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    Default Our God

    Well I'm sure this has come up before, but it's still an interesting topic that can be discussed every now and then. Hopefully this won't become entirely about religion, but if it does we'll see where the discussion takes itself. What's being discussed I believe though, is beyond the bible or koran or any religious piece of text. It's understandable, as yes this beings mainly stems from those things, but for many people they are more than that as well.


    If this is the form of God you believe in, then please explain. Or if you may just believe in a non-biblical creator or something like that, that's fine too. Whatever you think about this - anything at all - can be wrote down.

    So for some starting easy questions, do you believe there is a real god/creator/lord/divine being etc.?

    What do you think they are?

    And why do you believe?

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    I don't believe in God, although I have had times in my life when I have (including during my philosophy A-level when the ontological argument had me utterly convinced for about 2 weeks!).

    In terms of belief, I don't think I could ever believe "because" of something - I mean, for a rational reason (pace the A-level incident, but I was a big swot at the time). I think faith is something more emotional, more intuitive than that.

    As things stand, I'd say I'm an agnostic - I don't think you can know for certain either way. I believe that the existence of God is definitely possible, though I think it's unlikely that He/She/It would be anything like our conception of Him/Her/It. God is by definition beyond our full comprehension, so it wouldn't be surprising if all religious texts had it a bit wrong.


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    Do I believe there is a God? Emphatically, yes. And while I do agree with Woflie that God is beyond our comprehension, I also believe that my God is the God in the Bible, because I believe they are inseperable. (meaning, the Bible is in fact His Word. But that is basically a whole discussion on it's own.) Is there more to God than what is written down? More than we could imagine, I'm sure.

    What do I think He is? All knowing, loving, scary, forgiving, unchanging, righteous, just, incomprehensible, all powerful, the first and the last...etc.

    Why do I believe? This question has definitely been talked about before, and during those talks I realised that while I believe there is scientific evidence supporting the "claims" made my God in the Bible..that isn't the primary reason I believe. It is based more on a feeling I guess. Which is confusing to me, because many times my feelings (take anger for example) are at war with what my brain tells me is unacceptable behavior. Regardless, that is the best word I can come up with to describe what convinces me of God's existence and nature. Sometimes it feels beyond explanation. I just believe it.

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    Yeah I believe in God but I also believe in Direct Panspermia and Evolution. I believe the closest to the understanding of God we can have comes directly from the bible. Mostly because YHVH is the only God I want to believe in. Not to say I haven't found other gods fascinating but in the end I want Yehshua and YHVH. Why do I believe in him? I want to. If that awesome String theory stuff can allow for his existence I say he exists. If it says he can't exist he still exists. Sometimes I feel things, some hot and cold, sensations that appear when there is nothing to provide them. And when I do bad the sensations go away for a period of time. It's odd.
    Last edited by ChaddyMan1; 08-11-10 at 11:45 PM.

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    Bronze Party-Goer Jessica M.C.'s Avatar
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    I believe there are many gods and Goddesses. I think that every religion is possible.

    I've had this theory that religion is some big mansion in the sky. each religion has it's own room. religions that are close in beliefs share a common room and some are connected by doors. There is a hallway connecting all of the religions. Atheists share the parlor down stairs. In each room there is the being the religion worships, helping all of the people find there way about the mansion.
    People can wonder from room to room, talk about things, learn,love. They can be in the room and not talk to others and stay set in their ways. They can move about as they see fit. It depends on the person.

    Once the person dies, there spirit goes to the attic, where all the other spirits are. They talk about their experiences with all the others. Then, they plan what room they want to start out in and who their family will be. Then off they go again to move about the mansion.
    I think I started believing in this because it makes sense, to me anyway. I like the idea of everyone having the choice to be who they are, to believe what they believe what they believe.

    I told this to one of my highly christian friends and she probably thought I was nuts, although I bet there is even a room for 'crazys' like me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie Gilmore
    God is by definition beyond our full comprehension, so it wouldn't be surprising if all religious texts had it a bit wrong.
    What's the definition of "God"?

    In any case, to address the question the best I can, I do not have a belief in the existence of any entity any religion calls “God”, or “god” (or Goddess, etc.).

    In fact, I believe that all religions are wrong in their existential claims about such entities.

    As for other gods, my question is "what's a god"?

    At least, I don't have any belief in any particular entity with superpowers, if that helps address the matter (though "superpowers" is also vague).
    Last edited by EvilVampire; 09-11-10 at 06:25 AM.

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    Well, as I've already stated in another poll I do not believe in God, but fully respect the right of others to do so. Not that I haven't tried to go to church, read/understand the bible and I even went to church school for a short time. But every time I asked why Jesus died, I was always told "for our sins." To me, this was not a good enough answer and I felt silly and somewhat disrespectful trying to be part of a religion that I didn't understand or truely believe in.

    I prefer believing in many Gods and Goddesses as opposed to just one because being Wiccan (though not actively practicing) I choose to put my beliefs in nature and feel there needs to be more than one entity or deity "running" things.

    My not believing in God comes from the belief that God and religion aren't there for the masses; it's not something that should be discussed to the point of argument. It's there because you need to put your belief in something and find your center. As my grandmother said "believing keeps me sane" and I think it's more of a comfort zone or happy place where you can truely be yourself and put yourself in the hands of some all-powerful being when you're lost or don't know where else to turn.
    Last edited by Kiera; 01-12-10 at 10:17 PM.

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    Bronze Party-Goer Jessica M.C.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiera View Post
    Well, as I've already stated in another poll I do not believe in God, but fully respect the right of others to do so. Not that I haven't tried to go to church, read/understand the bible and I even went to church school for a short time. But every time I asked why Jesus died, I was always told "for our sins." To me, this was not a good enough answer and I felt silly and somewhat disrespectful trying to be part of a religion that I didn't understand or truely believe in.

    I prefer believing in many Gods and Goddesses as opposed to just one because being Wiccan (though not actively practicing) I choose to put my beliefs in nature and feel there needs to be more than one entity or deity "running" things.

    My not believing in God comes from the belief that God and religion aren't there for the masses; it's not something that should be discussed to the point of argument. It's there because you need to put your belief in something and find your center. As my grandmother said "believing keeps me sane" and I think it's more of a comfort zone or happy place where you can truely be yourself and put yourself in the hands of some all-powerful being when you're lost or don't know where else to turn.
    I totally get what you are saying! I was one of the students in church school the teacher hated. I always wanted to know 'what about this' and 'what about that', and 'that doesn't seem fair'. I never did feel right being catholic.
    My mother at one point was a devout catholic. Then her view points started to change. She introduced me to wicca. I fell in love with that religion. She always seemed to accept what I believed in no matter what she believed in at that moment. But she was always a good person. So why is it that some people believe that one or both of us would go to hell for not believing in the same thing they did. It doesn't makes sense. That is what they believe, that's fine but it shouldn't encroach on what others believe.

    It seems like no matter what you practice, we are all humans! even if you don't believe in a God or in many you still have somewhere to put your faith. For some religions it is in a God or in many, or if you at atheist in your self. Having belief helps us live and stay sane. It gives us hope when we are lost. I think that's why we have religion. Not for arguing or for an excuse to do something but for living with and thinking everything will be alright because you believe someone will rescue you or life will be better because of your believing.
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    I'm not entirely sure if this fits the thread, but I was wondering: does anyone here have experiences with the Ramtha sect ?

    A friend of mine is getting more and more involved with them and I wonder if I should get worried. I read up a little on them and from what I read it seems to be a relatively harmless new age cult, that talks painful bullshit about quantum mechanics but is certainly no worse then the big monotheist religions.

    I'd appreciate to learn of any ones personal experience though.

    As for my own faith, I'm agnostic.
    Last edited by Nixennacht; 05-12-10 at 09:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixennacht View Post
    I'm not entirely sure if this fits the thread, but I was wondering: does anyone here have experiences with the Ramtha sect ?

    A friend of mine is getting more and more involved with them and I wonder if I should get worried. I read up a little on them and from what I read it seems to be a relatively harmless new age cult, that talks painful bullshit about quantum mechanics but is certainly no worse then the big monotheist religions.

    I'd appreciate to learn of any ones personal experience though.
    Sorry to hear that; I'm afraid I hadn't heard of them before, so I can't help you with that.

    If you don't mind my asking, what was your friend's religion before (if any)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixennacht View Post
    I'm not entirely sure if this fits the thread, but I was wondering: does anyone here have experiences with the Ramtha sect ?

    A friend of mine is getting more and more involved with them and I wonder if I should get worried. I read up a little on them and from what I read it seems to be a relatively harmless new age cult, that talks painful bullshit about quantum mechanics but is certainly no worse then the big monotheist religions.

    I'd appreciate to learn of any ones personal experience though.

    As for my own faith, I'm agnostic.
    I'd be very worried. You don't know how bad it is on the inside and it sounds like it could be pretty bad. Using pseudo-science like that can make things even worse.

    Try debating it with her maybe and see what happens. Her reaction should be a clue.

    Heres a good source. Mind the generous dumping of cheese. It still is pretty reliable otherwise though.

    EDIT: Nup from what I've read they are definitely a cult. Maybe seek proper advice soon to make sure she doesn't get too deep.

    http://www.howcultswork.com/
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me.'" Robert Heinlen

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    I'm agnostic. I believe that there could be something out there that we do not understand but I don't believe it's the "God" of any organised religion practiced today. I've heard stories that have made me believe that it’s possible “something” is out there and I would like to think there is. However, I think people should watch the movie "Zeitgeist" because it does a very convincing job of showing how all of the different religions in the world, particularly Christianity and the story of Christ, are just borrowed from each other. Unfortunately I could never watch that film and believe in any of these religions ever again.

    I'm hopeful something greater is at work but believe if there is, it’s much greater and incomprehensible then the “God” people made up in their books.
    Last edited by vampmogs; 06-12-10 at 05:56 AM.

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    I was raised in a very strict Baptist home where we were forced to go to church. My dad made us go to church because he thought this would make sure we were good Christian girls, and that we would grow up with morals and dignity.
    While I understand why my dad did what he did, I don't agree with making a child go to church. My family (my husband, myself, and our two daughters) don't go to church at the moment. That being said, I believe there is a God, and I believe MOST of what I was taught growing up, but the big issue I have with church is that most churches are not friendly toward gay people and I do not agree with this. Set aside the fact that I'm bisexual, because I felt this way before I realized I was bi, but I do not believe that a God who is so full of love would make someone so that they fall in love with someone of the same sex, but then condemn them to Hell for it. I don't know if I believe all people who are gay/bi are that way because they're born that way, but I do think some people are, so this is why I have such a problem with people who claim that homosexuality is wrong and that if you're gay you're going to Hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilVampire View Post
    Sorry to hear that; I'm afraid I hadn't heard of them before, so I can't help you with that.

    If you don't mind my asking, what was your friend's religion before (if any)?
    He wasn't religious before. He worked a few years in an esoteric bookshop and while we made fun of all the bullshit in there, this is kinda what stuck with him.

    He is however not an easily manipulated person. He's usually a critical thinker and picks and choses what appeals to him in the philosphy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revan View Post
    I'd be very worried. You don't know how bad it is on the inside and it sounds like it could be pretty bad. Using pseudo-science like that can make things even worse.
    He's not really "on the inside", he's going on seminaries twice a year and reads their books.

    I think the pseudoscience is idiotic but it's not more idiotic than what say the catholics say.a

    Try debating it with her maybe and see what happens. Her reaction should be a clue.
    I did debate it with him and that helped a bit. I know that he doesn't base his principles on the sect. They for example have some kind of wine ceremony and are also kinda counter vegetarianism. My friend refuses to drink alcohol and stopped eating meat when he was four. Those are things that are important to him and he doesn't compromise them for the cult.

    He said, part of what appealed to him about them, was that they propagate that each person should listen closely to themselves and find out what is best for them. Find their personal way, which is empatically not the same for everyone, or what the leader tells you.

    He mostly ignores the pseudoscience.

    Heres a good source. Mind the generous dumping of cheese. It still is pretty reliable otherwise though.

    EDIT: Nup from what I've read they are definitely a cult. Maybe seek proper advice soon to make sure she doesn't get too deep.

    http://www.howcultswork.com/
    I read through the source and going by the key points in the material and most of those don't really fit the bill.

    I tried to find critical material about them but I only found two types of information.

    One was scientific criticism, which I completely agreed with but then it's a religion. Talking bullshit about science is kinda what they do for a living. The big ones, same as the small ones.

    The other was mostly from other religions, essentially saying you will go to hell, if you belong to the Ramthas instead of with them. I didn't find them credible at all.

    So I'm still unsure about the whole business. Which source led you to believe that they are dangerous?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixennacht
    He wasn't religious before. He worked a few years in an esoteric bookshop and while we made fun of all the bullshit in there, this is kinda what stuck with him.

    He is however not an easily manipulated person. He's usually a critical thinker and picks and choses what appeals to him in the philosphy.
    I see.

    From what I read in the Wikipedia article and a couple other sources I got to from there and a quick Google search, it appears (first impression, though) to be a scam, ala Scientology (though not necessarily as willing to use threats and the like as Scientologists are).

    If that first impression is correct, it's very unlikely that they'll go on a killing spree/mass suicide, etc., or generally promote violence (that would be really bad for business!), but if he gets into it, he might lose a lot of money.

    Maybe you should suggest that he take a look at their leader's history, copyright claims, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilVampire View Post
    I see.

    From what I read in the Wikipedia article and a couple other sources I got to from there and a quick Google search, it appears (first impression, though) to be a scam, ala Scientology (though not necessarily as willing to use threats and the like as Scientologists are).

    If that first impression is correct, it's very unlikely that they'll go on a killing spree/mass suicide, etc., or generally promote violence (that would be really bad for business!), but if he gets into it, he might lose a lot of money.

    Maybe you should suggest that he take a look at their leader's history, copyright claims, etc.
    From what I found online there was a splinter group that sounded dangerous, but the woman who leads the original cult (JZ Knight) sued her for the copyright and won. My friend is with the original group.

    I agree that he'll probably lose a bit of money, though the sect does not ask membership fees, they just offer somewhat expensive seminars and sell their books an cds.
    They don't seem as oppressive as scientology. I didn't find a source that said it was hard to quit if you wanted to.

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    I believe in God without a doubt. I have had many prayers answered and shared some pretty amazing experiences with Jesus. A relationship with Jesus is what we are all called to and it's such a personal thing that until you experience it for yourself (Which anyone can do if they pray and ask) it's really hard to describe the emmense power.

    I believe that The Bible is the total truth despite our lack of insight and understanding with some of the things written. I honestly believe that God does not reveal everything to a person at once, we couldn't handle that much truth, but little by little the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. What a kind and loving God we serve.

    Whosoever Shall Call Upon the Name of the Lord Shall Be Saved!

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    I'm Atheist. I do not believe in God, Satan, Heaven or Hell.

    I will never criticize someone for their religious beliefs, but it just isn't for me. I don't want to live my life trying to please someone else, someone who, at the end of the day, might not even exist. I don't want to walk on a tight rope my whole life just on the off chance that God and Heaven might exist, just so that I guarantee myself a place in 'his kingdom'.

    If, on the day I die, I find out that God/Heaven/Hell do, in fact, exist, I will salute that God, turn on my heel and saunter quite happily down to Hell. Because I will know that I have lived my life the way I wanted to live it, and I will have no regrets.
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    I am not religious and do not believe in mythical beings suchs as gods and vampires and zombies. I am however in love with literature, in particular ancient Greek and Roman. I love the gods in works such as the Iliad and the Aeneid. Diana, Jupiter and the rest fire my imagination. Although too often they were used to fix troubled plots. But that is what we have.

    I am not fond of the Biblical God. That god is overly cruel and petty. Actually stark raving mad is a better description. I read the Bible in full from Genesis to Revelation and prefer the Iliad.

    I also should state I dislike monotheisms. The history of monotheism is one of hatred and xenophobia. This is shown from its beginnings in Egypt to the birth of Christianity and Islam. It is not possible for every human to believe the same ideal. This to me proves the non existence of a wise god. And I tend to side with the Chinese who asked the Missionaries "If all non believers go to Hell, why did your Jesus wait so long to inform the Chinese?"
    Last edited by beech; 02-08-12 at 01:20 AM.

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    I am a militant atheist and a skeptic. I do not have a belief in god for any reason other than having been educated about the universe and various things that others might see God in. It's called the 'God of the Gaps'. The more you know, the less reason to believe a god(s) did it. The less you know, the more chance that you'll believe in a deity.

    The universe does not suggest itself to needing, nor having a God within it, or controlling it and thus the rational deduction is that there isn't one.

    If someone needs god to tuck them in at night, then I'd suggest a really good science book instead. They'll get more out of the book.

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