Undeniable Chemistry - The Spuffy Shippers Union!

[ThePoet's<3]

"I would rather have Spike and Buffy together - or Buffy alone, or dead."

That's sorta how I feel. Well I don't want Buffy dead. But I want her with Spike or no one. But see to me, Buffy being alone isn't a bad thing. A woman being alone and strong, what's wrong with that? To me though, end game, Buffy/Spike. I'm happy to admit that. Buffy was strong with Spike and he became stronger with her.

I will also go down with my SHIP!

That's a very mature way of looking at it - there's nothing wrong with her not being in a romantic relationship. Hope she won't be totally alone...

Not having James Marsters make it believable is absolutely an issue-well called!
Oh! Don't you know it! :heart::2party:

Make Spike go evil again (in a permanent way) and I'm gone. Especially without the promise of him becoming good again!

But it just seems like a place Joss would want to take him. That whole "two souled vampires in the universe" keeps circling in my head...

Whoa- why wouldn't Spike get his soul back? He actually went after it in the first place. Also, assuming he turns into the same vamp he did last time, we know that he retains tenderness and feelings for those he loved. (His mum.)

Darla was a bitter person prior to being vamped. She had no one and no reason to want to try. Spike does.

I think given the right circumstances, namely Buffy, Spike would continue to want his soul.

Also, don't you all think he just really likes being special in some way? His newest incarnation feeds into his desperate need to be somebody important.

OR - what if he DOESN'T lose his soul - and goes evil! I think that would be worse, don't you? I mean, I think I would rather have him lose his soul than for him to go evil with his soul intact!

I tend to agree that he would try to get his soul back with Buffy as the reason. However, I think he could lose it just as easily because of her. If she did something to hurt him or cause him tremendous pain I can see him riding off to have it removed! (With that same maturity level at issue..):(

Originally Posted by Enisy Well, you can always insert secks in the fade-to-black scene in Chosen. Joss green-lighted that option.

Yeah...but Joss hasn't definitely said it happened... It's not "canon". :( However - I would LOVE for us to find that it is true! :heart:

[Enisy]

Spuffy Home Videos - Spike's Scrapbook (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImCgr-eiicY) by Anne (http://www.youtube.com/user/SpuffyProductions)

OMGWATCHITIT'SSOGOOD.

But it just seems like a place Joss would want to take him. That whole "two souled vampires in the universe" keeps circling in my head...

Well...

Spike's the only souled vampire in the world at the moment, although I'm not sure how long that's gonna last.

I have another question:

"Big question. What do I want? Love -- family -- a place on this planet I can call my own... But you know what? I'm never going to have any of those things." So says Angel. What would Spike answer to the question of what he wants? And what would Buffy?

And borrowing these from my other forum:

Do you have a preference for the seasons that featured Spike/Buffy most heavily (Season 5, Season 6, Season 7), or is your 'shipping unrelated to your season(s) of preference?

If you couldn't have Spike/Buffy, would you rather the series end with A) Spike/Buffy/Angel, B) single!Buffy and single!Spike, or C) other Spike- and Buffy- centric ships?

[lara]

Originally Posted by Enisy
Could you ever see yourself "jumping 'ship"? What canon development could induce you to that?

No, honestly I don't think I could jump ship, Buffy and Spike together are still IT for me. I would hate it if they do not end up together by the end of whatever Joss has planned.

Originally Posted by ThePoet's<3
I actually think Spike needs a "relationship" of some sort post-Buffy. However, it makes me sad he would experience "making love" with anyone else but Buffy now that he has his soul. It seems she should be the first one to experience the real "Love" that Spike has for Buffy.

I agree with that, in his heart she's the one, you know, so she should be his first as a souled man. But the following is also true:

Originally Posted by ThePoet's<3
I actually think there is a LOT more story left in Spike before actually settling him down with Buffy.

I mean, he does not have to go sleeping around either, but he should have a chance to have his own life, you know, for over 5 year in his life it was all about Buffy, and later when he moved to Angel, it was all about Angel, I think Spike needs to stay away from both of them for a while and have his own life, find his own battles to fight for. He needs to cook his "cookies" too.

I'd like for him to do that, be cookies and then find Buffy again and realize how much he still loves her, and Buffy (who would be cookies too at the time) would welcome him back into her life to be finally together.

Originally Posted by Dorian's Kitten
Make Spike go evil again (in a permanent way) and I'm gone.

So am I baby, so am I. He's is not Angelus, never was, never will be, it would be totaly out of character because I don't think he ever was completely evil in the first place. He held some good inside that made him change with the years to the point of falling in love with Buffy.

I don't know, I just don't think that after all the things he went through in the past 7 years he would be able to become EVIL just because he lost his soul again or something like that, I don't think that's part of his personality.

Originally Posted by Enisy
"Big question. What do I want? Love -- family -- a place on this planet I can call my own... But you know what? I'm never going to have any of those things." So says Angel. What would Spike answer to the question of what he wants? And what would Buffy?

I think that what Spike would want is to know what is feels like to be loved as he has loved.

Buffy would want to figure out what the hell is what she really wants in life, 'cause that's her big issue.

[Enisy]

"Big question. What do I want? Love -- family -- a place on this planet I can call my own... But you know what? I'm never going to have any of those things." So says Angel. What would Spike answer to the question of what he wants? And what would Buffy?

Buffy wants to understand herself, and she wants to belong -- that's part of what made Chosen such a fitting series finale, with the cookie dough speech to cover the former and the empowerment spell to cover the latter. Unsurprisingly, these are reflected in her creator's aspirations, too...

Marti Noxon: I think that [Joss] does feel like it's sort of a meaningless void, and what matters is the struggle to find the good. And the relationships you build with people while you struggle. And in some ways you'll never find it, but the quest and the questors, and the people that you find, who are not necessarily your family, are the only thing that lends the journey meaning. I think that is his major theme.

As for Spike... well, love, ultimately, and a purpose (both of which were reflected in both of his series finales). What I find interesting about my thought process is that... the "love" that Angel wants, to me, can mean Buffy, but it can just as well mean Cordelia, Darla, Nina (with some work), etc; the only thing that's not at all interchangeable, in my mind, is his love for Connor. And... that's how I see Spike's love for Buffy, really. Ever since Beneath You.

...I probably don't deserve to roll my eyes at terms like "soulmates" and "forever" that Angel/Buffy fans tend to use, if I have the capacity to be that sappy and monomaniacal. :p

Do you have a preference for the seasons that featured Spike/Buffy most heavily (Season 5, Season 6, Season 7), or is your 'shipping unrelated to your season(s) of preference?

My favourites are:

1) Season 5
2) Season 2
3) Season 6

(Although I go back and forth between Season 2 and Season 6 for second place, really.)

Doesn't have anything to do with 'shipping. I just enjoy seasons focused on characters' complexities, moral dilemmas and grey areas more. (Season 2 is less controversial than I usually like them, but it has the occasional gem like Lie to Me, with Ford's very human motives, and I Only Have Eyes for You, with Buffy blaming herself for Angel's death, and Becoming, with Buffy teaming up with her mortal enemy... which makes it all worth it.)

If you couldn't have Spike/Buffy, would you rather the series end with A) Spike/Buffy/Angel, B) single!Buffy and single!Spike, or C) other Spike- and Buffy- centric ships?

Spike/Buffy/Angel. Anything akin to Chosen or The Girl in Question would do me fine, really. I also wouldn't mind a Dawson's Creek-esque ending for Buffy. It gives some satisfaction to both 'shipper groups (to Spike-Pacey because she chooses to spend her life with him, to Angel-Dawson because he's labelled as her "soulmate"), and it's the right kind of bittersweet. And I do find it interesting that Spike has been compared to Pacey within the series ("Pacey, you blind idiot, can't you see she doesn't love you?"), and Angel to Dawson ("Are you gonna come here and go all Dawson on me every time I have a boyfriend?")

[Dorian's Kitten]

Spuffy Home Videos - Spike's Scrapbook (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImCgr-eiicY) by Anne (http://www.youtube.com/user/SpuffyProductions)

OMGWATCHITIT'SSOGOOD.



Well...

Spike's the only souled vampire in the world at the moment, although I'm not sure how long that's gonna last.

I have another question:

"Big question. What do I want? Love -- family -- a place on this planet I can call my own... But you know what? I'm never going to have any of those things." So says Angel. What would Spike answer to the question of what he wants? And what would Buffy?

And borrowing these from my other forum:

Do you have a preference for the seasons that featured Spike/Buffy most heavily (Season 5, Season 6, Season 7), or is your 'shipping unrelated to your season(s) of preference?

If you couldn't have Spike/Buffy, would you rather the series end with A) Spike/Buffy/Angel, B) single!Buffy and single!Spike, or C) other Spike- and Buffy- centric ships?

First-The video was really funny. :lol:Poor Spike-what does it take? That is still the question, isn't it?

Big Question=Spike wants: To matter. Spike has always been plagued with feelings of inadequacy. He really wants to simply be good enough at something to be important. Equally important, he wants someone to love him the way that he is capable of loving. He wants someone to love him full-throttle, to not simply love what he does for them but him (actual him and not just his tough act). Importantly, I think that the two are connected- meaning that finding that relationship could be enough. He might not need to be a champion to feel important-he could probably get all that he really needs by simply being the perfect love of his beloved. Being the best-the number one person for that special someone else would probably be the perfect happiness that Spike seeks.

Season Preference- That's kinda tough. My mood and opinion on this changes. But if my re-watch habits are any guide I'd say:
1. Seventh-I really like the seventh season overall, I like Buffy's slightly perkier attitude and the whole mentor role she takes on and the Spuffy moments are really priceless. The speech-"When I say I love you..." is the most perfectly written and delivered romantic scene ever. How she doesn't just start pulling off his clothes is beyond me.
2. Sixth-Starts off soooo good. She is going to him and treating him like a man and like a friend. Then we get the confusing mix of hot and sad and Buffy beating on Spike and then we all saw red
3. Fifth-Definitely a well-conceived and produced season, but I don't really dig Dawn. Fool For Love is awesome.


Final Question:
A threesome is an entertaining idea, but I would worry that Spike would forever feel like he was both Buffy and Angel's second choice. I want him to be the one for someone-preferably Buffy...but Angel could work for me as well.

If I can't have that...single on both sides so I can still have hope for a future reconciliation.:heart:

[missperoxide]

Personally, I will go down with my ship.
Oh, that's so well put :D :hug:. And I'm so with you on that ship.

Let's say... Living in a convent regretting - bitterly - her decision of letting Spike get away. :D Better?
Agreed. Living in a convent regretting bitterly really is a minimum program for her. :D Btw, on the bitter regret, I just found a great Post Chosen AU on Youtube, Nothing Else Matters (http://youtube.com/watch?v=iW1KkysoP4g). It's sad, depressing and brilliant. (I am afraid that there's not much hope for Buffy and Spike getting together any time soon, and even if they did, there's the problem with drawn characters and not JM & SMG as already mentioned here. So I've started reading some fanfiction and I really like fanvideos, especially post Chosen AU-s that use material from SMG's and/or JM's later projects - it just adds a touch of "reality" to it).

Do you have a preference for the seasons that featured Spike/Buffy most heavily (Season 5, Season 6, Season 7), or is your 'shipping unrelated to your season(s) of preference
It's really tough question and my preferences vary from time to time too, of course. But right now, I think it's
S6 - Although it has its serious problems with Spuffy, Season 6 is the ultimate Spuffy season. First non-spell-caused kiss, first time making love, just wonderful scenes in After Life. Cute or sexy or funny Spuffiness in many other episodes like Dead Things, Older and Far Away, Gone, Life Serial. Etc. I could go on with this list.
S7 - Of course, it had much what S6 lacked: calm and understanding and helping each other Spuffy. But it lacked equality. Spike was sort of Buffy's dependent all the time. Plus there are too many Stupid-Buffy-episodes that really break my heart. First of all, when I think that Buffy obviously just left Spike alone at the church after learning that he got his soul back (for her!). And she just leaves him into that school basement for too long! Then there's this moment where Buffy promises Spike she'll help her and strokes his head and it turns out it's really actually The First. Or Spike's "But that's all it is is time, 'cause - God, help me, Buffy - it's still all about you." and Buffy's quite insensitive reaction to it. Plus I'm really not a fan of the "does it have to mean something" conversation. And I really do not like her kissing Angel just out of the blue (which is really really weird on both sides, concerning where they both were with their lives at that point. I mean, hug, kiss on the lips, it's OK, but did it really have to be a kissing fest?)
And I wish that Buffy wouldn't have been so very serious all the time. I really would have wanted Buffy and Spike giving less speeches to each other and having more conversations of the type like they had in The Killer in Me for example.
But it's still nice season when Spuffy is concerned. First, Buffy really backs Spike up, secondly she's obviously still attracted to him and thirdly she says the three words to Spike (albeit probably because she knew she was saying them to dying man).
S5 - also wonderful Spuffy season. Starting with the obvious Out Of My Mind (man, I really remember watching the end of the episode with my mouth literally open and also of course disappointment when it turned out to be a dream :D oh, these innocent days 8 years ago...) and Fool For Love and ending with obvious Intervention and Gift.
But what really strikes me is Spike's "And you - (to Buffy) wouldn't be able to touch me, because this, (pointing to Buffy, then to himself) with you, is wrong. I know it. I'm not a complete idiot." in Crush - James's acting is so wonderful here, I can FEEL Spike's confusion and anger toward himself and Buffy with every little inch of me. It's really powerful. (Oh, James is such a good actor :heart:).

[Paradise]

Miss Peroxide, great stuff! Well thought out and I love all you said. I personally love Season 7 the most but Season 6 did have such treasured great Spuffy moments, the beginning of their intense relationship that went through the ups and downs. I love it.

But season seven to me was the equality. Was the forgiveness and the love. Season 6 was the lust, need, and passion.

Now, my question, where is this quote from???

Sarah Michelle Gellar: I've seen a bunch of lists recently where they were talking about favourite characters, favourite shows... I saw the best love scenes this week - it was you and me, by the way.
James Marsters: Take that, Angel!

[Enisy]

Big Question=Spike wants: To matter.

How you figure? 'Cause he was constantly looking for Angel(us)'s approval?

The speech-"When I say I love you..." is the most perfectly written and delivered romantic scene ever.

My favourite Spike/Buffy scene from Touched is the "It's Only Love" montage. The speech has some really nice moments ("How you try..." ... "You're the One, Buffy."), but "You're a hell of a woman" makes me cringe. It's not Spike's brand of sappy, more like Riley's.

Now, my question, where is this quote from???

Sarah Michelle Gellar: I've seen a bunch of lists recently where they were talking about favourite characters, favourite shows... I saw the best love scenes this week - it was you and me, by the way.
James Marsters: Take that, Angel!

PaleyFest. All Spike/Buffy VIP quotes here (http://enisy.livejournal.com/1434.html) and here (http://enisy.livejournal.com/1654.html).


Questions:

Would Spike's view of his relationship with Buffy had improved or deteriorated, if he had witnessed the rest of her conversation with Angel in Chosen?

If the only way for Spike to get his soul back in Seeing Red to Grave was the gypsy curse (with the assorted "catch")... would he still have gone through with it?

Is there anything from the Spike/Buffy dailies you wish had made it onscreen?

[Dorian's Kitten]

How you figure? 'Cause he was constantly looking for Angel(us)'s approval?

Not just Angelus'. It seems to me like it started before he was vamped. Everyone taunted him and he just really wanted one person to "see him". Then he gets vamped and he clearly spends a good bit of time trying to impress Angelus. Then Dru, who was supposed to be his destiny, preferred Angelus. I think that all the fighting slayer stuff was part of his trying to be someone important. Then he gets the chip and he is really irrelevant in so many ways. I mean, he had developed that whole self-identity based upon being a big bad and then Dawn doesn't even find his company too rough. Add to all of that, Buffy's using him as a sex doll because (she felt) that his feelings weren't real or simply didn't matter. Yeah-I think he just really wants to feel like his existence matters.





Questions:

Would Spike's view of his relationship with Buffy had improved or deteriorated, if he had witnessed the rest of her conversation with Angel in Chosen?

If the only way for Spike to get his soul back in Seeing Red to Grave was the gypsy curse (with the assorted "catch")... would he still have gone through with it?

Is there anything from the Spike/Buffy dailies you wish had made it onscreen?

Hmm....question number one is interesting. I think it might have been about the same. He would probably have liked to hear her admit that he was in her heart and to hear her tell Angel that he would make difference, but hearing her say that she still thought about Angel would have hurt. I don't think it would have been a revelation to him though. So, since he was all willing with the snuggles after witnessing the kissage, I gotta say it probably wouldn't have made a difference.

Question number Two is really something-wow!
Maybe, I feel like suicide may have occurred to him first, but he felt like a monster and I don't always get the impression that he really expected another chance with her. He might have decided to get the soul and simply spend his life as her and Dawn's protector.

Number 3- Aside from Marster's bum?
I've seen a few dailies, but none of them included lines that I thought were better. In fact, the ones from Wrecked were kind of rough and have Spike saying some nasty and, I think, OOC stuff. If anyone knows of any that have nice, friendly and romantic lines that were cut-please let me know.:hug::hug:

[KingofCretins]

My favourite Spike/Buffy scene from Touched is the "It's Only Love" montage. The speech has some really nice moments ("How you try..." ... "You're the One, Buffy."), but "You're a hell of a woman" makes me cringe. It's not Spike's brand of sappy, more like Riley's.

Really, all speeches like that are tropes. I'm almost completely unimpressed by it. The only way to make it work is to either subvert it, or say something disarmingly authentic that you don't hear in the speech in other places. Like, Angel's "you held your heart before you" speech is ass, until he points out that its gross. Xander's "you make me feel like I've never felt before, like a man" speech to Anya has style because it's made up of images you don't hear often. "hell of a woman"... "the one"... bah. He'd have been better off adapting the poem about Cecily.

Would Spike's view of his relationship with Buffy had improved or deteriorated, if he had witnessed the rest of her conversation with Angel in Chosen?

It's a wash. He'd have known that the speech applied to him as well, and was all the more truthful for not having been directed at him.

If the only way for Spike to get his soul back in Seeing Red to Grave was the gypsy curse (with the assorted "catch")... would he still have gone through with it?

You're not going to like it but... no. Spike, soulless vampire, was altruistic to the sum of zero in seeking his soul -- he wanted the girl. The curse infamously means not *having* the girl. So there'd have been no upside unless all he wanted from Buffy was angst and staring.

Is there anything from the Spike/Buffy dailies you wish had made it onscreen?

The "Out of My Mind" dream sequence must be in dailies if it got filmed. Ergo, that.

[missperoxide]

Spike/Buffy/Angel. Anything akin to Chosen or The Girl in Question would do me fine, really. I also wouldn't mind a Dawson's Creek-esque ending for Buffy. It gives some satisfaction to both 'shipper groups (to Spike-Pacey because she chooses to spend her life with him, to Angel-Dawson because he's labelled as her "soulmate"), and it's the right kind of bittersweet. And I do find it interesting that Spike has been compared to Pacey within the series ("Pacey, you blind idiot, can't you see she doesn't love you?"), and Angel to Dawson ("Are you gonna come here and go all Dawson on me every time I have a boyfriend?")

Oh, I really like this Dawson's Creek comparison. And I absolutely would not mind an ending like that. As long as Spike's the one who gets to spend Buffy's life with her I can accept her to look at the moon, sigh and think about Angel from time to time. (After all, it's very natural to have over-romanticized picture of your First True Love).


Sarah Michelle Gellar: I've seen a bunch of lists recently where they were talking about favourite characters, favourite shows... I saw the best love scenes this week - it was you and me, by the way.
James Marsters: Take that, Angel!
[PaleyFest. All Spike/Buffy VIP quotes here (http://enisy.livejournal.com/1434.html) and here (http://enisy.livejournal.com/1654.html).
Yep, PaleyFest it is. Another one I really like (also from PaleyFest) is:
Sarah Michelle Gellar: (on the Buffybot) But I think, again, it's what keeps it fresh. You play a character for so long, and you don't want to get lazy. You find yourself relying on certain things, so by taking away all the other parts of Buffy, I did have to find exactly the essence of her again, and... you know, it was fun to be his slave for a little bit. (gesturing towards James)
James Marsters: Well, you got to be the master for a little while...
It's actually funny quote also in the sense that Sarah's basically saying that if you take away all the other parts of Buffy and find her essence again, that essence will be frolicking around with Spike :lol: (well, actually I'm not surprised, I know my essence would, too!)

If the only way for Spike to get his soul back in Seeing Red to Grave was the gypsy curse (with the assorted "catch")... would he still have gone through with it?
I think that if we assume he went for his soul, then he went for his soul, period. And if the only way to get it was the pesky curse that would turn him Angelesque big fluffy puppy with bad teeth, he would still have taken the soul.
But (although I know writers made it very clear afterwards that he did go after the soul and only soul) I wouldn't have minded at all if he actually went to get his chip out and then, surprise, ask more carefully what you want!, he get's his soul back and has to deal with that.

Is there anything from the Spike/Buffy dailies you wish had made it onscreen?

Some :) And luckily many of them are in the video Sarah & James Appreciation (http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6RALYJBTOE)
It would have been so funny if the first clip from the video: "You came back wrong" - "No I didn't" was actually in Smashed.
Then also dailies of Doublemeat Palace sex scene (one of my least favorite Spuffy scenes, it's just so cold and hopeless and sad). But the dailies are super! James and Sarah laughing and snuggling under Spike's coat. I could totally picture this in the series. Also there's the end sex-scene of Smashed, but with smiling and talking. Cute.
Plus this vid is overall good, for example it has the Smashed bringing down the house scene and when it's cut someone from the crew says "Now we know why they call him Spike" :roll:

[Enisy]

Really, all speeches like that are tropes. I'm almost completely unimpressed by it. The only way to make it work is to either subvert it, or say something disarmingly authentic that you don't hear in the speech in other places. Like, Angel's "you held your heart before you" speech is ass, until he points out that its gross. Xander's "you make me feel like I've never felt before, like a man" speech to Anya has style because it's made up of images you don't hear often. "hell of a woman"... "the one"... bah. He'd have been better off adapting the poem about Cecily.

No, Xander's speech is lame, too. :p (Into the Woods as a whole is lame, for that matter.) As for Spike's speech, I like the double-entrende in "the one", I like "how you try", I like "I'm not asking you for anything" (for the connotations), but "I've seen your kindness and your strength", "best and the worst of you", "hell of a woman"... blegh.

To be fair, though, many people (primarily non-Spike/Buffy fans, curiously) seem to like it, so good on Rebecca.

You're not going to like it but... no. Spike, soulless vampire, was altruistic to the sum of zero in seeking his soul -- he wanted the girl.

I don't think it's as simple as "he wanted the girl" -- if that was all, he would have gone for the soul in Crush, when Buffy told him that "he couldn't love without a soul", or Dead Things, when she beat his face into a pulp repeating that "he doesn't have a soul" and "he can't feel anything real" and "she could never be his girl". For the bathroom scene to be the trigger instead of the above, he must have also wanted to prevent himself from hurting Buffy again, annnnd he must have made a realization about himself, as Joss pointed out.

Is there anything from the Spike/Buffy dailies you wish had made it onscreen?

The close-ups of the As You Were kisses. The forehead-touching in Gone (*gazes longingly at DK's avatar*). Spike stroking her shoulder in Dead Things (this is really hot, watch it if you get the chance). Tara's "Sweetie, I'm a fag, I've been there", if only to make the similarities that many of us have spotted between Spike/Buffy and your average homosexual relationship textual.

And luckily many of them are in the video Sarah & James Appreciation (http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6RALYJBTOE)

LOL, the wank James's saying Sarah's name in that scene has spawned... I think he was just signaling her to lean her forehead against his, really.

Speaking of the Dead Things dailies, I like Sarah's "Never. ...Oh shit, I have rugburn", with James leering and leaning over her. Heeeeeeeeeeee. And Sarah giggling "Heyheyheyheyhey, not so far, James, it's a close-up!!"

[ThePoet's<3]

Thanks Enisy for the Questions and the Vids!!!:2party:


"Big question. What do I want? Love -- family -- a place on this planet I can call my own... But you know what? I'm never going to have any of those things." So says Angel. What would Spike answer to the question of what he wants? And what would Buffy?
I've always believed Spike to be a more "in the moment" vampire. Spike searches and invests in the happiness - or the pain - that is "now".

For example, "In the Woods" Riley asks him, "Do you think you have a chance with Buffy?" And Spike basically tells him - "No (his self-doubt) but I have to try." And when he awoke from his erotic dream that told him he was in love with Buffy, it was "Oh, God no. Please, no." And instead of doing everything possible to resist his investing in his feelings he embraced them.

I think Spike would say what he wants is NOW. And if you want it bad enough you will do just about anything to get it.

Do you have a preference for the seasons that featured Spike/Buffy most heavily (Season 5, Season 6, Season 7), or is your 'shipping unrelated to your season(s) of preference?

I can't help it - but Season 6 is some of my very favorite Spuffy preferences. I LOVE the chemical attraction and sex! It's very rewarding for all the half-hearted flirting of Season 5.

But coming up a very close second is Season 7 - with the potential of what could have been so sweet after Season 6.

I like Season 5 for some of the more poignant Spuffy moments - when Buffy entrusts Dawn and her mother to Spike's care, when Spike proves his loyalty to Buffy (time and time again), when Spike realizes he cares about Buffy when she is hurting and when Spike turns his back on Drusilla for Buffy - even though it leaves him nowhere.

If you couldn't have Spike/Buffy, would you rather the series end with A) Spike/Buffy/Angel, B) single!Buffy and single!Spike, or C) other Spike- and Buffy- centric ships?

I would like to see either a B or C scenario...:p (Or a write in... D) Buffy in convent...bitter...with regret...:lol:

Would Spike's view of his relationship with Buffy had improved or deteriorated, if he had witnessed the rest of her conversation with Angel in Chosen?
I think improved! She said she was cookie dough and not ready to choose "Angel" right then. He would have understood he still had a chance with Buffy!

If the only way for Spike to get his soul back in Seeing Red to Grave was the gypsy curse (with the assorted "catch")... would he still have gone through with it?

Yikes! I don't know... I think yes... I think no... I think... I don't know!

I lean towards yes...but Spike just doesn't "do" brooding, remoseful guy.
So I'm not sure he would.

Is there anything from the Spike/Buffy dailies you wish had made it onscreen?

I think one of the Newb Spuffy's pointed out Spike's POV from the breakup scene in "As You Were".

THe continuation of all SPex scenes would have been nice...:D

[lara]

Originally posted by ThePoet's<3
"Big question. What do I want? Love -- family -- a place on this planet I can call my own... But you know what? I'm never going to have any of those things." So says Angel. What would Spike answer to the question of what he wants? And what would Buffy?
I've always believed Spike to be a more "in the moment" vampire. Spike searches and invests in the happiness - or the pain - that is "now".

For example, "In the Woods" Riley asks him, "Do you think you have a chance with Buffy?" And Spike basically tells him - "No (his self-doubt) but I have to try." And when he awoke from his erotic dream that told him he was in love with Buffy, it was "Oh, God no. Please, no." And instead of doing everything possible to resist his investing in his feelings he embraced them.

I think Spike would say what he wants is NOW. And if you want it bad enough you will do just about anything to get it.

Do you have a preference for the seasons that featured Spike/Buffy most heavily (Season 5, Season 6, Season 7), or is your 'shipping unrelated to your season(s) of preference?

I can't help it - but Season 6 is some of my very favorite Spuffy preferences. I LOVE the chemical attraction and sex! It's very rewarding for all the half-hearted flirting of Season 5.

But coming up a very close second is Season 7 - with the potential of what could have been so sweet after Season 6.

Interesting point of view, I definitely agree with you!! :)


If the only way for Spike to get his soul back in Seeing Red to Grave was the gypsy curse (with the assorted "catch")... would he still have gone through with it?

I don't know, he wanted his soul so he wouldn't hurt Buffy ever again, but also because that might give him a chance to finally BE with her, the way he wanted to, having the "gypsy curse" wouldn't allow him that, BUT... maybe he would have done it, he was so heartbroken at the time and he really wanted to do things right for a change so... yes, I think that he might have tried anything, including accepting the gypsy curse with its "catch".


Is there anything from the Spike/Buffy dailies you wish had made it onscreen?

Yes a lot of them actually but specially the complete scene that they cut from "Dead Things" or some scenes that I imagine but that are only in my head... like one sweet moment between the two of them, just one.


Um, there's something I'd like to ask guys...

I have gotten all the Spuffy scores of the seventh season, I could find. I have a "The final fight" (Robert Duncan) and the extended version "Chosen" (from duncan's site on the net) But from those scores the actual "Buffy & Spike love theme" is only 1:05' long, I'm wondering if there is an extended version of the song (like there is of "Close your eyes", you have an original version and a just piano version, etc.) or maybe a longer version of the song. If there is do you know about it? Also, I looked everywhere I could think of and I have yet to find "Nobody's hurt yet" Buffy & Spike theme from "Smashed". Can any of you guys help me out? :s

[ThePoet's<3]

Um, there's something I'd like to ask guys...

I have gotten all the Spuffy scores of the seventh season, I could find. I have a "The final fight" (Robert Duncan) and the extended version "Chosen" (from duncan's site on the net) But from those scores the actual "Buffy & Spike love theme" is only 1:05' long, I'm wondering if there is an extended version of the song (like there is of "Close your eyes", you have an original version and a just piano version, etc.) or maybe a longer version of the song. If there is do you know about it? Also, I looked everywhere I could think of and I have yet to find "Nobody's hurt yet" Buffy & Spike theme from "Smashed". Can any of you guys help me out? :s

Oh lara -I wish I could! And actually I'm so envious of your music collection!! I would love some of the themes you mentioned - I have YouTube vids of Chosen and Restless (SKate style!) but nothing else. I don't even know what the "Buffy and Spike" love theme even sounds like!! I would love to hear the 1:05 you've heard!!:D

[lara]

Originally posted by ThePoet's<3
Oh lara -I wish I could! And actually I'm so envious of your music collection!! I would love some of the themes you mentioned - I have YouTube vids of Chosen and Restless (SKate style!) but nothing else. I don't even know what the "Buffy and Spike" love theme even sounds like!! I would love to hear the 1:05 you've heard!!

I'm actually very proud of my soundtrack collection, I don't have all the music of the show, but I'm very close!! The composers Beck, Thomas, Robert, etc. did an excellent job with the scores.

"The final fight (Original score - 4:03)" is the score used in 7.22 "Chosen" and it's played during the fighting scene in the cave and all the way 'till the moment in which Buffy tells Spike that she loves him. It's titled "The final fight (Original score - 4:03)" in Radio Sunnydale album, but in Robert Duncan's site it was titled "Chosen (the short version - Buffy & Spike Love theme - 4:02)".

Then, there is another version of the song (also in Duncan's site) called "Chosen (the long version - 7:51)" and that is the music played during the fight scene, the spuffy moment and goes until the very end of the episode. It is a wonderful piece (it makes me cry every time I hear it), very according with the events, very epic, just perfect.

I'm not sure if these two versions are a combination of the music that we hear during season 7 or if it was the other way around and the music was composed first and used in pieces during different episodes, but I know that when you hear it complete it's the most beautiful song ever!!

"Buffy & Spike Love theme" it's part of both scores "The final fight (Original score - 4:03)" and "Chosen (the long version - 7:51)" It's 1:05 long and it's heard for the first time in 7.02 "Beneath You". It's the music you hear when they are in the church and Spike is telling Buffy about his soul. You hear it several times during all the spuffy moments in season 7, but with some variations, an example is in "End of Days" when they have the conversation about being "shirty" and the "maybe when..." it is heard with a bit piano in the middle, and it's part of what makes that scene so touching. Hearing that particular piece in "End of Days" was what made me wonder that maybe if they played different versions of the song in some episodes there could be a clean copy of them somewhere, and of course I would love to get them, so I have to ask around!!

I would Love to share "Buffy & Spike Love theme" with every spuffy fan there is around, if you really are one, it would be the most beautiful 1:05 of music you'll ever hear.

I'm not so good with this computer stuff, I don't know about all the things you can do on the net, but I promise I'll be a good girl and I'll try to find a way to share!!

Once again, if anybody can give me a clue about this subject I'll really appreciate it. :)

[missperoxide]

I've been searching the music from Smashed too, Lara. Nobody seems to have it. The score in Smashed was composed by Thomas Wander (aka Thomas Wanker :lol:) but there is nothing on his homepage nor anywhere else in the net. So if anyone ever finds the Smashed score, please let me know too.
Actually I really cannot understand why there's no separate version of the Duncan's "Buffy & Spike Love Theme" and absolutely nothing of the music from Smashed. (Really weird, I mean, they have Buffy & Angel themes on every imaginable BtVS soundtrack :() Spuffy fanbase is big enough, so there certainly is a "demand" for this. And they MUST have all kinds of different versions of Duncan's B/S score because it really was playing in so many Spuffy scenes in S7.
Plus these both are very beautiful melodies...


ThePoet's<3, I also have Spike's trigger song "Early One Morning" by Nana Moskouri - so if you want I can try to send it to you by e-mail, just PM me.

[lara]

Originally posted by missperoxide
I've been searching the music from Smashed too, Lara. Nobody seems to have it. The score in Smashed was composed by Thomas Wander (aka Thomas Wanker ) but there is nothing on his homepage nor anywhere else in the net. So if anyone ever finds the Smashed score, please let me know too.
Actually I really cannot understand why there's no separate version of the Duncan's "Buffy & Spike Love Theme" and absolutely nothing of the music from Smashed. (Really weird, I mean, they have Buffy & Angel themes on every imaginable BtVS soundtrack ) Spuffy fanbase is big enough, so there certainly is a "demand" for this. And they MUST have all kinds of different versions of Duncan's B/S score because it really was playing in so many Spuffy scenes in S7.
Plus these both are very beautiful melodies...

Looking for the song in "Smashed" was so frustrating, I've spent months trying, so I want info too if anyone ever finds it please!!

And I coundn't agree with you more!! The two songs are great and there's definitly "demand" of them. The different versions should be made accesible for the fans.

About the "Buffy & Spike Love theme" and I have to say, after spending months in front of the computer trying to find all the songs we've heard on the show, I don't remember anymore exactly where or how I got this specific piece. Probably, it was from Robert Duncan's site, the songs he wrote for season 7 where there available for download, but I've check the site lately and realised it's not functioning at the moment.

But I wanna share, so if anyone wants "Buffy & Spike Love theme" or "Chosen (the long version)" PM me or check my journal.

[Moscow Watcher]

I stumbled on a brilliant Spuffy essay on Yahoo!

By the “End of Days” Buffy and Spike are “Chosen” “Fool[s] for Love”

http://www.geocities.com/spikeandbuffyaresoulmates/SpikeandBuffysoulmates.html

Great read.:heart:

[missperoxide]

This really is a great read, thank you for the link Moscow Watcher! It explains in great and insightful detail why it is Buffy and Spike who really are "soul mates" and meant for each other.
As for the future, author of the essay concludes: But, soul mates cannot live contently without each other. Presumably his desire for Buffy will eventually outweigh his fear of tarnishing his heroic death, and he will go searching for her. And although Buffy continued her life without Spike by necessity, thinking him dead, upon news of his revitalization, she will doubtlessly long to see him. As their relationship becomes re-established, surely Spike’s confidence in Buffy’s love will grow secure.
Of course I wonder about this. I'm afraid that although this essay's points are very valid, I just guess Joss has other plans for Buffy and happily ever after with Spike is just not one of those things (yet?). Plus there are also other "external" factors about them reuniting. One is that I'm afraid Joss never liked Spike so very much to give HIM a happy ending. And other is that Joss probably wouldn't want to make bangel-fandom go crazy. On more personal note, after my last rewatching of the show (Spuffy-wise) I became somehow disheartened with them (I mean, not REALLY, but in a way). There were just too many painful moments, too many moments where I went dammit Buffy WHAT the hell are you doing, woman? And now I really wish that Spike would get something good for his (un)life, for himself, because he really has deserved it. But the soddin' vampire only seems to want Buffy so that's what I have to want for him, too.

Plus all this doesn't matter anyway. Buffy and Spike with all their good and bad, all their contradictoriness still are one the greatest love stories of the contemporary TV (until to this day, years after the show has ended the two still pop up on lists as "best first kiss" and "hottest making love scene" etc). Also I guess there doesn't necessarily have to be a happy ending for them to be the greatest love story ever.
And in a way I've gradually started to retreat into fan fiction anyway. There's only so much angst and weird mixed signals one can take. I need some fluffy Spuffy too. Plus I have to say that for me, in a way, S8 never happened anyway and Spike and Buffy got their own ending, which could be called "Something Old, Something New" for example :) and in which they're finally getting over all the crap thats keeping them apart and living happily (and snarkily) ever after. And Spike gives Buffy the rose garden because that would be alive.

[Enisy]

The term "soul mates" lost all value for me in the Buffyverse, after Angel/Darla, Angel/Buffy and Angel/Cordelia were all marketed as such (by the writers, or the actors, or the text, by turns). But I've seen the term "kindred spirits" used for Spike/Buffy in the fandom, which is kind of better.

There were just too many painful moments, too many moments where I went dammit Buffy WHAT the hell are you doing, woman? And now I really wish that Spike would get something good for his (un)life, for himself, because he really has deserved it. But the soddin' vampire only seems to want Buffy so that's what I have to want for him, too.

So you'd jump 'ship if Spike fell in love with another girl?

[lara]

Originally posted by Moscow Watcher

I stumbled on a brilliant Spuffy essay on Yahoo!

By the “End of Days” Buffy and Spike are “Chosen” “Fool[s] for Love”

http://www.geocities.com/spikeandbuf...soulmates.html

Great read.

I read the essay, thank you for posting it, it is really good. It presents a valid and very interesting point of view on Spike & Buffy's relationship. I like the comparison between Buffy and Dru, that's something I haven't read anywhere else.

It is a deep analisis on why Spike and Buffy are soulmates (as all of us spuffy fans like to think) and I agree with many of the ideas presented. The idea of them being equals, is something I always thought they were.

And then, there's something more I like to add, I think Buffy is the kind of person that due to her experiences in life (and traumas) has the profound need to be loved and cared for. Because she's the slayer she has to be strong and tough and brave, but even thought she's a heroin there's only so much pressure a person could take, and so she needs someone who would understand her and love her even in her not so good moments, someone that would say: "You know baby, things are bad right now, and you're not feeling great but it's ok, you don't have to brave for me, I've got your back, I'm here and I still love you no matter what". Spike has the need to be devoted, to care for something, to give (he was devoted to his mother, to Dru and then to Buffy) that's part of who he is, so he's the guy that plays the part of the supporting boyfriend/partner. And that's a big part of their attraction towards each other, their needs are complementary and it's part of why they fit together. And that's perfectly normal, we all function based on our needs (weather these are concious or unconcious) and it's normal that we look for a partner that would satisfy those needs, that complete whatever we don't have.

And about what Joss has planned, I agree with you missperoxide, maybe he doesn't have a happy ending for Spike (yet), 'cause he didn't even planned the character to stay alive in the first place. Like you, I also retreated to fan fiction a long time ago 'cause I kind of need a happy fluffy ending for them too!

But I'm still reading season 8 of Buffy and Angel after the fall, maybe (silly me) I still have a little bit of hope that Joss would stop worring so much about not disappointing the bangel fans and start worring a little bit more about us, the spuffy fans and give us something to look forward to.

[missperoxide]

So you'd jump 'ship if Spike fell in love with another girl?
Nah, of course I wouldn't. I was just ranting a bit because of my last re-watch has really got me a bit depressed over the S6 and S7 too. Perhaps I will write all the things down that were bothering me so that other Spuffies can pat on my shoulder and say there there and no it's not so bad :)
I've never shipped, never invested so much of my time in a fictional couple (in my adult life at least). And the fact that at the ripe old age of 27 and quite a few years after the show has ended I still ship them - well it obviously means something, means that they're so compelling, that there still are things to discuss, things to say, to think about, to analyze (thank God for the Internet forums, god forbid should I bore my friends with the constant BtVS/Spuffy talk, they would so think I've lost it :lol:)

Also, if Spike fell in love with another girl, it would happen on pages of a comic book. So it's pretty certain that anything happening to drawn characters couldn't top James's marvelous performance of Spike. So I would never actually believe that he'd love anyone else more than Buffy.
Plus of course Spuffy was so slow and gradual, so subtle in its progress that nothing would ever top that. Spuffy wasn't predestined (e.g. pre-concieved plot by the writers), it just happened, like in the real life things just happen. There's nothing much that could exceed that.

The idea of them being equals, is something I always thought they were. And that's a big part of their attraction towards each other, their needs are complementary and it's part of why they fit together. And that's perfectly normal, we all function based on our needs (weather these are concious or unconcious) and it's normal that we look for a partner that would satisfy those needs, that complete whatever we don't have.
Yeah, that's the big appeal for me too. They really do complement each other, in countless ways.

But I'm still reading season 8 of Buffy and Angel after the fall, maybe (silly me) I still have a little bit of hope that Joss would stop worring so much about not disappointing the bangel fans and start worring a little bit more about us, the spuffy fans and give us something to look forward to.
And I would also add that Joss should stop worring so much not disappointing the bangel fans and start worring about what Spike and Buffy want, what they deserve!

[Moscow Watcher]

missperoxide
I'm afraid Joss never liked Spike so very much to give HIM a happy ending.

My impression is that he loves Spike too much to give him a happy ending. The more he loves the character, the more he tortures him. (Either that or the only couple he loves is Willow-Kennedy).

And in a way I've gradually started to retreat into fan fiction anyway.

May I recommend to you and Lara two great writers, Anaross (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=anaross) and Cousinjean (http://www.dark-solace.org/elysian/viewuser.php?uid=61)?

Both are my faves.

[missperoxide]

My impression is that he loves Spike too much to give him a happy ending. The more he loves the character, the more he tortures him. (Either that or the only couple he loves is Willow-Kennedy).
Haha :D could be it!
But still - I feel that Joss is not entirely comfortable with Spike. That Spike sort of went out of his hands and started living a life of his own. Maybe Joss is a bit cross at him because of that? :)
Because I feel he sort of leaves the whole issue unaddressed. Spike died for her, he saved the world - so that there would be a better world for her to live in. And we don't see Buffy's thoughts on the issue at all. We don't know anything what Buffy felt after Chosen. All we got is the dream in S8 and the comment about those who love her tending to die. And that's all. Nothing more. I'd say this is not addressing the topic. Of course it could also be because of the whole copyrights issue but still I would have wanted to know her feelings and thoughts about this more.

[lara]

Originally posted by missperoxide

I feel that Joss is not entirely comfortable with Spike. That Spike sort of went out of his hands and started living a life of his own. Maybe Joss is a bit cross at him because of that?
Because I feel he sort of leaves the whole issue unaddressed. Spike died for her, he saved the world - so that there would be a better world for her to live in. And we don't see Buffy's thoughts on the issue at all. We don't know anything what Buffy felt after Chosen.

All we got is the dream in S8 and the comment about those who love her tending to die.
And that's all. Nothing more. I'd say this is not addressing the topic. Of course it could also be because of the whole copyrights issue but still I would have wanted to know her feelings and thoughts about this more.

Yeah it could be because of the copyrights issue, but hey he created the characters! He doesn't have to say the name if that's the problem, he could just give some hints about the character he would be talking about. I also feel the way you do about the whole subject missperoxide and we should hear more about Spike in season 8 comic!

And now, go along with me guys, lets say Joss finally listen to the spuffy fans and decides to have Buffy thinking or speaking about Spike in the comic...

What would you like to read? You know, Buffy mourning Spike's death, finding out that he's not so dead and working with Angel (I understand that due to the time line the Angel finale with the big battle against W&H did not happen yet) or something else?

And if he was to make an appearance at the comic, how would you like it to be?

[LaJaula]

I understand that due to the time line the Angel finale with the big battle against W&H did not happen yet

I always thought that Buffy Season Eight started after Not Fade Away. It's a year and a half (give or take) after the end of Season Seven, no? So that puts The Long Way Home in the Fall of 2004-ish. NFA was in May of 2004, and since After the Fall is a few months after NFA, then AtF issue one is roughly around the same time as 8.01, maybe a little bit earlier.

[KingofCretins]

Because "After the Fall" is taking place in another dimension, it is completely adrift from "Buffy" in the timeline. There is no frame of reference. A few months in Hell A might have been 45 minutes to Buffy, or 150 years.

As for Season 8 relative to the ordinary timeline of "Angel", 8.01 "The Long Way Home" begins sometime around November of 2004, about 6 months, give or take, after "Not Fade Away".

[lara]

Originally posted by KingofCretins
Because "After the Fall" is taking place in another dimension, it is completely adrift from "Buffy" in the timeline. There is no frame of reference. A few months in Hell A might have been 45 minutes to Buffy, or 150 years.

Good point there, yeah I didn't think about the different dimension thing.

Originally posted by KingofCretins
As for Season 8 relative to the ordinary timeline of "Angel", 8.01 "The Long Way Home" begins sometime around November of 2004, about 6 months, give or take, after "Not Fade Away".

Oh, sorry, I understood it wrong then. So Buffy 8.01 starts after Not Fade Away, that's even better for my questions 'cause then thers's no way that Buffy couldn't have known about Spike coming back or about him helping Angel to take down the Senior Partners. So they should be mentioned in the comic.

[vampmogs]

Oh, sorry, I understood it wrong then. So Buffy 8.01 starts after Not Fade Away, that's even better for my questions 'cause then thers's no way that Buffy couldn't have known about Spike coming back or about him helping Angel to take down the Senior Partners. So they should be mentioned in the comic.

Na Brian Lynch said we're going to discover why Buffy and the Scoobies haven't mentioned what's happened to LA, and why the rest of the world hasn't noticed. Most people have guessed there's been a glamour used to hide what's going on in LA so the rest of the world doesn't know what's going on which seems the most likely reason.

Also have to remember that it's been at least a year and a half since 'Chosen' so Buffy's moved on. It's not like she's going to be talking about Spike all the time anymore than Xander would about Anya. And we're only coming up to Issue #15 out of 40 issues, so it's jumping the gun here, there's still plenty of time for his name to pop up or for Buffy to talk about him more seriously. But given what's happening I'd say she's got enough things to worry about right now than what happened a year or so ago so it makes sense she wouldn't bring up Spike a lot, let alone Angel or Riley.

[Nina]

And in Ats season 5, it seemed that team Buffy isn't very interested in team Angel. Actually, they tried to cut the bounds between the teams. They think that team Angel is corrupted and evil (okay I still don't buy that they would give them up so easily ... but right now I don't see a reason to believe that Andrew was wrong about that), so it doesn't suprise me if Buffy doesn't know anything about what is happening with Angel's team, before and after NFA ... and somewhere, I think she doesn't really care.

[missperoxide]

OK, my knowledge of the comics is not very thorough - does Buffy or doesn't she know that Spike actually came back from the Hellmouth? And if we assume she doesn't then why is that Andrew never told her? But if Andrew did told her and she does know and she actually didn't bother to go and have even a small chat or just a telephone conversation with the man who loved her so much he got the soul for her and saved the world for her, then, I really don't know what to say...

[Nina]

I think that she doesn't know, because she was acting like she believed that he was still dead in a converstaion with Satsu, but I'm not sure. In that case Andrew did what he promised Spike, Spike didn't want Buffy to know about his return and told Andrew that.

[missperoxide]

All right, in that case we'll assume that Andrew didn't tell (I really wonder why). And is it that Angel: After the Fall takes place in some alternate universe so should Buffy find out that Spike came back after the Hellmouth she still wouldn't know anything what happened to him after NFA and she actually wouldn't be able to contact him even if she wanted because in her reality they do not exist anymore? Or..?

[Nina]

If she found out after NFA she can't call or visit, because Spike is in a hell dimension. We don't know what that means right now, we don't know the limits of hell neither do we know what the people outside LA know about the current situation of LA.

And I think that the writers use Andrew because you never know what he does and doesn't. They can retcon a story with saying that Andrew lied or ignored requests but they can also choose for the option that he was telling the truth and that he did what he was supposed to do. So maybe he told (and ignored Spike's request) or he kept his mouth shut and respected Spike's request. They can decide what he did when they need to pick up this storyline again.

But I wouldn't count on to much story about this all in the next issues, Buffy's team made it very clear that they don't want to be in touch with Angel's team and Brian Lynch made it also very clear that Buffy isn't visiting LA anytime soon. The only chance is a visit of Ats characters in BtVS season 8 after ATF ends.

[missperoxide]

But I wouldn't count on to much story about this all in the next issues, Buffy's team made it very clear that they don't want to be in touch with Angel's team and Brian Lynch made it also very clear that Buffy isn't visiting LA anytime soon. The only chance is a visit of Ats characters in BtVS season 8 after ATF ends.

I don't exactly count on it too and right now it doesn't matter so much to me either because although I follow the comics in a way they do not hold a grip over me in a sense that I just HAVE to know what's happening next.

So, Buffy's team made it clear they don't want anything to do with Angel's team. So is she totally over Angel? She doesn't trust him anymore and doesn't need to be in contact with him anymore? What happened to always & forever?
Regarding to Spike I guess she's over him too but I really wonder if they just let that story lie, it would be really strange if they did not address that at all in the comics. I mean, someone important for her, who she thought is dead turns out to be well and (un)alive again.
I guess part of the problem of the unclosureness of Buffy/Spike relationship is that probably Joss planned for them to have their closure in AtS S5. But since SMG couldn't or didn't want to appear in the show it was left as it was. I think had she appeared in AtS, there would have been some sort of "let us both move on with our lives" conversation between Buffy and Spike. Plus of course some crumbs of hope for both bangel and spuffy shippers.
Both Angel and Spike seem to have an equal (equally unimportant) position in Buffy's life right now. Buffy doesn't seem to think about one of them more than the other, she had the dream about them both and she told people who love her tend to die and meant both of them.

And now, go along with me guys, lets say Joss finally listen to the spuffy fans and decides to have Buffy thinking or speaking about Spike in the comic...
What would you like to read? And if he was to make an appearance at the comic, how would you like it to be?

I guess I would have liked to know what were her feelings after Chosen. (I know the comic takes place 1,5 yrs after Chosen but a flashback would be nice). Was she devastated? Did she regret not pulling him out of there? Or was it that she was mainly just proud for him because he saved the world? Did she miss him? How much / how long? Did she think about the "I love you" that she said him and what were her interpretations of it (true feelings finally admitted to both herself and him? just compassion, "gift" for dying man?) and what did she think about Spikes answer? For how long did she mourn him? Or did she at all?

What else would I want? Well I would want them to meet again and to get together only this time I'd like to see it's Buffy doing the begging part and trying to prove her love in every way possible :eviltail:

The above obviously never happening I'd like to see Buffy having really nice from heart to heart talk with Spike, perhaps apologizing for S6, thanking him for what he did in S7 and then them leaving each other, with no hard feelings from either side and with mutual understanding. I'd like to see them as equals, both having their purpose in life, I think they should leave like two warriors, both going to fight their own fight but knowing that life could easily bring them back together and knowing that they'll always watch each other's back. Or something like that I guess.

[Nina]

I don't exactly count on it too and right now it doesn't matter so much to me either because although I follow the comics in a way they do not hold a grip over me in a sense that I just HAVE to know what's happening next.

So, Buffy's team made it clear they don't want anything to do with Angel's team. So is she totally over Angel? She doesn't trust him anymore and doesn't need to be in contact with him anymore? What happened to always & forever?
Regarding to Spike I guess she's over him too but I really wonder if they just let that story lie, it would be really strange if they did not address that at all in the comics. I mean, someone important for her, who she thought is dead turns out to be well and (un)alive again.
I guess part of the problem of the unclosureness of Buffy/Spike relationship is that probably Joss planned for them to have their closure in AtS S5. But since SMG couldn't or didn't want to appear in the show it was left as it was. I think had she appeared in AtS, there would have been some sort of "let us both move on with our lives" conversation between Buffy and Spike. Plus of course some crumbs of hope for both bangel and spuffy shippers.
Both Angel and Spike seem to have an equal (equally unimportant) position in Buffy's life right now. Buffy doesn't seem to think about one of them more than the other, she had the dream about them both and she told people who love her tend to die and meant both of them.


The problem with our information is that it comes from Andrew, who is known for his lies ... and Giles who isn't a big fan of Angel's team. But right now there isn't a good reason to believe that Buffy doesn't know anything about the cold behavior towards Angel and his team.
We can't say if she is totally over Angel or Spike, because all we have is Andrew's word. But she doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about Angel and Spike. And she never tried to contact Angel or give him an idea where she is or what she is actually doing ... all he knows is that she is training slayers somewhere in Europe.

[lara]

Originally posted by Nina
And I think that the writers use Andrew because you never know what he does and doesn't. They can retcon a story with saying that Andrew lied or ignored requests but they can also choose for the option that he was telling the truth and that he did what he was supposed to do. So maybe he told (and ignored Spike's request) or he kept his mouth shut and respected Spike's request. They can decide what he did when they need to pick up this storyline again.

You make a really good point there, and I'll have to agree with you, it makes sense that they would use Andrew for this, 'cause we still haven't gotten to know this character entirely, so we still don't know what would be "in character" or not for him, he could lie or not or whatever, we wouldn't know.


Originally posted by missperoxide
What else would I want? Well I would want them to meet again and to get together only this time I'd like to see it's Buffy doing the begging part and trying to prove her love in every way possible

He,he,he... Now That would be fun, wouldn't it! But I don't know if I'd like to see anyone begging. I just wish they could be together and try to mend all the broken fences, you know, continue what they were doing in S7, and just be in the moment for once, their moment, and try to figure out if they could work, take their chance. 'Cause they never had a real chance, first because she was SO depressed and he was souless, and then, when she was better and he got his soul back, they have an apocalypse to fight. They did what they could to mend the things that went wrong between them with the little time they had, and they got close and in some way they were together, but never TOGETHER as in a real couple.

I would like so much for them to get a chance to BE, with no apocalypse, no potentials, no mix feelings and weird signals, to have the chance to explore their relationship.

Originally posted by missperoxide
The above obviously never happening I'd like to see Buffy having really nice from heart to heart talk with Spike, perhaps apologizing for S6, thanking him for what he did in S7 and then them leaving each other, with no hard feelings from either side and with mutual understanding. I'd like to see them as equals, both having their purpose in life, I think they should leave like two warriors, both going to fight their own fight but knowing that life could easily bring them back together and knowing that they'll always watch each other's back. Or something like that I guess.

Oh, that some scene you're picturing, a bittersweet one, but nice. I agree with you. I would like that too.

I think sometimes that kind of ending is even better than the happy ending, 'cause it gives you this melancolic feeling of possiblity, you know, this "no...ok, but maybe..." feeling, something to long for.

[Dorian's Kitten]

I guess I would have liked to know what were her feelings after Chosen. (I know the comic takes place 1,5 yrs after Chosen but a flashback would be nice). Was she devastated? Did she regret not pulling him out of there? Or was it that she was mainly just proud for him because he saved the world? Did she miss him? How much / how long? Did she think about the "I love you" that she said him and what were her interpretations of it (true feelings finally admitted to both herself and him? just compassion, "gift" for dying man?) and what did she think about Spikes answer? For how long did she mourn him? Or did she at all?

What else would I want? Well I would want them to meet again and to get together only this time I'd like to see it's Buffy doing the begging part and trying to prove her love in every way possible :eviltail:

The above obviously never happening I'd like to see Buffy having really nice from heart to heart talk with Spike, perhaps apologizing for S6, thanking him for what he did in S7 and then them leaving each other, with no hard feelings from either side and with mutual understanding. I'd like to see them as equals, both having their purpose in life, I think they should leave like two warriors, both going to fight their own fight but knowing that life could easily bring them back together and knowing that they'll always watch each other's back. Or something like that I guess.



I would like so much for them to get a chance to BE, with no apocalypse, no potentials, no mix feelings and weird signals, to have the chance to explore their relationship.

Oh, that some scene you're picturing, a bittersweet one, but nice. I agree with you. I would like that too.

I think sometimes that kind of ending is even better than the happy ending, 'cause it gives you this melancolic feeling of possiblity, you know, this "no...ok, but maybe..." feeling, something to long for.

I can see that being nice, but I worry that it has already been done with Angel. Part of the problem all along from both the relationship standpoint and the writing standpoint was that it came after Angel and needed to be different. I don't think that they can have a similar ending. More importantly, I think the relationship deserves something of its own.

I want Buffy to discover him while she is investigating some sort of problem. I imagine her jumping to conclusions and thinking things are his fault, only to discover that they are in fact her fault. Maybe the situation came about because of her stealing to get cash for the big honking mansion of slayerness. I want it to become increasingly clear that Spike's involvement in the whole matter is his trying to clean up her mess (and I want him to be doing a decent job of it).

At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after. :heart:

:p Since that wont happen, I'd like it to be the circumstances that keep them apart and not their decision. Maybe whatever Spike is doing to undo Buffy's goof requires him to stay in another dimension or at least far away and Buffy is really needed somewhere else. Also, I think it would be fun if they have to appear (to the outside world) to be fighting. I want them spouting snarky remarks and such. But I want that one scene where they are alone. Maybe they have to be in a room that Willow covers in some sort of magic veil. But I want Buffy to have to arrange the visit to tell him that she figured it out. That she knows what he is doing and that it's her fault he is stuck doing it. He will, of course, be gracious after a few biting remarks and tell her that she saved him, that everyone makes mistakes and he's got her back on this one.

She'll get all teary eyed and point out that he might have to stay (wherever the problem is) for a really long time and he'll nod and point out that, as a vamp, time is something he has plenty of.

Then she'd kiss him and he'd shake his head and tell her that she doesn't need to do that, that he doesn't need her sympathy snuggles. He'll tell her that he is just doing what is right because he can and that she doesn't have to kiss him just because she is grateful.

And Buffy will finally make us Spuffies proud. She'll ask. "What if it's not because I'm grateful? Can I kiss you because I want to? because I never thought I'd get the chance to again and now...and now I don't know when I..."

And Spike will sweep her into his arms for much smoochies and lovemaking that we will not see since it is a comic. And all too shortly Willow's voice will break through telling the now snuggling couple that it is not safe to keep up the veil much longer and that they have to send Spike home before anyone figures out that they are not enemies.

He leaves with little hope of their being reunited, but with the knowledge that she does most definitely love him.

And we all weep our eyes out, all the while hoping that at some point in the future the writers decide to bring him back for more nooky.:D

[lara]

Originally posted by Dorian's Kitten
I can see that being nice, but I worry that it has already been done with Angel. Part of the problem all along from both the relationship standpoint and the writing standpoint was that it came after Angel and needed to be different. I don't think that they can have a similar ending. More importantly, I think the relationship deserves something of its own.

Yeah, you're right, that was done with Angel and Spike & Buffy should have something different.

Originally posted by Dorian's Kitten
I want Buffy to discover him while she is investigating some sort of problem. I imagine her jumping to conclusions and thinking things are his fault, only to discover that they are in fact her fault. Maybe the situation came about because of her
stealing to get cash for the big honking mansion of slayerness.
I want it to become increasingly clear that Spike's involvement in the whole matter is his trying to clean up her mess (and I want him to be doing a decent job of it).

At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after.

That's a really good idea, it would be great!! Buffy jumping to conclusions is so in character with her. And Spike finally doing it right this time (not like he did in Dead Things). "A fight and a heart to heart" Nice. That's some idea you got there!


Since that wont happen, I'd like it to be the circumstances that keep them apart and not their decision. Maybe whatever Spike is doing to undo Buffy's goof requires him to stay in another dimension or at least far away and Buffy is really needed somewhere else. Also, I think it would be fun if they have to appear (to the outside world) to be fighting.

But I want that one scene where they are alone. She'll get all teary eyed and point out that he might have to stay (wherever the problem is) for a really long time and he'll nod and point out that, as a vamp, time is something he has plenty of.

Then she'd kiss him and he'd shake his head and tell her that she doesn't need to do that, that he doesn't need her sympathy snuggles. He'll tell her that he is just doing what is right because he can and that she doesn't have to kiss him just because she is grateful.

And Buffy will finally make us Spuffies proud. She'll ask. "What if it's not because I'm grateful? Can I kiss you because I want to? because I never thought I'd get the chance to again and now...and now I don't know when I..."

And Spike will sweep her into his arms for much smoochies and lovemaking that we will not see since it is a comic.

He leaves with little hope of their being reunited, but with the knowledge that she does most definitely love him. And we all weep our eyes out, all the while hoping that at some point in the future the writers decide to bring him back for more nooky.

That will lead us again to the bittersweet ending. But it's a really good way to have them reunite and separate all in once, I love your idea! Mostly because what I really want is Spike to know, to be sure that what she feels for him is real. He deserves to know, and not second guess all the time.

[missperoxide]

I can see that being nice, but I worry that it has already been done with Angel. Part of the problem all along from both the relationship standpoint and the writing standpoint was that it came after Angel and needed to be different. I don't think that they can have a similar ending. More importantly, I think the relationship deserves something of its own.

Yeah, you are totally right. I just tried to envisage the way it could be handled by the writers. But you are right - the mutual understanding and leaving for their own fights actually really is Bangel and done and Buffy and Spike definitely do deserve something of their own. What they don't deserve is a story just being there, in the limbo, and nothing happening about it.

:p Since that wont happen, I'd like it to be the circumstances that keep them apart and not their decision. Maybe whatever Spike is doing to undo Buffy's goof requires him to stay in another dimension or at least far away and Buffy is really needed somewhere else. Also, I think it would be fun if they have to appear (to the outside world) to be fighting. I want them spouting snarky remarks and such.

Oh, I so miss Spuffy snarkiness... :cutecry:

But I want that one scene where they are alone. Maybe they have to be in a room that Willow covers in some sort of magic veil. But I want Buffy to have to arrange the visit to tell him that she figured it out. That she knows what he is doing and that it's her fault he is stuck doing it. He will, of course, be gracious after a few biting remarks and tell her that she saved him, that everyone makes mistakes and he's got her back on this one.
She'll get all teary eyed and point out that he might have to stay (wherever the problem is) for a really long time and he'll nod and point out that, as a vamp, time is something he has plenty of.
Then she'd kiss him and he'd shake his head and tell her that she doesn't need to do that, that he doesn't need her sympathy snuggles. He'll tell her that he is just doing what is right because he can and that she doesn't have to kiss him just because she is grateful.
And Buffy will finally make us Spuffies proud. She'll ask. "What if it's not because I'm grateful? Can I kiss you because I want to? because I never thought I'd get the chance to again and now...and now I don't know when I..."
And Spike will sweep her into his arms for much smoochies and lovemaking that we will not see since it is a comic. And all too shortly Willow's voice will break through telling the now snuggling couple that it is not safe to keep up the veil much longer and that they have to send Spike home before anyone figures out that they are not enemies.
He leaves with little hope of their being reunited, but with the knowledge that she does most definitely love him.
And we all weep our eyes out, all the while hoping that at some point in the future the writers decide to bring him back for more nooky.:D
I love this scenario. Someone should really write a fanfic out of this.
I just hope the writers of the comic book address the issue in some way, in any way. They can't just drop the story now, can they?!?!

[ThePoet's<3]

DK!!! WRITE THAT DOWN!!! MUST. HAVE. STORY!!!! :D



"At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."

That is so SPUFFY! :heart:



I agree - I think Buffy and Spike deserve their own story. I like them accidentally running into each other. Shock on Buffy's side and a little guilt/outrage on Spike's side. Then a mutual recognition of having missed each other after all this time.

I will tell you a little something that occurred to me since Buffy's GOGA in the comic book. And I don't want to get into the inner workings of that relationship but the ending got me to thinking about Captains and Co-Captains, etc. Satsu has to leave because she is in love with Buffy. Also, they have this "in-fighting" going on while undergoing battles. I thought that was so unprofessional - of both of them!

During parts of Season 5, a little bit of Season 6, and Season 7 I noticed that although Buffy is definately in charge of the group, Spike makes an awesome 1st Lieutinant - don't you think?

And you would think with having been as intimate physically they were in Season 6 it would have been awkward or some difficutlies in Spike taking commands from Buffy. But there was never the "in-fighting" that went on in S8.

Spike and Buffy have always had the proper understanding of "chain of command" in their "professional" life.

In Season 5 he proved his loyalty to her. In fact - remember when Buffy went catatonic? He slapped her - to try and get her to "snap out of it". Now, granted it may not have been the right thing to do but it took some moxy for him to realize they needed her to be solid enough to lead them. That's a good co-leader response to know when you need to challenge your leader on her sanity! (for the group's sake - of course!)

Season 6 was murky because of the physical relationship - not many battle scenes - even the Big Evil was the Troiken - not much to fight there. However, I remind folks that Spike's chip didn't work when after she was resurrected. He acquiesced to her leadership out of respect for her power. And he backed her up alot in Dawn and Willow's relationship as well as tried to help her best his "unsouled" self could do.

In Season 7 is when we really see him as the proper First Lieutinant. Training the potentials, always having Buffy's back, supporting her when she was turned away by her family and friends, bolstering her up in Chosen and then dying for her.

The "best night of my life" scene is as close to "in-fighting" example I could remember.

Spike and Buffy have always co-existed easily. Even in the beginning he recognized that being in "this Slayer's" good graces was tantamount in his survival.

Even as in love as he is with her he always seem to know where to separate relationship from battle rules.

Do you think it was because he was a vampire, a "male" vampire, or because he and Buffy have an agreeable partnership?

[lara]

Originally posted by ThePoet's<3
I will tell you a little something that occurred to me since Buffy's GOGA in the comic book. And I don't want to get into the inner workings of that relationship but the ending got me to thinking about Captains and Co-Captains, etc. Satsu has to leave because she is in love with Buffy. Also, they have this "in-fighting" going on while undergoing battles. I thought that was so unprofessional - of both of them!

During parts of Season 5, a little bit of Season 6, and Season 7 I noticed that although Buffy is definately in charge of the group, Spike makes an awesome 1st Lieutinant - don't you think?

I totally agree with you! I saw that too, and I definitely thought of Spike in those terms during season 7, you just read my mind!

Originally posted by ThePoet's<3
And you would think with having been as intimate physically they were in Season 6 it would have been awkward or some difficutlies in Spike taking commands from Buffy. But there was never the "in-fighting" that went on in S8.

Spike and Buffy have always had the proper understanding of "chain of command" in their "professional" life.

In Season 7 is when we really see him as the proper First Lieutinant. Training the potentials, always having Buffy's back, supporting her when she was turned away by her family and friends, bolstering her up in Chosen and then dying for her.

Even as in love as he is with her he always seem to know where to separate relationship from battle rules.

Do you think it was because he was a vampire, a "male" vampire, or because he and Buffy have an agreeable partnership?

I think they have an agreeable partnership. Many sides of their personalities make them compatible. There's certain amount of understanding and respect between the two of them that they never felt toward anyone else.

I don't think it has to do with him being a vampire or a "male" vampire, I think it's about the kind of people they are. See, Buffy has been chosen for a mission in this world right, she has to be strong and brave, and that makes her different from many people. At the same time, she's also insecure, 'cause on some level she's never felt that she's good enough, most of the time she thinks people (even her friends) don't really understand her, and that probably makes her feel unloved. Deep, deep down she needs validation.

Spike is the guy that was never good enough, not for Cecily, not for Dru, and for sometime not even for Buffy, but the problem with that is that he feels he's got so much to give. Spike is a giver, he's devoted and caring, he knows to appreciate something that's different, he'll try anything to make the object of his devotion feel good, and is by doing it, is that he feels validated.

So when we put Buffy and Spike together is like the perfect fit, their needs complement, Buffy realises that he knows she's different, that he sees everything she is, and doesn't judge her, in fact he falls in love with her, stating clearly that she's good enough to love. Spike realises that what she needs it's a partner by her side to help her in her fight and of course doesn't have a problem to be the one to do it, 'cause if he manages that, then he'll become usefull, maybe he'll be appreciated.

They have both been through a lot of psycological pain, they both have had their hearts broken and have grown a thicker skin, they've become stronger that what they were due to their past, and that has formed the way the act in the present. And they both know that about the other, Spike saw Buffy's heartache with Angel, Buffy saw his heartache with Dru, and starting from that point there's some level of understanding and even empathy (even if they don't specificaly show it to the other, but it's there) that with the passing years grows into something more complex and deep.

Add to that the fact that they both can hold their ends in a physical battle, you know.

I think they know how tough the other is, and also how weak too. Having that understandind of someone and seing them so clearly makes for respect and admiration, which leads to partnership and later to love. So I think they play general and liutenient so good, because they truly are partners and have complementary personalities.

[Boltmaiden]

Hi guys it's me again, the girl with the white flag, you all were so nice to me the first time around I thought I would come back again:hug:

Anyway I just had to comment on the view that you have of Spike being Buffy's 1st Lieutinant. I had never seen it that way but you all have very good points and it helps me understand your love for Spuffy more. I may not see it the way you do as I have said in other posts but I just wanted to compliment you all on giving great arguments on why your ship is great:2party:

Oh and even I would like to see a Spuffy reunion of sorts, it would be interesting to see what scenario would be done. I actually think both of her relationships with her vampires with a soul have more to tell. Plus seeing both of there reactions to her most recent relationship would be priceless imo.

[vampmogs]

Plus seeing both of there reactions to her most recent relationship would be priceless imo.

I don't think we'll ever get that now that Satsu has left to head up Tokyo. Leaving plenty of room for the Buffy/Xander hook-up we all know is going to happen! :lol:

[Dorian's Kitten]

I don't think we'll ever get that now that Satsu has left to head up Tokyo. Leaving plenty of room for the Buffy/Xander hook-up we all know is going to happen! :lol:

Someone has be listening to KoC a little too much. I think that ship has sailed. If it happened any time in the near future they'd both just look cheap.

Boltmaiden-thanks for the kind words and I'd love to see their reaction as well!!!

Back to the Spuffy Goodness::heart:

Of all the Spuffy related (whether they be between Buffy and Spike or any other characters) conversations that NEVER happened, which would you most want to see? One exception-don't say "the one where they get together". I'm curious if people would mostly want Buffy to apologize or for her to share with Willow or for Giles to talk with Spike. There are sooo many possibilities-if you could have one more chat-what would you want?

[vampmogs]

Someone has be listening to KoC a little too much. I think that ship has sailed. If it happened any time in the near future they'd both just look cheap.

I disagree with that. And King isn't the only one to get the vibe. Even some Spuffies such as Moscow Watcher have said they think it's going to happen. We had the mis-direct in 'The Long Way Home' that Xander was going to kiss Buffy when Amy teases him about it. We have the Buffy/Xander kiss in Buffy's dream in the same episode as well. We also have Xander calling Buffy incredibly sexy in 'A Beautiful Sunset' and admitting in 'Wolves At The Gate' he's had sexy dreams about her. Not to mention their closeness all season, their hip-to-hip practically 24/7. I don’t see why Joss would have a Buffy/Xander dream sequence of them kissing, along with a close up panel of Xander’s face when Amy says “care to give it a whirl” in relation to the ‘kiss of true love’ if it wasn’t supposed to be hinted at?

It's a vibe a lot of people are getting, Bangels, Spuffies and Banders alike, not just King.

And now we have the spoliers that Xander's going to get another hook-up. Since Renee just died and Satsu has just left, I'm guessing Buffy/Xander will probably take some comfort in each other.

Plus I think it’d be really great in coming full circle. Buffy/Xander was actually the first ship *ever* on the show. From when he saw her in the pilot and fell off his skateboard that was the first one we ever got, would be kind of nice if it was the last.

[KingofCretins]

I should add that I was not the first voice in the BW/BF community to find evidence for Buffy/Xander as an eventual plot outcome. The names I think of are Kana and Dollsome as being the first to take that on -- when the 8.01 preview was released, one of them (can't remember which) started a thread about whether or not it would be them in Season 8, unfortunately lost in the BW shutdown.

And, really, when is listening to me bad?

[Dorian's Kitten]

I disagree with that. And King isn't the only one to get the vibe. Even some Spuffies such as Moscow Watcher have said they think it's going to happen. We had the mis-direct in 'The Long Way Home' that Xander was going to kiss Buffy when Amy teases him about it. We have the Buffy/Xander kiss in Buffy's dream in the same episode as well. We also have Xander calling Buffy incredibly sexy in 'A Beautiful Sunset' and admitting in 'Wolves At The Gate' he's had sexy dreams about her. Not to mention their closeness all season, their hip-to-hip practically 24/7. I don’t see why Joss would have a Buffy/Xander dream sequence of them kissing, along with a close up panel of Xander’s face when Amy says “care to give it a whirl” in relation to the ‘kiss of true love’ if it wasn’t supposed to be hinted at?

It's a vibe a lot of people are getting, Bangels, Spuffies and Banders alike, not just King.

And now we have the spoliers that Xander's going to get another hook-up. Since Renee just died and Satsu has just left, I'm guessing Buffy/Xander will probably take some comfort in each other.

Plus I think it’d be really great in coming full circle. Buffy/Xander was actually the first ship *ever* on the show. From when he saw her in the pilot and fell off his skateboard that was the first one we ever got, would be kind of nice if it was the last.

I thought that there was a good chance it was headed that way at the beginning of season eight too. I just think that anything happening too soon after Renee's death would just be...wrong. We see that Xander is very upset, I think that we are supposed to assume that he had fairly strong feelings. I would hate for those feelings to be belittled.
If they did get together right away, I couldn't see good coming of it and given their history I think that if Joss does decide to go that way he'll give them some good.

Maybe next season...but right now would be hard.

And yes, I know that KoC is not the only one who thinks Xander/ Buffy could happen. Just as he knows that I'm only teasing. It's something we do.:hug:

Now however-I'd love for us to get back to Spuffy, since this is the Spuffy thread. I'm going to repeat my question:

Of all the Spuffy related (whether they be between Buffy and Spike or any other characters) conversations that NEVER happened, which would you most want to see? One exception-don't say "the one where they get together". I'm curious if people would mostly want Buffy to apologize or for her to share with Willow or for Giles to talk with Spike. There are sooo many possibilities-if you could have one more chat-what would you want?

[Insun]

sve u svemu dobro je - pobjeda je tu, tri boda... samo velike reprezentacije dobivaju na velikim takmičenjima kad ne odigraju veliku utakmicu. povlacenje nakon pola sata je psiha i ocekivano na vodstvo.

po meni, kako su odigrali:

pletikosa - jako dobar

ćorluka - samozatajan, ali kazu da igra na silu i da je i ovo dobro

r. kovač - odličan

šimunić - odličan

pranjić - biće bolje, ni ovo nije loše

srna - odličan

n. kovač - dobar, solidan

modrić - dobar, ali se osjeti nervoza prve utakmice, vazno je da je zabio penal majstorski

kranjčar - on moze doci do izrazaja kad ekipa ima lopta u posjedu, ovako je djelovao nasukan, ali sigurno ce protiv njemaca biti puno bolji

petric - mogao je zabiti

olić - najbolje njegova utakmica u zadnji par godina u reprezentaciji.

knezevic - siguran
budan - neangazovan
vukojevic - malo igrao za neku ocijenu

bilic - dobro postavio igru, s prvom izmjenom pogodio.

austrijanci - odigrali iznad svojih mogucnosti, iznad mojih ocekivanja. ne mogu bolje. da su zabili ne bi bilo nepravedno. vidjelo se da igraju maksimalon angazovano i da ne mogu nista izgubiti.

sudija - loš!

Treba sad dobi Njemce! Amo NAsi! Hrvatska!!!!

[KingofCretins]

I thought that there was a good chance it was headed that way at the beginning of season eight too. I just think that anything happening too soon after Renee's death would just be...wrong. We see that Xander is very upset, I think that we are supposed to assume that he had fairly strong feelings. I would hate for those feelings to be belittled.
If they did get together right away, I couldn't see good coming of it and given their history I think that if Joss does decide to go that way he'll give them some good.

Maybe next season...but right now would be hard.

And yes, I know that KoC is not the only one who thinks Xander/ Buffy could happen. Just as he knows that I'm only teasing. It's something we do.:hug:

Now however-I'd love for us to get back to Spuffy, since this is the Spuffy thread. I'm going to repeat my question:

Of all the Spuffy related (whether they be between Buffy and Spike or any other characters) conversations that NEVER happened, which would you most want to see? One exception-don't say "the one where they get together". I'm curious if people would mostly want Buffy to apologize or for her to share with Willow or for Giles to talk with Spike. There are sooo many possibilities-if you could have one more chat-what would you want?

The 'Mogs was just adding some color to his perfectly valid answer to a Spike and/or Angel related Season 8 thought Boltmaiden had :)

As for missing conversations... I think Enisy might back me up on this... I'd like to get some of the non-existant scenes from Season 7 that reintegrated Spike into the group that didn't get written amidst the Magical AR Whitewash of 2002. Anything of substance in Xander's home on the subject of Spike's Season 6 relationship(s) while the former was tolerating having him around, for instance. How about something textual to indicate that Willow *ever* found out about it? As she was one of the only characters outside of Buffy, Andrew, and Wood to share any memorable screentime with him in Season 7.

The other set of missing conversations I'd be curious about is how the Scoobies went from really not wanting him around and just dealing with it between "Spiral" and "The Gift" to him being an integral, if somewhat at arm's length, part of their operation leading up to "Bargaining". Or even who it might have been in the construction yard that might have thought to help him seek shelter from the sunrise after "The Gift".

Between Buffy and Spike themselves? I can't really think of any. The one missing conversation I'd care about is one we *know* didn't happen -- the one that was interrupted by the gang showing up in "After Life". In Season 6, conversation between them was dodgy at best, as Spike noted in "Dead Things", and in Season 7, they never shut up, so nothing felt all that absent (barring the Whitewash related stuff). I suppose whatever prompted Buffy to open up and explain about her mom after "Fool For Love". Also, when and in what context did Spike learn about the body swap in "Who Are You?"?

[lara]

Originally posted by Dorian's Kitten

I'd love for us to get back to Spuffy, since this is the Spuffy thread. I'm going to repeat my question:

Of all the Spuffy related (whether they be between Buffy and Spike or any other characters) conversations that NEVER happened, which would you most want to see? One exception-don't say "the one where they get together". I'm curious if people would mostly want Buffy to apologize or for her to share with Willow or for Giles to talk with Spike. There are sooo many possibilities-if you could have one more chat-what would you want?

I'd like to see who helped Spike at the end of "The Gift", if anyone did, 'cause he was a mess, and, I don't know, maybe the scoobies inviting him to Buffy's funeral, and the conversation they might have had after it. The summer Buffy was dead it's a big question mark.

Between Buffy and Spike, I'll agree with KingofCretins: The conversation that did not happen in "After life".

Oh, and well, the conversation that they might have had in the last basement scene in "Chosen", 'cause I believe they talked that night.

[missperoxide]

I will tell you a little something that occurred to me since Buffy's GOGA in the comic book. And I don't want to get into the inner workings of that relationship but the ending got me to thinking about Captains and Co-Captains, etc. Satsu has to leave because she is in love with Buffy. Also, they have this "in-fighting" going on while undergoing battles. I thought that was so unprofessional - of both of them!
During parts of Season 5, a little bit of Season 6, and Season 7 I noticed that although Buffy is definately in charge of the group, Spike makes an awesome 1st Lieutinant - don't you think?
And you would think with having been as intimate physically they were in Season 6 it would have been awkward or some difficutlies in Spike taking commands from Buffy. But there was never the "in-fighting" that went on in S8.
Spike and Buffy have always had the proper understanding of "chain of command" in their "professional" life.
I really agree with you, I've thought the same thing myself. On the surface it seems so unlikely - why should rash and emotional Spike make so good right hand for Buffy? But it's amazing - he does. It's just wonderful how good partners they make. They have had time to really get to know each other professionally, if I may say so. And their fighting styles really have always been matching - already when they fought against each other.
SPIKE: I'd rather fight you anyway.
BUFFY: Mutual.:p

In S7 it was just marvellous to watch how well they worked together. Spike did make a great 1st Liutenant, always watching Buffy's back, always fighting the fight but always acknowledging that Buffy's the leader (and never questioning it, never trying to make decisions for her but always helping where necessary). I definitely agree that with Spike helping Buffy in S8 there would be much less mess and much more opportunities for Buffy to just relax from time to time. I bet Spike would take care of that.
That's why Spike really would make wonderful boyfriend for her - how wouldn't he: they really know each other, the sex is great, they work amazingly well together, they do have seen best and the worst of each other. And that has made their connection stronger. They both really have lived thousand lives and I think that now they do deserve one together.

(Well, good that there's fanfic.)

[ThePoet's<3]

[/I]

I'd like to see who helped Spike at the end of "The Gift", if anyone did, 'cause he was a mess, and, I don't know, maybe the scoobies inviting him to Buffy's funeral, and the conversation they might have had after it. The summer Buffy was dead it's a big question mark.

Between Buffy and Spike, I'll agree with KingofCretins: The conversation that did not happen in "After life".

Oh, and well, the conversation that they might have had in the last basement scene in "Chosen", 'cause I believe they talked that night.

ME TOO lara! I always wanted to know if he went to the funeral! If he was invited or if he just hung out somewhere behind a tree until it was over. Somehow I see him trying to go - trying to stay in the shade - but having to return after dark and crying out his pain.


I suppose whatever prompted Buffy to open up and explain about her mom after "Fool For Love". Also, when and in what context did Spike learn about the body swap in "Who Are You?"?

Two excellent choices!

I would also submit the conversation with Riley about having the chip removed and any of the conversation Buffy and Spike may have had during the process.

[lara]

Originally posted by ThePoet's<3
I would also submit the conversation with Riley about having the chip removed and any of the conversation Buffy and Spike may have had during the process.

Hum, I haven't thought about that one, how did Buffy explained to Spike that she had his chip removed, that would have been nice to watch. Yeah, good one ThePoet's<3 !! That must have been a very important moment for them in season 7, it's such a shame that the writers were trying so hard about keeping the viewers in the dark about their relashionship and didn't give us that scene. Any thoughts of how it might have gone?

[missperoxide]

Hum, I haven't thought about that one, how did Buffy explained to Spike that she had his chip removed, that would have been nice to watch. Yeah, good one ThePoet's<3 !! That must have been a very important moment for them in season 7, it's such a shame that the writers were trying so hard about keeping the viewers in the dark about their relashionship and didn't give us that scene. Any thoughts of how it might have gone?

I'm thinking, maybe like that?


SPIKE (waking up): Ow. What the bloody…?
BUFFY: I’m here, it’s OK. You’re just fine. We need to get going though. Brief stay, remember?
SPIKE: What happened? I recall the light and the soldier boys and then everything went… sort of rickety.
BUFFY: Well…
SPIKE: Well what? What happened?
BUFFY: (raising voice) Well I don’t know! (hastily) I was standing here and the commando guy was there and we were having the discussion and it was perfectly normal and the decisions of sorts had to be made and then the chip and the choice... (fake normal & cheerful) All right, that was it. Let’s get going!
SPIKE: Whoa, slower, maybe? The chip the choice the what?
BUFFY: (sighs) Fair enough. It was up to me to make a choice. Either remove the chip or replace it. So I had it removed. End of story. Okey-dokey. Off we go now.
SPIKE: (softly) Buffy? (short pause) You had the chip removed? But what about the First? What about the… me? I could… you know…
BUFFY: Spike. It’s all right. It’s me, remember? I know you. It was the right thing to do. I trust you, Spike.
(They look at each other couple of seconds, then stand up and slowly start walking away).
SPIKE: Buffy?
BUFFY: Yeah?
SPIKE: You think the tin soldiers will tell the Iowa boy that you had the chip removed, too?
BUFFY: Spike!
SPIKE: Just thinking… would be funny if they did you know. I wonder if he got all worried. (mockingly terrified, with high voice) Oh my god! The Deadly, Amoral and Opportunistic Guy is on the loose! Hide your puppies and your… Christmas!
BUFFY: Spike! You are this far from me calling them again and stuffing the damned thing back to your brain! (musing) Perhaps the newer versions come with various updates, too… Ouch! Stop that! Anyhow let’s get out of here, this place really gives me the creeps. (contemplating) No wonder you were such a lunatic when you came out of here… Oh, wait, you were a lunatic already before. Oh, whatever. Come on now…

:)

And btw - Lara, it's a wonderful avatar you have! :heart:

[Dorian's Kitten]

:roll: Brilliant. I love the line about Christmas and the "Ouch".

So thinking about the missing conversation is actually what led to my latest fic offering. (I know-that was a shameless plug. :p But anyway-go read it and then visit my feedback thread. :D)

So my new question concerns reactions to the recent comic revelations, I'll put it in spoiler wrap in case you haven't read yet, but intend to:
So Buffy has been enjoying Satsu and it sure seems like Spike has been having some fun. (Fred/Illyria? Spider/Maria?) My question: Whose reaction to learning about the other's recent activities do you most want to see? Who would be more jealous? Or would they even be?

[lara]

Originally posted by missperoxide
And btw - Lara, it's a wonderful avatar you have!

Thank you very much, but the credit is not mine, in the "Avatar Requests and Help" thread I asked for an avatar with Spuffy comic images and ciderdrinker came up with this beautiful avatar for me.

Originally posted by missperoxide
SPIKE: Buffy?
BUFFY: Yeah?
SPIKE: You think the tin soldiers will tell the Iowa boy that you had the chip removed, too?
BUFFY: Spike!
SPIKE: Just thinking… would be funny if they did you know. I wonder if he got all worried. (mockingly terrified, with high voice) Oh my god! The Deadly, Amoral and Opportunistic Guy is on the loose! Hide your puppies and your… Christmas!
BUFFY: Spike! You are this far from me calling them again and stuffing the damned thing back to your brain! (musing) Perhaps the newer versions come with various updates, too… Ouch! Stop that! Anyhow let’s get out of here, this place really gives me the creeps. (contemplating) No wonder you were such a lunatic when you came out of here… Oh, wait, you were a lunatic already before. Oh, whatever. Come on now…

Love this part, is so much like them, so very Buffy, and probably what we would have seen if the writers would have showed us that scene.

Originally posted by Dorian's Kitten
So my new question concerns reactions to the recent comic revelations, I'll put it in spoiler wrap in case you haven't read yet, but intend to:
So Buffy has been enjoying Satsu and it sure seems like Spike has been having some fun. (Fred/Illyria? Spider/Maria?) My question: Whose reaction to learning about the other's recent activities do you most want to see? Who would be more jealous? Or would they even be?

Nice question! here's the answer, suppose I should put it in spoiler wrap too, just in case:
I would love to see Spike's reaction to Buffy's relashionship with Satsu!! I can just image him being insecure and saying to Buffy: "Oh bloody hell!! I was your last boyfriend or whatever, I don't remember being that bad that you would prefer sleeping with women now... was I?" and then asking her about the dirty details... That'll be funny. I think he'd definitely be jelous, he'd try to pretend be cool about it, but he'd be jelous, I don't think that he's completely over Buffy yet.

Buffy, on the other hand, I honestly can't predict at this point, I'm not really getting her vibe in the comics.

But since I've learned about Spike & Spider having ahem...fun together, I keep imagining Buffy meeting Spider, and the last wanting to kill Buffy out of jelousy 'cause Spike still loves her, and Buffy saying to Spike: "How come all your ex girlfriends end up trying to kill me?" hum, maybe there's an idea for a fic.

[Enisy]

Speaking of Spider...

What do you think of the developments in Issue 10 of Angel: After the Fall? I haven't gotten around to reading that yet, but apparently there's a confirmation of a sexual (at least) relationship between Spike and Spider.

Which brings me to another question...

What possible future Spike-centric 'ships could you see as long-term threats to Spike/Buffy?

And out of curiosity:

What's your favourite Spike/Buffy fanfiction archive?

What's your favourite Spike/Buffy LiveJournal community?

By the way, everyone should watch Don't Know How To (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEKZ_hY0So) and Lucky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX5epz8dSSc) by Anne (http://www.youtube.com/user/SpuffyProductions), because they're awesome and heartbreaking.

Also, ficrecs:

Just Another Saturday Night in Sunnydale (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1520670/1/) by Poshcat (http://poshcat.livejournal.com/profile)
Buffy and Spike go to a vampire convention. And it is not a date, dammit! Set in S6, just before Hell's Bells. (NC-17)

Kaleidoscope (http://penny-lane-42.livejournal.com/35486.html) by Lirazel (http://penny-lane-42.livejournal.com/profile)
"Can you tell me, is this love that I'm seeing?" One by one, the people in Buffy and Spike's lives try to add up the obvious. (PG-13)

Dance Like You Mean It (http://amerella.livejournal.com/52863.html) by amerella (http://amerella.livejournal.com/profile)
So last night I was putting off cramming for my midterm and trying to write fic instead but I was getting all caught up in the plot and then I remembered I used to be more about stream of consciousness than plottyness, so I sat down and wrote a stream of consciousness Buffy piece and it turned out to be the most depressing thing ever, but I sort of like it that way. So read it! If you feel like it. (PG-13)

Plus any Spike/Buffy Morgana (http://darklingdawns.livejournal.com/profile)'s ever written, especially her smut ("Bad Medicine" and "Evil Enough").

[ThePoet's<3]

Speaking of Spider...

What do you think of the developments in Issue 10 of Angel: After the Fall? I haven't gotten around to reading that yet, but apparently there's a confirmation of a sexual (at least) relationship between Spike and Spider.

First of all - thank goodness Spike and Wesley had their little conversation about "that"!! WHEW! Glad to have that cleared up! Because I just couldn't see Spike and Illyria... *shudders*I think Spike will be more excited about Buffy's experimentation with Satsu!! And I don't think he will be offended - he will probably ask if she could invite Satsu over and he could "watch" and/or "participate"! :lol:

Which brings me to another question...
What possible future Spike-centric 'ships could you see as long-term threats to Spike/Buffy?

A strong female character who could outshadow Buffy. I'm still routing for Beck if Spuffy doesn't work out.

And out of curiosity:

What's your favourite Spike/Buffy fanfiction archive?

I don't really have a favorite archive - just favorite fanfics.

What's your favourite Spike/Buffy LiveJournal community?

I don't belong to a LiveJournal community.

By the way, everyone should watch Don't Know How To (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEKZ_hY0So) and Lucky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX5epz8dSSc) by Anne (http://www.youtube.com/user/SpuffyProductions), because they're awesome and heartbreaking.

Oh they are WONDERFUL! I subscribed to SpuffyProductions after I saw the first Vid Anne made!! She's done some really great work!!

Also, ficrecs:

Just Another Saturday Night in Sunnydale (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1520670/1/) by Poshcat (http://poshcat.livejournal.com/profile)
Buffy and Spike go to a vampire convention. And it is not a date, dammit! Set in S6, just before Hell's Bells. (NC-17)

Kaleidoscope (http://penny-lane-42.livejournal.com/35486.html) by Lirazel (http://penny-lane-42.livejournal.com/profil