"What Would Buffy Do?": The Buffy Appreciation Sociecty

[Rosamunde]

"I can beat up the demons until the cows come home and then I can beat up the cows." - Buffy

Member list :)

Rosamunde
redrevo
LRae12
ykickamoocow
vampmogs
sherrilina
~M@rie~

I thought I'd start a club in appreciation of Buffy. She's one of my favourite fictional characters, particularly because she's a flawed human being and a passionate hero.

To get the ball rolling, I thought we could chat about which Buffy you liked best. Was it eager, uncertain highschool Buffy? The savvy Buffy who fought the mayor? The seasoned warrior in Series 7? Or the flawed and brave Buffy of season six?

[redrevo]

I'll join the club (metaphorical or not) here. Just as you said, Buffy was great, along with most of the other characters, because she was flawed and human. Even in a supernatural world she had ordinary, real-life or representational-of-real-life problems and was able to overcome them in a positive and existentialist portrayal of the human condition. I think I like season 5 Buffy the best, because she is told throughout the season that she brings death, that as a slayer she's a killer, and that she must be alone. However, she displays absolute defiance against these primal, traditional sources after Weight of the World, when she realizes she has major ties to the world, and has more love for her friends her sister than she had imagined. That's another thing I really appreciate about Buffy in season 5 and the end of season 6. She has friends, who give her strength (she's not a perfect superhero) and she realizes this.

[LRae12]

I think I preferred pre-Dawn Buffy the best...probably S4, out of high school and more adult, but still the Buffy we all came to know and love. Once Dawn came along she became way too whiny and complainy (S5), then mopey (S6), then preachy and speechifying (S7). I found high-school Buffy entertaining and comical, but i think I preferred her out of high school and just entering the world of college the best...;)

[ykickamoocow]

"I can beat up the demons until the cows come home and then I can beat up the cows." - Buffy

I thought I'd start a club in appreciation of Buffy. She's one of my favourite fictional characters, particularly because she's a flawed human being and a passionate hero.

To get the ball rolling, I thought we could chat about which Buffy you liked best. Was it eager, uncertain highschool Buffy? The savvy Buffy who fought the mayor? The seasoned warrior in Series 7? Or the flawed and brave Buffy of season six?


I liked the eager, uncertain highschool Buffy as you put it. Though i also liked the seasons 4 and 5 Buffy. I thought the character went downhill abit from seasons 6 and 7.

[vampmogs]

Oh I have to join this club she is my favourite character and I will defend her until the end!

I don't really dislike Buffy in any season, I think her attitude and what she was going through was completely understandable under the circumstances. She gets a lot of flak for being whiney but wouldn't you if she had the weight of the world on your shoulders?

[Rosamunde]

I think I like season 5 Buffy the best, because she is told throughout the season that she brings death, that as a slayer she's a killer, and that she must be alone. However, she displays absolute defiance against these primal, traditional sources after Weight of the World, when she realizes she has major ties to the world, and has more love for her friends her sister than she had imagined.

I hadn't thought about season 5 Buffy before but you raise an interesting point. Of course I thought of Buffy as someone who fought her destiny and the rules placed before her, but not in such a basic way as you describe. By fighting for her humanity, she goes against the grain of who she is supposed to be, who, in fact, the course of her life tries to force her to be.

[sherrilina]

Add me to the list please--I do love Buffy, and hate irrational Buffy Bashers! :down:

Oh I have to join this club she is my favourite character and I will defend her until the end!

I don't really dislike Buffy in any season, I think her attitude and what she was going through was completely understandable under the circumstances. She gets a lot of flak for being whiney but wouldn't you if she had the weight of the world on your shoulders?
Yeah, that's the way I feel when people bitch abotu Harry being too angry and moody in the fifth book....I mean, come on, he had good reason to feel that way! :rolleyes: As did Buffy...

The only Buffy I didn't like as much was, in LRae's words, the "preaching and speechifying" Buffy of season 7. I actually do like season 6 Buffy's dark sarcasm and humor (like suggesting they burn the house down and collect the insurance on it), and pessimissm a bit, it was interesting...and season 5 is one of my favorite seasons, so she couldn't have been that bad IMO! ;)

I think I do like high school Buffy better than seasons 5-7, and I'm not sure about college Buffy...I love her in Pangs, for example, but not so much during the whole Parker situation (up to BB)....and her hair bugged me for some reason that season! :lol: Not to mention her appearances on ATS, though I suppose that doesn't count really as season 4 BTVS Buffy....and on the other hand I didn't like "Angsty about Angel!Buffy" during High school, or "trying to be Badass!Buffy" and such in season 3....I think the Buffy I like best might be the second half of season 2, and maybe season 4 over all, as LRae, said...it's hard to decide though, besides NOT season 7....

[~M@rie~]

Oh I have to join this club she is my favourite character and I will defend her until the end!

I don't really dislike Buffy in any season, I think her attitude and what she was going through was completely understandable under the circumstances. She gets a lot of flak for being whiney but wouldn't you if she had the weight of the world on your shoulders?

Sign me up, please! Buffy's my favorite fictional hero.

As Adam said, I like Buffy in every season. She evolved and fought to save the world everyday of her life. But if I had to choose, I'd say Season 5 Buffy because she was on a quest for her identity as a Slayer but also as a woman. And by the end of the season (Weight of the World precisely), she discovered and understood what she had to do, who she really was. This shows that Buffy can be a very inspirational character, IMO.

[Peace]

Add me in, please.

Season 5 was the best in POV of Buffy's character development, but season 2 was the one where Buffy changed from still sunny-bright-positive teen into a woman with her own demons:(

[LRae12]

Add me to the list please--I do love Buffy, and hate irrational Buffy Bashers! :down:



The only Buffy I didn't like as much was, in LRae's words, the "preaching and speechifying" Buffy of season 7. I actually do like season 6 Buffy's dark sarcasm and humor (like suggesting they burn the house down and collect the insurance on it), and pessimissm a bit, it was interesting...and season 5 is one of my favorite seasons, so she couldn't have been that bad IMO! ;)

I think I do like high school Buffy better than seasons 5-7, and I'm not sure about college Buffy...I love her in Pangs, for example, but not so much during the whole Parker situation (up to BB)....and her hair bugged me for some reason that season! :lol: Not to mention her appearances on ATS, though I suppose that doesn't count really as season 4 BTVS Buffy....and on the other hand I didn't like "Angsty about Angel!Buffy" during High school, or "trying to be Badass!Buffy" and such in season 3....I think the Buffy I like best might be the second half of season 2, and maybe season 4 over all, as LRae, said...it's hard to decide though, besides NOT season 7....


LOL! I didn't DISLIKE any of the Buffy's either...just stated my reasons for why I PREFERRED S4 Buffy.

I, too liked S6 Buffy with her dark humor - and the fire insurance crack was funny...as was her having to go out to work at a burger-joint! I liked that they brought in real-world problems like finances for her to face.

As far as her hair in S4 - I really, really loved it - especially when it went curly...she's so little and petite, and the curly hair made her seem, I don't know, almost natural sized :lol: But coming from a person cursed with natural curls, I like to see other sporting them from time to time...even though I usually curse them when they go straight, because, well, I can't...:p


I think I liked Buffy's hair the best in the beginning of S6 before she whacked it off...like in OMWF when it was long and wavy - very pretty. :)

[sherrilina]

As far as her hair in S4 - I really, really loved it - especially when it went curly...she's so little and petite, and the curly hair made her seem, I don't know, almost natural sized :lol: But coming from a person cursed with natural curls, I like to see other sporting them from time to time...even though I usually curse them when they go straight, because, well, I can't...:p

Lol, me too--I too am "cursed" (though as long as they behave themselves I'm usually okay with them--and they're fun to play with! :lol: ) with naturally curly hair! But maybe that's partly why I dislike her hair in season 4, b/c it's so obvious it's crimped or whatever, and that it's fake....it kind of annoys me sometimes when people deliberatly do that to their hair! :p Whereas with Cordy in YW though, well I think CC's hair naturally has some curl to the ends of her hair, and maybe b/c it was a natural color as well, but it seemed more natural-looking to me, and nice...but I also think it may have to do with the way they dyed Buffy's hair platinum blonde during season 4...I mean, I like Buffy as a blonde, but I thought this color was overkill, and too fakey looking.....though I would agree that in pre-Gone season 6 her hair looked best--though it was also a more natural blonde, kind of golden and flowy...

Well, this is a Buffy fan club, so I guess discussing her hair is on-topic! ;)

[LRae12]

Lol, me too--I too am "cursed" (though as long as they behave themselves I'm usually okay with them--and they're fun to play with! :lol: ) with naturally curly hair! But maybe that's partly why I dislike her hair in season 4, b/c it's so obvious it's crimped or whatever, and that it's fake....it kind of annoys me sometimes when people deliberatly do that to their hair! :p Whereas with Cordy in YW though, well I think CC's hair naturally has some curl to the ends of her hair, and maybe b/c it was a natural color as well, but it seemed more natural-looking to me, and nice...but I also think it may have to do with the way they dyed Buffy's hair platinum blonde during season 4...I mean, I like Buffy as a blonde, but I thought this color was overkill, and too fakey looking.....though I would agree that in pre-Gone season 6 her hair looked best--though it was also a more natural blonde, kind of golden and flowy...

Well, this is a Buffy fan club, so I guess discussing her hair is on-topic! ;)

:lol: ok, then we should form the curly club or something...:roll:

Actually, discussing Buffy's hair should be a subject for discussion in the Buffy fan club...so what other Buffy-hair do you all like?

I just finished watching When She Was Bad, and her hair looked so cute in that episode! :) It was shorter than in S1, and it sort of had a little perk to it...(always wish mine could do that...) :p

[sherrilina]

:lol: ok, then we should form the curly club or something...:roll:

Actually, discussing Buffy's hair should be a subject for discussion in the Buffy fan club...so what other Buffy-hair do you all like?

I just finished watching When She Was Bad, and her hair looked so cute in that episode! :) It was shorter than in S1, and it sort of had a little perk to it...(always wish mine could do that...) :p
It was kind of cute, especially when she was tilting her head at the Bronze to toy with Angel and do the sexy dance with Xander....I don't really like her hair in season 1 though, as seen in the default banner, it was a bit drab...I think it's interesting how they didn't really make her hair that blonde at first, it was pretty brown or more dirty blonde, and then got blonder as time went on.....

I think the best hair was season 6 as I said, or season 5....it's weird how at the end of season 2 her hair begins to transition into the season 3 look! :lol: Lol, talking about hair is fun, maybe we should open up a general hair thread....

[LRae12]

I think the best hair was season 6 as I said, or season 5....it's weird how at the end of season 2 her hair begins to transition into the season 3 look! :lol:

I did too...but then when she cut it, I don't know it somehow looked too thin...like they used thinning shears and not just regular scissors. But it looked thin from there on out, it never returned to the fullness it had in the HSchool years or pre-Gone. I wonder if she had extensions or anything at some time before Gone? eh, who knows...:p

[vampmogs]

I never thought Buffy looked "hot" in s6, before Gone or afterwards. I think she has always looked better with blonde hair. IMO in s6 she looked rather pale, I wasn't a fan of her hair and she didn't wear sexy clothes IMO, rather drab and dark clothes although I guess that suited her character at the time. Basically she looked; dead, the look they were going for perhaps?

Out of all the season promotion shots I think s6 was her worst, she was pretty but wasn't hot. I think SMG/Buffy was at her hottest during s1, s3, s5 and s7 of the show. But really we must discuss something other than her looks or this is just going to turn into a Buffy version of the Spike obsessed thread over at Buffyworld :p

To start off a new conversation, what do people make of Buffy’s more controversial choices; as for example, trying to kill Faith, deciding to kill Anya and saying she would allow all her friends and the world die rather than kill Dawn?

I agree with her decisions in the first two but don’t believe she made the right decision about Dawn, although it is 100% understandable.

[ykickamoocow]

I never thought Buffy looked "hot" in s6, before Gone or afterwards. I think she has always looked better with blonde hair. IMO in s6 she looked rather pale, I wasn't a fan of her hair and she didn't wear sexy clothes IMO, rather drab and dark clothes although I guess that suited her character at the time. Basically she looked; dead, the look they were going for perhaps?


I agree. I dont know how anyone can say she looked hot in season 6 compared to all the other seasons. I think she looked her worst in season 6 but i do think that was the point as i dont think Buffy really cared about her appearance for most of season 6.

[redrevo]

saying she would allow all her friends and the world die rather than kill Dawn

I agree with her decision here. She didn't want to become a killer, a monster like she had been told all year and went catatonic because of it. She would rather go out with the rest of the world rather than sacrifice another person she loves for the world (this time human) - which she was afraid would turn her into a cold-blooded murderer and just a channel of the first slayer, rather than Buffy with her friends, her family, and her life.

She was tired of having to sacrifice the people that made the world worthwhile in her eyes (at least at the time), for the world itself. You might still disagree because of the number of lives lost by the decision but I think it's just a slight difference of opinion, as we know she never had to actually make that choice, and chose the third option (yes, there's always a third option!).

[Alucard]

To get the ball rolling, I thought we could chat about which Buffy you liked best. Was it eager, uncertain highschool Buffy? The savvy Buffy who fought the mayor? The seasoned warrior in Series 7? Or the flawed and brave Buffy of season six?

Sign me up, please :), She’s also my favourite character of the series and like Adam I'll defend her in most instances, I'm glad this thread is back :)

As for which Buffy I liked best, I like them all in some way but my favourite would have to be either Season 2 Buffy or Season 5, Both seasons had major things which affected her character and seeing how she dealt really shaped the person she would become, I think Buffys character is usually best when she isn't in a relationship and when she has problems.

[vampmogs]

Sign me up, please :), She’s also my favourite character of the series and like Adam I'll defend her in most instances, I'm glad this thread is back :)

As for which Buffy I liked best, I like them all in some way but my favourite would have to be either Season 2 Buffy or Season 5, Both seasons had major things which affected her character and seeing how she dealt really shaped the person she would become, I think Buffys character is usually best when she isn't in a relationship and when she has problems.

Couldn't agree more, Buffy that isn't in a relationship is a Buffy I love :D She is more about herself, more confident and worries about the big picture and I enjoy this Buffy most of all.

[Vampmaster]

Sign me up please! Buffy has always been amongst my favorite characters in the series and the fact that SMG is hot doesn't exactly make it hard to like her either lol...

To start off a new conversation, what do people make of Buffy’s more controversial choices; as for example, trying to kill Faith, deciding to kill Anya and saying she would allow all her friends and the world die rather than kill Dawn?


I agree with Buffy's decision to kill Faith. Though I will admit that it has been a while since I have watched Season 3. Faith was completely out of control. She was killing people and at this period of time there just didn't seem to be any signs of remorse from Faith. I think had I of been in Buffy place I'd have made the same decision. After all as Giles I believe stated "There is nothing more dangerous than a rogue Slayer"

I also agree with her decision to kill Anya. She had reverted back to being a vengeance demon and once Anya had killed. She had crossed the line and I think that Buffy was right in her decision to go and kill her. Though it pains me to say so since I love Anya...

As for her decision to kill Dawn. I have to disagree with you Vampmogs. I think Buffy might have made what seemed like the selfish decision, but she certainly made the decision that most poeple would make. I think Buffy's decision showed that she was still human. That she still had feelings...

Besides Dawn was Human what was happening was her fault. She was essentially a helpless little girl.... She didn't intentionally mean for what happened. Something which IMO makes her different from Faith and even Angel/Angelus

[Alucard]

To start off a new conversation, what do people make of Buffy’s more controversial choices; as for example, trying to kill Faith, deciding to kill Anya and saying she would allow all her friends and the world die rather than kill Dawn?

I sort of a agree with her decision for trying to kill Faith, Faith was almost unstoppable, The police couldn't stop her and the Watchers Council failed in detaining her, Buffy was the only one who could match Faith in skill and strength and Faith was not going to put her hands up willingly so it was always going to end in a fight, If Buffy hadn't of done what she did she would have had to deal with Faith killing more people on her conscience when she could have done something about it.

As for Anya I agree mostly with Buffy's decision to kill Anya, I think it was a very tough decision for her because of Anya being one of her best friends but its sort of the same problem as Faith, The police wouldn't be able to stop a demon and I think on both occasions Anya had a choice whether to become a demon, It was a matter of time that Buffy would have to do something about it when there was lives at stake.

The decision not kill Dawn and let the world end, I don't really know what to say about it, I kinda agree and disagree with it, Letting Dawn live would have killed billions as well as Buffy and her friends which is wrong, But Buffy at that point in time had lost a lot of things she loved and she wasn't going to see Dawn die and I can imagine that we would not our family to die.

The last question is such a tough one, While I think it was wrong to let the world die because she couldn't bring her self or let anyone kill Dawn, It was understandable that she came to that decision, At that point in her her life she felt that doing the right thing meant losing what she loved most.

[Vampmaster]

So to start a new conversation....

Did everyone enjoy the serious leader Buffy of Season 7...? or did some of you feel like it ruined the charrie...?

[LRae12]

Season 7 Buffy was annoying. Her speechifying really turned me off to her character in S7. Then there was the letting the whiny potentials push her around and I think that just made for the ridiculous. In Showtime she finally stood up to them, but I dis-liked her in that episode and most that followed. She became too hard and closed off. I enjoyed earlier-seasons Buffy who still had some light to her. After her resurrection she was never the same, but S6 Buffy was still at least somewhat like her former self. S7 Buffy seemed like a completely different character IMO.

[redrevo]

I really don't enjoy it. While her first speech in Bring On the Night was good, for the rest of the time she just sort of lost her sense of humor around the potentials. It kind of ruined the image of Buffy being the hero who subverted what everyone thought a hero would be like - supported by friends at every turn, having real-life issues, being funny...I thought her speeches in Showtime and Potential were really not worth it. She pretty much became the martinet, not bothering to support her friends who were giving her strength the whole time, and instead speechified because she was worried about evil. It was in character for her to be worried and kind of close herself off considering the First was apparently unstoppable, but to act superior was definitely not something she would do.

[vampmogs]

Season 7 Buffy was annoying. Her speechifying really turned me off to her character in S7. Then there was the letting the whiny potentials push her around and I think that just made for the ridiculous. In Showtime she finally stood up to them, but I dis-liked her in that episode and most that followed. She became too hard and closed off. I enjoyed earlier-seasons Buffy who still had some light to her. After her resurrection she was never the same, but S6 Buffy was still at least somewhat like her former self. S7 Buffy seemed like a completely different character IMO.

How does this really work though? You state it as ridiculous that she allowed the potentials to push her around but then say you didn't like her when she stood up to them. Buffy partly became so closed off because she was put in a leadership position and was leading people who didn't particularly like or trust her. After a while I'd become rather close off and hardened if I was trying to protect a bunch of girls who were incredibly bratty, ungreatful and untrusting of me. Buffy put herself out there earlier in the season, in particular Bring It On and Showtime and had them gossiping and bitching behind her back.

I really don't enjoy it. While her first speech in Bring On the Night was good, for the rest of the time she just sort of lost her sense of humor around the potentials. It kind of ruined the image of Buffy being the hero who subverted what everyone thought a hero would be like - supported by friends at every turn, having real-life issues, being funny...I thought her speeches in Showtime and Potential were really not worth it. She pretty much became the martinet, not bothering to support her friends who were giving her strength the whole time, and instead speechified because she was worried about evil. It was in character for her to be worried and kind of close herself off considering the First was apparently unstoppable, but to act superior was definitely not something she would do.

The potentials wanted Buffy to be this great hero, someone who could protect them. IMO acting superior was the only way Buffy knew how to try and resemble this iconic thing they had all imagned before meeting her. The first thing Kennedy does is say "this is the slayer.. huh?" as if Buffy somehow didn't live up to her expectations. That has to be incredibly hard for her, so I think that her behvaiour is natural and understandable.

I get why she was tense, she has always had the weight of the world on her shoulders but this time she was face to face with a group of girls she was responsible for protecting. Their lives where on her hands and as Xander sardonically quips, "But no pressure!" I mean Buffy had a hell out a lot of pressure on her, she had girls bitching constantly, she had a unkillable foe with a enormous army of ubervamps and people were leaving Sunnydale. Not to mention people like Giles and Wood going behind her back and people like Faith coming back into her lives who had been so wrong to her, yet strangley the potentials liked better.

[sherrilina]

I get why she was tense, she has always had the weight of the world on her shoulders but this time she was face to face with a group of girls she was responsible for protecting. Their lives where on her hands and as Xander sardonically quips, "But no pressure!" I mean Buffy had a hell out a lot of pressure on her, she had girls bitching constantly, she had a unkillable foe with a enormous army of ubervamps and people were leaving Sunnydale. Not to mention people like Giles and Wood going behind her back and people like Faith coming back into her lives who had been so wrong to her, yet strangley the potentials liked better.
I agree, it's understandable why Buffy is the way she is in season 7--however, it wasn't necessarily enjoyable, and I do think it ruined her character a bit at least as far as my enjoyment of her character. She just wasn't as fun to watch, even if this new self could be justified and understood. Even in season 6, when she sank to new dark depths, she still had some sense of humor, dark as it had become (like the joke about burnign the house down for insurance).

So I get why Buffy became that way, I do--I just didn't enjoy her character as much in the seventh season.

Though from what I've seen of her character in the comics I've read so far, I don't know that I really enjoy her character in "season 8" either....

[LRae12]

How does this really work though? You state it as ridiculous that she allowed the potentials to push her around but then say you didn't like her when she stood up to them.

No I didn't say I didn't like her. I never 'disliked' her. I disliked the way her character became in S7, starting in Showtime. I was glad that she stood up to them, but after this point we kind of lost the Buffy we knew and loved. She became, I don't know, just different from who she had been...Sherrilina sums it up nicely here...

it's understandable why Buffy is the way she is in season 7--however, it wasn't necessarily enjoyable, and I do think it ruined her character a bit at least as far as my enjoyment of her character. She just wasn't as fun to watch, even if this new self could be justified and understood. Even in season 6, when she sank to new dark depths, she still had some sense of humor, dark as it had become (like the joke about burnign the house down for insurance).

So I get why Buffy became that way, I do--I just didn't enjoy her character as much in the seventh season.




That's pretty much what I was getting at, just in less eloquent terms...;)

[vampmogs]

I agree, it's understandable why Buffy is the way she is in season 7--however, it wasn't necessarily enjoyable, and I do think it ruined her character a bit at least as far as my enjoyment of her character. She just wasn't as fun to watch, even if this new self could be justified and understood. Even in season 6, when she sank to new dark depths, she still had some sense of humor, dark as it had become (like the joke about burnign the house down for insurance).

I still think she had somewhat of a sense of humour, she was very happy at work when she could talk to Wood, and was very happy and humorous in her conversation with Willow and Xander during First Date.

So I get why Buffy became that way, I do--I just didn't enjoy her character as much in the seventh season.

And that's perfectly within your rights. The only thing that annoys me is those who say she was a bitch for no reason.. then I have a problem :D

Though from what I've seen of her character in the comics I've read so far, I don't know that I really enjoy her character in "season 8" either....

Really? I think she is great in s8. She has a great relationship with all of the new slayers so far and yet still has respect from them the potentials in Sunnydale never gave her. They repsect her and yet like her at the same time. She is also extremely enjoyable with Xander and Willow, being very friendly with them and their interaction is just great. I smiled the whole way through Issue #3 when she and Willow were hugging one another and laughing. I also found it extremely moving to see how concerned she was about Willow and how determined she was to stay with her no matter what. I loved how she kicked a whole army faction's arse just to get to her friend. S8 Buffy so far is my favourite Buffy for a long time.

[redrevo]

Regarding the "everyone sucks but me speech" which I just watched, and speech!Buffy:

I hate to say it but I pretty much agreed with Buffy on the potentials. The First was going to get more powerful, but they were being beaten by words from an illusion. They were lost without Buffy and they needed to find their own strength in order for anything at all to happen. Why she got after the Scoobs and not just the potentials, I don't know. But the potentials really needed to step it up. I don't know if she gets worse later but it's really not that terrible so far, even though you can see the speeches coming a mile away.

[vampmogs]

Regarding the "everyone sucks but me speech" which I just watched, and speech!Buffy:

I hate to say it but I pretty much agreed with Buffy on the potentials. The First was going to get more powerful, but they were being beaten by words from an illusion. They were lost without Buffy and they needed to find their own strength in order for anything at all to happen. Why she got after the Scoobs and not just the potentials, I don't know. But the potentials really needed to step it up. I don't know if she gets worse later but it's really not that terrible so far, even though you can see the speeches coming a mile away.

Is this your first time watching s7?

I agree with most of what Buffy says as well, especially her hardened stance with the potentials. Lets face it, they aren't going to win the war by being too scared to act out and take a stand. Most of the potentials wanted to sit back in the safety (of the not so safe) house and expected Buffy to miraculously come up with a way to defeat the First and protect them. Buffy was clearly upset about Chloe's death, but she was right in being angry and trying to stir the potentials up as well. What exactly were they doing to contribute? They had a lot to say but they didn't try and make anything better. Buffy wanted them to surprise themselves, not to be talked into a death.

As far as the scoobies, well I think it is understandable the way she reacted. It would be frustrating knowing Willow has all this power and yet isn't able to use it; and yet Buffy never faults her on that even though she shows her frustration. Anya makes rude comments out of nowhere and barley contributes anything until Buffy jumps through the portal, forcing the others to finally act and show their potential. I don't think Spike's attitude was that good either, walking out during Buffy's speech because he didn't think it implied to him shows a lack of commitment or concern for what is going on.

This was really what Buffy's jumping through the portal was all about, Willow says that Buffy knows there is no other way but for her to act. She makes the scoobies act and they demonstrate they can be of extreme use if they push themselves; Buffy brought it out of them.

[redrevo]

Is this your first time watching s7?
Yup.
It would be frustrating knowing Willow has all this power and yet isn't able to use it; and yet Buffy never faults her on that even though she shows her frustration.
Oh. I somehow got the vibe that she was somewhat blaming Willow - "a Wicca who won't-a" comes to mind. It just seems as though she's saying Willow -won't- use her powers to their full potential as opposed to -can't-, even though she has to be rescued every time to keep her from turning evil. I don't think Spike's attitude was that good either, walking out during Buffy's speech because he didn't think it implied to him shows a lack of commitment or concern for what is going on.
I never thought of Spike as a Scooby anyway (hehe), so we're clear on that. :) I agree in this case as well, Spike was holding back.

This was really what Buffy's jumping through the portal was all about, Willow says that Buffy knows there is no other way but for her to act. She makes the scoobies act and they demonstrate they can be of extreme use if they push themselves; Buffy brought it out of them.
Yeah, I thought that was a pretty neat thought process on Buffy's part - like locking your senior executives in a room until they can make a sundial out of a pencil and a donut </obscure Dilbert reference>.

[vampmogs]

Yup.

Sigh. I wish I had new Buffy to watch.. at least I've gotten s8 comics :D

Oh. I somehow got the vibe that she was somewhat blaming Willow - "a Wicca who won't-a" comes to mind. It just seems as though she's saying Willow -won't- use her powers to their full potential as opposed to -can't-, even though she has to be rescued every time to keep her from turning evil.

Yeah but she said that to Robin and not Willow, so she didn't make Willow feel bad. She was obviously frustrated but I think she understood or she would have tried to put pressure on Willow to use all her power. If anything I think Buffy understands Willow's situation better than Willow herself. Buffy was always trying to put Willow into situations to use her power. The first being in Get It Done when she goes through the portal, causing Willow to act. The second being in Dirty Girls which you are yet to see, when she says tells Willow she can keep the other girls safe. The third and most important being Chosen when she states she believes Willow can do the spell and she can, Buffy was right Willow just needed to believe in herself.

I never thought of Spike as a Scooby anyway (hehe), so we're clear on that. :) I agree in this case as well, Spike was holding back.

Well neither do I, I just figured I'd label him as one in comparison to the potentials :) However, I don't agree with Spike's whole "cool sequence" of putting his leather jacket back on and embracing the killer in him, because that leather coat is resembles his evil past and is a killer trophy. I think this is a perfect example of Spike being Buffy's lapdog, she tells him to unleash the killer within because he was a better fighter then and that's what they need, so he does it, soul or no soul.

Yeah, I thought that was a pretty neat thought process on Buffy's part - like locking your senior executives in a room until they can make a sundial out of a pencil and a donut </obscure Dilbert reference>.

Well yeah exactly, Buffy needed the scoobies to step up to the plate and they did. I think Buffy deserves some credit for her everyone sucks but me speech. She knew what she was talking about and even apologises for being as harsh as she was.

[sherrilina]

I still think she had somewhat of a sense of humour, she was very happy at work when she could talk to Wood, and was very happy and humorous in her conversation with Willow and Xander during First Date.
True--not to mention the great scene of her balancing a pencil holder on her forehead during work--but these scenes are early on, and few and far between--and most people don't like First Date anyway, though I do like it partly b/c it's funny and I liked seeing a bit of humor again, not to mention all the funny tension regarding Spike and Wood! :xd Same with Him....but overall, she wasn't as funny and enjoyable as usual.


Really? I think she is great in s8. She has a great relationship with all of the new slayers so far and yet still has respect from them the potentials in Sunnydale never gave her. They repsect her and yet like her at the same time. She is also extremely enjoyable with Xander and Willow, being very friendly with them and their interaction is just great. I smiled the whole way through Issue #3 when she and Willow were hugging one another and laughing. I also found it extremely moving to see how concerned she was about Willow and how determined she was to stay with her no matter what. I loved how she kicked a whole army faction's arse just to get to her friend. S8 Buffy so far is my favourite Buffy for a long time.
Well I haven't read issue 3 yet--they didn't have it at the store, but from the first two issues her character didn't seem like anything special--though so far I don't think the comics are really anything special period! :p Maybe once I read this magical third issue everything will change....;)

And re: Chloe--what the hell was she doing running off when it wasn't safe into the clutches of an ubervamp?! I was just as annoyed with her as Buffy was.....

[Pandora's_Box]

Buffy always been my favorite character of the show...
The thing I like the most about a character and more generally a show is evolution, development. I like to see the character growing-up, evolve but still being the same person...I like all the Buffy(ies) but she got older like I did so when I was young I liked High School Buffy, her jokes, her fresh spirit and already the little things which made her older like at the end of Becoming part II, I like College Buffy, more wise and strangely more fragile. I enjoyed Season 5 Buffy, becoming an older sister and pretty much a mother without being prepared so full of fear and doubts. I loved Season 6 Buffy, destroying herself, more insecured than ever but trying to survive and enjoy life like before. And I SO loved Buffy in Season 7, a beautiful woman, behind her own choices, full of strenght and love, passionate and forgiving....
For me Buffy is the most complex, lovable and intersting character ever...Honestly except her fringe in Amends there's anything I didn't like about her...
I'd like to be added though.

[redrevo]

Two discs later, I've come to the conclusion that "generalissimo!Buffy" was not loads of fun to watch, but necessary for the evolution of the character - it was important that she progressively slip farther and farther away from her friends, then fail as a leader in order for her to realize that, like herself, the potentials didn't need a leader; they could be strong without a controlling force, just the way she was. It was kind of ironic that Faith was the first to figure this out, though (this was shown when she made a sarcastic comment about Chao-Ahn being leader). I still have not watched Chosen (although through reading this forum I've been spoiled for it, my own fault of course) but hear it will have some major collectivistic themes which would close up the arc pretty well.

[Anon]

The single most important line in season 7 is in Chosen where Buffy states:
No. Yeah. I just realized something. Something that really never occurred to me before. We're gonna win.

This shows pretty much exactly what's going on. It's not just that Buffy was becoming increasing isolated or detached during the season, it was that she'd given up. All those speeches and talk about 'the mission' where simply her way of trying to stop others from doing the same. That's also why she was such a bitch about Chloe after her death. Chloe gave up, which was exactly what she was trying to avoid.

She distanced herself from the potentials because she thought they were all doomed and if she let herself care about them, the pain when they all died would be unbearable for her.

[vampmogs]

This shows pretty much exactly what's going on. It's not just that Buffy was becoming increasing isolated or detached during the season, it was that she'd given up. All those speeches and talk about 'the mission' where simply her way of trying to stop others from doing the same. That's also why she was such a bitch about Chloe after her death. Chloe gave up, which was exactly what she was trying to avoid.

I agree that she was feeling more and more detached as the season went on :) It kind of fits in with what Faith says in Empty Places when she says;

"And there I was, everyone was looking at me to lead them and I've never felt more alone in my entire life. And that's you everyday isn't it?"

Not only is it so great for Faith and Buffy to finally have an understanding of eachother but it sums up Buffy's situation perfectly. Buffy has always felt alone even with just the scoobs because she is alone, now she was a leader of multiple girls as well as just her friends, all looking at her to lead them, seperating her from all the others. She just felt very lonely, as as you said the closer she got the more pain she felt. I believe she states something like this in Touched?

[spuffylove147]

I'm signing up!

i would just like to go on the record as saying that i think buffy is actually one of the most underappreciated characters. people give her such a hard time all the time but simply because she's the one who has to make all the hard decisions. the others have the luxery of not saying anything or defending the undefendable (similar to what willow said at the beginning of season 7). I think she's a very deep and flawed and amazing character. I think there is a good reason she is the main character.

[Maria]

I think it's about time I made a commitment here:lol: I've been reading posts made on this thread and wondering what I can say about my favourite character that you all haven't already said. I decided I don't have to say much and just sign up. :)

One of the things I loved about Buffy is that she's unpredictable, and this I guess is because her enemies can easily underestimate this petite young woman. " But you're just a girl." And I had a good laugh at Spike's frustration when he was at his "kill the slayer phase."

I am also biased when it comes to Buffy. I see her as my fictional daughter. :lol: I disagree with some of her choices and decisions but she somehow manages to survive the consequences. Probably because she is unpredictable. She refused to take orders and did things her way. And Kendra told her : "No wonder you died." But later it was poor Kendra who did not live very long.

I also liked that though Buffy totally loved her friends, she was also a very private and cautious person. For instance, she seemed not to acknowledge Tara much in the beginning but when things were rough for Tara, Buffy put herself between the danger and Tara. I think that is a great aspect of her character. Okay that's all for now.

[Kold]

Aww... add me...

Buffy really is a great character. She's a strong female -- not just physically strong, but, despite what a lot of people say, of a very strong will and character. The strength of Buffy is so apparent in the earlier seasons -- at times when she takes on the huge stuff but is still not old enough to really deal with the big things emotionally... but she does them. She makes the huge sacrifices, with more clarity than she gets in her later, more confusing years, but with less thought about the big questions.

Some of my favourite Buffy moments are her acceptance in Prophecy Girl, her strength in Innocence and Becoming, her comeback in Anne, her choice in Graduation Day, her utter determination to save Dawn in The Gift, even when she's really thinking about the "big question", and the confusion she faces in episodes like Selfless and Conversations with Dead People, in which she has to grapple with her power and her role.

I feel that Buffy is quite slighted by fans, undeservedly. As a character, she herself has to bear more than any other the others, like Angel on his show. She does so with a stalwartness that almost always shows itself even when it seems like her problems won't allow it.

[buffyholic]

I also like Buffy a lot as a character and most of the times, I´m on her side. Buffy is someone who grows from season to season. Although her friends are there for her, they can never be fully there because they don´t understand how the life of a slayer is lonely and filled with hard decisions. Season 1 sees Buffy accept that but it´s in season 2 that her transformation really kicks in. Her decisions haunt and chane her view on things, how she is always alone in her choices and how the world is a grey area. Season 2 she begins to have her internal demons and that doesn´t stop until the end. And that for me, is something good because she is a very flawed human being and a hero who always has to make the decisions no one will do. Season 6 is very important because it shows her how to deal with her life, as a human being trying to stand on her own.

[Enisy]

I adore Buffy. She's my favourite character in the series, tied with Spike. I think she was at her best in Season 5 -- brave and funny and selfless -- but there's not one season in which I could honestly say I disliked her. Even the controversial Buffy of Season 7 was understandable and sympathetic to me, more often than not, and she managed to reach a great place by the end of Chosen, emotionally. Love the girl, that's it.

Some questions to start the ball rolling:

Which episode do you consider the best character study of Buffy?

What's your favourite Buffy-centric 'ship? Least favourite?

When do you think Buffy looked her best? (on a purely physical level, never mind her character development)

[redrevo]

Which episode do you consider the best character study of Buffy?

Spiral/WotW/The Gift - they are far above anything else IMO. Especially in conjunction with the rest of the season (which, I agree with you, was her best), where Buffy struggled with her darkness, to see her fall to her lowest point and rise up to the most noble was indescribably fun (searching for a better word) to watch. I have always been a fan of Buffy and Dawn, and what Buffy did in The Gift was far above heroism.

What's your favourite Buffy-centric 'ship? Least favourite?

In terms of romantic 'ships, Buffy/Riley - the one that didn't make her miserable until it stopped. Least favorite has to be Buffy/Spike with B/A a very close second - both have a hearty dollop of bad writing, but Spike hurt her character, both literally and in a "story" sense.

[buffyholic]

CWD and Restless - Her dream in Restless gave us a lot of clues about what she feels and about her slayer side. From then on, she began to search for answers on her slayer lineage, were there others slayers and how they were? This opened a question to be solved in the wonderful season five.
CWDP - This was also an episode that gave us insights on what she feels. She has an inferiority complex about her superiority. Wonderful stuff.

I love all her relationships. They all come in a very different state for her but I must admit that Riley was one that Buffy always wanted the most, since the beginning of the show. Normal girl with a normal boyfriend.

Her best physically is in "No Place Like Home".

[Moscow Watcher]

Which episode do you consider the best character study of Buffy?

I adore the final arc that starts with Dirty Girls and ends with Chosen. Buffy goes from the ultimate failure to the ultimate triumph. We see her acting under enormous stress - and she makes it. Like Spike said "A hell of a woman".

What's your favourite Buffy-centric 'ship? Least favourite?

Spuffy is my OTP. It's about love against all odds, hope and redemption.
Least favorite - does Parker count? :)

[vampmogs]

Which episode do you consider the best character study of Buffy?

Mmm hard to say. I'm not sure you'd count it as a 'character study' but I am always very fond of 'Prophecy Girl' who how Buffy acts in that episode. Here she is a sixteen year old girl who's just been told she's going to die, and she does what you'd expect, she runs from the idea. She doesn't want to be anywhere near something that could lead to her death. But then she comes back and heroically is willing to take the Master down with her, even if it means she dies. I just love everything about Buffy in that episode, she was amazing.

What's your favourite Buffy-centric 'ship? Least favourite?

I like Buffy alone the best, but I guess I would say Buffy/Angel because IMO I think it's been the only one of her relationships thus far when she's been fully open and in love with whoever she was dating. I liked Riley/Buffy but like Angel a tiny bit more which is probably why I favour Buffy/Angel over Ruffy and I don't really like Buffy/Spike at all except for the occasional moment.

But yeah mainly, I like the girl on her own. She always seemed stronger to me that way.

When do you think Buffy looked her best? (on a purely physical level, never mind her character development)

Hmm.. another hard one. I'd say the first three seasons she probably looked her best, she had more curves and looked healthier and still had the cute puppy fat a bit. She was adorable in episodes such as 'Out of Mind Out of Sight.' I think she looked very pretty early during s5, she was amazing in 'Out of My Mind' and though she got a little too skinny in season 7 she looked hot! in 'Him.' But yeah, mainly first three seasons.. though she never really looked bad.

[OkinawanSteel]

Which episode do you consider the best character study of Buffy?

That's a tough question. I don't think any one episode encompasses her character completely. I feel that "The Gift" probably comes closest. To me, it pretty much sums up the entire premise of the show, and it obviously highlights Buffy's heroic side. I'm also particularly fond of "Restless" for its exploration of Buffy's slayer side and what it means to her.

What's your favourite Buffy-centric 'ship? Least favourite?

Of any kind? Well, Faith is my favourite character in the 'verse, and I absolutely adore their relationship, so I guess that's my favourite.

If you mean out of her three main boyfriend-type relationships, I don't have a favourite, I preferred the times Buffy wasn't with any of them.

When do you think Buffy looked her best? (on a purely physical level, never mind her character development)

Season 4 and beyond was when SMG started to lose too much weight. She began to look very emaciated. She looks good throughout S1 - S3, with S3 being the high point.

[Enisy]

Least favorite has to be Buffy/Spike with B/A a very close second - both have a hearty dollop of bad writing, but Spike hurt her character, both literally and in a "story" sense.

Hmm... do you mean Season 6 and Season 7? I think she was messed up before she got together with Spike in Season 6, because of the resurrection and the resulting misconceptions about her life and her power. And her issues in Season 7 had nothing whatsoever to do with her relationship with Spike; in fact, they had to do with her inability to maintain that (or any other) relationship, and with the isolation caused by her Slayer status (something she resolved in Chosen, with the empowerment spell).

Which episode do you consider the best character study of Buffy?

I've got a few... Restless ("I walk. I talk. I shop. I sneeze. I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back."); Conversations with Dead People ("You do have a superiority complex. And you've got an inferiority complex about it!"); The Gift ("Dawnie, I have to..."). For her shifting worldview in Season 6, Dead Things and Normal Again.

What's your favourite Buffy-centric 'ship? Least favourite?

My favourite is Spike/Buffy, no contest. She never wore rose-coloured glasses for Spike, and, I think, by the end of Season 7, he was more her equal than any other partner of hers (which was pointed out by Joss Whedon himself: "He's more on her level [than Angel].") Plus I like the snark, which was sorely lacking in her other two relationships.

My least favourite... is probably Riley/Buffy, although I didn't really dislike any Buffy-centric 'ship.

When do you think Buffy looked her best? (on a purely physical level, never mind her character development)

Season 4, Season 5, Season 6, in that order. She was too young for me to consider her anything but "cute" in seasons 1-3, and in Season 7, she didn't have very flattering haircuts, or wear very flattering clothes.

[Nostalgia]

Shouldn't everyone been in this ship? I mean if you enjoy the show.. I find it very rude and confusing to not enjoy the main character.

Someone please add me to the list, by the way.

Buffy is such an amazing character. It's fascinating to see a 17 year old girl take on such unbelievable forces of evil and the things that we are told aren't real. She is one of the most brave characters I've ever seen.. and even when we saw her dark side in season 6.. I still loved her. She has shown that she'd do anything for her friends and family, and as shown already, saving the world by sacrifice is one those things on her list.

Some of my favorite Buffy moments-

Prophecy Girl- when she is crying.. it's one of the saddest moments of the series. I can't even imagine what a girl would be feeling. Yet, the most beautiful part is that she stands up against the Master still. This really sucked me into her character.. and how truly brave she really was. A sophomore in high school throwing her life on the line to fight some ancient demon? How many of us would run away?

Helpless- I really feel bad for her in this episode as well. I love her interaction with Giles.. and their father-daughter relationship. I will always love this episode.. a top 10 for me.

The Gift- I don't think there's any argument that this was Buffy's best performance as a character. Sacrifice for her sister, her friends, and the world around her. Actually, the episode as a whole is amazing, but the last 5 minutes really do it for me the most.

As I said before, I even love her dark side.. and how she hates to live. She's such a diverse character in terms of writing.. because you could change her persona and still make it believable.

No other slayer has even matched up to her.. and I don't believe anyone will ever in the future.

I think Buffy looked her best in season 7, specifically "Touched."

[buffyholic]

I forgot to put least favorite. I´m not sure because even Parker was a good mini plot for her. I absolutely love how they deal with that experience. I have to say least favourite is Buffy/Scott Hope, although it´s nice to see her with just a normal guy.

[Nostalgia]

As for ships.. I absolutely love all of her ships. I never fell into the Bangel vs Spuffy.. because I love both dearly. If I had to choose one, I'd pick Spuffy. As Enisy already explained, I loved their paling around so to speak.. exchanging snarky remarks with eachother.. but always maintaining that strong connection. I love the way they come to eachother for comfort.. and it wasn't really forced.. as with Bangel it was more boyfriend/girlfriend.

Although I love Bangel too.. I love the romance of the two.. and I specifically love Bangel so much because I love Angel so much.. and I love the way he treats her. I loved the rocky road, and I love the passion between the two.

I'd say my least would be Ruffy, but I even enjoyed Ruffy.. there's not one Buffy relationship I don't like.

I'm very interested in Bander too.

[Nina]

Which episode do you consider the best character study of Buffy?
I don't think that there is one episode, so I can't answer this one. But I think that the little conversations with Angel in episodes like 'Ted' or 'What's my Line' are really important. We learn somethin about her feelings and who she was/is.

What's your favourite Buffy-centric 'ship? Least favourite?
Buffy and Angel. Angel was maybe a vampire and older and bla bla bla, but he understood her in a way that the other two never did. Besides, Angel tried hard to be a good boyfriend and they were equal, they both loved eachother a lot. Besides, it's the only relationship where Buffy really opens up.

least; Spike and Buffy, a relation which destroyed the main character of the series.

When do you think Buffy looked her best?
SMG is a beautiful woman,
Season 1-4 are the seasons where she looked healthy. I loved her hair in season 4 but I think that she looked the best in season 1. In season 6 and 7 you can see how thin she became, which fitted with the character but it was so unhealthy and almost scary.

[Enisy]

Although I love Bangel too.. I love the romance of the two.. and I specifically love Bangel so much because I love Angel so much.. and I love the way he treats her. I loved the rocky road, and I love the passion between the two.

What I didn't really like about Angel/Buffy was its setup (or lack thereof -- more like Instant Love), and Angel himself (who, ironically, became one of my favourite characters once he got his own show). What I do like about it is its sense of tragedy and its epic, heartrending moments (I Will Remember You, Amends, Becoming #2).

least; Spike and Buffy, a relation which destroyed the main character of the series.

As above, a skeptical "hmm".

In season 6 and 7 you can see how thin she became, which fitted with the character but it was so unhealthy and almost scary.

And Sarah Michelle Gellar just keeps getting thinner and thinner. She was still beautiful at the end of Buffy, but seeing some of her recent photoshoots, I can finally sympathise with Pat's "eek".

I forgot to put least favorite. I´m not sure because even Parker was a good mini plot for her. I absolutely love how they deal with that experience.

I agree. Interesting that she gets the metaphor for the boyfriend who doesn't call, and then she gets the actual boyfriend who doesn't call.

[redrevo]

Hmm... do you mean Season 6 and Season 7? I think she was messed up before she got together with Spike in Season 6, because of the resurrection and the resulting misconceptions about her life and her power. And her issues in Season 7 had nothing whatsoever to do with her relationship with Spike; in fact, they had to do with her inability to maintain that (or any other) relationship, and with the isolation caused by her Slayer status (something she resolved in Chosen, with the empowerment spell).


Season 6: She was messed up, sure, but that could've easily been fixed by more time with her friends around the time of the 4th disc. "You came back wrong," "That's not your world - you belong in the shadows" and "Poor little lost girl" (with the beyond-unbelievable "I'm in love with you" right afterwards) come to mind.

Season 7: That was just bad writing until Buffy started acting like a monster. Fine, she doesn't let Wood kill Spike - even though he killed Wood's mother and is wearing her coat, for god's sake - but then she threatens to kill Wood? Even though the mission is what matters? The point was to make her estranged, not evil.

[Enisy]

Season 6: She was messed up, sure, but that could've easily been fixed by more time with her friends around the time of the 4th disc. "You came back wrong," "That's not your world - you belong in the shadows" and "Poor little lost girl" (with the beyond-unbelievable "I'm in love with you" right afterwards) come to mind.

Spike only prolonged Buffy's "off" phase; he didn't cause it. And yeah, his behaviour was pretty horrible, but so was hers, even before he accused her of coming back wrong -- in fact, there's basis to believe that the switch in his behaviour was instigated by hers ("I know that I'm a monster, but you treat me like a man" --> "You're not a man. You're a thing.") And at the end of the day, Season 6 was necessary for Buffy to become an adult and regain her sense of purpose ("I don't want to protect you from the world... I want to show it to you"), which she had lost by the end of Season 5, and for Spike to choose between the monster and the man (by seeking out his soul).

Season 7: That was just bad writing until Buffy started acting like a monster. Fine, she doesn't let Wood kill Spike - even though he killed Wood's mother and is wearing her coat, for god's sake - but then she threatens to kill Wood? Even though the mission is what matters? The point was to make her estranged, not evil.

Speculation has it that Buffy was bluffing in order to get Wood to abandon his vendetta and focus on the more important, apocalypse-y matters -- and it worked.


Questions:

Which of the show's writers (barring Joss Whedon) do you think writes Buffy best?

What Buffy-centric 'ships that we didn't get on the show would you have liked to see?

[redrevo]

Spike only prolonged Buffy's "off" phase; he didn't cause it. And yeah, his behaviour was pretty horrible, but so was hers, even before he accused her of coming back wrong -- in fact, there's basis to believe that the switch in his behaviour was instigated by hers ("I know that I'm a monster, but you treat me like a man" --> "You're not a man. You're a thing.")

When was she horrible before they kissed? Before Spike somehow misinterpreted "This isn't real"?

And at the end of the day, Season 6 was necessary for Buffy to become an adult and regain her sense of purpose ("I don't want to protect you from the world... I want to show it to you"), which she had lost by the end of Season 5, and for Spike to choose between the monster and the man (by seeking out his soul).

Buffy *lost* her sense of purpose at the end of season 5? Sorry, but what show were you watching? In Bargaining, the tower is distinctly shown to represent the beauty and clarity of purpose Buffy had when she died.

The monster-man thing had already happened in "The Gift." Spike inexplicably turned into some Angelus-esque mind gamer who loved to bring Buffy down during the events following OMWF.

Speculation has it that Buffy was bluffing in order to get Wood to abandon his vendetta and focus on the more important, apocalypse-y matters -- and it worked.


Speculation has it Buffy doesn't seriously threaten death to get someone's attention, especially when she already has it. "I'm going to kick your ass" was pretty much the worst thing she said to anyone she didn't intend to kill. No reason not to throw them both into the wall a la The Yoko Factor and lecture them both equally... but no, Spike doesn't get a single word about beating up/killing the good guys either.

Also, Spike seemed pretty into the vendetta thing himself, and Buffy was all right with his (overwhelmingly not idle) threat. If he had one iota of compassion, he'd at least take the coat off. Wood was forced to look at it every day. But apparently having a soul didn't mean anything when it came to being sorry for killing people...

[Enisy]

Buffy *lost* her sense of purpose at the end of season 5? Sorry, but what show were you watching? In Bargaining, the tower is distinctly shown to represent the beauty and clarity of purpose Buffy had when she died.

Beyond "death being her gift"? Yeah, she had. Which is why she was so confused and disoriented about her resurrection; she thought she was "done", "finished".

Buffy: I knew. What was right. I don't have that any more. I don't understand. I don't know how to live in this world, if these are the choices, if everything's just stripped away then I don't see the point. (The Gift)

The monster-man thing had already happened in "The Gift." Spike inexplicably turned into some Angelus-esque mind gamer who loved to bring Buffy down during the events following OMWF.

Buffy stringing him along? Also kinda cruel. Taking into account how much Spike appreciated that "she treats him like a man", I don't think it's a coincidence that his abuse didn't hit a high until she flat-out told him "he's not a man", "he's an evil, disgusting thing" in Smashed. (Gotta clarify that I don't fault either of them; bad timing, is all.) Also, I think it was necessary to explore Spike's natural impulses and limitations (as a soulless vampire) in Season 6, because leaving him as he was in late Season 5/early Season 6 would have seriously blurred the lines between good and evil in the 'verse.

Speculation has it Buffy doesn't seriously threaten death to get someone's attention, especially when she already has it. "I'm going to kick your ass" was pretty much the worst thing she said to anyone she didn't intend to kill. No reason not to throw them both into the wall a la The Yoko Factor and lecture them both equally... but no, Spike doesn't get a single word about beating up/killing the good guys either.

Also, Spike seemed pretty into the vendetta thing himself, and Buffy was all right with his (overwhelmingly not idle) threat. If he had one iota of compassion, he'd at least take the coat off. Wood was forced to look at it every day. But apparently having a soul didn't mean anything when it came to being sorry for killing people...

Spike didn't want anything to do with Wood's vendetta. ("I don't give a piss about your mom. She was a Slayer, I was a vampire.") He was focused and prepared to fight by Buffy's side in what she considered their hardest battle yet, which Wood wasn't until she kicked some sense into him.

Which of the show's writers (barring Joss Whedon) do you think writes Buffy best?

Jane Espenson. (Although, interestingly, Jane Espenson thinks Marti Noxon is the one who writes Buffy the best.) She can write cute, funny Buffy (Life Serial, anyone?) she can write serious, introspective Buffy (After Life), she can write selfless, generous Buffy (Intervention). Just love her.

[redrevo]

Beyond "death being her gift"? Yeah, she had. Which is why she was so confused and disoriented about her resurrection; she thought she was "done", "finished".


"It was so clear... on this spot."
"Dawnie, I have to."
"I love you. I will always... love you... Tell Giles I figured it out, and I'm okay."

Buffy stringing him along? Also kinda cruel. Taking into account how much Spike appreciated that "she treats him like a man", I don't think it's a coincidence that his abuse didn't hit a high until she flat-out told him "he's not a man", "he's an evil, disgusting thing" in Smashed.
Stringing him along? Since when could the events of "Smashed" be considered anything but Buffy giving him a very clear rejection?

Also, Buffy stopped treating him like a man pretty much when he stopped acting like one. The man of season 5 was content to do whatever he could for Buffy and for Dawn. The monster of season 6 after OMWF wanted more - "I know what kind of girl you are"/"There are other ways..."

Also, I think it was necessary to explore Spike's natural impulses and limitations (as a soulless vampire) in Season 6, because leaving him as he was in late Season 5/early Season 6 would have seriously blurred the lines between good and evil in the 'verse.


I'd have loved it if they'd kept it that way. Seriously. Spike earning his humanity, becoming a hero, was a great development for a season about humanity. The early season 6 was ok, too, but suddenly he just snapped - for no apparent reason.

Spike didn't want anything to do with Wood's vendetta. ("I don't give a piss about your mom. She was a Slayer, I was a vampire.") He was focused and prepared to fight by Buffy's side in what she considered their hardest battle yet, which Wood wasn't until she kicked some sense into him.


If he didn't care about her, why would he jerk Wood around with "My mother loved me" nonsense, and why would he wear her coat around like some sort of badge?

[Enisy]

"It was so clear... on this spot."
"Dawnie, I have to."
"I love you. I will always... love you... Tell Giles I figured it out, and I'm okay."

I reiterate: "beyond 'death being her gift'"?

I don't really want to keep debating the other stuff outside PM, because we're already off-topic. All I'll say is that many Spike fans consider him the victim, and many Buffy fans consider him the abuser, but the real truth is that "it's not black and white -- I'd love it to be, but it's not", to quote Marti Noxon. People miss the point of the season by whitewashing Buffy and blackwashing Spike, or vice versa.

What Buffy-centric 'ships that we didn't get on the show would you have liked to see?

Gage/Buffy, mainly for the eye-candy, but also because he seems like a combination of Buffy's "types". Faith/Buffy, if they had gone for it in Season 3. It would also be interesting to see how far they could go with Parker/Buffy (although that might be hard on Sarah, given James's comments on the guy who played Parker, heh). Aaaand I confess I used to like the idea of Giles/Buffy in the early seasons, before it became clear it was actually a father/daughter relationship.

[vampmogs]

Which of the show's writers (barring Joss Whedon) do you think writes Buffy best?]

Hard to say really. I don't think anyone writes her bad and it's really hard to pick out a favourite out of the bunch that isn't Joss Whedon, who I do believe writes her the best. I'd have to say probably Petire just for the fact that he puts slayers on this epic grand scale and makes a point that they really are these very elite people. He likes to show that and I think it's just as important to show that as it is to show Buffy's more common human side as well.

What Buffy-centric 'ships that we didn't get on the show would you have liked to see?[/b]

Bander is probably the only one I could really get invested to when I think about it. But we might be getting that after all as of yet. I just think that relationship is one I'd really get into since both of them are really great characters for me.

[Nostalgia]

When was she horrible before they kissed? Before Spike somehow misinterpreted "This isn't real"?


Did you miss the part in "Bargaining" when she was going to attempt to kill herself? Did you miss "After Life," probably the second most darkly written episode for Buffy?

Herself being back was the cause to her suicidal thoughts and depression.. I thought that was pretty obvious actually.. Spike was just a scapegoat.

What Buffy-centric 'ships that we didn't get on the show would you have liked to see?

Well, there's still time to see some Bander action.. but it seems to be turning into a tease more than a legitimate thing. Honestly, I wouldn't mind Bander at all.. at least I'm interested in it. Suffice to say I might hate it.. but I wouldn't mind them taking that road.

[redrevo]

Did you miss the part in "Bargaining" when she was going to attempt to kill herself? Did you miss "After Life," probably the second most darkly written episode for Buffy?

Herself being back was the cause to her suicidal thoughts and depression.. I thought that was pretty obvious actually.. Spike was just a scapegoat.


Horrible to Spike, not horrible in general.

[Enisy]

She wasn't horrible to him before they kissed. That was the turning-point, and, to a larger extent, Smashed. Kissing a guy after he has specifically asked you to leave him alone, then denying that you want him, then kissing him again in the next episode, and denying him in the one afterwards, does qualify as "stringing him along". ;)

Spike gets part of the blame, too, of course. Just not all of it.

Well, there's still time to see some Bander action.. but it seems to be turning into a tease more than a legitimate thing. Honestly, I wouldn't mind Bander at all.. at least I'm interested in it. Suffice to say I might hate it.. but I wouldn't mind them taking that road.

Ah yes, Xander/Buffy... I think it's inevitable, what with that kiss in Buffy's dream lying around like Chekhov's gun, and I'm interested to see how it goes. I love me some underdogs.

[vampmogs]

Ah yes, Xander/Buffy... I think it's inevitable, what with that kiss in Buffy's dream lying around like Chekhov's gun, and I'm interested to see how it goes. I love me some underdogs.

I agree. I'm surprised how many people seem to have suddenly ruled the pairing out because of the preview we got of 'Wolves at the Gate' with the Xander and Renee date plans. I mean, how often do we get a kiss in this series that isn't there for a reason? Joss didn't stick that dream in for no reason at all, he's going to pay it off, he has some reason for it. You don't throw something like that in there then just forget about it all together.

Though in saying that I'm in no real hurry to see Buffy romantically paired off. I wouldn't mind Xander but I don't need Xander. I still think Buffy has always been better alone. Though one of the reasons I'm so open to a Buffy/Xander relationship is that they were friends because (if ever) lovers, and I enjoy Buffy with her Scoobies moreso than I ever have than her with Angel, Riley or Spike. Perhaps this relationship will be different because of their history already?

Some more questions;

What do you think is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith under different circumstances?

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?

[Enisy]

I agree. I'm surprised how many people seem to have suddenly ruled the pairing out because of the preview we got of 'Wolves at the Gate'

I think the people who deny the hints do so more because they don't want it, than because they don't expect it.

Though in saying that I'm in no real hurry to see Buffy romantically paired off. I wouldn't mind Xander but I don't need Xander. I still think Buffy has always been better alone.

I agree, in a way. I like Buffy best in Season 5, when Joss said they decided her "love interest" would be her sister. But on the other hand, I think she'd be perfectly likable in a steady relationship with Spike or Angel or Xander; it's just that Joss won't allow her that, for the sake of the story.

Thanks for the questions!

What do you think is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?

Abusing her boyfriend in Season 6 and cutting herself off from her friends/family in Season 6/7 -- but it's excusable, under the circumstances, and she reached a good place in Chosen.

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith under different circumstances?

Not without a different family background. We had the "different circumstances" in Season 6, and even at her lowest, Buffy didn't become Faith. She didn't reject her friends; she chose them over the fake reality in Normal Again. She didn't think herself beyond the law; she was going to turn herself in in Dead Things. She didn't grab and discard a different slampiece every day; she only slept with one guy, whom she already had feelings for, and she took the relationship seriously on some level, since she discussed it in terms of longevity ("Love like that doesn't last").

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?

Most: Season 5.
Least: I've never really disliked Buffy, but, to answer the question... Season 7 (the isolation caused by her Slayer status was an interesting concept, but dragged out too long) or Season 1 (too girly and carefree, barring Prophecy Girl).

[OkinawanSteel]

What do you think is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?

Stabbing Faith in "Graduation Day, Part 1". Not so much the act, but her motivations. Going from "I can't kill Faith" to hunting her down and gutting her is a terribly shocking thing. She makes that moral leap for one reason: Angel. Buffy resolving to go after Faith is a lot more about personal reasons that it is to do anything resembling the greater good or the right thing. It's not something I can deem acceptable and reasonable, whether you think Faith deserved it or not. Stabbing Faith in a fight that she initiated, in self defence? Sure. Even Buffy resolving to go after Faith once hearing about the Professor I could understand. But she doesn't consider anything of the sort at that time. What Buffy did, to me, is premeditated murder for her own personal reasons. How is that any different than Faith killing the Professor?

The only difference is that Faith succeeded where Buffy failed. Attempted murder is no different than murder. The intentions are the same.

It's an issue I've always felt was glossed over. At the very least they should have followed up on Buffy's clear shock and horror after commiting the act. I think she had to have been a little relieved when Faith woke up, I don't think she'd have been able to live with herself had she killed Faith. I hope it's something they follow up on, if the are revisiting Buffy/Faith issues in the comics (which they seem to be)

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith under different circumstances?

Yes. I've always thought that Wishverse Buffy was reminiscent of Faith too.

EDIT: I actually agree with King below.

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?

Most: Throughout seasons 1-5, with 5 possibly being the high point. She was definitely one of my favourite characters in that period.

Least: 6/7. S7 especially. I felt she became very unlikeable towards the end of that season, which was upsetting to me. Her behaviour in 6 is more understandable given what she was going through.

[KingofCretins]

What do you think is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?

I agree; stabbing Faith in "Graduation, Part I". The runner-up for me would be blithely ignoring the continuing threat the First posed through Spike's trigger.

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith under different circumstances?

I think she has become Faith before, and has a little bit again. Whereas Faith has become Buffy in many ways. Those two are so closely intertwined it's hard to always tells where one lets off and the next begins.

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?

I like Buffy most in Season 5, I think. Disliking her would probably be Season 7, followed by parts of Season 4.

[Nina]

What do you think is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?
I'm also going with the Faith stabbing in GD. But that was mostly because it was in a season where Buffy was still the good kid. It was a shock, but I can't say that I couldn't understand her.

But her behavior in LMPTM, Bring on the Night, Empty Places etc. is much worse, but I couldn't say that I was shocked ... that was who Buffy became.

BTW, Can't say that I was happy with Buffy slapping Angel in the face because he disagreed with her in Sanctuary. Not her best moment.

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith under different circumstances?
The Buffy in season 7 was worse as Faith, she wouldn't be like Faith because Faith had to face an abusing mother/father, no parent in her life, no friends etc. Buffy would be different, but I can't say that Buffy is a much better person.

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?
I like her in season 1 and 4, I like happy, angst-free Buffy. But in season 4 she was a little 'better than you', so season 1.
The worst is season 7 of course, it started out fine, but the last part of the season was awful and she never recovered from that. Crazy narcistic woman.

[sherrilina]

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?

Yeah, I think I like Buffy best in seasons 2 and 5 (my fave seasons!), and least in season 7....

Speaking of Normal again...

Does the "asylum" retcon in Normal Again annoy you? Don't you think her personality would have been affected by that in a way it evidently wasn't had it occurred?

[vampmogs]

I actually don't think going after Faith was such a bad thing, for a number of reasons.. but everyone knows my opinion on that enough so I'll save you the boring speech :p


Speaking of Normal again...

Does the "asylum" retcon in Normal Again annoy you? Don't you think her personality would have been affected by that in a way it evidently wasn't had it occurred?

Are you talking about when it is revealed that Buffy spent time in an institution before coming to Sunnydale? Because yes, that's possible the worst retcon in the shows entire history. IMO it was absolutely appalling and unnecessary and doesn't make a lick of sense given how we saw her act in the early seasons. Not to mention the alarm bells that should have been going off in Joyce after some of the things Buffy said before her mother learnt the truth in 'Becoming II.'

Take for example Buffy's "saving the world from vampires" in 'Bad Eggs.' Or, her "there's just something’s about being a vampire slayer" in 'Witch.' Or "I have to stop the vampires" during 'Killed by Death.' All those things should have made Joyce alarmed that her daughters thinking vampires exist again, but they didn't. The idea Buffy's parents just 'forgot' is just poor horrid writing, Joyce isn't a bad mother, certainly not the kind of mother who just forgets that her daughter was institutionalised

The only thing I can even remotely fanwank to make their history make sense is when Buffy tells Joyce the truth in 'Becoming II' and Joyce states "no Buffy you need help" in which Buffy replies angrily "I'm not crazy!" It almost sounds remotely like they've been through that before, but it's a big, big stretch.

And yes, you make a very good point. Buffy would not be the bubbly girl she was back in s1, not IMO anyway. Nor do I think she wouldn't have brought up such a thing during her angry outburst towards Giles in 'Welcome to the Hellmouth' when she lashes out at him, listing all the things being a slayer has done to ruin all her life; including loosing all her friends, being kicked out of school, and not being able to tell anyone because she might endanger them. Hard to figure out why the biggest one of all, "getting locked up in an asylum" didn't make the cut.

I cringe when I hear that part of the episode. :s

[Nostalgia]

I also agree that attempting to kill Faith wasn't a bad thing.. it was to save someone. I'll save my long speech as well. They're under the dirt somewhere in the archives.


[B]What do you think is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?

I think her all time worst thing ever thought or said is that she would do things differently if given the context of the situation of season 7.. that'd she'd let her sister die. I found it appalling.

Her worst actions were what she did to Xander in "When She Was Bad."

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith under different circumstances?

I agree with others in that Buffy has a part of her in her.. just as Faith has a part of her in her. I disagree in that she has acted like her though.

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?

Most: Season 2/3. Worst: 7.

[buffyholic]

What is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?
IMO, the worst thing was giving in to her impulses in season 6. Sure she was depressed but she could have told someone that, instead she let herself become someone she hated later on, she let herself give in to those dark impulses.

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith in different circunstances?
No. Buffy has those dark impulses, that dark side in her but she would never give in to those feelings. She only did it in season 6 because she was depressed. But like Willow says in "Choices", some people just don´t have an evil bone in their body. And that´s right, Buffy is not like Faith.

What season do you enjoy/dislike the most in?
This is really tough. I enjoy her in every season. Really. In every season she is always learning about the slaying, about life.

[Enisy]

The worst is season 7 of course, it started out fine, but the last part of the season was awful and she never recovered from that. Crazy narcistic woman.

If Buffy was a narcissist, she wouldn't have an inferiority complex about her superiority complex. :)

I think her all time worst thing ever thought or said is that she would do things differently if given the context of the situation of season 7.. that'd she'd let her sister die. I found it appalling.

You know, I got the impression that the writers wanted to bring her back to her Season 2 state, when she was willing to kill Angel to save the world. But the execution was a bit crude, yeah.


Question:

What do you think we are more likely to see in Season 8: single!Buffy, Xander/Buffy or Satsu/Buffy?

What's your favourite speech by Buffy?

Favourite Buffy-centric kiss?

[Nina]

If Buffy was a narcissist, she wouldn't have an inferiority complex about her superiority complex. :)


Wrong grammer again from my side, sorry.

Buffy is not a real narcissist because she isn't narcissistic before or after season 7. But in season 7 she is written as a narcist. And I don't know much about it, but as far as I know, the most narcissists have an inferiority complex.

edit:

What do you think we are more likely to see in Season 8: single!Buffy, Xander/Buffy or Satsu/Buffy?
I would love to see a single Buffy. My love for the friendship between Xander and Buffy will never allow me to love them as a couple and Satsu/Buffy isn't a real option because Buffy isn't into girls. And I don't really like Satsu.

What's your favourite speech by Buffy?
I don't really like her speeches. But I have a lot of love for this line from 'Faith, Hope and Trick': "I told him that I loved him... and I kissed him... and I killed him." It's not a speech, but it is heartbreaking.

Favourite Buffy-centric kiss?
Buffy and Angel in 'I will remember you' just before the end.

[vampmogs]

What do you think we are more likely to see in Season 8: single!Buffy, Xander/Buffy or Satsu/Buffy?

Mmm I'm not sure. How often do we get through a season with a single Buffy? Doesn't seem likely, and really the season is just starting. But I'm still going to say Buffy/Xander if we had to pick, even with Xander and Renee getting all cosy.

What's your favourite speech by Buffy?

I would have to say 'Chosen' is my favourite speech. Followed by her speech in The Prom. I second Xander's "yay" :p

Favourite Buffy-centric kiss?

I'd actually have to say when she kissed Dawn on the cheek goodbye before sacrificing herself in 'The Gift.' Those if it were in her relationships, probably her kiss to Angel before she killed him in 'Becoming Part II'.

[Enisy]

What do you think we are more likely to see in Season 8: single!Buffy, Xander/Buffy or Satsu/Buffy?

I would also love single!Buffy, but I think we're more likely to get Xander/Buffy, out of these options (which is much preferrable to Satsu/Buffy).

What's your favourite speech by Buffy?

Her speech to Dawn in The Gift or her speech about the Hellmouth "choking on her" in Bring on the Night.

Favourite Buffy-centric kiss?

My favourite is actually the ad-libbed Spike/Buffy kiss in the Smashed dailies. They used the shot right before the kiss in the aired episode, and you can tell James Marsters is totally channeling Spike there. Other favourites: the Spike/Buffy kiss in Tabula Rasa and the Angel/Buffy kiss in Becoming #2.

[redrevo]

What do you think we are more likely to see in Season 8: single!Buffy, Xander/Buffy or Satsu/Buffy?


I think maybe single!Buffy, and Xander/Buffy will be teased the whole way through. Satsu/Buffy actually happening would be terrible.

What's your favourite speech by Buffy?

Exactly what Enisy said. The Gift is #1.

Favourite Buffy-centric kiss?

I'd have to say the ones that never happened. Buffy/Xander in Phases(?) and Buffy/Riley in As You Were before Sam interrupted.

Oh, and also the Dawn one, which is probably up top on the list right now.

What is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?

The Dawn thing in LMPTM, threatening Wood in LMPTM, not staking Angelus, not staking Spike, not telling anyone that Angel was back...

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith in different circunstances?

Absolutely. In The Wish, Buffy turned into a Kendra-esque fighter with touches of Faith. She is very much a product of her circumstances. Maybe she would be a bit less antisocial, but not too many differences.

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?

Enjoy: 5 by a mile
Dislike: Most of 7, some of 6, 1, and 2

[buffyholic]

I´m not gonna answer the first question because I still don´t have season 8.

What´s your favourite speech by Buffy?
I love her speech in Chosen, Bring on the Night and The Gift. Very strong, very emotional.

Buffy centric-Kiss?
I love when she kisses Angel in "Angel" and the cross burnes him. I just love the kiss she gives him when Buffy realises what she has to do, that she has to kill him. And the kiss she gives Dawn when she´s about to sacrifice herself in "The Gift". That kiss is a kiss of love and understanding.

[allthings]

What do you think we are more likely to see in Season 8: single!Buffy, Xander/Buffy or Satsu/Buffy?


Id definately like to single Buffy, she's still cookie dough in my eyes. Xander is one of Buffy's best friends and its been that way from the start and Id hate to see that change after so long. I really couldnt imagine a chandler/monica thing happening. The option wasnt there and he's from a different show but I want Buffy with Dean from Supernatural :P

What's your favourite speech by Buffy?

I love Buffy's speech from 'Chosen' the most, but I also ADORE Buffy's speech to Joyce in 'Becoming part 2'. That speech his kinda cheesy but I love the gay metaphor in it :D

BUFFY: No, it doesn't stop! It never stops! Do-do you think I chose to be like this? Do you have any idea how lonely it is, how dangerous? I would love to be upstairs watching TV or gossiping about boys or... God, even studying! But I have to save the world... again.

Favourite Buffy-centric kiss?

I love the kiss on the pier/promenade in 'I will remember you' <3, and I also love the Spuffy kiss in 'Smashed', its just full of such passion.

What is the worst thing Buffy has ever done?

Touch choice but I have to go with robbing the bank in s8, that idea is just awful! And actually leaving her house in 'Empty Places'. Its her house and even though she didnt agree she had every right to be there.... although it did do her good to leave lol. Also her sordid sex with Spike but the circumstances couldnt be helped (at first).

Do you think Buffy could have become Faith in different circunstances?

I think if Buffy gave in to her dark side and had Faith's upbringing (or lack of) she would be Faith 2.

What season do you enjoy/dislike her character the most in?

Ive enjoyed all of Buffy even commandor bossy Buffy in S7, but my favorite is season 5 Buffy
__________________

[OkinawanSteel]

What do you think we are more likely to see in Season 8: single!Buffy, Xander/Buffy or Satsu/Buffy?

I think at this point, Buffy/Satsu is most likely out of those. Kind of surprising, but I'm open to it. B/X also, but I have reservations about that, stemming from the brotherly/sisterly-ness. The time I loved Buffy the most was when she was single though.

What's your favourite speech by Buffy?

I detest her speeches mostly. Speeches have never been a strong suit of the Buffyverse. Can I go with her last words to Dawn? It's not so much the speech, but the emotion behind it.

Favourite Buffy-centric kiss?

Kissing Dawn on the cheek before the swandive, I think. (Apparently, I'm on a "The Gift" kick.) :)

[KingofCretins]

What do you think we are more likely to see in Season 8: single!Buffy, Xander/Buffy or Satsu/Buffy?

Pick 'em right now. There's really no way to be sure. I'm amazed that Joss was able to have Buffy shoot Satsu down in a way that exponentially increased both the likelihood and the audience's willingness to engage Buffy/Satsu.

What's your favourite speech by Buffy?

"Bring on the Night" was a fine speech. I just wish it had been a bona fide mission statement for the rest of the season.

Favourite Buffy-centric kiss?

I really think her first kiss with Riley in "Hush" was the best. It's one of my favorite televised kisses, with the best being LoVe from "Weapons of Class Destruction".

I still don't see why we couldn't have a Buffy/Xander kiss on TV. Like he seriously wouldn't have kissed her in his dream. Or maybe she kisses him in "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" before he knows the spell is going on, or in the raincoat scene and he has a moment of responding before he stops her.

[buffyholic]

Some more questions about our Buffy.

Do you agree with all her decisions, plans throughout the season?

What do you think of Buffy in season six?

[vampmogs]

Thanks for the questions buffyholic :hug:

Do you agree with all her decisions, plans throughout the season?

What season is that? Or do you mean every season in general? Mostly I agree with most of her decisions and plans. I'm not even entirely against her plan during 'Dirty Girls' just her attitude towards those who dared to speak against it. Buffy was stuck between a rock and a hard place, there was no win- win situation there.

If she hadn't gotten down into that cellar and Caleb did in fact have a girl hostage there, Buffy would be responsible for her death out of negligence to even attempt and save her. And when he didn't have a girl in there and she went anyway she payed the price. It's a horrible situation to be in.

And I think Buffy was right to make an offensive move. They were never going to win a war by shacking it up in the house, to afraid to plan any kind of assault against the First. I mean, Buffy wasn't stupid in this plan, it's reasonable for her to expect a good outcome given her arsenal. She brought herself, Spike and Faith with her for a start, three of the best fighters in the verse. Along with Xander who also had a fair amount of experience on the field, and the girls whom had been there the longest. There weren't many opponents out there that would have faced such a strong force and won, I understand why Buffy thought she had a decent chance of having a good outcome from this.

What do you think of Buffy in season six?

I like her. I missed the vibrant Buffy of years before, and that Buffy will always be my favourite, especially the Buffy of s3 and s5 (and I'm loving s8 Buffy at the moment) but I understand where Buffy was coming from. She was dealing with depression and that can severely alter how one acts, it makes sense she at times behaved so out of character. And whilst I know it was wrong what Buffy did to Spike, I don't have a great deal of sympathy for him this season because I don't believe he deserved it yet, so I'm not on board with those who dislike her for that.

Though in saying that, in season six there was the one that scene that made me terribly disappointed in Buffy, and that was in 'Dead Things' when she casually laughs off Spike making a joke about killing a decorator. For her to be so cavalier about the fact he'd ended a life is just horrible, bad Buffy, I get the point of her doing that, but I wasn't impressed. IMO, the worst thing she ever did in the series, easily beating her treatment of Spike, the bank robbery or going after Faith.

[Nina]

Do you agree with all her decisions, plans throughout the season?
No, but I could see why she did something .. the most of the time. I lost her in the 'I'm better than everybody' period in season 7. I didn't saw where she came from, and I couldn't feel for her. But in the earlier seasons, I didn't always agree ... but understood her.

What do you think of Buffy in season six?
I felt very bad for her. But I also missed the old Buffy, I know that she was depressed and that she couldn't be funny or happy ... but I missed that Buffy. But I felt for her. But I agree with Vampmogs about that one scene ...

[KingofCretins]

I don't agree with several of her decisions. Running away, concealing Angel, concealing Spike -- all bad calls. By the time she was lying about Spike being back, neither Xander nor Dawn really had the energy to act surprised about it.

Tactically, Buffy is pretty much full of good calls. The initial charge into the vineyard and her proposed second one were both terrible plans, though.

[alexa]

I agree with her decision to run away. Oh wait.. no I don't actually, but I understand why she did and it pisses me off how the scoobies treat her when she gets back. It's like talk to me Xander/Willow when you've had to send your boyfriend to hell to save the world right after he's stopped being an evil psycho. Anyway :p

I'm not convinced that her plans to storm the vineyard were bad. She made the right choice because that was were the power was and her scythe... and like she says later if you lead people into battle they're going to die. Faith's choice wasn't any less dangerous.

I didn't relate to Buffy in season six though.. could be because she was depressed for the whole season. I didn't dislike her much, but it's like she wasn't really around.

[KingofCretins]

Attacking the vineyard in force again was going to go about as well the second time as it did the first time. I picture Caleb telling whatever survivors as they fled "y'know, I can do this all day". Buffy only won through to the scythe because she came alone and *didn't* try to fight him. Buffy was right that that was the place but completely wrong about what to do about it.

[vampmogs]

Attacking the vineyard in force again was going to go about as well the second time as it did the first time. I picture Caleb telling whatever survivors as they fled "y'know, I can do this all day". Buffy only won through to the scythe because she came alone and *didn't* try to fight him. Buffy was right that that was the place but completely wrong about what to do about it.

I disagree. Buffy single handily got into the vineyard in the first place, we saw her knock down at least one Bringer, and it isn't radical to suggest she didn't have to fight her way through many more prior to that. Then she manages to evade Caleb the whole time. This could have easily worked just as well if Buffy had brought in a team with her. Faith, Spike, the strongest potentials they had and maybe even Willow against the Bringers, whilst Buffy kept it up with Caleb. We saw in 'Dirty Girls' that when she was mad enough she could give him as good as he got, and even in 'End of Days' after he got a power up (after 'Touched') Buffy managed to beat him. The key ingredient here is Willow, if Buffy brought her in there's no doubt she would have gotten that scythe.

Caleb was at a weak point in 'Touched' Buffy had the advantage. The First states as much in 'End of Days' when it states Caleb is weak as it has been "quite sometime since we merged." Which obviously he believed had something to do with her ability to evade him down in the cellar as after merging, during the fight with Buffy in 'End of Days' he states, "there's no slipping out of this fight girl" as she attempts to do what she did the episode prior to this.

And really, what could she have possibly done differently than she proposed in 'Empty Places.' Just ask Caleb and the Bringers to step aside whilst they take a little tour of the vineyard and check for whatever powerful thing it is their hiding? There's nothing else Buffy could have done.

[KingofCretins]

You're treating the enemy as this static object -- obviously they knew Buffy was coming the first time, and in force, so there's no reason not to think they'd have known, and responded, had they been coming in force again. It's that "tromp of their boots" thing. Going in alone, there was no tromping, maybe even no guard posted. The First isn't omnipresent, but it's not stupid, it would have probably personally seen a major offensive being planned. Buffy going off on her own, maybe not, not with it laying the trap for Faith.

What Buffy should have done different in "Empty Places"? Exactly what her most knowledgeable advisors were counseling. Slow down. Think.

[vampmogs]

You're treating the enemy as this static object -- obviously they knew Buffy was coming the first time, and in force, so there's no reason not to think they'd have known, and responded, had they been coming in force again.

Caleb knew the first time because he set the bait, the trap. The reason Buffy went down there, he invited her into the vineyard. This time he didn't.

It's that "tromp of their boots" thing. Going in alone, there was no tromping, maybe even no guard posted. The First isn't omnipresent, but it's not stupid, it would have probably personally seen a major offensive being planned. Buffy going off on her own, maybe not, not with it laying the trap for Faith.

The First was really inconsistent when it came to this. If it can be everywhere at once, it technically should have known about Buffy's plans in 'Chosen' and to do something about them. If the First didn't make a move against Buffy making a major offensive in 'Chosen' then I don't find it hardly to believe it would be surprised by another attack on the vineyard like Buffy planned in 'Empty Places.'

What Buffy should have done different in "Empty Places"? Exactly what her most knowledgeable advisors were counseling. Slow down. Think.

And do what? Whatever way they went with this, they had to go in and get to the source of that power and they weren't going to be able to do that without having a confrontation.

[Moscow Watcher]

What Buffy should have done different in "Empty Places"? Exactly what her most knowledgeable advisors were counseling. Slow down. Think.

I don'r think that it would be a good idea. Time could be crucial. The Bringers were amassing the weapons, The First was ready to strike at any moment.

[buffyholic]

Now, some more questions.

Do you agree with the choice she made by empowering all potentials slayers around the world?

Do you think Buffy will ever have a normal relationship ever?

About the plan to go to the vineyard, I agree it wasn´t her greatest plan, but no else was suggesting a solution. So she did what she had to, she had to come up with a plan, even an ill-developped one, but a plan, since no one else came up with ideas.

[vampmogs]

Thanks for the questions! :)

Do you agree with the choice she made by empowering all potentials slayers around the world?

Essentially, yes I do. Leaving aside all the moral implications and repercussions that season 8 is actually dealing with. I think it was something that had to be done, it was a necessity to win the war so in many respects I find the whole debate to be kinda moot anyway. For us to be discussing the implications of it we had to have life after 'Chosen' and we wouldn't have that if Buffy hadn't decided to empower all the potentials because the First's army would take over the world. Essentially, I'd rather deal with the moral implications of her decisions in season 8, than have no season 8 at all because the world ended.

Generally though, I think both sides made some good points.

Season 8 spoilers;

Generally Simone and her gang and Gigi are two big examples of slayer's who have been corrupted. Buffy's "yay me" indicates she's having second thoughts about her decision as she watched Simone steal the guns on the monitor, and she couldn't argue with Twilight when he asked her if the slayers had made a difference in the world.

And yet, at the same time Xander makes a really good point as well in 'A Beautiful Sunset.' As he and Buffy overlook all the new slayers training he talks about the buzz in the castle walls, how he can hardly sleep the place is so energised. He discusses how all these girls feel like they've been given purpose and confidence, so it's benefited a lot of girls in a positive way as well.
Do you think Buffy will ever have a normal relationship ever?

I think in season 8 it is very likely still, even with the Xander/Renee possibilities, that Buffy/Xander is still on the cards. And that could be a very positive normal relationship. I've always rejected the idea that Buffy needs a little monster in her man. The only person to really state as such was Spike, and there's no surprises why he states as such, he was essentially a monster at the time. But even he reveals he doesn't believe he has a chance with her which he states later that episode, so even he undercuts the statement so many fans have adopted as fact, though it's entirely within their rights too. Buffy states she couldn't love Spike when he didn't have a soul, was more happy and attracted to Angel when he was human in 'I Will Remember You' than ever before, chased after Riley because she believed she could love him and personally perused Owen and Parker, which in both cases the relationships ended for reasons other than they didn't have any monster in them. So essentially I don't think there's anything stopping her from having a normal relationship.

[Nina]

Do you agree with the choice she made by empowering all potentials slayers around the world?
Nope, I love the new situation as a watcher/reader ... but it is a stupid move of Buffy IMO. I can't see it as a good thing after calling it 'rape' earlier in the season and after 7 years of 'being a slayer is awful' and 'you can't run away from it'. There are 2000 slayers and only 30% of them have some kind of leader, teacher etc. And if they have a watcher, it's one (untrained) watcher for a pretty big group, compare that to one (trained) watcher for one slayer. We saw already that not all the potentials are made to be a slayer (Dana), that the scoobies use them to get what they want (again 'Damage') and
to rob banks.
I think the last two points make it clear that the scoobies are no saints either, this army of übermenschen do what this little group of people wants them to do (that is in the best senario, in the worst ..they listen to nobody or to evil people).
It's dangerous and nobody has this situation under control.

And of course, nobody really thought about it before the spell .. they just did it. And it didn't save the world either ... if Buffy didn't gave those poor girls those 'only supernatural people matter' speeches, they could probably have the nescesary faith in themselves to activate the amulet without being 'upgraded'. But that is for one of my other favourite rant topics.

And the sharing? If I was a potential I won't like this 'sharing'. You will always have a guilty feeling if you don't fight the good fight and if you fight the fight .. you're not more than a number in an army and die pretty soon. After 7 years it's clear to me that this isn't a gift, it's a burden and maybe it's not fair that only one girl should carry that burden, but if you think that way ... Buffy's sharing the power is a really selfish thing to do and I don't believe that Buffy's intention was making it easier for herself ... so it's just really stupid.

[/rant]

Do you think Buffy will ever have a normal relationship ever?
Maybe in the very end, because Joss doesn't believe in happy, normal relations.
And wasn't her relation with Riley almost normal ...

[holypotatoes]

You guys I'm joining my first non impartial club!!!!!! I still am the president of the impartial club though, just so we're clear. :p

Do you agree with the choice she made by empowering all potentials slayers around the world?
To be honest, no. It kind of took away how special it was to be a slayer. I loved the fact that being a slayer is rare and that no one knew they existed besides demons and even then they still thought she was a myth. I think the show worked as well as it did because she was the only one. At first anyway. I do like how it all