Your current OTP

[NancyBoy]

So I wonder - what's your current Buffy OTP (One True Pairing)? Why? Do you read fanfics about your OTP, and if you do, can you give us a link to your favourite fic about your pairing?
(The last question is the main once, actually. I'm desprate for some good fanfics, aspecially Buffy/Faith fanfics. ;))

[sueworld]

*Looks at own banner* I think you can probaly guess what my OTP is. :roll:

Saying that when it comes to fanfic I'm fairly free and easy. I prefer to read something which includes Spike in, so my pairing range from a wee bit of Spuffy, through to Wes/Spike, Giles/Spike, Spike/Xander, Spike/Lindsey, and Spike/Dru, and repeat as required. :lol: All erotica of course. :D

As to favorite fanfics. Oh I have too many to list here, but as far as fairly 'worksafe' ones I'd say this for starters.

Vampire Winter (Spike/Angel/Buffy) by deborahmm

http://distortingmirrors.notanothersite.com/vampirewinter.html

As well as any Spander fics by Estepheia

As to any rec's for Faith/Buffy, I'm afraid I can't help you there as I don't read that pairing myself. Sorry. :( But I'm sure there must be a ton on live journal somewhere.

[NancyBoy]

Cool! I'm working on reading the fanfic you recommended (I'm not a fast reader, especially not in English), but you made me curious - Wes/Spike? Anything good?

[molly13]

My OTP is Spike/Buffy as you can probably tell by my icon :)
Promise of Frost is one of my favorite fanfics... here's the link if anyone's interested http://www.athenewolfe.com/justrewards/viewstory.php?sid=611&index=1

[Sosa lola]

My OTP is shown in my banner and icon. Guess! :D

I'm like Sue, but with Xander. I've read Xander paired with every single character on the show, except Willy, that'll be a funny fic.

Xander/Spike comes in top, other Xander ships I enjoy are Xander/Angel-us, Xander/Giles, Xander/Dawn, Xander/Buffy, Xander/Cordelia, Xander/Larry and Xander/Oz...

Nowadays I'm more into friendship and gen fics, much less into slash and het, though.

My favorite Xander/Spike fic at the moment is He Needs Me by Slaymesoftly:

http://slaymesoftly.livejournal.com/tag/he+needs+me

[sueworld]

Cool! I'm working on reading the fanfic you recommended (I'm not a fast reader, especially not in English), but you made me curious - Wes/Spike? Anything good?

Well there's a few on deborahmm's site (some are very dark/kinky so observe the warnings If you so decided to read them) but as to 'milder' fics there's this from her site

Perfect Day rating R

http://distortingmirrors.notanothersite.com/perfectday.html

White Shirt NC 17 (Drabble)

http://distortingmirrors.notanothersite.com/whiteshirt.html

[XavierZane]

My current OTP is Buffy/Xander. For awhile it was Buffy/Spike, and before that Cordelia/Xander, but then I saw the light.

There's a lot less good B/X fanfic than there should be, but here's a couple of good authors:

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/58248/Brooke1

and

http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=m_mcgregor

The second one throws in a healthy portion of Faith/Xander into most of his stories, but there's nothing wrong with that. :D

As for Buffy/Spike, I've lost my links to a lot of my favorites, but I still have probably my favorite of all time:

http://spuffystuff.org/Prologue.htm

[Enisy]

Buffy/Spike? Really? I would never have guessed. :blink:

Most of my favourites are listed here (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=enisy), if anyone wants to take a look. There are a few more that aren't available on LiveJournal -- I'll post the links to those later.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

I don't have a Buffy OTP really. Started off with Buffy/Spike but now, search me. I think Buffy and Xander would make a good couple, but I'm not passionate about it. In terms of fics, I think I'm more interested in angsty/character/wacky stuff at the moment.

[sueworld]

I don't have a Buffy OTP really. Started off with Buffy/Spike but now, search me. I think Buffy and Xander would make a good couple, but I'm not passionate about it. In terms of fics, I think I'm more interested in angsty/character/wacky stuff at the moment.

Have you read Heroes in Hell then? Buffy/Spike.

http://distortingmirrors.notanothersite.com/heroesinhell.html

I think it would appeal to your sense of humour and the absurd. Also it's extremely well written which I suppose does help somewhat. :lol:

It's rated R too.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Have you read Heroes in Hell then? Buffy/Spike.

http://distortingmirrors.notanothersite.com/heroesinhell.html

I think it would appeal to your sense of humour and the absurd. Also it's extremely well written which I suppose does help somewhat. :lol:

It's rated R too.

Ooh, thanks very much for the rec! I haven't been reading much fanfic at all lately, but would like a little to explore.

I'm wondering why I don't have an OTP in Buffy....I think it's partly because season 7 ended with the (rubbish speech but truthful to character development) scenario of "cookie dough" Buffy, so I'm inclined to think of her as not in a relationship as her natural state - or at least, for now.

And I was never as invested in the relationships of non Buffy people. I mean, people not Buffy!

Willow never really had a relationship I was wholly into. Though I would've loved it if they'd given her a bad girl non Tara girlfriend in her bad skanky season 6 period. Someone insalubrious and naughty. Someone who's basically a magic version of Shane from the L Word. Mmmmm!

And Xander...well, I think he'd fit with Buffy now, but not so much in teh past....or perhaps, not even quite yet...?

Giles and Ethan are my buddy-pairing-with-subtext OTP perhaps. And Giles/Andrew as exasperation buddies. Anyone know any good fics about Giles training Andrew? Not in a dirty way (my brain would break I think at the thought of them together...though if someone wrote a convincing one of those I would take my hat off and eat it).

[sueworld]

Willow never really had a relationship I was wholly into. Though I would've loved it if they'd given her a bad girl non Tara girlfriend in her bad skanky season 6 period. Someone insalubrious and naughty. Someone who's basically a magic version of Shane from the L Word. Mmmmm!


The nearest we got with that was Amy I suppose, but not even a hint at anything sexual between them, sadly.

Giles and Ethan are my buddy-pairing-with-subtext OTP perhaps.

Have you read any fics by Estepheia on live journal? She always writes wonderful fics with those two. It's a pity she's not as active in fandom anymore. Her standard of writing was always very high.

As to Giles/Andrew. Err, no. I haven't seen any in that pairing really. But then as Andrew still grates on me to this day I suppose If I had I may have blanked them out! :roll:

[XavierZane]

Aww, poor Andrew! Everyone hates him, except me.

For funzies!:

Top 5 Favorite Pairings

5. Wesley/Illyria
4. Buffy/Spike
3. Cordelia/Xander
2. Wesley/Lilah
1. Buffy/Xander

Honorable Mentions: Willow/Kennedy, Angel/Cordelia, Xander/Anya.

Top 3 Least Favorite Pairings

3. Gunn/Fred
2. Wesley/Fred
1. Angel/Buffy

I loved Fred, really. :lol:

[Enisy]

Wow, nice lists, Xavier. :)

I've never liked Wesley/Fred all that much, either. I thought it would be right up my alley, what with the unrequited love, but... no. Might be because of the Instant Romance in Season 5 of Angel; always a turn-off for me (see Angel/Cordelia, see Angel/Buffy, see Gunn/Fred).

[Sosa lola]

I also never liked Welsey/Fred! :D Nice to know I'm not the only one. Actually I thought Gunn and Fred were adorable in S3, but they had to break them up in S4 for Wesley/Fred.

I don't like when a relationship turns into this big romance thing. I like it more when it's normal... or you know ugly, but at least realistic.

[XavierZane]

I liked Fred as a character best when she was solitary, or when she was simultaneously ruining her relationship with both Gunn and Wes like in Season 4. She was also great when she was crazy or when she was badass. I loved her in the beginning of Season 3. I loved her holding a crossbow on someone and explaining exactly how he was going to die once she shot him through the throat. I loved her going after her bastard of a professor in vengeful fury. I hated them making her the perfect love of every guy that got within ten feet of her. I also hated that Wes' crush on her ruined what he had with Lilah, which was more real than anything he ever got with Fred or would have gotten even if she hadn't been gutted by Illyria.

But, as much as I loved Fred, I really really really love Illyria.

[LaJaula]

My three favorite ships are Xander/Cordelia, Angel/Cordelia, and Wesley/Lilah. Annnndd...all of those are pretty much done, considering that out of five people listed, four of them are dead. I don't really 'ship any of them in the sense that I would like them to get back together (actually, if Cordy or Lilah did legitimately, 100%-for-real come back from the dead, I'd be pretty annoyed), but I do appreciate them in their time. But since I'm a huge stickler for canon, it makes it hard to find fics-- I love "Missing Moment" fics, but if it goes AU at all, (like Cordelia and Angel hooking up in the middle of AtS Season Two) then I lose interest.

As far as my least favorite 'ships, I'd have to say Fred/Gunn, Willow/Kennedy, and Fred/Wesley-- although I do love Wesley's obsession with her. I thought it made his character so much more interesting, and I was disappointed in Season Five when the writers turned it into this adorable whirlwind romance instead of the much darker and complex relationship that it had been in Seasons Three and Four.

And as for Buffy...I go back and forth on whether I like her better with Angel or Spike. But right now, she's kind of lost my love, so I can't really work up the energy to want her with anyone.

[sueworld]

I used to adore Wes/Lilah! What a marvelosuly dark relationship they had. A fantastic match.

It's such a shame that they didn't deem to bring her back for season 5. That would have been the cherry of the cake for me if they had. :D

[Enisy]

As far as my least favorite 'ships, I'd have to say Fred/Gunn, Willow/Kennedy, and Fred/Wesley-- although I do love Wesley's obsession with her. I thought it made his character so much more interesting, and I was disappointed in Season Five when the writers turned it into this adorable whirlwind romance instead of the much darker and complex relationship that it had been in Seasons Three and Four.

That's it exactly.

And I'm right there with you on the Illyria love, Xavier. She's my third favourite character in the 'verse, after Buffy and Spike. I never really liked Fred... Joss seems to enjoy the "genius"/"off with the faeries" dichotomy (also evident in Firefly's River), but I just can't sympathize with those kind of characters at all.

[sueworld]

And I'm right there with you on the Illyria love, Xavier. She's my third favourite character in the 'verse, after Buffy and Spike. I never really liked Fred... Joss seems to like the "genius"/"off with the faeries" dichotomy (also evident in Firefly's River), but I just can't sympathize with those kind of characters at all.

Me neither. Women who looked like they'd snap in half with a good gust of wind and who 'baby talk' leave me cold. :roll:

[Nina]

Angel/Buffy is my OTP since I was 12 years old. But I'm losing interest; like LaJaula ... I lost a lot of my love for Buffy. She starts to annoy me and I'm getting the 'Angel can do better' vibe. So the ship gets less and less attractive for me. It's still my number one, but if Angel ends up with Nina (or another nice girl) I would love it as well. The Cordy/Angel ship is for me a difficult one, I really dislike the 'best friends become lovers' relations and this is one of those relations. But I love the last couple of times we saw them together. But she is dead anyway ... so I won't have to be confused about it.

I also love Wesley/Lilah, their twisted relation was great. I loved their conversations and their last scene in 'Home'.

Darla/Angelus is also a favourite of mine, I don't want them back again. But I enjoy the flashbacks, I love how well they know eachother and how rational they are.

If I had to make a list;

1. Angel/Buffy
2. Angelus/Darla
3. Wesley/Lilah
4. Xander/Cordelia

[Enisy]

Me neither. Women who looked like they'd snap in half with a good gust of wind and who 'baby talk' leave me cold. :roll:

And yet you're okay with Spike/Fred? :p It doesn't even have potential for wallsecks!

My favourites:

1) Spike/Buffy
2) Wesley/Illyria
3) Angel/Darla
4) Wesley/Lilah
5) Angel/Spike

(Also really fond of Angel/Faith, while Angel/Nina, Xander/Dawn, Giles/Faith and Xander/Buffy are growing on me.)

[Nina]

Angel/Nina and Dawn/Xander are growing on me as well, but not enough to put them somewhere in my list ... but they have the potential to get a place. The same for Gwen/Connor.

[Enisy]

Gwen/Connor seems dead in the water, so I won't even bother to get invested in it... :\

[KingofCretins]

Buffy/Xander, by far, for me. It's the most emotional investment I have in any Buffy 'ship in which both characters are still alive for the 'ship to be actively supported.

I like Angel/Nina, I like ("Angel: After the Fall") Gwonnor and haven't given up on it, I like Xander/Dawn or Xander/Faith as alternatives to Buffy/Xander. I like Willow/Kennedy. If they break up, and (Season 8 spoilers through 8.26) Oz and Willow got back together, I wouldn't find it horrible, either.

[missperoxide]

1) Spike/Buffy
2) Wes/Lilah
3) Angel/Cordy
4) Willow/Oz
5) Spike/Dru
Honorable mention: Doyle/Cordy

EDT:
Least favourites:
Wes/Fred
Angel/Buffy

[sueworld]

And yet you're okay with Spike/Fred? It doesn't even have potential for wallsecks!

In the comic it would be okay, especially as I don't believe that they will pair any of the main characters with anyone.

In the show I liked Fred when she wasn't being so,...err,...'cute'. When she was serious and acting like a grown up she was fine. But Joss does seem to have a fetish for women that are supposedly brilliant in some way and yet who talk like five year olds half the time. :roll: which quite frankly grates on me after a while.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Thanks for the link Sue :)

Re a couple of other people's posts, I didn't realise we were doing Ats so...

Wes/Lilah, yes please. Hawt.

I also enjoy Cordy/Groo (he is also hot - so sweet and innocent), though I felt very sorry for him when he realized that she really wanted Angel. Sniff.

[prayer]

My OTP is, and have always been Cordy/Angel. I have no problem with the friends turning into lovers thing. And I am so angry with the fact that they never really got it together.

Favourites:
1. Cangel
2. Wes/Fred
3. Spike/Buffy


Least favourites:
1. Bangel - euw, euw, euw.

[Skippcomet]

In the show I liked Fred when she wasn't being so,...err,...'cute'. When she was serious and acting like a grown up she was fine. But Joss does seem to have a fetish for women that are supposedly brilliant in some way and yet who talk like five year olds half the time. :roll: which quite frankly grates on me after a while.

To ironically quote one of those same women, "Right there with ya." :lol:

[sueworld]

To ironically quote one of those same women, "Right there with ya." :lol:

Oh thank god It's not just me then! :roll: I'm always amazed that considering Joss's stance on 'strong women' that he so readily falls into the trap of creating characters that are just one step away from being the kind of frail looking childlike heroines that you used to see in Victorian novels. :s

[vampmogs]

Oh thank god It's not just me then! :roll: I'm always amazed that considering Joss's stance on 'strong women' that he so readily falls into the trap of creating characters that are just one step away from being the kind of frail looking childlike heroines that you used to see in Victorian novels. :s

Who cares what they look like though? Fred may have been "frail" but she's also incredibly smart, a surviver, has a huge heart, is brave, a hero ect. She's a strong women regardless of her body image.

I'm sure Amy Acker wouldn't care for people judging her on how strong a woman she is on how frail her body image appears to be.

As to my relationships, well I don't read fanfic and I'm not a shipper but my top five would have to be, in no real order;

1) Buffy/Angel
2) Buffy/Xander
3) Xander/Cordy
4) Wes/Lilah
5) Angelus/Darla

With Spike/Dru and Willow/Oz coming in close behind.

[sueworld]

It wasn't just what they looked like, it was how they came across when interacting with other characters.

Fred was meant to be incredibly smart, but that silly 'baby talk' used to get on my nerves quite frankly. Willow did the same, and although her character pulled it off better in my eyes, even she irritated me sometimes.

Joss seems to like them pretty but with infantile overtones. I'm amazed that Buffy didn't end up talking like a five year old half the time. :roll:

[Enisy]

Why do you guys always list Angelus/Darla as a favourite? Didn't you like the Angel/Darla dynamic in Season 2 and 3 of Angel? That's when the pairing first clicked for me; I hadn't been interested in it at all before.

Fred was meant to be incredibly smart, but that silly 'baby talk' used to get on my nerves quite frankly. Willow did the same, and although her character pulled it off better in my eyes, even she irritated me sometimes.

Don't forget River in Firefly. My God how it grates.

[sueworld]

Yeah, a pretty slip of a thing who's bonkers. Oh there's a big change....:roll:

[Skippcomet]

Yeah, a pretty slip of a thing who's bonkers. Oh there's a big change....:roll:

Not to mention how she's really the deadliest, most powerful person on her show (or is transformed into same), who just so happens to suffer a traumatizing incident that is so much more severe and worse than any of the traumatizing incidents that have befallen the other cast members that everybody has to stop everything and focus on her pain/misfortune/problem.

That's the basic plot of the last few episodes of Season Six, right? Or is that A Hole in the World? No, wait, I think that was the plot of Serenity....:rotflmao:

[cheryl4ba]

Buffy and Angel
Spike and Dru
Willow and Oz
Wes and Lilah
Xander and Cordy

Also loved Willow and Tara and Xander and Anya

[vampmogs]

Why do you guys always list Angelus/Darla as a favourite? Didn't you like the Angel/Darla dynamic in Season 2 and 3 of Angel? That's when the pairing first clicked for me; I hadn't been interested in it at all before.

It was ok but it made Angel come across as a real ass sometimes so it didn't do a lot of favours for his character, it messed him up, exactly like Wolfram and Hart intended for it to. It made me resent their present day relationship more than admire it.

Besides, whilst there was clearly romantic subtext between them, especially when Darla started to feel the weight of Connor's soul it was never truly a romance. Angel tells her he couldn't love her without a soul, in all honesty doesn’t loose to much sleep over her death, and Darla tells him that Connor is the first thing she's ever loved as well.

I liked Angelus/Darla because it was awesomely surprising and twisty. I loved seeing how Darla really was the one who shaped and made Angelus, I loved how she hits him with a shovel, how Angelus tells Holtz were Darla is but how Darla tries to rescue Angelus in Rome. You never knew what to expect from them, it made it fun.

[Bubblecat]

Hummm...this got me thinking actually. Thinking about whether I'd changed over the years regarding my favourites, but it would appear that I have not, so here goes:

Favourites:
Buffy/Angel
Willow/Oz
Willow/Tara

Least Favourites:
Angel/Cordy

I actually prefer the friendships between the characters, rather than the relationships. So, Angel & Cordy's friendship I really like, as with Xander & Willow.

[doubleshiny]

I think pairings get a bit dull if they're hammered out, I prefer the ones which don't make it. I was glad when Spike and Buffy got together because it was so very wrong, but where does it go from there? They weren't going to settle down and have tiny bleached blonde children, so it was a one way train to angst city in a carriage full of pain.

Like Truman Capote said, "More tears are shed for answered prayers than unanswered ones", though I doubt he was talking about Spuffy. More likely he was a Supernatural fan.

[Enisy]

Yep. There's a reason there's more fanfiction written for Spike/Buffy than any other Buffyverse 'ship. Supporters have to make their own fun, 'cause the canon, not so helpful in that regard. ;)

Welcome to the forum, by the way. :hug:

[Moscow Watcher]

My OTP is Spuffy. Otherwise, I'm omnivorous - I love all ships, both canonical and not canonical.

My favorite Spuffy fanfics are

Long Day's Journey by Anaross

http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=anaross&keyword=Journey&filter=all
or
http://www.athenewolfe.com/justrewards/viewstory.php?sid=557

Finished, PG-13 Post Chosen. 180,000 plus words.

Why I love the story: professional novelist and writing teacher, Anaross (aka Alira) created an epic alternate season 5 of AtS in which Spike's return is seen through the eyes of Angel and his team. Plot: Powers That Be brought Spike back under the condition that he is bound to Angel to help him on his journey. Besides, there is a secret clause in their agreement: Spike is not allowed to see Buffy. Each chapter is written on behalf of different character and their tales interweave as they put together fragments of a filigree mosaic. It's a superb character study of all Angelverse regulars; it's a well-plotted detective investigation as various characters try to find out who is Connor and why he's so important to Angel's journey; and, last but not least, it's a poignantly beautiful love story in which Buffy and Spike switch their traditional roles.

The Butterfly Effect by Cousinjean

http://www.dark-solace.org/elysian/viewstory.php?sid=421&ageconsent=ok

Finished, R, post-Chosen. Buffy's mission: to travel back in time into a post-Lie To Me timeline to retrieve a mysterious artefact. She takes a memory-viping potion to eraze the memories of the person she selects to help her. She only has one dose so she has to select the most trustworthy person. She plans to turn to Giles, but circumstances force her to confide in Spike - unsouled, unchipped and thoroughly evil. The Spike who hates her. And, as they work together and he starts to appreciate her, she remembers that she will have to eraze his memories of everything that happens between them...
Why I love the story: There is a lot of good plotty fics that focus on twists and turns and double-dealings and don't pay much attention to characters' journeys. There are many great character studies that concentrate on their inner turmoil and hard choices. But "The Butterfly Effect" is a rare gem that skillfully combines breathtaking adventure story and powerful hero journeys of both Buffy and Spike. The style is lean, spare, graphic during action and interaction episodes, poignantly introspective during intimate scenes. And the story is ingeniously written into TV!canon (although it's not comics-compliant).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As to Buffy/Faith fanfic, I recommenв to check Buffy/Faith ship manifesto (comments also have useful links)

http://community.livejournal.com/ship_manifesto/3311.html

As well as Buffy\Faith section of Buffy Fiction archive

http://archive.shriftweb.org/archive/BuffyFaith.html

[KingofCretins]

Yep. There's a reason there's more fanfiction written for Spike/Buffy than any other Buffyverse 'ship. Supporters have to make their own fun, 'cause the canon, not so helpful in that regard. ;)

Welcome to the forum, by the way. :hug:

Sorry, but pfffft :)

The next time (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/065_summ.html) that the canon (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/082_summ.html) isn't "fun" (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/085_summ.html) for or kind (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/103_summ.html) to fans (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/transcripts/107_tran.html) of Buffy (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/108_summ.html)/Spike (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/109_summ.html) will be the first (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/113_summ.html) time that it (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/131_summ.html) hasn't been (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/133_summ.html) nice to Spuffy fans (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/134_summ.html) since people started (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/136_summ.html) to like (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/139_summ.html) that relationship (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/142_summ.html) at all (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/144_summ.html).

More on-screen macking, sex, angst, and intense stares in the Spuffy lore than for any other 'ship. If one, as Spuffies do, dates the 'ship back to Season 4, it got half again to twice as much screen time as Buffy/Angel, and more exposure over the same time as Xander/Anya. No pity party for the Spuffy fans ;)

[Wolfie Gilmore]

Sorry, but pfffft :)

The next time (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/065_summ.html) that the canon (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/082_summ.html) isn't "fun" (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/085_summ.html) for or kind (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/103_summ.html) to fans (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/transcripts/107_tran.html) of Buffy (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/108_summ.html)/Spike (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/109_summ.html) will be the first (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/113_summ.html) time that it (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/131_summ.html) hasn't been (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/133_summ.html) nice to Spuffy fans (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/134_summ.html) since people started (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/136_summ.html) to like (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/139_summ.html) that relationship (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/142_summ.html) at all (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/144_summ.html).

More on-screen macking, sex, angst, and intense stares in the Spuffy lore than for any other 'ship. If one, as Spuffies do, dates the 'ship back to Season 4, it got half again to twice as much screen time as Buffy/Angel, and more exposure over the same time as Xander/Anya. No pity party for the Spuffy fans ;)

Not a spuffy here, but I'd still date it back even further :D Season 2, from Spike's point of view - the very first scene he sees Buffy could be seen as "first base" for Spike (since beating him up is whatever base)...he's sighted his "prey" and is ready to engage. Sex and killing, pretty much the same for him at that time after all :D :D

[Enisy]

Sorry, but pfffft :)

The next time (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/065_summ.html) that the canon (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/082_summ.html) isn't "fun" (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/085_summ.html) for or kind (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/103_summ.html) to fans (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/transcripts/107_tran.html) of Buffy (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/108_summ.html)/Spike (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/109_summ.html) will be the first (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/113_summ.html) time that it (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/131_summ.html) hasn't been (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/133_summ.html) nice to Spuffy fans (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/134_summ.html) since people started (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/136_summ.html) to like (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/139_summ.html) that relationship (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/142_summ.html) at all (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/144_summ.html).

Oh, you know what I mean. :) Just that there's more mystery surrounding the nature of the relationship and their feelings and their future than pretty much any other 'ship in the 'verse. (As noted by Joss in Chosen.)

[KingofCretins]

What I'd argue then, is not that fans write about what they go unfulfilled on in the strictest sense (because then there'd be more non-canon, non-PWP fic than any other kind), but rather what they feel the most need to explain or... validate. Authenticate? Fanwank?

A number of 'ships, both canon and non-canon, make such straightforward sense they don't require much thought as to why a couple would get together. It's the couples that get together against the grain that seem to draw the most fanfic attention. Ergo, Buffy/Spike. Ergo, Cordy/Angel. Ergo, Buffy/Faith. Things like pretty much any Xander 'ship, or, say, Giles/Jenny don't rate the same level of fic attention because there aren't as many things about them that fans need to suss out for themselves. It also explains why there is much more Buffy/Xander fic than one might think despite no on-screen 'ship to this point; because it's the 'ship most often told "well, that wouldn't make sense". So we write to prove that it does :)

[Moscow Watcher]

What I'd argue then, is not that fans write about what they go unfulfilled on in the strictest sense (because then there'd be more non-canon, non-PWP fic than any other kind), but rather what they feel the most need to explain or... validate. Authenticate? Fanwank?

I can't talk for other fans who write fanfiction, but, to me, it's a desire to "fix" the unjustice toward beloved heroes. And, at the same time, I'm incredibly grateful to Joss for creating this unjustice and triggering my urge to write.

[Sosa lola]

Yep. There's a reason there's more fanfiction written for Spike/Buffy than any other Buffyverse 'ship. Supporters have to make their own fun, 'cause the canon, not so helpful in that regard. ;)

Welcome to the forum, by the way. :hug:

I agree. It's also why Xander/Spike is a very popular ship as well. So hard to happen, more fun to explore and make it happen ;) They kinda have the same vibe as Spuffy with the snark and hate. :D Makes me happy I ship them, so many fics, lots of choices to read.

I'd say the most popular ships (fanfic wise) I saw were Spike/Buffy, Xander/Spike, Spike/Angel, and lately Xander/Giles (Wow, I never thought I'd find so much Xander/Giles fics out there. Fans are sweetly disturbing :D) Those are the ones I see so often, but I'm sure other fans are more aware of different pairings, like Buffy/Angel and Angel/Cordelia, which I haven't seen much of, but maybe that's because I'm locked in the Xander-centric fic zone, and thankfully for me, he is a popular character to write about. Lots of fun Xander goodness. ;)

[doubleshiny]

Most of the Spuffy fics that I've read are about taming the beast, and some even attempt the domesticating of Spike in order to set up their 'happy ending' where Buffy and Spike live in a commune and have adopted kids and a goat or something. The romance aspect of Spuffy is tough because it negates what we love about the characters, but there's something about our favourite ships which makes us want them to live happily ever after.

It's a dichotomy.

[missperoxide]

I think pairings get a bit dull if they're hammered out, I prefer the ones which don't make it. I was glad when Spike and Buffy got together because it was so very wrong, but where does it go from there? They weren't going to settle down and have tiny bleached blonde children, so it was a one way train to angst city in a carriage full of pain.

Yeah, but wouldn't those tiny bleach blonde half-vampires be just so cute :roll:

Sorry, but pfffft :)

The next time (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/065_summ.html) that the canon (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/082_summ.html) isn't "fun" (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/085_summ.html) for or kind (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/103_summ.html) to fans (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/transcripts/107_tran.html) of Buffy (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/108_summ.html)/Spike (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/109_summ.html) will be the first (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/113_summ.html) time that it (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/131_summ.html) hasn't been (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/133_summ.html) nice to Spuffy fans (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/134_summ.html) since people started (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/136_summ.html) to like (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/139_summ.html) that relationship (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/142_summ.html) at all (http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/summaries/144_summ.html).

More on-screen macking, sex, angst, and intense stares in the Spuffy lore than for any other 'ship. If one, as Spuffies do, dates the 'ship back to Season 4, it got half again to twice as much screen time as Buffy/Angel, and more exposure over the same time as Xander/Anya. No pity party for the Spuffy fans ;)I think there are several ways of looking where does Spuffy start. I think School Hard indeed is one way as Wolfie points out. You might also think it's S4. But I guess most canonically we can date it to S5. The ship does get attention as you pointed out, but at the same time it's most controversial one (and it hasn't got anything a la or even close to I Will Remember You. Something Blue while adorable is too S4 comic relief thing, I would have wanted to see alternate version of Buffy/Spike making it work in the context of (preferably) S6 or S7). So it does make fans to want to "fix" the unjustice as Moscow Watcher said, and hence all the fanfic.

[doubleshiny]

Yeah, but wouldn't those tiny bleach blonde half-vampires be just so cute :roll:
.

I feel a fan fic coming on....:lol:

[Moscow Watcher]

Most of the Spuffy fics that I've read are about taming the beast, and some even attempt the domesticating of Spike in order to set up their 'happy ending' where Buffy and Spike live in a commune and have adopted kids and a goat or something. The romance aspect of Spuffy is tough because it negates what we love about the characters, but there's something about our favourite ships which makes us want them to live happily ever after.

It's a dichotomy.
Good point.

I think this dichotomy reflects the overall dichotomy of Buffyverse. On one hand, it's a heroic adventure. On the other hand, it's a show about people and their relationships. And these relationships happen to be the strongest element of the show. I never saw people have wars over Buffyverse cosmogony but shipper wars occurred many times.

I noticed a very interesting thing: many diehard fans came to fandom from other sci-fi and fantasy fandoms. Back in 2002 there were many discussions in which fans referenced Babylon 5 and Star Trek. And, at the same time, there was a lot of fans who watched BtVS as a soap opera and applied corresponding standards to it.

[Enisy]

Most of the Spuffy fics that I've read are about taming the beast, and some even attempt the domesticating of Spike in order to set up their 'happy ending' where Buffy and Spike live in a commune and have adopted kids and a goat or something. The romance aspect of Spuffy is tough because it negates what we love about the characters, but there's something about our favourite ships which makes us want them to live happily ever after.

It's a dichotomy.

Many Spike/Buffy fanfics are like that (with varying degrees of success), but many others are... nnnnnnnot, in typical Jossverse fashion. ;) Some recs in the latter category (Merciless Angst):


Long stories:

Let's Get Lost (http://www.echonyc.com/%7Estax/Buffy/herself/letsgetlost.html) by Herself
She'd gone far far away from Sunnydale. From herself. Her name. Her calling. She didn't want any contact with the old life. Much less him. That pain-in-the-ass vampire. "Spike." She punched at the eyes floating before her; but he ducked and she pitched forward. He caught her before she fell face down in the filth. "What is this?" She wrenched herself free. "Since when do you help?" Set immediately post Season 2. [NC-17]

The Choice by Anaross
Is it so much to ask -- that Buffy just love him back? [PG]
Chapter 1 (http://anaross.livejournal.com/14350.html) | Chapter 2 (http://anaross.livejournal.com/15043.html) | Chapter 3 (http://anaross.livejournal.com/15262.html) | Chapter 4 (http://anaross.livejournal.com/15560.html)

The Passage of Memory (http://www.allaboutspike.com/fic.html?id=298) by Lara Dean-Brierley
The elusiveness of memory and the remnants of power; sacrifices made and traded, chances lost. Or, more prosaically: Spike searches the world for Buffy. Bleak. [NC-17]


One-shots:

34 Reasons I Never Called You (http://anaross.livejournal.com/14607.html) by Anaross
A list of excuses from Spike. [PG]

Touch (http://anaross.livejournal.com/79673.html) by Anaross
This is called "Touch." I don't know. What the heck. It's sort of Spaith, and sort of Spuffy, but not like that! [R]

Every December Sky (http://doyle-sb4.livejournal.com/221956.html) by Doyle
Apocalypse ficathon entry for ascian3 who wanted B/S and something desolate. Post-Not Fade Away but no spoilers for it that I can think of. [PG-13]

Nightfall Coming Soon (http://doyle-sb4.livejournal.com/332032.html) by Doyle
Spuffy Kinkathon entry for buffyx, who wanted an AU where Spike lost his soul in Season 7, at least a kiss, "make it hurt". I hope this is painful enough to please. AU from Lies My Parents Told Me. [PG-13]

Some Scenes from the Later Life of Two Heroes (http://www.echonyc.com/%7Estax/Buffy/herself/scenes.html) by Herself
"She was the same age as Xander, who had cleared ninety, and yet she was still twenty-odd. Came back wrong." References to past Spike/Xander, Buffy/Angel. [R]

Beneath (http://www.echonyc.com/%7Estax/Buffy/herself/beneath.html) by Herself
Spike has amnesia. Buffy learns he doesn't need to remember her to know her. Set in Season 6, roughly after the third or fourth time Buffy sleeps with Spike. Dark. [R]

Dwelling Ever (http://moodfic.livejournal.com/17585.html) by voleuse
She's in his blood, always. [NC-17]

Echoes (http://community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/220387.html) by Quinara
Spike pays his respects to Illyria. [PG]

Waiting to Exhale (http://biggrstaffbunch.livejournal.com/41816.html) by biggrstaffbunch
"She'll never know what could have been, that's the point. And she sort of hates them both all the more for it." Buffy doesn't know if she'll ever see Angel or Spike again, and the uncertainty is getting to her. [R]

Ketchup Blood (http://www.allaboutspike.com/fic.html?id=38) by Kalima
After sex, there's always breakfast at Denny's. [R]

the nerves pouring around in her like palace fire (http://www.allaboutspike.com/fic.html?id=434) by amerella
They tell her that she's the same as she's always been. [R]

the death agony of the butterfly (http://web.archive.org/web/20040520044730/http://allaboutspike.com/fic.html?id=439) by amerella
"Death is everywhere." "Do you mean me? And you?" [R]

For the Sleepwalkers (http://www.allaboutspike.com/fic.html?id=143) by Lara Dean-Brierley
A visit in the darkness, the surrender of sight, the gift of a lie. Buffy/Spike, twisted as always. [NC-17]

[Enisy]

Forgot to comment on these:

I think there are several ways of looking where does Spuffy start. I think School Hard indeed is one way as Wolfie points out.

Canonically, Season 2 is where it starts, if you take into account the retcon in Fool for Love (but I know some people don't).

I agree. It's also why Xander/Spike is a very popular ship as well. So hard to happen, more fun to explore and make it happen ;) They kinda have the same vibe as Spuffy with the snark and hate. :D Makes me happy I ship them, so many fics, lots of choices to read.

Oh yeah, Spike/Xander is insanely popular for many of the same reasons that Spike/Buffy is. And yes, Spike/Xander and Spike/Buffy and Spike/Angel have a very similar vibe, which is why 'shippers of one often also like the others. :)

[Sosa lola]

Some Scenes from the Later Life of Two Heroes (http://www.echonyc.com/%7Estax/Buffy/herself/scenes.html) by Herself
"She was the same age as Xander, who had cleared ninety, and yet she was still twenty-odd. Came back wrong." References to past Spike/Xander, Buffy/Angel. [R]


Ooooh this one is great. Though I'm kinda biased because I preferred the first two Spander prequels. :D

I don't think there's a one pattern theme that popular ships (such as Spuffy, Spander and Spangel) go for. There are lots of different ideas because you've got lots of writers, each one with their own style and perspective of characters.

[Enisy]

Ooooh this one is great. Though I'm kinda biased because I preferred the first two Spander prequels. :D

I love how she doesn't diminish either Spike/Xander or Angel/Buffy to get to the Spike/Buffy parts (if anything, it's Spike/Buffy that comes off lacking -- intentionally -- in comparison to the other two). And I love this line:

"Want to dance?"
She turned now to look at him for the first time. "My my."
"Never get tired of it, do you? Seein' me in evenin' clothes. How I devastate."
"Well, I can still count the number of times on my fingers. Sure, let's dance."
He forgot how slipping and small she was. In his mind she took up so much space.

[KingofCretins]

We've still got the fanfic recommendation thread on the fanfic forum :)

I have never really gotten 'shipping against orientation. I couldn't see caring about Xander with a guy anymore than I'd care about him with Satsu -- in each case, there's at least one party who you know isn't interested. It sort of goes with my preference of canon-compliant fic over AU.

[Enisy]

I have never really gotten 'shipping against orientation.

I've never really gotten it in my other fandoms, either, but Joss plays fast and loose with orientation, so his characters tend to be more flexible in that regard. I mean... Wolves at the Gate.

[sueworld]

We've still got the fanfic recommendation thread on the fanfic forum :)

I have never really gotten 'shipping against orientation. I couldn't see caring about Xander with a guy anymore than I'd care about him with Satsu -- in each case, there's at least one party who you know isn't interested. It sort of goes with my preference of canon-compliant fic over AU.

But the art is in a good writer taking the 'crumbs' that were thrown out in the show and running with them. Making the reader really believe that under certain circumstances a relationship could be possible.

Spander is a very popular pairing, and I believe more popular and widely read then 'het Xander'.

[KingofCretins]

Eh, the crumbs are more often than not as imaginary as the fic that's based on them. Things that are AU insofar as they fundamentally upend the characters' personalities are invalid on their face for me, not something a writer can or cannot convince me of. AU Fics such as Mabus' "Dead War" or other Buffy-as-vampire fic I've seen all get over because they have the hook of an event that alters the character's nature. AU slash just presupposes the characters are people different than who they are in canon, so they're just right out.

The fact that the slash is more popular says nothing about Xander and everything about fic -- the original "slash" was Kirk/Spock. It fits my overall theory of fanfic, it's there to either explain or rationalize the canon, or, in the case of the slash, to simply replace it in favor of a preferred vision with no regard to its relationship to the canon.

[sueworld]

Eh, the crumbs are more often than not as imaginary as the fic that's based on them. Things that are AU insofar as they fundamentally upend the characters' personalities are invalid on their face for me, not something a writer can or cannot convince me of. AU Fics such as Mabus' "Dead War" or other Buffy-as-vampire fic I've seen all get over because they have the hook of an event that alters the character's nature. AU slash just presupposes the characters are people different than who they are in canon, so they're just right out.

The fact that the slash is more popular says nothing about Xander and everything about fic -- the original "slash" was Kirk/Spock. It fits my overall theory of fanfic, it's there to either explain or rationalize the canon, or, in the case of the slash, to simply replace it in favor of a preferred vision with no regard to its relationship to the canon.

I happen to believe you're rather oversimplifying matters, but as I know you're firmly 'anti slash' there's no point in debating it with you further eh?

Luckily there's loads of folks still out there busy writing away and creating wonderful fics that don't happen to share your negative view of what is, or is not viable ideas in fanfics, thank goodness. :D

[sherrilina]

A number of 'ships, both canon and non-canon, make such straightforward sense they don't require much thought as to why a couple would get together. It's the couples that get together against the grain that seem to draw the most fanfic attention. Ergo, Buffy/Spike. Ergo, Cordy/Angel.
Hmmm, I'm afraid I have to object to that--Cangel seems pretty straight-forward to me.....:p

Yeah, Cordy/Angel is my OTP of the overall Buffyverse, though within just BTVS my OTP is Spuffy.

However my slash OTP is Spangel! ;) Though I think Xangel(us) is pretty hot as well, given what we saw in season 2--especially the "white knight" scene in "Killed by Death." I have to disagree with your theory about slash KoC--IMO it's all about chemistry. I think James Marsters can have chemistry with anything (hell, he had chemistry with that freaking crypt door in "Dead Things!" :p), and that Nicholas Brendan also happens to have chemistry with lots of people, including DB and JM! And given that during the filming of the argument in "Normal Again" they actually kissed as a joke (to fulfill the "arguing hotly and getting into each other's faces and kissing" cliche seen with X/C), I don't think it was just slash-happy fans who saw a dynamic there....

[KingofCretins]

To me, it's a question about preferring fic about the actual characters, Joss's characters vs. fic about someone else's altered version of the character. It's not *just* slash about straight characters, that's just the most common example. I also don't get why people write fic about Buffy and Spike, but instead of being Buffy and Spike they are basically completely different characters meant to be visualized as looking like those actors, like Victorian schoolmarm and the fieldworker or something like that. Just don't get it. Especially in the context of discussing "OTP" -- the slash against orientation or the character revision means ignoring the "T".

Sherrilina, I meant Cordy/Angel as an example of a 'ship that fans in general had a harder time buying into and believing would or should get together.

[sueworld]

I also don't get why people write fic about Buffy and Spike, but instead of being Buffy and Spike they are basically completely different characters meant to be visualized as looking like those actors, like Victorian schoolmarm and the fieldworker or something like that. Just don't get it. Especially in the context of discussing "OTP" -- the slash against orientation or the character revision means ignoring the "T".

You've obviously read the wrong selection of fics then love. :roll: I've read fics by certain authors that have felt more true to the spirit of the characters then in some 'gen' fics.

In the case of the Vampires I see them being creatures of 'apatite' and that they seem natural candidates for being 'equal opportunity lovers' then some human characters.

Thing is all it takes is good writing a touch of imagination to see any pairing as viable. :heart:

[sherrilina]

Especially in the context of discussing "OTP" -- the slash against orientation or the character revision means ignoring the "T".

Ah well, in the case of Angel and Spike though we know that there was at least "that one time!" ;)

And when people say something is their "one true pair," I don't think they mean it's necessarily true in canon--its the one true pair for them, what they prefer above all, to hell with whether it happens or not. I know a lot of my OTPs for fandoms for instance never happen (Harry/Hermione, Jack/Elizabeth, etc).....but they're still my OTPs. The "T" is just another adjective (kind of a cheesy one even) to evoke how much you love a pairing.

[KingofCretins]

It doesn't take imagination as much as it takes a willingness to just change the character's personality to suit your preference for what the story should actually be. It's no less self-indulgent and untextual than a fic that presents Willow as secretly having been possessed by Jenny, and that's why she became so much more powerful. Yes, it takes imagination, but it also takes a certain degree of disregard for the characters as they have been defined in the canon.

[sueworld]

Yes, it takes imagination, but it also takes a certain degree of disregard for the characters as they have been defined in the canon

But in the great wide world of fanfic imagination is what can get you from 'A' to 'B'. If we all stuck rigidly to your very narrow rules then fanfom would be a very dull place indeed.

Also sexuality seems pretty fluid in the Jossverse for some characters eh? What with Buffy's sudden desire to sleep with another Slayer, to say nothing of Wilow's past. So sexuality doesn't seem quite as written in stone as you make out.

And not forgetting dear old subtext. "Has anyone here who hasn't slept together?" :roll:

[KingofCretins]

I'm not setting up "rules" for fandom. I said that *I* don't see the point of 'shipping against orientation, amongst other AU things. Nobody has bothered to offer an explanation of what that point is, you've just posted a few times to take potshots at me for not getting it, apparently.

The joke in "Beneath You" amuses me as a show of "subtext" since the moment is played without an ounce of sexual tension and quite a good deal of "ick".

[sueworld]

Oh dear King, lighten up won't you. :roll:

Fanfic like all forms of creative activities can be all things to all people, but I have to say with an attitude like yours I'm not surprised you don't understand the attraction. :lol: Most straight men don't get it either, so you're not on your own in that at least. :D

I can't offer anything to back up my case because I haven't got all night to post up links to various slash authors that I know you won't bother to read anyway. :roll:

Suffice to say slash is extremely popular amongst a large swath of the female section of fandom and long may that continue. :hug:

[XavierZane]

C'mon, Sue, babe, all you have to do is offer your opinion. You seem to have plenty of those! :lol:

Certain fanfiction is pure escapism, and is wonderful for that fact. Whether you want slash, all human fantasy, or het pairings that will never happen (Buffy/Connor is my personal favorite) the 'point' of fanfiction is to play with characters you love doing things they would never do as themselves. If fanfiction always stayed strictly within canon then...well, it would just be canon. We already have that.

That being said, my personal favorite type of fanfiction is that which keeps the characters and the 'verse withing canon parameters and through sheer good writing takes them to places that you never would have expected. M_McGregor is particularly good with this, and he's a Xander-centric writer who shifts between Buffy/Xander and Buffy/Faith. King, if you've never read him you should check him out.

[sueworld]

C'mon, Sue, babe, all you have to do is offer your opinion. You seem to have plenty of those!

Ain't that the truth! :roll::roll::roll:

Certain fanfiction is pure escapism, and is wonderful for that fact.

And a huge huzzah for that!! :D

The amount of pairings and ideas out there is just amazing. I love it that folks can play with the characters and can come up with such wonderful ideas and relationships even after all this time.

[Sosa lola]

I mean... Wolves at the Gate.

Sadly I think it's one sided. Xander doesn't seem to care much about Dracula. :(

Though I think Xangel(us) is pretty hot as well, given what we saw in season 2--especially the "white knight" scene in "Killed by Death."

Ooooh. Ooooh. Xander/Angelus is SO freaking amazing! It's dark and twisted and just plain wrong! Angelus being pissed about what happened in Killed by Death and wanting to show Xander his place.... guh!!

Is it wrong that I love reading fics about Xander being tortured and humiliated and in pain when he's my favorite character? :err:

I agree with Sue that some fics (het or slash) read more canon than some gen fics. It depends on the writer. If they're good, the fic will be, no matter what's pairing it is.

[KingofCretins]

Those are both perfect examples of imaginary subtext, actually. I mean, seriously, you're taking basically one of Xander's most badassed, courageous moments and redefining it as something so insignificant and trivial. He alpha-stared frakkin' Angelus, and instead of him being the hero of the moment, it was Secret Gay Lust? Ugh, feh, meh, and bah.

Sosa, in answer to your question... yeah, kinda :)

[vampmogs]

I don't really have a problem with slash myself. I could be very wrong but I don't think most slash writers honestly believe it's a possibility in a lot of the things they write? I just take it as them trying to have some fun.

I mean I've seen many het fics with Giles and Cordy shagging for example. When I was reading this I never got the impression that the writers were wanting us to believe that this was ever a possibility but more a "what if.." a Wishverse take on fanfiction.

There's fanfiction that works within the confines of what we've seen on the show, and fanfiction that's not. As long as it's written well and it's interesting I'll read it. But generally I'm not a big fan of fanfiction anyway.

[Wolfie Gilmore]

I don't really have a problem with slash myself. I could be very wrong but I don't think most slash writers honestly believe it's a possibility in a lot of the things they write? I just take it as them trying to have some fun.

I mean I've seen many het fics with Giles and Cordy shagging for example. When I was reading this I never got the impression that the writers were wanting us to believe that this was ever a possibility but more a "what if.." a Wishverse take on fanfiction.

There's fanfiction that works within the confines of what we've seen on the show, and fanfiction that's not. As long as it's written well and it's interesting I'll read it. But generally I'm not a big fan of fanfiction anyway.

As you say, ‘mogs, there are different approaches to slash/non canon pairings stuff (eg the Giles/Cordy eg you give).

There’s the “what if” approach, where you explore what two characters might be like if they got together, even though there’s not really much sense that they ever would in the show. I’ve never sensed even a flicker of sexual tension between Cordy and Giles, but I can imagine that it would be possible – if, say, Giles and Cordy met in LA in around season 3 of Angel, when she’s a woman not a girl any more, and the whole dynamic could change.

But then there’s the approach that looks at what’s on screen and teases out the implications of what’s already there – the “I took a step and there conclusions were” approach.

It’s a fictional universe that invites subtextual readings – Buffy’s comment to Xander about him sleeping with Spike, or Dru’s psychic reading of the romantic subtext in Spike’s Buffy’s obsession in the FFL flashbacks that someone mentioned - and even talks about subtext (“the subtext is rapidly becoming text”). The writers are already playing with the idea of sexual/romantic subtexts to ostensibly non sexual situations – Dracula’s “thrall” is very much a sexual scenario (“the thrall has gone out of our relationship”), as it is in many portrayals of Dracula… so, Dracula/Xander slash, say, is not at all surprising, and is even played up in the comics.

Fighting and sex are linked on screen time and time again – Spike and Buffy, Riley and Buffy (when they’re fighting and boinking in intercut scenes in season four, for example). So, it’s not a massive leap to read two characters fighting in a sexy way in the Buffyverse – it’s more of a small hop. :)

It could be the subtext in just one scene, combined with hints from the rest of the show, that kicks off, say, a boy/boy slash fic. So, take Spike and Xander (a popular example it seems :)). We’ve had various comments from Xander that could denote sexual flexibility, plus the extra canonical stuff about Joss wondering whether to make Xander or Willow gay, that probably adds a bit of an extra kick, though can’t really be used as “evidence” per se…but I’m sure it makes people feel more inclined to be on the side that Xander might “gay [himself] up” at some point, or for at least some guy.

Spike, we know from canon has had at least one male/male encounter (with Angel), plus, vampire, so they seem to be a bit more laissez faire about sexuality (Dru and Darla’s slightly Sapphic bathing/drowning games, for example). There’s no real reason a vampire should have a particular orientation…other than EVIL. Though the personalities of the humans they once were certainly inform who they become, sexually speaking, there often seems to be quite a shift, and there’s the possibility of vamping kick starting things that had been repressed – vamp!Willow is “kinda gay” well before Willow herself realises she’s into girls…though, interestingly, more bi than gay.

So, anyway, if you took a scene with Xander and Spike that had angry tension between them, given the sexiness of fighting in the Buffyverse, and the potential for both characters to be sexually flexible (and evidence for that on Spike’s part), the idea of them getting it on under certain circumstances (the classic “trapped in a lift” type scenario where they’re stuck with one another and get so angry that they have to release the tension some way) doesn’t seem all that outlandish. Sure, it didn’t happen on screen. But it doesn’t seem impossible to me at all – any more than any unlikely pairing that ends up happening as a one-off (or several-off), such as Buffy and Satsu, or Anya and Spike – who get it on out of shared misery much more than any long-hidden attraction…not all sex is about having fancied someone for ages, or even powerfully fancying them in that moment. Sometimes it’s about other emotions, sometimes it’s about wanting some sex, never mind where from.

To sum up – slash can be perfectly plausible as an extension of the text, imo, though perhaps the amount of slash fiction outnumbers the plausible occasions for slash that the show offers up. But, of course, not all slash is about what’s suggested by canon anyway (the “what if” school of thought doesn’t require it to be plausible, more…what would it be like if it DID happen, and how might it happen).

[doubleshiny]

the original "slash" was Kirk/Spock.

And I suspect it'll have a resurgence after the Star Trek prequel next year :D

I like the weird and less used pairings on fan fic, they appeal to that 'what if?' side of the storyteller. And I find it interesting to see what other people understand as 'crumbs' - I noticed a few Anya/Andrew fics showing up after Season 7 because some people thought that relationship was a goer.

With Spuffy the subtext became text quite quickly so a lot of the 'what ifs' became redundant.

[sueworld]

So, anyway, if you took a scene with Xander and Spike that had angry tension between them, given the sexiness of fighting in the Buffyverse, and the potential for both characters to be sexually flexible (and evidence for that on Spike’s part), the idea of them getting it on under certain circumstances (the classic “trapped in a lift” type scenario where they’re stuck with one another and get so angry that they have to release the tension some way) doesn’t seem all that outlandish. Sure, it didn’t happen on screen. But it doesn’t seem impossible to me at all – any more than any unlikely pairing that ends up happening as a one-off (or several-off), such as Buffy and Satsu, or Anya and Spike – who get it on out of shared misery much more than any long-hidden attraction…not all sex is about having fancied someone for ages, or even powerfully fancying them in that moment. Sometimes it’s about other emotions, sometimes it’s about wanting some sex, never mind where from.


Exactly. As per you've managed to explain that so much better then I did.:lol:

And I suspect it'll have a resurgence after the Star Trek prequel next year

Oh lord, I'd forgotten about that! :roll:

At the end of the day it all boils down to the readers indiviual likes and dislikes when it comes to what type of fanfiction they prefer and what paiing 'does it' for them.

I like some of the less well 'used' slash pairings myself, such as Wesley/Spike, Giles/Wesley and Lindsey/Wesley, and not forgetting Spike/Riley (yes there are some stories out there!). Pairings that often lend themselves nicely to the more 'darker' kind of story.

[Moscow Watcher]

http://whedonesque.com/comments/9323

JOSS WHEDON:
In my world, heroes bugger each other senseless. Not all of them, but more than you'd think, and probably not who you're thinking.


:kiss:

[sueworld]

*g* I'd forgotten about that quote. Nice one!

I'm sure that poster must have been surprised to get that answer to her comments. :roll:

[doubleshiny]

That's why I love Joss's world :lol:

I remember a 'stuck in a lift' Spander fic which had a dynamite line from Buffy - just as Spike and Xander were 'rescued' she said "What do I have to do to keep you two out of that broken elevator?" :roll:

[sueworld]

Oh I know. There's some crackingly funny slash fics out there, may of them being Spander ones for some reason. Maybe because of Xanders character it lends itself to humour better, I just don't know. :roll:

[Sosa lola]

Yay for the Spander banner, Sue :D I gotta change mine. Been using it for so long. I remember the old days when I used to change mine all the time. :lol:

I mean, seriously, you're taking basically one of Xander's most badassed, courageous moments and redefining it as something so insignificant and trivial. He alpha-stared frakkin' Angelus, and instead of him being the hero of the moment, it was Secret Gay Lust? Ugh, feh, meh, and bah.

Why do you see it this way? The fun here is that because Xander had humiliated Angelus in the hospital, Angelus would want to humiliate him back. It'll put extra points with hurting Buffy. Plus, Angelus will show Xander that little human boys are no match for dangerous psychopath vampires. It's perfectly in character for Angelus, as for Xander, well, he'll be captured and about to get raped (just like what happened in Teacher's Pet.) tortured and humiliated because of his courageous moment in the hospital. So the fic isn't really far-fetched. We all know Angelus is more about breaking characters emotionally than physically, it's more fun to him (and me :redshy: ), unlike Spike who's more about "kill and never look back".

[Moscow Watcher]

I ship a het couple, but I adore slash subtext on both BtVS and AtS. Here are some of my oldies...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Avatars2/tongues3.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Avatars2/bondage.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Avatars2/sex2.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Avatars2/loveis.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Avatars2/show_way.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Avatars2/gay2.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Avatars2/back_off.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Avatars2/why-we-fight.gif

And I did them purely for fun. Because the scenes beg for slashy interpretation.

[lara]

My OTP is Buffy/Spike, always has been and I don't think that'll change in the near future.

But if I don't get to see Spike and Buffy together (in cannon S8 or 9 or whatever), I wouldn't have a problem with Buffy/Xander, for me a good friendship may lead to a wonderful romantic interest :)

I read a lot of fanfiction about it, some stories really amazing ones, so I don't know if I could pic a favorite. A recent one though is "Only time will tell" by damperspoon on LJ.

[sherrilina]

Well said Wolfie! :) I think you explain it perfectly....
Those are both perfect examples of imaginary subtext, actually. I mean, seriously, you're taking basically one of Xander's most badassed, courageous moments and redefining it as something so insignificant and trivial. He alpha-stared frakkin' Angelus, and instead of him being the hero of the moment, it was Secret Gay Lust? Ugh, feh, meh, and bah.
We're not saying that--just that there was a lot of chemistry between them in that scene (kind of like there was chemistry between Spike and the freaking cellar door in that one scene), especially in how close they got--I think Moscow's hilarious "Love is" avatar showcases at leats part of it very well! ;) Another great scene is when Angel grabs Xander and pulls him through the window in BBB and says that line about feeling "very close" to him right then--how can you not see that as humorous subtext put in by the writers for laughs?

Then add Larry's confusion about Xander being gay in that first werewolf epp, and I can definitely see where the slashy subtext comes from....

[KingofCretins]

The chemistry itself is the thing that is imaginary. Homosexual chemistry between two heterosexual characters, played by two heterosexual actors, neither of which is being given notes or scripted to be provide homosexual overtones is, by definition, imaginary. It's a psychosexual rorshach.

The "Love Is" avatar only proves my point -- it only reads that way when you pull a seconds-long clip out of its original context, in which the flowers were of course nothing to do with Xander. In which the dialogue was all very much about sex with Buffy. It's nearly maddening to read. It's as credible and objective as the Buffy/Dawn "sexual subtext" in "Tabula Rasa". I mean, they stood within a foot of each other and made eye contact, they must have lesbian overtones :)

[sueworld]

The chemistry itself is the thing that is imaginary. Homosexual chemistry between two heterosexual characters, played by two heterosexual actors, neither of which is being given notes or scripted to be provide homosexual overtones is, by definition, imaginary. It's a psychosexual rorshach.


It's fiction love. I hate to break this to you but vampires don't really exist either. :D Doesn't stop people writing about them though. I'm sure Xanders character is more then 'flexible' enough to accommodate all sorts of partnerships and story ideas.

Maybe you don't want to read fiction that 'plays' with these characters but luckily others do. :D

[KingofCretins]

Which, if you'll recall, was all I ever said in the first place -- that I didn't see the point of it. You say "play", I say "rewrite". That which you're "sure of" is not supportable in the text anywhere, and is again just proof of my point. The slash *is* rewriting/changing the character, not developing what existed. I personally don't see the appeal. Why you're repeating my own initial point back to me as if it's something I haven't realized, I don't know. I know it appeals to some fans. I just can't figure why.

*goes off to write fic about Satsu and Kennedy and Willow having sex with every straight male character* -- I'm sure those characters are 'flexible' enough to accommodate it ;)

[sherrilina]

It's nearly maddening to read. It's as credible and objective as the Buffy/Dawn "sexual subtext" in "Tabula Rasa". I mean, they stood within a foot of each other and made eye contact, they must have lesbian overtones :)
Not at all--merely standing in front of each other doesn't make sexual subtext--it's more than that. Like putting one's face quite close to another's and speaking in a low voice, etc.

And I still haven't heard how Angelus's "I want to tell you just how close I feel to you right now" line wasn't meant to be humorous sexual subtext....or about why Nicholas Brendon and James Marsters actually kissed for a sec in jest while filming the heated argument between them in the graveyard in Normal Again (or why Aly says, "They're going to kiss!") if that kind of subtext is all completely something in the imagination of out-of-touch fans--I think when they actors themselves can see it, it's not as outlandish and out of nowhere as you're making it out to be.

I think this outtake I mentioned shows perfectly what Wolfie was trying to explain about how it's only a small hop from fighting to making out in the Buffyverse--though we already saw that with X/C in spades. It's a stereotype, which as we see here can be applied to both het and slash couples:

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppiy6Kzya_U

[sueworld]

I say "rewrite". That which you're "sure of" is not supportable in the text anywhere,

Does it have to be? Is your imagination so limited that you couldn't think of a way of writing certain characters together if you wanted to?

The slash *is* rewriting/changing the character, not developing what existed.

So how does that play out with the whole Buffy sleeping with a women in season 8?

It appears that joss doesn't seem to share you rigid ideas about the sexuality of his characters quite as much as you do. Would you be quite as happy if it had been Xander seen 'experimenting' with another man, rather then two women?

I'm sure those characters are 'flexible' enough to accommodate it

Well considering Wilow's back history she well may be. She did used to sleep with Oz, eh?

[KingofCretins]

When Joss writes the characters as doing something, it *becomes* the character. When fans write against the text, they are rewriting the character. It's just not a meaningful comparison.

Sue, if you could see past your next insulting comment, you'd realize I'm not talking about the "imagination" of the writer -- I'm talking about the lack of connection between what they are imagining and what is actually the Buffy canon. I have never liked "AU" fic. I like fic that could be the stories between the episodes or between the comics. And slash of straight characters, or writing het for gay characters, is "AU" by definition.

[sueworld]

Sue, if you could see past your next insulting comment,

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....:roll::roll::roll:

And slash of straight characters, or writing het for gay characters, is "AU" by definition.

And? You have a problem with that? Why? It's a fanfic with as much credibility as any other fan written idea.

Lest face it any ficthat isn't written by the 'man himself' or authorized by him is by definition an AU.

When Joss writes the characters as doing something, it *becomes* the character. When fans write against the text, they are rewriting the character. It's just not a meaningful comparison.


Yes it is. What I'm saying is that Joss can see potential in characters that you seem unable to.

[KingofCretins]

We've still got the fanfic recommendation thread on the fanfic forum :)

I have never really gotten 'shipping against orientation. I couldn't see caring about Xander with a guy anymore than I'd care about him with Satsu -- in each case, there's at least one party who you know isn't interested. It sort of goes with my preference of canon-compliant fic over AU.

I figured I'd include my first post on the subject so that perhaps we could suss out exactly what it is you're arguing with me about. I already said it was my preference, my opinion, not a "rule", not something I'm dictating to anyone else. What on Earth are you trying to convince me of, other than what I already said?

And? You have a problem with that? Why? It's a fanfic with as much credibility as any other fan written idea.

Lest face it any ficthat isn't written by the 'man himself' or authorized by him is by definition an AU.

In one sense, yes, but there are two basic schools of fanfic. One is "canon friendly", if you will... stories that Joss could theoretically just decide to say really happened, because they don't require any retcon or explanation in the canon, they just happened when we weren't watching. Then there is the AU fic -- the things that ignore or change parts of the characters or setting to tell the story. Everything from "Set in Season 6, but Buffy never jumped and Glory was a vampire" to your basic slash about straight characters fits in that category.

[sueworld]

I lack imagination... can't see potential in characters... no, no insults there at all.

Well forgive me for misreading the signs, but considering that you say you can't see potential in what we're all talking about here then I think then yes, your imagination isn't as great as some other writers out there.

In one sense, yes, but there are two basic schools of fanfic. One is "canon friendly", if you will... stories that Joss could theoretically just decide to say really happened, because they don't require any retcon or explanation in the canon, they just happened when we weren't watching. Then there is the AU fic -- the things that ignore or change parts of the characters or setting to tell the story. Everything from "Set in Season 6, but Buffy never jumped and Glory was a vampire" to your basic slash about straight characters fits in that category.

As well as any story written by a fan, 'straight' or not. :D

[KingofCretins]

You are just fantastic at ignoring anything I post. The first sentence there was "in a sense, yes." Already acknowledged the idea that all fanfic is, yes, fanfic. We can file that under DUH. And then I went on to say that *within* fanfic, there are still stories that line up with the canon and stories that contradict it. I don't like the stories that contradict it. The "Season 7 but Tara didn't get shot" fic, and the slash fic both fit exclusively in that subcategory.

[sueworld]

Then I'm sure you'll continue to have many hours of happy reading in your corner of the fandom love, while we'll be carrying on enjoying ours. :hug:

Considering that Buffy is considered in most quarters to be a 'dead show' (sorry many out there still do ignore the comics) that it's refreshing to note that theres still so many great fan writers out there continuing to produce such wonderful works. :D

[KingofCretins]

Then I'm sure you'll continue to have many hours of happy reading in your corner of the fandom love, while we'll be carrying on enjoying ours. :hug:

Considering that Buffy is considered in most quarters to be a 'dead show' (sorry many out there still do ignore the comics) that it's refreshing to note that theres still so many great fan writers out there continuing to produce such wonderful works. :D

So, really, the last two full pages of this thread only exist so you could insult me for my opinion. You didn't misunderstand my opinion, you never had any opinion to share on why I *should* enjoy AU fic, you just wanted to make sure I knew that I have no imagination and am a poor writer because I don't read slash about straight characters. Stay classy, San Diego :)

[sueworld]

Oh do get a grip there's a good chap. :p

You and I both know you have no intention of listening to any argument that I might come up with to do with this subject. You've never done so in the past, so I can't see you doing that now, do you? :roll:

Also it would involve me having to post links to loads of various slashfics that I feel are great examples of their type that I know you wouldn't even bother to read and I haven't got all night to do that I'm afraid.

So if you feel you've wasted you're time on here, then I'm sorry, but thats all I can say realy. :xd

[XavierZane]

Man, you two are like an old married couple. :roll:

KoC: Uh, Sue, dear, you left the Folgers can beside the coffeepot again. How many times have I told you that it
goes in the cabinet above the coffeepot.
Sue: Why put it away when we're just going to use it again later in the day and again tomorrow?
KoC: Because that's where it goes!
Sue: Then put it there.
KoC: I want you to learn to put it away when you use it.

...

*30 minutes later*
KoC: ...you are just fantastic at ignoring anything i say!
Sue: Well, forgive me, but I just don't see...!

...

*2 hours later*
KoC: FINE! <storms off>
Sue: FINE! <storms off>

[sueworld]

*2 hours later*
KoC: FINE! <storms off>
Sue: FINE! <storms off>

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Well thats what happens when you debate such a wonderfully daft subject, that is still so close to some peoples hearts. :D

[Enisy]

Whoa, back off. I've got dibs on King. *clings to his arm* :p

[sueworld]

Whoa, back off. I've got dibs on King. *clings to his arm* :p

Oh lord, by all means love you can have him! :roll:

I'm sure I can find something else to cling to. *grabs Spike by the elbow and runs off with him*

Anyhoo, to be on topic I have many OTP's, many of which I just love to read time after time. :lol:

[KingofCretins]

Seeing that talking about the "T" aspect set off two pages of how much I suck, I hate to see what might happen if I point out what the "O" stands for in the expression.

Thanks Enisy. I might repay you with some more of my crappy fic that's Spuffy friendly :)

[sueworld]

Seeing that talking about the "T" aspect set off two pages of how much I suck, I hate to see what might happen if I point out what the "O" stands for in the expression.


Luckily I have no idea what you're going on about. :roll:

[XavierZane]

Top 5 OTPs (Various Fandoms)

5. Seth/Summer (The OC)
4. Kara/Leoben (BSG)
3. Buffy/Xander (Uh...guess)
2. Batman/Catwoman (DCU)
1. Lily/Severus (Harry Potter)

Honorable Mentions: Logan/Veronica, Lois/Clark, Ron/Hermione, Buffy/Spike, Wes/Lilah, Harry/Luna, Severus/Bellatrix, Batman/Wonder Woman

[Enisy]

My non-Buffy OTPs will have people running for the hills. ;) Especially in Harry Potter.

[XavierZane]

Harry/Giant Squid?
Hermione/Ron's Broom?

Horrifyingly, I've actually written about one of those. :err:

[sueworld]

Strangely enough I don't really ship comic book characters, but I can see the Batman/Catwomen appeal. :roll:

Wes/Lilah,

Oh I love that pairing. If only she had been brought back for season 5. :heart:

[KingofCretins]

Outside the Buffyverse, I'd say Logan/Veronica, Mal/Inara, Jack/Kate, House/Cuddy, Peter/Elle.

Strictly on Buffy, it's Buffy/Xander. Strictly on Angel, it's... hmm, can't really think of one. Harmony/Spike?

[sueworld]

My non-Buffy OTPs will have people running for the hills. ;) Especially in Harry Potter.


Oh go on. spill! :hf2:

Harry/Giant Squid?
Hermione/Ron's Broom?

Horrifyingly, I've actually written about one of those.

Oh good lord, which one? :D

[XavierZane]

I'd still like to see Lilah brought back in After the Fall. There's definitely opportunity to do so.

Edit:

Well...you asked.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2452674/1/For_the_love_of_God_dont_read_this
It's in the third chapter, but you should read the first two as well. Not because you need to to make sense of the third, but because. Just because. Or you could listen to the title, which would probably be better for everyone involved.

[Enisy]

1) Spike/Buffy (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
2) Tom/Ginny (Harry Potter)
3) Erik/Christine (Phantom of the Opera)
4) Logan/Veronica (Veronica Mars)
5) Wesley/Illyria (Angel the Series)

...hey, where did everyone go? :p And I haven't even told you my Pirates of the Caribbean and Battlestar Galactica and Lost and Heroes OTPs yet...!

[XavierZane]

Hey, nothing wrong with a little Tom/Ginny. Have you ever been to the FictionAlley ship boards? There's a good Tom/Ginny support thread there:

http://forums.fictionalley.org/park/showthread.php?threadid=140213&highlight=Tom%2FGinny

[sueworld]

Oh god, I feel so deprived as I really don't ship anyone other then Buffyverse characters. :(

The last time I shipped anyone else it was Kirk/Spock! :roll:

[Enisy]

Hey, nothing wrong with a little Tom/Ginny. Have you ever been to the FictionAlley ship boards? There's a good Tom/Ginny support thread there:

http://forums.fictionalley.org/park/showthread.php?threadid=140213&highlight=Tom%2FGinny

Oh, I used to be a VIP at FictionAlley, but I haven't been there in over a year. I still have a disturbing amount of fondness for the 'ship, though. I blame it all on Arabella (http://www.sugarquill.net/read.php?storyid=1026&chapno=1).

[XavierZane]

Oh, man...Arabella. That's brings back old skool memories of being fourteen or fifteen during the famine years between Book 4 and Book 5. HQoW and Ron's Rants...

*deep breath*
I've grown as a person. I've grown as a person. I won't read the entire HQoW series again, especially since I know for a fact this time that it's never going to be finished.
*deep breath*

Damn you, Enisy! :lol:
Next you'll be sending me a link to CassandraClaire's Draco Trilogy. The only story that was ever good enough to make me read Harry/Hermione. Not that you could, because it's been taken off the internet. Not that I need it, because I have the entire thing on my computer.

[Enisy]

I can always upload it to my server and link it... *waggles eyebrows*

Now that I've watched Buffy I can finally understand why people called Cassandra's Draco, and Fanon!Draco in general, "Spike with a wand". (Not that it matters, since I read that for the Tom/Ginny scenes, not the other stuff. ;))

[Sosa lola]

I honestly don't think I have OTP in another fandom. BtVS is the only fandom I'm obsessed with. I love other shows but I'm not obsessed with their characters.

[XavierZane]

Lol, I never heard that, but I can definitely see it.

Why was that story taken off the internet anyway? There was a big scandal, I remember, but I never found out the whole story. Do you know?

Harry Potter used to be the only fandom I participated in. I was there from very early on (I remember when there were less than 2000 HP stories on ff.net :lol:), I used to read dozens of fics, but now I just read a couple of good Lily/Severus fics. It almost makes me sad. :cutecry:

[KingofCretins]

The only Tom I know is, like, evil and stuff in those stories *shrug*

You have a "Heroes" OTP, Enisy? Share. It's not an easy show to get 'shippy about, I think.

I read some Xander/Faith fic again, and suddenly that's creeping back up toward it's nearly-equal-to-Buffy/Xander status with me. People come up with great stories for them.

[sherrilina]

Seeing that talking about the "T" aspect set off two pages of how much I suck, I hate to see what might happen if I point out what the "O" stands for in the expression.

*snorts* Good one.....:xd

1) Spike/Buffy (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
2) Tom/Ginny (Harry Potter)
3) Erik/Christine (Phantom of the Opera)
4) Logan/Veronica (Veronica Mars)
5) Wesley/Illyria (Angel the Series)

...hey, where did everyone go? :p And I haven't even told you my Pirates of the Caribbean and Battlestar Galactica and Lost and Heroes OTPs yet...!
Ooh, please tell me the POTC one is Jack/Elizabeth? ;)

And there's nothing wrong with some AU T/G, I'm a fan of them myself! ;) Very dark and twisted and so wrong it's right! :p

Hey, nothing wrong with a little Tom/Ginny. Have you ever been to the FictionAlley ship boards? There's a good Tom/Ginny support thread there:

http://forums.fictionalley.org/park/showthread.php?threadid=140213&highlight=Tom%2FGinny
Oh, I used to be a VIP at FictionAlley, but I haven't been there in over a year. I still have a disturbing amount of fondness for the 'ship, though. I blame it all on Arabella (http://www.sugarquill.net/read.php?storyid=1026&chapno=1).
Really? What was your name there? I am Sherrilina there as well, though I haven't been posting there in a while....we should both go back and post in the T/G thread! ;)

My het OTPs, in no particular order:

Angel/Cordy (Buffyverse)
Logan/Veronica (Veronica Mars)
Jacob/Bella (Twilight Saga)
Harry/Hermione (Harry Potter)
Jake/Cassie (Animorphs)
Artemis/Holly (Artemis Fowl)
Jack/Elizabeth (POTC)
Mal/Inara (Firefly)
Booth/Brennan (Bones)
Chuck/Blair (Gossip Girl)
Marisa/Asriel (His Dark Materials Trilogy)

I don't think I could rank them, since I often find myself particularly loving and obsessing over one or the other at different times, depending on the say/circumstances--for example right now I'm on a Marisa/Asriel kick (hence the temporary banner set change), around the release of breaking dawn I was on a Jacob/Bella kick, when the latest AF book came out Artemis/Holly occupied all my shipping thoughts, etc. I don't think I have one overall OTP that trumps all, I just love too many ships in too many series too much! :p (And most of them are totally doomed, which is kind of depressing!)

Oh, and my slash OTPs: :angelnot:

James/Sirius (HP)
Spike/Angel (Buffyverse)

[XavierZane]

The only Tom I know is, like, evil and stuff in those stories *shrug*

There's always Tom the Barman!

You have a "Heroes" OTP, Enisy? Share. It's not an easy show to get 'shippy about, I think.

Yeah, I can't really think of any people I ship in Heroes. I liked Claire/Zach early on, but that got Jossed. I'm intrigued by Hiro/Daphne, but we'll see if anything comes of that.

I read some Xander/Faith fic again, and suddenly that's creeping back up toward it's nearly-equal-to-Buffy/Xander status with me. People come up with great stories for them.

Five words: I Am What I Am by M_McGregor
Well, eight words.

[Enisy]

Why was that story taken off the internet anyway? There was a big scandal, I remember, but I never found out the whole story. Do you know?

Plagiarism. And not just the quotes from Buffy and other shows (I distinctly remember facepalming when I first heard Buffy's "And the joke is, he loved me. I mean, in his own twisted way, he really did care for me..." since Cassandra had snagged that exact line for a Tom/Ginny/Draco scene of hers). She also copied whole paragraphs from published books.

Harry Potter used to be the only fandom I participated in. I was there from very early on (I remember when there were less than 2000 HP stories on ff.net :lol:), I used to read dozens of fics, but now I just read a couple of good Lily/Severus fics. It almost makes me sad. :cutecry:

I'm really out of the loop when it comes to the Harry Potter fandom. Didn't feel like bothering with it anymore after that epilogue and Rowling's subsequent interviews.

The only Tom I know is, like, evil and stuff in those stories *shrug*

So was Spike. ;) Seriously now, I won't even try to defend it; it's a crack 'ship. I just find a certain appeal in a whole canonical year of fill-in-the-blanks, and all the darkfic derived from it.

You have a "Heroes" OTP, Enisy? Share. It's not an easy show to get 'shippy about, I think.

"OTP" is a heavy term, but I do like the idea of Peter/Claire, so long as they de-incest-ify them.

Ooh, please tell me the POTC one is Jack/Elizabeth?

Norrington/Elizabeth > Jack/Elizabeth > Will/Elizabeth. :)

And there's nothing wrong with some AU T/G, I'm a fan of them myself! ;) Very dark and twisted and so wrong it's right! :p

Spuffy, Sparrabeth, Tom/Ginny, LoVe... I think I like you. ;)

Really? What was your name there? I am Sherrilina there as well, though I haven't been posting there in a while....we should both go back and post in the T/G thread! ;)

LOL, can't say. People are looking for me all over the place. There may have been "Wanted" posters. ;) If I ever go back there, I'll have to create a new account.

[sueworld]

Norrington/Elizabeth > Jack/Elizabeth > Will/Elizabeth

I'd ship Jack/Will if the latter didn't make cardboard look interesting. :D

It seems that I haven't shipped anybody new for ages.

[Enisy]

Oh, I forgot about that one. Then it's:

Norrington/Elizabeth > Jack/Elizabeth > Jack/Will > Will/Elizabeth

But yeah, Will is the PotC canon's Chairman of Boring.

[sherrilina]

The only Tom I know is, like, evil and stuff in those stories *shrug*
Indeed--that's where the "dark and twisted and wrong" part comes in! ;) But he can be charming, as we see in the second book when he provided a friendly and patient ear for Ginny's little woes, so that she (to quote) "simply loved him." There's still so much we don't know about her feelings, etc. I'm not saying it should be canon, but it's interesting to think about and imagine (because Ginny has her own dark side IMO, and shares some traits with Tom like ambition, being quick to hex others, thinking dark magic can be okay depending on the circumstance, etc).

I'm really out of the loop when it comes to the Harry Potter fandom. Didn't feel like bothering with it anymore after that epilogue and Rowling's subsequent interviews.
Lol, like her fabulous post-book interviews leave much room for anything! :rolleyes:

So was Spike. ;) Seriously now, I won't even try to defend it; it's a crack 'ship. I just find a certain appeal in a whole canonical year of fill-in-the-blanks, and all the darkfic derived from it.
Exactly! :)

Norrington/Elizabeth > Jack/Elizabeth > Will/Elizabeth. :)
Yeah, I never got the N/E think until he got really hot and rugged in the second movie.....I'm glad they gave them at least one kiss in the third one! I prefer J/E, but N/E is better than W/E! :p

Spuffy, Sparrabeth, Tom/Ginny, LoVe... I think I like you. ;)
Thanks--I think I like you too! :D

I made a T/G vid once, if you're interested: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=bti207YSxSk

LOL, can't say. People are looking for me all over the place. There may have been "Wanted" posters. ;) If I ever go back there, I'll have to create a new account.
Oh come now, it can't be all that bad! :p

[MyPet]

To me, it's a question about preferring fic about the actual characters, Joss's characters vs. fic about someone else's altered version of the character. It's not *just* slash about straight characters, that's just the most common example. I also don't get why people write fic about Buffy and Spike, but instead of being Buffy and Spike they are basically completely different characters meant to be visualized as looking like those actors, like Victorian schoolmarm and the fieldworker or something like that. Just don't get it. Especially in the context of discussing "OTP" -- the slash against orientation or the character revision means ignoring the "T".



I'm with you. I always pass those over; if the characters aren't a slayer and a vampire, they're not the same characters - to me. Exceptions can be if some kind of spell is integrated into the plot explaining the scenario, but otherwise... :err: If it's non-canon, it feels to me as if the writer is playing with two attractive actors, and not the two (or three, heh) characters.

So, my OTP is Buffy/Spike. I have to have two characters who are in fundamental conflict in some way - if there are no angsty feelings/obstacles to the 'ship and the characters don't have to hide the pairing at first or fight some kind of basic animosity for each other on some level, it bores me.

Non-Whedonverse, I liked X-Files Mulder/Scully and occasionally Skinner/Scully (I did write one of those with a cattle mutilation backstory :lol:), but by the same token, nothing where they're married/parents/other people. Just don't get the point of that, personally. But different strokes for different folks.

[XavierZane]

...hey, where did everyone go? :p And I haven't even told you my Pirates of the Caribbean and Battlestar Galactica and Lost and Heroes OTPs yet...!

If you're not a Kara/Leoben shipper I'll eat my hat. :lol:

[Wolfie Gilmore]

More Jossverse....

Lilah/Wesley
Dru/Spike


OTPs in other shows...

Master/Doctor
John Smith/Joan (both dr who)
Barney/Robin (HIMYM)
Wilson/House (House)
G'kar/Londo (Babylon 5)

Can I have an unrequited love OTP? Cos Lennier > Delenn on B5 would definitely be up there.

Ivanova/Talia Winters (B5)
Dale Cooper/coffee...but also caroline ;) (Twin Peaks)
Bones/Booth (Bones)

[doubleshiny]

Elsewhere in the Jossverse, I'm a sucker for Wesley/Fred though it did get a bit saccharin towards the end, and by a bit, I mean full cavities.

In Firefly - Mal and Inara all the way.

Outside the Jossverse

Barney and Robin (HIMYM)

and now that they seem intent on making it a subtext, Mylar! (Heroes)

[sueworld]

I'm currently on a healthy dose of Wesley/Spike when it comes to fanfic and feel it's so sad that these two didn't have more scenes togther in the show. There's such reach contrasts there that could have been exploited.

[Bloodsucker]

Buffy/Angel
However, I sort of have the feeling that I might like Angel/Buffy/Spike as well. :D

[prayer]

My het OTPs, in no particular order:

Angel/Cordy (Buffyverse)
Harry/Hermione (Harry Potter)
Jack/Elizabeth (POTC)
Booth/Brennan (Bones)
Chuck/Blair (Gossip Girl)





:bounce:
And here I was thinking I was the only one loving those couple. It could had been me who wrote that. :D

[OkinawanSteel]

I'm seriously late to this discussion, but I'm always kind of intrigued by this topic. I don't really consider myself a shipper, in any of my fandoms. I mean, I do form opinions on pairings and obviously have those that I like/dislike more than others, but I've never really latched onto one and actively hold out hope that they get together or anything.

I think the Buffyverse is the most 'shippable' fandom I'm involved in, so I can name a ton of pairings I like (for example, Wes/Lilah, Angel/Darla, Spike/Dru). If I had an OTP, it would probably be Buffy/Faith. It's my favourite relationship in the verse, and there's always been an underlying romantic element to it. With fic, my mindset changes a little bit, because I have pairings I enjoy reading about that I'm not sure I'd ever want to see in the canon works. Angel/Faith is a good example of this. I love their relationship, don't think I'd ever want to see it turn romantic, but I'm more than happy to read other people have a go at portraying it that way.

When it comes to pairings, I tend to enjoy those that have some basis in the canon. Not that I only like ships that are presented as romances or have bucketloads of subtext in the original works, but I like the characters to have had some level of interaction. I have read, for example, Buffy/Gunn or Faith/Gwen stuff that I've found enjoyable, but I can't get into it anywhere near the level I can with ships whose characters have some history. That being said, one of the things I like about fic is that it sometimes presents you with pairings, or different approaches to pairings that you wouldn't have otherwise considered. I do actually have a pairing that I came to like pretty much just through fic (Faith/Dawn), so I guess there are exceptions.

As for other fandoms, I'm the same everywhere. Some I have pairings suppose you could say I almost ship (even on shows that aren't especially conducive to shipping, like L&O:SVU, bizarrely) and some shows I don't care about who's with who at all. I'm open to all types of pairings. Het ships are a given, every show has some. I'm a fan of more femslash pairings than I am slash pairings, my subtext-dar seems to work better with women than with men. :)

BSG is a show where I like quite a few ships. I love Roslin/Adama, and even though they annoy me individually at times, I like the Fighting Agathons together. I have a bit of a thing for Caprica/D'Anna (one of them should have just reached over and snapped Baltar's neck during the threesome, he was not needed.) I don't give a toss about any of Kara's pairings though, I didn't mind Starbuck/Apollo intially, but I don't really care for them now. She's really quite dykey too. Maybe she should've just copped off with Kat or Racetrack or something. ;)

I like both House/Cuddy and House/Wilson, nice to see them both mentioned upthread.

Any Oz fans here? Beecher/Keller is probably my favourite slash ship ever.

I must curb that rambling.


Giles/Faith

Really?

See, that's pretty much my two favourite Buffyverse characters right there, and yet I've never given much thought to them as a pairing, and even when I have, I still can't seem to form an opinion on it. I'm not sure whether I hate it or not, even just as an obscure fic pairing to attempt reading. Don't suppose you have any interesting recs for this, do you? Care to share on your thoughts on it as well?


Ivanova/Talia Winters (B5)


Dude! I haven't thought/heard/seen/read anything about those two in ages. Classic femslash. I feel nostalgic now. I wonder if any of their scenes are on YouTube...

[Kari]

OTPs in other shows...

Master/Doctor
John Smith/Joan (both dr who)

I have to say I don't like the doctor with anyone really... it's hard to compare companions because they're all so different... but the Master/Doctor is kind of funny...

I hated the John Smith episodes in the new series :( They depressed me.

I like Buffy/Angel. Cause they're cute heh (and i'm a total n00b)

Also Brennan/Booth = 4EVERLOVE XD

[Wolfie Gilmore]

[quote]I like both House/Cuddy and House/Wilson, nice to see them both mentioned upthread.

I like Cuddy/House too, I'd forgotten that one. Wilson/House is more emotional, but I think Cuddy/House has some interesting power play. I wish they'd do a bit more with Huntington's girl...shame to have a bi girl who doesn't actually do anything about it.




Dude! I haven't thought/heard/seen/read anything about those two in ages. Classic femslash. I feel nostalgic now. I wonder if any of their scenes are on YouTube...

They're an interesting example of something that seemed to be slash that was then canonised (like Spike/Angel...only much more so). Damn them for killing off Talia (effectively) almost straight away. Bloomin tragic lesbian TV cliches grumble.

They probably are on Youtube though.

I have to say I don't like the doctor with anyone really... it's hard to compare companions because they're all so different... but the Master/Doctor is kind of funny...

I only like him with people he basically *can't* be with properly. Master, obviously, because he's evil (and dead). Joan, because it's not the Doctor, and John Smith has to die.

I hated the John Smith episodes in the new series :( They depressed me.

I think the sadness is what I liked. Angstastic :)


Also Brennan/Booth = 4EVERLOVE XD

They're very sweet indeed.

[sueworld]

I think the sadness is what I liked. Angstastic

Oh I agree. It was the first time during it's run that for me at least 'New Who' showed what it could be capable of in the hands of the right writer. It was a story that (for a change) didn't seem like it was aimed at 6 year old with ADD, which luckily they built on in latter seasons.

Sadly being 'old as dust' I still have difficulty slashing him with anyone as I can't shake the image of William Hartnell outta my brain. For me to have him sexualized would be like reading about someone shagging someones granddad. :roll:

[OkinawanSteel]

They're an interesting example of something that seemed to be slash that was then canonised (like Spike/Angel...only much more so). Damn them for killing off Talia (effectively) almost straight away. Bloomin tragic lesbian TV cliches grumble.

I'm intrigued by that, I've seen it happen quite a few times in various fandoms. Slashy subtext that wasn't initially intented, but that the fans and/or writers pick up on. The latter begin to expressly include it in the text and readily admit to the fans that they play up, yet, they seem to stop short of really making it canon. I mean, I suppose a comment like Ivanova's "I think I loved Talia" essentially does make it canon, to this viewer at least, but it was never explored explicitly beyond that. Thinking of one of the most heavily implied relationships that started this way, Xena and Gabrielle (more tragic lesbians, sorry), even with widespread fan acceptance (I don't think there was anyone that didn't believe it was canon in the end) and TPTB having indulged the idea to the point where they actually had an entire episode based around a character trying to uncover the 'truth' about their relationship, they still neve