8.05 The Chain [Archive]

Wolfie Gilmore

26-07-07, 08:25 PM

Jenni Lou

26-07-07, 09:05 PM

Well, it's actually my least fave issue so far. But I blame that on the general absence of major characters. After such a long wait I miss them. :/ Not that all was lost with the issue. I also found the infomercial silly and fun. My fave part was when the decoy was debating whether she was sent down because she was strong enough to handle it or because she weak and therefore expendable.

Wolfie Gilmore

26-07-07, 09:17 PM

I also found the infomercial silly and fun.

My current take on that is that it's just a fake advert (coming right after another ad in the comic, as it does. Breaking the fourth wall - though in comics, perhaps that's the third wall? How many walls does a comic have...?

Now my brain hurts. Having it as a TV ad since this isn't actually TV is a little confusing.

Jenni Lou

26-07-07, 09:47 PM

My current take on that is that it's just a fake advert (coming right after another ad in the comic, as it does. Breaking the fourth wall - though in comics, perhaps that's the third wall? How many walls does a comic have...?

Now my brain hurts. Having it as a TV ad since this isn't actually TV is a little confusing.

I actually took it as if it were an educational video made as a informercial for the new slayer recruits. So it's only the slayer "cells" that see them; it wasn't on actual tv or anything. I didn't see it as a third/fourth wall break.

Just goes to show how much subjectivity there can be in comics...

Wolfie Gilmore

26-07-07, 10:27 PM

I actually took it as if it were an educational video made as a informercial for the new slayer recruits.

That was what I assumed at first...then I thought it might be for our benefit...but I'm not sure really. Need to read it again. :)

Just goes to show how much subjectivity there can be in comics...

Yes - it's definitely a medium that requires the reader to do "work" to come up with an interpretation...it's less "complete" than TV...not that tv isn't open to interpretation of course.

KingofCretins

26-07-07, 10:30 PM

I got a copy so I've read it, and overall I like it. It was very sad, of course, to see this young woman stand and then fall and never hear her name. The very idea of namelessness that she embraced seems so tragically similar to the mass delusion of Project Mayhem ("Fight Club").

I think the narrow usage of Giles, Andrew, Rona, and Vi was appropriate, since this had a very "Below Decks" feel to it. Can I be a Vi/Andrew shipper now?

Loved the insight into Slayer recruitment and training.

Wolfie Gilmore

26-07-07, 10:37 PM

I think the narrow usage of Giles, Andrew, Rona, and Vi was appropriate, since this had a very "Below Decks" feel to it.

Yeah, I liked that. Reminds me of an (albeit awful) episode of Babylon 5 where you see the main characters through the filter of a couple of randoms.

Can I be a Vi/Andrew shipper now?

Only if it's unrequited love on her part. His big gay heart cannot return her affection. And it's been a bloody long time since I thought about that Evan Dando song...

Loved the insight into Slayer recruitment and training.

I did feel like I wanted to see more...how she was approached etc...but in a way the tangental approach worked. As the girl says "you've probably heard this. It's pretty standard stuff."....we've seen Buffy be approached by her watcher, we know the drill.

I do wonder whether those women were watchers, whether they're using the watcher system...rather hope they're not. I like the idea of a properly new world order.

KingofCretins

26-07-07, 10:46 PM

My interpretation (which I've used at least tangentially in fic) is that the Slayer teams are set up as something like coops or dormitories. Or sororities, if you'd rather, where the community service requirements are more substantial in general than at others :) As such, I've figured each team has a nominal authority figure, maybe a recycled Watcher or other Scooby, and probably has a point of contact at the BHC, but that other than that, the girls run their own lives.

Clearly Rona had at least some significance wherever the Fallen Slayer was recruited, since she's the one that made the pitch to her.

On a dirty-minded note, I thought it was funny that Rona thought she would have to *enhance* her bust to be as big as Buffy/SMG. Heh.

The "Below Decks" thing is a cool device. There is a "Without A Trace" episode that is told from the point of view of a missing child's parents.

I'm still not convinced of Andrew's unwavering homosexuality, but that would again be its own thread. He is more or less asexual to me, and seems to be stimulated only by that which appeals to his narrative senses (see his equal lust for Buffy, Spike, Anya, and Xander in "Storyteller", but complete ambivalence to Willow and Kennedy).

We do need more Vi, though. The brief appearance only reminded me of why she was the best Potential.

Jenni Lou

27-07-07, 12:06 AM

I'm still not convinced of Andrew's unwavering homosexuality, but that would again be its own thread. He is more or less asexual to me, and seems to be stimulated only by that which appeals to his narrative senses (see his equal lust for Buffy, Spike, Anya, and Xander in "Storyteller", but complete ambivalence to Willow and Kennedy).

I like your thinking on that. He definitely straddles a line in sexuality, albeit not a direct line. He could go either way but really goes neither. I suppose only time will tell and that's only if a love interest is formally introduced. In any case, I just adore his character and always liked an Andrew/Anya pairing; their scenes together were just too cute and fun! :xd

bishopcruz

27-07-07, 01:45 AM

Can't talk too much as I'm out of town for a wedding. Finding this issue in this tiny little comic shop in New Hampshire made my day. I wasn't expecting it out early. I have to say on initial reading, while it was good, I was kinda hoping for a little more. It went pretty much as predicted, and I felt that there may have been too much story for a one shot. I think it would have been better as a slightly bigger TPB, but I guess the realities didn't allow for that.

The art was great though. I like Lee much better than Jeanty.

Dorian's Kitten

27-07-07, 03:04 AM

Yeah- weird early arrival. What was that about?
Anyway-I too had mixed feelings. It was good-definitely hit me in a big emotional way-but I really want to see our main characters. I am really only struggling to deal with the change of format in order to follow the progression of the story. Thus any issue that doesn't progress the story is bound to be a bit of a disappointment to me.
That said, I liked the infomercial.
Giles looked specifically unGiles-like in the issue. Like suddenly he is kinda giant. I prefer the art of him in earlier issues.

Jenni Lou

27-07-07, 03:40 AM

Giles looked specifically unGiles-like in the issue. Like suddenly he is kinda giant. I prefer the art of him in earlier issues.

Yeah. I did a double take on the frames with him in it because it didn't quite look like him and he did appear especially large. Although I'm sure that was an aesthetic choice on part of the artist who wanted to make Giles look commanding.

vampmogs

27-07-07, 04:41 AM

My first reaction, on zero reflection...this is my fave issue so far. Reminiscent of a Doctor-lite Who ep, it got to the heart of the Buffyverse with hardly any "screen" time (panel time?) for any of the major players. Just a wee cameo from Giles, and even then his speech was obscured, plus Andrew (and Willow?)'s informertial (which I LOVED).

I think the informertial was between Vi and Andrew, well that is what I am assuming. I found it a little odd Joss didn't bother to name both Rona and Vi, especially after all the talk about making her Violet instead of Vi because it looked like roman numerals in the comics. I didn't think either were drawn particularly well, at least Giles was semi recongisable. But perhaps this was to fit in with the story, about the importance of names?

The issue of "is it fair/a good idea to slayerize all those girls without asking" is one that came up a lot in discussions post-chosen (and in the Ats ep Damage) and I'm glad they dealt with it head-on here. Perhaps inevitably, the narrative's conclusion was...yes. Or at least, if it wasn't fair, it was A Good Idea, or valuable in some way.

It was interesting, I've only read my friends copy as I am still waiting for mine to arrive in the mail but I definitily need to read over it again. I am still finding it a little unclear, I had a hard time reading through this one. :s

I found this tale of an unknown soldier touching, and the new characters came to life eevn if you don't have much time to get to know them. The banter between the school kids was v funny, and I liked the intercutting which, in comics, doesn't come off as flashbacks exactly - more giving an idea of the "chain" of our life, in which all the moments are connected. We may be living one moment, but we are informed by all the other moments and choices we've made in the past.

It was very Lost :)

The idea that "there is no truth", except the truth we create and experience was a nice angle: being the slayer feels true, and feeling is at the heart of being a slayer, as well as acting. You feel part of something, you feel worht something, you feel connected to people as you help them. It's like Buffy's journey in season 5...slaying is a gift you give to others, from the heart. As well as all the stakes through others' hearts, obviously.

And like Buffy, this slayer lay down her own life for her mission and her duties. I felt so sorry for her as the demon held up her body to his army. He held her like a trophy, a peice of meat and as he shouts that he has killed Buffy Summers it made me realise at the same time how awful it would be if Buffy's life was taken like this- if her body had been parraded around for all to see. It irked me a lot, and I guess that was Joss' intention.

The Andrew informertial (I'm trying to work out how that fits in...how real it is...did Andrew really show it on some local cable network? Or just a private project?) gives an ironic spin on the idea of being a slayer. It's a disease, an affliction (a curse, perhaps...which now makes me think of periods, and ties into the slayer-as-metaphor-for-female-adolescent).

I agree with those who believe it was shown to the recruits of new slayers or perhaps it was on cable TV. Since they never mention vampires or slayers it was rather ambigious but said enough to draw these girls in. I know if I had watched it I would think it was a little odd but would never give it to much thought. :)

I'm going to have to think about this more...is the slayer in this a victim? A hero? How free was she to choose her destiny? Did the scoobs have the right to put her in that position?

Can she be both? A victim and a hero? I'm not sure but I really can't decide either. A part of me thinks she can, she is a victim of her own herosim, her own destiny.

- The fairy laying its eggs in "Buffy"'s ears...random. But somehow charming.

I wasn't a fan of the fairy, I mean what was the point? Am I missing something here?

- Loved the panel linking the faux Buffy's slayerisation to all the other slayers in the line.

That was great :) And did anyone notice that the spanish slayer who was on the Hellmouth before the Mayor colonised Sunnydale was one of the slayers in the chain? The story is written by Joss in Tales of The Slayers and it is nice to see he is connecting canon from the comics and the show together.

Well, it's actually my least fave issue so far. But I blame that on the general absence of major characters. After such a long wait I miss them. :/ Not that all was lost with the issue. I also found the infomercial silly and fun. My fave part was when the decoy was debating whether she was sent down because she was strong enough to handle it or because she weak and therefore expendable.

I agree. I knew I wouldn't like it as much without our main characters because they are who I'm more interested in right now. I also found the art not as good as Jeanty's. This issue was very irksome, there was something off about it and slightly chilling. I really don't know what to make of it.

I actually took it as if it were an educational video made as a informercial for the new slayer recruits. So it's only the slayer "cells" that see them; it wasn't on actual tv or anything. I didn't see it as a third/fourth wall break.

I agree :)

Yeah- weird early arrival. What was that about?
Anyway-I too had mixed feelings. It was good-definitely hit me in a big emotional way-but I really want to see our main characters. I am really only struggling to deal with the change of format in order to follow the progression of the story. Thus any issue that doesn't progress the story is bound to be a bit of a disappointment to me.
That said, I liked the infomercial.
Giles looked specifically unGiles-like in the issue. Like suddenly he is kinda giant. I prefer the art of him in earlier issues.

Yeah I wasn't a fan of how Giles was drawn. I much prefer him in The Long Way Home. He looked like our Giles in that arc, in this standalone he didn't look like Giles.

Wolfie Gilmore

27-07-07, 12:32 PM

I think the informertial was between Vi and Andrew, well that is what I am assuming.

It was the stuff (letters? Numbers?) at the bottom of the “screens” that made me wonder…looks like it’s actually airing on a cable network. Which I’m assuming they wouldn’t…would they? Which made me go to the fourth wall place :) Still not sure though. Hmm…I scratch my chin and say hmmm once more.

I agree with those who believe it was shown to the recruits of new slayers or perhaps it was on cable TV. Since they never mention vampires or slayers it was rather ambigious but said enough to draw these girls in. I know if I had watched it I would think it was a little odd but would never give it to much thought. :)

Right…yeah, I can just about imagine this happening…Andrew begging to make the informertial and Buffy going ok whatever, just shut up about it…and you have to come up with the budget. And there are definitely weirder adverts!

I found it a little odd Joss didn't bother to name both Rona and Vi, especially after all the talk about making her Violet instead of Vi because it looked like roman numerals in the comics. I didn't think either were drawn particularly well, at least Giles was semi recongisable. But perhaps this was to fit in with the story, about the importance of names?

Oops, I thought it was Willow! But unlikely she’d be playing Andrew’s glamorous assistant so…Vi makes more sense. I think they are going for the anon approach throughout, yes, paralleling the slayer’s namelessness. Giles isn’t Giles here: he’s a celeb, he’s a Name without having a name. He represents something rather than appearing as a thinking, feeling character. Being famous takes away your self to a degree, because you belong to other people. While this girl being Buffy is only “famous” underground, and not for being herself. She dies knowing who she is when even the people who “love” her (the fairy) think she’s Buffy. Buffy never had a secret identity really (as Dawn complains in season 5, she doesn’t wear a mask to protect her loved ones ;)) but this girl does. Secret and famous at once.

It was very Lost :)

And hey, it was just a little bit confusing so…yeah!

Can she be both? A victim and a hero? I'm not sure but I really can't decide either. A part of me thinks she can, she is a victim of her own herosim, her own destiny.

I find it uncomfortable, but interesting. I like the cut to where the girl is talking about fascism…a jokey exaggeration of my fear that Buffy etc didn’t have the right to do something to these girls, effectively by force (especially in the cases of the girls being knocked off their feet by the power), without their consent. Though it reminds me of Willow’s warning to buffy that she can’t “jokey rhyme” her way out of a moral quandary.

I wasn't a fan of the fairy, I mean what was the point? Am I missing something here?

I just liked the bit about laying her eggs in “Buffy”’s ear. It was one of those throwaway fun things. No point, just a silly sidekick.

That was great :) And did anyone notice that the spanish slayer who was on the Hellmouth before the Mayor colonised Sunnydale was one of the slayers in the chain? The story is written by Joss in Tales of The Slayers and it is nice to see he is connecting canon from the comics and the show together.

Nice to link to Tales of the Slayers, which is one of the better comics, too. Loved the Jane Austeny slayer too…I think she was in the chain as well.

Oh, and I love the Jo Chen cover. Perfect summing up of the issue.

Phoenix

27-07-07, 01:32 PM

Just got this today :)
First time i read it, it confused the crap out of me. So i read it again, and it was still confusing. So i came on here and read through some posts, and now i get it haha

Its a fairly good issue, though not one of my favourites. Although i do like how they ventured away from Buffy and the main characters, and had a little story of its own :) The end was a bit sad though.

Next issue is Faith :D omgoshh yay ^_^

vampmogs

27-07-07, 04:52 PM

It was the stuff (letters? Numbers?) at the bottom of the “screens” that made me wonder…looks like it’s actually airing on a cable network. Which I’m assuming they wouldn’t…would they? Which made me go to the fourth wall place :) Still not sure though. Hmm…I scratch my chin and say hmmm once more.

Hmm well it could be a forth wall place, to some extent they do this in OMWF with the characters on occasion facing us as the viewers and speaking directly to us. However, I get the impression it was supposed to be aired on TV as a way to reach newly turned slayers they didn't find.

Right…yeah, I can just about imagine this happening…Andrew begging to make the informertial and Buffy going ok whatever, just shut up about it…and you have to come up with the budget. And there are definitely weirder adverts!

I could image that to, and yeah there most certainly are. I would see this and think to myself "that is strange" but by the next advertisement it wouldn't enter my head again. I don't think it would raise too many suspicions.

Oops, I thought it was Willow! But unlikely she’d be playing Andrew’s glamorous assistant so…Vi makes more sense. I think they are going for the anon approach throughout, yes, paralleling the slayer’s namelessness. Giles isn’t Giles here: he’s a celeb, he’s a Name without having a name. He represents something rather than appearing as a thinking, feeling character. Being famous takes away your self to a degree, because you belong to other people. While this girl being Buffy is only “famous” underground, and not for being herself. She dies knowing who she is when even the people who “love” her (the fairy) think she’s Buffy. Buffy never had a secret identity really (as Dawn complains in season 5, she doesn’t wear a mask to protect her loved ones ;)) but this girl does. Secret and famous at once.

She most certainly wasn't very reconginsable, I must say I like Jeanty's art better. I basically came to this assumption because it was stated she was supposed to be in this Issue as well as Rona.

I agree about what you have said with Giles. He looks very slick and even cold- he doesn't have any quirks like we've seen him drawn other times. He isn't supposed to be a character here, just a symbol of the change and what this girl hs to face.

I find it uncomfortable, but interesting. I like the cut to where the girl is talking about fascism…a jokey exaggeration of my fear that Buffy etc didn’t have the right to do something to these girls, effectively by force (especially in the cases of the girls being knocked off their feet by the power), without their consent. Though it reminds me of Willow’s warning to buffy that she can’t “jokey rhyme” her way out of a moral quandary.

I'm not certain Buffy did the wrong thing. As far as we know she has never made any of the newly turned slayers perform their duties if they don't want to. It was a time or ergency and she really couldn't do much else, but there most certainly will be negetive aspects. I think it is one of those things were basically if we think hard enough there are always going to be negetives but IMO the positives far out weight the negetives. :)

I just liked the bit about laying her eggs in “Buffy”’s ear. It was one of those throwaway fun things. No point, just a silly sidekick.

I didn't get this? :s

Nice to link to Tales of the Slayers, which is one of the better comics, too. Loved the Jane Austeny slayer too…I think she was in the chain as well.

Yup I think there was two of the slayers we have seen.

Oh, and I love the Jo Chen cover. Perfect summing up of the issue.

I think it is the best cover so far, it is amazing and even more amazing after you've read the issue.

This issue was incredibly sad and creepy- it left me feeling very uneasy. I suspect that's what Joss hoped to achieve. Seeing the demon hold her body up like a trophy made me extremely uncomfortable. :(

KingofCretins

27-07-07, 05:25 PM

Jenni Lou

27-07-07, 06:47 PM

I concur; I also found Vi quite recognizable.

This issue was incredibly sad and creepy- it left me feeling very uneasy. I suspect that's what Joss hoped to achieve.

Yes. Yes, me too. Perhaps that was the success of it, as well. It may be one of those things that leaves a bitter taste in your mouth but you end up liking the taste anyway. I suspect I may com to like this issue more a bit down the road after I gain some distance from it and the story progresses.

Wolfie Gilmore

27-07-07, 06:55 PM

Yes. Yes, me too. Perhaps that was the success of it, as well. It may be one of those things that leaves a bitter taste in your mouth but you end up liking the taste anyway. I suspect I may com to like this issue more a bit down the road after I gain some distance from it and the story progresses.

Like those bitter strawberry lace sweeties. :D

Now I've had that story, though, I am eager to hear more from the Scoobies.

vampmogs

28-07-07, 06:20 AM

I thought Vi was very recognizable. I could very easily see Tom Lenk and Felicia Day acting that out.

I am kind of curious where this story fits into the chronology -- was this Slayer killed after the events of "The Long Way Home", or was Buffy, as I had originally thought, referring to her death in Issue #1? It was awesome to see the fairies and slug creatures rallying to her, even if she got killed, and seeing Alpha Team and others coming down their lines to deliver painful death to Yamanh and his buddies was a little gratifying.

It is possible that it was running throughout The Long Way Home? I'm not sure Buffy would be so flippant about her death, my feeling is that all she knew was that this slayer had just gone underground on an assignment-perhaps she died sometime through The Long Way Home and Buffy is yet to hear about it?

I too was extremely pleased to see Alpha Team and the others come down to avenge her death. Although, since that was Alpha team I guess that puts a serious flaw in my original thoughts that perhaps this was all going down linear to The Long Way Home. I'd like to think she was killed after The Long Way Home so Buffy wasn't reffering to her death in such a flippant emotionless way.

I concur; I also found Vi quite recognizable.

Really? Sometimes I wished that they had mentioned Rona and Vi (Violet) by name but I guess it fits in with the whole importance of names. I didn't find Rona particularly recongisable other than her skin colour I am afraid. I just wish Lee had done more with their faces, like Jeanty does. With Jeanty I can see little glimpses of the characters in their faces, but in this Issue I could not.

Yes. Yes, me too. Perhaps that was the success of it, as well. It may be one of those things that leaves a bitter taste in your mouth but you end up liking the taste anyway. I suspect I may com to like this issue more a bit down the road after I gain some distance from it and the story progresses.

I agree :) Joss didn't come up with this Issue to put a smile on our faces, it was supposed to be a bitter sweet ending, an ending that shocked, sadened and even disturbed people. He suceeded in all these.

Now I've had that story, though, I am eager to hear more from the Scoobies.

As am I. One thing I didn't like about this story was that there was no Buffy. In every episode of the show Buffy has been in it, it felt a little odd not have her at all in this one. Even if she had been doing an advertisment or something I would have been happy- I just didn't like not having her in it.

Jenni Lou

28-07-07, 06:31 AM

Really? Sometimes I wished that they had mentioned Rona and Vi (Violet) by name but I guess it fits in with the whole importance of names. I didn't find Rona particularly recongisable other than her skin colour I am afraid. I just wish Lee had done more with their faces, like Jeanty does. With Jeanty I can see little glimpses of the characters in their faces, but in this Issue I could not.

I was just saying to Dan that I found Vi more recognizable than I did Giles. ANd that's scary. :s

I haven't really compared the art too much. I'm not a comic book reader; my fiance is. :p So I am not well trained in that arena. Although, there are little differences here and there I can tell.

Valyssia

28-07-07, 10:43 AM

I got my issue today...both covers. I'm not so much for the dissecting it...might be in the wrong place actually. ;) I'm probably in the camp with the folks that got it...not sure. Seems to be quite a few that didn't like it...or wanted more scooby involvement. I thought it was a very touching story...didn't need the grounding to the rest of the series that it got. I could've cared less as I read it, who was supposed to be who.

I didn't take what the real Buffy said at the beginning as trite at all. I read that somewhere here. It came off more reflective...contemplative... I guess there's a lot you miss in the realm of comics because you have no tone of voice to set intent of the statement.

What I came away with was an overwhelming sense that this child was disposable. No real ties to hold her back from making the sacrifice she made. She was the right body type and a close enough physical match so they marshaled her off to most likely, die.

And she accepted the role willingly...being a link in the chain...a liason between peoples... Knowing that it was unlikely she'd ever see the sun again. It was disturbing. Period.

Valyssia

tangent

28-07-07, 06:59 PM

Okay i got my copy today so I am now safe to wander on in here, woohoo.

Anyhoo, loved this issue. It was a little confusing at first with the 'flashback' type panels appearing quite randomly throughout but after a seond read they really do work well. To me it makes it seem a bit more t.v like for some reason.

I loved the infomercial - has to be andrew's idea (the pipe definitely is) and that is definitely Vi. I didn't think Rona was as recognizable and actually thought it might be Olivia at first, specially as she seem to be doing a lot of the organizational stuff.

The overall 'message' though of how the little people can make a difference, how it's not all about the chosen one anymore but the countless others who will make sacrifices you never hear about. About people working together to make a difference and that's pretty powerful stuff.

vampmogs

29-07-07, 10:33 AM

I was just saying to Dan that I found Vi more recognizable than I did Giles. ANd that's scary. :s

I haven't really compared the art too much. I'm not a comic book reader; my fiance is. :p So I am not well trained in that arena. Although, there are little differences here and there I can tell.

Niether am I :) These are the first times I've actually gotten into comics, I'm just like you who can see the little differences here and there. No doubt both artists are talented, I just like the way Jeanty draws better and the world he and Joss created- Lee's wasn't bad just not as good IMO.

Phoenix

29-07-07, 10:55 AM

I just read it again, and noticed Giles looking different compared to the other issues for the first time :P its not bad, but i like the other version of him better :)

Veverka

30-07-07, 09:56 AM

Was it just me or were other people not happy it came out early??? lol! I had the date in my diary and was all set to get it later this week. I think I got one of the last copies in my store, since I had no time til today...!! But the next one must come on the right day?!

Next issue is Faith :D omgoshh yay ^_^

Pretty much my feeling! Hope this means we see Buffy as well though, and not only Giles and Faith. I mean, it could be that we don't see the core scoobs at all, since Faith is supposed to be in the States and the others are all at the castle.

This issue was incredibly sad and creepy- it left me feeling very uneasy. I suspect that's what Joss hoped to achieve. Seeing the demon hold her body up like a trophy made me extremely uncomfortable. :(

Right from the start of the issue, I was kinda unnerved. But yeah, I guess that's what Joss wants, the juxtaposition between great joy- I mean we got her monologue and she got the slayer thing, and I think loved and hated it, and great pain.

I thought Vi was very recognizable. I could very easily see Tom Lenk and Felicia Day acting that out.

Oh, me too! That was hilarious, and a great little 'out', a five second infomercial, the very genre of which is trapped in some kind of 'insane/weird/funny/complete absence of reality' space, and that fact it was Vi and Andrew... that kicked ass!

I didn't take what the real Buffy said at the beginning as trite at all. I read that somewhere here. It came off more reflective...contemplative... I guess there's a lot you miss in the realm of comics because you have no tone of voice to set intent of the statement.

What I came away with was an overwhelming sense that this child was disposable. No real ties to hold her back from making the sacrifice she made. She was the right body type and a close enough physical match so they marshaled her off to most likely, die.

And she accepted the role willingly...being a link in the chain...a liason between peoples... Knowing that it was unlikely she'd ever see the sun again. It was disturbing. Period.
Valyssia

Initially, yeah, I took Buffy as being trite, but looking back, maybe not. The tone is kinda hard to read! But then again, assuming there was a level of 'trite'- does that make it a bad thing? A slayer who has died twice, knows that what she did is at the end of the day, going to kill many, many girls, maybe it's okay for her to be detached to a degree. Goodness knows Buffy's detachment/walking in the world struggle was/is key in the entire series, so I think if anyone has the right to be flip, it's her.

As for the complacency with which this girl was chosen... well, it's like the whole slayer thing. Why Kendra? Buffy? Faith? Vi? Kennedy? etc... they all became linked somehow, and yeah, this girl was right for this job. Not fair, but just... the way it was.

Overall, it gets points. But looking forward to Faith action next month? Oh yeah!

KingofCretins

30-07-07, 10:14 AM

vampmogs

30-07-07, 10:40 AM

All the narration, other than dialogue across scene changes, is by the decoy Slayer. "I never even met her" is what "Buffy" is thinking about not having ever met the real Buffy.

I don't think she was sent out there to die, as such. I have no real doubt that it will eat Alpha Team and the others that went down there up that they were too late to save her. If Buffy knows or learned of this, I'm sure she'd probably be pretty devestated as well.

I agree. Nothing so far this season has indicated that Buffy has become heartless or doesn't value the other slayers and their lives. Buffy tells Satsu to get out even if she has to stay behind with Willow in Issue #4. If she viewed the other slayers as disposal I couldn't see worrying about Satsu's well-being. The Alpha team also looks like a close knit bunch and I'm sure even if they hadn't met this Buffy decoy, they will still feel for her. :)

Project

31-07-07, 03:20 AM

I just finished this comic, and it is definitely my favorite so far. I cried at the end. The decoy Buffy's monologue at the end is picture perfect, it's so Joss, and it makes an incredibly poignant and important point. This girl went through an incredible journey, suffered a lot, made a difference, and was virtually anonymous throughout. This is true for the vast majority of people who really do good in the world and it's so beautiful and somewhat sad. Joss is amazing!!!!

I also feel like this girl's struggle could be a metaphor for the internal struggles that we all go through. No one really sees the battles we wage against the darkness inside. In the end, the most important thing is that you know who you are and you are true to that and the ideals that you hold. So what if you're not recognized for your bravery? You know what you've done and you are a better person for it. And the idea that a famous name is only powerful because it influences the actions of others who remain anonymous? Also deep and awesome.

My only beef with this is the whole thing with the truck. Like seriously, what are the odds that right after she became a slayer, a semi would come barreling through? And I too was confused by the infomercial. I would be inclined to think that it was just a joke except for she referred to it which makes me think that it actually aired.

Overall, great change in tone after the triumphant Buffy/Willow/Xander arc that almost left me wishing for the less glamourous Sunnydale High days.

vampmogs

31-07-07, 02:10 PM

Overall, great change in tone after the triumphant Buffy/Willow/Xander arc that almost left me wishing for the less glamourous Sunnydale High days.

:err: You didn't like the Scooby triumph! I was glad to see that for once in so long they all got it together and showed how good friends they were. But I don't think it will last.. we will get darker :D

ThePoet's<3

01-08-07, 04:36 AM

I've read it a couple more times and the same parts still intrigue me.

I missed the other Scoobies but I thought as a stand-alone it was perfect. It seems it was meant to be a story about the Slayers in general. Her story could have been any of the stories of the other Slayers. Going from 2 to 2000 it was more of a story of the one amongst the many. We may not every know all their names but they all work for THE NAME - BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER.

I agree Vampmogs - (the universe tilts again... ;) :D) the absence of names was probably intentional. We seem to focus on the ones we know and forget there are so many more who fall in the battle of whose names we will never know.

For some reason - maybe because of the "Uncle Sam Poster" cover (Jeanty) it reminded me so much of the military. Many soldiers - names unknown (unknown soldier) who fall in the name of some country, cause or leader they fight for.

Still intriquing me are the remarks by the Slug Leader about the Slayer passing the test but not the last one who fell - "who gave us your language" - which I am guessing is English. HE was referenced twice so we know it was a male who fell and his bones were around the Slug Leaders neck. They looked human as far as I could tell from the artwork.

The "there is no truth" is ominous to me... I'm thinking this will come up again in the "military" theme being adopted by this Season. Buffy's Truth vs. the Military's Truth?? Who's truth is right? There is no truth?

The Andrew Infomercial just struck me as a Joss funnyism in the middle of a dark episode. I think almost poking fun at there being no way people really find out about being a Slayer - it's not like you call 1-800-You-Slay.

And I'm still a little unclear on who was speaking in the beginning of the comic... "The funny thing about all this...I never even met her." Is that Buffy speaking about the undercover Slayer? Or the Slayer saying she had never even met Buffy?

If it's the latter... Wow. Here are people - we can't know them all - and Buffy can't know them all either. But they lay their lives on the line for "THE NAME" - for someone they never even meet.

Project

01-08-07, 05:43 AM

:err: You didn't like the Scooby triumph! I was glad to see that for once in so long they all got it together and showed how good friends they were. But I don't think it will last.. we will get darker :D

I guess I just think that stories are more compelling when they're dark and sad and rather bittersweet. Not that there's no room for triumphant stories with happy endings (who doesn't love Independence Day), but I don't know, I kind of forget about those after they're over. Like today I'm still thinking about 8.05 like wow, that was awesome; it really packs more of an emotional punch when it's dark and sad, and I think that it's ultimately more true to life.

Jenni Lou

01-08-07, 06:21 AM

And I'm still a little unclear on who was speaking in the beginning of the comic... "The funny thing about all this...I never even met her." Is that Buffy speaking about the undercover Slayer? Or the Slayer saying she had never even met Buffy?

If it's the latter... Wow. Here are people - we can't know them all - and Buffy can't know them all either. But they lay their lives on the line for "THE NAME" - for someone they never even meet.

I think it's definitely the latter. And I think it's for the reason you lay out in that paragraph. Or as Buffy once said herself, it's the mission that matters. The decoy slayer seems to be saying "the funny thing is I never even met her, but I chose this gig when it was offered to me because I knew this way I could make a difference." That's just the sense I get after reading it the first time.

vampmogs

01-08-07, 10:48 AM

I agree Vampmogs - (the universe tilts again... ;) :D) the absence of names was probably intentional. We seem to focus on the ones we know and forget there are so many more who fall in the battle of whose names we will never know.

I think you'll find we agree on most things- just not Spuffy :D

For some reason - maybe because of the "Uncle Sam Poster" cover (Jeanty) it reminded me so much of the military. Many soldiers - names unknown (unknown soldier) who fall in the name of some country, cause or leader they fight for.

I agree- see it just happened :) Joss made it clear that the point of s8 wasn't to make a political statement about the US military and I like that in some ways this reflects the situation many US and other nation's soliders are in and respecting their situation and what they are going through for their country.

Still intriquing me are the remarks by the Slug Leader about the Slayer passing the test but not the last one who fell - "who gave us your language" - which I am guessing is English. HE was referenced twice so we know it was a male who fell and his bones were around the Slug Leaders neck. They looked human as far as I could tell from the artwork.

Yeah and I think there will be more more about this somewhere down the line. I also like that it is a he and not another she. I'm all for female empowerment but I'd like to see some male heroes back in action in a heavily female dominated season thus far (cept Xander of course ;) )

The "there is no truth" is ominous to me... I'm thinking this will come up again in the "military" theme being adopted by this Season. Buffy's Truth vs. the Military's Truth?? Who's truth is right? There is no truth?

It is a matter of perspective. However, I think the way they go about it is something to be questioned. Buffy isn't worried about hurting the soliders when rescuing Willow but is willing not to kill them and for them to be healed, Voll just wanted to wipe these girls out.

I guess I just think that stories are more compelling when they're dark and sad and rather bittersweet. Not that there's no room for triumphant stories with happy endings (who doesn't love Independence Day), but I don't know, I kind of forget about those after they're over. Like today I'm still thinking about 8.05 like wow, that was awesome; it really packs more of an emotional punch when it's dark and sad, and I think that it's ultimately more true to life.

I think it has stuck in my mind so much because it was so nostalgic. We hadn't seen these characters since 2003 and we saw them again, doing what they do best and being so good at it. They shone and it was great to see them caring about eachother so much and being so close again.

I think it's definitely the latter. And I think it's for the reason you lay out in that paragraph. Or as Buffy once said herself, it's the mission that matters. The decoy slayer seems to be saying "the funny thing is I never even met her, but I chose this gig when it was offered to me because I knew this way I could make a difference." That's just the sense I get after reading it the first time.

I agree :)

KingofCretins

01-08-07, 02:06 PM

It's definitely the decoy Slayer doing the narration. She's narrating off Yamanh saying Buffy's name, which is why she just says "her".

ferdy-m

03-08-07, 06:19 PM

The last frame is interesting, from, "You don't even know who I am." to:

"But I do."

Compared to Buffy's identity issues in Chosen where she said, "Get. out. of. my. face." to the First, to have a slayer whose job is to wear Buffy's face is very different.

It's moved on from confronting something or someone who would steal identity, to the idea all the dead slayer needed was to know who she recognised herself to be. Very visually effective, the last frame :)

Jenni Lou

03-08-07, 06:54 PM

It's moved on from confronting something or someone who would steal identity, to the idea all the dead slayer needed was to know who she recognised herself to be. Very visually effective, the last frame :)

I agree. I accidentally spoiled myself and saw the last page before I read the issue. So I knew that was coming. Too bad too because it was the best part, imo.

ferdy-m

03-08-07, 07:38 PM

I agree. I accidentally spoiled myself and saw the last page before I read the issue. So I knew that was coming. Too bad too because it was the best part, imo.

a real bummer, isn't it :) I only noticed it because it looked like a mistake with the binding and realised it, that's it, that's the Big Damn Ending!

Sosa lola

04-08-07, 03:20 PM

I've read the issue and enjoyed it. :) The last page made me tear up. Poor nameless slayer. It was a good idea from Joss. If stand alones issues are like this, then that's good. :)

Ehlwyen

05-08-07, 02:53 AM

For me this was easily the best one so far. Largely because it focused on the general Slayerverse rather than just on the current Buffy storyline. But i think it was very well written with how all the different storylines wove in and out forwards and backwards: the actual fight with the demon, the vision quest with the slug creature, her awakening, and her training/becoming Buffy. I think they did a really nice job making each continuity flow even if there were several pages between a single train of thought. It was a bit like a puzzle trying to organize the comic into one chronological tale of a girl.

I'll chime in here that I understood the tv ad to be the actual tv commercial the slayer saw after rescuing her schoolmates from the oncoming vehicle. She then followed up on it and found her way into the slayer training.

Despite my pleasure with the storytelling, I am so not enjoying the mentality of the Slayerverse at this time and this comic solidified and expounded upon those reasons. The recruitment poster cover was very appropriate, much more than the one with the false Buffy. It is terribly sad that Buffy and her friends have essentially become the 21st century version of the witchdoctors that first chained one girl to the slayer lineage. Instead of Slayer being the word to strike fear into the heart of demons, it has been replaced with Buffy's name. Now girls are not just shoved into the institution of a slayer (and its generations of stuffy tradition), they become forced into an identity of Buffy and lose all sense of self.

I loved early Buffy and her rebellion against the Slayer traditions and desire to be her own self with her own strengths. I ALWAYS believed that her individuality is what made her so strong. And now they are cursing these new slayers to be in her image. They effectively condemn them to their own physical death in addition to death of personal identity. I cannot hate the Scoobies and Joss more for this type of mentality. I hope that the rest of the Chain will deal and resolve this injustice to these new slayers, though I seriously doubt it.

I also must extremely argue against the "there is no truth" sentiment. I must first say that I am a strong believer of what you believe is what matters. However if there is no truth then there can be no lie and there are most definitely lies. And this lie of Buffy the Vampire Slayer that they are selling to these impressionable unknown slayers is an affront to me. As well as to all the beliefs that ultimately made Buffy the iconic slayer that the gang is trying to protect at the cost of others.

I wanted to cry at the end for the poor girl being pleased for dying for the lie. My only comfort was that least she believed in herself. Truth or lie that she was chosen because she was worthy, that she believed herself worthy only mattered at this point.

vampmogs

05-08-07, 12:44 PM

I'll chime in here that I understood the tv ad to be the actual tv commercial the slayer saw after rescuing her schoolmates from the oncoming vehicle. She then followed up on it and found her way into the slayer training.

I agree. I think it is ambiguous enough that it could be a commercial on television without raising any real suspicions by the general populous.

Despite my pleasure with the storytelling, I am so not enjoying the mentality of the Slayerverse at this time and this comic solidified and expounded upon those reasons. The recruitment poster cover was very appropriate, much more than the one with the false Buffy. It is terribly sad that Buffy and her friends have essentially become the 21st century version of the witchdoctors that first chained one girl to the slayer lineage. Instead of Slayer being the word to strike fear into the heart of demons, it has been replaced with Buffy's name. Now girls are not just shoved into the institution of a slayer (and its generations of stuffy tradition), they become forced into an identity of Buffy and lose all sense of self.

I'm not sure if I entirely agree with this. In The Long Way Home Buffy states that they have 500 slayers working with them in cells with 1800 known around the world. This could indicate that no slayer is forced to act out in her duties if she doesn't want to, if they were then wouldn't there be 1800 slayers at her command? As long as Buffy isn't forcing these girls to fight for her I don't see a problem with it. There was a time of urgency and this was the only way Buffy could defeat the First and if she isn't forcing these girls to act out then I personally couldn't really compare them with the shadowmen :)

I loved early Buffy and her rebellion against the Slayer traditions and desire to be her own self with her own strengths. I ALWAYS believed that her individuality is what made her so strong. And now they are cursing these new slayers to be in her image. They effectively condemn them to their own physical death in addition to death of personal identity. I cannot hate the Scoobies and Joss more for this type of mentality. I hope that the rest of the Chain will deal and resolve this injustice to these new slayers, though I seriously doubt it.

I agree to some extent, I'm not sure how I feel about a slayer giving up her own identity and becoming Buffy- dying being Buffy for Buffy.

I wanted to cry at the end for the poor girl being pleased for dying for the lie. My only comfort was that least she believed in herself. Truth or lie that she was chosen because she was worthy, that she believed herself worthy only mattered at this point.

I agree. If she had died not believing in the cause and herself it would have been even more terrible.

wil_spike_bloodyhell

05-08-07, 06:10 PM

I really loved the story of this book, however it was a little confusing in comicbook form. I did understand it when I slowed my reading down it would've worked gorgeously on screen though. I miss it on TV *le sigh* but I'm happy to have my Master... bater back on stories. I've really enjoyed season 8 thus far.

Impy

05-08-07, 09:43 PM

I had to read this issue three times before I fully understood everything that was going on. It has to be said that Andrew and Vi's page was hillarious.

I was overjoyed to see that my email had been published by Scott on the back page. "Tom from Liverpool, England." Check it out!

Jenni Lou

05-08-07, 09:48 PM

I was overjoyed to see that my email had been published by Scott on the back page. "Tom from Liverpool, England." Check it out!

Cool, man! :) They must get so many letters and such; it must be nice to be a chosen one. ;) I just re-read yours. You think we will be seeing Ethan Rayne some more then, eh? Guess we shall see!

Impy

05-08-07, 09:57 PM

Cool, man! :) They must get so many letters and such; it must be nice to be a chosen one. ;) I just re-read yours. You think we will be seeing Ethan Rayne some more then, eh? Guess we shall see!

I sent that email before we had actually seen Ethan in the comic so the timing is complety off. I haven't thought about Ethan personally since I saw he was dead. Looking back on the situation, General Voll states that Ethan could have helped Buffy against Twilight and therefore I do think a part of him will pop up again.

some spykie ship

10-08-07, 03:18 AM

I was inspired to write in too, mainly because Scott said that if we had a strong opinion about the comic or about an opinion about the comic, we can write him about it.

My impression of the Buffy decoy in this story was that she was volunteering for the job, like she had heard that decoys were wanted and when she got bitten and knew that Buffy was bitten, she decided to see if there was anything she could do. Also, if drafting was involved, it wouldn't have been a smaller girl with black hair. Another reason why I don't believe that the decoys are forced into this service is because, like vampmogs said, there are 1800 Slayers and only 500 were recruited. Odds are, there would be at least one trigger-happy person like Kennedy.

I figured that the T.V. commercial was a joke from Joss at first, but if Giles and/or some mystics managed to keep curiosity under wraps, I don't see how that commercial couldn't have been real.

The only thing I struggled with at first was whether or not the girl saving the kids from the truck was the same girl as the Slayer who was fighting and dying throughout the story. I had to read it a couple of times.

Impy

10-08-07, 03:30 AM

The only thing I struggled with at first was whether or not the girl saving the kids from the truck was the same girl as the Slayer who was fighting and dying throughout the story. I had to read it a couple of times.
Me too. I also think that the lady she was speaking to at the desk was meant to be the character Althenea who has been refferenced through out Season 7.

Jenni Lou

10-08-07, 03:36 AM

The only thing I struggled with at first was whether or not the girl saving the kids from the truck was the same girl as the Slayer who was fighting and dying throughout the story. I had to read it a couple of times.

That hadn't even occurred to me. Makes sense. So, is it the same girl? I've only read it once myself and haven't really gone back to see again. I have to admit that whole schoolyard-sh scene fit in so oddly into the rest of the story. The only way I can really justify it being in this particular issue is if it is the same girl. But like I said, I only read it once so...

some spykie ship

10-08-07, 03:38 AM

Althenea...I always picture her looking more mystic or something. It never crossed my mind that a lady dressed business-casual could have been her. Hmm....

Impy

10-08-07, 03:38 AM

That hadn't even occurred to me. Makes sense. So, is it the same girl? I've only read it once myself and haven't really gone back to see again.
The brunette school girl and Slayer is the same person as the Buffy decoy. It took me a few tries to understand aswell. I think it would of looked awsome on screen though.

Jenni Lou

10-08-07, 04:52 AM

Thanks. Next time I read it I bet I will appreciate the story more overall. It won't seem so....scattered..

vampmogs

10-08-07, 11:04 AM

The brunette school girl and Slayer is the same person as the Buffy decoy. It took me a few tries to understand aswell. I think it would of looked awsome on screen though.

Yeah and Rona also states to her that she needs a serious dye job on her hair, which explains why she was brunette in those panels then blonde in the others. :)

Wolfie Gilmore

10-08-07, 12:09 PM

I thought you might all be interested in this livejournal post about The Chain - a commentary on the nature of identity and heroism, referencing other Jossy stuff too (notably firefly). Haven't read it all the way through yet, but it caught my eye and thought I'd link to it before I forgot!

http://stormwreath.livejournal.com/21701.html

EDIT: Have read it now, v interesting. This was my initial response to the post (would love to discuss in here). It relates back to some of the discussions we've been having about heroes/victims and choice.

Fascinating post, thank you. It’s been a while since I studied Sartre etc, so had to reach back in my brain for those old concepts. The link between existentialism and adolescence is a very interesting one…and Angel’s affinity for it confirms my idea of him as the permanent adolescent…or at least, someone whose adolescence lasted over a 100 years (til around the end of season 2 of Angel, I’d say!). It certainly appealed to me as a teenager – the idea that YOU create your own meaning…which gives ignorant young whippersnappers like I was the excuse to ignore what had gone before and pretend they were inventing everything from a blank slate (sex, music, moral thought).

Existentialism is a particularly interesting philosophical viewfinder to view Buffy through, as it’s an emotive philosophy, one that doesn’t stick to the “purity” of logic and reason that other Western philosophies require…it’s more political, more engaging-of-the-heart-and-the-blood. That doesn’t make it better or worse than philosophical discourse as defined by thinkers like A J Ayer, but more apt for Buffy – whose “emotions give [her] power”, and who works best when hand, heart and head and spirit are combined.

Whedonverse also has a concept of soul/concience, of a moral compass which pushes heroes in a certain direction.

Great point: the Buffyverse’s concept of the soul is an essentialist concept. Or at least…the concept of soullessness is. A soul doesn’t make you good…but the lack of one makes it impossible for you to be anything other than bad. At least, that’s the theory. Vampires like Spike, or demons like Clem seem to go some way to disproving the theory, or shaking it up a little. Perhaps you could say all the Buffyversers are in a state of Bad Faith on this issue…they believe in an essentialist concept of the soul/the state of soullessness…but they’re mistaken, and hold onto that belief because it’s comfortable?

Re the Chain: I saw the slayer’s choice as comparable to that kid with the brain tumour in Lie to Me. Buffy says something along the lines of “it’s not a good choice…but it’s a choice”. This slayer has been backed into a corner to a degree – she no longer has certain options open to her (eg to be normal). Circumstances limit our actions, our range of options…but the action of choosing is always open to us.

Or is it? In the Buffyverse, there are various choiceless states…arguably, being a vampire means you cannot choose to be good (though, as above, perhaps this isn’t the case?)…and being possessed (eg by hyena spirits) also means you cannot control your own fate (or being possessed by all kinds of things).

Anyway. For the slayer in The Chain, she certainly experienced choice, she felt that she was free…and the existentialist position is one that places a lot of value on experience and feeling – whether it’s avoiding false feelings (believing that you aren’t free, or believing that your role defines you….as with Sartre’s example of a waiter who thinks that he is summed up by his own waiteryness, when actually, he’s always choosing to remain a waiter) or having an authentic experience of your own existence and purpose.

The un-named slayer, in my view, and after chewing it over, a hero: because, way I see it…most heroes are partly victims. Not many people leave happy lives to go and hunt demons/fight people just for the hell of it. There’s usually some threat from the outside, or some circumstance that prompts the hero to get with the righteous smiting. And often, the hero is part of a bigger picture, that they can’t control. The classic example of this for me being Frodo in Lord of the Rings, who had no idea quite how much shit he was getting himself into when he accepted the ring quest. Like a WWI soldier, he was a little person in a big war.

Heroism is often just a matter of making the best of a bad job – turning a victim state into a moment of decision and choice and power.

Jenni Lou

10-08-07, 03:24 PM

All the mentioning of choice and freedom reminds me of a another philosopher and one of his ideas: David Hume's free will vs. determinism debate. :p That's the great thing about philosophy though, it can applied to most any kind of storytelling. I read your post, Wolfie, (interesting! :) ) but couldn't be bothered with the link you posted. It's too long and too early in the morning for me to digest such thoughts. :coffee:

Wolfie Gilmore

10-08-07, 03:34 PM

That's the great thing about philosophy though, it can applied to most any kind of storytelling.

Bien sur! Though I find some are more sympathetic to certain sorts of stories than others. I reckon Hobbes would be a good fit for Deadwood :D

I read your post, Wolfie, (interesting! :) ) but couldn't be bothered with the link you posted. It's too long and too early in the morning for me to digest such thoughts. :coffee:

Heh. Wait til post-coffee. Actually, reading some of the person's other comics post. Worth a look.

I was thinking about the fact that a lot of people have been finding the comics confusing or ambiguous (me included...thinking taht the Andrew commercial was perhaps a meta thing rather than part of the story). I wonder...is this partly because they haven't quite got the knack of converting tv ideas into a comics medium? Or perhaps it's us that haven't adjusted? I mean, I read a lot of comics, but I think I still approach Buffy comics with my Buffy-on-tv head on, to a certain extent. I don't find the time/subject jumps confusing, but things like Andrew's informertial, because we don't get given a context for it...yeah, leaves quite a lot of work for the reader to unravel, in a way that I don't think they'd have to on telly. They could just cut to someone watching it or someone turning off the tv.

Then again, they could've done that in the comic....ignore me! I think it's an interesting device, inserting it like that, but definitely leaves one's imagination to run away with one.

Sosa lola

10-08-07, 08:17 PM

some spykie ship

10-08-07, 09:47 PM

Jenni Lou

10-08-07, 10:04 PM

I had no idea that it was Andrew in that infomercial. I've been having a hard time recognizing Andrew in comic-book form in general, come to think of it. I'm not sure he's as well drawn as the other characters.

What gives it away for me is the V-shaped, choppy hair. It's the same hairstyle he had in S7. The only other way I can recognize him is from the dialogue, which is very long and winded and geeky. :p

Veverka

11-08-07, 03:22 AM

Yeah and Rona also states to her that she needs a serious dye job on her hair, which explains why she was brunette in those panels then blonde in the others. :)

Which I thought was a neat way to reference James Marsters, who, if I remember rightly, peroxided his hair every nine days... :2party: could be I'm making too much of it, but, they could have chosen a blonde slayer...

I was thinking about the fact that a lot of people have been finding the comics confusing or ambiguous (me included...thinking taht the Andrew commercial was perhaps a meta thing rather than part of the story). I wonder...is this partly because they haven't quite got the knack of converting tv ideas into a comics medium? Or perhaps it's us that haven't adjusted? I mean, I read a lot of comics, but I think I still approach Buffy comics with my Buffy-on-tv head on, to a certain extent. I don't find the time/subject jumps confusing, but things like Andrew's informertial, because we don't get given a context for it...yeah, leaves quite a lot of work for the reader to unravel, in a way that I don't think they'd have to on telly. They could just cut to someone watching it or someone turning off the tv.

Totally agree, and I feel it's me. I haven't ever read a comic before, and when I read normally, I'm a speed reader. So TV slows things down for me, and I appreciate things I wouldn't always get, the smaller details. In the comic, I spend so much time rushing through the dialogue that I have to go back a second and third time to get the details from the pictures.

The take I have, though, do any avid comic readers around here have the inclination to post some clues for what I should look for when reading a comic in general?

some spykie ship

11-08-07, 04:53 AM

The take I have, though, do any avid comic readers around here have the inclination to post some clues for what I should look for when reading a comic in general?

Being new to comics myself due to this season, I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone, and the way I've been doing it is re-reading and each time taking in the big picture. I sort of linger for a minute on each page, making sure that I'm not reading any dialogue bubbles out of order or skimming over too many images, especially the characters' facial expressions and implied body language.

Wolfie Gilmore

11-08-07, 12:49 PM

Totally agree, and I feel it's me. I haven't ever read a comic before, and when I read normally, I'm a speed reader. So TV slows things down for me, and I appreciate things I wouldn't always get, the smaller details. In the comic, I spend so much time rushing through the dialogue that I have to go back a second and third time to get the details from the pictures.

The take I have, though, do any avid comic readers around here have the inclination to post some clues for what I should look for when reading a comic in general?

Yup, I'm an avid (sometimes rabid) comics fan. I'd say that the "trick" to reading comics is certainly to take your time...or to re-read. Perhaps the best way to describe reading a comic is that you have to drink in each panel, sort of turn it over on your tongue. Like posh, complicated food :D (mixing my food/drink metaphors there...).

That goes for densely packed comics anyway. Some comics are much more space-y - it's been the trend over recent years to only have a few panels per page, which makes them easier to read fast. Joss Whedon's X-Men are actually much more liek that. Sometimes you get hardly more than one panel a page, so you get greater clarity. He's packing more panels into these Buffy comics, which is great in terms of the complexity of storytelling you can get, but it can get quite busy and confusing.