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Thread: Game of Thrones Discussion

  1. #121
    Scooby Gang cil_domney's Avatar
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    I also think that the treatment for Qhorin Halfhand and Jon Snow was not done well - unless they are going to alter the story in season 3, the viewers are left with a very different impression of this scene. And for Jon Snow, it is even worse, because it seems like he killed Qhorin Halfhand out of anger instead of a terrible call to duty.

    I can certainly see where the changes for Talisa instead of Jeyne were made - it would be difficult to bring in that element in the novel for the series. This new love interest and character allows for Robb to find love with a very interesting female character without having to deal with all the political dynamics involved in the novels.

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    Agent 1.3 Llywela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cil_domney View Post
    I also think that the treatment for Qhorin Halfhand and Jon Snow was not done well - unless they are going to alter the story in season 3, the viewers are left with a very different impression of this scene. And for Jon Snow, it is even worse, because it seems like he killed Qhorin Halfhand out of anger instead of a terrible call to duty.
    I don't think so. Speaking as a casual viewer who has not read the books, I am capable of remembering from a couple of episodes earlier that Qhorin wanted Jon to become a spy within the Wildling camp and took steps to make his supposed defection look plausible. And from what we've been shown of the older, more experienced Night Watchmen, their ruthless dedication to their cause, it doesn't surprise me that he would go as far as sacrificing his own life to getting Jon in with the Wildlings, especially since he knew he was facing certain execution anyway. It was clear to me throughout that that was his intent, with Jon being swept along by it. Yes, Qhorin provoked him to anger, deliberately so to make the fight all the more convincing. And it is a shame that there wasn't time or space to develop the storyline further. But the reasoning behind it was clear to me throughout, without having read the books. I think the bookreaders should give non-readers more credit for being able to follow the story from episode to episode, sub-text, political intricacies and all.

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  4. #123
    Sunnydale Girl _Buffy_'s Avatar
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    I can't say that Dani looks for her dragons in the house of undead. I speak about the novel. She looks for answers - where her path is, what she has to do , how ,...e.t.c... , plus , when she understand nothing, she left the house and makes her way all alone. She didn't kill Ksaro / not sure how to spell his name - the lord of the city/, despite the fact that he didn't help her with boats and money.

    galathea, I think that in the end of the fight Ghoust kills HalfHand. if I'm not wrong , but I'll have to check in book to be sure.
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    Agent 1.3 Llywela's Avatar
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    I think, _Buffy_, that continuing to invest all your energy in analysing the differences between the novels and the show is only ever going to be detrimental to your enjoyment of both, since you seem to disapprove of those changes so much. There are going to be differences all the way through. That is unavoidable. But the fact that the show diverges from the source material at times does not mean it has no value as a story in its own right. That is just how fiction works, always has. The same stories get told and retold in different versions and formats, have done throughout the ages, and are adapted to different audiences and different media, but all have value in and of themselves. The show isn't 'wrong' when it plays certain storylines differently, as you seem to think, it is just telling a slightly different story.

    This thread is for discussion about the show, not the books. Comparisons with the books are inevitable, perhaps, for readers, but should not be the sole focus of posts. I can't speak for what Dany does in the House of the Undying in the books, but on the show she goes there in search of her stolen dragons, as the culmination of her season-long arc. That might have been changed from what happened in the books, but it is how her story has played out in the show. Complaining that it has been changed is pointless, just as it would be pointless of me to complain about the differences between, for example, the British and American versions of Being Human or Life on Mars. The one drew on the other as its source material, but used that source material to tell a slightly different story, and as such they need to be viewed separately. So it is with Game of Thrones. The show draws on the books as source material, and as I understand it tries to be as faithful to that source material as possible, but certain changes are unavoidable due to the inherent differences between the media. Some storylines that work well as a narrative will be difficult if not impossible to translate into a more visual media with limited screen-time, while a visual media will offer opportunities that aren't possible in print. So they need to be viewed separately, really. The show has to stand alone on its merits, rather than being referred back to the books all the time.

    Also, I have noticed a number of book spoilers being posted in this thread. Please do not refer to future events from the books in this thread, which is for discussion of what has already aired on the show only.

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  7. #125
    Scooby Gang cil_domney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llywela View Post
    I don't think so. Speaking as a casual viewer who has not read the books, I am capable of remembering from a couple of episodes earlier that Qhorin wanted Jon to become a spy within the Wildling camp and took steps to make his supposed defection look plausible. And from what we've been shown of the older, more experienced Night Watchmen, their ruthless dedication to their cause, it doesn't surprise me that he would go as far as sacrificing his own life to getting Jon in with the Wildlings, especially since he knew he was facing certain execution anyway. It was clear to me throughout that that was his intent, with Jon being swept along by it. Yes, Qhorin provoked him to anger, deliberately so to make the fight all the more convincing. And it is a shame that there wasn't time or space to develop the storyline further. But the reasoning behind it was clear to me throughout, without having read the books. I think the bookreaders should give non-readers more credit for being able to follow the story from episode to episode, sub-text, political intricacies and all.
    If this is the case - you are correct. My apologies - I will have to go back to watch episodes again. If Qhorin had his instructions or idea that Jon Snow should try to go with the Wildings to gather info then it does change the finale scene.

  8. #126
    Sassenach sherrilina's Avatar
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    I have to echo what others have said, as a casual non-book reader I too understood that it was staged on Qhorin's part, because he EXPLICITLY says so in the previous Jon episode, saying that Jon has to win their trust and then picking the fight with him--and they show this clip in the "Previously" of this episode along with other important and pertinent clips to remind people of this before that final scene. So that is not an issue unless one is really not paying any attention...

    Quote Originally Posted by galathea View Post
    I liked the episode. It had some very nice character beats and sets the stage for S3 pretty well. Overall I think S2 was not as well rounded as S1. I think it had pacing problems and the focus was sometimes not as well chosen as it could have been, but it still had plenty of fantastic character and mythology work. I can't wait for S3!
    I agree it was a solid finale. There were some pacing issues, with the second half slowing down a little before last week, but overall I thought it was a lot better paced than last in terms of excitement (where it only really picked up for me in the final 2-3 episodes). *shrug*

    I liked seeing all of the characters one more time, see where they are in their storylines now, etc, and there were some good cliffhangers--they are certainly limited in what they can work with in terms of having an epic finale. I loved the Dany scenes best, the Drogo hallucination was so sad, the final scene with her dragons was badass, and it's interesting to see her so hardline now--though I think locking her maid who helped her so much during her hard times was a bit harsh... Also poor Tyrion...
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  9. #127
    Sunnydale Girl _Buffy_'s Avatar
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    When you are read the books it is just impossible to do not to compare both. Honestly , the show for me is just for visualization of the characters. That's all. IMO the changes doesn't make the show better. For example, when I read the books Twilight Saga, and then I watched the show, I was satisfied because the line were the same there. IMO the tv show Game of Thronees was changed for a reason , not just because they don't have enough screen time. And also when I don't like something I don't see a reason why I have to pretend that I like it , just because this is disccusioun for the show. I prefer books but the show helps me for the visualization of the characters. And while I read all the five books alreday I don't have what to do exept to watch the show as well.
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    Slayer shipperx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cil_domney View Post
    I also think that the treatment for Qhorin Halfhand and Jon Snow was not done well - unless they are going to alter the story in season 3, the viewers are left with a very different impression of this scene. And for Jon Snow, it is even worse, because it seems like he killed Qhorin Halfhand out of anger instead of a terrible call to duty.
    I don't know whether that was a writing or acting choice. In the show Qhorin told Jon to do what was necessary when the time came in Ep 8. But the way that what's-his-name played the scene it was as if Jon had never figured out what on earth Qhorin was doing!


    I can certainly see where the changes for Talisa instead of Jeyne were made - it would be difficult to bring in that element in the novel for the series. This new love interest and character allows for Robb to find love with a very interesting female character without having to deal with all the political dynamics involved in the novels.
    I don't know that Talisa/Robb worked as well as Jeyne/Robb because in the end it looked more like Robb was defying Catelyn and working on his own wants. Whereas with Jeyne/Robb, part of it really was honor. It was very much that he'd lost his virginity to her and she'd lost hers to him and that she was of a noble (if only minor) family so for honor's sake he needed to marry her. That way it came of as competing forms of honor. It was more sympathetic. This way it really looked like Robb did what he wanted to.


    And one of my biggest gripes in the whole thing (which, don't get me wrong, I'm pretty easy going on the season and enjoyed it. I'm just confused by this change) is why on EARTH did they not have word of Rickon and Bran's 'deaths' reach Robb and Catelyn? It made both their decisions more sympathetic.

    First they hadd Catelyn and Brienne know that Jaime was going to be lynched. If they had then had Brienne and Catelyn take Jaime to prevent his being lynched it would've made sense. If Jaime dies so does Catelyn's daughters (as far as we can tell she still thinks that Arya is as much a hostage as Sansa). Then they have some Raven arrive with word of Bran and Rickon's 'deaths'. That would have made a good point to have Robb sleep with Talisa, partially out of grief. AND it would have been the juncture to have Catelyn decide that she is not going to lose two more children and send Brienne with Jaime. It would have nuanced both of these plots that I think they handed a bit too clumsily.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Buffy_ View Post
    But in the way how he is shown he is not Tywin for me anymore. The "original" Tywin is cruel and mean and evil . This one on screen is like his pale copy.The "original" Tywin would never interseted if his servent is hungry, for example.
    While Tywin was amused enough by Arya scarfing down the meal to allow her to continue, I really thought he offered her the food so that she could act as taster to show him whether or not he had been poisoned. He had just been talking about having nearly been assassinated by poison arrow (not knowing that the arrow had actually reached its intended target).
    Last edited by shipperx; 09-06-12 at 09:14 PM.
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    I don't know whether that was a writing or acting choice. In the show Qhorin told Jon to do what was necessary when the time came in Ep 8. But the way that what's-his-name played the scene it was as if Jon had never figured out what on earth Qhorin was doing!

    I really was left with a more negative impression from this scene - I have not had a chance to watch again but I think it was not handled well because of the derogatory lines about his mother. The scene just left me with that "bad taste in mouth" response.

    While I did very much like Jeyne-Robb in the series - there is not much about there relationship - this other character allows for emphasis on Robb's character and brings in the theme of how miserable this war is. Robb was drawn into by the murder of his father, but all these other groups are fighting for power and conquest; Brienne being another exception. Even Dany is about getting back the family power and Tyrion grows to like the power of his position as Hand; short lived that it is.

  12. #130
    Sassenach sherrilina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shipperx View Post
    I don't know that Talisa/Robb worked as well as Jeyne/Robb because in the end it looked more like Robb was defying Catelyn and working on his own wants. Whereas with Jeyne/Robb, part of it really was honor. It was very much that he'd lost his virginity to her and she'd lost hers to him and that she was of a noble (if only minor) family so for honor's sake he needed to marry her. That way it came of as competing forms of honor. It was more sympathetic. This way it really looked like Robb did what he wanted to.

    And one of my biggest gripes in the whole thing (which, don't get me wrong, I'm pretty easy going on the season and enjoyed it. I'm just confused by this change) is why on EARTH did they not have word of Rickon and Bran's 'deaths' reach Robb and Catelyn? It made both their decisions more sympathetic.
    I agree, I haven't read the book yet but having heard this from others it does seem like they made Robb and Cat seem a lot less sympathetic and intelligent on the show (not to mention lost out on a prime emotional moment) by not having them find out about Rickon and Bran's supposed deaths (at ALL, let alone before they made their respective decisions), and Robb comes off very selfish and foolish in marrying Talisa in this version of events. I don't understand why they did this.

    But I think some of the other changes on the show have worked well, especially with Tywin and Arya's scenes, which was one of the highlights of the season for me.
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    Scooby Gang Sky's Avatar
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    and her haircut. Nina's Avatar
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    You wonder who has so much time on their hands they make such a thing.

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    Sassenach sherrilina's Avatar
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    Speaking of funny videos, have you all seen this one of this mad talented guy doing impressions of many of the male characters on GoT? SO amazingly close to their voices it's eerie, and the Ser Jorah part at the end made tears start streaming down my face, I was laughing so hard...
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    Season 8 is set to return April 2019! 🐉 ❄️ ⚔️☠

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    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
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    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.




    * The Seasons 1-7 box-set is currently only $99.99 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07617BK8N/ . That's relatively a 3-month low: https://www.joinhoney.com/shop/amazo...#price-history

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