the story with this treatment, I would have preferred scenes with the confrontation between The Crows and the Wildlings which was what is important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Buffy_ View Post
    But in the way how he is shown he is not Tywin for me anymore. The "original" Tywin is cruel and mean and evil . This one on screen is like his pale copy.The "original" Tywin would never interseted if his servent is hungry, for example.
    That is why you should see the TV show as its own canon. The show is based on the books, nothing more, nothing less. The producers were never going to realise the books 1:1, they adapted it for the screen and changes are inevitable. GRRM works closely with the production team and it doesn't seem that he had any objections to the deviations from the source material. I mean, for a writer who even forbids fanfiction based on his books to allow these changes, he must have been okay with them.

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  8. #107
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    So I enjoyed this week's episode not quite as much as 2.07 but it did set up things nicely for next week's epicness. Jaime and Brienne are fun together (as I knew they would be! ) but I would have loved to see the actual scene between Cat, Jaime and Brienne prior to the escape, book spoiler
    Spoiler:
    including Brienne's oath to Cat that she would bring Jaime to King's Landing in exchange for Arya and Sansa. That was such a powerful scene in the book and I'm very sad that they cut it. Maybe we will see it in a flashback later on?
    Even though I strongly sympathise with Cat (and as a Jaime fan am of course glad that he is on the run), I could understand Robb putting his mother under arrest as she openly defied him. Not sure what to make of Robb and his love interest, seeing as it is so different from the books. Plus the Freys won't be happy if Robb doesn't honour their deal.

    As much as I enjoyed all the Tywin and Arya scenes, I'm glad that her storyline is moving forward now with her, Gendry and Hotpie's escape from Harrenhal.

    I guess nobody was suprised that Bran and Rickon are still alive but it was still nice to see the boys safe in the crypts of Winterfell.

    After last week's episode showed us a softer side of Cersei, this week she was full on evil again. Luckily for Tyrion, she captured the wrong whore. Still, Shae and Tyrion should be more careful, Cersei has spies everywhere.

    And speaking of spies, how does Varys know so much about Dany and her dragons? I can't remember if this was mentioned in the book or if the show changed this.

    I cannot wait to see next week's episode, appropriately titled "Blackwater". It's gonna be epic!

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    I was a bit bored by this episode, it was an obvious build up for the last two episodes where everything will happen. The only moment I really loved was the scene between Theon and his sister. And I'm glad that Arya escaped, it was interesting to see her and Tywin talk at first but it's time to move on. Curious where they will go now.

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    Like others I found this episode to be really boring--the only parts I liked were Jaimie/Brienne (so entertaining, I can't wait to see more of their ~road trip! ), Yara's speech to Theon (the baby story omg so touching and unexpected, given her attitude towards him so far!), and Dany touching Ser Jorah's face...(I ship it like whoah, what can I say. ). Oh and the last bit of Tywin/Arya interaction...I will miss their little interludes.

    I hope next week is much better, which it sounds like it will be...

    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Well, I happen to like the slow pacing of the first season. With a show as complex as GoT I always find that a slow pacing and a careful introduction/exploration of the characters and a gradual world building is the right way to go if you want to make sure your viewers don't get lost. They may move quicker this season, but as a result I feel some of the depth is lost. I find myself checking up on story details/character backgrounds/location history way more often this season than the last, only to have a better grasp on what's happening, and I think that's not something I should need to do. The TV show should be able to stand on its own.
    Well frankly I found the first season to be just as confusing, or perhaps even more so (since at least this season going in I am already familiar with the land and many of the characters, unlike with last season). *shrug* Different strokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    The interaction between Arya and Tywin is one of the highlights of the second season for me. It may not happen in the books, but it works very well for the TV show, because it gives Arya's story more gravity and adds interesting layers to Tywin's character. I don't think the writers show Tywin as a good guy; he is clearly ruthless, but he is not a one-dimensional villain and I enjoy that. I think for the TV show it is way more important to have steady characters than it is for the books. The sheer number of characters in this show is confusing as it is, so I think it is good to replace non-essential characters from the books with already established characters, especially if it works as well as it does with Tywin and Arya.
    I agree with all of this--I think it was an excellent choice for the show/change from the book, and works really well. There is nothing wrong with fleshing out characters to be more well-rounded. I find one-dimensional, plain evil villains to be the most boring villains of all, a villain has to have some softer side or capability for love and affection to be truly great, interesting, and effective, IMO. And the tension in their scenes, and the "if only he knew!!!" element to it...definitely one of the highlights of the season for me, I'm sad to see them part ways now. I hope he realizes later who she was, I'd love to see his reaction to that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cori View Post
    Even though I strongly sympathise with Cat (and as a Jaime fan am of course glad that he is on the run), I could understand Robb putting his mother under arrest as she openly defied him. Not sure what to make of Robb and his love interest, seeing as it is so different from the books. Plus the Freys won't be happy if Robb doesn't honour their deal.
    I'm pretty sure Talisa is supposed to be Jeyne from the books (from what I've heard)...I was reading a critique of the episode on LJ that was saying how the show is suffering from shifting the timeline, because Cat is supposed to let Jaimie go only *after* she hears about Bran and Rickon's "deaths," which makes her desperation to save her remaining two children that much more understandable--and that Robb falls for Jeyne because she comforts him in his grief over the boys. To me this sounds valid, and I wish they had done this--I don't see why she couldn't have heard about the deaths first.

    I guess nobody was suprised that Bran and Rickon are still alive but it was still nice to see the boys safe in the crypts of Winterfell.
    Well I wasn't sure myself, I thought they were dead until I saw the posts here (since I haven't read the books, and get the impression almost everyone dies horribly at some point anyway! ), so it was nice confirmation, though poor Bran overhearing that!

    After last week's episode showed us a softer side of Cersei, this week she was full on evil again.
    Eh, I disagree, she was clearly motivated by love for her son, and fear for her safety, as well as the grief still over her daughter, all of which I can sympathize with. I thought her worried speech about her one child being taken from her to be shipped to Dorne and her other possibly dying paralleled Cat's own concerns about the danger all of her children were in, and her desire to keep them safe and not lose them all. I would hardly call this "full on evil."

    And speaking of spies, how does Varys know so much about Dany and her dragons? I can't remember if this was mentioned in the book or if the show changed this.
    Well how did he know about her in season 1? He seems to be her supporter (though I don't want to be book-spoiled on this one), and has a special interest in her, so I assume he just has "birds" out there reporting to him...I liked his little mention of her, reminding Tyrion and the others that another contender to the throne is out there--and it made a nice transition to that small Dany scene. I just really enjoyed Varys in this episode period, especially his snark with Tyrion about Joffrey, lol.
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  11. #110
    Bad Boy Lover Cori's Avatar
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    Now that was just awesome! It felt more like a movie than a TV show. I knew that they would have to cut some stuff from the battle but they still did the epicness of the battle from the book justice. Of course George R. R. Martin wrote this week's episode so he made sure that the epicness stayed intact.

    All the things I wanted to see where there: Tyrion's speech, Joffrey being a coward (too bad he wasn't killed by Stannis' army), the Hound telling Joffrey to eff off and fleeing the battle because of the fire and then waiting in Sansa's room, all the Cersei and Sansa scenes (especially drunk!Cersei, she was hilarious at times and then so very deadly again, I really don't like her new interest in Shae), Tyrion becoming a leader, the Tyrells coming to the rescue (although I didn't count on Tywin Lannister appearing as well, that was different from the book), the scary but somehow strangely beautiful wildfire, the whole epic scale of the battle, etc. etc. No wonder they used up most of the budget for this season for this one episode! I wanted to see a bit more of the Onion Knight though, he was only there at the beginning. I'm just gonna assume that they will show what happened to him during the rest of the battle next week.

    I also loved that they included some great foreshadowing (books 3 and 4 spoilers):
    Spoiler:
    Cersei and little Thommen sitting on the Iron Throne and Cersei with the little bottle of poison in her hand gave me the chills!


    Only one episode to go and then this season will already be over! Why can't HBO give GoT longer seasons? Well at least they will split the third book into two seasons (that's what I read somewhere anyway), which is a good thing because so much happens.

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    Damn, that was a truly impressive hour of television. I agree, Cori, it felt more like a movie than a television show. In fact, I was reminded of the battle at Helm's Deep from the Lord of the Rings movies. The curious thing about watching the battle was that I didn't exactly know who to root for. I mean, of course I cheered for Tyrion, but the whole time I thought if Tyrion wins that means that Joffrey will continue to rule and I'd rather see his head on a pike. On the other hand, Stannis winning didn't seem to be the preferable alternative either. If anything he has proven to be a ruthless and cold leader as well, so I doubt he would make a much better king. Anyway, I loved that the epic battle was set off by a wealth of character scenes; it made the episode more personal. The scenes between Cersei and Sansa were fanatastic, as were the scenes between Sansa and the Hound or Tyrion and Joffrey. Of course, every single moment with Tyrion in it was just great. Every time I think I can't possibly love his character more, he proves me wrong. The way he stepped up to the plate here and lead the king's men into battle was just amazing. I admit, I teared up when the troops started to chant 'half man'. I wonder though, to me it looked like he was struck down by one of the king's guard. Did Joffrey order him to kill his uncle or what happened there? Can anyone clear that up for me?

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    Great episode, especially the tension inside the keep (Cersei's commentary) coupled with the action and such outside...it was nice to have an entire episode in one place on one storyline, the first time ever for this show. And Cersei's scene with Tommen was the highlight for me, so eerie and touching at the same time...she does love her children.

    Tyrion and Sansa are also great speech-makers, loved them in this epp!

    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    Damn, that was a truly impressive hour of television. I agree, Cori, it felt more like a movie than a television show. In fact, I was reminded of the battle at Helm's Deep from the Lord of the Rings movies. The curious thing about watching the battle was that I didn't exactly know who to root for. I mean, of course I cheered for Tyrion, but the whole time I thought if Tyrion wins that means that Joffrey will continue to rule and I'd rather see his head on a pike. On the other hand, Stannis winning didn't seem to be the preferable alternative either. If anything he has proven to be a ruthless and cold leader as well, so I doubt he would make a much better king. Anyway, I loved that the epic battle was set off by a wealth of character scenes; it made the episode more personal. The scenes between Cersei and Sansa were fanatastic, as were the scenes between Sansa and the Hound or Tyrion and Joffrey. Of course, every single moment with Tyrion in it was just great. Every time I think I can't possibly love his character more, he proves me wrong. The way he stepped up to the plate here and lead the king's men into battle was just amazing. I admit, I teared up when the troops started to chant 'half man'. I wonder though, to me it looked like he was struck down by one of the king's guard. Did Joffrey order him to kill his uncle or what happened there? Can anyone clear that up for me?
    I agree, re: not knowing who to root for, but for the sake of the women in the keep and such I was rooting for Tyrion to win...
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    Did you guys notice the song in the end of episode ? This song ..." The Rain of Castamir " is very often mention in the book and with very importants scenes. I knew the text of the song but it was really hilarius and awesome to hear it in the show.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Buffy_ View Post
    Did you guys notice the song in the end of episode ? This song ..." The Rain of Castamir " is very often mention in the book and with very importants scenes. I knew the text of the song but it was really hilarius and awesome to hear it in the show.
    Ooh thanks, I was wondering what people were talking about with the "Rains of Castamere"...it was a pretty song!
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Buffy_ View Post
    Did you guys notice the song in the end of episode ? This song ..." The Rain of Castamir " is very often mention in the book and with very importants scenes. I knew the text of the song but it was really hilarius and awesome to hear it in the show.
    Quote Originally Posted by sherrilina View Post
    Ooh thanks, I was wondering what people were talking about with the "Rains of Castamere"...it was a pretty song!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=kOfTvtWYBek

    It's Tywins song. Written for him after he completely wiped a rebel house from existence, it's often played to scare the shit out of people

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  18. #116
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    Sky, this link doesn't work.

    Try this, I just listen the song here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0xu7P-zzsk
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Buffy_ View Post
    Sky, this link doesn't work.

    Try this, I just listen the song here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0xu7P-zzsk
    It worked when I posted it. Damn copyright holders

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    For a big part of the episode I felt that it didn't live up after last episode. But damn that ending, first those poor young boys and the end of winterfell, then Dany in the tower and the ending with the whitewalkers... since the beginning of last season I was waiting for those... poor Sam though.

    Also the treatment of Tyron, why? I understand Tywin taking over as the hand, but Tyron deserves some credits... that family is cold.


    Robb bores me to death, I can't help myself I FF all his scenes. Brienne is awesome, her and Jaime are a hilarious team. Jon is meh, but his story brings us at interesting places so there is at least that.
    I don't understand Stannis? He got away from Kings Landing? I must have missed that last episode.
    Last edited by Nina; 04-06-12 at 01:11 PM.

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    Like Nina said, I was bored on the first half of the episode. The most strong part for me was this moment Ė when Dani saw Drogo and the baby. This brief moment makes me cry. It seems so real and in the same time so unreal. Honestly, I canít remember in the book exactly this moment. Iím not sure if she sees Drogo in the magic house. Does she ? She saw a lot of things, but exactly Drogo ? I would remember . Unfortunately she didnít use a fire magic and even she didnít looks for her dracons, when she was in the house of the undead. In the book she looks for answers and thatís why I find this line Ė about missing dragons a little pointless. She never lost her dragons.

    Another strong moment it was when The Maister of The Winter Fall saw Bran and Ricon alive . He seems so happy and relieved.

    I donít like the way the show the fight between John Snow and Korin The half hand. If the viewer didnít read the book, he canít figure what the idea was. And the idea was Ė that it was Corinís order - John has to kill him and to pretend to be a traitor, to become closer with Mans and the savages, to try to figured his plans and then to run away when he has chance. IMO it was important to be clear that John is not a real traitor, that he didnít want to kill Corin. Even John didnít kill him but his wolf did it. And where was his wolf now, anyway ?

    I also liked Arya and Jacen Gí Haar scene. He is creepy and awesome in same time. I hope in the next books, or season they Ďll meet each other again in Bravoos.

    And the end of episode with ď the armyĒ of all this White Walkers was creepy enough, too. I wander if this rider with the blue eyes is this ď Cold Hands ď who helps Samuel and Bran and Ricon in the books ? May be. He sees Sam and pretend to not see him. Plus, he looks so much to Lord Stark brother Ė Benjen. I canít wait for the next season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Buffy_ View Post
    Unfortunately she didn’t use a fire magic and even she didn’t looks for her dracons, when she was in the house of the undead. In the book she looks for answers and that’s why I find this line – about missing dragons a little pointless. She never lost her dragons.
    Uhm, of course she looked for her dragons. That's why she was in the tower at the first place. She was shown the things she wanted most - the iron throne and her Dothraki family - but the cries of her dragons always pulled her out of the illusion and allowed her to reject the false reality until she was reunited with her 'babies'. She used the fire magic of her dragons to kill the warlock who clearly thought the dragons are still too young to breathe fire. And the fact that she could not be burnt by the fire allowed her to pull that stunt in the first place. So I think those scenes made sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Buffy_ View Post
    I don’t like the way the show the fight between John Snow and Korin The half hand. If the viewer didn’t read the book, he can’t figure what the idea was. And the idea was – that it was Corin’s order - John has to kill him and to pretend to be a traitor, to become closer with Mans and the savages, to try to figured his plans and then to run away when he has chance. IMO it was important to be clear that John is not a real traitor, that he didn’t want to kill Corin. Even John didn’t kill him but his wolf did it.
    It was clear that Halfhand wanted Jon to kill him to win the trust of the Wildlings. Two episodes earlier he told Jon that he "had to do what must be done" in order to be accepted by Mance Ryder and then instantly picked an obviously staged fight with Jon. While I think the writers should have put more effort into establishing the relationship between Jon and Halfhand to make the emotional turmoil Jon experienced at the thought of having to kill the man he respected so much clearer, the idea behind Halfhand's continuous verbal and physical attacks on Jon was telegraphed early on. And as far as I understand it, in the books Ghost only bites Halfhand and Jon delivers the killing blow.

    I liked the episode. It had some very nice character beats and sets the stage for S3 pretty well. Overall I think S2 was not as well rounded as S1. I think it had pacing problems and the focus was sometimes not as well chosen as it could have been, but it still had plenty of fantastic character and mythology work. I can't wait for S3!
    Last edited by galathea; 05-06-12 at 08:49 AM.

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