I do recall some conversations i had with a friend of mine who has read many comics, when i told her that Bill Willingham would be writing Angel's comics.
She was so excited, because she knew his work and she was loving it.
But then again, she was proven wrong, his work in Angel's issues is one of the worst of Angel's.
So, i'll ask again, has Gail Simone ever seen the show?
That's the most important thing for me, not her previous work and curriculum.
The men are treated fairly well. They usually aren't the main focus so I wouldn't say it's perfect yet, just because they don't always require full-time attention, but it's good enough. As well as they have been this season, if not better. I'm not particularly worried about that. She can do characters like Batman and Oliver Queen who guest star often just as good as anyone else, so I'm sure she can take on Xander/Giles/Angel/etc.Originally Posted by PointMan
I'm not sure, but it worries me a little too.At least she has a year and a bit too watch it and plan S9 with the other folks...but I don't quite know. It would make me rest easier if she was a fan before getting the job!
I think she's going to "get" Willow right away. Willow is this character who had tremendous powers..and now she's nothing. Let's see what Gail Simone does for Willow. This will be key.
Willow is not nothing, has never been nothing and will never be nothing. She's considered important enough to be getting her own mini-series.
“The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein
I think Willow will get some spectacular stories now. She's very similar to Barbara Gordon, the former Batgirl who became the Oracle. She was a very very popular character that when shot by the Joker, became paralyzed and lost all of her power and strength. Her story never ended there obviously, and she's now this brainiac and awesome person all the other heroes rely on for help from time to time.
Gail has an excellent handle on characters like that and I have full faith that she'll do some fantastic things for our redhead!
DorthyFan, Willow is not nothing, having powers don't make her Willow, she is Willow with or without them. Willow character is the one that will be the picking herself up from all the darkness that has occured, and she will be the one that people turn to when they need someone to undersand how their world was just destroyed, who knows how to live in a world that the fight between goood/evil is one that affects everyone she is not the helpless girl that waits to be attacked, she isn't the type to give up no matter how impossible the circumstances, she even hurt a hell god long before she was the superwitch and saved Tara when it had never been done before(and it was because of her brain and not just her powers that she did this) she has saved others lives whether she uses her powers or not, she has done things that make people look in amazement whether she has superpowers or not.
Last edited by tripie7; 09-01-11 at 12:45 AM.
That doesn't worry me, that SCARES ME.I'm not sure, but it worries me a little too.
Because i think it's exactly the mistake that Bill Willingham did.
He watched some episodes from the first seasons, and wrote Angel.
So, he f@@@d up Spike and Illyria totally.
And really, one can't expect an 30, 40 50 years old professional to watch 12 seasons of a TV show, because basically that takes time, and professionals like that don't usually have it.
So, probably, if she hasn't watched the show, she will watch the first seasons and a few episodes from the rest, and get a summary to read the story.
And i don't think she will have any time for AtS.
So, unless she has watched the show, i prefer an actual writer from the show.
I'm terrified to see a Buffy from the first seasons again declaring her love to Angel and Angel his forbidden love for her....
Last edited by leyki; 09-01-11 at 12:49 AM.
I hope you're right. This is one of the reasons after learning more about Gail Simone I'm feeling encouraged. Keeping my fingers crossed.
We'll have to wait and see. I really don't know how they can pull this off in a comic book. Especially Willow's situation.
She's been sent the TPBs of "Season 8." Whether she's seen the show or not is pretty irrelevant. And if she were to agree to write, I'm sure she'd watch the series, assuming she hasn't seen it. Considering she seems to be a fan of strong, female character, I would be surprised if she didn't.
Also, I thought you were done with comics? You mentioned canceling your order for #40 in another thread.
Oh been sent season 8, you wrote that to make me feel better?
Didn't work, now i am terrified.
I am done paying for the comics, i can always read the reviews.
If they ever become equal to the show, i'll rethink paying again to read them.
Oh, I see, you're just tolling then. Okay, thought so.
Reading the reviews isn't reading the issues. To fairly discuss something, you should know what you're talking about. Not reacting to other people's reactions. If you're done with the comics, why are you in this thread being all worried about the writers of something you, apparently, have no attentions of actually reading?
Who told you i won't read it?
I can always go to the comic shop and read the copy of the employee, if i'm not satisfied with the review.
Is it somewhere written in the site that i have to pay for it to have the right to talk about it?
And wrong thinking, all i see is people giving opinions, so i gave mine, i would prefer a writer from the series than one that hasn't seen the characters' development through the years, no matter how good his/her work is in other comics. And i also gave and example. You are trolling here.
Last edited by leyki; 09-01-11 at 03:26 AM.
Guys, this thread is for discussing news about Season 9, not whether or not you actually read the comics or whether or not they are worth reading. If you don't read the comics, don't come in here discussing them, as you have nothing on which to base your comments. If you do read the comics, please restrict your discussion to the comics themselves, not whether or not other people should also be reading them. If you are offended by another member's remarks, please report them rather than respond in kind. Do not throw accusations around as this only leads to escalating hostility. If you think someone else is behaving badly, be better than them, rather than join them. Remember that rudeness to other members is against the rules and can lead to infraction points being given - so do as you would be done by.
If this thread remains off-topic it will be closed.
Gail Simone is a professional writer experienced in the medium in which "Buffy" is made. I find the comparison of her reputation to Willingham's, looking at the entire industry, to be somewhat amusing.
I think the strongest arc of all of Season 8 was written by someone who didn't come near writing "Buffy" on TV, so my concern over other such writers in Season 9 is pretty much non-existent. Vetting the writers on whether or not they've seen all of Season 1 through 7 is almost a proxy argument for "only hire writers who interpret the characters and (probably more to the point) relationships the way I do from when I watched Season 1 through 7".
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Thank you! I agree with this. I'd prefer for the writers to know their voices now, not from seasons 1 through 7, tbh. They're not super different, but these character have grown between season 7 and 8 and throughout "Season 8." They've grown as characters and so have their voices. Xander is still Xander, but he's also a lot more mature. So, referencing back to the show may not be the best idea ever because it might not be the most accurate with where he's at now. It's the same for everyone else. Could you imagine S8!Dawn being written with S6!Dawn's voice? Seriously, stop and picture this in your mind.Or the interaction between Xander/Dawn. I'm not a huge fan (or at all) of that ship, but if Gail Simone wrote S6!Xander and S6!Dawn in "Season 9," I couldn't handle it AT ALL.
Uh, how does having actually watched the entire show hinder one from being able to write the characters as they are now?Thank you! I agree with this. I'd prefer for the writers to know their voices now, not from seasons 1 through 7, tbh. They're not super different, but these character have grown between season 7 and 8 and throughout "Season 8." They've grown as characters and so have their voices. Xander is still Xander, but he's also a lot more mature. So, referencing back to the show may not be the best idea ever because it might not be the most accurate with where he's at now. It's the same for everyone else. Could you imagine S8!Dawn being written with S6!Dawn's voice? Seriously, stop and picture this in your mind.That's really the strangest idea I've ever encountered on this forum. By that logic, BtVS should have had different showrunners and different writers every season. So we could all have a brand new set of characters each year with just the same names and actors.
Character's history is in intrinsic part of who they are, it's what defines them. You can't write a character well if you have no clue where they come from and how they've evolved. What do you think makes you more qualified to write for Willow, for instance - just knowing that "she's a powerful witch who's lost her powers and whose previous girlfriend was killed" as you've figured out from S8, or that she's a powerful witch who's just lost her powers and who used to be an insecure nerd who felt insignificant in school and still hadn't gotten over those issues years later, and who went dark and tried to destroy the world after her girlfriend was killed? To really be able to write the characters, the minimal qualifications you have to meet is to have seen all of seasons 1-7 and read all of season 8 (including the one-shots and supplementary comics) - in other words, everything that is canon. Saying that "they don't have the time because they're professionals" is the most absurd thing ever. They have to have time for it because they're professionals! It's their frakking job! And they should make an effort not to be sloppy about it. If the fans can do it - and many people have been able to go through 7 seasons of a TV show in just a few months, despite having jobs or school/college to devote time to - then certainly someone whose job is to do that should be able to do it, too!
You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.
I guess you reply to me, since i used Willingham's name.
I have no idea about his previous work, neither about Simone's.
I just made a comment based on what a friend of mine told me once, a friend who has read many comics.
My guess is that Willingham read only ATF and Spike ATF, that's why Spike is so OOC and that's why Illyria is too, and that's why Connor is so lovable there. The characters' development in AtS has been skipped out.
You don't know if the writer who wrote the strongest arc, based on your opinion, has watched the show and we don't know if Simone has or will.
Did i ever say that they should hire writers that interpret the characters the way i do? Have i applied for the job and didn't notice it?
God....
All i'm saying is, yes, Buffy is a comic now, but we are not in season 15.
We are in season 8 so the show and what happened in the show is very important and very hot still.
What worries me is that this season i have seen an Angel who just came out of season 3 of BtVS.
What worries me is that i have seen a Buffy that i don't recognize, robbing banks and doing girls and jumping on Angel after 2 minutes of fighting him.
What worries me is that i have seen a super powered Willow forgetting what the abuse of magic did to her back in season 6.
And what worries me is that i am going to see an Angel based on what he did in season 8,
i am going to see a Willow who was superpowered and now has no powers,
i am going to see a Spike who will just be Buffy's puppy comforting her,
i am going to see a Buffy feeling bad because of what happened and what her beloved one did
forgetting basically the character's paths and how they started, how they ended up here, their development, their arcs.
No, i don't want to see a season 9 based on what happened in season 8 only.
I want to see a season 9 based on the whole development of the characters through 8 season of BtVS and 5 of AtS plus the AtF.
And if things go the way i don't want them to, please remember to buy 2 copies every month so i can continue discussing it for as long as i feel like it's gonna worth my time.
Of course, if you like it yourself, and if you can spare another 3 euros per month.
Last edited by leyki; 09-01-11 at 02:23 PM.
It's implicit in not just yours but in anyone's view whose fundamental complaint is that the writers are doing it "wrong", character wise, it's that the writers are unfaithful to how they view the character. In some cases where the writing is so obviously nuts, it's that they are unfaithful to things over which there is a great deal of audience consensus. Like, if someone where to write Buffy as secretly deeply religious. But when people react as fervently to variance like, in the case of IDW, Spike overvaluing his relationship with Drusilla, or in Season 8 Buffy being cavalier about the law -- things that are, at the very least, subject to reasonable disagreement in the audience... well, when those things get ripped as crackfic or just writer laziness, it's not because they are objectively baseless but because they conform to an interpretation that the fan does not share.You don't know if the writer who wrote the strongest arc, based on your opinion, has watched the show and we don't know if Simone has or will.
Did i ever say that they should hire writers that interpret the characters the way i do? Have i applied for the job and didn't notice it?
God....
As for Brian K. Vaughan, I really have no idea how much he ever did watch "Buffy" or not, nor do I care. His job is to write a story that engages an audience and is consistent with the characters and the mythology they exist in. Whether his understanding of the characters comes from careful, fervent viewing of the previous work or from a 50 word summary given to him by whoever hired him is completely irrelevant to me.
This argument has been going on since 8.10 and hasn't changed -- a cavalier Buffy breaking the law on her own judgment of what's best for the world is perfectly textual. Her taking it to this extreme is not "bad writing" or out of character, it's just not what parts of the audience wanted to see.What worries me is that i have seen a Buffy that i don't recognize, robbing banks and doing girls and jumping on Angel after 2 minutes of fighting him.
You've skipped Season 7 when they decided... it's not addiction anymore, it's her nature. And in Season 8, Willow's faults have all been very human, very much about her ego, not about the magic or addiction to it.What worries me is that i have seen a super powered Willow forgetting what the abuse of magic did to her back in season 6.
This statement doesn't mean anything, because nothing is based on Season 8 "only", because whether you like it or not or agree with it or not, Season 8 is based on Seasons 1 through 7.No, i don't want to see a season 9 based on what happened in season 8 only.
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A big difference between Simone and Willingham (apart from Willingham's self-effacing and tactful personality) is that Willingham has always tended to auteur his own books and only occasionally written other people's characters. Simone started out writing Simpsons comics and has continued to write other people's characters at DC. She knows how important it is to respect the backstory of these people. Were she to take on any of the BtVS characters I'm sure she'd do the research. It's not as if people with a comics background can't appreciate TV. Jeanty had never watched the show before taking on the job but started with S6 and went on to devour the whole series and is now as big a fan as any of us. Which is not to say that his opinions on who each of the characters are match every other fans - he's need a seriously fractured personality for that to be possible.
So what is Gail Simone *assuming she accepts the challenge to do Season 9* supposed to do with Willow now, may I ask? Is she getting the ability to do *anything* she wants with Willow or does she need to follow an overall general script?You've skipped Season 7 when they decided... it's not addiction anymore, it's her nature. And in Season 8, Willow's faults have all been very human, very much about her ego, not about the magic or addiction to it.
Last edited by DorothyFan1; 09-01-11 at 04:24 PM.
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