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View Full Version : Who is the betrayer? Version 2 (SPOILERS for all issues)



ciderdrinker
10-08-08, 01:13 PM
I know this has been discussed before, but not for a while and what with issue 17 opening up more possibilities/shortening the list, I thought now would be a good time to open it up again.

So who do you think it will be? Do you not want to discuss it because it will take the surprise out of it?

I'm being a bit contradictory on this because I don't want to speculate too much. The "Closest, most unexpected" comment by Robin means to me that if we discuss it to death then someone will get it right and then it won't be unexpected and therefore not a shock, but it's what all the cool kids are doing so....

In my opinion, issue 17 cleared the way for it to NOT be Willow in any form. It would be too obvious now - it wouldn't be unexpected.

I've always fancied Dawn a little. Ahem, Let me rephrase that - I've always thought that the betrayer could be Dawn. :DThe panels that show her telling Xander about sleeping with Kenny's roommate have a trademark Jossism of a character saying something in one scene and it linking with another scene with different characters but the connection is only seen later on, and in another panel(s) where Xander is basically telling her that everything's ok but Dawn just looks out into the distance. There seems more to tell on this one. Add in the fact that this panel is directly above the one which includes the red egg and then the revelation of the betrayer idea, add it all up and it spells "Duh!" IMO.

Panels for reference
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r191/ciderdrinker/DawnTraitorInfo.jpg
How that will come about I have no idea...

Nina
10-08-08, 01:20 PM
I'm still going for Buffy herself. I always believed that she betrayed herself, but I also like icecreamkiller's suggestion about Buffy betraying the slayer.


In this season, Buffy is doing some stuff that we wouldn't have expected in the past. Robbing banks, acting cold towards people like Angel and Giles, using Satsu, killing humans, letting young girls die instead of her (the fake Buffys), picking slayers above non-slayers etc. And because Buffy (who has a bit of a superiority complex) would never expect this, it's the most unexpected ... and who is more close to Buffy, than Buffy.

vampmogs
10-08-08, 01:35 PM
Ultimately I picked "Buffy betrays herself" but I haven't limited it to that, I just think it's the most intriguing and abstract so I chose it. Though ultimately, the more I think about it the more it might not make sense. It's heavily implied the "betrayer" is the one who doles out the punishment on the beaten and weepy Buffy, and she can't physically do that to herself, unless that's a misdirect.. or maybe it shows this panel because Buffy is weeping after the realisation she has betrayed herself and what she stood for? hmm.. maybe I should have chosen something different... :lol:

I still think Satsu is a possibility. We know she'll be returning, Scott Allie confirmed we have a Jo Chen cover of her coming up in a future issue as well, so that's bound to be not only spectacular (as always) but implies she'll have a prominent role in a future 'one shot' or 'arc.' Satsu has definitely been close to Buffy this season, and I'm not just talking physically but emotionally as well. She touched Buffy's heart in 'A Beautiful Sunset' and gave Buffy an avenue to find a connection, which is something she'd desperately wanted. She also taught Buffy the valuable lesson that not all relationships have to end in doom or gloom... or did she? But I think she could qualify, she gave Buffy the "best night of her life" in a long time and Buffy trusts her a hell of a lot;

BUFFY: You could run this crew one day

and;

SATSU: I won't let you down

Buffy smiles, she believes her, you can see it on her face,

BUFFY: I know you won't

Surely such a pleasant, and might I add adorable scene, is going to be undercut by Satsu doing something wrong? It is the Jossian way.... And Satsu did manoeuvre (perhaps completely unintentionally) herself in a position where she could basically *tell* Buffy that she’ll be taking the Tokyo job. Satsu’s got a whole squad of slayers at her disposal which puts her at a pretty powerful position, one that’s very compromising for Buffy. It’d also be more interesting if given the ‘true love kiss’ Satsu had actually developed real feelings for Buffy whilst being the ‘man on the inside’ which raises the angst.

And I agree about Dawn cidredrinker, I think she’s in a position where she could possibly be manipulated and twisted to a point she betrays Buffy. She’s certainly close and would be very unexpected for Buffy. There’s been a bit of bubbling tension between Buffy/Dawn all season.. What with Dawn thinking Buffy’s dropped her for all her new “slayer sisters” and Buffy thinking all Dawn does is whine. And with Buffy being angry Dawn won’t share information with her but will tell Willow or Xander. Though Dawn’s been kick ass and great all year so I hope it isn’t her.. Poor Dawnie. :(

I’m still not ruling out Renee as being the ‘man on the inside’ though. I actually think the betrayer and the man on the inside could be two different things. Allie made the comment that none of the slayers but Renee were given a surname.. “but he can’t remember it” which a lot of people have speculated is “Molter” she could be the daughter of Lt Molter who talked to Twilight at the end of ‘No Future For You’ and that’d burn Xander. He’d have horrible resentment towards her because being dead she can’t confront her about it, he’d feel discarded and used and it could be a twist on Renee’s final words “I never got to tell him-” which could be Renee about to spill on her activates after falling for Xander and feeling guilty?

As you can see.. Honestly I have no idea either. My head is all over the place, but there’s a few of my theories. I don’t think it’ll be Willow, it’ll be too obvious given ‘Time of Your Life.’ And the status is “the closest, the most unexpected.” Buffy asked Willow right off the bat if it was her, so she’s really not that unexpected to Buffy is she?

Nina
10-08-08, 01:56 PM
My problem with almost all the options, is a "been there, done that" feeling. Also Buffy being the betrayer is in some sort of way like Angel in season 2 of his show.

Xander being the betrayer would be the Willow and Wesley thing again. Maybe even the Cordelia situation.
Giles would be his own repeating storyline, the same for Faith.
Satsu would be like Angel(us), Buffy has sex and gets betrayed by her lover.
And you could also say that Dawn would be like Connor. Connor who picked Jasmine instead of Angel.

Renee would be unique, but a dead betrayer is not that shocking.

vampmogs
10-08-08, 02:06 PM
Renee would be unique, but a dead betrayer is not that shocking.

The idea could have great potential for Xander's character, really the thought could send him over the edge especially on top of Anya's death (remember that comment ages ago from Joss that "it's all about Anya"?), Renee's death and if something terrible happens to more of the slayers under attack at the BHC in 'Time of Your Life.' The only problem with that though is that given the panel in 'Anywhere But Here' it's heavily implied the betrayer will cause Buffy great emotional turmoil, to the point she's weeping (the physical harm still could be by something else so personally not counting that as a dependant) and I highly doubt Renee's betrayal would devastate Buffy on such a personal level.

ciderdrinker
10-08-08, 02:13 PM
My problem with almost all the options, is a "been there, done that" feeling. Also Buffy being the betrayer is in some sort of way like Angel in season 2 of his show.

Xander being the betrayer would be the Willow and Wesley thing again. Maybe even the Cordelia situation.
Giles would be his own repeating storyline, the same for Faith.
Satsu would be like Angel(us), Buffy has sex and gets betrayed by her lover.
And you could also say that Dawn would be like Connor. Connor who picked Jasmine instead of Angel.

Renee would be unique, but a dead betrayer is not that shocking.

I totally agree with this, betrayal is a common theme that has run through both series but how it is handled is what's intriguing to me - more so than who it actually is. For any character to betray Buffy at this point in the season would be out of place because there's more to happen beforehand - it would be like predicting that Wesley is going to betray Angel back when S1 was airing - you'd be all "Huh? Why on earth would that happen?" The journey of Wes betraying Angel was slow and interesting - making it inevitable and shocking at the same time.

With regard to Renee's death taking the impact out of her being the betrayer - here is the crux of the problem of discussing who the betrayer will be - no matter who it is, it's bound to have been mentioned at some point and as the season continues it will become more obvious. We'll be crossing people off the list (like I have done with Willow) and eventually the reveal of the betrayer won't be that shocking at all. A bit like the reveal of Dark(ish)Willow at the end of #17. It had to be either her or Drusilla, and therefore the punch was taken out of it.

Sometimes I wish I didn't read any threads at all.....

Oh and BTW, I forgot to include Hank Summers in the poll. I believe he's been mentioned in other threads too.

Charles
10-08-08, 05:07 PM
I'm going with Dawn not just because of how it would impact Buffy but because of how it would also impact Xander and further his descent into darkness.

dinamo
10-08-08, 06:22 PM
I went for S8 Willow, purely because I think getting involved with Saga Vasuki was a big mistake from her side of things. She ran away from her, and I think its possibly because she's heard some things she didn't like. She could possibly not be the main betrayer but she is in a sense betraying everyone by not letting on what she knows (if she does know stuff from Saga Vasuki that is). I do though think its possible that Buffy is the betrayer of the slayers, and maybe a betrayer of her own beliefs partcularly as shes now seen that all those slayers make no difference what so ever. It could also be a slayer who is the betrayer to Twilight, maybe someone he got his hands on before Buffy and her group found her. But in the end there could also be a more personal betrayal from those closer to the core of the group. You could have a mole slayer working undercover for Twilight, but Willow is the betrayer because of her actions and what she hasn't told Buffy. If Buffy ends magic I can't be Willow being on board with that, or Dawn because if she was made magically surely she'd just be gone as well along with the magic?

Slayer+
10-08-08, 06:27 PM
I'm reasoning out Dawn and Satsu because it wouldn't be unexpected for either of them to betray Buffy. Buffy and Dawn love each other very much, sure, but they are constantly butting heads with each other. Dawn regularly disappoints buffy and vice-versa. If Dawn were to betray Buffy - even if the betrayal was on a grand scale - I doubt Buffy would be too surprised.

Satsu wouldn't be too much of a shock: Buffy told her that people who fall in love with her always get hurt. Buffy knows herself that her relationships tend not to work out. Angel, Spike, Parker, Riley... They all betrayed her in some way. For Satsu to do the same, even though they don't consider what they have a relationship, wouldn't be too much of a shock.