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flow
26-07-18, 10:10 AM
Screenrant published a list by Jamie Gerber of fifteen unresolved plot holes or mysteries from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. You can find the list here:

https://screenrant.com/buffy-vampire-slayer-unresolved-mysteries-plot-holes/

15 .One girl in all the world

"Into every generation a slayer is born: one girl in all the world, a chosen one.” This already doesn’t really make sense, but we’ll let it go because the Shadow Men obviously had their reasons. However, is there any logic behind why said Chosen One remains in one place?

Sunnydale isn’t the only area located on top of a Hellmouth, nor is it the only town plagued by the supernatural. It defies logic for Buffy to remain there - Kendra obviously went where the actual threat was.

Having a home base would be one thing. We know that when the series starts out, Buffy doesn’t even have her license yet, which would make travel pretty difficult - not to mention that whole truancy thing. Still, it’s never really explained why slaying isn’t a more mobile operation. Thankfully, the comics did address the issue by having Slayer cells positioned across the globe.

14 .Normal Again

Perhaps this episode wrapped things up with a meta “what if” moment, but the truth is, “Normal Again” ends on a very ambiguous note. Throughout the installment, we are presented with evidence that the cause of Buffy’s psychosis is the villainous trio. Sure enough, after Buffy is given the antidote to combat the poison causing her hallucinations, the status quo returns. However, the final scene is not of the Scoobies, but rather, of Buffy retreating into herself once again while still locked away in the institution.

Whedon has said that the ending is left open to interpretation, but fellow writer Marti Noxon stated, “If Buffy's crazy, then there is no girl power; it's all fantasy. And really the whole show stands for the opposite of that, which is that it isn't just a fantasy.” Still, some fans believe that the entire series was just one long delusion.

13 .The Master and the Anointed One

Much about Buffy’s first official Big Bad remains a mystery. Whedon’s notes referred to him as Heinrich Joseph Nest, so it’s possible he was of Germanic descent. However, those notes also put his age at around six hundred. He had already “grown past the curse of human features” by 1609 when he met Angelus, so he must’ve been older.

Season 10 of the comics revealed that the Master was sired by Demon Lord Archaeus, but the year is unknown. He was the only vampire ever to leave behind a skeleton after death and although it can be assumed that this was due to his age, it was never explicitly stated in the show.

Aside from the Master, not much was revealed about Collin, aka the Anointed One. Apparently, he was meant to play a pivotal role in season 2, but Andrew J. Ferchland was aging too quickly to continue to portray him.

12 .Angel’s strength level

While it can be said that Buffy’s level of strength depended on who wrote the episode, it was not nearly as inconsistent as Angel’s. His power seemed to grow exponentially from the time he was introduced until he got his own series. Sure, you can say that he hadn’t yet committed himself to the cause early on, but wasn't clear that he could be a match for any match for the Slayer until he lost his soul.

Does anyone remember when Kendra locked Angel in a cage at Willy’s and he remained trapped by the world’s smallest padlock on an incredibly flimsy door? Though this was probably due to budgetary constraints, perhaps a different means of containing him would’ve made more sense. This is one glaring example of many that was later ignored for the sake of powering up Angel.

11 .Vampires vs the Sun

There is an inconsistency regarding the way that vampires are killed in the presence of sunlight. If they are extras, the undead pretty much burst into flames the second that they are exposed, but main characters seem to have a bit of a grace period.

There are enough examples of this happening that the difference is quite apparent to anyone paying attention.

This was obviously necessitated by the story at times, but it doesn’t change the fact that different reactions to the sun for different vampires doesn’t make any sense. We’re not saying that we would’ve rather seen Spike burn, but all of the “redshirt” vampires go up in flames immediately, while vamps who actually matter catch fire very slowly.

10 .Turok-Hans
This is an issue that has been pointed out by many BtVS fans. When Buffy first battles a Turok-Han, she is completely decimated. The Slayer is not only bested, but were it not for the First’s instructions to keep her alive, Buffy would’ve met her end right there.

This would all be fine if not for the fact that when the Slayers fight an army of them in “Chosen”, girls with far less fighting experience than Buffy cut right through the Turok-Hans.

Sure, plenty of those girls die in battle, but if all of the Übervamps were as strong as the one that Buffy fought, the Slayers wouldn’t have gotten far at all. One possible explanation is that the first Turok-Han was called forth by the proper ritual, while the army was rushed, making them less formidable. This makes sense, but was never stated on the show.

9 .The Night of St. Vigeous

For an annual vampire holy night, this holiday seems to pass every year without much drama.

The show only deals with the Night of Saint Vigeous during season 2.

It seems like a pretty big deal. For the three nights preceding it, vampires prepare by fasting, chanting, and self-mortification. This is all in commemoration of the vampire Saint Vigeous’s crusade through the Middle East. It was also said that the vampires were at full strength on this night.

It could be argued that once Spike killed the Anointed One, the rituals so important to the Order of Aurelius were abandoned because he and Dru had little respect for them. The guy couldn’t even wait for the proper night to attack Buffy. Still, it’s strange that this important vampire holiday was never revisited in either Buffy or Angel.

8 .Jesse was never mentioned again

Putting aside the fact that neither the writing nor Eric Balfour’s performance gave viewers much reason to care about Jesse’s fate, it’s a bit strange that Xander’s best friend was never mentioned again - especially considering that Xander was the one to put a stake through his heart.

BtVS became very well known for exploring emotional fallout rather than simply having the characters immediately recover. This is probably the only instance of such a traumatic event taking place and the consequences being literally nothing.

It was actually planned to have Jesse return as the First in “Conversations with Dead People” but Balfour was unavailable, so instead the episode became the only one in which Xander does not appear. Even the comics, which are currently pepping a 12th season, haven’t mentioned Jesse more than once, despite expanding upon many elements of the series.

7 .The Initiative was not stealthy

When you think of a secret government agency, you probably don’t imagine a bunch of dudes walking around wearing ski masks during the day. That is, however, exactly what the Initiative was when we were introduced to them. Whether they were “blending in” on Halloween or just hanging out in broad daylight looking shady, one thing is for certain: these guys were the opposite of stealthy.

It turns out that the main reason BtVS featured such a sad excuse for a secret government organization can be traced back to a lack of funds, according to Joss Whedon. “…we had the crappiest secret government agency in the history of television, and we did it. We didn't have the money to make them better.” We suppose that’s a fair point.

6 .Buffy’s birthday

Perhaps Moloch is to blame for this error in continuity, but in season 1 episode, “I Robot, You Jane”, Buffy’s birthday is shown twice - and they are two different dates.

An online profile lists it as October 24th, 1980, while later the website reads May 6th, 1979.

However, season 4 installment, “Doomed” adds another layer of mystery when Buffy claims that she is “Capricorn, on the cusp of Aquarius.” This makes more sense than the previous dates, because it would put her birthday around mid or late January, which is when the show generally celebrated it.

According to Whedon, Buffy Summers was born January 19th, 1981. This seems logical considering she graduated with the class of ’99. Perhaps Moloch the Corrupter corrupted the data after Willow inadvertently released him into the internet during the season 1 episode.

5 .Willow's magic

Any addict will tell you that addiction doesn’t just go away once you realize that it’s a part of you. Yet, that’s exactly what happened to Willow’s. Her entire season 6 storyline was based around her growing addiction to magic. Whether you loved or hated the metaphor, it wasn’t subtle enough to be mistaken for anything else: Willow was a junkie.

We recognize that having Willow not use magic for the show’s final season wouldn’t really have worked, but claiming that she could with a throwaway line that it was part of her and specifically not an addiction didn’t make a lot of sense. The writers needed to either explain that situation more clearly or not use the addiction plot in the first place. Instead, they tried to have it both ways and the result was confusing to say the least.

4 .The mantis eggs from “Teacher’s Pet”

This season 1 episode began the trend of demons finding Xander attractive, although the mantis lady wasn’t nearly as interested in his looks as she was in his what he could give her. However, prior to setting her sights on Xander, it would appear that Ms. French mated with Dr. Gregory before beheading him - like mantises do.

The final shot of the episode reveals that eggs were left behind and are hatching.

This was never brought up again. Did the mantis people hatch and go on to live their mantis lives? Did Buffy find them all and hack them to bits too? More than likely, the writers never thought about it again, but the fans sure did.

3 .Can vampires breathe or not?

Much has been made of the fact that Spike smoked throughout the series, especially considering Angel’s statement about vampires not having breath. Let’s move past that, though, because there are more serious continuity errors where this subject is concerned.

For example, in season 2 Spike puts Drusilla out with a sleeper hold. Sure, the way that this works is by cutting off blood flow to the brain. However, the reason the hold has the intended effect is because the blood is carrying the oxygen necessary to remain conscious. So really, a sleeper hold should’ve been completely useless on a vampire.

Another glaring example is when the First tortures Spike in season 7 by drowning him! We’re not saying that having your head repeatedly forced underwater would be pleasant, but if you don’t need to breathe, it’s probably not all that scary.

2 .Why not re-ensoul more vampires?

If the idea is that when a person is turned, they are nothing more than a demon, then why not try to restore their humanity? While we recognize that the Orb of Thesulah that Giles just happened to be using as a paperweight is a rare item, they were obviously not impossible to find. Plus, there was no proof that once the Ritual of Restoration was complete that the Orb could not be used again for the same purpose.

We understand that it would be impossible to re-ensoul all vampires, but using the spell as a means of fighting the undead was never even discussed. Obviously, having a soul doesn’t preclude people from committing monstrous acts. Even still, it seems a bit strange that no one ever discussed this option.

1 .The library was always empty

This strange phenomenon has been addressed by the show on more than one occasion, with characters being completely shocked that a non-Scooby dared to enter the library. Sure, the Scoobies were in high school and needed a place to meet, but the library is a pretty public one. Even if the students of Sunnydale High weren’t particularly erudite, it’s still strange that neither students nor faculty made more than the occasional appearance.

Aside from the fact that the library was so empty that you could hear crickets chirping, it just seems like at some point, someone might’ve noticed that the same students were always there. They were also awfully cozy with the school librarian, which to the casual observer would’ve seemed a bit off. At least the series always had a good sense of humor about it.

flow

TriBel
26-07-18, 10:31 AM
The library was always empty

Oh FGS! The pub in Coronation Street is always full of people who shouldn't be able to afford a drink; no-one in Eastenders owns a washing machine. It's a narrative device - live with it. This is a series about demons and vampires - why demand versimilitude in some aspects and not others? That aside - couldn't it be a metaphor? Technological change / tensions between past - present / books being both a source of evil and offering a solution to evil? I could go on.

That aside - you should see how empty the library at my place of work can be.

HardlyThere
26-07-18, 10:39 AM
Unexplained =/= Plot hole.

Just skeet-shooting...

-Is it ever said that Saint Vigeous was annual?

-Both Kendra and Faith are shown to be traveling slayers.

-Willow's "addiction" to magic was a metaphor, just as it was a metaphor for sex at one point.

A lot of these sound like they get why they didn't but want to complain about it anyway. You're not getting my click, screenrant.

TriBel
26-07-18, 10:55 AM
Unexplained =/= Plot hole.

See - I'd argue that if you think of plot as both "story" and "discourse", then many of the (story) holes are filled in by the discourse.

There's a summary(!) here: http://www.lhn.uni-hamburg.de/article/plot

This is the definition of plot they give: "The term “plot” designates the ways in which the events and characters’ actions in a story are arranged and how this arrangement in turn facilitates identification of their motivations and consequences. These causal and temporal patterns can be foregrounded by the narrative discourse itself or inferred by readers. Plot therefore lies between the events of a narrative on the level of story and their presentation on the level of discourse. It is not tied to a particular mode of narrative expression, and it can be observed across media and genres".

HardlyThere
26-07-18, 11:13 AM
See - I'd argue that if you think of plot as both "story" and "discourse", then many of the (story) holes are filled in by the discourse.

There's a summary(!) here: http://www.lhn.uni-hamburg.de/article/plot

This is the definition of plot they give: "The term “plot” designates the ways in which the events and characters’ actions in a story are arranged and how this arrangement in turn facilitates identification of their motivations and consequences. These causal and temporal patterns can be foregrounded by the narrative discourse itself or inferred by readers. Plot therefore lies between the events of a narrative on the level of story and their presentation on the level of discourse. It is not tied to a particular mode of narrative expression, and it can be observed across media and genres".

I don't do the transformative thing. A plot hole classically is a direct contradiction within the world-building that is never explained and cannot be rationalized. If you say A=3 and B=4 and then try to say A+B=9, you have yourself a plothole.

A BTVS example would be if, say, Anya never (lamely) explains that Ubervamps CAN be staked, you just have to do it harder, then it would be a plothole. That's not to say there aren't any in Buffy/Angel and some are listed in that article, but far too often people confuse not liking an explanation with it being a structural problem.

bespangled
26-07-18, 11:15 AM
15 .One girl in all the world - I've always figured that the Shadow Men infected Sineya with demon essence in order to deal with a localized problem. Creating more than one slayer risked either the two of them fighting over territory or worse, the two of them cooperating against the SM. Since they didn't plan to eventually populate the world, they didn't design a system to protect the world.

5 .Willow's magic - actually Willow is pretty much in the same situation as a food addict. We all need to eat - it's controlling intake that's the issue. I think Willow shows some realistic fears about magic, and her addiction. And yeah - this plot line sucked.

2 .Why not re-ensoul more vampires? - When they re-ensouled Angel he got his own soul back. Spike got his own soul as well. However since the souls are personalized you would really have to know a lot of specific vampires to pull all those souls out of the ether. Or else you would shove random souls into unsuspecting vamps making them completely crazy and even more dangerous.

TimeTravellingBunny
26-07-18, 11:32 PM
14 .Normal Again

Perhaps this episode wrapped things up with a meta “what if” moment, but the truth is, “Normal Again” ends on a very ambiguous note. Throughout the installment, we are presented with evidence that the cause of Buffy’s psychosis is the villainous trio. Sure enough, after Buffy is given the antidote to combat the poison causing her hallucinations, the status quo returns. However, the final scene is not of the Scoobies, but rather, of Buffy retreating into herself once again while still locked away in the institution.

Whedon has said that the ending is left open to interpretation, but fellow writer Marti Noxon stated, “If Buffy's crazy, then there is no girl power; it's all fantasy. And really the whole show stands for the opposite of that, which is that it isn't just a fantasy.” Still, some fans believe that the entire series was just one long delusion.
Those fans are pretty dumb. (Sorry. But they are.)

The show can't be 'just one long delusion' even in theory, when about half of it takes place outside of Buffy's POV, and includes many events and conversations Buffy was never even aware of. Plus, there's that whole spinoff that ran for 5 seasons.

flow
27-07-18, 01:40 PM
TimeTravellingBunny:
Plus, there's that whole spinoff that ran for 5 seasons

Maybe Angel was in the same institution? :lol:

flow

Priceless
27-07-18, 02:43 PM
Those fans are pretty dumb. (Sorry. But they are.)

The show can't be 'just one long delusion' even in theory, when about half of it takes place outside of Buffy's POV, and includes many events and conversations Buffy was never even aware of. Plus, there's that whole spinoff that ran for 5 seasons.

It was all meant to be in Buffy's imagination and I am sure Buffy could imagine other people's behaviour without actually having to be there

TimeTravellingBunny
27-07-18, 03:17 PM
It was all meant to be in Buffy's imagination and I am sure Buffy could imagine other people's behaviour without actually having to be there


Yeah...including all the behaviour she had no clue was happening, like Angel visiting Spike and Dru right after losing his soul, Faith going over to the Mayor, Maggie's experiments with Adam, all of the Wishverse, Warren killung Katrina and then framing Buffy, etc...

To quote Oz, that makes the kind of sense that's not.

Priceless
27-07-18, 03:52 PM
Yeah...including all the behaviour she had no clue was happening, like Angel visiting Spike and Dru right after losing his soul, Faith going over to the Mayor, Maggie's experiments with Adam, all of the Wishverse, Warren killung Katrina and then framing Buffy, etc...

To quote Oz, that makes the kind of sense that's not.

She has an imagination and a mental illness, I am sure the world is her imaginative oyster. I'm surprised it actually made any sense at all :D

HardlyThere
27-07-18, 04:16 PM
She has an imagination and a mental illness, I am sure the world is her imaginative oyster. I'm surprised it actually made any sense at all :D

Yeah, I've never got why stuff happening outside of her presence is used as proof the last shot is fake. She could imagine anything she wanted.

Cheese Slices
27-07-18, 07:13 PM
How about this one : just right around when her life sucks the most, she gets a way out in which, while she is mentally ill, she has both her parents alive and together and gets to be a loved and cared for kid again. Too good to be true, you guys.

TimeTravellingBunny
27-07-18, 07:16 PM
- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, I've never got why stuff happening outside of her presence is used as proof the last shot is fake. She could imagine anything she wanted.

And apparently be unaware that she's imagining it.:blink:

The mental gymnastics in this thread are getting really impressive.

TriBel
27-07-18, 07:36 PM
Wouldn't it simply put Buffy in the position of "intradiegetic implied author (once removed)" :confused:. I've just made that up - she'd be the "author" who's also a character in her own fiction. I'm out of touch with metafiction.


How about this one : just right around when her life sucks the most, she gets a way out in which, while she is mentally ill, she has both her parents alive and together and gets to be a loved and cared for kid again. Too good to be true, you guys.

Cheese Slices

Hey - I watched Bobby Ewing come out of the shower - nothing surprises me. :D

Cheese Slices
27-07-18, 09:27 PM
Hey - I watched Bobby Ewing come out of the shower - nothing surprises me. :D

Well, you got me there. (I actually had to google the name because I'd completely forgotten who that bloke was, uncultured swine that I am).

bespangled
28-07-18, 02:56 AM
Yeah...including all the behaviour she had no clue was happening, like Angel visiting Spike and Dru right after losing his soul, Faith going over to the Mayor, Maggie's experiments with Adam, all of the Wishverse, Warren killung Katrina and then framing Buffy, etc...

To quote Oz, that makes the kind of sense that's not.

Isn't that what authors do all the time? They imagine the world, the characters, the interactions and the reactions. It actually could explain why Buffy's life lack the downtime of real life - the laundry, the cleaning, the hours we all have of dull stuff that wouldn't be included in a story. In Buffy's delusion she has created a world in peril, filled with events. I kinda liked the idea from the start - it could be an au in some other universe.

HardlyThere
28-07-18, 03:28 AM
- - - Updated - - -



And apparently be unaware that she's imagining it.:blink:

The mental gymnastics in this thread are getting really impressive.

Yeah, you're giving a real gold star performance. Authors, which is what Buffy would be in this case, create fictionalized accounts all the time.

TimeTravellingBunny
28-07-18, 11:55 AM
Isn't that what authors do all the time? They imagine the world, the characters, the interactions and the reactions. It actually could explain why Buffy's life lack the downtime of real life - the laundry, the cleaning, the hours we all have of dull stuff that wouldn't be included in a story. In Buffy's delusion she has created a world in peril, filled with events. I kinda liked the idea from the start - it could be an au in some other universe.

Uuuum... You are aware that Buffy is not an "author" - that she is convinced she actually is living through these events? So you think she can somehow be delusional and imagine all those events, while being unaware that she is imagining half of them?

What?! :err:


Yeah, you're giving a real gold star performance. Authors, which is what Buffy would be in this case, create fictionalized accounts all the time.

:roll::roll::roll:

At this point, I assume you're not being serious at all.

flow
28-07-18, 12:09 PM
So you think she can somehow be delusional and imagine all those events, while being unaware that she is imagining half of them?


No she can imagine all the events and at the same time imagine she dos not know about half the events.

flow

vampmogs
28-07-18, 12:54 PM
No she can imagine all the events and at the same time imagine she dos not know about half the events.


Pretty much. I don't see why it's that farfetched that if someone could imagine such an intrinsic and detailed delusion about themselves that they couldn't also imagine that the friends & foes they created to support their delusion didn't have conversations when she wasn't there.

That said, I can't really justify why Buffy would imagine all of Angel as well. Whilst I can justify her imaging conversations between people that are actually in her life, I can't make sense of why she'd imagine all of Angel's life in LA when the vast majority of his series doesn't impact her whatsoever. It's said that she created her life in Sunnydale as a comfort to her and I can't see how Angel's seperate story comforts her at all. Kate? Lorne? Fred? Gunn? They don't serve any purpose to Buffy.

TriBel
28-07-18, 01:03 PM
Uuuum... You are aware that Buffy is not an "author" - that she is convinced she actually is living through these events? So you think she can somehow be delusional and imagine all those events, while being unaware that she is imagining half of them?

What?! :err:



:roll::roll::roll:

At this point, I assume you're not being serious at all.

I've seen it done (or something similar) back in the day. I'm fairy sure it's a similar logic to Slaughterhouse 5 (ask Debbicles). Alasdair Gray's Lanark has a character who's almost - but not quite the author and a second character who could be the author's unconscious and an intervention by some one who claims to be the author, then an index of Plagiarisms acknowledging the the source of the original (including 4(?) references to books that hadn't been written at the time Lanark was published. There are some remarkable similarities between BtVS and Lanark. LOL! I'm waiting for the moment when they reveal the memories Harth's been accessing are, in fact, a DVD box-set of BtVS 1-7 and the full run of comics - including S12 - he found in Fray's library!

I've reached the stage of finding it all ludicrous.

TimeTravellingBunny
28-07-18, 01:26 PM
No she can imagine all the events and at the same time imagine she dos not know about half the events.

flow

There's stretching, and then there's stretching so thin it practically disappears.