Why do People like Season 6 so much? [Archive]

Jenni Lou

19-07-07, 09:59 PM

omri

19-07-07, 10:08 PM

Valyssia

19-07-07, 10:28 PM

I absolutely LOVED season 6. It was the second act that finally came. They sure took their time with that. You have to dissect your heroes for them to be anything more than...well...UNDERDOG!!! "Here I come to save the day!"

*queues the bad theme music to set mood*

IMO it would have been much better placed in season 4 so that some of the material had a bit of time to shake down. Though at that point Joss only envisioned the story as a 5 season arc so...makes sense, it didn't happen. If he had a chance for the rewrite, I bet he'd go that way...or similar...

The only thing I found a bit tedious was the drug metaphor. It wore just a bit thin in places. It was a very interesting idea that was over-worked by the time it aired. Willow had been having troubles for too long. We saw it start a bit too far back so...they had to grind the knife tip in just a far as a result. It didn't ring as true as it should've IMO. You get worse and worse and worse and let's drag this out a bit more and then worse...all of sudden you've got the absurd happening because there's no other way to play the point. Another result of writing a story with a finite ending and then trying to pick it back up.

Valyssia

holypotatoes

19-07-07, 11:57 PM

What's funny is I used to see season 6 the way you do Omri. I used to absolutely despise it but I wasn't really sure why. Then a couple of years went by and I got older and more mature and understood the season. You have to realize I was like 12 when season 6 actually aired. Now seson 6 is my second favorite season with season 3 coming in 1st. I like the fact that Buffy hit her all time low in S6. She was the only one that always had her shit together. She was, as what Willow referred to herself in S3 as Old Reliable. Buffy was the strong dependable one and with all of that gone, made for a topsy tursy season. Along with all the other characters going down hill as well. They all had their problems. S6 showed what could happen if you make the wrong decisions in life, it can literally make your life crash and burn. Besides I think the kittens and Shark were only in the one episode so it's not like it was that huge of a thing when a normal season has 22 episodes. Therefore I hope the reason you don't like S6 is all because of that one episode because you can always skip it. :D

~Stacy

omri

20-07-07, 12:17 AM

The thing is, that some how the strongest memory i have from this season is the shark demon and kittens... lol. If it wasn't that big of an issue maybe i would have remembered it. but it was it was on more then one episode.. the kittens i mean. I think if i'll re watch it i will like it more.. but the memory of it is dumb.

ThePoet's<3

20-07-07, 03:18 AM

I liked S6 because it took our sweet little pristine goody-goody heros and totally trashed them to become the wretched refuse they ended up being and then left them to figure out how to get back to where they had been! And boy did they struggle! And they never "quite" return in S7 to where they were before S6! Like a shattering a crystal vase - you may get it all glued back together but it will never be the perfect vessel it once was. Oh, they get through it - but the changes are there. The new respect for each other.

I can identify with imperfect people - people who make mistakes and wrong decisions so much more than people who "always win", "always do the right thing", "always make the right decisions". My life isn't like that!!

And now our Scoobies are entering young adulthood! And they learn that decision are not so cut and dry (Good/Evil=Slayer/Vampire) - EVIL can sometimes mascarade as GOOD! And the RIGHT decision might be the lesser of the WRONG decisions.

I love the GREYNESS!! EMBRACE THE GREY!!!!! :D OOOOooo... That makes your toes tingle!! (well it made mine tingle... :D)

ykickamoocow

20-07-07, 04:49 AM

I hate season 6 just as much as when it first aired. I always thought the entire season had far to many dark moments and not nearly enough happy ones. Buffy spends a good portion of the season nearly suicidal, Willow is a drug addict and Xander spends some time as a drunk. I dont know how anyone can like a season which betrays previously established character traits so much.

Jenni Lou

20-07-07, 05:13 AM

Well, I think Buffy's "suicidal" state is clearly explained. I hardly see Xander as a drunk. As for Willow...they have been establishing her as getting too involved with magic since season four. That is hardly rushed. But that's just my observation...

Big Bad

20-07-07, 05:33 AM

I'm with Jenni Lou. Season Six had the most character development overall. Season Six was actually when I started watching. It's the one that got me hooked on Buffy. And after going back and watching all the seasons, Season Six is probably my favorite because of the dark, moody, character-driven story lines.

Yes, there was a loan "shark" demon and gambling for kittens. But those were only a very small part of the overall story and were meant to be kind of "tongue in cheek." I don't think they detracted anything from the big picture, at least not for me.

tangent

20-07-07, 08:56 AM

I would have to go with the 6 lovers here. I think one of the bravest thiongs you can do in a series is to let your characters grow and change. You risk allienating part of your audience to do so but it makes for better t.v as a whole.

The angst and darkness that occur in 6 are all for very good reasons, nothing just happens except in an organic way and the focus is away from the saving of the day to the personal hurts of our heroes. We probably get to know more about them in 6 than in any other season,

As for the shark and so on; well every season has it's daft moment although i suppose the two you pick out are paticularly daft. It is needed in small parts though to balance the darkness and those moments are two from a season that brought us Dark Willow. That's a trade i'd make any time.

vampmogs

20-07-07, 09:51 AM

Upon first viewing, I was not at all pleased with season six. As a fan of the mythology in the Buffyverse I felt during the season the writers failed to find that happy blend of the supernatural and dramatic aspects of the show it once mixed so well. Focusing heavily on bringing our characters to their lowest points, I was disapointed to see that the writers appeared to do a half-assed job with other aspects of the show, such as the demon makeup (the shark, the demon that poisons Buffy) and wasn't at all impressed with the "kitten poker" as you have mentioned. I remember once reading a review of season six when the reviewer said that whilst the writers did a great job of exploring Buffy's 'real world' problems, she might as well hadn't been the vampire slayer as that part of her story was greatly ignored. Which is probably why IMO, it felt very odd for Buffy to suddenly bring up the importance of being a slayer to Willow before their confrontation.

Nor was I a Spuffy fan, and I still aren't now. I found the unhealthy relationship degrading and whilst I'm all for challenging our characters I see no need to lower each of them to such a depressing state, it doesn't seem natural to me or what the show was ever about. Basically I think the writers got a taste of the dark and it is more fun to drag our characters through the dirt then bring them together and unite them.

However, upon my second viewing and therefore after that I began to appreciate season six a little more. The characters did go through a lot, they did change and whilst I didn't always like what I saw that was kind of the point of the entire season. I think at times the writers put our characters into the position where they turned some fans of them entirley but for the most part their actions were understandable and you could sympathise with them, even if you didn't agree with how they were acting.

I didn't enjoy the Trio, I understand they were supposed to be pathetic but they bored me. I don't watch Buffy to see made invisible, or put through lame annoying tests.. it just seemed crappy to me. We knew Buffy was easily going to get out of it, we knew for the most part she was never in any real danger; so it was kind of pointless to watch all these things happen when you knew how pathetic the Trio were. Many of them resulted in interesting things happening; Buffy being happy she had disapeared as for example. However, I think the writers on Btvs are talented to turn any crappy story around and make it marginally interesting, doesn't mean it was the best quality.

Season six was an ok season, not my favourite but definitly not my most hated. The writing wasn't as sharp as it usually was, I think the season appeared to be written better than it was because the characters were driven to interesting places in which any reasonable writer can make something good of it. However, the writing in no way compares to the third season as for example. I think Normal Again had potentially the best, or at least close to it, written scene of the sixth season. When Joyce tells Buffy to believe in herself again, that was very well done.

The best three factors of the season

1) Buffy coming back from heaven and being severely depressed. It was a very interesting way to show depression through a character and I loved how steadily throughout the season she got better.

2) Willow's magic addiction. Again, good use of the mythology to create a metaphor for a real life problem. I thoroughly enjoyed this and it tied in well with everything her character had been cautioned with in earlier seasons.

3) Life is the big bad- I wish there was something that was more of a threat than Buffy than the Trio but did like the idea that life was the big bad. I just think there was enough bad to be shared around.

The worst three factors of the season.

1) Spike- was so sick of him by this point. He's charming as a character that pops up and says something interesting or humorous. However, IMO he bores me when having too much screen time, I think it sucks the life out of his character and makes him uninteresting.

2) The Trio- as I spoke of earlier, for most of the season were no real threat to Buffy. When knowing this it seems pointless to have to sit through scenes of them plotting all these pathetic things together because there is never any worry they could be a big threat. Although I did like Warren's evil turn.

3) Spuffy- completely degrading and harmful to my fave character. Attempted rape. I've said enough... oh that and Marti Noxon I dislike you.

basakbangel

26-07-07, 10:10 AM

I really like the text that "vampmogs" wrote. and I agree almost every part.
I really don't know too. Actually my favourite seasons were 2&3. I kinda like season 6 but I don't think that there were so much reasons to adore it. I think season 6 was the season that every character got crazy. so that made it a bit ridicilous.

Personally; sometimes I miss watching some seasons and maybe the atmospere of the season. But till this time, I didn't miss season 6. so I don't love it that much and I still cannot some people chose it as the best. It wasn't the best and the worst I think, but It's a bit confusing. Ok, there were some much character developments. like Willow the most part or like Buffy. But there were smth going on unhealty a little of Buffy reactions as she was returned from death. It's understandable b/c If the writers contiuned the reactions like it was, It'd completely be stupid so I respect them.

In addition to this;

(-)I didn't like "the trio" that much as the season's vilian.(after watching angelus,faith, mayor, master,glory etc.)
(-)I'm not spuffy, I'm bangel. (but this season wasn't really the best season for spuffies I think. because It was lust.)
(+)I love Willow character(one of my faves), seeing her losing control was different, inordinary and unique b/c come on, willow is a person she may have some problems. and It was worth watching.

these are the ones that remember right now. but there should be more of course. To sum up, season 6 was fine,good. but not really the one to say that It's best.

enigma

26-07-07, 07:00 PM

Well, There's a point there. But maybe it's the little stuff that's annoys me. There are some points over there that really ticked me off. The gambaling on kittens.... The shark demon.. The reason i like Buffy so much is that the show can pull out all this demons and badasses without making it cheezie. But the shark demon thingy and all that was so cheezie!.
Ok here is my two cents. I beleive there was strong character development and Joss did state that season was about life. And the shark demon was supposed to represent a lan shark and in th Hellmouth that is literary. I love Tabula Rasa and OWMF and I love how they suprised us with Dark Willow. I loved Tara and having Willow go all Black Magic seeking revenge was inevitable.

vampmogs

27-07-07, 04:27 AM

Ok here is my two cents. I beleive there was strong character development and Joss did state that season was about life. And the shark demon was supposed to represent a lan shark and in th Hellmouth that is literary. I love Tabula Rasa and OWMF and I love how they suprised us with Dark Willow. I loved Tara and having Willow go all Black Magic seeking revenge was inevitable.

Your right it was supposed to resemble a lone shark but there are many ways they could have made him a lot better. Joke or not I think it needs to look as believable as possible, and this makeup really stretched the limits IMO. The show has always done quite well with the makeup and to suddenly have something like this really grates against a great deal of fans. It is all good and well having a laugh and a joke, but not if it sacrifices the believability of the story. Well that's my opinion anyway :)

like.clover

03-08-07, 12:59 AM

I like season 6 for a few reasons. First and foremost, it's the last great season. Secondly, I love the "mature feel" it had to it. I really enjoyed seeing the Scoobies really enter the adult world. I noticed that Dawn maturity grew significantly from season 5, and Buffy, well, partly because of her mothers recent death, had to (I'm not saying she wasn't an "adult" in season 5, but on a financial level Buffy was pretty much on her own]. I liked Willow's growing magic addiction, and the days prior to and including Anya and Xander's wedding. All of the characters went through a major life change, some for the better and some for the worse! :)

Cinderela

03-08-07, 02:54 AM

I thought it contained the largest amount character development for most of the characters...more than other seasons. I like the looks of it...a lot of darker episodes--not darker has in more angsty or moodier--but literally darker. Aesthetically, I liked it.

Or has I wrote in an essay: S6 was not about gods or monsters--it was about inactions and the subsequent consequences of those inactions. I've seen innumerable complaints about S6, but I, however, welcomed the dark tone the series took. It was absolutely necessary to pull the characters apart. For five years Buffy, Willow, and Xander stood, more or less, side by side; they fought together, cried together, and most importantly, stayed together. A departure from their unity is precisely what needed to happen. Suddenly every character was alone and fending for themselves--Giles, the quintessential voice of reason, leaves; Dawn is often ignored; Tara deserts Willow (and I can also argue that Willow deserts herself); Xander and Anya break away from each other long before their wedding day; Buffy becomes a supreme isolationist; and Spike, well, has been alone for quite sometime, only in S6 he grapples with his newfound epiphany. Life is somehow more disrupted, more dangerous than it has ever been before--and this is without the menace of a super-powerful 'Big Bad'.

That's how I defend my love of S6 - Quantum leaps forward in character development - all our heroes are getting older and facing life issues as they never have before - friends develop addictions (to various things, drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc.), friends enter into very bad relationships and sometimes even MARRY them........all characters are growing up and finding out that even if you HAVE superpowers, they aren't much help when you're almost bankrupt or your sister is a kepto. Sometimes, real life is harder than their demon fighting lives.

Focusing heavily on bringing our characters to their lowest points, I was disapointed to see that the writers appeared to do a half-assed job with other aspects of the show, such as the demon makeup (the shark, the demon that poisons Buffy) and wasn't at all impressed with the "kitten poker" as you have mentioned.

Well, it's hard to defend the oh so cheesy shark, but maybe I should be ashamed to admit that I LOVED kitten poker. It was a comic relief in the exact place it was needed.

Nor was I a Spuffy fan, and I still aren't now. I found the unhealthy relationship degrading and whilst I'm all for challenging our characters I see no need to lower each of them to such a depressing state, it doesn't seem natural to me or what the show was ever about.

But, sometimes people do enter into dangerously unhealthly, degrading relationships and have to find their way out - or else! No, the show is not about that, but it was marvelously developed through the whole season and you can't deny the impact of that relationship reverberated all the way through to Chosen.

The best three factors of the season

1) Buffy coming back from heaven and being severely depressed. It was a very interesting way to show depression through a character and I loved how steadily throughout the season she got better.

2) Willow's magic addiction. Again, good use of the mythology to create a metaphor for a real life problem. I thoroughly enjoyed this and it tied in well with everything her character had been cautioned with in earlier seasons.

3) Life is the big bad- I wish there was something that was more of a threat than Buffy than the Trio but did like the idea that life was the big bad. I just think there was enough bad to be shared around.

I agree on all points - how I defend my love of S6 - LIFE is the big bad! They all found out that sometimes, LIFE SUCKS! Especially grown life - you have to muddle through on your own, making your own choices and mistakes and hopefully learning from them.

Nothing supernatural is needed to make you miserable. Sometimes it's just life!

vampmogs

03-08-07, 05:54 AM

Well, it's hard to defend the oh so cheesy shark, but maybe I should be ashamed to admit that I LOVED kitten poker. It was a comic relief in the exact place it was needed.

I just think that after all the comic brilliance over the years the writers should have, and had the ability to, come up with something much better than kitten poker.

But, sometimes people do enter into dangerously unhealthly, degrading relationships and have to find their way out - or else! No, the show is not about that, but it was marvelously developed through the whole season and you can't deny the impact of that relationship reverberated all the way through to Chosen.

It wasn't just about Buffy's unhealthy relationship it was more about all these bad things happening to the scoobies in one hit. The wonder of Btvs was that it could be funny, sad, scary, action-packed all at once. I think the show lost some of its appeal when it focused a lot at making the show depressing and had not as much of the other aspects that made it so great. Don't get me wrong, I like season six I just think it wasn't the best. :)

And yeah the impact of the relationship did carry on throughout season seven but would this automatically make it a good thing? Most fans can't stand season seven, some feel this way because how much screen time Spike got which was in a way a direct effect of Spuffy from the previous year.

I agree on all points - how I defend my love of S6 - LIFE is the big bad! They all found out that sometimes, LIFE SUCKS! Especially grown life - you have to muddle through on your own, making your own choices and mistakes and hopefully learning from them.

Agreed. :)

Nothing supernatural is needed to make you miserable. Sometimes it's just life!

Again I agree. But being a supernatural show I wish the writers developed more on that front this season like they had in previous seasons. The supernatural stories were rather lame and not up to their usual standards, I like a healthy mix between both.

Wolfie Gilmore

03-08-07, 09:30 AM

I just think that after all the comic brilliance over the years the writers should have, and had the ability to, come up with something much better than kitten poker.

Oh contraire mon frere! It's poker! With kittens! Life brings no higher nor sweeter pleasure. Season 6 gives us some great new comedy characters too...Andrew and Clem.

Though I think Clem's best line ever comes in season 7: "Cutting waaay back on the cat. Cholesterol. (beat, off Buffy's look) Morals!"

Impy

05-08-07, 09:45 PM

It wasn't the best Season in my opinion. Five or seven stand on top for me. I find it hard to understand people ranking Season 6 over these seasons. Obviously its all a matter of opinion.

Jenni Lou

05-08-07, 10:01 PM

It wasn't the best Season in my opinion. Five or seven stand on top for me. I find it hard to understand people ranking Season 6 over these seasons. Obviously its all a matter of opinion.

Yes, it is a matter of opinion. In fact you will find most folks at this forum rank season 7 as their lowest (not including 1). I have come to find that many members here seem to have a deep dislike of the last season as a whole and would be surprised by your ranking it so high. :D

Impy

11-08-07, 06:41 PM

Season 7 had a really strong start in my opinion. In some places it flawed but I felt as though the ideas were really fresh and were introducing operunities for the show to go on for more seasons. Obviously that wasn't the case in the end.

Paradise

12-08-07, 12:52 AM

Season six is probably my favorite, it's hard to choose though. It has so many good episodes and such a wide range in that season. It's the continuation of Spuffy, it has Dark Willow, Once More With Feeling, what more do you need? :2party: :2party: Honestly, it's just incredibly creative and it kept you on your toes. Season 7 was also amazing to me. Both were my two favorites, Season 5 following closely.

jdt1986

12-08-07, 07:06 AM

I think this season was so popular because of a relationship between a certain slayer and a certain vampire... Which was the exact reason I HATED season 6...

Dark Willow was the only thing that saved this season for me...

As far as I'm concerned, I feel season 5 should have been the end of the whole series, it ended on such a profound note, Buffys death marked the end of an era. I found 6 and 7 completely dire... Crap storylines, annoying characters and the ruination of certain main characters at the end of season 7...

Jamie

Julian

12-08-07, 10:00 AM

I think this season was so popular because of a relationship between a certain slayer and a certain vampire... Which was the exact reason I HATED season 6...

Dark Willow was the only thing that saved this season for me...
Jamie

Agreed. Xander, Anya, Dawn and Giles S6 were pretty bland or crappy in S6. Willow's magical addiction was good but not Jossverse good. It was vindicated IMO only at the end of the season with Xander.

And Tara's death through Warren was somewhat lame if Joss intendedit to be a social message for gun control.

As for Buffy's arc in S6, It seemed to involve Spike or anxiety. I have no problem with anxiety or ships, but it got pretty old pretty fast (and because I'manti spuffy maybe that'spart of it). There was no depth there for Buffy, unlike in the previous seasons. Hell, I think Buffy's arc in S4 is better than S6's

Oh and they tended to over-use Spike IMO which leads me back to my opinion that they shoved the rest of the Scoobies behind the scenes to give certain fans a certain ship.

Overall, I think S6 feels like a bad soap opera.

As far as I'm concerned, I feel season 5 should have been the end of the whole series, it ended on such a profound note, Buffys death marked the end of an era. I found 6 and 7 completely dire... Crap storylines, annoying characters and the ruination of certain main characters at the end of season 7...

I wouldn' say that. S6 sucked IMO. S7 was okay, but given that it was the final flight, I expected it to a whole lot better - Instead, it wasn't. I remember reading an interview with a director (I can't remember which but she was mostly an Angel director) and she said that S7 was suffering from thelackof funds. I think that may be the reason that S7 was below expectations.

vampmogs

12-08-07, 01:04 PM

And Tara's death through Warren was somewhat lame if Joss intendedit to be a social message for gun control.

I don't think this was his main intention. It was more about what needed to happen to Willow's character, although I doubt it was a coincidence she was killed by a gun after the constant remarks about how bad they are throughout the show.

As for Buffy's arc in S6, It seemed to involve Spike or anxiety. I have no problem with anxiety or ships, but it got pretty old pretty fast (and because I'manti spuffy maybe that'spart of it). There was no depth there for Buffy, unlike in the previous seasons. Hell, I think Buffy's arc in S4 is better than S6's

I'd have to disagree about there being no depth in Spuffy. I'm very anti Spuffy but I do think the relationship had a lot of depth, I personally find it unappealing and unhealthy on a number of levels. I wouldn't say any of Buffy's relationships lacked depth.

Oh and they tended to over-use Spike IMO which leads me back to my opinion that they shoved the rest of the Scoobies behind the scenes to give certain fans a certain ship.

I agree on that, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Spike is at his best when he pops up every once in a while. I think as a character constantly being used he becomes stale and old and looses much of his charm.

Overall, I think S6 feels like a bad soap opera.

Buffy's always been very much like a soap opera, I just think that in the sixth season they lost that happy blend between the soap opera and supernatural aspects of the show.

I wouldn' say that. S6 sucked IMO. S7 was okay, but given that it was the final flight, I expected it to a whole lot better - Instead, it wasn't. I remember reading an interview with a director (I can't remember which but she was mostly an Angel director) and she said that S7 was suffering from thelackof funds. I think that may be the reason that S7 was below expectations.

IMO season seven sucked because the writing sucked, I really don't see how more funding had anything to do with the quality of words put out on the page. I actually thought the final fight in terms of quality was good for Btvs and a lot more than I expected given it never did have a massive budget.

Risa

12-08-07, 10:22 PM

I like season six alot because of the way Joss broke our characters down. Sure in the past seasons they have experienced loss, heartbreak, etc. But in season 6 all the characters at some point break. You don't have a season full of smiles and cheesy demons. You have a season full of what makes life, well...life. You see the scoobies actually have separate and different lives and they have problems that have nothing to do with icky little monsters. Sure, the slayer can stand up to demons with ooze all over them, so lets throw something at her that we haven't really seen before. Lets have her deal with life. Demons and fighting is cool to watch, but the show would get boring and lifeless if really life problems weren't thrown in every now and then. We have an addiction, a sordid affair, a man afraid of turning into what he hates. This is why season six rocks. We get to see into the lives and minds of the scooby gang like we never have before. (am I making sense here?)

selenspuffy

25-08-07, 01:54 AM

I love the dark side of season6. In my opinion, it's one of the best seasons; because it's different from the other seasons it's unique.That's why people like season6 so much. After watching other seasons, I want smth different and find myself watching season six. In addition, Willow is my favourite character and Season 6 is an important part of her life so I love watching it. Her choices and decisions of love,magic and friendship. What's more I'm a spuffy and I know that some people think that its no good for Spuffy either b/c there isnt much romance in it. In my idea, the important thing is to see buffy&spike together. Of course it is important whats happening but to see the couple is kinda enough to feel okay about it.
To conclude, Season 7 is my favourite for Spuffy relationship but Season 6 is its beginning.

Moscow Watcher

28-08-07, 06:09 PM

Nikki

29-08-07, 12:47 PM

Season 6 to me dealt with the adult issues that these characters would be facing in real life. The struggle to do what's right and what's easy. Addiction, freedom and depression.

With Willow's magick addition Xander said it best that it's these well behaved children that grow up, experience freedom and then go to the extreme. I love how they made the Magick like a drug addiction for her, she needed it and it drove everyone away from her until she was able to ask for help and realise she had a problem. It's a dark issue but goes on around so much it was great to bring it out in this way.

Buffy coming back from the dead.. well as none of us (that I know of) have done that yet it's hard to make comparisons but it's well described, her feeling of not being there, that she was in hell now. That's what everyone wants to do.. connect.. why do you think we are all online, in a forum chatting about our favourite things. We need to feel close to people. Buffy not being able to do that leaves her to believe that there is something wrong with her if she can't make it work. Plus being the slayer has always made her more distant so this must have felt unbelievably lonely, creating the self hate we see so much of in season 6.

Xander battling with getting married, the biggest decision of an adult life and he realises there is no way he can make this now, but it's too late.

I love that they are all so full of their own lives they don't notice others in the same situation, also very true of people in reality. The Trio would never have been able to go as far as they did if they had a Slayer on form and a wicca in control.

As for Spuffy, while I am a huge Spuffy fan season 6 is for the wrong reasons. Buffy treated Spike worse than anything I've ever seen on TV. If it had been Spike treating Buffy like that I'm sure it wouldn't have ever been shown. While she never had to force him into it because he was in love with her the feeling of self hatred she had in herself was passed on to him just so she could feel and get through the next few hours. But this isn't a Spuffy thread..

So yeah that's why I love season 6. While all seasons do have adult tones to them this was 100% adult and it shows it for what it really is. Dark and hard, but in the end people help you through, like Xander saving the world. :)

Wolfie Gilmore

29-08-07, 12:56 PM

Buffy coming back from the dead.. well as none of us (that I know of) have done that yet it's hard to make comparisons but it's well described, her feeling of not being there, that she was in hell now.

In my mind (which doesn’t make it real at all, but it’s how I understand it), Buffy’s return from the dead works as a metaphor for grief-linked depression. She died to save Dawn – to do what her mother couldn’t, to fill the gap left by Joyce’s death. Coming back from that – from losing her mother and trying to be her mother at the same time – is hard, lonely, slow. It’s the transition into true adulthood (perhaps we can’t really be adults until we lose our parents, or become parents…and Buffy does both at once) for Buffy. Death of innocence, if she had much innocence left. But her post-death slump works also as a more general depression metaphor - while also being a literal depression. It's the season when the metaphors shift and become unpredictable. It's not like the contained metaphor of boy goes evil after you shag him. The unsubtle metaphor of Willow's magic addiction might seem OTT...but I rather like the crassness of it. Everything is ugly, evne the metaphors, nothing is solid...metaphor and reality mingle.

The_Narrator

29-08-07, 01:54 PM

And Tara's death through Warren was somewhat lame if Joss intendedit to be a social message for gun control.
I think the idea of using a gun was not for some kind of a message, but just to deliberately be blunt. Tara and Willow had finally made up, they were in the middle of some cute we're-back-together-and-in-love-again talk, which makes us feel nice and fluffy in the audience, and then from nowhere, Tara dies. It was even more poignant that Warren didn't even mean to kill her, she died because a twisted, scared young man tried to take vengeance, and she got caught in the crossfire. That happens in real life so much (just thinking of the kid in Liverpool this week, went out outside to play, and got shot because there were some gangs fighting in the streets). Her death wasn't heroic like Buffy's in S5, it was completely meaningless and served no higher purpose, and I think this, as well as obviously the fact that Tara died, is what pushed Willow towards the dark magics.

And that theme of a lack of purpose, of meaninglessness is what I really enjoy about S6. Everyone is without direction, and fall into the traps of their own insecurities - a point carried forward in S7; the First Evil imo not really being much more than a device to expose and exploit characters' fears. I like that Spike is in love with Buffy, but it is in an obssessive and unhealthy way, that Buffy is depressed, that Xander can't confront his fears, that Willow gets hooked on magic. It makes the series so much more realistic. As Wolfie said above, it's about the transition into true adulthood , and I feel this comes from finding your place in life, something everyone stuggles through as a teenager, finding your identity, working out what you want to do, where are you 'are' as a person. And by the end of the season, there is some resolve - Buffy knows she wants to be alive, Dawn knows she is valued, Xander knows his importance in the group, even without superpowers and the like, Giles is needed (debatably), Willow chooses good magics over bad, and Spike seeks a soul. Yes, they all have a long way to go, but the season for me is about the meaninglessness of existence everyone feels from time to time, and overcoming that.

Willow's Tara

30-08-07, 12:48 PM

Well Season 6 is mostly my favourite, okay I will confess that it's because we see more of Tara in season 6 but there are other reasons I liked it. Season 5 came following that, sure some episiodes I wouldn't see again (Seeing Red-Grave), Gone bothered me a bit, probably because that social worker was a moron (And sounded pretty homphobic to me), Life Serial is a bit boring (I think that's the one I am thinking of), and The Doublemeat Palace episode isn't really something I would watch that often, especially when I am eating.

But Beginnings, Tablua Rasa, All the way, Once more with Feeling, Afterlife, Hell Bells...Um the episode where Willow and Tara made up (The name escapes me at this moment) and a couple of others were my favourites and good episodes.

About the shark demon, hey aleast it wasn't another big horny demon, I never seen a shark demon before.

neurosonic

02-09-07, 10:38 PM

Season 6 has always been a favourite of mine amongst the rest. I think mostly because it was the season that stepped on a lot more "real-life" issues than the paranormal ones ie, coping with an addiction, attempted rape, the death of someone by a human and not a demon etc. It just touched on a lot of new subjects. I found the show to of 'grown up' in a way.

x

vampmogs

03-09-07, 07:33 AM

I think the show did well at make it consisently darker as the season progressed, it liked that it got harder and harder for the characters because it made the end of the season and the triumphant moments within the season so much more rewarding. My favourite moment in the season is when Joyce tells Buffy she has a strength of world in her heart and that she just needs to find it again, "believe in yourself." Best moment for me hands down.

Ravynnia

03-09-07, 07:47 AM

Buffy coming back from the dead.. well as none of us (that I know of) have done that yet it's hard to make comparisons

Any time one experiences a supposedly life-changing experience -- graduation, marriage, conversion, what-have-you -- and then discovers that the life-changing experience changed nothing at all, but rather plunges one into more banality, more absurdity, more farcical situations than before -- can relate to Buffy's return from death. The engaging spouse turns out to be a slob, the winning child turns out to be a mean-spirited twit, the exciting job an endless routine with no way out . . . Buffy has had the ultimate experience & then has to go to work flipping burgers.

The first five seasons build the tragic myth & then when Buffy returns, the tragic resonance is gone, the myth stripped down, turned into a parody, and yet Buffy still has the same powers, the same tasks, the same friends. Nothing has changed except her -- and the prospect that she "came back wrong" is one that erotically excites her & horrifies her at once.

Buffy's return voids tragedy, until Tara is shot, when it's briefly restored, but only through Willow's redemption through Xander. Many people are made uncomfortable & frustrated -- they want the big moment, the Big Myth -- by this vacuum; others are interested in how to function in this excessively dis-enchanted Buffyverse, where the magic itself has vanished & turned narcotic, where the emotions are so extremely shallowed out that Buffy is prepared to recognize that she must be insane, because it IS insane to truly believe that one has been invested with superpowers & superfriends & chosen to save the world.

S6 ultimately gives away the game, much against the conscious design of Joss & Marti -- being a Slayer means, ultimately, being a vampire's partner in what, under the terms of the Myth, must be perversion. There are no more stories to tell about the Scoobies or magickal realms or world-ending conflicts after that. The core of vampiric romanticism, that animates the whole corpus (pun intended) of all the tales, pre-Jossian and post-Jossian, is the promise/threat of ultimate sexual violence -- of fu'king and being fu'ked, as violently as possible, in the respective positions of vampire & slayer. The Angel-arc kept the truth at a distance & couldn't close the distance, couldn't make the identity clear. The storytellers, having gone so far and let the cat out of the bag, could never really take it back; everything after, including S8, issues from aesthetic bad faith.

But since artists are always unbelievers, including in their own tales, it doesn't matter.

And that's what maks S6 so interesting to me.

KingofCretins

03-09-07, 07:47 AM

I don't care for Season 6 for a number of reasons. Primarily, the metaphoric failure of magic as an addiction, as Willow's descent into the corruption of power rationalized as an external event, something that "happened" to her as the victim of powers outside her control. Not only is it less dramatically compelling, it also contradicts the direction that the season was taking early on. Through "All the Way" and into the Musical, Willow's turn was based entirely in her character; her casual belief that she "is very seldom naughty" despite a history of nonchalantly vindictive behavior (on a small scale, but present -- tricking Cordy into deleting her program, letting Percy be afraid of her, preparing to curse Oz and Veruca).

Honestly, I think the magic addiction thing might have been created to serve, as all things seemed to in Season 6, Spuffy. Why? Because Marti liked to parallel Buffy and Willow, and since Buffy had an addiction story going on, Willow's story should be changed to an addiction story as well. That's the only thing I can figure to justify it.

The upside is that they end it fabulously... however DarkWillow was set up, I think she was pretty awesome by the time she was put in front of us. "Two to Go" and "Grave" are a great two parter. "Normal Again" was a brilliantly surreal one shot and well acted.

The core of vampiric romanticism, that animates the whole corpus (pun intended) of all the tales, pre-Jossian and post-Jossian, is the promise/threat of ultimate sexual violence -- of fu'king and being fu'ked, as violently as possible, in the respective positions of vampire & slayer. The Angel-arc kept the truth at a distance & couldn't close the distance, couldn't make the identity clear. The storytellers, having gone so far and let the cat out of the bag, could never really take it back; everything after, including S8, issues from aesthetic bad faith.

I don't think it is possible to be further off on what the purpose of this show was. From the beginning, it was not meant to be mythic other than around the edges, it was meant to be an articulation of what real life did. And real life is not about 'fu'king and being fu'ked, as violently as possible'. But, if I read it correctly about the artists being unbelievers, Joss probably didn't understand what he meant.

Even after one story arc and a stand alone, Season 8 is worth Season 6 and Season 7 put together.

vampmogs

03-09-07, 07:59 AM

I don't care for Season 6 for a number of reasons. Primarily, the metaphoric failure of magic as an addiction, as Willow's descent into the corruption of power rationalized as an external event, something that "happened" to her as the victim of powers outside her control. Not only is it less dramatically compelling, it also contradicts the direction that the season was taking early on. Through "All the Way" and into the Musical, Willow's turn was based entirely in her character; her casual belief that she "is very seldom naughty" despite a history of nonchalantly vindictive behavior (on a small scale, but present -- tricking Cordy into deleting her program, letting Percy be afraid of her, preparing to curse Oz and Veruca).

I agree. In Flooded Willow tells Giles in a cold and vindictive manner, "Your right the magics I used are very powerful, I'm very powerful and maybe it's not such a good idea for you to piss me off." I think this was a very blatant sign that this was in Willow all along, that she was in some ways power hungry and it made her dark. Then suddenly we have the magic addiction, which I guiltly did enjoy regardless if it didn't make a whole great deal of sense, which kind of threw this whole character growth out the window. You've listed a lot of instances when we saw these traits in Willow, and really we could list more, if Tough Love wasn't a foreshadowing of Tara's death and Willow coming after Warren, I don't know what is.

Honestly, I think the magic addiction thing might have been created to serve, as all things seemed to in Season 6, Spuffy. Why? Because Marti liked to parallel Buffy and Willow, and since Buffy had an addiction story going on, Willow's story should be changed to an addiction story as well. That's the only thing I can figure to justify it.

Mm perhaps, or perhaps they came across something gold and knew deep down that it didn't make a great deal of sense but decided to do it anyway? I actually think the whole idea is very clever, it is what I love about Btvs when they can blend the supernatural and real life so damn well, but for Willow's character it didn't make a great deal of sense. Apart of it I think was the writers being too scared to actually show that Willow had this vindictive nature about her, so instead they hid it with addiction. The same way in which they had her darkness with the idea that the bad magics had clouded her humanity and made her unable to feel, instead of just making her a real badass.

The upside is that they end it fabulously... however DarkWillow was set up, I think she was pretty awesome by the time she was put in front of us. "Two to Go" and "Grave" are a great two parter. "Normal Again" was a brilliantly surreal one shot and well acted.

DarkWillow is one of my most favourite characters ever, and is one of the main reasons why I could never say Btvs should have ended at the end of season five.

Wolfie Gilmore

03-09-07, 11:20 AM

Briefly, but back for more later... I didn't read Willow's descent into magic addiction as effected by an external force. It was her choice, and her fault. The magic was too powerful for her and took her over - but that's exactly the same as, say, heroin addiction. You choose to take heroin, knowing that it's addictive*, then the drugs take over your personality, you become subsumed in addiction. But just because the substance alters you, it doesn't mean it wasn't your fault for getting into it in the first place. And even if "your brain on drugs" looks like scrambled eggs or whatever, it's still your brain, and a path you chose.

That suddenly sounds very prim and PSA. Don't do drugs, kids! ;)

*I doubt there's many people who think it's not, ditto cigarettes, but those don't tend to make you quite so Amy Winehouseishly violent and dangerous...omg, Amy Winehouse is Dark Willow!)

vampmogs

03-09-07, 11:30 AM

Briefly, but back for more later... I didn't read Willow's descent into magic addiction as effected by an external force. It was her choice, and her fault. The magic was too powerful for her and took her over - but that's exactly the same as, say, heroin addiction. You choose to take heroin, knowing that it's addictive*, then the drugs take over your personality, you become subsumed in addiction. But just because the substance alters you, it doesn't mean it wasn't your fault for getting into it in the first place. And even if "your brain on drugs" looks like scrambled eggs or whatever, it's still your brain, and a path you chose.

That is a very interesting point. :)

Willow's power hungry nature caused her to keep taking the drugs and as a result she became addicted to it. If it wasn't for her urge to have power she would have never done drugs to the point she couldn't live without them so in many ways it wasn't going against her arc at all.

Wolfie Gilmore

03-09-07, 11:53 AM

That is a very interesting point. :)

Willow's power hungry nature caused her to keep taking the drugs and as a result she became addicted to it. If it wasn't for her urge to have power she would have never done drugs to the point she couldn't live without them so in many ways it wasn't going against her arc at all.

Yeah – my problem with Willow’s arc was never that it was out of character. I felt that her desire not to be the “side man”, her need to prove she’s worthy, that she’s somebody was driving it all the way through, and when the magicks “took over”, that was just the natural endpoint of her trajectory.

Other season 6 thoughts…

I’ve noticed recently that season 6 has some appallingly cheesy lines. All the seasons do, off and on, but I hadn’t noticed them til now with season 6 – the bleakness had me fooled. Some of the lines in Normal Again are totally cringeworthy - eg “You’re not in an institution, you have never been in an institution” as set up for Buffy’s reveal/retcon that she WAS in one. Ooh Willow, your dialogue is so full of the dramatic irony

And then there’s the fact that her parents “forgot”. Yeah, you do that don’t you, if your daughter gets locked up for believing in vampires? So, when you find out after a couple of years that vampires are real, you make no reference to it whatsoever!

However, in spite of the occasional cheesefest and patch of wonky plotting (OMWF being Xander’s fault? Does not work at all….cos there’s no hint during the ep that he knows what’s going on, and no one takes him up on being a murderer with all the burning up…)Season 6 remains one of my favourites. The Spuffy relationship is fascinating, because it can’t be reduced to a simple equation. It’s not Buffy = good, Spike = bad, or even Buffy = abusive, Spike = abused. Spike is not some long-suffering battered boyfriend – he’s a manipulative, opportunist, sexist, rapist shit at times…and yet, he can’t be reduced to an “evil thing” either. Sometimes he does help Buffy (and others), without any apparent ulterior motive, unless you count love as ulterior, which is rather too cynical even for me.

The magic addiction metaphor is, well, not the subtlest thing I’ve ever seen, but the OTT nature of it ties in with Ravyinna’s reading about – that Buffy’s (and the scoobies’) life has become absurd, and so the metaphors move into that territory too. There’s something…obscene about season 6, and I don’t just mean all the boning in public places (though, seriously, how do they undo their zippers so quickly…vampire and slayer speed?). The obsenity lies in the “hard and bright and violent” approach. The season often isn’t dark in visual terms – episodes like Doublemeat Palace bring us into gross-out technicolour, where you can see too much, and things are too in your face (giant penis). Much of season 6 is like a Disney nightmare, OMWF being the pinnacle of this, and that’s part of why I like it. True darkness isn’t monsters in the night, it’s the banality of evil and/or banks, plumbing, fast food, the kids that you bullied at school coming back to haunt you because they’ve now got very well paid jobs at Microsoft while you’re still a struggling bohemian slayer slinging burgers.

Then, when it comes to Grave, faith is restored. And by the time the hymn of St Francis is well under way, I’m pretty much on my knees thanking heaven fasting for the love of a good carpenter ;) The scene where Buffy and Dawn are walking through the garden (Nu!Eden?) always gives me a lump of hope in my throat. Pity they don’t really serve the Dawn and Buffy relationship properly in season 7. I felt like the idea of them doing a buddy-sister-cop-mentor-pupil thing could have worked brilliantly. Lots of teasing and irritation but also a strong bond, with Dawn as book-gal to Buffy’s action hero. Kind of like Angel and Wesley, but with more name-calling and less sexual tension (one would hope).

vampmogs

03-09-07, 12:06 PM

Yeah – my problem with Willow’s arc was never that it was out of character. I felt that her desire not to be the “side man”, her need to prove she’s worthy, that she’s somebody was driving it all the way through, and when the magicks “took over”, that was just the natural endpoint of her trajectory.

Wonderfully said. I especially liked her line, "six years as a sideman now I get to be the slayer" because it is very telling of her character. Remember in Fear Itself when she snaps at Buffy, telling her that she isn't her "sidekick." Or in Tough Love when she and Buffy dispute whether she could take on Glory;

BUFFY: Even I'm no match for her you know that
WILLOW: But maybe I am

and;

WILLOW: This isn't your choice it's mine!

Willow at times showed that she could be frustrated with being Buffy's "sidekick" probably because she did have all this power.

And then there’s the fact that her parents “forgot”. Yeah, you do that don’t you, if your daughter gets locked up for believing in vampires? So, when you find out after a couple of years that vampires are real, you make no reference to it whatsoever!

This has to be one of the worst things ever on the show, I utterly cannot stand it. Aside from the fact no one would ever forgot they put their daughter in a mental institution, Joyce never seems not to worry when in The Witch when under the spell Buffy tells her she is a vampire slayer, or in Bad Eggs when Buffy tells her she saves the world from vampires. The only thing that I could possibly ever say fit with this story was when in Ted, Ted threatens to show Buffy's diary to Joyce. He says something along the lines of her spending her best dating years behind the wall of an institution which fires Buffy so much up, it could explain why she looses it and beats the shit out of him.

Then, when it comes to Grave, faith is restored. And by the time the hymn of St Francis is well under way, I’m pretty much on my knees thanking heaven fasting for the love of a good carpenter ;) The scene where Buffy and Dawn are walking through the garden (Nu!Eden?) always gives me a lump of hope in my throat. Pity they don’t really serve the Dawn and Buffy relationship properly in season 7. I felt like the idea of them doing a buddy-sister-cop-mentor-pupil thing could have worked brilliantly. Lots of teasing and irritation but also a strong bond, with Dawn as book-gal to Buffy’s action hero. Kind of like Angel and Wesley, but with more name-calling and less sexual tension (one would hope).

It started in season seven but like everything else good in season seven, quickly vanished before too long.

holypotatoes

04-09-07, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore:
The magic addiction metaphor is, well, not the subtlest thing I’ve ever seen, but the OTT nature of it ties in with Ravyinna’s reading about – that Buffy’s (and the scoobies’) life has become absurd, and so the metaphors move into that territory too. There’s something…obscene about season 6, and I don’t just mean all the boning in public places (though, seriously, how do they undo their zippers so quickly…vampire and slayer speed?). The obsenity lies in the “hard and bright and violent” approach. The season often isn’t dark in visual terms – episodes like Doublemeat Palace bring us into gross-out technicolour, where you can see too much, and things are too in your face (giant penis). Much of season 6 is like a Disney nightmare, OMWF being the pinnacle of this, and that’s part of why I like it. True darkness isn’t monsters in the night, it’s the banality of evil and/or banks, plumbing, fast food, the kids that you bullied at school coming back to haunt you because they’ve now got very well paid jobs at Microsoft while you’re still a struggling bohemian slayer slinging burgers.

I think it was vampire and slayer speed! How is a man able to unzip his pants that fast without catching something in it is beyond me. :lol: The main reason I'm replying to this post was the "giant penis". Now I've watched this show and this season over and over again and NEVER did I see a giant penis so I was wondering where exactly do we see this giant penis, if ever? :D

To the moderators... this wasn't supposed to be spamming this just happened to catch my eye while I was reading and now I'm curious. :p

Wolfie Gilmore

04-09-07, 10:34 AM

I think it was vampire and slayer speed! How is a man able to unzip his pants that fast without catching something in it is beyond me. :lol: The main reason I'm replying to this post was the "giant penis". Now I've watched this show and this season over and over again and NEVER did I see a giant penis so I was wondering where exactly do we see this giant penis, if ever? :D

To the moderators... this wasn't supposed to be spamming this just happened to catch my eye while I was reading and now I'm curious. :p

I meant Penis head lady in Doublemeat Palace. Big big penis. And you know what they say...double meat is double sweet.

And I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

selenspuffy

16-09-07, 12:22 AM

I love season 6 almost as much as season 5 and 7. Later seasons are my faves but I find it hard to separate one from another.

During the last three seasons I started to identify with Buffy. Till season 5 I watched the show through eyes of Joyce and Giles. Buffy's problems seemed artificial and forced to me. Then in season 5 they became real, without playing at give-away.

I love that writers have finally started to talk about real problems (albeit metaphorically). This approach made characters truly compelling.

I have never thought that way but it's completely true, agree with you!
Not that Ive seen through the eyes of Joyce and Giles but that problems became real for real:D I mean they were there since the beginning of S1 but never shown this much until s6 and its so perfect to feel like youre in the Scoobie Gang.(feeling like having those problems just like you feel their happinesses!)

basakbangel

16-09-07, 12:18 PM

I don't think that "real" problems started after season 5 or 6. There always had been really hard problems for Buffy and Scoobie. Everybody had to handle everything. But in one point I agree with you: After Joyce and Giles the problems seemed to be harder and harder, that's right but that doesn't mean that there hadn't been any of them in early seasons. After Buffy's death and Joyce's; things seemed to be difficult and some kinda thing that can never be handled. And yeah, they couldn't give them away..

To gather my thoughts, I think real problems had always been there for buffy as the main point of the show. But It seemed to us as a "real" problem in after seasons, just because we see the scoobie handling it by theirselves.

Lily

23-09-07, 04:17 PM

Well I'm a Spike fan so it was great to see a lot more about his character and he opened a lot of windows into the differences between vampires. He's the reason I started watching in the first place.

I loved the postal Buffy - was way more believable than the pouty 'but...i'm...*cry*...a...*cry*...slayer..and...it' s...so...last....season waaaaahh!!!' Buffy. She got a little dirtier in this season - it was fun.

Loved how all the other characters really grew up. Especially Xander who was really starting to bug me.

Naturally it had some of the best eps in the series with Barganing 1n2, OMWF and Tabula Rasa. The catoony kind of stuff like the shark and kittens .... well the kittens were just plain weird but the shark went with the out of place feel of the eps at the time.

Plus some serious spuffy action for those of us with a thing for the souless breed didn't hurt ;)

All in all season 6 was just a lot of fun.

And I'll never forget the scene in Tabula Rasa where Giles is swordfighting the skeleton guy and yelling at Anya to get another book. I don't think I'll ever look at bunnies the same way again.

chelsie

24-09-07, 06:40 PM

I loved season 6- I love that it was a dark season and not the usual fluff.

As for SPike being over used- I'd go with that sorta but I didn't begrudge him for it...James is very very good actor who really did seem to give it that 110%..so it didn't bother me that he was on more. Besides Spike very popular and you tend to keep your babies.:)

They should have cut down the porn though.

Kiera

30-09-07, 12:18 PM

Honestly? I think it was the sex relationship with Spike and Buffy. Everything got hot and heavy - literally - and it just seemed like the show was taking on some major issues as well, not just with those two, but everyone. Everything was just more in depth and the plotlines were more loaded with the issues of life and the drama that came with it, IMO.

omri

30-09-07, 01:15 PM

Cinderela

30-09-07, 05:21 PM

You do have a point there. May be I just couldn't relate to that season because of all that darkness. it was really depressing.

But that's why I love it! LIFE as the Big Bad. Sometimes, life IS dark and depressing. Sometimes you make incredible errors in judgment. Sometimes you have to stand by and watch your friends make terrible mistakes. Sometimes you are helpless and not even in control of your own life.

I think S6 was important to the character development. I can't imagine the gang taking on The First as they all were at the end of S5. They had to mature and survive some life issues before they could be ready to handle The First.

omri

30-09-07, 07:20 PM

But that's why I love it! LIFE as the Big Bad. Sometimes, life IS dark and depressing. Sometimes you make incredible errors in judgment. Sometimes you have to stand by and watch your friends make terrible mistakes. Sometimes you are helpless and not even in control of your own life.

I think S6 was important to the character development. I can't imagine the gang taking on The First as they all were at the end of S5. They had to mature and survive some life issues before they could be ready to handle The First.

It was definetly importent for the devolpment of the charecter. But there was something strange about it. From one side you see all of this darkness and from the other you see demons play pocker over kittens. It was really odd.

sueworld

30-09-07, 07:29 PM

omri

03-10-07, 08:14 AM

I don't think it was a 100% successful, but at least they tried.

It wasn't 100% successful when it should have been. She just got transfered to a new network! don't you think they should have make some affort to make the episodes a little bit better.

sueworld

03-10-07, 11:45 AM

I thinks they did the best they could under the circumstances. Lord there were (and still are) a lot worse shows out there!

Buffy still looks like Shakespeare compared to some of them. :roll:

Wolfie Gilmore

03-10-07, 12:14 PM

It was definetly importent for the devolpment of the charecter. But there was something strange about it. From one side you see all of this darkness and from the other you see demons play pocker over kittens. It was really odd.

That's the joy of Buffy for me. The absurd alongside the dark. Kitten poker is genius. Though I think my favourite kitty related lines come in season 7...

CLEM: Cutting way back on the cat. Cholestorol. [off buffy's look] Morals!

alexa

04-10-07, 11:40 AM

I agree. When you go through life you rapidly learn that life isn't just black and white, but filled with many shades of grey.

Buffys one of the few shows where the characters are allowed to age and develop, make mistakes and then learn from them.

Season six was as complex and dark as real life can be, and I applaud the writers for trying to do that. I don't think it was a 100% successful, but at least they tried.

Wow that was so simple, but precisely the way I feel. I think it's great they attempted it, but on many levels it just didn't work for me. It was a different show.. and I'm pretty sure I've posted this somewhere else so I wont go on :p

And as for Spike 'sucking up screen time'. Nah.

Although I do think he did suck up screen time away from the scooby core. Having said that maybe that was the right choice considering the storyline, but it seemed to me they never fully came back from that untill season 8.

basakbangel

04-10-07, 07:57 PM

I agree. When you go through life you rapidly learn that life isn't just black and white, but filled with many shades of grey.

Buffys one of the few shows where the characters are allowed to age and develop, make mistakes and then learn from them.

Season six was as complex and dark as real life can be, and I applaud the writers for trying to do that. I don't think it was a 100% successful, but at least they tried.

Yes, I agree with you. And yeah, I wasn't successful liked It's planned but basicly, we get the main point of season 6 and the developments. But also I'd like to add that, Season 6 wasn't just the only example of complex things and the problems we may face. Every season had it's own problems for each characters. I think season 5 is also very hard and painful season, Buffy getting used to death of Joyce and responsibily of all so these weren't easy. I also think that season 6 had the hardest ones for each character. Willow's suffering. Anya and Xander's breaking up. Buffy is confused with everthing I tries to "feel". But to mention what I mean season 6 wasn't the only one.

basakbangel

04-10-07, 07:58 PM

I agree. When you go through life you rapidly learn that life isn't just black and white, but filled with many shades of grey.

Buffys one of the few shows where the characters are allowed to age and develop, make mistakes and then learn from them.

Season six was as complex and dark as real life can be, and I applaud the writers for trying to do that. I don't think it was a 100% successful, but at least they tried.

Yes, I agree with you. And yeah, It wasn't successful liked It's planned(though It was pretty OK.) but basicly , we get the main point of season 6 and the developments. But also I'd like to add that, Season 6 wasn't just the only example of complex things and the problems we may face. Every season had it's own problems for each characters. I think season 5 is also very hard and painful season, Buffy getting used to death of Joyce and responsibily of all so these weren't easy. I also think that season 6 had the hardest ones for each character. Willow's suffering. Anya and Xander's breaking up. Buffy is confused with everthing I tries to "feel". But to mention what I mean season 6 wasn't the only one.

omri

04-10-07, 08:14 PM

Yes, I agree with you. And yeah, It wasn't successful liked It's planned(though It was pretty OK.) but basicly , we get the main point of season 6 and the developments. But also I'd like to add that, Season 6 wasn't just the only example of complex things and the problems we may face. Every season had it's own problems for each characters. I think season 5 is also very hard and painful season, Buffy getting used to death of Joyce and responsibily of all so these weren't easy. I also think that season 6 had the hardest ones for each character. Willow's suffering. Anya and Xander's breaking up. Buffy is confused with everthing I tries to "feel". But to mention what I mean season 6 wasn't the only one.

You are so right. Season 6 wasn't the only season where the charecters were hurting. It was through out the season... It wasn't like that, where the charecters all together got through the bottum moments of life.
It is so strange how a season could be this dark and yet sometimes can be a bit foolish.

Tigger96

07-10-07, 10:10 PM

Season Six was NOT my favorite season by a long shot, but I won't say that I despised it, either. Although there are many aspects of the season that were disturbing, some personally for me, there were also a lot of very good eps. I particularly liked OMWF, but I have a weakness for musicals as it is. I love the laughs afforded in 'Tabula Rasa', and I also like 'Grave'. 'Doublemeat Palace' is really the only one that I don't particularly like. I'm also not really fond of 'Dead Things'. Now there are a couple of eps that I don't enjoy watching, but it's because I relate to them in a very personal way...I very much relate to Dawn in 'Smashed' & 'Wrecked' (the two are kind of like a two-parter in my mind..)

Okay, now that I've gotten particular eps out of the way, let's move on to why I think this was a good and powerful season. LIFE is the big-bad this year, and I think that the show did a really good job of portraying how big and bad life can really be. This season our Scoobs, our friends, were forced to face the very real, everyday hardships and ugliness that life offers; and this time they have to be the adults...there is no one else to bail them out. They drew away from each other and were very alone, even though surrounded by the people who love them. They were all so wrapped up in their own miserable existances that they didn't notice what was going on with the others.

Dawn was being neglected, so she turns to theivery...the classic teenage "I'll get attention one way or the other, good or bad" reaction to neglect and anger. This was her call for help, and no one heard a thing...just as Giles sang in OMWF.

Buffy was in a state of deep depression -- she was in a pit of blackness, trying to remember how to live, she felt as if she were in hell, and so she turned to a very dark, abusive, and harmful relationship. I did not enjoy this relationship in any way shape or form, but I understand it. Life is painful and hard, and when you can't figure out how to deal with it and you hate yourself, you sometimes put yourself into a position that brings even more pain and hatred.

Xander has finally grown up, but he is still struggling with the ramifications of years of verbal, if not physical, abuse by his parents. He has never had a good example of what a "man" should be, and he is surrounded by women, so he fumbles blindly. He's finally getting married, but his fears are brought to light so drastically that he ruins the best relationship he's ever had and has his own moments of darkness.

Willow has been heading down this dark path for quite awhile now. We've all seen it coming. However, I believe that she maintained a sense of "self" longer than people are giving her credit for, before taking that final plunge. I remember watching her kill the deer in 'Bargaining' -- the act was painful for her. But it was just one more step into the blackness of her addiction...to do whatever is necessary to feed the need.

And, on that note, a couple of replies....The only thing I found a bit tedious was the drug metaphor. It wore just a bit thin in places. It was a very interesting idea that was over-worked by the time it aired. Willow had been having troubles for too long. We saw it start a bit too far back so...they had to grind the knife tip in just a far as a result. It didn't ring as true as it should've IMO. You get worse and worse and worse and let's drag this out a bit more and then worse...all of sudden you've got the absurd happening because there's no other way to play the point. Another result of writing a story with a finite ending and then trying to pick it back up.The thing about addictions is that they can drag on and on, sometimes for a very long time. Sometimes the absurd really does happen. Especially when the people in your life are in deial about what is really happening to you. Then you hook up with people that introduce you to stronger stuff that brings a greater numbness, and things begin to really spin out of control. Tara was the first to notice how problematic Willow's use of magic had become, and she was the only one that did anything about it. She first spoke to Willow, and when that didn't work she did what was necessary and left.

I agree with vampmogs that the circumstances of Tara's death was very much planned in the beginning. Joss actually mentions that they specificially state that guns are "never useful" numerous times because they were planning on Buffy getting shot. And I agree with The Narrator that the meaningless, suddenness, and absolute horror-filled tragic way that Tara is killed is a huge catalyst for pushing Willow over the edge into real blackness. Our guys are used to dealing with evil, soulless beings from other worlds and archaic weapons. The sudden horror of the shooting is mind-boggling. And this also happens in Life -- something tragic comes along and the addict jumps off the wagon into a much deeper darkness than before.

Okay, I'll hop off my bandwagon now and move on to other things. While I didn't like the Trio, there was a simplicity to them that I think worked for the season. A couple nerds from high school trying to prove their worth by gaining power and being annoying little gnats in the Slayer's hair...you think that Jonathan would have learned his lesson after 'Superstar', but once a needy nerd, always a needy nerd. They are powerless little freaks, but powerless little freaks are a part of life, and even they can go psycho every now and then. They kinda bring an interesting twist...the only reason they were able to cause so much trouble is because the Scoobs were divided and wrapped up in their own little worlds.... I also enjoyed the 'cheesiness' of the Loan "Shark" and I got a kick out of the kitten poker. It was absurd and silly and a bit cheezy, but in the midst of all the angst filling the season, a little absudity is a nice, if brief, respite.

I apologize for going on so long...guess I got a little carried away..

cheryl4ba

08-10-07, 08:10 PM

I really didn't care for season 6 at all, thought it was the worst season, hands down. That was until season 7 rolled around. At least in season 6, as depressed as they were, the characters still felt like the same people we had grown to love over the years. I didn't always like the mistakes the characters made but I did understand how they got where they were.

If I thought Spike chewed up valuable screen time that belonged to our Scoobies and I did, it ended up being minimal in comparrison to the hoard of Potentials that sucked the air time up in heaving gulps.
So in retrospect, season 6 really wasn't the worst after all. It was depressing and gloom and doom at every turn but it is 100 times better than the season that followed it, imo.

spuffylove147

08-10-07, 10:29 PM

I think that season six was real. Most people who get down on it will say that it's depressing and the characters aren't the same and it was wrong for who they were, but I happen to think that's bull####.

If you've ever known someone that is truely depressed (like Buffy especially) they do become different people. They do things you never would have thought they would. They act like different people because they look at the world and at life completely differently therefore they act completely differently.

I think everything in this season is how people would act with certain things. Another thing that season six downers will say is that evil Willow sucked, but that's another real thing. I mean clearly people can't use a a temple to destroy the world if their grieving but they can get very destructive, to themselves and to others. I mean especially if someone killed a person you loved you might go a little nuts on their asses. I just don't think that's too crazy.

I also agree with Tigger96. Sometimes life is the big bad and i applaud the fact that they explored that in season six. It was kind of like goodbye to the metaphor and hello to what they're actually talking about. Instead of a messed up relationship because he goes evil when I sleep with him, lets just have a messed up relationship, instead of turning into seacreatures because of drugs, lets actually get addicted to something (albeit magic) and go through the withdrawl and the relapses of it all.

I'm not saying it's the best thing on the show ever but I hate that people get down on it so badly...and don't even get me started on people getting down on season 7...especially because that's not what this thread is for...