The early years vs the later years [Archive]

TrueVengeance

19-06-07, 07:30 AM

Which did you prefer? Highschool Buffy, or college Buffy?

For me, I'd have to say the later seasons. I have nothing against the earlier years (unless you count S2, ugh!), but I like alot of things better about the later years. Which I saw first.

I prefer the characters, storylines, and atmosphere. For example, I prefer Anya over Cordelia, Tara over Oz, and The Magic Box over the library. But, I do love Cordy and Oz, so its not like I don't like em'.

What are your thoughts?

Willow's Tara

19-06-07, 07:37 AM

I know what you mean, I like season 4-6 because of Tara;) But I liked plenty of the earlier years as well

SarahRegi

19-06-07, 07:53 AM

i prefer the high school years all the way, the first college year was too boring for me. after Buffy started to date Riley it began to get more interesting for me. i think it was the first few episodes of S4 that bored me.

vampmogs

19-06-07, 07:58 AM

It depends entirley on the mood I am in. Sometimes I like the later years better and other times I much prefer the early years. I definitily believe that Joss was in his prime in season two and three, there was constantly far better episodes and there seemed to be so much life and vibrancy in the show. I also really liked the high school gang, but again that depends on my mood. Sometimes Tara bugs me and wish for Oz again, other times I enjoy her quirks and like having her as part as the gang. There is something magical about the early years that the show never got back though, so I guess I prefer them over the later ones. Although in saying that I liked some of darker themes explored in later years, I just found some of the stories and plot more compelling in the high school seasons.

ykickamoocow

19-06-07, 08:18 AM

I perfer the high school years simly for the interaction between the core 4 characters. In later seasons we didnt get that kind of interaction which was disappointing to say to least.

Ravynnia

19-06-07, 11:59 AM

The high school seasons give us the A-B-C's of Buffy, and the themes are straightforward & primal; when I watch them it's like going back to a well-loved book, full of reassuring passages, even the darker parts.

Since Buffy was only in college for a third of the post-high school years, it's misleading to think of them as "college years", especially since the Sunnydale campus was never more than a backdrop, never had the homeyness of the high school campus or the Magic Box.

The latter seasons take us on beyond zebra & no matter how often I watch the eps, they surprise me in different ways, with different possibilities. There's a prickliness, a continual alienation throughout the stories that manifests itself in so many ways. Even tho' the Judge & Acathla & early Spike & Dru & such were romping around Sunnydale in the early seasons, the whole space of the later seasons is a bit more threatening and unsecured -- out of balance, the ship pitching about. I like being on that darkwater watching other passengers get seasick . . .

Ahm Shere

19-06-07, 01:31 PM

I prefered the later years, but after season 4. I hate season 4. But I loved Season 5, 6 and 7. Everything was right about them. The clothes, the hair, the make-up, the characters, the lighting, the storylines, the settings. It was perfect. The high school years bored me a little. I don't know why. (Maybe because of Bangel, and no Spuffy-ness? :lol:) And I LOVE Season 6...(Because of Spuffy-ness ;)). But it's not just because of Spuffy. Or Bangel for that matter. I will watch the earlier seasons, but I can't get into them as much as the later seasons. I can watch episodes from the later seasons over and over again, but not the first three seasons. :(

redrevo

19-06-07, 03:35 PM

I like the later seasons better, because it seemed they had better season-long arcs. There were less filler episodes, and the arcs encompassed all the characters. They also had better themes in the later seasons, with the core four growing apart in Season 4, back together in s5, losing each other in their own real-life hardships in s6, and at the end of s6 coming back together again and realizing their strength lies in each other. From what I've heard, though, I think Spike gets too much screentime in s7 and Buffy/Willow/Xander/Dawn/Giles don't get enough Scooby time.

bishopcruz

19-06-07, 05:32 PM

I think the early seasons were definitely the better ones overall. I think the writing was just so much better, the show was tighter and it seemed that the show didn't suffer from the plot-creep that seeme to define S6 and S7. I liked conceptually a lot of what they were trying to do in the later years, but I think the execution was flawed.

The early years had great writing, great metaphor, awesome character growth, and tight plotting. I don't think the show ever reached the highs of drama that it reached in S1-3. While I think that S5 and S6 were both good and 5 was much better than 6, the show lost a lot of the family feel, and the great scoob interactions were never replaced with anything that was nearly as good.

~M@rie~

19-06-07, 06:25 PM

Well, as vampmogs said, it'll depend on my mood. Both the early and later years have very strong points and made the show evolve.

The high school years were mostly axed on the gang's quest for identity, especially on Buffy's part. This led to great metaphors and themes exploration that were fitting with the things they had to go through as teenagers. Season 2 and 3 were where Joss was at his best, IMO. The way he incorporated classic metaphors but making them perfect for the Buffyverse (i.e.: Buffy sleeping with Angel, making him loose his soul changed his relationship with Bufy) proves that he understood what the Scoobies had to go through at that time.

The later years were also great. The show took a rather "dark" turn but I think that it was needed. The characters evolved and they became adults, therefore they needed to take their lives in their own hands; making their own decisions. Seasons 4 to 7 were mostly about choices (but I prefer Seasons 5 to 7). The writers knew that the characters needed to change, evolve and they give us that in the later years. Even though I don't always approve of the choices the Scoobies made, we needed to see them happen if we wanted to see the show change with the years.

Rosamunde

19-06-07, 09:52 PM

That later series have always interested me more. They capture emotion so much better. The early seasons lack a certain depth of emotion I think, all though it is there. They never quite captures the sheer miserableness of school, though. I think season 6 did despair very well, and I like it a lot because of that. Before 5/6, I found the characters friendly, funny, enjoyable to watch, but in the latter seasons I felt very close to them, and for me the creation of such vivid characters made those season preferable.

Jenni Lou

19-06-07, 10:25 PM

Charmed_Forever

19-06-07, 10:40 PM

I really think the early years where better because there where only the three of them Willow, Xander and Buffy well plus Oz and Giles, but also the Vampires can't forget Spike *evil* lol :D
I thought it was easier before all the others came along like Dawn argh!! because Buffy didn't have the responsibilite then of Dawn and the World she on;y had the world inm the Good old days :D

Rosamunde

19-06-07, 10:41 PM

Seasons 4 and 6 are my faves. And I don't care for 1 very much. If I would have watched 1 first I don't think I would have continued onward. So, I prefer the later years. I also think they were more focused and layered and more funny and poignant.

I don't think I would have watched after series one, either. It had some good moments, but a lot more terrible ones. I don't think the show got into its stride until season three; season two is good but does not have the same poignancy and emotion as later series. There wasn't as much time to build up character depth. Altho the earliest seasons did manage to be a lot wittier than most things.

TrueVengeance

19-06-07, 10:49 PM

And I don't care for 1 very much. If I would have watched 1 first I don't think I would have continued onward. So, I prefer the later years.

I agree. I honestly don't think I would have continued watching if I saw S1 first. Or even seasons 2, 3, or 4. (But, I do like 3) I started with season 5 and 6, and they are my favorites. I just like it more, it seemed more humorus, and had better characters and storylines.

Nostalgia

19-06-07, 11:58 PM

I am surprised with a lot of peoples' opinions here. I really don't think that anything ever came even close to season 3 and 2.. and not to sound stubborn but I know most people agree with me on this. Season 5 gets a few mentions but I find that season extremely overrated. There were too many filler episodes that just really didn't add anything to the show (Listening to Fear, Shadow, Family) and some episodes that were just plain stupid (Tough Love, Buffy vs Dracula) Although I will admit Season Five also had some of Buffy's best episodes ever (Spiral, The Body, The Gift, Fool For Love) and funniest (The Replacement.)

I'd say overall the earlier seasons will always dominate the older ones. It kind of gets me upset to hear people say that they wouldn't have continued watching the show even they started with season 1.. considering besides the relationships and the drama, this is what the show still is about. Monsters. As campy as it is.. it's still a fun and interesting season. Not so much with the fact that some didn't enjoy the season.. more with the fact that people made it seem like the show didn't kick off until the later years.

For anyone to state that season two wasn't doing it for you.. Did you see Passion, I Only Have Eyes For You, Becoming, When She Was Bad, or even Halloween? Even the Bangel arc let alone.. that made for some phenomenal television.

I'd put the seasons in order of greatest to least in this fashion:

Season 2
Season 6
Season 3
Season 7
Season 5
Season 1
Season 4

TrueVengeance

20-06-07, 01:00 AM

I am surprised with a lot of peoples' opinions here. I really don't think that anything ever came even close to season 3 and 2.. and not to sound stubborn but I know most people agree with me on this. Season 5 gets a few mentions but I find that season extremely overrated. There were too many filler episodes that just really didn't add anything to the show (Listening to Fear, Shadow, Family) and some episodes that were just plain stupid (Tough Love, Buffy vs Dracula) Although I will admit Season Five also had some of Buffy's best episodes ever (Spiral, The Body, The Gift, Fool For Love) and funniest (The Replacement.)

I agree somewhat with that. It has some episodes that were pretty pointless, Listening to Fear, Shadow, and Out of My Mind for instance. (I like Family lol) Why I love season 5 doesn't have anything to do with those episodes, however. I love the story arc, and the characters.

For anyone to state that season two wasn't doing it for you.. Did you see Passion, I Only Have Eyes For You, Becoming, When She Was Bad, or even Halloween? Even the Bangel arc let alone.. that made for some phenomenal television.

I LOVE Halloween, thought I'd get that out of the way. Passion was a great episode as well. As for the Bangel arc, thats what bugged me about season 2. I hate Bangel, which is probably why I didn't like season 2 as much as the other seasons.

I'd put the seasons in order of greatest to least in this fashion:

Season 2
Season 6
Season 3
Season 7
Season 5
Season 1
Season 4

Here's mine:
5
6
3
7
2
4
1

holypotatoes

20-06-07, 03:43 AM

I think my favorite season's were 3 and 6. I like season 3 because of the whole story revolving around how Buffy and Faith interact with eachother. Enemies and Graduation Day part 2 are my absolute favorite episodes from season 3. I know the entire ending of Enemies by heart as you might see from my signature. It's great.

The best part of season 6 is Buffy coming back but not as she used to be. I like the darkness of the whole thing. Her life was falling apart before our eyes and there was nothing to do but watch and let it happen (since we have no say in what actually happens). The best was Dark Willow. Come on, the last episodes of the season were great, especially "Two to Go". I'm a little impartial to this season because I started watching in the middle of season 6 once it got onto UPN. I was lost and now I own every season. I'm a little obsessive, all of you probably are too so I'm in good company.

I got to give props to season 2 though. Again a little impartial because it was the first season I bought on DVD. It had a great story line with Bangel. I'm not favoring Bangel, I'm just saying it was a good doomed relationship. Spuffy was pretty good too.

I absolutely hated season 1 and season 7. It wasn't a good way to start or end the show. The 1st season was really cheesy. I'm not a big fan of it. Thank God it wasn't the 1st season I saw. Season 7 didn't really answer much for me. After everything that happened in season 6 it's all fine and well. The last episode I was very disappointed. It should've been a 2 hour special not a normal length episode. It wrapped up to abrubtly. All in all it was and still is a great show.:D

seasons in order:
3
6
2
4
5
7
1

Ravynnia

20-06-07, 08:13 AM

S1 alone would've made me a permanent Buffy fan. Its treatment of horror themes is unexpected, Buffy is unjaded & unwearied & much more vulnerable; I even like Buffy & Angel, in part because he's lean & uninflated.

Pairing the seasons works better for me than ranking them: 1/4, 2/5, 3/6, and seeing how the themes introduced in each of the first three seasons are resumed & made rawer by subtracting more and more of the mysterious atmosphere strengthens the whole experience of the series. The latter seasons take apart the first three the way early modern takes apart classical art; watched in that sequence, they're more revealing than if watched in chronological order, imo.

Salvation

20-06-07, 09:47 AM

I love the first seasons ,dislike the 4th season & for some reason this season is a tottal blur to me & kinda didnt remember it well.season 7 would be favorite of all bcuz they all really matured & come together kinda despite of their differences to fight FE.

My Ranking if i can call it like this:
2
3
1
7
5
6
4

tangent

20-06-07, 10:21 AM

if were talking later years v early years then i would definitely go for the later years. I just feel that the show was very brave to move itself along in the later seasons, to let it's characters grow and develop. I also love the darkness and insecurity of early adulthood and the search for identity that that can entail.

If were talking favourite seasons however i would go for 2 and 6 both superb in completely different ways. 2 for its tragic romance and 6 for it's all out dark angsty goodness.

Nostalgia

20-06-07, 08:23 PM

I agree.. 2 and 6 are definetly the best. It's strange because they're two completely different seasons.. one centered around romance and innocence, the other centered on lust and the dark side of life. I'd say season three is very close as well.. but what I love about the show are the relationships and the emotions.. and while season three is fantastic, it doesn't focus enough on the characters' relationships enough. Season 7 and season 5 are very close with eachother.. they both have extremely great episodes and a streak of really awful episodes. However, it comes down to season seven simply because I think it has the better "better" episodes. As campy as season 1 is, I'd still prefer it over season four because it has a more interesting plotline. Season four ends in last, despite having some of Buffy's best episodes (Hush, Who Are You?, The Initiative, New Moon Rising, and of course Restless.. my favorite episode ever.)

KingofCretins

21-06-07, 01:19 AM

I'll rank 'em:

1. Season 3
2. Season 2
3. Season 5
4. Season 4
5. Season 6
6. Season 1
7. Season 7

RockWild

21-06-07, 02:35 AM

I kind of see the series as one long journey with each season having it's own strengths and weaknesses so it's hard for me to say whether I prefer the early or later years. The only real standout season for me is season three which I think had the strongest arc of them all but I have favourite episodes and moments from every single year.

Jenni Lou

21-06-07, 03:15 AM

For anyone to state that season two wasn't doing it for you.. Did you see Passion, I Only Have Eyes For You, Becoming, When She Was Bad, or even Halloween? Even the Bangel arc let alone.. that made for some phenomenal television.

I'd put the seasons in order of greatest to least in this fashion:

Season 2
Season 6
Season 3
Season 7
Season 5
Season 1
Season 4

I LOVE s4. There are people who find it to be the weakest but I have had this conversation many times and there are quite a many who actually are quite fond of it. And it does have a lot FANTASTIC stand alone eps, i.e. Hush, Something Blue, Doomed. But we all have our own likes and tastes. :)

As for s2....it's good, too. But it's far from my fave. Most of those episodes you mentioned: don't really do it for me.

My order: 6 4 5 3 7 2 1

Nostalgia

21-06-07, 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou
I LOVE s4. There are people who find it to be the weakest but I have had this conversation many times and there are quite a many who actually are quite fond of it. And it does have a lot FANTASTIC stand alone eps, i.e. Hush, Something Blue, Doomed. But we all have our own likes and tastes.

Doomed is fantastic?:confused2: :p

There are two emoticons attached but for some reason (at least for this computer they're not showing up.)

LRae12

21-06-07, 04:43 AM

I LOVE s4. There are people who find it to be the weakest but I have had this conversation many times and there are quite a many who actually are quite fond of it. And it does have a lot FANTASTIC stand alone eps, i.e. Hush, Something Blue, Doomed. But we all have our own likes and tastes. :)

Oh, absolutely, S4 is totally the best...in fact over at BW in the Buffy games section I had a ranking game where we ranked each episode for each season to find out which season was the best, and S4 won in a landslide...yet so many people claim not to like it. But on a whole the overall episodes themselves were great, but the overall Season arc was weak.

My ranking (as of now, because it changes often) would be:
S4
S6
S3
S2
S5
S7
S1

Doomed is fantastic?

Oh, I absolutely loved Doomed - especially Spike's puppy speech at the end...:roll:

KingofCretins

21-06-07, 04:45 AM

"Doomed" would have been better if not for the "Charmed"-level defiance of logic or physics that was Buffy diving into the Hellmouth after that demon, catching up to him (!) despite the demon freefalling and Buffy being held on a line, and Riley's hands not being cut off by the cable he was using.

LRae12

21-06-07, 04:55 AM

^ yeah, well that's true...but there have been so many cheesy and unrealistic scenes throughout Buffy, that that one doesn't hold a candle to. (I love Tabula Rasa - it's my fave ep of the series at this point, but the shark? Give me a break...) :D

KingofCretins

21-06-07, 04:58 AM

The Shark is lame, but at least he's a demon -- his rationalization is built in. Nowhere does Buffy go balls up on physics without a supernatural explanation like they do in "Doomed".

Jenni Lou

21-06-07, 06:52 AM

Doomed is fantastic?:confused2: :p

There are two emoticons attached but for some reason (at least for this computer they're not showing up.)

I happen to LOVE "Doomed." I said we all have our own likes and tastes. Let me have mine!!!! :D

in fact over at BW in the Buffy games section I had a ranking game where we ranked each episode for each season to find out which season was the best, and S4 won in a landslide...yet so many people claim not to like it.

Yes, I have found that to be true back in the day when we were running those rankings too. I agree the arc was weak but I enjoy the season so much because it has so many wonderful stand alones. I usually prefer mythology eps with any series, but with s4 of Buffy I truly enjoyed a lot of the eps. :)

"Doomed" would have been better if not for the "Charmed"-level defiance of logic or physics that was Buffy diving into the Hellmouth after that demon, catching up to him (!) despite the demon freefalling and Buffy being held on a line, and Riley's hands not being cut off by the cable he was using.

Wouldn't be the first or last time the show defied such logic. Overall, I like he ep a lot because it has some great scenes and snippets of dialogue. It's just a fun episode and I, for one, find that it pokes fun of the show in general...which is extra fun on top!!

The Shark is lame, but at least he's a demon -- his rationalization is built in. Nowhere does Buffy go balls up on physics without a supernatural explanation like they do in "Doomed".

Well, I haven't watched Buffy or Angel in what feels like ages but I can remember quite a many an eyeroll of mine at the ridiculous things that occurred. As for this episode in particular? I stand my reasoning stated above. :D It's an ep that pokes fun at the very nature of the entire series.

Lady Manson

04-07-07, 06:12 AM

I prefer the later years for a personal reason. When I started watching the show, I was in twenty and living on my own. I could identify a lot better with Buffy in season six (the best) because I felt like I was going through a lot of the same stuff. I do enjoy the earlier seasons but the later ones are my preference. And when I say the later ones, I don't count the fourth season. That season could have been stripped from my memory with the exception of Hush, Restless, and the introduction of Tara.

vampmogs

05-07-07, 02:05 PM

Doomed is fantastic?:confused2: :p

There are two emoticons attached but for some reason (at least for this computer they're not showing up.)

In comparison to Beer Bad yes it is bloody fantastic. I don't think Doomed is that bad of an episode at all, I find it far more enjoyable to watch than eps like [I] Initiative.[I] As KoC points out below, the line holding Buffy was very, very bad but I don't think it compares in anyway to the horribly cheesy scene when Riley discovers he has feelings for Buffy. Accompany that with the fact the writers openly admit at first they didn't know the exact workings of Spike's chip which is so damn evident in this episode, the fact the troops use a stake to kill the vamp running away with Spike when later Maggie mocks Buffy for using just that and the boring Riley/Willow scenes and I'd say they are about on par with each other.

"Doomed" would have been better if not for the "Charmed"-level defiance of logic or physics that was Buffy diving into the Hellmouth after that demon, catching up to him (!) despite the demon freefalling and Buffy being held on a line, and Riley's hands not being cut off by the cable he was using.

And the fact Riley would have never been strong enough to pull Buffy back up using the string she was attached to, how could anyone possibly get a good enough grip on a line that thin to do such a thing :s I sometimes wonder where the writer's heads were in that scene. Yet, as I said above I can’t be nearly as irritated by this as I am with that Riley scene.

I actually think Doomed worked up the suspense quite well in the final scene, Buffy clearly was frightened about the possibility of the world ending and was messing up rather badly in the fight. I think it had a good level of suspense it's just a pity we had to have the lame "charmed-level defiance of logic or physics" :) to ruin it.

Risa

05-07-07, 02:24 PM

I'm gonna have to say the high school years are my favorites. Don't get me wrong, I love all the show but I can just about watch seasons 1-3 without wanting to skip over an episode. There are quite a few episodes after season 4 that I have to skip. About the only time I watch them is if the remote is broken and I can't get it to skip. The highschool years are what hooked me, and the later years were good enough to keep me. Besides I have to love 1-3 seasons better. They are the seasons of Bangel.