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vampmogs
17-07-08, 09:12 AM
Hey :wave:

We got a new preview for Issue #17 of 'Time of Your Life' and it drops hint at the woman who's waited 200 years in the future is. Firstly though, I find it....odd. We just finished Issue #16 and this is a preview for 'Part Two' and yet.. it feels as if Buffy and Fray have been hanging out for a while? Not what I expected? Here's the link;

http://community.livejournal.com/newly_legion/76813.html#cutid1

So I'm thinking it's most likely Dru, with the dark hair, living for 200 years, speaking in riddles and being called a 'mad woman' BUT it could possibly be a mis-direct given Jo Chen's cover of Dark Willow. Dark Willow also has dark hair, has 'great power' and it's possible she's had enough power to live for this long but it's made her insane. Who knows, maybe we're supposed to think it is Dru then WHAM, Dark Willow.

But anyone else feel it's odd that Buffy and Fray have been hanging out for a while?

Enjoy

Vampmogs :)

EDIT: Oh god. silly me, that's not Buffy who Fray is with :roll: God I'm dumb, I thought it looked quite different from Mollie's Buffy of the previous issue.. ok that explains a lot. God. I really need to re-read Fray :roll:

ciderdrinker
17-07-08, 09:23 AM
EDIT: Oh god. silly me, that's not Buffy who Fray is with :roll: God I'm dumb, I thought it looked quite different from Mollie's Buffy of the previous issue.. ok that explains a lot. God. I really need to re-read Fray :roll:

Yeah I think Fray calling the blonde woman 'sis' kinda clinched it for me!!

I'm still thinking Dru, but maybe you're right there is a twist to come...

vampmogs
17-07-08, 09:33 AM
Yeah I think Fray calling the blonde woman 'sis' kinda clinched it for me!!

:roll: I re-read it and saw that and literally slapped myself on the forehead with a big "wow..you're a dumbass" And then frankly posted on here to correct myself to maintain any credibility whatsoever :err:

I'm still thinking Dru, but maybe you're right there is a twist to come...

I was thinking that maybe Joss has organised the release for this preview and the Darth Rosenberg cover with his own intentions here. What if, now bare with me here- the mis-direct is that it really is Dru? The fans see this description think "too easy can't be Dru" look at Chen's stunning cover of Willow, and think it's Willow, but the mis-direct is that it isn't Willow but it is Dru. I mean why have a cover hiding the mysterious woman's face if you're going to reveal her identity with Chen's cover? It don't make sense.

But both work, it sounds a hell of a lot like Dru but also fit’s the description of Willow and with some creatively one could imagine that she could go insane.. That’s why it’s frustrating ‘cause I just want to know :D

NileQT87
17-07-08, 09:48 AM
some thoughts:

giles is going to sacrifice himself while battling at starbucks? :'(

i'm backing the dru is the almost-3-and-a-half-century-old madwoman that would be found in the watchers' diaries--and especially since she's in with all the lurks/vampires like harth, it makes more sense.

i really wish it were angel and spike who were the ones to deal with drusilla, though. grr. honestly, buffy doesn't have much connection to dru other than they've both had the same guys. well, i guess that would be a connection. or just the fact that buffy actually knows SOMEBODY in the future. probably not the vampire she'd most like to run into, but a connection nevertheless.

wonder what fray is going to think when she reads further in giles' diaries--buffy, faith and fray are all unorthodox slayers, but buffy's the one known for her relationships with vampires. i'd imagine that fray, like gunn and xander, would have issues because of harth being a vampire. faith, while she hasn't, wouldn't have a problem with it ("you boinked the undead" aside) and was quite open for it ("i was thinking more like a long weekend"). fray probably has bigger issues with lurks than the other unorthodox slayers we've known.

it'll be interesting if fray has tension with buffy over family-turned-vampire issues.

vampmogs
17-07-08, 10:02 AM
giles is going to sacrifice himself while battling at starbucks? :'

Do you think that's who they were refereing to? Because.. damn, poor Giles :(


i really wish it were angel and spike who were the ones to deal with drusilla, though. grr. honestly, buffy doesn't have much connection to dru other than they've both had the same guys. well, i guess that would be a connection. or just the fact that buffy actually knows SOMEBODY in the future. probably not the vampire she'd most like to run into, but a connection nevertheless.

Personally, I'm glad Dru would show up in season eight instead of 'After the Fall.' I don't think they could make it work that Dru just happened to be in LA at the time it was sent to Hell. The same way Kate was, the same way Groo is there ect. Angel ran into Kate constantly when she was a character on the show, I ignore it because her story was great, but really it doesn't make sense she didn't create ripples or run into Angel again since her final appearance in 'Epiphany.' Same goes for Dru, especially after the commotion she caused last time she made an appearance in LA.

And really, I'm glad it'll be Buffy who she can form a connection with, although a bitter one. The only way they'll work on it is by giving it the opportunity to develop, after all nor Angel or Spike had a connection with Buffy until they were given the opportunities to have a story together, has to start at some time. And I've always been interested in fleshing out some interaction between Buffy/Darla and Buffy/Dru when Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike have been done to death. There's untapped potential there. Dru's had plenty of time on Ats, I wouldn't mind seeing a story revolved around Buffy VS Dru, the vamp who murdered Kendra, without Spike or Angel getting in the way.

Wolfie Gilmore
17-07-08, 11:13 AM
I'm loving the idea of Dru in season 8. I've long wanted her to have more facetime with Buffy. They're such a perfect antagonistic pair - quite a lot in common (visions, boyfriends, a quirky way of looking at the world, the odd bit of insanity...or lot of insanity) - and they'd just look so cool fighting. Really hope it is her.

Just struck me, and this isn't particularly spoilerish, who Fray reminds me of - Lyra in His Dark Materials. The thief who talks funny thing. :)

Nina
17-07-08, 11:21 AM
I did never read Fray, but is Molly her sister or best friend? I hope that we will get more hints from Fray about what happens in our time.

I'm still not on the "it's Dru" bandwagon. Somehow it is too easy, he already used Amy, Warren, Ethan and Dracula ... how much familiar faces he is going to use in the first half of the season?

Of course, it sounds like Dru ... but somehow between our time and Fray's time will every demon, everything magical leave the world. And somehow I doubt that Dru will find a way to survive, besides ... how does she know that Buffy is there and why should she wait for all those time to kill her. I'm still betting on Willow who will probably find out about Buffy's trip to Fray, when Buffy returns. And if Willow survives whatever stops the magic and demons, she can get out of it as a lunatic ... just like Dalek Caan in DW who saw everything because he went trough a timelock. If Willow plays with time or portals, she can survive but become a complete nutcase.


And about the last great watcher, that must be Giles or Xander ... I doubt that they will talk about Wesley in BtVS in such words and that leaves us with the real watcher (Giles) and the man who is watching right now (Xander).

sueworld
17-07-08, 11:36 AM
If it does turn out to be Dru I'll be disappointed. Mainly because it's not like Joss to be so blatant with the 'hints' as to who it's meant to be. I'm still in the camp that he's building the readership up towards thinking it's going to be Dru, only for them to discover it is in fact Willow who's gone 'grade A bonkers' for some reason. :roll:

Breathless
17-07-08, 01:46 PM
Uum, the watcher Fray is talking about is named Gates, not Giles. And also, it seems to me as she is saying to her sister: "You really set to share a flat with Gates?" when her sister askes her to move in with her, that the spider-monkey-thing is the last watcher she was referring to. Maybe he sacrificed himself and ended up in the shape of the monkey-thing?

dinamo
17-07-08, 02:12 PM
What if its both Dru and Dark Willow. Dru is the one there, but she got help from Dark Willow or something to stay around so long, and maybe a bit more pwoerful.

Wolfie Gilmore
17-07-08, 02:25 PM
Uum, the watcher Fray is talking about is named Gates, not Giles. And also, it seems to me as she is saying to her sister: "You really set to share a flat with Gates?" when her sister askes her to move in with her, that the spider-monkey-thing is the last watcher she was referring to. Maybe he sacrificed himself and ended up in the shape of the monkey-thing?

I think the monkey is just named after a watcher named "Gates"... but assuming that the name is a corruption. Though, 200 years (is that the distance to Fray?) seems rather a short space of time for the Giles myth to be that altered, to the degree that his name is changed.

NileQT87
17-07-08, 04:09 PM
but we have terms like "'merican", "lurks" and "haddyn". fray hadn't even heard of vampires, i don't think. something obviously has happened where the language has morphed beyond what you'd assume to happen in 200 years. honestly, we can understand things today just fine that were written circa 1800. it's more flourished with some spelling and grammar changes, but pretty obvious english for the most part. fray's time has a lot more corrupted words than between us and 200 years ago, imo.

fray's sister, btw, is named erin. she's a police officer. her twin brother, the 15-year-old vampire, is harth. fray was 19 in her comic run. melaka fray has the slayer powers and harth got the slayer visions.

"gates" sounds like a fray-time corruption of "giles".

also... the watchers' diaries? notoriously BAD. giles' books were often the worst (and wesley seemed to get everything right--down to when angelus was in prussia off the top of his head). miss post's comment about giles' books probably was accurate. spike being 200 years old and angel being 18 and human in 1775 come to mind.

and for the non-giles records, one of the comics that has rather been retroactively made canon (the yuki makimura one), has a bit about how when the watchers' council removed yuki from the timeline, they just left the 2-year span blank without adjusting the timeline to hide the empty slot.

-beardo-
17-07-08, 08:19 PM
If they kill Drusilla of in this story they can still bring her back. This story is set in the future so there is nothing saying that drusilla won't appear in ny issues of after the fall or future seasons of buffy.

stormwreath
17-07-08, 09:22 PM
Given that the whole story is about temporal disturbances and time paradoxes and things, it's quite possible that this arc will have Buffy and Fray and Willow trying to find a way to reset time, so at the end of the arc everything will be restored back to the way it was at the beginning, and nothing will have changed.

Which means the missile will have yet to be fired at the castle, and there'll be time to take countermeasures or at least evacuate first... and if Drusilla or Dark Willow is killed in one timeline, they'll still be around in the other.

Koos
17-07-08, 11:12 PM
I think it is Dark Willow and not Druc. The vampire was referring to the dark haired one and manwoman, which can be both. But the vampire was also referring to Black Hope and I don't see any reason why they would call Dru the Black Hope, while I completely understand it for Dark Willow.

CaptainOats
17-07-08, 11:38 PM
I think it is Dark Willow and not Druc. The vampire was referring to the dark haired one and manwoman, which can be both. But the vampire was also referring to Black Hope and I don't see any reason why they would call Dru the Black Hope, while I completely understand it for Dark Willow.

I have to agree with Koos. I think Drusilla is to simple. And the information that is given, makes sense if they were talking about Dark Willow. We shall find out soon enough...

ThePoet's<3
18-07-08, 06:10 AM
Here's another vote for Dark Willow. I just don't think Drusilla has a place in Buffy anymore. If she were to come back it would probably be in Angel: ATF because of her connection to the two vamps. And seems she would be more interested in Spike's new soul and the damage she could cause there than Buffy and the Scoobies.

Nile - I like your conversation about whether Fray will have issues dealing with vampires. She does seem more "anti-vampire". However, as you mentioned she does have problems with her brother being a vampire. I would think it might actually serve as a connection between she and Buffy.

lara
18-07-08, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by ThePoet's<3
Here's another vote for Dark Willow. I just don't think Drusilla has a place in Buffy anymore. If she were to come back it would probably be in Angel: ATF because of her connection to the two vamps. And seems she would be more interested in Spike's new soul and the damage she could cause there than Buffy and the Scoobies.

Count my vote too, I totally agree with you poet. I love Dru, really, think she's a great character but I don't think she should be on Buffy, she should be making things difficult for Angel or Spike.

Plus Dark Willow would be far more interesting, that story can be so much more explored. I wonder though how is it that is would be possible for Willow to go back to the dark place, 'cause last time we saw in Chosen she was all pure and white and shiny. I thought that maybe she had been cleaned somehow by the power of the scythe.

vampmogs
18-07-08, 11:24 AM
I'm hearing a lot of people saying that Dru has a connection with Angel and Spike and therefore would be better suited to 'After the Fall' but I don't really get why? If the writers have that attitude they'd never expand any relationships. I mean the only reason Buffy has a connection with Angel or Spike is because the writers made it this way, why can't they do the same with Buffy/Dru? Wouldn't it be kinda neat to build a new connection rather than relying on the same ones? Buffy/Angel/Spike Dru/Angel/Spike ect.

Sacred Knight
18-07-08, 03:23 PM
Haha, fun easter egg here.

Fray jumping out of the vehicle and Buffy looking over remarking "Does she always have to do that" is almost exactly like the scene in Attack of the Clones when Anakin leaps out of the car and Obi-Wan looks over the side muttering "I hate it when he does that."

As for the madwoman, it definitely sounds like Dru, but I'll wait and see. I won't be disappointed, though. If anything if it is Dru, it just makes Dark Willow's inclusion in this storyline all the more intriguing as no one would be able to guess where it fits in yet.

Nina
18-07-08, 03:29 PM
I'm hearing a lot of people saying that Dru has a connection with Angel and Spike and therefore would be better suited to 'After the Fall' but I don't really get why? If the writers have that attitude they'd never expand any relationships. I mean the only reason Buffy has a connection with Angel or Spike is because the writers made it this way, why can't they do the same with Buffy/Dru? Wouldn't it be kinda neat to build a new connection rather than relying on the same ones? Buffy/Angel/Spike Dru/Angel/Spike ect.


I don't think that there is a place for Dru in ATF, and I've no trouble with Dru popping up in season 8 but I think that her final moment should be with Angel and Spike. Because Dru/Spike/Angel is much more interesting and they have a stronger connection than Dru and Buffy. I think that it will be wasting time to spend too much time with Dru, so going on with unfinished storylines would be preferable to creating a new one. At least for me ...

Thomas
18-07-08, 04:20 PM
So, everyone keeps thinking that Erin is Buffy and a really don't blame you, they do look alike. I'm wondering if this was done intentionally... I wonder if somewhere down the line Buffy or Dawn have any kids? I'm just saying, it's not impossible to think that maybe the Summers' and Fray's share the same bloodline.

Also, the statue that the flying van crashes into, I wonder who that's supposed to be? It has to mean something, I don't see why they would have placed it there, instead of just a random building, especially since it seems to have a force field around it.

As for the identity of "the Black Hope," I'm thinking Willow. In "Fray," Harth wanted to open a gateway to the demon world in order release demons back into our world. Willow could do that for him, Dru couldn't.

I'm seriously hoping this is a set-up for a regular "Fray" series!

Koos
18-07-08, 10:55 PM
So, everyone keeps thinking that Erin is Buffy and a really don't blame you, they do look alike. I'm wondering if this was done intentionally... I wonder if somewhere down the line Buffy or Dawn have any kids? I'm just saying, it's not impossible to think that maybe the Summers' and Fray's share the same bloodline.

It seems to me that Buffy is fully integrated in an alternate future. If that's the case she needs to find out who she really is and where she has been coming from. It seems to be in contradiction with what we saw at the end of issue 16. To me she seemed to fully know she is Buffy.

I can't keep away the thought that the magic from the missile will change Xander into the monkey we saw in Fray's future. He also survived the two centuries and know about DarkWillow.

If both Buffy and Xander are gone, than I can see Willow progress into DarkWillow.

ThePoet's<3
18-07-08, 11:25 PM
I'm hearing a lot of people saying that Dru has a connection with Angel and Spike and therefore would be better suited to 'After the Fall' but I don't really get why? If the writers have that attitude they'd never expand any relationships. I mean the only reason Buffy has a connection with Angel or Spike is because the writers made it this way, why can't they do the same with Buffy/Dru? Wouldn't it be kinda neat to build a new connection rather than relying on the same ones? Buffy/Angel/Spike Dru/Angel/Spike ect.

I agree - if writers allow themselves to never "get outside the box" with their stories then we wouln't have some of the great character development we have had - take Season 6 for example.

However, I think there is a line between character development/growth and context.

I FINALLY received my TPB Volume Two of Season 8 "No Future for You" yesterday (BTW - I love the TPB's! It's so nice to read everything in one book!) and it ends with "Anywhere but Here" which is a big reveal between Buffy and Willow - Willow thinks she caused Tara's death because she brought Buffy back from death.

And although Buffy asks Willow if she is going to be the one to betray her - and Willow says it won't be her - there are many "things" that say she's not telling the truth.

There's the panel with Willow's face in which the demon says, "End of magics."

We are also introduced to the Snake Goddess for the first time. And as she has already made another appearance since this issue and with a HUGE set-up cover of Dark Willow - it just seems things are pointing towards Willow.

Also, I just watched Season 6 Buffy again - Dark Willow - she does NOT like Buffy. Willow gets a lot of stuff off her chest when she's Dark Willow. She resents Buffy always beiing the power of the group and basically sees her as just "muscle" and nothing else.

See there's more "context" for it to be Dark Willow than Dru.

I'm curious as to how Dru would have anything to do with Buffy and the Scoobies?

BUTT - stranger things have happened! If it's Dru - and Twilight turns out to be Angel - then I think my "placing Buffy bets" are over!!:lol:

Vampire in Rug
18-07-08, 11:36 PM
I can't keep away the thought that the magic from the missile will change Xander into the monkey we saw in Fray's future. He also survived the two centuries and know about DarkWillow.


But that would mean no more Xander. I strongly doubt that the writers would just get rid of such an important character like that.


In "Fray," Harth wanted to open a gateway to the demon world in order release demons back into our world. Willow could do that for him, Dru couldn't.


In "Fray" Harth seemed to be doing just fine in opening the gateway to hell without the help of Dark Willow. Same with the Master in (and pre) season one, Angelus in season two and Glory in season five. Given the right knowlege and rituals, I'm sure Drusilla could be just as capable of opening up a hell gateway as anyone else.

Much as I hope Harth's mystery girl is Drusilla, I hope it's explained how she survived the purge of magic that Urkon explained in "Fray". And After ATF is done, I'd really like for IDW to do some Spike/Drusilla interaction and explore how she'd react to his soul and how Spike would regard her now. I'd love a tragic story where Spike feels some sort of responsibility in helping/redeeming Dru and Angel thinks the only right thing to do is end her existance. Also, I'd love for Dru to meet Connor.

I'm also hoping that Harth doesn't get killed. He's Fray's nemisis and deserves to be killed under Fray's own title someday. To me, it would feel wrong for him to be killed in a Buffy book.

If my calculations are correct, Dru was sired in 1860, and "Fray" takes place in the 23rd century, (lets assume that the year is somewhere around 2460 for simplification purposes) that would make Drusilla 600 years old. Anyone else wonder if her age will make her partially deformed like the Master? I hope not, because here's a good chance to debunk the myth that the Master was 600 when he was killed. In reality he should be much older.

Nina
19-07-08, 12:14 AM
I doubt that 600 years is old enough for Dru to be so strong (Harth was talking about somebody who was much stronger than him.), Darla was already 400 years old and she showed no special powers at all, she also didn't got the green glow the old vampire in 'City of ...' had or problems with showing her human face. The same for Angel who is 350 years old (100 years in hell + 250 years). And we know that a young vampire is not always weaker than a vampire who already walks around for 400 years. I think that 600 years is too soon for Dru to be so much stronger than Harth, and much too soon for special vampire powers or a deformed look. If she has anything special, it won't be much ... maybe a green glow when she is in gameface?

tangent
19-07-08, 12:16 AM
Much as I hope Harth's mystery girl is Drusilla, I hope it's explained how she survived the purge of magic that Urkon explained in "Fray"

well we know that vamps as a whole survive into frays time so the fact that Dru is still alive wouldn't be too problematic. Her visions might have been taken from her though along with her mystical hypnotism thing. If Buffy is the slayer that brings an end to magic then that could well be enough for her to hold a grudge. I'm thinking once Dru holds a grudge it pretty much stays held.

Vampire in Rug
19-07-08, 04:01 AM
I was always under the impression that lurks were pretty new to Fray's world. None of them save for Icarus and Harth really knew what they were, they were all savage animals, much less intelligent than the present day Buffyverse vampires.

The general population thinks of lurks as just another form of radiation mutants like Gunther and Loo.

There's also a line of dialogue from Urkon's bosses saying that "the portal has been breached twice already". I took this to mean that the first time the portal was opened, some wild vampires returned to New York (after being banished for so long) and the second time the portal was opened was to send Urkon to help Mel Fray clean up Harth's mess.

That was my interpretation anyway.

vampmogs
19-07-08, 04:14 AM
I doubt that 600 years is old enough for Dru to be so strong (Harth was talking about somebody who was much stronger than him.), Darla was already 400 years old and she showed no special powers at all, she also didn't got the green glow the old vampire in 'City of ...' had or problems with showing her human face. The same for Angel who is 350 years old (100 years in hell + 250 years). And we know that a young vampire is not always weaker than a vampire who already walks around for 400 years. I think that 600 years is too soon for Dru to be so much stronger than Harth, and much too soon for special vampire powers or a deformed look. If she has anything special, it won't be much ... maybe a green glow when she is in gameface?

Perhaps she's just stronger in the physical sense? Or in the sense of her 'sight.' Angel, Darla, Dru and Spike were far more formidable than nearly any other vampire on the series, alone they'd take down multiple vamps at once. Perhaps that's what the vampire meant?

I don't think Dru has to be particularly interested in Buffy beforehand to want to do this now? It's entirely possible that she's had a vision of Buffy coming into the future and perhaps altering things that she's fond of, and thus decides to put a stop to it? And it's been 600 years, plenty of time for Dru to get a little better at the strategising. After all, she organised the Judge all by herself, it was her plan and she executed even Angel says she's crazy enough to do it. When she puts her mind to something she can succeed, and we've seen that she's used her visions in the past to take matters into her own hands. Like going to the shop keeper who gave Jenny the orb of Thesula.

I still think itís more likely Willow, even if the cover was a bit of a weird spoil? But I think they could work Dru into it and still have it make sense.

modifiedblind
19-07-08, 05:08 AM
Also, the statue that the flying van crashes into, I wonder who that's supposed to be? It has to mean something, I don't see why they would have placed it there, instead of just a random building, especially since it seems to have a force field around it.


I did some research... and found out that the the sign the statue is making with his hand is the number 7 in sign language... I'm not sure exactly what 7 has to do with anything though.

CaptainOats
19-07-08, 05:15 AM
I'm still thinking Dark Willow. I have to agree that Dru seems like she would have more of a place in Angel: After the Fall. To show up in Buffy Season Eight would just be kinda' random in my opinion. But hey - anything's possible on Buffy right!


So, everyone keeps thinking that Erin is Buffy and I really don't blame you, they do look alike. I'm wondering if this was done intentionally... I wonder if somewhere down the line Buffy or Dawn have any kids? I'm just saying, it's not impossible to think that maybe the Summers' and Fray's share the same bloodline.

Yeah, it's quite plausible. It is kinda' strange though how familiar they look, it would certainly be a great twist. But on the other hand, I have never been able to picture Buffy married or in a family, and I think she would be worried of putting her children in danger. But I can see Dawn eventually settling down with someone and even having kids, but with that in mind, since she is still the key, she wouldn't actually have any of the genes that Buffy has, and actually isn't a ''real real'' daughter of Joyce, there would be no way of her kids looking like Buffy, would there? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't watched the Seasons with Dawn for a few years. And who even knows if Dawn even can have kids with all these changes she's going through!


As for the identity of "the Black Hope," I'm thinking Willow. In "Fray," Harth wanted to open a gateway to the demon world in order release demons back into our world. Willow could do that for him, Dru couldn't.!

Yes Willow could definitely help him, but Harth didn't really have any trouble doing that on his own in ''Fray'', so I'm not really sure about that. But I can totally see where you're coming from with the idea of Willow as the Black Hope. It seems to fit much better than Dru with some of the information pointed out already in the Forum.


I'm seriously hoping this is a set-up for a regular "Fray" series!

I know! I loved the Fray comics. But I dunno if Joss could handle that with all the projects he's doing already. Buffy Season Eight, Angel: After the Fall, Dollhouse, and a few other minor projects. It may not seem like a lot of work to do to us, but that's just cause as fans we always want more more more more! But believe me, it is! But I would be totally all for a montly Fray comic. Melaka rules! Definitley on par with Buffy and Faith, and in my opinion, probably even a little better. Love her history, attitude, everything! Fray all the way!

NileQT87
19-07-08, 06:18 AM
first off--23rd century = 2200s, not 2400s. if fray's time is exactly 200 years after faith is called (the last real slayer), fray was called in 2198 (2196 if buffy is considered the last real singular slayer). rounding off to about 2200, drusilla would be 340 years old + about 20 human years in fray's time. that's less than were angel is now.

i'm still behind the idea that i want drusilla's big finale to be with spike and angel. they're the ones that she would cause the most pain to deal with. she's little more than an old familiar face to buffy.

well, there's the idea that the several-hundred-year-old batty person could also be AMY, which is, imo, who the facial shape matches with the girl standing beside harth. drusilla is emaciated and lethargic-looking (played up to great effect in juliet's physicality when playing the role)--and her facial shape isn't quite so round--thinner. it *looks* like amy. and imo, it looks exactly how jeanty draws amy and looks nothing like his willow. the facial shape is all wrong for both dru and willow (though the dress is something dru or willow-like)--and the physique is definitely not dru's.

we also have general voll and his group all referring to amy as a madwoman who went insane with her skinless boyfriend eating people who remained buried in the crater. we've already established that she's insane now.

though perhaps the fact that after the fall went as far as to show BOTH angel and spike in the future with flying cars and clothing right out of blade runner, that it is very possible that they have to do with something in fray's timeline.

but the dark-haired crazy person who speaks in riddles is only one person. neither willow or amy, as far as i know, have ever had the stars talk to them and say things like "the king of cups expects a picnic..." closest amy got to crazy talk was saying it was willow's birthday when it wasn't. but yeah, her gothic madness is probably harth's new wacky sidekick. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nemB-u-TmjI)

and imo, i think season 8 has thrown new light on what amy was actually doing in the killer in me--i think she was trying to give warren willow's body to take over--which is why willow could feel warren taking over her. it wasn't a random manifestation of warren for amy at all, imo, since we know he was actually saved (dead for a few seconds, but alive). it stinks of amy trying to give warren willow's body.

dinamo
19-07-08, 10:10 AM
The more I think on this storyline with the powerful foe from the past, the more I don't mind who it is as long as it explained why that perosn is there. I really don't want something that just drops a powerful foe into the storyline but does nothing with it. The foe needs to be talked about and have their own story in a way, if its all about Buffy and Fray and we don't learn barely anything about the foe whats the point? Why not just have someone new, and kill them. Just like the vamps in the last arc, bring them in and then get rid of them. If its someone we already know it needs to be explained how they got from point A in the Buffy time, to point B in the Fray time.

Thomas
19-07-08, 02:59 PM
Yeah, it's quite plausible. It is kinda' strange though how familiar they look, it would certainly be a great twist. But on the other hand, I have never been able to picture Buffy married or in a family, and I think she would be worried of putting her children in danger. But I can see Dawn eventually settling down with someone and even having kids, but with that in mind, since she is still the key, she wouldn't actually have any of the genes that Buffy has, and actually isn't a ''real real'' daughter of Joyce, there would be no way of her kids looking like Buffy, would there? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't watched the Seasons with Dawn for a few years. And who even knows if Dawn even can have kids with all these changes she's going through!Well, the way that I, and I'm pretty sure almost everyone else, sees it, is that Dawn lost all the "key powers," making her a normal human. Also, in conversation between Buffy and the Monk in 'No Place Like Home':
BUFFY
I didn't ask for this! I don't even know... what is she?

MONK
Human... now human. And helpless. Please... she's an innocent in this. She needs you.
So, I think it's safe to assume that when they say human, they mean an actual, 100% human.



Yes Willow could definitely help him, but Harth didn't really have any trouble doing that on his own in ''Fray'', so I'm not really sure about that. But I can totally see where you're coming from with the idea of Willow as the Black Hope. It seems to fit much better than Dru with some of the information pointed out already in the Forum.That's true, but he failed at doing so. Since, I doubt he'll be able to find another giant snake thingy. Willow, a powerful witch who's got extremely powerful over, what? Eight or nine years? Imagine how power she'd be two hundred years later? Powerful enough to open a portal. I doubt Drusilla could do that.

Also, the summary states that the girl in question waited two hundred years to bring down the last two slayers... Drusilla would have no clue about Buffy being in the future, or the fact that Melaka exist. Wilow, on the other hand, will most likely find out through Buffy, so she'll know the exact moment Buffy arrives in the future, and when to plan for it.



I know! I loved the Fray comics. But I dunno if Joss could handle that with all the projects he's doing already. Buffy Season Eight, Angel: After the Fall, Dollhouse, and a few other minor projects. It may not seem like a lot of work to do to us, but that's just cause as fans we always want more more more more! But believe me, it is! But I would be totally all for a montly Fray comic. Melaka rules! Definitley on par with Buffy and Faith, and in my opinion, probably even a little better. Love her history, attitude, everything! Fray all the way!Well, "After the Fall" is almost over. It's got a fifteen or so issue run. So, if Joss has several different writers, like with Season 8, it's possible. Also, he won't be writing anymore issues of Season 8 until the last five, which is like fifteen issue after 'Time of Your Life'...

Charles
25-07-08, 10:38 AM
I thought it was obvious even with the cover that it was Dru. The cover was just your standard comic book cover meant to get a potential buyer's attention and not in any way reflect what the story is actually about.

And if there is a twist I think it will be that Dru has somehow become human.

"The Black Hope" sounds like a line Spike would say to her, to my ears at any rate.

"Gates?" I wonder if it's not Andrew to whom they're referring as he's a Watcher in training and sacrificing himself in battle would be something I can see him rationalizing if it makes for some of the evil he's caused.

Morrydwen
25-07-08, 09:20 PM
Also, the summary states that the girl in question waited two hundred years to bring down the last two slayers... Drusilla would have no clue about Buffy being in the future, or the fact that Melaka exist. Wilow, on the other hand, will most likely find out through Buffy, so she'll know the exact moment Buffy arrives in the future, and when to plan for it.

Except she's been shown to be psychic before (in her crazy way)--her visions were present even when she was human, before Angel made her crazy and turned her, in fact. Allowing that Dru lives for another 200 years, which seems quite possible, I don't see those as being arguable stop-gaps for her.

Also--imagine how much power Dru could gather in 200 years? Could be more than enough to open a portal like that. I'm on the 'It's Drusilla' boat. :)

dinamo
25-07-08, 10:21 PM
Black Hope does sound like something Spike would call her. He's called her Black Beauty, Black Goddess, and Black Queen I think. So in thjat respect Black Hope isn't far off names she's been called before. I think the fact she's a seer does help to explain how if its her she'd know. Just because people don't always understand what she's witting about doesn't mean she's not talking the truth and sense, its just cryptic truth and sense. If she knows about Spike soul that could be reason enough to want to smash Buffy to pieces, but I'm not sure what her reasons with it being about Slayers would be. Buffy I could get on board with, but it seems to be more about the last two slayers not just Buffy. Willow on the other hand might want the Slayers gone, maybe she thinks she made them so she has to get rid of them especially if Slayer ended her bleoved world of magic. Amy could be the opposite and the same. Opposite in that she wants to ruin and end Willow's most noticeable act, and the same because the Slayers may end her beloved world of magic.

Koos
03-08-08, 09:16 PM
But that would mean no more Xander. I strongly doubt that the writers would just get rid of such an important character like that.


Only for the duration of this arc. Everything will be back as it was before the missile had hit the castle and (practically at the same time) Buffy was sent to the future.

Thinking further about this theory, it would suggest that Twilight delibaretly chose this moment to the castle and to change the timeline to his own liking. It would suggest that he knows what is going to happen and what will possibly happen. Like he's truely from the future (or one the possible futures).

Charles
04-08-08, 04:50 AM
Only for the duration of this arc. Everything will be back as it was before the missile had hit the castle and (practically at the same time) Buffy was sent to the future.

Thinking further about this theory, it would suggest that Twilight delibaretly chose this moment to the castle and to change the timeline to his own liking. It would suggest that he knows what is going to happen and what will possibly happen. Like he's truely from the future (or one the possible futures).

So the theory about him being an Alternate Xander could still have legs then?