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KingofCretins
05-06-08, 10:28 PM
Part III of "Time of Your Life" opens with one of Jo Chen's most beautiful, if unexpected, covers.

Jo Chen 8.18 cover (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0806/05/buffy18a.htm)

Georges Jeanty 8.18 variant cover (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0806/05/buffy18b.htm)

Blurb --

A powerful enemy from Buffy's past confronts the Slayer and Fray in the future, having allied with Fray's greatest foe. Meanwhile, Dawn's gone through another bizarre change.

Thoughts on covers and blurb --

Wow, Dawn is hot even when she's a horse's ass :) And Buffy... even with three dimensions to work with, she still can't drive :)

I think the powerful enemy from Buffy's past thing all but confirms what many of us already thought -- Drusilla is back, and aligned with Harth. Very impressive combination.

What could have caused Dawn to morph into a centaur, I have no idea. Perhaps Willow tries something that will shrink her, but this is the side effect?

Ralphie
05-06-08, 10:41 PM
I think it is Drusilla on the cover, not Dawn

Gabrielle
05-06-08, 10:51 PM
I think it is Drusilla on the cover, not Dawn

Drusilla was my first thought as well!! Then when I read KoC's post, I thought I was mistaken because I have been too influenced by all the suppositions about the variant cover of episode 16 (or 17?).
But still, the summary of the issue mentions a bizarre change for Dawn, and becoming a centaur certainly counts as one... So I guess Dawn is very likely

Enisy
05-06-08, 11:10 PM
More crack. To quote Xander: "Yay?"

I'm pumped about Drusilla showing up, though. She should work wonders at Harth's side. :) I just hope they don't kill her off or redeem her.

Thomas
05-06-08, 11:26 PM
More crack. To quote Xander: "Yay?"

I'm pumped about Drusilla showing up, though. She should work wonders at Harth's side. :) I just hope they don't kill her off or redeem her.Well, even if she's killed, it's still really years off.

As for Dawn, is she a giant centaur or a normal, small centaur?

Enisy
06-06-08, 12:02 AM
Giant Mecha Centaur, the people at Whedonesque are (very rightfully) joking.

Heather
06-06-08, 01:06 AM
I'm on the side that thinks that that's supposed to be Drusilla. Chen has drawn Dawn before and it looked just like Michelle Trachtenberg so I'm not sure why this cover wouldn't look like Dawn if it was supposed to be her.

Plus, the wide-eyed, grinning facial expression? Very Dru. Now, why Dru's a centaur or why she's being represented as a centaur...I do not know. But it certainly makes no sense whatsoever if Dawn went from glowing ball of energy to normal girl to giant girl to centaur over the span of her very short life. There's no common thread. At all.

Sacred Knight
06-06-08, 01:09 AM
So, is it likely that Dru somehow traveled to the future as well, or are we simply to assume our favorite, to quote Giles, "quite mad" vamp keeps herself from getting staked for a really long time? The latter makes more sense to me, but who knows.

Also, regarding the cover, The first thing that came to my mind when I saw Dawn as a centaur (I'm assuming Dawn considering the blurb) was Willow. Not Willow, but remember the movie Willow? In any case there's a running gag throughout the movie of the main character trying to revert a powerful sorceress back to her human form, only he's just a novice himself so he changes her into a whole bunch of different animals till he finally gets it right. Makes me wonder if someone decides enough is enough and tries to work some mojo to revert Dawn's size and she's turned into a centaur instead. :roll:

tiger_fan
06-06-08, 03:16 AM
Hi. First post here. So *waves*

When I first saw the centaur cover I thought it was Dru. I didn't read the blurb so it didn't even occur to me that it was Dawn until I went to Whedonesque and every one was talking about Dawn. Its the eyes and the expression that made me think it was Dru. It looks more like JL to me than MT. If it is Dawn, I also saw someone speculating that since a thricewise is involved with this than poor dawnie might be in store for another change since thrice means three. I shudder to think what's next if that's true. I think at this point it would be more shocking to see Dawn change back to normal size because it definitely doesn't seem to be on Buffy's priority list at this point. Poor Dawnie. Being a half-naked horse girl will make for some awkward situations around Xander. Although at least now she'll be able to hang out in the castle instead of just peeking in through windows and being trapped in the basement, now she can be trapped in the barn.:p

And for the other cover...

I also thought the idea of Buffy driving in the future was funny. Its good to see that driving flying cars is just as dangerous for the mass innocents as her driving the regular ones. I just wish Willow, Xander, and/or Dawn were there to quip on the fact.

vampmogs
06-06-08, 03:25 AM
To be honest I thought it was Dru as well. As others have mentioned we've seen Chen draw Dawn before and she's never looked like this (not talking about the horse part!). I guess it makes sense it was Dawn given the blurb below the picture. However, isn't it possible it could be Dru? If she's still alive in Fray's time which is a good few hundred years since where we are now, it's possible she's began to transform much like Kakistos did with his hooves?

And very cool to see that Buffy still can't drive, love the fun continuity there.

KingofCretins
06-06-08, 03:49 AM
Based on the blurb, it's pretty clearly Dawn. They're going to blurb Dawn going through a big change, and then show someone else becoming a centaur? What did Dawn do, die her hair, then? I also think it looks much more like Michelle Trachtenberg than Juliet Landau -- certainly if compared to Chen's 8.04 cover. I saw it and never even occurred to me that it might *not* be Dawn. It still doesn't -- especially since Dru on the "A" cover in solicitation would be a pretty big spoiler in a solicitation, considering that the blurb still won't specify the enemy from Buffy's past. If the cover's Dru, why wouldn't it say Dru?

I also firmly reject that this is crack. We're dealing with the end of magic, which necessarily dovetails with the end of faerie -- Joss has been immersing the season in fairy tale imagery since the beginning to reinforce this. It's incredulity and fantasy itself that Twilight poses a threat to, symbolically -- the darkening of the human imagination. So we've had a giant (who even says "fe fi fo fum"), we've had fairies, we've had dwarves/gnomes, and now we'll have a centaur. It's not crack when it's in the intended idiom, surely.

vampmogs
06-06-08, 04:10 AM
I also reject the idea it's "crack as well." We've actually seen pictures of such centaur creatures in some of Giles' books. I'd bet my money on it. Just because they haven't surfaced before on the show, in no way indicates it's "crack" that they could be a part of Buffy's world. Especially when she's not in Sunnydale anymore. I was actually thinking about this and I think it raised an interesting point. I've gathered that in different regions there's different kinds of demons. It's very cool that in Europe there's more fairytale like demons than there was in Sunnydale. Especially when we already have a basis for that with the Hansel/Gretel demon of 'Gingerbread.'

XANDER: Fairytales are real.

This season, as King points out as had loads of fairytale imagery. We have a castle, Buffy's had loads of queen like imagery associated with her, she's been told she needs to "rescue the prince" and we've had a lion shaped monster chase her in her dreams. We’ve also had the “kiss of true love spell” with the sleeping beauty imagery, only in typical Buffyverse fashion it was tipped on its head with the prince actually being a woman who gave her a kiss.

I actually think it’s very cool. Fairy tales are commonly misconceived as being rather fruitless but when you look past the pretty pictures they’re actually incredibly ruthless and dare I say, creepy at times.

EndersWrath
06-06-08, 04:31 AM
Based on the blurb, it's pretty clearly Dawn. They're going to blurb Dawn going through a big change, and then show someone else becoming a centaur? What did Dawn do, die her hair, then? I also think it looks much more like Michelle Trachtenberg than Juliet Landau -- certainly if compared to Chen's 8.04 cover. I saw it and never even occurred to me that it might *not* be Dawn. It still doesn't -- especially since Dru on the "A" cover in solicitation would be a pretty big spoiler in a solicitation, considering that the blurb still won't specify the enemy from Buffy's past. If the cover's Dru, why wouldn't it say Dru?

I also firmly reject that this is crack. We're dealing with the end of magic, which necessarily dovetails with the end of faerie -- Joss has been immersing the season in fairy tale imagery since the beginning to reinforce this. It's incredulity and fantasy itself that Twilight poses a threat to, symbolically -- the darkening of the human imagination. So we've had a giant (who even says "fe fi fo fum"), we've had fairies, we've had dwarves/gnomes, and now we'll have a centaur. It's not crack when it's in the intended idiom, surely.

Honestly it doesn't look like Dawn or Dru, at least to me. When I saw it (before reading the blurb) I kept scanning my mind to see if I could perhaps come up with who it was before having the blurb spoil me... but I couldn't.

That centaur looks nothing like Dawn or MT. The centaur has black hair and Dawn has light brown hair. The face also seems to be a bit to small for Dawns features.

Just because the blurb says that Dawn goes through a change doesn't neccesarily mean that that cover is Dawn, I mean when have the covers made too much sense with the storyline? If S8 has taught me anything, its not to think of the covers too seriously with the actual plot. I mean Renee was on the cover for 8.15 and she died in the issue prior. There are a bunch of other things that could happen to Dawn, not just "dye her hair" ... over simplify much? She's an effing giant, there is a bunch of crap that can happen to her, this is the Jossverse for christ's sake, anything can happen. Joss and co have fooled us before with blurbs and covers so im sure their just doing that again.

But that centaur looks way more like Dru than Dawn if I had to choose.

vampmogs
06-06-08, 04:49 AM
Truth be told the cover reminds me a lot more of the actress who plays Anne in 'Tudors' than anything else, it's a splitting image. :)

It looks me like Dru to me as well but I'm just going to say it's Dawn because logically I guess it makes the most sense. Just because of the blurb really.

Though in saying that, I don't think it's necessarily too Spolierific to have Dru on the cover because clearly she isn't Dru from our time and a lot of people wouldn't guess it.. with the hooves an' all.

And as Enderswrath said, it's also entirely possible that this is nothing but symbolic, who knows.

KingofCretins
06-06-08, 04:55 AM
Michelle Trachtenberg Reference Photo #1 (http://www.wallpapergate.com/data/media/764/michelle_trachtenberg_101.jpg) -- look particularly at the third picture.

Michelle Trachtenberg Reference Photo #2 (http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/michelle-trachtenberg/pictures/michelle-trachtenberg-picture-1.jpg)

Juliet Landau Reference Photo #1 (http://www.sand-in-my-shoes.com/moon/ca3.jpg)

Juliet Landau Reference Photo #2 (http://www.sand-in-my-shoes.com/moon/sagjl2.jpg)

Jo Chen Dawn, 8.04 cover (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-114%20b)

Jo Chen 8.20 cover (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0806/05/buffy18a.htm)

*shrug* Make of it what you will. Still looks more like Dawn to me. Certainly when taken in the context of the solicitation. Really doesn't make any sense to conceal the identity of the recurring character in the solicitation if you're putting her on the cover. And if you're putting her on the cover to sell the book, why would one put her on the cover in so unfamiliar a form that it's ambiguous at best if it's even her?

alexa
06-06-08, 04:56 AM
urgh damnit Dru needs to die! Someone give me a stake :p I just watched Becoming recently, so the need for Dru to pay is fresh with me again.
Anyway I thought Dru was the centaur? sagittarius thing at first.. but it does look like Dawn as well. Maybe the spell to turn her back messed up.. you know like The Emperor's New Groove ;) lol.
This coming arc looks really fun, hope they get them all out on time.. reading Allie's update was a little scary.

Sacred Knight
06-06-08, 04:56 AM
Here's my odd take on the identity. When it comes to looks, honestly I didn't seeing a lot of Michelle Trachtenberg there. But at the same time I didn't and am still not seeing Dru either. It's not even close for me. The hair looking dark is the only thing I see that can be related to Drusilla, but even then I think that's only a play on the hues of this image, and the character's hair isn't black at all. With all that in mind, I first saw it, I honestly thought it was Buffy. I just thought I could see some of SMG in the facial features, so then when I read the blurb, I just then assumed it was supposed to be Dawn, and either purposely or not they made her look a lot like her sister.

vampmogs
06-06-08, 05:28 AM
Wouldn't it be hilarious if it was neither Dru or Dawn? :roll:

Tiger speculated that 'Thricewise' implies "three stages" hence, the "thrice." Which actually makes a lot of sense. I really like that. We've seen in the preview panels Dawn's change starting to begin as she screams and clutches her stomach. I'm guessing it's the beginning of her transforming into this?

Sacred Knight
06-06-08, 05:50 AM
Ooo, I like that too.

vampmogs
06-06-08, 06:23 AM
Same here. Also goes with that old saying of "bad things always come in threes." It'd be the perfect punishment for her in Kenny's eyes (if he is responsible) as he'd want Dawn to pay.

EndersWrath
06-06-08, 07:40 AM
Better theory?

Dawn's big change? She somehow gets merged with Dru and a horse. See, then everyone would be right :xd Plus, theres a three involved. Pretty much win, win ... win.

Looking at it more and more, if I try to see Dawn I can, same with Dru. .... hell, even if I really try, I can see Faith :roll:

Nina
06-06-08, 09:00 AM
Actally, I think that it really looks like Dawn. It's not a cover which looks like a picture, but when I saw it ... it was Dawn for me. And it explains Dawn's pain, without her being pregnant.

I don't want to call it crack, but I'm not sure if I like it ... everytime they do stuf like this (all those helicoptors, big armies, giant Dawn, flying Willow, fairytail things), it feels less en less than the BtVS I started watching years ago. It's not a bad thing for the story, but it makes it less fun for me. That's probably why I love the cover for issue 20, with the little trio moment.

I'm sentimental I guess.

and about the other cover;
Buffy drives a car ... and it doesn't go very well ... :p

sueworld
06-06-08, 10:55 AM
Am I looking at a completely different set of covers here?

Why anyone is jumping to the conclusion that It's going to be a return of Dru stuns me quite frankly. I mean where are we getting this from? It's obviously a really dodgy painting of Dawn as a centaur (Oh god Joss just give it up for gods sake, This 'Dawn as mad object of the week' got old months back) and Buffy and Fray in a flying car? I can't see anything to indicate that Drus going to turn up, so what am I missing that the rest of you are seeing?

vampmogs
06-06-08, 10:57 AM
[SPOILER]
I don't want to call it crack, but I'm not sure if I like it ... everytime they do stuf like this (all those helicoptors, big armies, giant Dawn, flying Willow, fairytail things), it feels less en less than the BtVS I started watching years ago. It's not a bad thing for the story, but it makes it less fun for me. That's probably why I love the cover for issue 20, with the little trio moment.

I can see why you feel this way, Joss was actually asked about it early on in season eight's run and he said that he felt the whole thing had to be more epic than more 'mundane' like the television show. I can see why that'd be jarring for some people. I personally think it's a natural progression of where we were in 'Chosen' with the incredibly epic battle with hundreds of Turok Han and the destruction of the Hellmouth. Buffy's on a global scale now and has a lot more people in her command, the only way to have a threat is by having other armies or very strong opponents. But I do see where you're coming from. Before season 8 actually started I remember expressing my own concerns about this on Buffyworld (RIP) after seeing the five page preview for Issue #1. I think it was Sosa at the time who agreed with me on that and we were both fairly concerned we wouldn't be able to enjoy the season because of it. Fortunately I've gotten rather used to it and for me it didn't effect my anywhere near like I thought it would, and I’m assuming Sosa is fine with it as well? It’s understandable to me at least it would still effect people’s enjoyment.

But I agree, the intimate smaller moments are what make the season for me, like the Issue #20 cover. And in ‘Wolves At The Gate,’ like Buffy saying she wasn't leaving Xander alone, or the Buffy/Satsu conversation or Xander hugging Buffy after killing Toru. The big battles, though rather impressive, are just window dressing for all that stuff.

P.S The only thing I do come up strongly against is the Willow flying because we have actually seen that on the show on a number of occasions. Whilst I think Giant Dawn is perfectly reasonable for the Buffyverse given other things we have seen, I agree it would never have been shown due to budget constraints, as Joss himself admitted. But flying Willow? Well we got that in ‘Tough Love’ ‘Two to Go’ and it was implied she did it at the end of ‘Villians’ as well.

KingofCretins
06-06-08, 11:09 AM
Sue -- the return of Drusilla is speculated on the strength of the Jeanty variant cover for 8.17, in which a shadowy figure wearing a period dress is shown standing beside Harth Fray as he sits on a throne, with a hand on his shoulder. Then the 8.18 solicitation refers to a familiar enemy from Buffy's past. I think it's almost a given that we're getting some Drusilla, which is great.

The confusion starts... and I can't help you on this :)... with the debate over who the centaur woman is on the Jo Chen 8.18 cover. Good news is, I'm actually hoping CowboyGuy will be able to get a straight answer out of Georges Jeanty or Scott Allie as soon as possible so this doesn't turn into a debate for months. For myself, it seems still very much to be Dawn, and her pains in the short 8.16 preview we got a while back are the beginnings of a process which, by 8.18, will change her from a giant woman to a normal-sized centaur.

vampmogs
06-06-08, 11:12 AM
Sue -- the return of Drusilla is speculated on the strength of the Jeanty variant cover for 8.17, in which a shadowy figure wearing a period dress is shown standing beside Harth Fray as he sits on a throne, with a hand on his shoulder. Then the 8.18 solicitation refers to a familiar enemy from Buffy's past. I think it's almost a given that we're getting some Drusilla, which is great.

Others speculated Amy but that doesn't seem likely unless she got to Fray's time as well, but I seriously doubt it. I think that stemmed from people mistaking Harth for Warren who haven't read Fray yet. I'm hoping it's Dru for one big reason, if not for all the other little ones, that she was cunning enough to stay alive that long. I think it's wonderful, she's one resilient mad woman. It just amuses me that she could be globe trotting for so long, causing havoc and signing to the stars and is smart enough to last when all the other vamps appeared to die out (at least for a while.)

Nina
06-06-08, 11:35 AM
That rises lots of questions. If Dru is in the future; Will Drusilla travel in time, or hide in another dimension until she can return? And how does she do that? Dru seems to be the only one of the four vampires who never has a real plan.

If it's Dru, I really want to know what she is doing, and how she is doing it.

And does Dru count as one of the Ats characters who started in BtVS and comes back to BtVS for a visit?

sueworld
06-06-08, 11:36 AM
Anyone got a link to the issue cover for 17 then?

I think that cover is meant to be Dawn, sadly.

Nina
06-06-08, 11:38 AM
I think that it's this one;

click for the cover of #17 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1208532087)

sueworld
06-06-08, 11:53 AM
Thanks for that.

Oh dear. What an awful cover.

If it is meant to be Dru she's regressed to looking about 12 years of age then. With Jeanty I find it very hard to get who he's depicting half the time, so I'll take your word for it.

It would fit in with what Allies been banging on about though.

Wolfie Gilmore
06-06-08, 12:12 PM
So, I think it's Dawn, but I love this idea that vampmogs put forward:



If she's still alive in Fray's time which is a good few hundred years since where we are now, it's possible she's began to transform much like Kakistos did with his hooves?

Such a fun thought. I also love the idea of Dru surviving that long. However, given the blurb, it seems like it must be Dawn.

Weredog
06-06-08, 12:13 PM
Same here. Also goes with that old saying of "bad things always come in threes." It'd be the perfect punishment for her in Kenny's eyes (if he is responsible) as he'd want Dawn to pay.

Which would make complete sense since three is a significant number in fairy tales... to further your previous statement about fairy tales and "Buffy". ;)

vampmogs
06-06-08, 12:25 PM
Is it? I never knew that! Well in that case I really hope tiger is right about the speculation :D

Weredog
06-06-08, 12:56 PM
Yup. That's why there are always three trials, three incidents, or three characters. The Queen kills Snow White on her third attempt, the brother in "Little Brother and Little Sister" drinks from the enchanted stream on the third spring, Jack climbs the beanstalk three times, and there are of course three pigs and three bears.

In some other (but fewer) fairy tales, the number seven is significant like the Seven Dwarfs and the Seven Ravens. Which is why a certain group of "Buffy" fairytale monsters need seven hearts and they might take yours... ;) Ahh, man, Joss sure knows his literature.

So, yeah, like you and Tiger have said: I wouldn't be surprised if Dawn is put through three stages of transformation. I'm still wondering on how and whythough! :xd

vampmogs
06-06-08, 01:03 PM
That'd be rather fantastic. :)

I hadn't ever realised that, great stuff now you've got me thinking! And I had no idea where the number seven came in regards to the Gentlemen either, and here I thought it was all random! :p

Well if this does turn out to be the case we can add it to further fairtytale symbolism this season for sure. Which is great because I'm actually really fond of such symbolism, I was fond of it in both 'Gingerbread' and 'Hush' and I really like the mythology behind it. Wouldn't it be unexpected but cool if the prince Buffy needs to save is in fact Kenny the Thricewise?

Though I still think it'll be Xander somehow. After all if Buffy's queen of the castle he's most certainly the prince.

Wolfie Gilmore
06-06-08, 01:11 PM
Damn, now I've got "three is a magic number" stuck in my head.

Did the comic establish that kenny definitely caused Dawn's giant sized status? I never quite worked out whether he did or not... whether it's been left ambiguous because there might be another cause (something to do with her keyness? Or whatever) or whether I just missed where they explicitly said it was Kenny.

Sorry, and I forgot to say, I've enjoyed the fairytale elements of this season (and all seasons). When we were doing a virtual season 8, the fairytale ep was the funnest to write, because there's so much in Buffy that works like a fairytale...and yet, so much that works against the fairytale grain. Sometimes Buffy beats fairytales at their own games (Hush, she screams like a princess...kinda), sometimes she subverts them or exposes them (Gingerbread, she punctures the myth and shows the monster beneath the story). I like that contrast.

dinamo
06-06-08, 04:32 PM
I really hope that Dru has simply survived that long and is now still alive in Fray's time, two people travelling through time is stupid. I hope they make her stronger physically then she was usually shown to be on Buffy because otherwise I'm not sure how she'd have survived on her own for so long. She survived to around what 200 I think surrounded by Darla, Angelus and Spike. So I hope with age she's become more powerful. It'd be good to show how she's a senior vampire and how she managed to survive when so much stuff didn't make it to the Fray time line.

I will say one thing about the Jo Chen cover though, whoever it is, I think its looks beautiful.

some spykie ship
06-06-08, 04:44 PM
I've noticed from both the Buffy S8 and ATF comics so far that even the best artists don't always draw flawlessly. If it's an old enemy still around far in the future, and she's dark haired and wearing a dated dress, it probably is Drusilla, it just doesn't seem like it because the artist was a little rushed or having an off day, which is no big deal once you read everything in context.

I believe that the centaur is obviously Dawn because of the whole "changes" thing, and I agree that it could be caused by Willow trying to help her. It wouldn't be Willow's fault, because as far as I'm aware, nobody's established so far what spell was really used on Dawn. Also, Dawn being created from mystical energy might complicate things a little.

I read a comment about Dru being redeemed. I don't think that's what should happen, but I noticed that in all of the previous seasons the Scoobies and alternate Slayers worked alongside some ally only half human. If I'm right, and the Scoobies need a vampire around for some reason, then maybe Drusilla will somehow end up with a soul. It might drive her even more insane or there might be a completely different reaction, but something like that might be interesting to see. If Spike doesn't return, Drusilla might be their chance for a vampire. Of course, they'd have to find her and put a soul in her in the present, not in the future. She's definitely powerful enough to be helpful if she wants to be.

Sosa lola
06-06-08, 04:51 PM
Fortunately I've gotten rather used to it and for me it didn't effect my anywhere near like I thought it would, and I’m assuming Sosa is fine with it as well?

She's so fine with it. Too fine with it. It makes Sosa go :2party:

I really need to read Fray to understand this arc. so much reading this month :D

some spykie ship
06-06-08, 04:54 PM
I actually read Fray as soon as I saw that she was getting an arc. I'm trying to figure out if Buffy appearing is part of her destiny described in the beginning of "Fray" or a defiance of parts Buffy's future because of a freak accident.

Enisy
06-06-08, 04:55 PM
I read a comment about Dru being redeemed. I don't think that's what should happen, but I noticed that in all of the previous seasons the Scoobies and alternate Slayers worked alongside some ally only half human. If I'm right, and the Scoobies need a vampire around for some reason, then maybe Drusilla will somehow end up with a soul. It might drive her even more insane or there might be a completely different reaction, but something like that might be interesting to see. If Spike doesn't return, Drusilla might be their chance for a vampire. Of course, they'd have to find her and put a soul in her in the present, not in the future. She's definitely powerful enough to be helpful if she wants to be.

Oh, I hope not. Two vampires with souls = awesome. Three+ vampires with souls = LAME.

some spykie ship
06-06-08, 04:59 PM
Oh, I hope not. Two vampires with souls = awesome. Three+ vampires with souls = LAME.

That might not be a problem if three doesn't become or remain the number. If Angel doesn't survive to be corporeal (since contracts with W&H extend beyond death), or Spike doesn't make it, there would probably be only two vampires with souls again. If neither Angel nor Spike survives, there would be only one vamp with a soul if Drusilla became souled.

dinamo
06-06-08, 05:04 PM
That might not be a problem if three doesn't become or remain the number. If Angel doesn't survive to be corporeal (since contracts with W&H extend beyond death), or Spike doesn't make it, there would probably be only two vampires with souls again. If neither Angel nor Spike survives, there would be only one vamp with a soul if Drusilla became souled.

Isn't there currently only one vampire witha soul?

Enisy
06-06-08, 05:14 PM
It wouldn't matter to me. What I mean to say is... Spike getting a soul was done in an epic fashion and prerequired some pretty radical stuff as its setup, so it's not a journey you can mimic without repeating yourself. And you can't really use the curse on another vampire, since it's Angel's trademark. And, at the end of the day, souled Spike worked so well because that twist added to the Angel/Spike dynamic, and highlighted the similarities and differences between their relationships with the heroine. I can't see any other ensouling -- whether it be Drusilla's or Gunn's or, y'know, Harmony's -- making so much sense as to be almost imperative, story-wise and theme-wise, like Spike's.

sueworld
06-06-08, 05:18 PM
Isn't there currently only one vampire witha soul?

Err, yes, although the jury's still out a bit on that one really.

KingofCretins
06-06-08, 09:39 PM
I agree with Joan in "Tabula Rasa" -- even one is lame. All that adding more does is increase the level of the lameness.

Although that said, I would love it if Spike's ultimate storyline upon returning from Hell-A (assuming he does) is to see to Dru, to try to bring her back. It's actually something I think both Angel and Spike should feel compelled to try to do.

sueworld
06-06-08, 10:06 PM
I agree with Joan in "Tabula Rasa" -- even one is lame.

What, you think Angel is lame?!! Who would have thunk it! :roll:

Na, I can't see Angel or Spike doing that. Mainly because with the current storyline in ATF that they will even get the chance.

tiger_fan
06-06-08, 10:23 PM
I'm fairly certain that the centaur is Dawn considering the blurb, and the more I look at it the more I see Dawn, but at the same time the drawing still resembles Dru a little bit to me. I think its something with the eyes. They have a mischievous look to them or maybe its the angel.

This picture is a some-what similar angle (some-what meaning not really at all lol) but again its the eyes that are familiar.

http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/Characters/Drusilla.jpg

That said, I think its a pointless discussion since its probably Dawn. It would be funny though if it turned out to be neither one.

If it is Dru in the cover of the future it wouldn't surprise me, the crazy ones always manage to hang on.

This is totally OT but Weredog I love your icon. Every time I see it I have to stop scrolling just to stare at it for a second.

Matt
07-06-08, 10:39 AM
Beautiful cover, 'tis a bit strange and unexpected too.If it's Drusilla then maybe this is what happens to vampires when they live for so long, they suddenly morph into centaurs, I mean Kakistos had cloven feet, so it could make sense.

If it's Dawn then I'd say it was either a side-affect of a spell Willow's done to make her shrink or something that Kenny the Thricewise has done, again.

I don't think it is supposed to be Dru though 'cause on the Jeanty's cover you can see her dress at floor length, even if she is covered in shadows, so I don't think there'd be much point in a centaur wearing a floor length dress, not with an ass like that.

I suppose we can only wait in anticipation for answers.

some spykie ship
07-06-08, 04:40 PM
Beautiful cover, 'tis a bit strange and unexpected tooso I don't think there'd be much point in a centaur wearing a floor length dress, not with an ass like that.


You are a laugh and a half, and...

I agree about the floor-length thing. Dru always wore dresses that were really long like the one worn by the woman by Fray's brother, and it was insinuated in the past that some dresses were gifts from Spike, so maybe we'll see her show fury about what happened with him, Buffy, and the WMD from W&H. I'm calling it a WMD because it was capable of destroying a town, so please don't be offended by the reference.

Drusilla doesn't have humanity, but she was Spike's sire, giving her a connection to him that could be difficult for the Scoobies to understand.

dinamo
07-06-08, 04:58 PM
i wonder if when it comes to Dawn and any of her changes, maybe none of this was meant to happen, maybe the fact thats she's some kind of mystical energy messed up whatever spell was originally done to her and made things worse.

sueworld
07-06-08, 05:15 PM
Well that would be more logical an approach. Something to try and explain away the farcical things have been done with this character so far.

"Hi I'm Dawn. A walking comedy prop" *groan*

Somehow I still doubt that will turn out to be who you're all saying that women is. Something just seems 'off' to me.

RuFio
07-06-08, 07:33 PM
that cover of the centaur is so beautiful. This is kind of lame but when I was younger I was in love with the centaurs in Fantasia and to see it now in the buffyverse just makes me kind of giddy! This addition definitely makes it clear that the writers are incorporating mucho fairytale elements into season eight and I think it is awesome! I've been into the comics since issue 1 and I've continuously liked them more and more. Keep them coming!!
About Dawn though, I wonder what her third transformation might be!? I can imagine it will be shocking -hopefully in a good way though, like the centaur.

And if Dru is in the future with harth, I really hope she wouldn't be there any other way than just having survived that long. Darla lived to be a good 400+ years so it would make sense for Dru to still be undead + kicking!

some spykie ship
08-06-08, 02:41 AM
Somehow I still doubt that will turn out to be who you're all saying that women is. Something just seems 'off' to me.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in that issue. I really can't think of another enemy who looked like that, though.

Wolfie Gilmore
08-06-08, 09:20 PM
Re Centaurdawn.... anyone for Glenstorm/Dawn slash? Or Roonwit/Dawn? And will there be rival Glendawn vs Dawnwit shipper battles? And can anyone lend me some brain bleach?

Weredog
14-06-08, 09:44 PM
http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CIrgkfPLmv6pdhCsAhjvATIIyHsiBbVfUcY

Hey, on YouTube.com, I found this ad that claimed Dawn is going through another bizzare change atop the cover of #18.

It's official.

The centaur is Dawn and Dawn is the centaur.

Niiiice! :2party:

KingofCretins
14-06-08, 11:11 PM
Really glad Scott or someone else at Dark Horse took note of the plea (well, my plea) to take out the "ambiguity" of this. Better to speculate on what its a cover of rather than on what it only *might* have been a cover of.

Wolfie Gilmore
15-06-08, 04:25 AM
No one taking me up on the Roonwit slash? Aww, spoilsports :D And with Prince Caspian* coming out soon and all. Mind you, Dawn (as a human)/Prince Caspian has a certain bizarre crossover appeal. Or maybe that's the Cerveza talking. :D

Good to have the ambiguity over who it is cleared up, yup.


*Ok, he's probably in the Last Battle but still....Narniaction!

some spykie ship
17-06-08, 06:03 AM
It's been so long since I posted here, I can't even remember what my take was on the centaur, but I could swear I agreed about it being Dawn, whether or not I said it.

I as well as KingofCretins sent a message to Scott or some rep, only mine wasn't so much about covers as about something I'd like to see in S8. I'd mention it but it's OT.