Worst Episode

[Saro49]

I'm sure this has been done many times but I was interested in seeing what people consider the poorest episode. I just put in as many episodes with a bad reputation as I could (I really don't see the problem with Wrecked). For me it's definitely Where The Wild Things Are. If there is an episode with less of a point I'd like to see it. I apologize in advance if I miss one or put one down that you like.

[Enisy]

Touched doesn't have as bad a reputation as the others on that list; there are much worse episodes in Season 7 alone. Other than that, those are some pretty accurate selections (although I would have added stuff like Inca Mummy Girl and Reptile Boy and Gone).

Anyway, I voted for Beer Bad. That's the only episode that would make me feel embarrassed for liking the series, if someone were to enter the room while I was watching it. Beer Bad. Episode Worse.

ETA: Similar thread: Episodes You Skip (http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2383)

[Saro49]

I put Touched in there for personal reasons. I think it's completely implausible that absolutely everybody would turn on Buffy in favor of Faith and then the bomb at the end just makes me feel embarassed. It's so stupid especially so close to the finale.

[Enisy]

I think most people would have listed Empty Places instead of Touched, for the everybody-turning-on-Buffy scene you mentioned. (Not that Touched is a favourite of mine, either; I was shocked when Joss praised the "high quality" of the last few Buffy Season 7 episodes. Um.)

[molly13]

I picked Beer Bad because it was a trainwreck. I don't really think of Buffy as the type of person, or at least before she died, that would go to a college bar and drink beers with the morons that she sat with. The concept of them become cave people was just stupid and pointless. I was suprised to Touched on the list because I kind of liked that episode. I agree that it would make more sense to put Empty Places on the list because it was really stupid that Buffy had gotten kicked out of her own house, especially by Dawn of all people. When I first saw the episode, I thought maybe Buffy would throw Faith out of the house for taking them to the bronze, plus she just doesn't like her, but nooo everyone turned on her.

[deathrider]

I picked Beer Bad because it was a trainwreck. I don't really think of Buffy as the type of person, or at least before she died, that would go to a college bar and drink beers with the morons that she sat with.

I'm kinda surprised that Beer Bad has such a bad reputation, I really enjoyed this episode. It was fun and quirky, but managed to hit a few serious issues too.

As regards the guys that Buffy went drinking with, you have to remember the kind of place Buffys life was in at the time. She was completely lost in the whole ruuf+tumble of college life, she had recently broke up with Angel, and even more recently had a one night stand with a guy that she thought that she could make a boyfriend out of. And to top it all off, she then had her nose rubbed in the whole situation by Spike. The guys she met at the bar wanted her to drink with them and she just needed to be wanted in one form or another.

[Nina]

'Teacher's pet' would get my vote ... not one episode is worse than that one. It's a bad episode for Xander as a character, gross and it has a pretty pointless cliff hanger.


About the ones in the list ... I have less problems with cheesy episodes like 'Go Fish', 'Beer Bad' 'Inca Mummy Girl' and 'I Robot, You Jane' than with episodes that destroy characters I love. I despise; 'Touched', 'Dead Man's Party', 'Empty Places', 'Lies My Parents Told Me', 'Wrecked' etc. I went with Touched because that one makes my blood boil.

[missperoxide]

I don't like Beer Bad because it gives me a vibe of a cheesy morality play. Drinking turns you into a caveman is a morale I can do quite well without, thank you very much. Buffy is not a "7th Heaven", for God's sake. I didn't find the cavemen scenes funny at all. But I won't vote for Beer Bad, because it had some good scenes like Buffy dreaming about saving Parker. Or "I'm suffering the afterness of a bad night of badness" :lol:

I would vote for Him if it was in the list. Such a meaningless episode. Just one good thing about that episode - that short Spike, Buffy and bazooka scene.

[Dark Ages]

For me it was between 'Inca Mummy Girl' or 'Double Meet Palace' and I had to pick the 'Double Meat Palace' this episode was the worst I've ever seen. It just was annoying and that ugly old lady with the worm thingy sticking out of her head.I just really think this episode was the most pointless thing ever.

So I voted for the 'Double Meet Palace'

[icegemz]

Okay out of the list, I choose I robot, you Jane. I not really sure why, but out of season 1, its the one episode I found, well boring. But I don't think its the worst Episode. I think that title goes to Ted . Its the one and only episode I have only watched once and can't bare to watch again. I clicked on this thinking ' Yay I can vote for Ted' and no Ted... Oh well I'll survive.:lol: Anyways to get back to the one I choose, I robot, You Jane was probably the worst episode on the list and in Season 1.

[eveee]

I chose beer bad, because I don't see the point in buffy getting drunk anyways. Meh, magic beer. Its stupid.

[Saro49]

I have to say that I really don't mind Double Meat Palace. The episode was a bit silly but it was far from pointless. Getting Buffy a job flipping burgers was just another great development by Whedon bringing his hero further down into real life mediocrity. The only problem was that the parts I liked about the Double Meat plot-line didn't happen in this episode.

[doubleshiny]

I really like Where The Wild Things Are! I'm not keen on Inca Mummy Girl, I think it just took that whole monster of the week thing a bit too far and didn't really have much to say about anything.

[buffyholic]

I Robot, you Jane. This is really the worst of the series, it has competition but at least I can take away something positive about some other weaker (I won´t say bad) episodes. But in I Robot, the only good thing is the ending, the dialogue and Jenny Calendar but those two elements don´t save this because the episode has nothing else good or redeemable. It just doesn´t work and imo, it is the worst of the series.

[Amuk]

From the list provided, I choose Doublemeat Palace. But no list like this that doesn't include Bad Eggs is really valid.

[christina84]

Ok, so I voted for doublemeat palace for obvious reasons, the fact that Buffy would even apply for a job at Doublemeat Palace is a slap in the face. Im sure she could have gotten a much better job even if she were desperate. As for the Demon in it... an old lady? I dont think it can get much lammer than that. I do think that It gave a bit of much needed comic relief.

The one eipsode that I really disliked (and there really is only one) is "Normal Again". Its even to the point where I refuse to watch it! I hated that last scene where the doctor tells Hank and Joyce that shes gone implying that it really is all in her head. WTF?

[trueblue]

im quite surprised that doublemeat palace got voted the worst it aint that bad, for me most episodes of season 7 should be at the bottom so it would have to be touched for me

[DigitalLeonardo]

I'm kinda shocked at the list, there are some REALLY good episodes on it. "Gingerbread", "Where The Wild Things Are?" and "Wrecked" are very good episodes. Personally I think the worst episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer is either "Beneath You" or "Lies My Parents Told Me". Both are just so poorly written and hard to watch (and the fact that season 7 Spike is just such a poorly written character doesnt help.)

On your list though Id go with "Inca Mummy Girl"

[Enisy]

The one eipsode that I really disliked (and there really is only one) is "Normal Again". Its even to the point where I refuse to watch it! I hated that last scene where the doctor tells Hank and Joyce that shes gone implying that it really is all in her head. WTF?

Joss said that he doesn't think it's all in Buffy's head. The last scene is just there to make you wonder, and also 'cause it's fun on a meta-textual level. :)

[doubleshiny]

Oh yeah, Bad Eggs is rubbish. But Gingerbread? Awesome episode!

Not liking an episode doesn't make it bad btw. There are lots of episodes that I don't like but they're not necessarily bad.

[sueworld]

Both are just so poorly written and hard to watch (and the fact that season 7 Spike is just such a poorly written character doesn't help.)


He was? Well shucks, colour me surprised then to hear that. :roll: I rather likes 'Beneath You' myself. Loved the ending. :D

For me it has to be 'Doublemeat palace'. A real waste of an episode on all fronts. :(

[doubleshiny]

Season 7 Spike poorly written?! I strongly disagree. Season 7 was probably the hardest Spike season to write because he's been largely redeemed and is also mad - writing credible madness is difficult but I felt that some of the dialogue was great.

[bknick]

Personally I think the worst episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer is either "Beneath You" or "Lies My Parents Told Me". Both are just so poorly written and hard to watch (and the fact that season 7 Spike is just such a poorly written character doesnt help.)


Gotta disagree on this. Those were some of the most interesting episodes of S7. IMO, S7 Spike was one of the most entertaining (and well written) aspects of the show at that point. Lord knows any Buffy-central plotline wasn't holding my attention, no matter how many times she tried to win me over with her oh-so-not-boring speeches. Spike's persona in S7 was so well-done, that when he showed up on AtS S5 in full Snark-Spike mode, I was thrown. I mean, it made perfect sense, but I had come to know another side of Spike that I wholly accepted prior to his reversion.


Not liking an episode doesn't make it bad btw. There are lots of episodes that I don't like but they're not necessarily bad.

Agreed. For instance, though I don't enjoy "Wrecked" it was still a successful episode.

And yeah, Gingerbread should totally not be on this list.

[DigitalLeonardo]

He was? Well shucks, colour me surprised then to hear that. :roll: I rather likes 'Beneath You' myself. Loved the ending. :D

For me it has to be 'Doublemeat palace'. A real waste of an episode on all fronts. :(

Season 7 Spike poorly written?! I strongly disagree. Season 7 was probably the hardest Spike season to write because he's been largely redeemed and is also mad - writing credible madness is difficult but I felt that some of the dialogue was great.

Gotta disagree on this. Those were some of the most interesting episodes of S7. IMO, S7 Spike was one of the most entertaining (and well written) aspects of the show at that point. Lord knows any Buffy-central plotline wasn't holding my attention, no matter how many times she tried to win me over with her oh-so-not-boring speeches. Spike's persona in S7 was so well-done, that when he showed up on AtS S5 in full Snark-Spike mode, I was thrown. I mean, it made perfect sense, but I had come to know another side of Spike that I wholly accepted prior to his reversion.


That is all valid, I just personally felt that Spike was forced into ALOT of scenes, especlly at the Summers' home. Alot of times it was kinda like "Hmm... why is he there?" and he just didn't bring anything to the episodes he was in (half the time) like "Him" or "Selfless" would have been perfectly fine without him there.

It is sad that they spent more time with Spike and getting his story wrapped up and solid while lacking on getting other characters valid storylines... He was just too forced.

But know alot of people "love" Spike so good for you guys. I will never understand and will always dislike the character.

[bknick]

I just personally felt that Spike was forced into ALOT of scenes, especlly at the Summers' home. Alot of times it was kinda like "Hmm... why is he there?" and he just didn't bring anything to the episodes he was in (half the time) like "Him" or "Selfless" would have been perfectly fine without him there.



On this I agree. But this is the nature of the show, it happened with a lot of characters.

Look at Angel/Angelus in Season Two. They turned him evil and then had to lightly touch on the fact that he was kinda just sitting around for half a season so that the finale was entertaining. "Phases," "Killed by Death," "Go Fish" - Angel necessary to the plot or only forced in because David was in the credits?

This is just the nature of television, and especially Buffy. If Spike can provide one good comment of snark, well then, "put him in the scene!" I do think he was in scenes that he didn't need to be in, but that is visible throughout the entire series with various characters.

And I am no Spike fanboy, but his character was very interesting and entertaining.

[OkinawanSteel]

About the ones in the list ... I have less problems with cheesy episodes like 'Go Fish', 'Beer Bad' 'Inca Mummy Girl' and 'I Robot, You Jane' than with episodes that destroy characters I love. I despise; 'Touched', 'Dead Man's Party', 'Empty Places', 'Lies My Parents Told Me', 'Wrecked' etc. I went with Touched because that one makes my blood boil.

Word to this. I think 'Beer Bad' and such are terrible episodes, but they don't bother me half as much as episodes where the characters are treated poorly. From that list, it's between 'Touched' and 'Wrecked' for me.

[sueworld]

Remind me again what was bad about those episodes? I haven't watched them in quite a while.

[LaJaula]

I personally have only seen Wrecked once, (so I may be a little fuzzy on exact details) but that was enough to make me hate it for all eternity. It's definitely one of those "character-destroying" episodes. I hate what they did to Willow's character-- she used to be a strong person who would stand up for herself, and now she's addicted to crack. The scene in Rack's place really squicked me out; I hate the expressions on Willow's face and how much she is clearly enjoying the experience-- I don't find her to be at all a respectable character at this point. I'm not intrigued by the "new direction" her character is taking; I just miss "I'm eating this banana, lunchtime be damned!" Willow. Also, the entire "magic=drugs" metaphor was hammered home way too often.To quote Ace from TWOP:

Willow's (and Amy's) magic addiction is no longer like a drug addiction -- it is a drug addiction. The magic makes them high. Therefore, the magic is a drug. Therefore, there is no metaphor. Which I find extremely painful.

And I find the rest of the episode pretty boring. Nothing redeemable there, and then when the Willow parts are just awful, this episode comes out at the top of my "Most Hated" list. If not the very top, it's Top 3 along with Doublemeat Palace and Lies My Parents Told Me.

[eveee]

Okay, I dislike 'Superstar'. The first time I ever watched the series, I skipped it, and I have no idea why. I read the blurb for it and it came to me as incredibly boring so I just didn't watch.
The next time I went through and watched it, I found it boring, like I had expected but it set up Jonathan for the arrival of 'the trio', being into magic and all.
Another episode I found hard to watch was 'Him'. I just found it pointless. That's all I have to say about it.
Ooooh, one more; 'Beer Bad'. Also, pointless. The end.

[Tearjerker]

Not on your list but im going to go for "Restless", i totally hated that episode because i thought it was a bad choice of Season Finale

[eveee]

'Restless isn't that bad. It had the cheese guy. Teehee.
Yer, it is bad, ESPECIALLY for a finale. 'Primeval' should have been the finale. Blah.

[Saro49]

Personally I really like wrecked and thought it was a necessary addition to Willow's story-line. I think that it's a poor argument to say it weakens Willow's character. Season Six was all about weakening characters and showing them to be human. That's what makes Buffy special, it's willing to take risks. So I only put in on there because it does have it's haters but as the poll shows it's not so disliked.

Also the reason I put Gingerbread in there is because I wanted something from every season and I just found it a bit lacking in quality.

[Amuk]

'Restless isn't that bad. It had the cheese guy. Teehee.
Yer, it is bad, ESPECIALLY for a finale. 'Primeval' should have been the finale. Blah.

Obviously I have to disagree. :D

Restless is everything we like about Buffy: brilliant, unconventional, and stretches the boundaries of the medium while also advancing character and setting up several plot arcs that come later.

[sueworld]

Restless is everything we like about Buffy: brilliant, unconventional, and stretches the boundaries of the medium while also advancing character and setting up several plot arcs that come later.

Oh god yes, I totally agree! Restless was a simply superb episode. Witty, and clever visually too. I was totally entranced by it when it first aired. :D

It would be far from what I'd see as being a poor episode by a long shot.

[urbanlegend23]

Reptile Boy is the worst, closely followed by Inca Mummy Girl. Both episodes are nearly completely devoid of everything we've come to love about this series.

Almost all of the other episodes on the poll are indeed lacklustre, but they all contain something really good about them too. Beer Bad had the stupid storyline, but the GREAT scenes with Willow/Parker, and I just die with laughter when Giles' explains one of Buffy's cavewoman-symptoms as a "sideways limp" ;) DoubleMeat Palace was campy in an intentional way I think - it didn't always work in the context of the episode and the pacing that particular hour was off, but it wasn't downright terrible like the aforementioned season 2 episodes.

Touched is closer to being one of the series' BEST episodes, not the worst. Is everyone forgetting the great scenes with Buffy/Spike, The Mayor/Faith and the awesome Matrix-esque fight between Buffy and Caleb at the end? WTF? A great episode. If people hate this episode for the gang kicking Buffy out, that doesn't make any sense. That credit should go to Empty Places, when all of that actually takes place - though in my personal opinion, the gang kicking Buffy out wasn't a bad move story-wise and was understandable, and I loved all the final five episode arc a lot.

I also have a soft spot for Wrecked, it's one of the most rewatchable episodes and Alyson Hannigan gives one of her greatest performance in this episode.

[eveee]

Oooh, guys. Yes, Restless isn't too bad. I just don't think it fit in well as a season finale?
I liked the cheese guy. (:

[urbanlegend23]

Restless was pure brilliance and it was good Joss and co. decided to do something different for a season finale. People don't have a problem with Angel's typically anticlimatic season finales.

[vampmogs]

Touched is closer to being one of the series' BEST episodes, not the worst. Is everyone forgetting the great scenes with Buffy/Spike, The Mayor/Faith and the awesome Matrix-esque fight between Buffy and Caleb at the end? WTF? A great episode. If people hate this episode for the gang kicking Buffy out, that doesn't make any sense. That credit should go to Empty Places, when all of that actually takes place - though in my personal opinion, the gang kicking Buffy out wasn't a bad move story-wise and was understandable, and I loved all the final five episode arc a lot.

I disagree I found 'Touched' quite boring and silly really. I hated the montage of the sex and cuddling with the cheesy song playing over it, it felt very "un Buffy" to me. The Buffy/Spike scene seemed like a rehash of the Buffy/Riley scene from 'As You Were' and the bomb? Again, felt very un-Buffy to me. It just didn't seem right, the whole episode felt odd in my opinion. People also have issues with the “Buffy is always right” factor of the episode and Spike being the hero and making out the Scoobies to be villains. Those two issues I have less of a problem with but I do see why they’d be an issue for a lot of fans.

In regards to 'Wrecked' gotta say, also not a fan. I agree with TWOP's irritation concerning the magic/drug "metaphor" that stopped being a metaphor and started being literal. It wasn't clever at all, it was far from subtle and just slapped you in the face with it. I mean seriously, Willow having the shakes in bed as she goes through withdrawals? Please.

[deathrider]

Oooh, guys. Yes, Restless isn't too bad. I just don't think it fit in well as a season finale?
I liked the cheese guy. (:

I thought that it was a great way to bring the season to a close. After the big battle with the Inititive and Adam (where half the episode seem to be in slow motion, lol) I thought to myself "How are they going to top that with the last episode? Everything is already said and done, to another big event is just going to be kicking a dead horse" so you can imagine my surprise when I watched Restless. I really wasn't expecting the finale to be based after the seasons dust had settled, or it to be as calm as it was.

Restless was a great look inside the fears, loves, strengths and the basic persona of the characters that we know and love..... And it was great to see Giles behind the microphone too :D

[bknick]

I'm with the Restless defenders. Whenever Joss gets to run wild in his brain, the episodes are phenomenal. This was the first time we really got to see that. Without the experimental aspects of Restless, we never would have seen brilliant episodes like Once More, With Feeling or Spin the Bottle. Possibly not even The Body.

[vampmogs]

I thought that it was a great way to bring the season to a close. After the big battle with the Inititive and Adam (where half the episode seem to be in slow motion, lol) I thought to myself "How are they going to top that with the last episode? Everything is already said and done, to another big event is just going to be kicking a dead horse" so you can imagine my surprise when I watched Restless. I really wasn't expecting the finale to be based after the seasons dust had settled, or it to be as calm as it was.

Restless was a great look inside the fears, loves, strengths and the basic persona of the characters that we know and love..... And it was great to see Giles behind the microphone too :D

I think it's because people are looking for a big explosive final to end the season out on a bang, whereas 'Restless' was more mellow.

A great suggestion I've heard would be to end season four with 'Primeval' and then have 'Restless' as a special summer episode in-between season four/season five. I think that’s the only other real alternative, you couldn’t have ‘Restless’ come before the end of season four, it wouldn’t make sense, as you say, it had to be after the dramarama of Adam and the Initinative.

[urbanlegend23]

I disagree I found 'Touched' quite boring and silly really. I hated the montage of the sex and cuddling with the cheesy song playing over it, it felt very "un Buffy" to me. The Buffy/Spike scene seemed like a rehash of the Buffy/Riley scene from 'As You Were' and the bomb? Again, felt very un-Buffy to me. It just didn't seem right, the whole episode felt odd in my opinion. People also have issues with the “Buffy is always right” factor of the episode and Spike being the hero and making out the Scoobies to be villains. Those two issues I have less of a problem with but I do see why they’d be an issue for a lot of fans.

In regards to 'Wrecked' gotta say, also not a fan. I agree with TWOP's irritation concerning the magic/drug "metaphor" that stopped being a metaphor and started being literal. It wasn't clever at all, it was far from subtle and just slapped you in the face with it. I mean seriously, Willow having the shakes in bed as she goes through withdrawals? Please.

I don't really think it was 'unBuffy', there's been explosions in other episodes, they were just trying new things. Upping the ante for the final episodes.

Wrecked is a pretty badly done episode in some aspects, I definitely agree and can understand all the criticisms. It just has a special place in my heart - in my younger, more naiive days when it wasn't so apparent to me that it was a drug metaphor, I found the episode really heartbreaking. Alyson's performance is so great she saves the episode for me still to this day.

[doubleshiny]

I can see why people felt that Wrecked was badly done, but there had to be some plot drive towards the end of Season 6, otherwise the Evil Willow storyline would have seemed jarring. If you think about it, if it wasn't for Wrecked then there wouldn't really have been a catalyst for Willow's DIY rehab or the reconciliation with Tara before Seeing Red.

[urbanlegend23]

It could've been done more with more subtlety though. It was definitely one of the show's more heavy-handed metaphors.

[vampmogs]

I can see why people felt that Wrecked was badly done, but there had to be some plot drive towards the end of Season 6, otherwise the Evil Willow storyline would have seemed jarring. If you think about it, if it wasn't for Wrecked then there wouldn't really have been a catalyst for Willow's DIY rehab or the reconciliation with Tara before Seeing Red.

That's actually one of the reasons a lot of fans have a problem with 'Wrecked.' It made Willow's problem into an addiction when it was always about her need for power. The drug metaphor screwed that up a little when Willow's journey was always about the thirst for power and knowledge, by 'Two to Go' and 'Grave' the writers get back to that.

WILLOW: It's about power.

[sueworld]

It could've been done more with more subtlety though. It was definitely one of the show's more heavy-handed metaphors.

Yes, it could have been, but then the whole of season six wasn't handled very subtly at all really. It seemed every idea was 'banged home' with a spade when it came to all the characters development. :lol:

[deathrider]

It could've been done more with more subtlety though. It was definitely one of the show's more heavy-handed metaphors.

The whole idea with season 6 was "Lets stop beating around the bush". That's why allot of things are more in your face than they had been in previous Buffy seasons. Willows magic addition, Warren murdering his ex, Buffy and Spikes all out steamyness- these all came across more realistically and more adult than you would usually expect from Buffy. It was a dark stage in the series, and it couldn't have addressed these issues half as well if it didn't take that dark turn.

[Enisy]

Related quote:

Joss Whedon: I love Season 6. It's really important. But it was a very stark thing to do. It wasn't just putting Buffy in a very bad, abusive, weird relationship, it was some sort of an end to magic. For me because childhood is so rich with metaphor, a lot of it had to do with leaving that behind. Instead of a bigger than life villain, we had the nerd troika. Instead of drinking blood and doing spells as sexual metaphor, we had sex. Things became very literal and they lost some of their loveliness. I still think that a lot of the best episodes we ever did were in Season 6.

I think I would have had issues with the drug metaphor even if it had been executed more subtly, though. The rest of the characters' storylines I liked, despite (in many cases because of) their literal nature.

[Rowan Hawthorn]

In general, I didn't have any problem with Season Six. Except that it contains my choice for "worst episode" - and it's none of the choices offered: "As You Were".

[buffyholic]

I love how S6 took risks and took a darker turn. It was heartbreaking at times, seeing the gang be so unfriendly with each other and taking a darker route. S6 has some bad episodes, but nothing beats "I Robot you Jane".

[Rowan Hawthorn]

Nope, I'm gonna have to stick to my guns. About the only good part of AYW was Willow being all friendly to Mrs. Finn and then calling her a bitch behind her back...

[sueworld]

I wasn't too keen on AYW either I'm afraid. I found the whole thing to be a bit clumsily written somehow and the 'look, look you would have had a wonderful life with Riley' message a bit too forced, and and don't get me started on 'Spike is 'the Doctor' malarkey.

That element just didn't sit right for me I'm afraid. It seemed so out of character in an odd way, as well as every time 'The Doctor' was mentioned I was waiting for Spike make his entrance in a police box. :roll:

[deathrider]

One of the major low points in As You Were, in my opinion, was the monster of the week. Now, we all now that most of the beasts are just guys in costumes, but this beast looked really tacky. Like Red Dwarf kinda tacky.

I was never a fan of Riley Finn either, so I wasn't too happy about his unwelcome return (even if it was just for one episode.)

I did, however, love Buffy's reaction when Riley walked into the Double Meat Palace. "My hat has a cow." :roll:

[sueworld]

I was never a fan of Riley Finn either, so I wasn't too happy about his unwelcome return (even if it was just for one episode.)


Thing is I actually liked Riley and sympathized with his character in the show, but there was something just 'off' about his portrayal in this somehow. He seemed to have lost some of the character progression that he'd made in earlier seasons. Seemingly slipping back to 'Mr Cardboard military guy' that I thought he'd outgrown in season 5.

[deathrider]

Riley resorting back to his old self is kinda to be expected. When he left in season 5, he did so to rejoin a military style operation. So the fact the he became all up-tight, and soldier-esque again isn't really that surprising.

[Sosa lola]

Riley resorting back to his old self is kinda to be expected. When he left in season 5, he did so to rejoin a military style operation. So the fact the he became all up-tight, and soldier-esque again isn't really that surprising.

I agree. I think it's what Riley knew best. He was far happier being a soldier than a Scooby. However, I do think he kept his character-development. The way he was controling his emotions at the sight of Buffy/Spike sex and his speech to Buffy showed amazing growth.

[sueworld]

Amazing growth, or just that he didn't love her anymore?

[LaJaula]

Amazing growth, or just that he didn't love her anymore?

I think the fact that he didn't love her anymore shows his growth. His life earlier was so dependent on Buffy-- Forrest (and later Graham) constantly points out that Riley bases all of his actions and thoughts on what Buffy thinks-- so the fact that he's able to move on from her, and then look back objectively on her and their relationship, shows that he's grown as a person. He feels secure enough with himself now.

[vampmogs]

Amazing growth, or just that he didn't love her anymore?

It obviously stung him, you can see it. He's just mature enough and dignified enough to handle it and not engage in an argument about it. When he's alone in private with Buffy you see his frustration come out, "You think I like seeing you in bed with that idiot?" He cared he just acted in a very mature manner about the whole thing.

As for his growth, I agree that he grew. Early season 4 Riley would have dusted Spike, but this time when he had the orders he gave Buffy the option instead.

[RuFio]

I didn't think As You Were was a bad episode at all. I thought it was interesting to see riley again just for one episode and to see the interaction between him, buffy & spike again. Although it was kind of depressing for Buffy. She seemed just a LITTLE healthier when she was with Riley.
But also, Willow calling Rileys wife a bitch behind her back is soo funny and the ending is nicely done with Buffy finally leaving her relationship with Spike behind.

The only episode I can say that I probably really don't like is Inca Mummy Girl. I think I've only seen it once, but it was making me fall asleep so that's never a good sign. A lot of the other typical bad episodes (I robot, you jane...reptile boy, beer bad) are fun to watch to me. Even though I don't consider them 'great' episodes, I find the metaphor behind them interesting.

[vampmogs]

I don't get the hate for 'Reptile Boy' really. I mean it's got far more charm than 'Gone' or 'Wrecked' and there's some really good moments in there as well. It's a monster of the week episode, but not a terribly bad one in my opinion. Not compared to 'Beer Bad' or 'I Robot You Jane.'

[deathrider]

Reptile Boy wasn't the worst of them. I actually really enjoyed it (except maybe for the fact we had to see Xander in a bra, lol). I really liked the idea of Buffy thinking "To hell with it. I've been miss goody goody for to long and tonight I'm going to break a rule or two."

The monster in this episode looked surprisingly good considering it's shear size. Although, I did feel it was defeated a little too easily.

[doubleshiny]

That's actually one of the reasons a lot of fans have a problem with 'Wrecked.' It made Willow's problem into an addiction when it was always about her need for power. The drug metaphor screwed that up a little when Willow's journey was always about the thirst for power and knowledge, by 'Two to Go' and 'Grave' the writers get back to that.

WILLOW: It's about power.


But the need for power can be seen as an addiction, it manifests itself in the same way. I don't think that it can be said that Willow's story arc was only about power and knowledge either, I think there was a strong element of self-actualisation which was also about her doing something which others wouldn't have approved of.

[Koos]

Touched was by far the worst episode of the entire show. There are a more bad episodes, but they stand alone. They were poor written or just stupid. This one was *the* episode showing why S7 sucked. It sucked all the fun out of the show and made it a joke.

[Cinderela]

I would vote for "none of the above", because my own *personal* hate list has "Ted" and "Bad Eggs" at or near the very top! There's cheese and then there's *cheese*! :roll:

[deathrider]

Ah, yes, I had forgotten all about Bad Eggs. I think this could actually be my least favorite episode ever.

It was a fun idea to have little brain-washing monsters living inside the eggs, but it simply didn't work. Why on earth did those who were possessed act normal when around those who where not possessed, but become stiff and almost lifeless, staring straight ahead when around their own kind :s The Bizzor also seemed incredibly tacky, and the cowboy vampires just didn't do it for me at all.

I think this could be the worse ever episode, in my opinion.

[prayer]

I don't undersant the hate of touched. It's not the best episode but it's far from the worst. The bomb is silly but everything else is okay.
I really, really hate Lessons.

[jl45]

Not on your list but im going to go for "Restless", i totally hated that episode because i thought it was a bad choice of Season Finale

This is my least favourite one too. I'm currently watching all 7 series for the first time after being talked into it by a friend. I actually emailed him earlier today about this episode, this is what I said

"I just finished Buffy season 4, watched the last 2 episodes just now, to be honest I really could have done without the final episode Ive just been reading up on it and apparently everyone loves it, i didnt though, seemed like it was directed by David Lynch but I checked and it was a Joss Weedon episode, am just listening to the commentary now, he is just explaining why they didnt finish the season with the big end of Adam episode. There were some good moments (giles performing and Anya's 'quiet or you'll miss the humourous conclusion'; comment') I also think that now Spike has replaced Xander as my favorite charecter."

Having had a few more hours to digest, Im really starting to hate it, I will watch it again, maybe tonight or tomorrow as I really want to like it (or rather dont want to dislike it) as its the only episode I haven't liked so far. I just feel like Weedon took a bunch of film and had a massive wank on it or something.

[vampmogs]

'Restless' is an in-depth character study of all the four main characters, it delves into their insecurities their passions, their likes and dislikes and reflects on the past as well as looks ahead to the future. It's jambled because it's supposed to be a dream and I think he managed to very realistically capture that dream-like feel where nothing is fluid.

[Amuk]

Exactly. I'd suggest not bothering with watching it again just yet. I think you'll appreciate Restless better the next time you watch the show. In addition to capturing the feel of a dream, as vampmogs put it, there are a number of themes and ideas that will play out over the rest of the show's run that are planted in Restless. You'll appreciate the episode's subtlties more when you've seen how it all plays out.

[deathrider]

Restless is simply brilliant Buffy, and it sums up everything we love and hate about our favorite characters. Not only does it show who Giles, Willow, Xander and Buffy really are, but it also shows why there are this way.

It's an incredibly messy episode, but that's the beauty of it. It wouldn't have felt like a dream if it had of played out to a normal timeline. But it does manage to put the main characters mind-sets into perspective.

[bknick]

I don't get the Restless hate.

It is an experimental episode, no doubt, but really pretty brilliant and vividly engaging. How anyone could throw Restless along the lines of Beer Bad, Bad Eggs, and Doublemeat Palace is just beyond me.

[DigitalLeonardo]

I don't get the Restless hate.

It is an experimental episode, no doubt, but really pretty brilliant and vividly engaging. How anyone could throw Restless along the lines of Beer Bad, Bad Eggs, and Doublemeat Palace is just beyond me.

Totally agree (though Bad Eggs wasn't that bad), but Restless I always find so epic, everytime I watch it. It is so beautifully shot and just so well written. Every dream is so perfect for the character and the entire desert scene with Buffy, Tara and The First Slayer is such a stunning scene and personally I think it is one of the most BEAUTIFULY shot things I've seen on TV.

[vampmogs]

Agreed. The desert scene is very, very well done. And it gives us one of Buffy's best lines in the series in my opinion;

BUFFY: I walk. I talk. I shop, I sneeze. I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones.

Now give me back my friends.

Awesome. :D

I also like 'Bad Eggs' as well. I mean it's not *brilliant* but as far as MOW episodes go, it's one of the better ones. It has great Buffy/Xander interaction as well.