Twilight: Big Bad or Conflict of Interest?

[some spykie ship]

We now know that Twilight is a group of people who want to bring down the Slayer race, but one question keeps popping into my mind: Are these guys 100% evil, or are they just deluded and afraid to share the world with another superior race? I think it's a little of both, personally. Anyone else want to chime in?

[Ojuice5001]

I voted that they're both. They basically seem too fanatical to ever give up their Slayer-hating ways.

One thing I like about Buffy's confrontation with General Voll is how Buffy accuses him of "just being against women with power," and then Voll makes it very clear that he has much bigger reasons for being against the Slayers. Yeah, Buffy has always been about girl power, but it would be cliched to have a group of Big Bads who are motivated only by their hatred for women. That kind of sexism is fine for characterizing a bunch of jerk construction workers, but serious enemies need a more serious reason for being against Buffy. Even obviously misogynist villains like Warren and Caleb had layers to their evil that went way beyond their distaste for women, and I expect that the same will be true of Twilight as well.

[some spykie ship]

This kind of reminds me of X-men. Just like war-fearing mutants and/or humans end up trying to start a war, Twilight had to give a reason to people who didn't even know they existed. General Voll just had to try to kill Buffy and then shoot his mouth off about her and her sisters. I think just like The Initiative, Twilight will rue the day that they refused to leave well enough alone.

[Breathless]

I think that Twilight will possibly come up with a plan to kill off every single Slayer activated by the Scythe. In "Fray" they say that there hasn't been called a new Slayer in over 200 years and that the last one died in the 21 Century.

[Moscow Watcher]

aycheb posted a very interesting snippet here

http://stormwreath.livejournal.com/21701.html?thread=318917#t318917

In one of his recent interview about S8 Joss described the Twilight's aim as to rid the world of the magic that powers both demons and Slayers, which sounds very like the Alliance's doomed attempt to eliminate all aggression.

I'm trying to find this interview but no luck so far...

ETA

Aycheb has kindly provided the link:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20049318,00.html

Q Where is the story going to go?
A It's been indicated that there are people who are trying to get rid of the slayers because they represent the same kind of magic as the demons. So I'm putting the slayers in the global spotlight for a little bit — really getting to talk about shifts in power and trying to put an end to magic. That's what Buffy's fighting against. It's an epic story.

[Jenni Lou]

aycheb posted a very interesting snippet here

That's a very interesting parallel and one that hadn't occurred to me.

I voted for the ignorant/scared option but I think there just a little evil too so maybe I should have voted both. :p But basically it just seems as though this is yet another agency that doesn't understand that there some things that need to exist in order for the very human race to continue on.

Buffy's right. It IS all about power. It's about who has it and wants it and who is threatened by it.

[some spykie ship]

I think that Twilight will possibly come up with a plan to kill off every single Slayer activated by the Scythe. In "Fray" they say that there hasn't been called a new Slayer in over 200 years and that the last one died in the 21 Century.

This freaks me out a little. Did they say in "Fray" that it was an organization like Twilight that killed off all the Slayers at once, or was it done gradually? If it was done gradually, then it was demons around the world, and Twilight probably had nothing to do with it. The problem is, all the Slayers that could be called now are called, so if they all get killed, then it could take an extremely long time to straighten out the Slayer line and make it the way it was. I think for it to take 200 years for that to happen, the Slayers would have to be killed gradually. At least that's my rationalization.

[Anon]

This freaks me out a little. Did they say in "Fray" that it was an organization like Twilight that killed off all the Slayers at once, or was it done gradually? If it was done gradually, then it was demons around the world, and Twilight probably had nothing to do with it. The problem is, all the Slayers that could be called now are called, so if they all get killed, then it could take an extremely long time to straighten out the Slayer line and make it the way it was. I think for it to take 200 years for that to happen, the Slayers would have to be killed gradually. At least that's my rationalization.I'm not certain but I think what it said was that a slayer sealed away all demons and magic.

I've just looked it up on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fray).
It has been centuries since the last Slayer was called. Demons were banished from the Earth at some point in the 21st century by an unnamed Slayer and her friends, and the Watchers' Council has descended into a group of crazed fanatics. The vampires however, now dubbed lurks, have returned and haunt the city. In order to combat this threat a new Slayer is called: a professional thief named Melaka Fray. With the Watchers' Council ineffective, a group of "neutral" demons send the demon Urkonn to prepare Melaka Fray for the war that is to surely come.I don't think slayers were 'killed off' as such. Then again, Fray sounds like it was slightly AU, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

[Ojuice5001]

I don't think slayers were 'killed off' as such. Then again, Fray sounds like it was slightly AU, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

I would find it much cooler if demons and magic are never gone from Buffy's Earth. So on the one hand, I accept that as the canon currently stands, the twenty-first and twenty-second centuries are going to be free from demons and Slayers. "It was written!"

But on the other hand, if Mutant Enemy keeps making Buffy comics and TV productions for long enough, they will probably begin to find this concept to be an inconvenience that limits the stories they can write. And not cool enough to be worth preserving. Therefore, it's likely that they will eventually decide to rewrite the canon, and decide that, as you say, Fray makes a decent alternate universe, but it really isn't best to make it the destiny of the Buffyverse. And they'll write a story that takes the events leading up to Fray out of the canon's history. It will not remain part of the canon forever.;)

[Breathless]

Here follow a couple of quotes directly from the Fray comic that lays right in front of me as I write this: :)

-She is discovered.
-We're certain it's she?
-We are.
-No one has been called for two hundred years. The signs are dim- -
-Never the less. The Watchers have found her as well.
-The Watchers. Lunatics and fools.
-They mean to approach her. To begin the cycle anew.
-That must not be.
-Do you fear her?
-You overstep your bounds. She must be intercepted.
-We have summoned Urkonn. He will deal with her.
-He had best, for his own sake.
-He'll not fail. She's but a mortal.
-What is she called?
-Fray. Melaka Fray.

And here follows what happened to the last Slayer two hundred years ago:
Fray: Why don't you tell me what happened to the last one?
Urkonn: Because I don't know. It was some hundreds of years ago, in the twenty-first century. What we know is this - - there was a battle. A Slayer, possibly with some mystical allies, faced and apocalyptic army of demons. And when it was done... they were gone. All demons, all magicks, banished from this earthly dimension.
Fray: And the Slayer? Did she...
Urkonn: I do not know if she lived. But, the demons being gone, she was the last to be called. The line continued- - there were girls with the power, but they were never Called, never trained. Which may be why you don't have no memories of your heritage. The Council of Watchers fell to ruin, held together only by fanatics and fools. Those that believed the demons would return...

Ok, so here's the sitch: This last Slayer to be called could either be Buffy or Faith, or none of the two - but some other Slayer. However, it is most likely that it is Buffy in my book - as she is the only one with enough strength and experience to end all war with the forcess of darkness. We all know the Slayer power grows as the Slayer's get older, and Buffy has had the power the longest. It could also be Faith, but come on - she is a little unstable (Did anyone see that #8 cover? What the hell is her deal?!)! I'm also concidering another factor here - were the potentials ever really Called? I mean, sure, they got the Power, but they weren't CALLED like Buffy, Faith and all Slayers before them were - they were just handed the power by Willow. Could be the same deal, could be something completely else in the mystical-heritage-slayer-thingamabob way of things.

My point being, maybe the Twilight does figure out a way to destroy all the Slayers created by the Scythe, leaving only Buffy and Faith along with the Scoooby gang to fight the final battle (This fight would of course take place in season 9 - since Joss is all ready working on that). OR maybe the Slayers created by the Scythe will self-destruct? The power was never meant to be shared by two girls (Buffy and Kendra - Kendra died - and Buffy and Faith - Buffy died), let alone several thousand. Maybe the Slayer power is just not stable enough to sustain that many Slayers at once, and that is why they are speaking of the last Slayer in "Fray". So, in closing, that last Slayer could either be Buffy (most likely), Faith or another Slayer a long time after both Buffy and Faith are gone (I mean, a century does last a 100 years :)

[vampmogs]

Twilight are just as ignorant as Gunn’s old gang in the Ats episode ‘That Old Gang Of Mind.’ Twilight hate the slayers because their power comes from a demon, they hate them for what they *are* and not for what they *do.* If the slayers at mass were killing innocent people or doing harmful things to society then I’d understand their viewpoint. However, in mass from what we have seen, and what Twilight have seen, the slayers are an organisation who are fighting evil and therefore in no way deserve to be killed. Killing the slayers because their power originates from a demon is as ignorant as someone killing Clem or Lorne based on the fact that they are a demon.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

The Twighlight must be evil. Dude, they wear uniforms. Uniforms are evil - didn't anyone learn anything from Starwars...? (Unless you count those orange jumpsuits as uniforms). Robes are fine, but anything with epaulets or rank markings...evil. It's just the rules.

Seriously though, I think there are probably some good people in the Twighlight, just as there were in the Initiative, but the leadership are, if not evil, then lacking in humanity and understanding. They haven't bothered to try and understand what slayers are and are just going with their knee-jerk, "carpet bombing" reaction: kill anything that isn't a "normal" human being. It's ignorant, it's cowardly...actually, it's evil. Yup. I'm going with "they're baddy bad bad" (does it make you horny?)

[ThePoet's<3]

Here follow a couple of quotes directly from the Fray comic that lays right in front of me as I write this: :)

-She is discovered.
-We're certain it's she?
-We are.
-No one has been called for two hundred years. The signs are dim- -
-Never the less. The Watchers have found her as well.
-The Watchers. Lunatics and fools.
-They mean to approach her. To begin the cycle anew.
-That must not be.
-Do you fear her?
-You overstep your bounds. She must be intercepted.
-We have summoned Urkonn. He will deal with her.
-He had best, for his own sake.
-He'll not fail. She's but a mortal.
-What is she called?
-Fray. Melaka Fray.

And here follows what happened to the last Slayer two hundred years ago:
Fray: Why don't you tell me what happened to the last one?
Urkonn: Because I don't know. It was some hundreds of years ago, in the twenty-first century. What we know is this - - there was a battle. A Slayer, possibly with some mystical allies, faced and apocalyptic army of demons. And when it was done... they were gone. All demons, all magicks, banished from this earthly dimension.
Fray: And the Slayer? Did she...
Urkonn: I do not know if she lived. But, the demons being gone, she was the last to be called. The line continued- - there were girls with the power, but they were never Called, never trained. Which may be why you don't have no memories of your heritage. The Council of Watchers fell to ruin, held together only by fanatics and fools. Those that believed the demons would return...

Ok, so here's the sitch: This last Slayer to be called could either be Buffy or Faith, or none of the two - but some other Slayer. However, it is most likely that it is Buffy in my book - as she is the only one with enough strength and experience to end all war with the forcess of darkness. We all know the Slayer power grows as the Slayer's get older, and Buffy has had the power the longest. It could also be Faith, but come on - she is a little unstable (Did anyone see that #8 cover? What the hell is her deal?!)! I'm also concidering another factor here - were the potentials ever really Called? I mean, sure, they got the Power, but they weren't CALLED like Buffy, Faith and all Slayers before them were - they were just handed the power by Willow. Could be the same deal, could be something completely else in the mystical-heritage-slayer-thingamabob way of things.

My point being, maybe the Twilight does figure out a way to destroy all the Slayers created by the Scythe, leaving only Buffy and Faith along with the Scoooby gang to fight the final battle (This fight would of course take place in season 9 - since Joss is all ready working on that). OR maybe the Slayers created by the Scythe will self-destruct? The power was never meant to be shared by two girls (Buffy and Kendra - Kendra died - and Buffy and Faith - Buffy died), let alone several thousand. Maybe the Slayer power is just not stable enough to sustain that many Slayers at once, and that is why they are speaking of the last Slayer in "Fray". So, in closing, that last Slayer could either be Buffy (most likely), Faith or another Slayer a long time after both Buffy and Faith are gone (I mean, a century does last a 100 years :)


Breathless - that is an incredibley interesting post!! I have been meaning to move into the Fray comics!! I especially like your theory about the Potentials not being "called" to be Slayers. As said, they have the power of the Slayer they just have not been "called". And this being done by Willow with the Scythe. Last Slyer called would really be Faith. Kendra died and Faith was called. However, my thought is that the last Slayer standing will be Buffy.

[Breathless]

Breathless - that is an incredibley interesting post!! I have been meaning to move into the Fray comics!! I especially like your theory about the Potentials not being "called" to be Slayers. As said, they have the power of the Slayer they just have not been "called". And this being done by Willow with the Scythe. Last Slyer called would really be Faith. Kendra died and Faith was called. However, my thought is that the last Slayer standing will be Buffy.

Thank you very much, it all came to me in a gush of inspiration! :roll: I agree with you that Buffy will more than likely be the last person standing. You should really get the Fray comic book, it is above amazing. The story, the art, the Jossness of it :lol: So cool. Also we get to see flashbacks to previous Slayers and flashbacks to the last battle where a silhouetted Slayer stands alone infront of an army of giant monsters! I was also thinking, could this be Glory returning? Because the last frame of the flashback is of a female hand (Probably the/a Slayer's) being pulled into a closing portal with a tentacle wrapping itself around it. And thus all demons and magicks are banned from this plane. The hand could thus also belong to Glory being banished forever from our dimension. What do you think?