What do you think about Riley ? [Archive]

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Vyse

11-07-07, 12:57 AM

Hey everyone,

I have a question for you all. What do you think about Riley Finn ? Usually his character is definitely not loved (at least in my experience :p ). In the past I was told by many that his story with Buffy could have never been as good as Buffy/Angel, that he's boring, uninteresting, not "dark enough" for Buffy and too macho-like or arrogant and unable to accept that Buffy was a better fighter and stronger than him.

I'm one of the few who like him. Not that I think he's flawless, of course. I do acknowledge that his attitude can be annoying, especially when he didn't know who Buffy really was. And I do get mad at him quite a few times myself (don't get me even started on the way he left), but I think he changed during the two seasons he was on the show, and I believe he wasn't that bad for Buffy after all, despite the horrible way he left her in season 5... what do you think ?

Paradise

11-07-07, 01:10 AM

Riley made me nuts beyond belief. Couldn't stand the man. He was totally icky to me. She needed a little bad in her man, he wasn't it. Angel and Spike were her true loves. :)

Ahm Shere

11-07-07, 01:15 AM

I didn't like Riley at all. I thought he was a dull character. I didn't think he had good storylines, I thought the character was quite pointless, and was only used as a love interest for Buffy. I think they tried to make him too...'important'. The Initiative? Pointless storyline, only created, I bet, for the Riley character. Riley just annoyed the hell out of me, and if Ben reads this, he's gonna kill me. But it's true. I don't think I have ever disliked a character more. (Apart from Angel)

Pandora's_Box

11-07-07, 01:20 AM

Really boring, everything he does is so annoying...yuck

Jenni Lou

11-07-07, 01:39 AM

I like him. BUt you knew that already. ;)

Angel with Buffy was what was boring to me. I think people didn't like Riley for two main reasons: 1) he wasn't Angel and 2) because he was so involved in the Initiative storyline that most everyone can agree was full of lameness.

Vyse

11-07-07, 01:55 AM

LOL... I must be the only one on earth (even among those who like him) who liked the Initiative storyline too... I didn't like Adam, actually. I would have wanted Maggie Walsh to be the true bad guy. But I didn't dislike the Initiative thing. In all honesty, that's exactly what, in my eyes, made Riley a good match for Buffy... he had her very same "job". Ok, for him it was a job, while for her it was destiny (which she didn't really want, at first). But to me it was something they could share. So I kind of liked it.

redrevo

11-07-07, 01:59 AM

I really enjoyed him. He was an ordinary person, healthy for Buffy, and his character really did develop. As I've mentioned elsewhere, he started out as the "one mindless automaton, coming up," but with Buffy's and the Scoobies' influence he learned to do things his own way and not simply obey. He was nearly always looking out for what was best for Buffy, until Season 5's vamp-sucking, of course, but that was due to a lack of communication and Buffy not letting him in. I think Xander's speech in "Into the Woods" really summed up their gradually ending relationship - which didn't have to end if Buffy had only realized what she was doing earlier, or perhaps started running earlier ;) . One thing I didn't like about Riley was that he was a bit uncomfortable with Buffy being stronger than him, that was IMO at least slightly sexist (although it could also be chalked up to a "the zeppo" feeling of not contributing). Riley was at his best when he wasn't under Professor Walsh. I liked his character development from This Year's Girl on, when he realizes the Initiative isn't all harmless and government isn't always protecting people the way they say.

I also think people didn't like seeing Buffy with Riley because (like Jenni Lou said) they wanted Buffy with Angel or a demon, either for the "unrequited love factor," or the constant angst...neither of which I particularly enjoy.

Pandora's_Box

11-07-07, 02:34 AM

I think people didn't like Riley for two main reasons: 1) he wasn't Angel and 2) because he was so involved in the Initiative storyline that most everyone can agree was full of lameness.

I definetely agree with the reason number two, but being a spuffy fan and not really a bangel fan (especially in season 3 with the all "we can see each other" blah bla blah) I tend do disagree with reason number one...

Jenni Lou

11-07-07, 03:16 AM

Well, it's why I shelled two reasons; I tend to think it's either one or other, if not a mixture of both. I've had enough Riley discussions to come to that conclusion. :p I also like Spike/Buffy as well but it certainly wasn't a healthy relationship. :D However I liked Riley/Buffy too. It's just the whole Angel pairing that I wasn't feeling. It felt....juvenile to me. That's just my opinion. I can fully respect others who don't have th same point of view. ;) No bashing me please. :D

Vyse

11-07-07, 03:46 AM

Awww poor hon :1pet: No bashing don't worry :D

I wonder what you guys think of the Riley/Angel fight in The Yoko Factor :D I suppose most of you were on Angel's side (yeah... even Spuffy shippers). As for me, I actually wasn't on anyone's side. I simply enjoyed watching it... Oh wait, I was on someone's side... Buffy's! I loved her reaction to it :p

SarahRegi

11-07-07, 04:53 AM

i also agree he was so dull and boring. all that initiative stuff just bored me as hell and everytime i watch my dvds i tend to skip over those episodes. heck! i would much rather prefer even Ben(the other half of Glory) over Riley.

LRae12

11-07-07, 05:10 AM

I think people didn't like Riley for two main reasons: 1) he wasn't Angel and 2) because he was so involved in the Initiative storyline that most everyone can agree was full of lameness.

I actually agree with you that those are the two main reasons why most people dislike Riley...I of course, am not most people.

I disliked Riley not for the Initiative storyline (which grows on you) or for the fact that he wasn't Angel (seeing the seasons many times through, that wears off as well.) I disliked him because he is such a bitch. And I say that meaning it.

He started out ok in S4, but in S5 he turned into a woman. 'Buffy doesn't love me enough', 'Buffy doesn't need me enough', 'Buffy doesn't breakdown and cry like a baby for me'...wah! wah! :cry2: Give me a freakin' break, Riley. You knowingly became involved with a strong independent super hero who was STRONGER than you, and you couldn't handle it. As soon as you perceived yourself as 'weaker' after your super-drugs went away, you started acting like a bitch-boy, because YOU couldn't handle your girlfriend being stronger than you! :cussing:

I never agreed that Buffy didn't love Riley...I think she did, he just wanted her in an un-healthy way...he needed her to be weak to make him feel more like a man, and for THAT, I hated him. The nerve of him to feel all insecure when she told him that she cried about Joyce when he wasn't around seriously pissed me off. Some people are just made that way. I know for me, personally, when I'm really upset or worried about something - especially, you know, a loved one dying, I try to keep it all in too and be strong for everyone around me...but eventually, when I'm alone, I'll break down. My significant other knows that - he doesn't say, 'oh you don't love me because you don't cry like a wet rag on my shoulder'...NO!

Riley was weak, plain and simple...I mean, HELLO, how unhealthy do you have to be to go and let a vampire suck your blood just to be needed...gosh, give me a break. Stupid big...:censored:

I guess you all have no question as to which way I answered the poll...:p

And I would never bash you Jenni Lou...:hug: :D - Just Riley! :lol:

Jenni Lou

11-07-07, 05:36 AM

You make some good points, LRae and I won't argue with that one bit! He didn't get a little clingy and needed in s5; I guess that was probably the best way the writers thought they could write off him quickly into the season. I am sure they had better things to get on with as far as Joyce's death and Glory and Dawn goes. So I actually agree.

However, Buffy has never been an open person and she most certainly does close others off. I am sure Riley thought he could penetrate that barrier, and when he couldn't, he whined and whined away. :p So, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with her being stronger than him as much as it does with her shutting him out.

Vyse

11-07-07, 05:46 AM

He started out ok in S4, but in S5 he turned into a woman. 'Buffy doesn't love me enough', 'Buffy doesn't need me enough', 'Buffy doesn't breakdown and cry like a baby for me'...wah! wah! :cry2:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I must admit that I laughed my head off reading this :) :D

Give me a freakin' break, Riley. You knowingly became involved with a strong independent super hero who was STRONGER than you, and you couldn't handle it. As soon as you perceived yourself as 'weaker' after your super-drugs went away, you started acting like a bitch-boy, because YOU couldn't handle your girlfriend being stronger than you! :cussing:

This is not the first time I read this argument against him... To some extent, I think you are right. He had a problem with it, at least in the beginning... but I think it was more complex than that ;)

he needed her to be weak to make him feel more like a man, and for THAT, I hated him. The nerve of him to feel all insecure when she told him that she cried about Joyce when he wasn't around seriously pissed me off.

You know... I actually loved him for that... it made him human :(

Some people are just made that way. I know for me, personally, when I'm really upset or worried about something - especially, you know, a loved one dying, I try to keep it all in too and be strong for everyone around me...but eventually, when I'm alone, I'll break down. My significant other knows that - he doesn't say, 'oh you don't love me because you don't cry like a wet rag on my shoulder'...NO!

This is the only part I disagree with... you see, as I understood it, Riley wasn't hurt by the fact that Buffy didn't cry when he was near her. He was hurt by the fact that she told Spike first instead of him. If she wanted to be strong and not show her emotions, that's fine... but Spike was her enemy back then. Was he more worthy of Buffy's trust than Riley ? In all honesty, if I had been in Riley's place I would have been hurt too :(

Riley was weak, plain and simple...I mean, HELLO, how unhealthy do you have to be to go and let a vampire suck your blood just to be needed...gosh, give me a break. Stupid big...:censored:

I agree here. That was truly wrong and it hurt Buffy a lot. But when people suffer they do stupid things. And Riley screwed up badly because he was suffering.

I guess you all have no question as to which way I answered the poll...:p

LOL :D I can imagine ;)

LRae12

11-07-07, 05:57 AM

This is the only part I disagree with... you see, as I understood it, Riley wasn't hurt by the fact that Buffy didn't cry when he was near her. He was hurt by the fact that she told Spike first instead of him. If she wanted to be strong and not show her emotions, that's fine... but Spike was her enemy back then. Was he more worthy of Buffy's trust than Riley ? In all honesty, if I had been in Riley's place I would have been hurt too :(

See, that's where Riley's and idiot...he knew Spike had the hots for Buffy, and he should have realized that Spike was twisting things around to make it look like she trusted him just to get under Riley's skin...what a putz...

Buffy didn't trust Spike, he just happend to come to kill her when she was crying about Joyce. Plus, she said 'I don't want to talk about it' to Spike when he asked her what was wrong, so it's not like she told him herself...his stalking her around her house all the time, he probably picked that up on his own by hearing little tidbits of information.

Vyse

11-07-07, 06:08 AM

See, that's where Riley's and idiot...he knew Spike had the hots for Buffy, and he should have realized that Spike was twisting things around to make it look like she trusted him just to get under Riley's skin...what a putz...

I get what you mean. But put yourself in Riley's place. He does not know what we, as viewers of the show, know. In his position, it's extremely easy to be fooled, especially by someone as clever as Spike is at manipulating people. Spike can be extremely convincing when he wants to be. Riley was already insecure of his own. And Buffy had rejected his help more than once. Just think at Buffy's reaction when he had offered to ask his army mates to try to find out who Glory was. She almost jumped at him. Put all these factors together and I kind of understand him :cutecry:

ThePoet's<3

11-07-07, 06:44 AM

I liked the Ruffy 'Ship because it showed Buffy that sometimes "nice normal guys" can be just as monstrous in their behaviors.

Jenni Lou

11-07-07, 07:09 AM

That's a nice way to look at, ThePoet's<3. :) After all, the series was about metaphors about life in general, as most sci-fi and fantasy is. I had never thought about the relationship like that before and it is a wonderful observation. There's no escaping the human condition.

Goddess Guidance

11-07-07, 07:18 AM

I enjoyed his story line. It made sense that Buffy would go for the normal guy that time around. Although it turned out that he was into the demon world also. I don't think it would be believable if every guy Buffy dated was secure with her strength. It's more real to see someone struggle with it, atleast at first. Now, I'm not saying that she should have stayed with him. Not if he wasn't going to man up and accept her for what she was. If I'm remembering correctly, Buffy was also shutting him out...All in all Riley was a good guy. Their relationship needing some tweaking before it could work.

Salvation

11-07-07, 08:57 AM

I feel sorry for Riley i,m a crazy Bangel fan & i think everybody know's about it But i think Riley was very good to Buffy,he was kind loving & really care's about her.I liked their relationship simply bcuz he was honest about his feelings for Buffy,yah he can be annoying sometimes but that really breaks my heart for him bcuz she didnt love him back the way he love's her but hey that's Buffy we're talking about.

I hated the he left Buffy & i was more mad in the way he's back showing off his stupid Wife i was like WTF?

In general it was a healthy ralationship for Buffy but as we all know it didnt work for so many reason but the main reason was he sometimes felt that he cant beat her & as he's the MACHO MAN he didnt accepted it i guess.

spike4buffy

11-07-07, 09:49 AM

I thought Riley was an okay person when i first watched the show but as i started looking back at his actions i realized hes just not a guy i like. i didn't find him funny or interesting and i couldn't feel sorry for him.

With his relationship with Buffy i thought they were cute season 4 but then season 5 all of his Issues drove me crazy. BUFFY is the Slayer she was trained to stay strong and too keep her emotions tucked away because Buffy had to stay strong for her friends and Family and Riley just couldn't understand the whole slayer deal. He really peeved me off.

vampmogs

11-07-07, 03:22 PM

Riley made me nuts beyond belief. Couldn't stand the man. He was totally icky to me. She needed a little bad in her man, he wasn't it. Angel and Spike were her true loves. :)

So Riley was 'icky' because he wasn't bad and was a normal human guy, but Buffy macking on two undead corpses isn't 'icky?' I really don't understand that.

He started out ok in S4, but in S5 he turned into a woman. 'Buffy doesn't love me enough', 'Buffy doesn't need me enough', 'Buffy doesn't breakdown and cry like a baby for me'...wah! wah! :cry2: Give me a freakin' break, Riley. You knowingly became involved with a strong independent super hero who was STRONGER than you, and you couldn't handle it. As soon as you perceived yourself as 'weaker' after your super-drugs went away, you started acting like a bitch-boy, because YOU couldn't handle your girlfriend being stronger than you! :cussing:

In all fairness to Riley I think if anyone out of Buffy's relationships was acting like the cry baby needy bitch it would have been Spike. Riley didn't stalk Buffy's house, follow Buffy around when she told him to get lost, tell Buffy she loved him like a pathetic needy loser when she states over and over again that she didn't, and Spike actually had tears in his eyes when Buffy yells at him in Who We Were. If anyone was the pathetic cry baby bitch here, I'd say that title has to go to Spike hands down.

I never agreed that Buffy didn't love Riley...I think she did, he just wanted her in an un-healthy way...he needed her to be weak to make him feel more like a man, and for THAT, I hated him.

No he wanted Buffy to confide in him because he was her boyfriend, not a man. Riley had problems with Buffy being strong but at the same time liked it as well, it was hard because he had no mission of his own; something he was used to from his commando days. It is natural anyone would find it hard to deal, especially when your ex work buddies blatantly taunt you about being "the missions boyfriend, the mission's true love." Riley was the kind of guy who needed to act out and do something, that isn't a bad thing. He did a pretty big thing tossing everything that once mattered to him away for Buffy, who in return pretty much ignored him. Xander, Joyce and according to Buffy "Everyone who isn't me" can't be wrong; it was evident Buffy was pushing away.

The nerve of him to feel all insecure when she told him that she cried about Joyce when he wasn't around seriously pissed me off. Some people are just made that way. I know for me, personally, when I'm really upset or worried about something - especially, you know, a loved one dying, I try to keep it all in too and be strong for everyone around me...but eventually, when I'm alone, I'll break down. My significant other knows that - he doesn't say, 'oh you don't love me because you don't cry like a wet rag on my shoulder'...NO!

It was a build up of many things, that was just another thing that upset Riley. Can we really blame Riley for wanting to be there to support his girlfriend; at the end of the day that's what he is getting bashed for here.

Riley was weak, plain and simple...I mean, HELLO, how unhealthy do you have to be to go and let a vampire suck your blood just to be needed...gosh, give me a break. Stupid big...:censored:

None of Buffy's relationships were healthy, Angel could turn into an evil killer every time they had sex and Spike.. well how unhealthy do you have to be to attempt to rape someone? And yet somehow Riley, the boyfriend who wants to be their for his girlfriend, gets more shit from fans. "sigh"

See, that's where Riley's and idiot...he knew Spike had the hots for Buffy, and he should have realized that Spike was twisting things around to make it look like she trusted him just to get under Riley's skin...what a putz...

I don't believe Riley fell for Spike's act about Buffy confiding in him rather than Riley, it was what Spike said after that it a nerve. Spike says that Buffy likes her men dangerous with the occasional bumps on the forehead, Spike says exactly what has been troubling Riley since he discovered Angel. Early in the season Riley had issues with this, Spike just struck a nerve.

I liked the Ruffy 'Ship because it showed Buffy that sometimes "nice normal guys" can be just as monstrous in their behaviors.

Ah how was Riley monstruous in his behaviour? Furthermore, how can he be "just as" monstrous in his behaviour. Riley didn't manipulate Buffy, taunt Buffy, threaten to uncover her secrets to her friends or attempt to rape Buffy. How on earth was his behaviour just as monstrous?

Riley was an ok guy. He wasn't my favourite and yes he could be dull but then I don't see how Spike's pathetically constant nagging of Buffy about how she loves him, or Angel at times couldn't be just as dull? Riley gave Buffy the kind of relationship she deserved, she could go out into the day with him, sleep with him and he was good to her friends. More importantly, Riley didn't try to rape Buffy or kill her at any time. ;)

Wolfie Gilmore

11-07-07, 03:39 PM

I found Riley unappealing the first few times I watched season 4. The whole military industrial complex schtick made me instantly dislike him. But then I came to see him as a victim - someone who'd been institutionalised, abused by a system he believed in, and he started to make more sense to me. I respect him for saying he ain't gonna work on maggie's farm no more (well, the initiative). When he joins the army again, at least its more or less on his own terms (though I did respect him less for doing it partly cos his mate told him he was pu5sywhipped...exchanging being 'whipped for being
c-ockslapped doesn't exactly seem like progress. He was running away, it seemed to me...but that's ok. Everybody runs sometimes. Some of the best people run (CF Doctor Who :D).

I empathised with him in his relationship with Buffy...the pain of never being enough for someone is v touching...and I can see why he went to the hookers, even if I don't think it was a good choice.

I like people who mess up (and I wonder if the vamp hooker thing was actually intended to make us warm to him, cos it made him "darker"?)...in terms of fictional characters anyway. He looks like the perfect all american boy, but he's just another fckup like everyone else.

Poor Riley.

vampmogs

11-07-07, 03:48 PM

I like people who mess up (and I wonder if the vamp hooker thing was actually intended to make us warm to him, cos it made him "darker"?)...in terms of fictional characters anyway. He looks like the perfect all american boy, but he's just another fckup like everyone else.

Poor Riley.

Great Point :D People complain that he was boring and he was 'Yuck' because of this and yet when he goes and does something dark they complain about that. It appears to me people can enjoy Spuffy and don't have a problem following a ship which involved Spike attempting to rape Buffy, yet are outraged because Riley goes to some vamp whores and gets his blood sucked? That really doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

I think Riley is one of those characters who can't win either way. He is a happy jo regular guy who is kind to Buffy and loves her, people say he's yuck and boring, then he does something dark and twisted (the very characteristics they enjoy in Bangel and Spuffy) and Riley is a dick for doing this... "sigh."

Something that made me really enjoy his character was his speech to Buffy in season six, when he tells her that her life is pretty much a mess. Telling her how he hated seeing her in bed with that idiot (Spike :D ) and that blinding orange wasn't her best colour (DoubleMeat Palace uniform :D ) but then, unlike using this as a proposition to get her in the sack "cough" Spike "cough" Riley tells Buffy that she'll get through it and that she is "A Hell Of A Woman!" GO RILEY! :2party:

Wolfie Gilmore

11-07-07, 04:00 PM

Something that made me really enjoy his character was his speech to Buffy in season six, when he tells her that her life is pretty much a mess. Telling her how he hated seeing her in bed with that idiot (Spike :D ) and that blinding orange wasn't her best colour (DoubleMeat Palace uniform :D ) but then, unlike using this as a proposition to get her in the sack "cough" Spike "cough" Riley tells Buffy that she'll get through it and that she is "A Hell Of A Woman!" GO RILEY! :2party:

Now isn't that interesting...isn't "one hell of a woman" the epithet Spike uses in his speech in Touched? In order to become a potentially suitable boyfriend for Buffy, in order to get close to her...he has to copy Riley. :D

vampmogs

11-07-07, 04:05 PM

Now isn't that interesting...isn't "one hell of a woman" the epithet Spike uses in his speech in Touched? In order to become a potentially suitable boyfriend for Buffy, in order to get close to her...he has to copy Riley. :D

:roll: I should post that in the Spuffy thread and see what kind of reaction I get :rubs hands with glee: :hf2:

Well yeah Spike does say that to Buffy and I'm more talking about S6 Spuffy because no matter what horrible manipulative or violent thing Spike does to Buffy in that season the ship still has supporters and the guy can basically do no wrong. I just find it hard to grasp how anyone can have a problem with Riley getting bit by some vampires and basically label Riley and Ruffy stupid and icky but Spike's attempted rape does nothing to sway their opinion about Spuffy or Spike himself. I really can't understand how Riley is being bashed for wanting to be their for Buffy either, I'd take that over Spike's meeting her in the alley so he can beat her up anyday ;)

redrevo

11-07-07, 05:27 PM

I disliked him because he is such a bitch. And I say that meaning it.

He started out ok in S4, but in S5 he turned into a woman. ... You knowingly became involved with a strong independent super hero who was STRONGER than you, and you couldn't handle it. As soon as you perceived yourself as 'weaker' after your super-drugs went away, you started acting like a bitch-boy, because YOU couldn't handle your girlfriend being stronger than you! :cussing:

I never agreed that Buffy didn't love Riley...I think she did, he just wanted her in an un-healthy way...he needed her to be weak to make him feel more like a man, and for THAT, I hated him. The nerve of him to feel all insecure when she told him that she cried about Joyce when he wasn't around seriously pissed me off.
Riley was weak, plain and simple...I mean, HELLO, how unhealthy do you have to be to go and let a vampire suck your blood just to be needed...gosh, give me a break. Stupid big...:censored:

OK, I'm having some serious issues with the way this was worded, starting at "bitch" and "woman." If a man is insecure, if a man is being pushed away and is worried about his relationship, if a man is slightly emotionally unstable, if a man is weak (which Riley wasn't ...much), does that make him a "woman"? One of the themes of the show is that women are not just the sobbers, the ones who get killed in the alley, the ones who have personal issues, the ones who are physically weak. And I think that goes hand in hand with the men not always being stoic rocks, emotionless robots without issues of their own.

Second - Riley was not discontent because Buffy wasn't "crying on his shoulder" so to speak. It was because she wasn't even telling him about what was going on in her life. A relationship is about taking care of each other, in Riley's own words, and Buffy was refusing to even let him know what she knew. She was not letting him in, expecting him to go away when he really cared about what was bothering her, because she was afraid she'd get burned again. Riley just saw someone who refused to acknowledge his care for her. Sure, there may have been lingering sexist tendencies especially from his upbringing and the Initiative, but with Buffy's help he was beginning to leave them behind.

And about the blood-sucking thing - Yes, he was emotionally weak and mentally unstable at the time, because Buffy was not acknowledging his presence, his love for her. He had to find away to fill the his need to be needed - which Buffy was not recognizing, mostly subconsciously so it wasn't really her fault - and knowing what he did about vampires, he put two and two together. He didn't tell Buffy about his issues because he knew she'd just respond like she always did, with a nod and verbal recognition, but immediately retreating into her world. Buffy's mental state was self-supporting that way - even if she was told (by Riley) that she was pushing Riley away, she wouldn't really get the message because, well, she was pushing Riley away. A third party needed to intervene, and that was Xander. If only Xander had finished talking a little earlier, or Buffy had started running earlier, these issues could have been resolved and they would have continued in a healthy relationship like in Season 4 post-Goodbye Iowa.

Dark Ages

11-07-07, 05:45 PM

:2party: Well I liked Riley,
I dont get why people hated him soooo much. He was a normal guy, I guess you have to be a vampire or a demon so cans can like you. Riley was good looking first off. He really cared for Buffy and the gang, he helped each member of the scoobie gang in some way.He was a all around nice guy. I know that he had that vampire fetish but it wasnt somthing to hat him for. Spike tried to kill Buffy and her friends countless of times. So I like Riley, yes he could be a little boring but you cant justify that by his personality. :hf2:

Wolfie Gilmore

11-07-07, 05:55 PM

:roll: I should post that in the Spuffy thread and see what kind of reaction I get :rubs hands with glee: :hf2:

Glee? Malice more like. Horrid boy :D

Well yeah Spike does say that to Buffy and I'm more talking about S6 Spuffy because no matter what horrible manipulative or violent thing Spike does to Buffy in that season the ship still has supporters and the guy can basically do no wrong.

Oh, not denying s6 Spike is a manipulative fck. Just wanted to make the comparison - that to be "worthy" of Buffy, at least in his eyes, he has to borrow from Riley's phrasebook. That speech actually really annoyed me because it sounded so out of character...but how I read it now is that Spike is trying on yet another mask.

Chosen1

11-07-07, 05:59 PM

I didn't really care either way. I didn't hate his character, but I would have been alright without him. I thought he was good for Buffy in helping her move on from Angel. They might have been something more had she not missed his helicopter, but whatever.

LRae12

11-07-07, 06:16 PM

In all fairness to Riley I think if anyone out of Buffy's relationships was acting like the cry baby needy bitch it would have been Spike. Riley didn't stalk Buffy's house, follow Buffy around when she told him to get lost, tell Buffy she loved him like a pathetic needy loser when she states over and over again that she didn't, and Spike actually had tears in his eyes when Buffy yells at him in Who We Were. If anyone was the pathetic cry baby bitch here, I'd say that title has to go to Spike hands down.

First of all, Spike was a soulless monster in these references, not an en-souled being, so it's like comparing apples to dead leaves.

No he wanted Buffy to confide in him because he was her boyfriend, not a man. Riley had problems with Buffy being strong but at the same time liked it as well, it was hard because he had no mission of his own; something he was used to from his commando days. It is natural anyone would find it hard to deal, especially when your ex work buddies blatantly taunt you about being "the missions boyfriend, the mission's true love." Riley was the kind of guy who needed to act out and do something, that isn't a bad thing.

No, it's not a bad thing - the alpha male is the best type...but he turned away from being that by turning into a sniveling whiner. He couldn't deal with his friend's taunting, which again shows weakness.

It was a build up of many things, that was just another thing that upset Riley. Can we really blame Riley for wanting to be there to support his girlfriend; at the end of the day that's what he is getting bashed for here.

But the fact was that once he knew he wasn't there to support her, he was too wrapped up in his own insecurities to support her. Her mother had a BRAIN TUMOR, and yet instead of stopping to give support he runs off to have a vampire suck his blood because he didn't feel needed. Gee what a great boyfriend.

None of Buffy's relationships were healthy, Angel could turn into an evil killer every time they had sex and Spike.. well how unhealthy do you have to be to attempt to rape someone? And yet somehow Riley, the boyfriend who wants to be their for his girlfriend, gets more shit from fans. "sigh"

But both of these instances do not compare. Angel didn't know what would happen to him if he was with Buffy, and once he did he did the right thing by letting her go to have a normal life. Spike, again a soulless monster when he attempted to rape her, even without a soul realized how wrong it was and went off to seek the only thing that he could to be what Buffy needed - his soul. Yet Riley, being the 'normal boyfriend' treated her worse, IMO than either of the other two ever did...

I don't believe Riley fell for Spike's act about Buffy confiding in him rather than Riley, it was what Spike said after that it a nerve. Spike says that Buffy likes her men dangerous with the occasional bumps on the forehead, Spike says exactly what has been troubling Riley since he discovered Angel. Early in the season Riley had issues with this, Spike just struck a nerve.

Again, that was Riley's problem then, wasn't it.

Ah how was Riley monstruous in his behaviour? Furthermore, how can he be "just as" monstrous in his behaviour. Riley didn't manipulate Buffy, taunt Buffy, threaten to uncover her secrets to her friends or attempt to rape Buffy. How on earth was his behaviour just as monstrous?

No, he just picked the most difficult time of her life to pull his 'i'm so needy crap', was too selfish and wrapped up in himself to stop and try to understand that though Buffy may not be perfect (ie confiding every little thought in her head) that she needed his support and patience then more than ever.

OK, I'm having some serious issues with the way this was worded, starting at "bitch" and "woman." If a man is insecure, if a man is being pushed away and is worried about his relationship, if a man is slightly emotionally unstable, if a man is weak (which Riley wasn't ...much), does that make him a "woman"? One of the themes of the show is that women are not just the sobbers, the ones who get killed in the alley, the ones who have personal issues, the ones who are physically weak. And I think that goes hand in hand with the men not always being stoic rocks, emotionless robots without issues of their own.

It was a metaphor...normally women are the ones who are whining and crying about their relationships...usually they're the ones saying 'you never communicate with me' or 'you don't care about my feelings' Just like Xander said to Anya in Hush 'you really did turn into a woman, didn't you' when she was complaining about those very things...it's a figure of speech...;)

Second - Riley was not discontent because Buffy wasn't "crying on his shoulder" so to speak. It was because she wasn't even telling him about what was going on in her life. A relationship is about taking care of each other, in Riley's own words, and Buffy was refusing to even let him know what she knew. She was not letting him in, expecting him to go away when he really cared about what was bothering her, because she was afraid she'd get burned again. Riley just saw someone who refused to acknowledge his care for her. Sure, there may have been lingering sexist tendencies especially from his upbringing and the Initiative, but with Buffy's help he was beginning to leave them behind.

See, I take issue with that. She wasn't telling SOME of the things that were going on in her life - like Dawn - because she was trying to protect him, and all of her friends, from Glory. 2nd, Riley knew about Joyce intitally, he was with her at the hospital in Out of My Mind when Joyce initially got sick. Buffy only found out that Joyce was going back into the hospital at the end of Fool for Love, when Spike showed up to kill her. Spike told Riley at the very beginning of the next episode. So what? Buffy isn't allowed to take an evening to process something that major? Give me a break! She didn't refuse his care for her...when Joyce was in the hospital she spent the evening with Riley, dancing in the living room, she told him how she broke down and cried about it - Hello, sharing here! - and he became insecure because she didn't cry TO HIM! :mad:

And about the blood-sucking thing - Yes, he was emotionally weak and mentally unstable at the time, because Buffy was not acknowledging his presence, his love for her. He had to find away to fill the his need to be needed

I think it's awfully unfair of everyone to expect Buffy to be perfect...so she didn't see that Riley was an insecure baby, her mother was DYING! God, priorities, here! She acknowledged his love for her. His NEED was what was unhealthy. There is no excuse for his behavior with the vampires, and to blame Buffy's not recognizing his instability is unacceptable. That's like the serial killer blaming his crimes on the fact that he was never loved enough as a child...People need to take responsibility for their own actions and not put the blame on others. He was weak and needy, he made his own selfish choices, and he hurt Buffy at the most vulnerable time in her life. For that I hated him, and find his actions both inexcusable and unforgivable.

Despite all of my Riley!hate speech here, I actually did like him at first in S4...he did act fairly normal, and I thought the relationship could have a chance...it was S5 Riley that pissed me off...:p

redrevo

12-07-07, 04:46 PM

See, I take issue with that. She wasn't telling SOME of the things that were going on in her life - like Dawn - because she was trying to protect him, and all of her friends, from Glory. 2nd, Riley knew about Joyce intitally, he was with her at the hospital in Out of My Mind when Joyce initially got sick. Buffy only found out that Joyce was going back into the hospital at the end of Fool for Love, when Spike showed up to kill her. Spike told Riley at the very beginning of the next episode. So what? Buffy isn't allowed to take an evening to process something that major? Give me a break!

Riley was angry because she told Spike - a monster, supposedly her enemy - before she told him, the guy who tried to support her, her boyfriend, the one she was supposed to trust. He didn't know about the circumstances, and his anger was justified. It isn't exactly encouraging to find out that your enemies know more about your significant other than you do.

She didn't refuse his care for her...when Joyce was in the hospital she spent the evening with Riley, dancing in the living room, she told him how she broke down and cried about it - Hello, sharing here! - and he became insecure because she didn't cry TO HIM!

Yes - but he was miffed because he was there the whole time, and she didn't want to share her emotions with him. Instead of crying - which she did later anyway - she left him when he knew there was something going on. Plus, she did this whole sharing-after-the-fact thing after Riley had already started going to the vamps.

I think it's awfully unfair of everyone to expect Buffy to be perfect...so she didn't see that Riley was an insecure baby, her mother was DYING! God, priorities, here! She acknowledged his love for her. She acknowledged it, but didn't act on it. She knew he loved her, as he told her, but pushed him away unconsciously nonetheless.

There is no excuse for his behavior with the vampires, and to blame Buffy's not recognizing his instability is unacceptable.

I am not "blaming" Buffy. She didn't know he was unstable. But Riley didn't know that she didn't know he was unstable, she wasn't telling him anything. It was a big I-don't-know-fest. Misunderstandings happen and lead to bad things, it doesn't mean that it was anyone's fault.

That's like the serial killer blaming his crimes on the fact that he was never loved enough as a child...People need to take responsibility for their own actions and not put the blame on others.

Except Riley never physically hurt anyone. And what was he supposed to do, sit there and be convenient, be a robot, be the rebound guy? When she wanted him to leave, he left. He filled his emotional needs elsewhere, and didn't tell Buffy about his being needy because a) she was already going through a lot and b) he thought she wouldn't listen anyway.

He was weak and needy, he made his own selfish choices
Everyone's got needs. Riley was a human with needs. Somehow filling those needs without bothering his girlfriend, who was already not wanting him around, is a selfish, uncaring choice?

he hurt Buffy at the most vulnerable time in her life

He did not intend to hurt Buffy or bog her down with more issues, that's why he went to the vampires in the first place, because she was vulnerable and in her own shell.

kana

13-07-07, 11:38 AM

Except Riley never physically hurt anyone. And what was he supposed to do, sit there and be convenient, be a robot, be the rebound guy?

I think this is it. Like you, I don't blame Buffy but it must be hard to just be there but not be with her. Spike, the master of insight could see it and so could Xander. Buffy WAS pushing Riley away, and I think that that has to be acknowledged before we are too hard on him. He handled it badly, absolutely but even Buffy understood what she had done.

Riley didn't handle things in the best way but does that mean he's a bad boyfriend? We all make mistakes but the fact that Buffy was willing to work things out shows they had a relationship worth saving. It was kind of a 's*** happens' kind of deal.

vampmogs

13-07-07, 05:12 PM

First of all, Spike was a soulless monster in these references, not an en-souled being, so it's like comparing apples to dead leaves.

So shouldn't that make people dislike him more? Yet, the "soulless monster" can do no wrong whereas Riley can for feeling needy and insecure. It is complete double standards because Riley isn't as funny or dangerous as Spike.

No, it's not a bad thing - the alpha male is the best type...but he turned away from being that by turning into a sniveling whiner. He couldn't deal with his friend's taunting, which again shows weakness.

Spike couldn't deal with the fact Buffy didn't love him, to the point he had to force his way into her house without her permission and onto her when she didn't want him; he attempted to rape her because he was weak.

But the fact was that once he knew he wasn't there to support her, he was too wrapped up in his own insecurities to support her. Her mother had a BRAIN TUMOR, and yet instead of stopping to give support he runs off to have a vampire suck his blood because he didn't feel needed. Gee what a great boyfriend.

Riley was upset because Buffy wouldn't allow him to give support; the kind of thing a partner is supposed to do. That is why he was upset Buffy refused to cry with him but did so on her own, because he couldn't support and help her..... Furthermore, again Spike is a better guy even though he attempted to rape Buffy because he had no soul whereas Riley got a vampire to bite him so he is somehow worse? Sounds to me like needless Riley bashing because Spike is so pretty and funny and of course could do no wrong.

But both of these instances do not compare. Angel didn't know what would happen to him if he was with Buffy, and once he did he did the right thing by letting her go to have a normal life. Spike, again a soulless monster when he attempted to rape her, even without a soul realized how wrong it was and went off to seek the only thing that he could to be what Buffy needed - his soul. Yet Riley, being the 'normal boyfriend' treated her worse, IMO than either of the other two ever did...

Riley treated her worse? How does letting a vampire bite you be worse than attempted rape? Ask anyone who has nearly been raped which is worse, it isn't even comparable and is an insult to suggest that it is worse.

Again, that was Riley's problem then, wasn't it.

And it was Spike's problem that he couldn't accept that Buffy didn't love him, your point being?

No, he just picked the most difficult time of her life to pull his 'i'm so needy crap', was too selfish and wrapped up in himself to stop and try to understand that though Buffy may not be perfect (ie confiding every little thought in her head) that she needed his support and patience then more than ever.

Buffy states that all the scoobies could see Buffy was pushing Riley away, as could Xander; why can't you? Riley didn't pick a time to be all needy, he was being ignored by Buffy because she was too wrapped up in herself. Buffy is my fave character but I can openly state such a thing, the scoobies noticed it, why can't you?

It was a metaphor...normally women are the ones who are whining and crying about their relationships...usually they're the ones saying 'you never communicate with me' or 'you don't care about my feelings' Just like Xander said to Anya in Hush 'you really did turn into a woman, didn't you' when she was complaining about those very things...it's a figure of speech...;)

Again... Spike was the most needy and pathetic person Buffy ever had to deal with. Riley didn't try and kill himself because he was useless, nor did he try to rape Buffy because she refused to be with him, nor did he try and convince Buffy she loved him and stalk Buffy outside her house. More importantly, Spike was cried when he realised Buffy was just using him; Riley didn't.

See, I take issue with that. She wasn't telling SOME of the things that were going on in her life - like Dawn - because she was trying to protect him, and all of her friends, from Glory. 2nd, Riley knew about Joyce intitally, he was with her at the hospital in Out of My Mind when Joyce initially got sick. Buffy only found out that Joyce was going back into the hospital at the end of Fool for Love, when Spike showed up to kill her. Spike told Riley at the very beginning of the next episode. So what? Buffy isn't allowed to take an evening to process something that major? Give me a break! She didn't refuse his care for her...when Joyce was in the hospital she spent the evening with Riley, dancing in the living room, she told him how she broke down and cried about it - Hello, sharing here! - and he became insecure because she didn't cry TO HIM! :mad:

Your mad because Riley was insecure but you aren't mad at Spike even though he tried to RAPE Buffy. Doesn't make sense to me, to eve suggest Riley is worse is an insult to every guy out there who doesn't even consider raping someone. It is insulting to suggest being insecure about your relationship is worse or just as bad as attempted rape.

I think it's awfully unfair of everyone to expect Buffy to be perfect...so she didn't see that Riley was an insecure baby, her mother was DYING! God, priorities, here! She acknowledged his love for her. His NEED was what was unhealthy. There is no excuse for his behavior with the vampires, and to blame Buffy's not recognizing his instability is unacceptable. That's like the serial killer blaming his crimes on the fact that he was never loved enough as a child...People need to take responsibility for their own actions and not put the blame on others. He was weak and needy, he made his own selfish choices, and he hurt Buffy at the most vulnerable time in her life. For that I hated him, and find his actions both inexcusable and unforgivable.

The most vulnerable time in her life was after she came back from hell, emotionally stunted with the responsbility of looking after her younger sister and the house and who took advantage of her then? Spike. He was emotionally manipulative and cruel by mocking her stating she came back wrong, he attempted to rape her; he was utterly selfish. So don't blame Riley for being insecure and make excuses for Spike trying to rape Buffy.

Despite all of my Riley!hate speech here, I actually did like him at first in S4...he did act fairly normal, and I thought the relationship could have a chance...it was S5 Riley that pissed me off...:p

Again everyone but Buffy could see she was pushing him away, they all sympathised with Riley and not Buffy; he was in the right here, she was in the wrong.

LRae12

13-07-07, 06:32 PM

So shouldn't that make people dislike him more? Yet, the "soulless monster" can do no wrong whereas Riley can for feeling needy and insecure. It is complete double standards because Riley isn't as funny or dangerous as Spike.

Spike couldn't deal with the fact Buffy didn't love him, to the point he had to force his way into her house without her permission and onto her when she didn't want him; he attempted to rape her because he was weak.

Furthermore, again Spike is a better guy even though he attempted to rape Buffy because he had no soul whereas Riley got a vampire to bite him so he is somehow worse? Sounds to me like needless Riley bashing because Spike is so pretty and funny and of course could do no wrong.

Riley treated her worse? How does letting a vampire bite you be worse than attempted rape? Ask anyone who has nearly been raped which is worse, it isn't even comparable and is an insult to suggest that it is worse.

Again... Spike was the most needy and pathetic person Buffy ever had to deal with. Riley didn't try and kill himself because he was useless, nor did he try to rape Buffy because she refused to be with him, nor did he try and convince Buffy she loved him and stalk Buffy outside her house. More importantly, Spike was cried when he realised Buffy was just using him; Riley didn't.

Your mad because Riley was insecure but you aren't mad at Spike even though he tried to RAPE Buffy. Doesn't make sense to me, to eve suggest Riley is worse is an insult to every guy out there who doesn't even consider raping someone. It is insulting to suggest being insecure about your relationship is worse or just as bad as attempted rape.

The most vulnerable time in her life was after she came back from hell, emotionally stunted with the responsbility of looking after her younger sister and the house and who took advantage of her then? Spike. He was emotionally manipulative and cruel by mocking her stating she came back wrong, he attempted to rape her; he was utterly selfish. So don't blame Riley for being insecure and make excuses for Spike trying to rape Buffy.

vampmog, when did this thread turn into 'why you hate Spike'? I thought it was supposed to be about why we did or did not like Riley. It's fine to compare, but just because somebody says something bad about Riley doesn't mean that we need the 'Spike tried to rape Buffy' fact thrown back constantly. What Spike did was wrong, but this thread isn't about Spike...maybe you should start a thread about that so we can stay more on topic here...;)

And it was Spike's problem that he couldn't accept that Buffy didn't love him, your point being?

Buffy states that all the scoobies could see Buffy was pushing Riley away, as could Xander; why can't you? Riley didn't pick a time to be all needy, he was being ignored by Buffy because she was too wrapped up in herself. Buffy is my fave character but I can openly state such a thing, the scoobies noticed it, why can't you?

Also, it's ok to disagree...that's what makes these forums fun for discussions...you seem to be taking it a bit too personally, and there's no need to get bent out of shape...it's all good...:hug:

Dark Ages

13-07-07, 06:56 PM

LRae12

13-07-07, 07:39 PM

Sorry, Vampmogs is NOT off topic. Clearly you brought the talk about Spike up. He is just referring to what you just posted.

Actually, I didn't bring him up...I was actually responding to what he had posted about before me...;) Again, I would be more than happy to have a debate about Spike in another thread, but this one seems to have been taken over by the attempted rape discussions...:(

Ehlwyen

13-07-07, 08:20 PM

Okay, we're all cool in here no need to get into a discussion on who started what. :D

Comparing Riley to other buffyverse characters in only natural to come up. It's not off topic as long until the discussion is only about Spike and not about comparing him to Riley or their relationships with Buffy. :)

Jenni Lou

13-07-07, 09:25 PM

I think Riley is getting a lot of flack for being willingly bit by vampires. But I bet a large part of his decision in doing that was because Buffy let herself get bit when she was under the "thrall" of Drac not long before he started going to that warehouse. Plus, he knew about her background with Angel...the man was wrong in his decision, but I think he was trying to find what the appeal of vampires was, because in his eyes, Buffy has been appealed by them before. He wanted to understand and it got out of control.

And someone earlier mentioned that even Spike and Xander saw that Buffy was pushing Riley away, shutting him out....that's so true. To suggest that he should put up or shut up regarding his relationship with Buffy is ridiculous. Anyone whoi's ever been in a serious relationship knows how important communication is. And she did not want to communicate with him.

Epic

14-07-07, 04:42 AM

Something about Riley he was one of those characters, that I didn't miss until he was gone.
I liked how he got along with Willow, and his rivlery with Spike. He defiently grew on me in the fifth season, and he was a part of Buffy's life, but I still have to say I missed him when he was gone, and was glad they gave him a story line in which we figured out where he went after he left Buffy.

vampmogs

15-07-07, 03:11 AM

vampmog, when did this thread turn into 'why you hate Spike'? I thought it was supposed to be about why we did or did not like Riley. It's fine to compare, but just because somebody says something bad about Riley doesn't mean that we need the 'Spike tried to rape Buffy' fact thrown back constantly. What Spike did was wrong, but this thread isn't about Spike...maybe you should start a thread about that so we can stay more on topic here...;)

Why should no one speak up about the complete double standards that are being displayed here in some posts? Stating that Riley is just as monstrous as Buffy's undead boyfriends is nonsensical to me. According to some being 'needy' makes you a monster; and yet we then have a thread going on claiming Spike- the mass murdering serial killer, blood sucking attempted rapist isn't a monster. How does that work? How does being needy automatically make you a monster and yet people are willing to have long healthy debates about how ACTUAL monsters like Spike are good? Being needy doesn't make you a bad person and most certainly doesn't make you a monster; if someone is going to state such a thing I'll happily compare Riley with another of Buffy's relationships to demonstrate what an actual monster is. Comparing Riley to a selfish emotional manipulator and attempted rapist IMO is acceptable; it is to defend Riley and why I like him. I'd like any evidence to suggest Riley is as monstrous as a would-be rapist, I do find the idea pretty insulting. It is as if rape has no meaning here.

It's been stated Riley is a 'bitch' for his behaviour, the same behaviour that basically summed up the Spike obsession, I don't see why anyone should have to shut their mouth and not say anything if there is obvious double standards at work here; it is Riley bashing at an extreme for no good reason.

Also, it's ok to disagree...that's what makes these forums fun for discussions...you seem to be taking it a bit too personally, and there's no need to get bent out of shape...it's all good...:hug:

I know it is ok to disagree, I enjoy debates when there are two sides because it isn't interesting when there is only one. However, I'll be the first to admit I've gotten a little frustrated in this thread because basically calling someone monstrous for being needy bewilders me. Riley will be faulted for being needy, he'll be called a monster for being needy and yet.. there is nowhere near the uproar for the attempted rapist who Buffy had an unhealthy relationship for.

Matt

15-07-07, 10:55 AM

I never used to like him, I always used to think he was incredibly dull and annoying, but as during my latest rewatch I've grown to like him, which is quite surprising really because it's like my attitude toward him has completely changed.

amy1234

15-07-07, 12:43 PM

I liked riley at the beginging i think he was alright and good for buffy but near the end i felt sorry for him because buffy was being too reliable on him, but she had just been through a hard time with her mum, but i didnt feel like he was needy, i think buffy was pushing him out.

Vyse

15-07-07, 08:34 PM

See, I take issue with that. She wasn't telling SOME of the things that were going on in her life - like Dawn - because she was trying to protect him, and all of her friends, from Glory.

Would you allow me to say something about this ? :p One of the things I have been told a lot of times by people who dislike Riley is that he's annoying for his macho attitude because he wants to "protect" Buffy, who doesn't need it at all because she's a strong, independent woman who can take care of herself. And I actually agree with that ;) But, in all honesty, shall I be allowed to say that maybe the same thing, with reversed roles, would apply here ? Buffy wasn't telling him because she wanted to protect him ? Well... maybe Riley wouldn't have wanted to be protected... maybe he'd rather have his girlfriend share her emotions with him... :p :D ;)

2nd, Riley knew about Joyce intitally, he was with her at the hospital in Out of My Mind when Joyce initially got sick. Buffy only found out that Joyce was going back into the hospital at the end of Fool for Love, when Spike showed up to kill her. Spike told Riley at the very beginning of the next episode. So what? Buffy isn't allowed to take an evening to process something that major? Give me a break! She didn't refuse his care for her...when Joyce was in the hospital she spent the evening with Riley, dancing in the living room, she told him how she broke down and cried about it - Hello, sharing here! - and he became insecure because she didn't cry TO HIM! :mad:

Except that she didn't even need an evening to tell Spike :( And, again, if you allow me... when Riley told her to let it out in the hospital she told him that she couldn't and had to stay strong because if she had started to cry she wouldn't have been able to stop. Which, again, I can understand... but Riley can only perceive that as another refusal to open up to him :( Besides, please let me point one more thing out... if Angel had been there in the hospital with her instead of Riley, do you really think she wouldn't have told him ? I certainly think she would have. If Angel had been at her side, Buffy would have broken down, right there, immediately. But not with Riley :( Riley felt this. When you deeply love someone you feel these things. He felt that Buffy's behaviour would have been different. And these things hurt. A lot :cutecry:

kana

15-07-07, 08:44 PM

If Angel had been at her side, Buffy would have broken down, right there, immediately. But not with Riley

You see, I'm sure about that. Buffy was certainly more emotionally available to Angel at the time of their relationship and was kind of needy when he showed up again but perhaps that was circumstance and where she was at that time. However because of Angel's elusiveness he's not the sort of person you can take for granted and I do believe she did this a little with Riley.

Buffy: I can see (Riley) anytime.

I think she said something like that. I can't remember her saying that with Angel and it certainly is consistent with Xander's 'conveniant' theory.

omri

20-07-07, 01:47 PM

I Hate him! he is so annoying! I heard that the reason he quit/ let go of the show is because of the fans..

vampmogs

20-07-07, 02:31 PM

I Hate him! he is so annoying! I heard that the reason he quit/ let go of the show is because of the fans..

Would you be able to expand on why you found him so annoying? What he did he do that annoys you so much? And was this unique to his character alone, if so why and if not do you hate the other characters from the same traits?

And as far as I know the writers decided to write Riley out of the program, a story they began building since the start of s5 and Blucas had nothing to do with the decision.

Valyssia

20-07-07, 03:54 PM

I sorta thought he was rather like an over-grown Ken doll. I watch those episodes and mostly filter him. Really could've cared a lot less.

Willow threatening to beat him to death with a shovel...one of the better moments in the season. I almost died laughing.

Valyssia

omri

20-07-07, 04:33 PM

Would you be able to expand on why you found him so annoying? What he did he do that annoys you so much? And was this unique to his character alone, if so why and if not do you hate the other characters from the same traits?

And as far as I know the writers decided to write Riley out of the program, a story they began building since the start of s5 and Blucas had nothing to do with the decision.

I don't know. The way he cheated on Buffy. The way he acts "Buffy dosn't love me.." Boohoo. There's something really annoying about him. I can't tell you exactly why cause i don't really know my self. I think i'll need to rewatch season 4-5 to tell you exactly.

vampmogs

20-07-07, 04:56 PM

I don't know. The way he cheated on Buffy. The way he acts "Buffy dosn't love me.." Boohoo. There's something really annoying about him. I can't tell you exactly why cause i don't really know my self. I think i'll need to rewatch season 4-5 to tell you exactly.

Well Riley never cheated on Buffy. I wouldn't say allowing vampires to bite would fall under the category of cheating. Unless this was something Buffy and Riley did in private :roll: Riley made it very clear they were never intimate and he just needed to feel the rush that someone needed him desperatly. As he says to the vampire Sandy, "I don't go out with vampires." They never slept together or were intimate in anyway, he simply allowed them to feed off him.

Again not trying to turn this into a hate Spike thread but feel compelled to draw comparisons... Did you find that annoying in Spike? After all he made a shrine for Buffy, snuck into her bedroom and sniffed her clothing and had to be mystical shut out of her house because he wouldn't stop following her about trying to make her love him. Did you find this annoying with Spike or just that attitude annoying in Riley. If not why? Is there something else about Riley that makes him more annoying?

kana

20-07-07, 06:11 PM

I find myself in this pattern of respecting Buffy's lovers more after they leave her. I liked Angel more when he had his own series and my favourite moment for Spike is when he fought because he believed in the mission, not because he thought was what Buffy wanted. Riley in Season 6 was spot on for me. He has a mission, a wife who he can share that with and he's actually pretty non-judgemental. A lot of Spike fans have grown to like him over the years because we're able to see things from his perspective but he is a soulless vampire at this point who the last time Riley saw was only a caged animal who happened to fancy himself as a suitor for Buffy and Riley was right about him being the Doctor yet he doesn't get on at Buffy for it. He doesn't blame her and I think he's grown a lot, he didn't even have to hear that Buffy was sorry how things turned out, it hurt but he moved on and doesn't hold any grudges. Maybe Riley wasn't the perfect boyfriend but who is? He was damn close to being the perfect ex.

vampmogs

20-07-07, 06:21 PM

Vyse

27-07-07, 03:46 AM

Well Riley never cheated on Buffy. I wouldn't say allowing vampires to bite would fall under the category of cheating. Unless this was something Buffy and Riley did in private :roll: Riley made it very clear they were never intimate and he just needed to feel the rush that someone needed him desperatly. As he says to the vampire Sandy, "I don't go out with vampires." They never slept together or were intimate in anyway, he simply allowed them to feed off him.

You know, actually I was told more than once by people who dislike Riley that that had to be considered cheating. I guess probably because Riley shared a need with someone other than his girlfriend :( Many even told me that he had already cheated on Buffy before that. With Faith, even though she was in Buffy's body :( While I can somewhat agree in the vampires' case (especially since Buffy perceived it that way too, and was definitely hurt), I find it a bit too harsh on him to consider him guilty in Faith's case. He didn't know :( And definitely didn't mean to :(

Anyway, I'm kind of surprised by the outcome of this poll, at least in this moment. Ruffy shippers such as myself are an extreme minority, and I've always met many more Riley haters than lovers. Still, right now the poll indicates that Riley is a good character after all... weird. I guess most votes come from people who don't care about relationships on the show too much :p

vampmogs

27-07-07, 04:23 AM

You know, actually I was told more than once by people who dislike Riley that that had to be considered cheating. I guess probably because Riley shared a need with someone other than his girlfriend :( Many even told me that he had already cheated on Buffy before that. With Faith, even though she was in Buffy's body :( While I can somewhat agree in the vampires' case (especially since Buffy perceived it that way too, and was definitely hurt), I find it a bit too harsh on him to consider him guilty in Faith's case. He didn't know :( And definitely didn't mean to :(

I don't think needing something from someone other than your girlfriend really qualifies as cheating, I would say that was to drastic. He was never intimate with them, and he knew all they saw him as was a meal. He desired the craving they had for him but I wouldn't call it cheating, no sentimental or sexual connection ever took place. IMO it was more like Riley was using drugs behind Buffy's back than anything else.

And as far as the Faith thing, well yeah I agree that is very harsh. He had no idea it wasn't Buffy, how could he? He can't be faulted for sleeping with her as he never intended to sleep with anyone but Buffy and did so because he was tricked. :)

Anyway, I'm kind of surprised by the outcome of this poll, at least in this moment. Ruffy shippers such as myself are an extreme minority, and I've always met many more Riley haters than lovers. Still, right now the poll indicates that Riley is a good character after all... weird. I guess most votes come from people who don't care about relationships on the show too much :p

I'm not a fan of Riley or Ruffy but I don't hate them either. I think Riley could have given Buffy the best life out of any of her relationships and it was certainly the most healthy. IMO Riley was made for something bigger than being Buffy's boyfriend so I don't think his place belonged in Sunnydale, but I don't think he was a bad guy and he didn't get on my nerves as he did with others. Riley is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Some don't like him because he was so bland and boring and not dark like Spike or Angel, when he goes dark they then hate him for this. :( The guy just can't win people over as hard as he tries :roll:

basakbangel

27-07-07, 10:44 AM

Firstly I'm not a ruffy. but after all Riley relationship was ok. and Riley loved her. so there's nothing wrong with that. But after a relationship with Angel; Riley was little basic and didn't it look that much impressive. Tough Buffy needed someone like Riley b/c after Angel she felt lonely and empty. Tough Buffy never loved him in the that she loved Angel; she liked him.