The remote impossible possibility - Bander

[bishopcruz]

Well, I have been a Bander shipper since I first started watching Buffy all those many years ago. I know we have a decentish number of B/Xers on this board, so I figured, why not start a thread discussing it. So let's get started.

1. Do you believe that Joss had at any point planned to get B/X together?

2. Why do you think the ship never happened?

3. Did Xander ever stop having feelings for Buffy?

4. Did Buffy have feelings for Xander?

5. What are your favorite B/X scenes?

6. What of Season 8?

For me, I felt that B/X was always the show had been inteded to go in, but I dunno if it was fan output or network meddling, but it never did. I know SMG had always felt that B/X were supposed to end up together, and I know that according to her and NB there had been an initial plan to get them hooked up in S7 (Where IMO it really would have worked.).

I'm also of the opinion that Xander was always in love with Buffy, even when he was with Cordy and Anya, they both noticed it, and brought it up throughout the series. I also find it interesting that in Xander's nightmare future the first fight we see is centered around Buffy, who had apparently died.

Buffy's feelings are a little harder to get a feel on, though I would say that the formula of the show was that Buffy really didn't show much interest in the guys until they actually got together usually 1 or so episodes prior. Though I will say, that there have always been signs of Buffy kinda marking her territory when it comes to Xander.

B/X was also interesting in what the writers didn't show. In the PG script they went to great lengths to show that the CPR was very chaste, the original script of the Pack had Xander roughly kissing Buffy, but that scene was cut. It always seemed to me that the idea was that the first actual kiss between B/X would be a pretty big moment.

One of my favorite quotes moments:
XANDER: The problem is not you. Don't do this to yourself, please.
BUFFY: It's just ... I just wanna know that there's gonna be another good one. One that I won't chase away.
XANDER: There will be. Promise. He's out there, he could come along any minute.
BUFFY: Yeah, and the minute after that I can terrify him with my alarming strength and remarkable self-involvement.
XANDER: What? I don't think you're like that.
BUFFY: Maybe I could change. You know, I could, I could work harder. I could spend less time slaying, I could laugh at his jokes, I mean, men like that, right, the, the joke-laughing-at?
XANDER: Or maybe you could just be Buffy, he'll see your amazing heart, and he'll fall in love with you.

For season 8, I'll heep this spoiler tagged:
I am really feeling the Buffy/Xander chemestry in this opening set of issues, and it seems that they have worked to make Xander a more fan-palateable mate for Buffy. I am also still convinced that Xander is the kisser.

[Jenni Lou]

3. Did Xander ever stop having feelings for Buffy?

Nope. I don't think he ever stopped having feelings for her; he just suppressed them because he felt they could never be reciprocated. :) IMO. That's the way it always seemed to me.

I know SMG had always felt that B/X were supposed to end up together, and I know that according to her and NB there had been an initial plan to get them hooked up in S7.

Really? I had never heard that. Interesting. Do you have a source for that? Not that I don't believe you or anything. ;)


I am also still convinced that Xander is the kisser.

Me too! :)

[ykickamoocow]

Really? I had never heard that. Interesting. Do you have a source for that? Not that I don't believe you or anything. ;)


Its common knowledge. Both Sarah Michelle Gellar and Nicholas Brendon wanted a Buffy/Xander relationship. I heard that Joss went to Sarah late season 5 and asked her who she would like Buffy to end up with and she said Xander.

[ykickamoocow]

1. Do you believe that Joss had at any point planned to get B/X together?


Yes. I believe he originally intended for Bander after Angel left but for some reason he changed his mind.


2. Why do you think the ship never happened?


I think some of the writers were very pro Spuffy and Bander just got pushed aside.


3. Did Xander ever stop having feelings for Buffy?


No. Even in season 7 he was still showing physical attraction to Buffy. In the episode "Him" when buffy says she doesnt want a new cheerleading outfit Xander says something like "Lets not make any rash decisions" which clearly showed he wanted to see buffy in the cheerleading outfit again.


4. Did Buffy have feelings for Xander?


I think she could have.


5. What are your favorite B/X scenes?


There are quite afew but my favourites would have to be the two scenes in the season 5 episode "I was made to love you" where Xander tells Buffy what a great person she is. I even recall the commentary person mentioning Bander breifly during that episode.


6. What of Season 8?


I hope they get together. Unlike Spuffy or Bangle, Bander is a healthy relationship and potentially a long one aswell.

[Jenni Lou]

Its common knowledge. Both Sarah Michelle Gellar and Nicholas Brendon wanted a Buffy/Xander relationship. I heard that Joss went to Sarah late season 5 and asked her who she would like Buffy to end up with and she said Xander.

Okay. Well it's common knowledge I was not aware of. I never read an interview about that or anything. Sorry I didn't know. :rolleyes:

[KingofCretins]

1. Do you believe that Joss had at any point planned to get B/X together?

I think Joss has probably toyed with it. It is true that it's what Sarah and Nick wanted for their characters. I heard that they wanted it back in Season 4, as well. Allegedly, Season 7 was being written toward it before a change of direction.

2. Why do you think the ship never happened?

A number of reasons, probably. I think it didn't happen on TV because, as the show went along and Joss had less and less of an on-set, every day role in production, the people in charge were people that actually didn't like the character of Xander very well. I also have some politically incorrect thoughts on why he has had many detractors as a character, and that fan response might have dictated some of this.

3. Did Xander ever stop having feelings for Buffy?

Absolutely not. He's been in love with her since the day they met.

4. Did Buffy have feelings for Xander?

I think that after "Prophecy Girl", Buffy started thinking of Xander much as Xander felt about Willow -- that he was her "in case of emergency" boyfriend. But there are plenty of instances in which it's teased that she has contemplated him along those lines before. The hug in "Phases". Her look in "I Was Made to Love You" when Anya declared that she knows Xander only loves her.

5. What are your favorite B/X scenes?

The "Phases" hug -- see avatar. Xander telling Buffy that the only other person he has feelings for is 'unavailable' in "Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered". Xander arguing (vicariously, I think) for Buffy and Riley in "Into the Woods". Xander being the one to realize what Buffy went through in "Bargaining". Their beautiful moment in "Seeing Red". Xander and Buffy walking down the hall holding hands in "Chosen".

[quote]6. What of Season 8?

The groundwork is there already. They are clearly working very closely and share a closeness we haven't seen for a long time. I love Buffy's look over her shoulder to him before going on the rescue mission in Issue #4. Also, she is dreaming of smoochies, so, it could happen. I think that those two make a great match.

[ThePoet's<3]

Well - ask KoC and he knows what my first reaction was... But I don't know... Bander is kinda growing on me. I'm starting to think that maybe it's Xander's turn.

I don't know all the "behind-the-scenes" rumors and such - I don't know about what Joss originally planned with the characters, and no - Jenni Lou - I didn't know Bander was supposed to take place in S7 either. But it makes sense.

I always felt terrible for Xander when Buffy told him she didn't feel "that way" about him in the first Season. I think people identify with Xander in being interested in someone who doesn't reciprocate your feelings.

So, to have all these years go by, all these life experiences, and to have matured in the ways they have it would be a nice story to have Buffy suddenly look at Xander in a different way. He's been a loyal friend if nothing else.

I think S8 has the "vibes" for a Bander relationship. I guess it's so early in the Season it's hard to "see" it unfold. Maybe I'm trying to hard to see the relationship into the future and it hasn't even got off the goround yet!! (if indeed it does!) I wonder if the relationship is sucessful how that will affect the rest of the Buffy stories or if it goes sour, how that will affect the Scoobs and Slayer Inc.?

With a twist on the immortal words of Gregg Nations from LOST - we will need to "Read (Watch), Wait, and See".

[Jenni Lou]

I think S8 has the "vibes" for a Bander relationship. I guess it's so early in the Season it's hard to "see" it unfold. Maybe I'm trying to hard to see the relationship into the future and it hasn't even got off the goround yet!! (if indeed it does!) I wonder if the relationship is sucessful how that will affect the rest of the Buffy stories or if it goes sour, how that will affect the Scoobs and Slayer Inc.?

I agree! And I also spoiler-fonted that for you since this isn't the s8 forum. :)



With a twist on the immortal words of Gregg Nations from LOST - we will need to "Read (Watch), Wait, and See".

Woo-hoo! A Lost fan who quotes Gregg Nations! :kiss:

[bishopcruz]

Cool to see so many people interested. The poll is definitely at this early point going much better than I thought it would.

Quick question for people, do you think that interest in the B/X ship might have anything to do with when you saw the series. I have noticed that many Spuffy fans came to the show in later seasons, for example. B/X I think was at its strongest in S2 where there was definitely a whole dual triangle of Buffy/Xander/Angel and Xander/Buffy/Cordy.

In later seasons as Xander got shunted to the side, and the ships on the show became more or less permanent, Spuffy from S5 on, Xanya from S4 on, Tillow from S4 on. It seemed that overall the show didn't have the romantic, I dunno, elasticity that the early seasons did.

think that after "Prophecy Girl", Buffy started thinking of Xander much as Xander felt about Willow -- that he was her "in case of emergency" boyfriend. But there are plenty of instances in which it's teased that she has contemplated him along those lines before. The hug in "Phases". Her look in "I Was Made to Love You" when Anya declared that she knows Xander only loves her.

I saw you make that argument on other boards, and in many ways I think it is a true one, so I was hoping you'd make it again here. So thanks. I think that is a very interesting view, and it puts a lot of the Buffy looks over the years into an interesting context.

I guess, playing a bit of a devils advocate here, that might hint though that a Bander ship might be one Buffy might one of convenince on her end. What are everyone's thoughts on that?

A number of reasons, probably. I think it didn't happen on TV because, as the show went along and Joss had less and less of an on-set, every day role in production, the people in charge were people that actually didn't like the character of Xander very well. I also have some politically incorrect thoughts on why he has had many detractors as a character, and that fan response might have dictated some of this.

It's wierd, I know that I get a very anti-Xander feel from Marti and Jane Espinson, but they have also written some of the best Bander episodes. BBB on Marti's side, and I was Made to Love You on Jane's.

I'd love to hear that politically incorrect thought of yours.

The fan response thing has always baffled me. For a VERY long time the Bander ship was reviled to an amazing degree. I mean, some people hated Spuffy, some hated Cangel, some hated Bangel, but for a while, especially on the Bronze boards back in the day it seemed that EVERYONE, save a few devoted followers, hated Xander, and by association, Bander.

Out of order on this one but...

I think Joss has probably toyed with it. It is true that it's what Sarah and Nick wanted for their characters. I heard that they wanted it back in Season 4, as well. Allegedly, Season 7 was being written toward it before a change of direction.

I had always felt that Xander was probably originally planned for getting with Buffy sometime in S2 or S3, especially considering that Angel was never planned as a regular from the get go. I think fan response, and the great chemestry between SMG and DB pushed Angel to heights I don't think that even Joss understood. S2 was so friggen amazing that they took Bangel and ran with it, to great effect if I do say so. I think it was around then that things got kinda murky.

Okay. Well it's common knowledge I was not aware of. I never read an interview about that or anything. Sorry I didn't know.

Don't feel bad, I hadn't known about some of the stuff until very recently. It just seemed odd to me that Joss would lay such obvious framework for Bander early in S7 and just dump it. I was very much into what were you thinking mode. Then again, I should be thankful Xander survived that season considering how VERY close to dying he came.

There are quite afew but my favourites would have to be the two scenes in the season 5 episode "I was made to love you" where Xander tells Buffy what a great person she is. I even recall the commentary person mentioning Bander breifly during that episode.

I'll have to check the commentary. But yeah, love that scene, hence the quote.

I found it interesting that every season has a few choice Bander moments, just enough to keep hope alive.


So, to have all these years go by, all these life experiences, and to have matured in the ways they have it would be a nice story to have Buffy suddenly look at Xander in a different way. He's been a loyal friend if nothing else.

I think it would also be nice to see Buffy in a relationship that doesn't have the huge levels of angst that all of her previous ones have had. Bander gives her the possibility of as normal a life as possible in her situation.

[KingofCretins]

I guess, playing a bit of a devils advocate here, that might hint though that a Bander ship might be one Buffy might one of convenince on her end. What are everyone's thoughts on that?

I think if there was a possible relationship of convenience, she wouldn't be dreaming about kissing him, she would kiss him.

Neither of them would be saying it's been a 'slow year'.

It's wierd, I know that I get a very anti-Xander feel from Marti and Jane Espinson, but they have also written some of the best Bander episodes. BBB on Marti's side, and I was Made to Love You on Jane's.

They both had moments of giving him a fair shot in the Buffy context... but they both wrote at least one completely ridiculous just-for-humor out of character moment in which he is grossly irresponsible to the point of the show almost being unwatchable for it. "Beauty and the Beasts" for Marti, "Earshot" for Jane -- Xander blowing off the search for the killer because he sees Jello.

Jane does refer to Buffy/Xander hope in that episode, though. Also mentions that Joss wrote the "Today's when you decide to hug me" line.

I think it would also be nice to see Buffy in a relationship that doesn't have the huge levels of angst that all of her previous ones have had. Bander gives her the possibility of as normal a life as possible in her situation.

Definitely. He's the only man who has learned how to turn to Buffy for the things that Buffy is best at without feeling like less of a man for it.

[SarahRegi]

i personally never liked the idea... more interestingly i never even imagined it happening when i watched show. so i really don't care for it now.

[Jenni Lou]

Quick question for people, do you think that interest in the B/X ship might have anything to do with when you saw the series. I have noticed that many Spuffy fans came to the show in later seasons, for example. B/X I think was at its strongest in S2 where there was definitely a whole dual triangle of Buffy/Xander/Angel and Xander/Buffy/Cordy.

It just seemed odd to me that Joss would lay such obvious framework for Bander early in S7 and just dump it.

1. You might be onto something there. I personally started to watch the show when s6 was airing, although I, more or, less started watching from the beginning. I'm not a hardcore shipper, really, of any one pairing. Some I do like more than others but I am pretty fine with almost anything. That said, I do have preferences. I do like Buffy/Spike, but not in a true love forever kind of way. I just enjoyed the dynamic of their relationship; it was rather entertaining. I'm not a big Buffy/Angel fan because I found the pairing personally boring, with obvious exceptions, of course....Buffy/Xander has always been a fave unconventional 'ship of mine though; I like the sweetness of it. Then again, I also like Xander/Dawn. Before you all go crazy, I only support them in a down the road kind of thing. They're only...what? 5, 6 years apart? That's nothing after you get out of your teenage years. :D

In any case though, I do like B/X and am actually working on a wallpaper featuring the two now. :)

2. I was under the impression that Joss didn't have much to do with season seven. I think the inconsistencies between the first and second parts of the season are due to a writer's shift, most notably when Marti returned after maternity leave....or something like that. Someone else more knowledgable about behind the scenes drama can clarify. :s Also, I think they wrote themselves into a few corners with all the story lines they were juggling as the tried to wrap up the series, that any possibility of B/X had to be scrapped.

[ThePoet's<3]

Quick question for people, do you think that interest in the B/X ship might have anything to do with when you saw the series. I have noticed that many Spuffy fans came to the show in later seasons, for example. B/X I think was at its strongest in S2 where there was definitely a whole dual triangle of Buffy/Xander/Angel and Xander/Buffy/Cordy.

In later seasons as Xander got shunted to the side, and the ships on the show became more or less permanent, Spuffy from S5 on, Xanya from S4 on, Tillow from S4 on. It seemed that overall the show didn't have the romantic, I dunno, elasticity that the early seasons did.

Actually, it was the Ho-hum of S1-3 that didn't quite grab me from the beginning of the show. It was when Spike appeared that I began to be more interested in the show - Season 2 Spike especially. I guess I had grown bored with the "goody-goody" theme and when Spike arrived and began to annoy Buffy and Scoobies it began to be - FUN! (insert evil Spike laugh here!) It's also why I liked Faith more than Buffy.

The Bander concept was less appealing to me because like Buffy - I felt like Xander was her brother. And this was continually re-enforced throughout.

It was actually KoC's fanfic that caused me to look at Bander in a different light (KoC you go post something nice in the Spuffy thread! You owe me!! Double tonight! :D :D ). And I'm kinda crushin on the Comic Xander more than the "TV" Xander! (Xan's been working out since moving to the castle...:D ) I guess you get credit KoC for giving Xan some sex appeal. ;) (But Spike's still sexier.) The confidence of the comic Xander is very appealing also.

But because I like Spike with just about anybody (I'm still not sure about Spander - I would vote Spangel first) I can deal with Bander.

[Jenni Lou]

And I'm kinda crushin on the Comic Xander more than the "TV" Xander!

Me too! I never thought I would go for a guy in an eye patch but Xander is super extra sexy in comic book form! :wub:

[Ehlwyen]

After Angel, Xander is the one ship that I love for Buffy. I hung onto watching the show for so long just wishing for them together. I would be absolutely ecstatic to see B/X happen in S8. I don't dare to wish as I did that for 7 seasons already. I would have loved Season 7 so much if they had let B/X get together. It would have been so natural and helped her to rebuild from a lot of the heartbreak and trust issues she had in relationships. :1pet:

Xander never stopped loving Buffy. Even when he finally stopped attempting to be more than friends, he still loved her more than anything. I can't say that Buffy ever felt anything romantic, but when you're a kid sometimes that epic i wanna die for you romance is all you believe love is. Friendship is an equal foundation for a relationship as horomones (and likely to last longer). They always had a deep open friendship so I believe they could have a solid non complicated relationship if she would ever find him attractive.

Joss had to want to Buffy and Xander together. There are too many points where their relationship could have gone more and then just rudely denied by the writing. But that's how BTVS always was. If you wanted it to happen, it was written in a way to destroy your heart.

But yep, I always loved Buffy and Xander. Heck, I even wished things would have worked out for her and Parker because he looked so much like Xander. :redshy: :lol:

Me too! I never thought I would go for a guy in an eye patch but Xander is super extra sexy in comic book form! :wub:

Yep! Comic eyepatches are way sexier than real life eyepatches! :heart:

[Francy]

Quick question for people, do you think that interest in the B/X ship might have anything to do with when you saw the series. I have noticed that many Spuffy fans came to the show in later seasons, for example. B/X I think was at its strongest in S2 where there was definitely a whole dual triangle of Buffy/Xander/Angel and Xander/Buffy/Cordy.


.

I have seen this theory often, and while it can be the case for many people, it's not for me, for example. I watched the show from Welcome To The Hellmouth, and yet I'm one of the most devoted Spuffies. I don't think when you came into a show influences you in your ships as much as which characters you like.

That said, normally I would be all for the unrequited lover guy to get the girl of his dreams..I always tend to root for the unrequited ones, that's why I fell for Spike and Spuffy (not only Xander loved Buffy without being requited, also Spike did, and rather hopelessly, at the beginning..given the hate Buffy had for him). However, I don't really care for Bander, probably because I don't care for Xander as romantic interest. I love Xander, don't get me wrong..I'm not one of the Xander haters (I don't get the Xander hate), but the guy just doesn't do anything for me in that sense, so it's hard for me to be really interested in his relationships.

I'm not totally opposed to Bander, even though it wouldn't be my choice... like I always said, better him than Angel for Buffy in the end LOL ;), but I'm glad it didn't happen in the show. I believe Xander never got totally over Buffy, but at the same time I believe that Buffy had absolutely no romantic interest in him, so far. And as Spuffy, I am grateful that they went with Spuffy (or sort of) in season 7, because I would have died if they had let things end the way they ended in season 6. In this way, we all got something, and now in the comics it will be Bander, probably. So it's time for the Banders and Xander to be happy! :)

As for what Sarah and Nick wanted, yeah, they wanted Bander, and they are entitled to...but actors don't decide the storylines, they just act. Their opinion should count just as that, personal opinion. Otherwise, Clana would have died seasons ago, in SV, for example! LOL

[Sosa lola]

You know I was against this pairing for so long, but after reading S7 fanfics with this pairing I started to like it more, I enjoy the similartied between Xander and Buffy when it comes to relationship storylines. I even wrote a Xander/Buffy post-Chosen fic. (http://community.livejournal.com/btvs_santa/268350.html)

The most interesting bit is how will Buffy see Xander in different eyes?

[Wolfie Gilmore]

You know who Buffy and Xander remind me of? Lorelai and Luke from the Gilmore Girls. Not necessarily in terms of personality, but in terms of vibe. They’re friends first and foremost, and happy to take the mickey out of one another. They’re comfortadors for one another :)

I’m not sure if Buffy has yet had any real romantic feelings for Xander, but I wouldn’t rule it out. They’re definitely making Xander hotter in season 8, and perhaps that’s to build up to making him a love interest for Buffy? Not sure if he’s the kisser, but wouldn’t rule out some Bander stuff further down the line.

[redrevo]

I'm pretty pro Bander in the long run, especially since it doesn't seem as though Riley is coming back ;). (I voted "Yes, definitely")

If I watch s1-2 again I might be able to get the B/X vibe of these seasons, because at this point I don't really remember it. Maybe it's because I watched these a while ago (a year), or I thought these were badly written seasons (except for Angelus). I think B/X in Season 8 would be a good idea, either that or Buffy single. There haven't been many relationships on Buffy that started out as friendships, which are definitely more stable than the dramatized angst of classic romance.

One thing I like about Xander, though, was that he cared about Buffy enough to make her happy, even if it wasn't with him. He didn't turn aggressive around her after she rejected him, and he didn't let that rejection ruin their friendship. This is one thing that could be the pivotal aspect of their relationship. I would really enjoy it, and it would probably last, if it didn't destroy their friendship and how they worked well together. If it did, I would probably dislike it, and it wouldn't last too long.

I agree with nearly everyone else here that the exchange in IWMTLY was one of the best moments for Buffy/Xander, and Into the Woods was also pretty good for B/X as well as B/R. I have no idea about Joss' or the actors' intentions with regard to relationships, but I think I can say Xander never stopped having some sort of feelings for Buffy, though he did love Anya, and Buffy never had much more than friendship for Xander.

[Cori]

Well I guess I'm pretty much in the minority then because I strongly dislike the idea of Bander (and no not only because I'm a Spuffy shipper). To me the idea of Bander feels like incest since I have always regarded Xander as a big brother to Buffy so for them to get romantically involved is just wrong IMO.

I believe Xander never got totally over Buffy, but at the same time I believe that Buffy had absolutely no romantic interest in him, so far. And as Spuffy, I am grateful that they went with Spuffy (or sort of) in season 7, because I would have died if they had let things end the way they ended in season 6.

Exactly! I couldn't agree more! Xander may still care for Buffy but she has never shown the slightest sign that she is interested in him as a lover and partner. I deeply believe that Buffy was never physically attracted to Xander so the question of romance never even came up for her. I have a straight male friend about whom I feel the same way. We know each other so well and have done for such a long time that I just don't think of him in the way of a man to whom I could be attracted. So sorry Bander fans, but I see absolutely no romantic chemistry between Buffy and Xander. They are great friends and they should stay that way IMO. There is a reason that I'm not reading the season 8 comics! ;) :lol:

[bishopcruz]

Exactly! I couldn't agree more! Xander may still care for Buffy but she has never shown the slightest sign that she is interested in him as a lover and partner. I deeply believe that Buffy was never physically attracted to Xander so the question of romance never even came up for her. I have a straight male friend about whom I feel the same way. We know each other so well and have done for such a long time that I just don't think of him in the way of a man to whom I could be attracted. So sorry Bander fans, but I see absolutely no romantic chemistry between Buffy and Xander. They are great friends and they should stay that way IMO. There is a reason that I'm not reading the season 8 comics!

You're missing out on the comics, they have been pretty good thus far. But anyhow.

Let me put the question to you as far as when you started getting into Buffy, as especially in the early seasons that "brotherly" vibe was not there at all IMO.

As far as chemestry, I'd point out BB&B and Phases as two early examples of how great the chemestry was. Buffy was definitely digging on Xander in Phases. That way that scene was written very much plays at that.

On another note:

Just rewatched the commentary on IWMTLY and yeah, Jane talking at the end kinda pissed me off as in it seems to me that the writers kept tossing in B/X scenes every once in a while to keep our hopes up, then dashing them against the sharp rocks below. Well, there is still S8.

[Lady Manson]

I never was a big fan of Buffy and Xander being together, mainly because I loved when she was with vampires. The human relationships she had (Riley and the other little ones she had in high school) just never had the same appeal to me. However, I think that if the relationship does come to be, the writers will do a good job with it. That's why I'm not against the relationship because I'm hoping the writers will really pull it off well.

Oh, for the record, my favorite moment of their's is in the seventh season in one of the last episodes before Xander takes Dawn out of Sunnydale. It's the scene where the two of them are talking in the kitchen about how he wants to be there to help fight.

:-)

[vampmogs]

I think we had moments that could demonstrate Buffy may have had some romantic feelings for Xander. What about their touching moment in 'Inca Mummy Girl' at the end that seemed kinda shippy to me, as did when he comforts her after Katrina's vamp attack and the look into eachother's eyes for a moment (see KoC's avatar) and when Buffy states that there might be hope for Xander yet after she remembers what he said to her in 'BB&B.'

I could have seen Bander happening much earlier if Angel hadn't been in the picture but Buffy was so emotionally invested in the Bangel relationship that she hadn't gave a great deal of thought to the possibility of Bander. There was definitly shippy scenes though.

[Cori]

You're missing out on the comics, they have been pretty good thus far. But anyhow.

That's what people keep telling me. ;) I'm just not into comics at all.

Let me put the question to you as far as when you started getting into Buffy, as especially in the early seasons that "brotherly" vibe was not there at all IMO.

Well I started watching BTVS with season 4 (which later turned out to be one of my least favourite seasons :lol: ) but then quickly started at the beginning of the show, buying the season 1, 2 and 3 VHS tapes.

As far as chemestry, I'd point out BB&B and Phases as two early examples of how great the chemestry was. Buffy was definitely digging on Xander in Phases. That way that scene was written very much plays at that.

I'm sorry but I just don't see it. There were definitely romantic vibes from Xander but I didn't see them from Buffy. Buffy was so entangled in Bangel at the time, she did not see other men as boyfriend material. Or if she did, like with Scott, then it was only to prove to herself that she didn't care about Angel anymore.

In addition, I have to agree with Lady Manson. I never found Buffy's relationships with human guys to be very interesting. They just did not have the same appeal as her vamp relationships to me. As much as I don't like Bangel, I still think it's more entertaining to watch (even though cringeworthy at times) than Ruffy or any other human relationships Buffy ever had.

[vampmogs]

I thought Buffy's "there may be hope for you yet" to Xander at the end of BB&B was her basically saying that some day it could happen. After all what else would she have been talking about when seconds before Buffy was thanking Xander for not taking advantage of her whilst being under the spell, and stating how much his words meant to her.

[KingofCretins]

There is a site with reviews of Buffy that I love that described the look in "Phases" from Buffy as sort of regret. They said the look said "I should have fallen in love with you". I completely agree with that interpretation. It's not a present desire to start something, but a sense that she would have been better off saying yes in "Prophecy Girl".

[SarahRegi]

i have a question for those who love the Bander idea, and i hope you don't get mad or offended by the way i ask but, why the obsession for this to happen? or why is it so important for you?

i just don't get why so many people want this. i respect everyones likes and opinions but this one particularly get's me wondering.

like i said before, i can care less for the idea and everytime i watch the show i feel no chemistry happening between Buffy and Xander rather than just friendship bonding. it's just the way i see it everytime. as much as i like to, and as much as i see Xander in love with her i can't see that love bond between them, don't know why but i can't.

so therefore my question above..

[KingofCretins]

I don't see Buffy/Xander fans as being more 'obsessive' than people that 'shipped for anything else before it happened. It might seem that way, only because we've waited so much longer.

I think there's a great deal of chemistry between them, and I can run off a list of moments where Buffy showed it, too.

Why do Buffy/Xander 'shippers want their ship? Mostly we want Buffy to be happy, which is probably not going to happen in a relationship as long as she's dating people that keep her tied up in knots and occasionally trade physical and emotional abuse with her. It also won't happen if the woman whose main ambition was to escape from being burdened with a lonely, desolate, friendless, loveless life by being the Slayer continues to try to make relationships work with people she can only see at night, when she's "on the job", and hold no promise of growing old with her or having children with her.

I think it's just as fair to ask why so many people *don't* want it to happen? I didn't notice hardcore anti-Spuffy or anti-Buffy/Angel 'shippers until after these relationships were going on. I think Buffy/Xander has more opponents than either Spike or Angel, despite it not having happened. I think that's a bigger mystery. What about the idea of them as a couple is so off-putting to people?

[EndersWrath]

1. Do you believe that Joss had at any point planned to get B/X together?I think that it definitely crossed his mind a couple times, but I honestly couldn’t say. I would like to think that he was building something in Season 7, but it just stopped.

2. Why do you think the ship never happened?
Spuffy. Plain and simple. I really think that Joss was catering to the majority of the fans in this case and Bander was just pushed into the background. I’m sure than Xanya didn’t help at all either :p

3. Did Xander ever stop having feelings for Buffy?
Hell no! Even if it wasn’t like it was in High School, he still has those feelings for her, and I don’t think they will ever go away until he gets a go at her.

4. Did Buffy have feelings for Xander?That is a tricky one, because she has always been swooned by a vamp or a military boy. I would like to think though that Buffy did want him but with them never being single at the same time it was just shoved to the back of her mind.

5. What are your favorite B/X scenes?I loved the ‘Lessons’ scene where they act as Dawn’s Mommy/Daddy, such a sweet and caring scene between the two. I would like to add in some Season 2 scenes but it has been ages since I have watched it :/

6. What of Season 8?
Joss is going to give it a shot. And honestly if her makes it to where Satsu did it, I will just be one major pissed off fan. Stop wanking us around and do something! Even if I wasn’t on the Bander Brigade I would be saying this because guh! Something needs to happen.


I don't see Buffy/Xander fans as being more 'obsessive' than people that 'shipped for anything else before it happened. It might seem that way, only because we've waited so much longer.

I think there's a great deal of chemistry between them, and I can run off a list of moments where Buffy showed it, too.

Why do Buffy/Xander 'shippers want their ship? Mostly we want Buffy to be happy, which is probably not going to happen in a relationship as long as she's dating people that keep her tied up in knots and occasionally trade physical and emotional abuse with her. It also won't happen if the woman whose main ambition was to escape from being burdened with a lonely, desolate, friendless, loveless life by being the Slayer continues to try to make relationships work with people she can only see at night, when she's "on the job", and hold no promise of growing old with her or having children with her.

I think it's just as fair to ask why so many people *don't* want it to happen? I didn't notice hardcore anti-Spuffy or anti-Buffy/Angel 'shippers until after these relationships were going on. I think Buffy/Xander has more opponents than either Spike or Angel, despite it not having happened. I think that's a bigger mystery. What about the idea of them as a couple is so off-putting to people?

I think it's funny that Bander shippers are called obsessed seeing as they are such a small majority. If anything I think that the Spuffy's and Bander's are more obsessed, and plus they have a bigger fanbase.

I want to see them happen for the same reason. Buffy needs to be happy, she deserves it, and yes Spike and Angel may make her happy but they can't give her what Xander can, and that is a normal life (or as normal as a slayers life can be), they can have kids and grow old and be that fun agoraphobic couple. Plus I too feel that they have this chemistry and deep bond, not just friends, but more than that. Sure I would be happy with them as friends but I do feel that they can be more than that, and that it would make Buffy more happy and comlete her in ways. Plus Xander probably can bake ;) Finish baking that cookie dough Xander!

[bishopcruz]

i have a question for those who love the Bander idea, and i hope you don't get mad or offended by the way i ask but, why the obsession for this to happen? or why is it so important for you?

i just don't get why so many people want this. i respect everyones likes and opinions but this one particularly get's me wondering.

like i said before, i can care less for the idea and everytime i watch the show i feel no chemistry happening between Buffy and Xander rather than just friendship bonding. it's just the way i see it everytime. as much as i like to, and as much as i see Xander in love with her i can't see that love bond between them, don't know why but i can't.

so therefore my question above..

Well, like KoC said, we have been waiting a hell of a long time, and I always felt there was a lead up to it, but it went nowhere. The ship was never closed off, but the hints kept dropping.

I think Bander would work because for once, Buffy could have a happy, normal relationship with someone who is not insecure about their status, can actually go out during the day, and let her lead as normal a life as possible. I found it interesting that when S7 ends, she is faced, with the first time with the ability of not HAVING to die young, being able to live her life, but her two major love interests were both vamps.

I think Bander would also be great in that it would be an angst-free (generally) ship. The problem with Buffy's relationships has always been that they were the focus of the show. Angel first, then Riley, then Spike. With Xander, it wouldn't have been about the whole, miserable=love that Buffy tended to fall into.

As for the Buffy being interested thing, until OMWF, I really never saw Buffy as wanting Spike, at all. But Spuffies can list scene upon scene where they saw that chemestry. Just saying, things change quickly in the Buffyverse.


4. Did Buffy have feelings for Xander?That is a tricky one, because she has always been swooned by a vamp or a military boy. I would like to think though that Buffy did want him but with them never being single at the same time it was just shoved to the back of her mind.

Good point, I always thought it was interesting that until S7, Buffy and Xander had never spent a summer together when they were both single. The one time they do, they come out of it acting like a married couple at the beginning of the season. Food for thought.

[SarahRegi]

I think it's just as fair to ask why so many people *don't* want it to happen? I didn't notice hardcore anti-Spuffy or anti-Buffy/Angel 'shippers until after these relationships were going on. I think Buffy/Xander has more opponents than either Spike or Angel, despite it not having happened. I think that's a bigger mystery. What about the idea of them as a couple is so off-putting to people?

well i never stated that i don't want it to happen so that doesn't include me in that group. i just don't care. all i see them as is as friends. besides, if Buffy would date someone that's completely human why should it have to be Xander? it's not like if he's the only guy in the whole Buffyverse. on the contrary, now that she has so many slayers working for her or with her, she can or should be living a normal life and be able to meet people, get around and finally live her life just like she wanted to at the beginning of the Hellmouth. surely she can meet someone that will click perfectly to her. hey it can happen, maybe a new guy into the Buffyverse.

[Sosa lola]

i have a question for those who love the Bander idea, and i hope you don't get mad or offended by the way i ask but, why the obsession for this to happen? or why is it so important for you?


I think using the word obsession is a little farfetched, the Bander fans seem very quiet and natural about their ship, I've never met an obsessed Bander fan. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I've never met one. I've met annoying Spander (I'm probably one) Spuffy, Bangel fans, those are very popular ships, and the possibility to meet obsessive followers is a sure thing.

I think that people would like Buffy to be with Xander is because that theme was played in S1 and S2 and it would be a full circle if they hooked up, also unlike Riley, Xander isn't threatened by Buffy's powers, he accepted that she's stronger than him, actually I think that's one of the biggest reasons why he's attracted to her.

[Anon]

I am also still convinced that Xander is the kisser. The thing I never get with this theory is why Xander didn't just kiss her. I've heard various explanations put forward, but they always strike me as being at odds with Xander's character, or else they don't make sense given the situation.

As for what I think of Bander, I think it will work fine until the first time they hit a rough patch.

[KingofCretins]

Anon, I think you are right. It's almost a huge cheat if Xander isn't the kisser, because there is no way he wouldn't try it just to *see* if it might work, even if he wasn't sure he was in love with her. Completely implausible, in fact.

[Anon]

Anon, I think you are right. It's almost a huge cheat if Xander isn't the kisser, because there is no way he wouldn't try it just to *see* if it might work, even if he wasn't sure he was in love with her. Completely implausible, in fact.I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that Xander would have just kissed Buffy without needing Willow to tell everyone to close their eyes. He would have kissed her the moment he found out what was required to wake her. The only thing that really makes sense to me is if it was one of the slayers who kissed Buffy. This doesn't eliminiate Bander developing later on though.

[Sosa lola]

If Bander was to happen in S8, I'd really wish it won't be so early, I want a very slow development. I also wish that...

it's true that Buffy and Xander had a one time thing between Chosen and S8, a drunken night, it'll be awesome if they did a flash back issue on that.

[bishopcruz]

If Bander was to happen in S8, I'd really wish it won't be so early, I want a very slow development. I also wish that...

it's true that Buffy and Xander had a one time thing between Chosen and S8, a drunken night, it'll be awesome if they did a flash back issue on that.

Yeah, that would be great. I really got the impression that SOMETHING happened between them at some point. I mean the 'I'll be gentle this time' is very odd wording, even if it was a dream.