View Poll Results: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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  • Yes

    106 92.17%
  • No

    5 4.35%
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Thread: Gay Marriage - Yes or No?

  1. #21
    trace your hand BlasterBoy's Avatar
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    I haven't read the Bible fully and am just wondering. Does the Bible mention the word marriage or anything like it? Like, I know it describes like a bonding of a man and a woman but does it say anything about the ceremony we know today as marriage or even the word? I'd just be curious to know.

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    Sunnydale High Student densoid's Avatar
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    My biggest problem with argueing the religious aspect is that many of these churches and religious centres charge for the marriage for profit.

    If they only gave ordered couples to pay the cost and accepted donation, then yes its down to religious belief.
    But where they are directly profitering - its straight forward capatilism and here there can be no in-equality.

    Its all very muddled and mixed up - my personal belief sees marriage as non-religious, so I would still like to say I am married (if one day i do) even though I'm making no commitment to any organised god.

    I actually believe in god myself, just not the organisations which I feel have formed their own ideals of his teachings.
    I just don't understand why god would have a problem with same-sex relationships or even same-sex marriages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBoy View Post
    does it say anything about the ceremony we know today as marriage or even the word? I'd just be curious to know.
    Oh yes, it certainly uses the word "marriage" and "marries", "married" etc. I'm not sure that it ever describes the actual ceremony. I'm sure ceremonies have changed many times in many ways over the centuries. But even in the Genesis quotation I mentioned, it says "wife" which would insinuate marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by densoid View Post
    My biggest problem with argueing the religious aspect is that many of these churches and religious centres charge for the marriage for profit.
    I'm not sure that rental of the building is unreasonable. When I got married, renting the sanctuary (where the ceremony took place) was only $150. Not a big profit when you consider that I used their decorations, occupied the building for at least 2 hours including rehearsal and used their sound system and piano. And what I paid the pastor was a thank you, not a fee that he charges.

    I don't mean to derail this thread, if that is what I'm doing. I'll be quiet now if I am.

  4. #24
    Slayer Supporter vampmogs's Avatar
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    You’re not derailing the thread. It’s kind of inevitable this topic would come up in a discussion about Gay Marriage and I had always expected it would. I think it’s really interesting and important to talk about!
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    Would you be ok with them calling it "marriage?"
    I say **** the title of "marriage" and make everyone have civil unions. I dunno if this has even been said yet and if it has, I'm sorry. I think Jenni Lou hit the nail on the head by bringing up Separation of Church and State (what happened to that wonderful thing?) but I feel like marriage is just a name. The true forces at work in a marriage are love and the financial/legal benefits. I mean, honestly, does anyone get married in order to be closer to God or for purely religious reasons? Because my view on marriage is that they do it for love. And God is just involved. He's the facilitator, the one that just...I dunno.

    Marriage is like the "Wizard of Oz." You stand before the great God when you ask to be married but who's the one pulling the strings and spitting the fire? The tiny human with a big machine (the government).

    I understand why religious individuals view marriage as between a man and woman - I get it. I don't agree with it but I get it. But I genuinely believe that marriage is no longer about religion. It's about LOVE. And love is love. Two dudes, two chicks...It's love. It happens. And if you want to spend the rest of your lives together - same gender or not - then it's because you LOVE each other and quite possibly just want the financial/legal benefits. But the main reason is because of love.

    So by denying gay marriage, I feel like it's denying love. And no one should be denied love.
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  6. #26
    fandom whore Jenni Lou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    Youíre not derailing the thread. Itís kind of inevitable this topic would come up in a discussion about Gay Marriage and I had always expected it would. I think itís really interesting and important to talk about!
    Agreed. And I think the core of the opposition to gay marriage is composed of religious-minded individuals who feel a need to stand behind their Bible. Some may be homophobic and some may not. It's about the word of God and how churches and individuals interpret it. I can't argue against that. But again, I still think it comes down between separating individual faith and the tenets of the Constitution where "all men are created equal." (Obviously, I am American.) Time and time again we have denied rights to people whether they be black, women, gay, old, etc. When that small little clause couldn't be more clear. (Well, save for the men part. )

    So yes. This topic, much like abortion, is one where religion will always be apart of the conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heather View Post
    So by denying gay marriage, I feel like it's denying love. And no one should be denied love.

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  7. #27
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    at the moment, Australia is run by a religious leader in Julia Gillard, and i remember one of her policies was against same-sex marriage, which personally i thought was a bit odd, because it's her religious belief and not something that should be outlawed across the country. honestly, i didn't want to vote for either parties (Gillard or Abbott), but one of them had to lead. civil/domestic partnerships are recognised in some states, but others are still even lagging behind that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenni Lou View Post
    Most of the dissension on this topic is rooted in people's religious beliefs. Of course, one cannot demand that anyone abandon such beliefs, or ignore them. But I also think it important that we all regard each other as human beings who all have the right to love. Marriage as a legal act should be allowed to all. The church(es) has its own right to deny recognizing the marriage in eyes of God and his law. But for the government to deny this is wrong, I think. Marriage presents a couple with certain rights. If one person falls ill, for example, then what? Their partner is not even allowed to see them on their deathbed because it is immediate family only? And while many hospitals may allow for visitation, they would also have the right to turn them away. This is just one of many injustices, I think.
    couldn't have said it better myself. it's a religious issue, but religion isn't enforced, and anti-religion isn't and shouldn't be outlawed. if the reasons for outlawing same-sex marriage is based on religious beliefs then why are people allowed to marry outside a church/temple/religious-ceremony. there are plenty of people out there who get married, but don't believe in God. those should be called civil unions, and i'm all for everyone having civil unions rather than marriages, and same-sex domestic/civil partnerships should be recognised as equivalent to that of what our current marriage system is defined as.

    if the outlaw is based on the definition of marriage, then the term 'marriage' should be changed for everyone to 'civil unions'. currently, the Marriage Act defines marriage as 'union between man and woman', thus the term 'same-sex marriage' in itself is contradictory, so the problem lies in the definition or the benefits that we apply exclusively to marriages.

    i'm religious and believe in God, Buddhas, karma, reincarnation, heaven/hell and all, but just because i may think abortion is wrong, or i would never get an abortion, doesn't mean it should be outlawed, as there are plenty of situations that may call for an abortion. i believe in the morning after pill, but i don't believe in the abortion pill.
    overall, i don't see the harm in allowing same-sex marriages and am all for it, or at least allowing civil unions to carry the same benefits of marriage.
    Last edited by doppelganger47; 02-12-10 at 10:14 AM.
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  8. #28
    Lonely God tangent's Avatar
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    The answer for me is quite simply yes. Two people who love each other chould have the chance to celebrate that love and to formalise the commitment to each othe in fornt of the watching world. The sex of the people involved is irrelevant.

    And on the other matter, I can't see an all loving god having any problem with increasing the amount of love in the world.
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  9. #29
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    I voted yes, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger47
    at the moment, Australia is run by a religious leader in Julia Gillard, and i remember one of her policies was against same-sex marriage, which personally i thought was a bit odd, because it's her religious belief and not something that should be outlawed across the country.
    Gillard is not religious, or a theist.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...29/2939879.htm

    http://www.godless.biz/2010/06/29/ju...irmed-atheist/

  10. #30
    Bronze Party-Goer Jessica M.C.'s Avatar
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    I believe people have the right to be happy. If getting married to someone who is the same gender, than I say go for it!! A marriage legally is just for money reasons. Religiously you are making a pack to 'God' that you will stay with this person until death. Love wise you are saying you love this person and always will till death do you part, or if you believe in reincarnation forever.

    I find it hard to believe that 'God' would make someone who is different then not love them or let them be happy. If 'God' chooses to make someone 'he' choose their traits, and therefor loves them.

    As for the religious marriage thing. Adam and Eve were never 'married' technically. And 'God' had no problem with them having children. So why then does the church have a problem with any one's marriage?
    Then on the other hand you have the religions who see gay people a sacred, as they have both male and female aspects. Or the religions that don't care and just see people as just that people, who all need to be respected and loved.
    I think love is between two people, no matter what gender, size, religion, ethnic background. We are all humans.

    But, you know, that's just my opinion
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  11. #31
    Graveyard Patrol doppelganger47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilVampire View Post
    i just assumed she was, because when i was completing an online questionnaire, which determines the party i favour more depending on their policies, one of the questions (for Gillard) were in relation to whether i was for/against/dont-care same-sex marriages, because she was against it. i don't really know, because i'm not into politics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger47 View Post
    i just assumed she was, because when i was completing an online questionnaire, which determines the party i favour more depending on their policies, one of the questions (for Gillard) were in relation to whether i was for/against/dont-care same-sex marriages, because she was against it. i don't really know, because i'm not into politics.
    She didn't give any reason to explain why she's against same-gender marriage. She just said that that was her conviction. I find that improbable. It's more probable, as I see it, that she's afraid of the consequences of adopting a position pro-same-gender marriage:

    Even if most Australians support same-gender marriage, those who support it aren't likely to vote for her more conservative opponents (who are also against it), if she opposes same-gender marriage

    On the other hand, if she favors same-gender marriage, there may be many sexual conservatives (but not economic conservatives) who would vote for her opponent just for that reason.

    So, I think it's more likely to be a political strategy than conviction (for what reason? she won't say...), and she doesn't really care one way or another.

    Then again, she said clearly that she does not believe in God, so that lends at least some support to the theory that she's sincere...unless she had no way of convincing the public otherwise, or unless she cares about her non-theism enough not to deny it, but doesn't care much about same-gender marriage, one way or another.

    Anyway, in any event, Gillard is not opposed to same-gender marriage out of religious belief, though she might be opposed to it out of interest in the vote of those who have said religious beliefs.

    That would be similar (big differences between the two societies notwithstanding) to the position of Dilma Rousseff in Brazil. She used to be for same-gender marriage and abortion rights, until that hurt her election chances due to the strong influence of Evangelicals and the Catholic Church, so she vehemently denied that she'd try to pass laws allowing same-gender marriage or abortion - maybe the issues cost her having to go to a runoff election, but she's the President-elect of Brazil.

  13. #33
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    Quite frankly I'm amazed that people still feel the need to ask this. Surely as a human being it should be a given whatever their sexuality?

  14. #34
    Scooby Gang Kiera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sueworld View Post
    Quite frankly I'm amazed that people still feel the need to ask this. Surely as a human being it should be a given whatever their sexuality?
    Do you mean the original topic of the thread or something else someone posted? Because even if I was straight, I would/could still support gay marriage, so sexuality wouldn't have anything to do with it, at least not to me.

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    What I'm saying that in a civilized society we should all have equal rights, and that involves marriage.

    And as for comments about history of violence against Christians, well can I just say 'the Crusades' at this point, so It more then worked both ways imo.
    Last edited by sueworld; 03-12-10 at 12:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sueworld View Post
    What I'm saying that in a civilized society we should all have equal rights, and that involves marriage.

    An as for comments about history of violence against Christians, well can I just say 'the Crusades' at this point, so It more then worked both ways imo.
    Oh, I agree. But unfortunately there are people in this world that feel that their way is the only way, the absolute way. While this is very wrong in my book, I guess you can't argue with someone else's opinion or beliefs and unfortunately, the topic of gay marriage will always remain a heated one :/

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessic M.C. View Post
    I believe people have the right to be happy. If getting married to someone who is the same gender, than I say go for it!! A marriage legally is just for money reasons. Religiously you are making a pack to 'God' that you will stay with this person until death. Love wise you are saying you love this person and always will till death do you part, or if you believe in reincarnation forever.

    I find it hard to believe that 'God' would make someone who is different then not love them or let them be happy. If 'God' chooses to make someone 'he' choose their traits, and therefor loves them.

    As for the religious marriage thing. Adam and Eve were never 'married' technically. And 'God' had no problem with them having children. So why then does the church have a problem with any one's marriage?
    Then on the other hand you have the religions who see gay people a sacred, as they have both male and female aspects. Or the religions that don't care and just see people as just that people, who all need to be respected and loved.
    I think love is between two people, no matter what gender, size, religion, ethnic background. We are all humans.

    But, you know, that's just my opinion
    Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! I seriously feel the exact same way...
    Once in college I got into a fight with a friend who was making fun of another friend of mine who was gay. It evolved into a debate of whether or not being gay is "wrong", and it got heated very quickly. I understand and respect that people are going to have differing opinions and that is great, or else the world would be very boring, but I get so pissed off when people use religion to try to justify why gay marriage should not be allowed. I actually brought up the Adam and Eve point before. I said to my mom once "Well Adam and Eve never had a marriage ceremony, so they were living in sin... That's why I don't think a marriage is a big deal in God's eyes".

  18. #38
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    I don't think religion-based stances should be exempt from criticism:

    Suppose someone, based on their religion, propose to ban interracial marriages. Should that religion-based stance be exempt from criticism?

    Or suppose they propose to ban Black people (or White people, for that matter) from owning land, and the argument they give is that God establishes so, and they have faith in God.

    Or suppose they try to ban women from voting. Why? Because that's what their religion says.

    Or suppose they defend slavery, and use their religion to justify it (as the Bible has repeatedly being used for that).

    Should such stances be exempt from criticism?

    Of course, I'm not saying banning same-gender marriage is nearly as bad as, say, slavery. There are different degrees of bad. But my point here is that just the fact that someone is basing their political stances on religion is no good reason not to criticize said stances.

    In fact, I think generally, the behavior of using a faith-based belief in God's commands to try to ban others from acting is not reasonable:

    Let's consider the general case:

    Suppose I say I support banning members of group X from doing Y, and the reason I give is that God commands us to ban members of group X from doing Y, and the “reason” I (honestly) give when asked why I believe God wants that is...faith.

    Would that be a reasonable stance for me to take?

    It could be used to support pretty much anything, from a ban on same-gender marriage to, say, a ban on property owning by Blacks, to a ban on women voting, and so on.

    But it's not a reasonable way of supporting said policies. It destroys any possibility of dialog. And it does so based on a belief that some superpowerful entity issued a command - belief which, in turn, has no support (it's just "faith").

    Sure, someone could give some arguments for the belief in question, in which case the reason given is not faith but something else. But that's another matter. If someone wants to make that case, then we can debate as usual.
    Last edited by EvilVampire; 03-12-10 at 08:33 PM.

  19. #39
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    ^^ Very well said. A little girl down the street from us actually told my daughter one day "It's against the law for a black man to marry a white woman, because that's what the Bible says". This kid's parents are filling her full of all kinds of rediculous ideas and conceptions because of their "faith" and beliefs. When this girl told my daughter that, I told her "No, that's not true, and just because your mommy and daddy believe it doesn't mean you have to." I got a nice little visit from her mom shortly afterwards, and I told her I didn't want my daughter playing with her daughter until she could stop trying to impose their rediculous beliefs on her. My sister has two children whose fathers are black (we are white), so when this kid told my daughter that she got SO upset and thought her aunt Cassie was gonna go to jail. WTF.

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    Man, im jumping way late in the conversation. From the polls, its very one-sided.

    Hey, im in the military and this topic is fairly hot right now. I, for one, completly support gay marriage. I really wouldn't even know where to start on this topic. I dont know if I want to approach the relgious angle or political, or what.. I think its late and im going to stop with, I completly support gay marriage. Someone decided when they were gay the same time I decided I was straight. Everyone has a right to be happy, and no one has a right to decline someone else of that because of their own personal thoughts or morals. Shame.

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