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Thread: Buffy Season 9 News Thread.

  1. #6021
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    I don't particularly "feel sorry for" Severin, but I am frustrated that the writers deliberately set out to give Severin a motivation that makes him not a one-dimensional, mustache-twirling bad guy, and Buffy is still going out to kill him without trying at all to reason with him because Illyria, D'Hoffryn and Koh suggest it. It's *Koh* who understands the motivation of acting out of love, not Buffy.

    That said, I don't think that Allie was saying we had to feel sorry for Severin -- just make his motivation be a recognizably human one, wherein Eyghon's motivation (for example) doesn't have to be all that recognizably human.

    So, I'm thinking -- is "the core" partially a reference to the fannish definition of "the Core Four" (or three now)? The word "core" is not text, but I assume that DH writers are familiar enough with the term to use it as a wink at the audience.

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    I had to roll my eyes at Scott's reasons for why Xander wants to save Dawn. This is not what I read in the issue, this hasn't been one of Xander's main concerns since S8 - I would like to say S7, but I think he most probably felt helpless and useless after her lost his eye.

    Obviously, Xander was so desperate to save Dawn because he loved her so much.
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    In a nutshell:

    "Buffy's plan [...] has fallen apart completely"

    "Buffy can do anything"



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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Maximum View Post
    I don't particularly "feel sorry for" Severin, but I am frustrated that the writers deliberately set out to give Severin a motivation that makes him not a one-dimensional, mustache-twirling bad guy, and Buffy is still going out to kill him without trying at all to reason with him because Illyria, D'Hoffryn and Koh suggest it. It's *Koh* who understands the motivation of acting out of love, not Buffy.
    I don't think Buffy misunderstands it, even if she wasn't the first to spot it. Don't mistake giving Koh guff for incomprehension. I just think she (rightly) knows it doesn't actually justify anything. Every maladjust has his reasons.

    So, I'm thinking -- is "the core" partially a reference to the fannish definition of "the Core Four" (or three now)? The word "core" is not text, but I assume that DH writers are familiar enough with the term to use it as a wink at the audience.
    Certainly, I think it does refer to the gang, but it probably also refers to first principles, root causes, personal telos, etc for the individual characters. And then, tangentially, probably to some phlebotenous BS that also uses the term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post
    I had to roll my eyes at Scott's reasons for why Xander wants to save Dawn. This is not what I read in the issue, this hasn't been one of Xander's main concerns since S8 - I would like to say S7, but I think he most probably felt helpless and useless after her lost his eye.

    Obviously, Xander was so desperate to save Dawn because he loved her so much.
    Yeah, I found the Zeppo call out to be misplaced. Never once did I get the impression that Xander was still chewing on that issue in this situation. In fact, they seemed to have bagged that as a part of his character since allllll the way back in "The Long Way Home".

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    So we're not discussing this in spoiler tags....

    I would prefer it is Xander's "Zeppo" traits didn't disappear but instead, were mollified in S8 by becoming Buffy's First Lieutenant, a commissioned officer who commanded hundreds of slayers. That's all over so I get why Xander has "Zeppo" feelings about becoming a powerless dude, helplessly staying home while Buffy and Willow and Spike go on adventures.

    My issue with Allie's "Zeppo" comments didn't have anything with the fact that I don't think that should be an issue for Xander. It's entirely that I don't see "Zeppo" motives realistically guiding Xander's choices vis a vis Dawn's illness. First, Xander loves Dawn. If there was ever a person that Xander would put away the ego issues and just focus on what's best for that person, it would be Dawn. Second, I can't comprehend how being the "lovely assistant" to Andrew's mad scientist is part of Xander's Zeppo issues. Xander is being a side-kick to the nerdiest, most currently disgraced (other than Angel, if he counts) Scooby. The most that Xander will do in such a project will to hand Andrew's scalpel, roofie drugs, hot pockets, when Andrew requests them with a surgeon's authority.

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    It just occurred to me after reading SA's latest whimsical flimsy on the season's last arc - that they might be setting Severin to become the new Seed somehow - not Willow. It would certainly make sense from the restoring the balance PoV - unless Willow manages to drain him of whatever he had stolen.

    They are certainly not being kind and gentle with Xander - but that the verse's modus operandi lately - the character either gets no story to speak of - and everybody feels dissatisfied, or they get their worst possible characteristics dragged out on the open and used to create 'new great story' of PAIN PAIN and moar PAIN. ( On that account Spike is the only one who is immune to this so far - but that's why his fans are most vocal in being disappointed that 'nothing has really happened'.)

    On the possible reboot scenario - sometimes when I come here after long absences I experience severe deja vu issues. It is like 2 years have not passed - the topics for discussion on the menu are the same : whether Dawn's Keyness will lead to her demise, whether Spike's m-ptienth return from wherever he is after m-ptienth departure ( 3 times so far in the comics - I counted) at the moment will result in Global Fireworks of Sexytimes and Rebirth of Spuffy , and finally whether there will be a Total Recall and it will all go to S0-1 in SunnyD ( and Xander will have his another shot at you-know-who in her untouched by vampires puerile beauty.)

    It is not that I don't think that any of the above scenarios are completely impossible. I just find the fact that this is all it is always boils down to in the global discussion amusing.

    Personally I think reboot has snowball's chance in Hell to happen because of Fray. If Joss went to all the trouble of setting S8 to reconcile the tv series finale with 'that comic I once wrote' - he is not going to back out of it. In fact all indicators are for moving straight in that direction - and sticking with it.

    I think what DH might do is after finishing the comics run at whatever state there is in S10 ( or S11, S12 if they manage to drag it that far) - by most likely killing off the titular character/s, and letting the rest of the crew smile sadly but optimistically while holding hands with remaining Slayers ( such as Billy, Anaheed, Satsu, Vi , etc) Then go into releasing S0-S1 comics again - post factum, and maybe revive the Fray time-line line as well.
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    Xander's long awaited big storyline is him being Andrew's assistant? You can't make this stuff up. Well, you can if you write these comics but you really shouldn't, if you ask me.

    And you got to love at the idea of Severin being sold as "relatable" when so far every time they have shown him you could almost hear the evil overlord laughter coming from the page.
    Xander: "Willow, you are the best human ever! I adore you! Well, that's the cookies talking, but you rock!"

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    I just had a horrific, just-crazy-enough-that-they-might-do-it thought. Maybe Xander assists by being the vessel here. A double shout-out both to the facepalm denouement of "Dollhouse" and also the Carol Danvers subplot in "X-Men" history, shove Dawn's fully actual consciousness into Xander's dome and they can co-op.

    I mean, I don't really think so, but it has just that sheen of moonbat plausibility, doesn't it? Saves us a robot body. Let's us have an entire relationship dynamic that can be explored entirely in inner monologue and/or dreamspace, two things of which Season 8 and 9 are fond. Contrives a way for Dawn to find out that Buffy made a play for her man after she knew he was her man. Provides a wonderful metaphor to explore any possible codependence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    I just had a horrific, just-crazy-enough-that-they-might-do-it thought. Maybe Xander assists by being the vessel here. A double shout-out both to the facepalm denouement of "Dollhouse" and also the Carol Danvers subplot in "X-Men" history, shove Dawn's fully actual consciousness into Xander's dome and they can co-op.

    I mean, I don't really think so, but it has just that sheen of moonbat plausibility, doesn't it? Saves us a robot body. Let's us have an entire relationship dynamic that can be explored entirely in inner monologue and/or dreamspace, two things of which Season 8 and 9 are fond. Contrives a way for Dawn to find out that Buffy made a play for her man after she knew he was her man. Provides a wonderful metaphor to explore any possible codependence.
    On the plus side, it will spare us from having to look at Jeanty's truly horrible rendition of Dawn again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Shaftoe View Post

    And you got to love at the idea of Severin being sold as "relatable" when so far every time they have shown him you could almost hear the evil overlord laughter coming from the page.
    Well, he is probably pretty relatable if you're an evil, laughing overlord.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Shaftoe View Post
    Xander's long awaited big storyline is him being Andrew's assistant? You can't make this stuff up. Well, you can if you write these comics but you really shouldn't, if you ask me.
    I truly, truly have higher hopes with Xander's story line... Have to believe it will get better.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    I just had a horrific, just-crazy-enough-that-they-might-do-it thought. Maybe Xander assists by being the vessel here. A double shout-out both to the facepalm denouement of "Dollhouse" and also the Carol Danvers subplot in "X-Men" history, shove Dawn's fully actual consciousness into Xander's dome and they can co-op.
    Oh My God!! LOL!! Would this be amusing (in a totally creepy way)! But, you've been right before... and we can't dismiss any possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwie View Post
    Well, he is probably pretty relatable if you're an evil, laughing overlord.

    Well, he definitely have failed to read Ze List.

    When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say, "No." and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then say "No."


    No matter how tempted I am with the prospect of unlimited power, I will not consume any energy field bigger than my head.


    Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge in maniacal laughter. When so occupied, it's too easy to miss unexpected developments that a more attentive individual could adjust to accordingly.

    and so on...

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    I wouldn't bet on King's interesting theory coming to pass because it sounds too complicated for this crew. A&F made moves to that happening to Angel acting as Giles's vessel- and we all saw the follow-up and dedication to that storyline. Not much at all. DH may flirt with such a story bu it's not their bag, baby. At least, not to the tune of making a permanent way of life for their two banner normal characters.

    Thinking about Scott Allie's "Zeppo"/"Xander just has to do something" line- I think that Scott Aliie and Dark Horse often say derogatory things about their characters in interviews to make the story seem darker than it is but the actual storyine ends up not that bad for the characters. Back at the beginning of S9 when I was a novice at reading DH's press speak, I thought that Willow would painted as out-and-out malicious based on the writers were speaking about her in interviews. I don't want to jinx anything but that doesn't seem to be the cast by Wonderland #4. Spike was said to flirt with darkness in his mini- but I would even call it buying darkness one drink let alone real flirting. To say nothing of the writers' tough talk re: Angel in the interviews that doesn't get bearing in the text.

    We shall see whether the same "all bark" rule applies to Xander. Still no matter what happens, I'm still irritable about Scott Allie spoke about Xander in this interview.
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    Quote Originally Posted by norwie View Post
    Well, he is probably pretty relatable if you're an evil, laughing overlord.
    You really think so? I thought he's kinda paralleling Angel. They both try to resurrect somebody that they got killed (actively or not, in the end) Why should one openly support one and despise the second?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubi4soft View Post
    Why should one openly support one and despise the second?
    Chuckle, I am pretty sure stopping the Angel-despising was not implied in that original line.
    “Personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon” ranks as probably the best next-to-last line in TV history. (Granted, I’m not exactly sure what the competition is.) -- A.V. Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorotea View Post
    Well, he definitely have failed to read Ze List.
    That's what i meant.

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    Just want to chime in with this observation...the final arc's title "The Core" reminds me of what SA said before season nine started - "Willow is headed to a dark place". One of the speculations I threw out there was the possibility they were hinting Willow was going to a physical location that was literally dark - as in being underground. So this is exactly what they were talking about. The Scoobies are going to the "core" of the Earth.

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    A question: Where do they say the names for the Xander issue and the final arc? The names weren't mentioned in the last Scott interview.
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    I think Allie tweeted the final arc title.

    EDIT: Yep Feb 13th

    Scott Allie ‏@ScottAllie
    The final arc of Buffy Season 9 is called The Core.
    Last edited by Stoney; 21-02-13 at 01:58 PM.

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    My predicted Dawn/Xander/Andrew story given SA's "very bad idea" language".

    Andrew operates on Dawn- like he's transferring human essence. But he doesn't count on the fact that that Dawn has Key essence. While operating, Dawn's Keyness with a mind of its own just forms its natural shiny energy ball state and leaves Dawn's body. Andrew and Xander can't catch it. Now, the Key is out there floating around. Without magic on earth, no one can disguise it so it's up for grabs for any villain who wants to use it to open dimensions.

    Willow comes back with magic or a plan to get magic. Armed with magic, Willow, Xander and Buffy go on a mission to find the Key, and turn her back into Dawn by replicating the Monks' spell but adjusted for an older Dawn.

    I'd imagine that the villain to get the Key is Severin- with plans to use it to travel to an alternate dimension where his girlfriend was never zompired. So part of the mission is fighting with Severin for the Key.

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